This Doctor Who Rebrand Is a Mess
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- čas přidán 3. 01. 2024
- With Doctor Who's 2023 Christmas Special "The Church on Ruby Road", the show has softly rebooted itself, referring to Series 14 as Season 1. I have some thoughts about this.
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#DoctorWho #ChurchOnRubyRoad #Review - Krátké a kreslené filmy
15 and Ruby are based though
www.patreon.com/harbowholmes
It is a season 1 for new generation Fans
Doctor Who 2024 not longer for us deal with it
pretty immature way of thinking that a franchise can be "No longer" for someone, especially for such a large an loyal audience. @@User4739
You've been way to generous to RTD. His other shows have flopped and he came back because he was paid a boatload of cash. He's recycling old plots and he's cynically done the Bi Generation so he can bring Tennant back when Gatwa fails and he will do. He's just not the Dr
@User4739 who are these new fans ? And why would you deliberately alienate current fans. Doing that just makes you look a dick
So you’re saying they don’t watch EastEnders? 😉
I find it funny that new viewers will see S1 of a new show...but going into it they'll realize they missed out on a whole 13 seasons. Then after that they'll realize there's another 26 seasons hiding under that.
Wait until they find the books, comics, and audio dramas.
@@one_smol_duck their head might just implode
It's pretty dumb, then what happens after another 10 years,
and someone else fancies a reboot,
but calling it "Series 1" and "Season 1" are already taken in New Who? 🤔
Pretty sure audiences are used at this point to there being "new" tv shows with pre-existing characters and concepts, especially on Disney Plus.
And then, thousands of Big Finish audio, comics, novels...
I genuinely think the damage chibnal did to the show’s reputation after stuff like the timeless child forced execs into a corner and this was how they decided to go about getting out of it
@Outer-god-neco-arc Stfu, you don't even know what DW is
@TheBlackReaperKaneki Fantastic contribution to the discourse there bud 👍👍👍
@@TheBlackReaperKaneki what does that mean, genuinely wtf were you trying to say
@Outer-god-neco-arc Cry about it
@@catgirlproductions7792 cry about it
I think everything in series 10 was well explained for new viewers. Returning old baddies is not confusing if they are explained well which they were.
Series 10 only had Daleks, the Master/Missy, Ice Warriors and Cybermen anyway as returning.
@@adamstewart9052you say “only” as if they weren’t 4 of the most important and well known villains of the show
@@romulofigueroadiaz480 and the first doctor
I can't do a dude wearing feminine clothes calling himself the doctor....who 5? Oh nvamind😂😂
@@thebrokentable7554 Yeah well he was only in the final moments of the season finale and then the Christmas special and they said "baddies".
There's a very obvious gap between Classic and NuWho, they're essentially different shows. The only thing that's changed here is that it's now on Disney Plus outside the UK. Series 5 and 11 were no less of a "reboot".
Yeah. Soft reboots have been an integral part of Doctor Who since 1966.
Series 5 and 11 were refreshes. I think the problem being referred to here is largely more in the naming than intent. A good point is made in that franchises are getting scared of numbers, but that kinda makes things more confusing. Consider you're a first time doctor who viewer on Disney + and you watch an episode of season 1. Then you're kinda wondering how Ruby and the Doctor Met so you watch Special 4 on Disney+ and then you realize there's special 1 to 3 and naturally assume you should watch them first, except then you're greeted with plot points going back a decade, the toy maker, unit, and whatever bi-generation is.
It'd be easier for new viewers if specials 1 to 3 were just part of series 13 and series 14 started with the Christmas Special. The problem is this is a refresh treated like a soft reboot when the last era ended some months ago
@@vullord666to be fair, it would be hard to put season 14 on Disney+ while not having seasons 1-13 on there, leaving viewers to wonder how to watch the previous seasons and then have to get a Max subscription to watch them. And I use season because series refers to the whole show, not individual seasons. I’m American, so that’s the standard here
They are the same show in 1 continuous line. Why do you think there are 15 doctors and not 8 for the classic and 7 for the new show.
@@setherton9306 1966 wasn't really a soft reboot though. 1970 definitely was, as was arguably 1980.
I think jumping on points are a bit of a myth imo, like it’s a show with 60 years of backstory there needs to be callbacks and surprise appearances it’s generally about how the episode handles stuff like that, when the first doctor showed up they made a point to tell the audience who he was along with cheeky nods to those who know more about him.
Fully agree with you on this take. Sure do jumping on points need to exist? Sure, but most that like sci fi will be willing to watch seasons of a show to catch up, particularly in the streaming era we live in, so long as the prior seasons are interesting which by an large new Dr Who is good. I think the video is one of the best CZcams takes out there I have seen, sooo many content creators are seemingly trashing the specials and new doctor when I am of the opinion the specials were great, way better written then the Whittaker era, and is far more progressive is great ways that I think many are just being negative and acting reactionary.
There isn't 60 years of backstory. It's not a soap opera, plus it was off the air for over a decade.
@@somethingsomething7205 respectfully one of the latest episodes had a companion from the eighties, the daughter of a character from the 60s-70s, a villain and color flashbacks from the 60s, a companion from 2009 and four episodes ago we met the guardians of the edge with five past doctors. You can jump in at any point but there’s inevitable backstory, being off the air or episodic doesn’t make it free of story
@@USSEnterprise3 I agree, I think harbo is a little to down in the dumps for some of the review but stuff like the cinematography being a bit rubbish is valid and doesn’t take away from my own personal enjoyment, I’m really waiting for the next series for the pure hype
@@thebrokentable7554 Before RTD's continuity-heavy Nu-hu (which continuously contradicted itself), each DW serial stood on its own, much more like a series of movies, without any "backstory" necessary (apart from the loose continuity between Dalak stories after the introduction of Davros), after 26 seasons of this, it was off the air for the rest of the century. That's over "40 years of" DW as not even continuity-light.
Those "specials", which were light on the call-backs bc Disney demanded so, were only part of "season zero". Don't expect anything from the past (unless it is entirely retconned or cannibalised) to be appearing in season one. Think of it as another series 11.
Does it need a fresh start? Yes
To the extent that its happening? No
The show doesnt really need to start again from 0, it just needs a quick refresh. Like what we got when Matt started
Right? You don't need a reset ever again. Why the hell can't shows just go on?
But it basically like when Matt started? Except for calling it series 1. Actually, less so because they’ve already said characters we already know will appear in the next series, with Matt the only returning character was River.
Just let it go. Nu-hu has had nothing new to offer since it started.
@@somethingsomething7205 That’s why you’re here? 🧐
@@megamcgee I've never been a Nuvian.
I have never seen a show try so hard to shake off old fans and make new ones instead of appealing to those who may have left
And they keep failing gloriously.
When 13's era started, I asked a geeky coworker if she would watch Doctor Who. She said she just didn't have the time to watch 11 seasons. I tried to explain that you didn't have to start from the 1st series 1 but she didn't feel right starting that far in. Unless you've watched the show before, you wouldn't really get how each Doctor is a soft reboot. I've been wanting a full on reboot with a universal level change like the Time War since Capaldi's era.
This appears to be the magic era of Who, and I think that alone constitutes a rebrand. I think the tone change, the more musical theme, and other stylistic changes also send a signal that things have fundamentally changed. Psychologically, starting over in the numbering is going to make old fans more accepting and approving of those changes and new fans more likely to give it a shot.
Every drama programme nowadays is a serial. So people assume DW is one too. You should explain that DW is more like a sitcom. Every episode is a standalone.
"Series 1" was already half way in. By Doctor 13 there were 36 seasons of TV Doctor Who plus over 300 audio stories. Your friend needed to commit harder. Weak!!!!
All I see in the last paragraph is basically doctor who is dead. Disney got their grubby hands on it and will ruin it like they did everything else
Things run together so much for me that I usually just refer to the various eras based on the doctor and the companion. I don't mind soft reboots as there is a sort of FOMO if someone starts in the middle. Part of that is worsened by streaming where everything is laid out for you as opposed to you organically seeing part of an episode while flipping channels on the tv.
As someone who collects and archives media, this is a huge problem.
I've started seeing 'NeoWho' labelled as 'Doctor Who 2023' when it's not, it's 'Doctor Who 2005'.
It leads to mislabeling and general confusion. Imagine in the future when people try to look back for it and they're met with a strange mix of years.
You end up with duplicates or scuffed archives that don't have all of the content because it's mixed up. (see American Dad for the best example of this)
@@PanoptesDreamsI dropped off of American Dad quite a few years ago; what happened?
@@vinzo0913 When American Dad was dropped by Fox they went over to TBS.
This ended a season (I think 7 or 8) early, with only 3 episodes. Different 'official' sources label this and the next season either as one whole or as two different.
Currently American Dad is in it's 20th season, however some sources still refer to it as season 19.
This confuses automated software frequently. And trying to track down anything from season 8 onward CAN BE nightmarish.
A large part of the rebrand to "Season 1" is production based, with a new production company mostly doing the Making, and with Disney+ doing international distribution it's to avoid scaring off potential new viewers so they don't click on the show and see 13 seasons and not bother
exactly, for a lot of people will be a new beginning and probably are not gonna watch the old seasons and specially Jodie's era
i always feel bad for Jodie's era because all the issues were coming to a head as she got given the part which must have been rather burning out being given one of uk tv's biggest roles as said show imploded even tho she was clearly putting a lot of effort in.@@MarcosSantos-dj6lk
Why would anybody be scared off? The show has a sizable following in the us and here. More to the point, there are probably fans who started watching with Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi and they most likely weren't scared off because the episode count because every new doctor is a jumping on point for new fans. Restarting the numbering is just plain confusing.
@@BradLad56 probably the insane amount of lore to catch up on
@@Vileplume87 you don't need to know all the lore to watch it.
I just don’t understand how this will benefit the new Disney+ audience. If it was me, I’d still find myself curious to watch everything before it. It was the same for the 2005 reboot. At least that had a time gap between them
The 2005 Reboot & classic who is unavailable on Disney+(In the U.S.), the 2005 series is on Max and Classic Who is on Britbox.
@@johnatkinson1111 if they’re all available on Disney plus, why reset it, there really is no reason why they can’t be bothered to assume that people will watch through all the previous episodes that made the show have a reputation of one of the best sci-fi shows out there
Those who want to watch the "older" stuff can do so, but this gives a softer entry point for new folks.
The thing with the disney+ stuff, is you have to look at their target audience. Their desired target audience is the loud minority of woke liberals who can't stand seeing a normal show with actual meaning.
@@tjet34 I'm not sure what softer entry means here?
I really struggle with this idea of a jumping-on point, because there's pretty much always going to be stuff that you need explaining to you in any episode of any show if you aren't willing to just kinda go with it. Like, even if you go as far back as "Rose", there's stuff in that episode which will make *more* sense if you're aware of the Autons, the TARDIS, etc. already. But you can still pick that stuff up.
And honestly, I think that's true of almost every standalone Who episode. Sure, the viewer will have some questions, but they'll usually be answerable in, like, a couple of sentences, or which can be figured out later. Likewise, when the show refers back to things that happened in previous episodes, it usually does so in a way that isn't actually going to alienate anyone who didn't see them - not to the point that the episode won't be enjoyable.
e.g. if someone who hadn't seen the RTD era Master saw the season 10 reveal of John Simms, they're not going to get why it's important, but they *will* understand *that* it is important because, like, the show tells you. You won't have the same experience as someone who watched it from the start, but... you kinda knew that was going to be the case when you started watching at the end of season 10 for some reason.
I dunno, maybe I'm still in a scheduled TV mindset, but I feel like, if someone wants to start watching the show, they'd be better off just starting wherever and maybe doing a little googling afterwards. And also just getting a friend or an episode guide to explain stuff, rather than trying to find a point in the show where nothing confusing has happened yet, because that point is Never.
my first episode of dr. who was turn left and i was really confused XD
Rose works so well as a jumping-on point because it's told from Rose's perspective. She, like the audience, is someone unfamiliar with the Doctor.
@@Grimmlocked I love Turn Left but it's a *really* bad first episode.
I mean so is Ruby road@@alexpotts6520
@@alexpotts6520 Oh god, you're right. That's like the worst possible choice for first episode, except maybe Stolen Earth
Tooth And Claw being the fifth most watched (regular) episode of modern Doctor Who freaks me out
Its a solid episode but still surprising how it is one of the most watched episodes 😂
@@timetraveller07 you'd be surprised. My cousin thinks DW is shit but still mentions every now and again that he loved "the one with the werewolf". Tbf the werewolf was seriously impressive for 2006 British TV.
That is weird, but it is a solid episode
@@liamwilliams6651 definitely. I personally enjoy it on a rewatch. The scoring of that episode was FIRR
One of those episodes you forget about for not being very interesting, however it is quite solid. The wolf CGI is impressive for 2006 dr who and Queen Victoria was the best historical figure to appear on the show
I can see several reasons why they may have wanted to do this. First an foremost, its been almost 20 years since its been back, that can be intimidating and resetting the series count can make it seem more approachable for wider audiences.
Secondly, Russell brought the show back and was able to connect with large audiences. The show has had a rough few years and this may be a way to signal to lapsed fans that controversial decisions made by Chibnall wont be playing active roles going forward.
If you think TC is getting thrown under the rug, you are delusionnal, it was reference in 3 of the last 4 episodes, including Ncuti's first
@@arthemis1039 yes it was reference but what does that mean in a show full of Easter eggs and references? Doesn't mean they will involve it into storyline dynamics, or even if they did I think Davies would handle it much better.
I think he’s embracing what Chibnall did. Almost every episode since he returned has been discussing stuff from that era, including of course the Flux and how the Doctor feels about everything that happened, and has also brought up the Doctors insecurities about not knowing where he’s really from now. If anything, I’m half expecting Ncuti or whoever the next Doctor is to open up that pocket watch that’s in the Tardis.
I think He's definitely embracing chibnalls.. interesting decisions but going about them in a more minor and nuanced way with emotional depth rather than the 2d and more dramatic take chibnall took
@SteveyTheEx-EeveeNot sure how you reached that conclusion, none of those comments imply that perspective.
I would bet money that literally the only reason they’re calling it season 1 is so Disney doesn’t have a bunch of new viewers complaining about why they have a show that starts at season 14. Mind you, they’ll still have all us old viewers complaining about not having the rest of NuWho on there, so I’m not sure what they’re hoping to accomplish here.
When Tom Stoppard's play 'The Madness of George III' was made into a film, they changed the title to 'The Madness of King George', fearing the numbers in the US would be down because people would think they'd missed the first two.
If that story is the least bit true, I can see exactly why Disney wanted to start at one.
Same is true for some books. E. G. Harry Potter and the philosopher's Stone became Harry Potter and the sorcerers Stone. Because they Figured an American audience would find philosopher's Stone a boring title
Appeaseing the ignorant.
The Madness of King George story is true but it was written by Alan Bennett, not Tom Stoppard.
That's fucking embarrassing. I hate that decision-makers think their population are too stupid to follow along with stuff like that. Imagine thinking a King's number means previous movies not their title...
@@ajax4887hopefully you're not American, because I'll say that, at least in this instance, they were right 😁 like Einstein said, there's no limit to human stupidity (and having known some Americans, and my own countrymen for several decades now, that's a truly solid statement).
Fans don't "check out" because they have to go back and watch awesome episodes (or because of low money).. they check out because of poor story writing (and possibly poor acting).
When the writers get their heads out of their *sses then the fans will return.
I think Bi-Generation was a big mistake. It makes it so much harder to see 15 as the new Doctor, it’s instead as if he’s just *another* Doctor. Like, a different person. There’s no emotional weight to it as all. If they were gonna do it, they should have had the two of them merge back together at the end of the episode or something.
14 isn't the "real" doctor though. He's basically a human who transfers all of his memories to 15 when he dies.
who knows, they might still merge at some point in the future
Anyone think it’s weird that thanks to this bi-generation technically there are 3 David tennant shaped Doctors floating round the universe (in one dimension or another)! One wasn’t enough, apparently! 😂
I feel like they could have fixed this by saying all the regeneration energy went into 15 and 14 is mortal now, so he has to be more careful / can’t go out battling aliens constantly.
Metacrisis was also a more palatable option. Let's be honest: bi-generation is just meant to be a w o k e addition for the Rainbow brigade to fawn over. Nothing more, nothing less.
Honestly, I would focus on plans for yourself. There is no "new audience" to bring in, certainly not in any significant numbers. New Who has been around for 18 years. Gen Z has grown up with it. They are either already fans or they aren't. They can only lose fans, and that oddly seems to be their goal for some reason. There is no magic "modern audience" to replace the millions that have already left and the last couple million that will give up on it now.
So, there has been a bit of a reprieve by Disney, but I would be practical and not optimistic. Disney is already in bad shape. They will cut and run (or worse) without the numbers. Doctor Who is already dead, they just haven't pulled the plug yet. Worry less about trying to see the little bits of good you can find in what is to come and more about what would be better for you to be producing and getting prepared for that. Good luck to you. RIP Doctor Who, you'll be missed.
The thing is it should be so easy to put a new fresh start in, write the first season through the eyes of a new companion rather then the doctor…. Then you can have the doctor pull out the sonic screwdriver, all of us veteran viewers are like “oo the new sonic”, the nee viewers will be like “what the hell is that?” And a new companion would ask the same… therefore just for one season, write it from their perspective…. Its what worked with rose, its also what worked in church on ruby road. You could technically get a new starting point after each companion leaves if needed (but that would be excessive as fuck!)
Its interesting how people perceive that you need to know background already and "jump on board" at a reboot. One of my ex girlfriends thought she hated Doctor Who but watched The Davros two parter with Capaldi and was completely hooked and started watching from there. A friend of mine started watching at Flux and was hooked right in. I sometimes think writers in particular don't credit audiences with the intelligence and processing ability most of us actually do have. I agree that this reboot is unnecessary and potentially more confusing than not doing so but I guess I do get it from House of Mouse perspective. I also think though that for a show with such a rich history many people worry too much about using and pushing that rather thinking it is a negative for new viewers, In fact both my above mentioned friends and other people I know love the fact that characters can pop up and already have hugely fleshed out back stories. I know that David Tennant's first tenure on New Who was the most popular time of New Who and possibly the easiest to attract new viewers but was it the best for attracting new long term viewers or were they highly transient to the show such as the army of Tennant fancying female fans who seemed to leave as soon as he did? It seems that new viewers from say Moffat's time are less yes but are they more loyal? It's an interesting debate and thank you for raising lots of interesting questions and thoughts
I started watching this TV show at The girl in the fireplace. That was the first episode I saw from Doctor Who. After that episode I was hooked right in and started watching from there. So yeah, not always need to know the background to understand what is going on.
@@tvguy61 nah, it is not that bad. It was different, yes. But bad? Nope nope nope. Most of the problems were really the results of two problems:
1. Lack of money and marketing resources.
2. Covid.
Chibnall had to rewrite the story because of that and we don't really know his original idea. So yeah...
That's the point. If the show's good, you can enjoy it no matter where you start. All this bending over backwards to appease some imaginary viewer is exhausting.
Most people who are interested in Doctor Who will find their way to it with or without this sort of soft reboot. Studios know that too. That doesn't change the fact that there exist a significant amount of people who need an extra push to get there, and hearing "hey they're doing a sort of fresh start for the show, so it's a great place to jump in" will serve as that extra push for them.
chriswagg1354
If your enjoying this agenda pushed perversion of Dr Them/They I’m calling bullshit of you actually having a girlfriend.
Capaldi was amazing 🎉😍
It's not Neo Who. It's Disney Who.
It Is Disney Who, and I annoyingly agree with you, *Becuase I have to watch this way* Disney is apart of the creation and Everyone not in the UK has to watch on Disney+!!!!
@marionbaggins or you could just not watch it like me. I struggled through chibnal who. Then watched the three specials hoping the show would turn a corner. But it hasn't. So I stopped watching it. The show is going to die next year.
Doctor Who Special 1 had a very strange Name in german Disney+. They translated Special to "besonderes" which normally no one does. That would have been as if it was called "Doctor Who - Particular 1" in english
Honestly, even as someone who is rather optimistic about the new series - I honestly think that Bigeneration was a mistake.
Normally, with regeneration/new Doctor stories, those all have a sense of closure for the prior doctor's tenure, as, well, that Doctor is gone, and their new self is the doctor now.
But, with the bigeneration - it's caused an unfortunate David Tennant-shaped spectre to loom over Ncuti's era. People are already all over the comments saying they cant wait for Ncuti to fail so David can return (hell no) - and honestly, if they had the stones to do a 'normal' regeneration, this wouldn't have happened. And hell, it would have been a much more dramatic way of introducing the 15th doctor.
Imagine how much more brutal it would have been if 14 actually got regenerated mid-episode. And then how it would instantly introduce 15 straight out of the frying pan, into the fire, standing alone between the Toymaker and the universe.
Or, hell, just saying that Bigeneration causes the old body to fade away after a couple of weeks or something. Y'know, setting a time limit on how long 14 could realistically stick around for (cue montage of 14 having a lovely time in retirement before we see 14 fade away). Y'know, _something_ to erase the spectre of David Tennant, and ensure that everyone has to accept that Ncuti Gatwa _is_ the Doctor.
I love this comment more than I can explain.
it just feels like there's this loose end dangling that hasn't been tied up, and i hate how it validates the people who stopped watching when tennant regenerated the first time; the doctor must always regenerate and leave the old body behind, i dont see what makes him so special
i feel like if the whole bigeneration thing isn't really expanded upon in the season 1 UNIT episode, then its probably deliberately ambiguous so people can make their own endings up (14 becomes 15, 14 become curator, 14 can no longer regenerate, etc.) so older viewers who don't want to watch the new show get some closure
@@thearchivist5599It's not 10 that's special, in the world of the show. It's Donna.
Personally, I like that Donna gets an actual happy ending as thanks for being the best companion New Who ever had. And that happy ending happens to include this post-War version of the Doctor being basically forced into retirement and therapy. And I love that the joke is this is literally the only way to get the Doctor to accept he should slow down, have a life, and get help: being forcibly confronted with his older, happier, actualized self.
Some men will do anything to avoid going to therapy... Unless it threatens causality. Solid joke.
@@jimsmowingofficial I mean, it's just a bad idea to leave something that fundamentally changes our understanding of the show's mechanics ambiguous
Yup, it’s actually Season 40.
I don’t personally think it matters all that much, and I could see how it would be weird to have the only season on Disney be the 14th one.
I Agree, For the Rest of the World from the 60th will be only pieces of DW on Disney!!!
What if every new doctor is season 1 and then they keep pushing the previous doctor to New Who? For example when Ncuti leaves, say his seasons 1-3 become seasons 14-16, etc.?
Also, there is no way I am going to accept that Tennant was 14. He was Ten-again. Ncuti should be 14. Enough with this nonsense.
I am very suprised to hear Russell T Davis was a Dr Who fan. He seems like he hates the show now, along with it's fans. He doesn't even seem to like Sci Fi anymore.
Dr Who was always a sci-fi/fantasy show.
Every new companion is basically a 'jump on point' for newcomers to Who, cause all the important stuff like Timelords, Tardis and Regeneration are gonna be explained to them as the new companion also learns of it.
That said I can see a reason behind the 'Soft Reboot'.
-Basically there is a massive difference between Classic Who and New Who. The latter has the shadow of the Time War hanging over the Doctor for the majority of it. However that's been resolved for a while now. This 'soft reboot' in my eyes may be an 'excuse' to 'move on' from the Shadow of The Time War,
Classic Who -> Time War Who(Previously New Who) -> Neo Who(New, New Who).
-It's how I'm organising it in my mind.
--Throw in the more 'mystism' that Neo Who is supposed to have, what with the Doctor imposing Superstition at the Edge of the Universe and maybe inviting in Forces that have long since been bannished from the Universe(Magic, Legends, Myths.) Resulting in a fundemental difference from the past two segments of the show, which explained everything as being a science/technology based.(Though most of that is a headcanony way to organise it in my head. Gonna have to wait and see how it turns out.).
I think it's good to keep trying to anchor starting points for new fans every now and then, and while 15's series has BARELY begun, I'm not sure it really deserves to be considered an entirely new era of Doctor who like NuWho was to Classic. It just feels too close to what came before, while Classic/NuWho have years a part from each other and significant cultural changes. But I guess only time will tell.
Nice to see you here, Kuro
I really dont see the point, the starting point isnt vanishing over time, season 1 of nuwho is still a perfectly fine starting point. Pre-streaming I can understand the importance, but since we can watch any episode whenever we want, I dont get it.
@@ZeallustImmortal I've heard that outside of the UK, they aren't going to add previous seasons/series to Disney Plus, starting from Ncuti's era. So it does kind of pave the starting point, for newcomers
@@ShadeKill "Look guys, we solved the problem that we invented"
@@ShadeKill Disney should have figured out a way to get the rights to the first 13 seasons of Doctor Who before forcing a relaunch.
Obviously things moved so quickly from 2021-2022 that they just negotiated a deal to include nothing from before the 60th with no rush as to when to get the rest of the show.
Bringing David Tennent back wasn't a "big" success. It was a slight improvement leading ultimately to a disappointment.
I always thought Twice Upon a Time would have been a fantastic end to new who considering the Capaldi era was the peak of New Who and brought everything nicely together. 12 being the Doctor we were promised by River way back in series 4. Just have the TARDIS take the Doctor to Gallifrey to "rest" (so they can be revived later). Then take 5 or so years to figure out what the next era of Doctor Who should look like.
I'm of the opinion that a whole rebrand without missing a beat just makes it harder to follow. I stopped after Series 12 and came back so confused with "flux" (still don't know if that's series 13) and the specials. I can't imagine someone starting season one and then wanting to go watch special 4 and then wanting to watch special 1 to 3 and then going back to find the impenetrable fan service beast Power of the Doctor was. That's another thing. Franchises these days can't be afraid of numbers when they shove as many cameos and references into each entry as they can. It's so hard to follow and avoid FOMO just watching TV which sucks. At this point I might as well just get into the Warhammer 40k universe.
On another note, it's absolutely insane how hard Chibnall dropped the ball. Series 11 was setup for success with the most fresh premise and promises like no old monsters. It got a lot of attention with Jodie as the first female doctor and all the success of new who I had no idea the first episode drew in that many viewers. It's insane how the bad writing tanked the show that bad.
For me Twice uopn the time was the last episode I watched because Netflix didn't get/buy the rights for the Jodies serieses. So for me it is a bit what you wrote, they ended with Capaldi (even tho it wasn't on Gallifrey) and started with last years specials.
But suddenly the Doctor is not a Timelord any more?
Apparently among Chibnall's requirements for writers was that they shouldn't have any previous knowledge of Dr Who so that they could come in with a "fresh take". Another requirement was that they should be from a "diverse" background. He also wanted to push political activism.
So no knowledge of the series, drawing from a small pool of talent, and a desire to push politics. Politics is always divisive - there are always people who will agree with you, and people who will disagree with you. That all combined to produce bad, agenda laden writing, which turned people off massively.
And yet it was such a brilliant opportunity to do something fresh. The idea of a female Dr had even been talked about when the ratings for Classic Who were going down, so it isn't like it is a revolutionary new idea. With good scripts that were focused on telling a good story rather than on pushing an agenda, it could have been a brilliant success. So yes, it really is "insane how hard Chibnall dropped the ball".
Would have been the best ending for the show (for a while). Full circle. Capaldi should have found out that hartnells incarnation couldn’t find the ability to regenerate , Capaldi having to pass on his remaining regenerations in order for the first Doctor to regenerate. Capaldi returns to the tardis and collapses , the tardis drifts off into space and a spark of energy emerges , then it ends. Leaving people not knowing if he changed or not
I’ve been pretending twice upon a time was the end of Doctor Who since series 11. Hoping the next season will be great so I can stop worrying about the show dropping the ball again.
For licensing reasons they need a new way of naming convention. The real rebranding problem is this shit isn't Doctor Who.
Why isn't it Doctor Who?
it's 16 years between 1989 and 2005 not 26 as you said
No era will beat watching Sarah Jane smith adventures as a kid and the doctor randomly popping up in different episodes and torchwood and then it just went down hill
This is a great video! I also agree that 12 was my favorite era/doctor, and I actually started watching doctor who with series 7b. My dad was a big fan and filled in some lore for me. I went back and watched the rest of nuwho after but 12 is still my fav (followed by 10)
my first episode was nightmare in silver, so I also startet with 7b. I watched that episode and the name of the doctor with the impossible girl reveal and I was so confused. Then I skipped the day of the doctor and started watching series 8-12 and after that I finally watched series 1-7
Good video! I do agree with you. I think calling Series 14, Season 1 is confusing because we already have a Season 1 in the classic series and that will be confusing.
It’s going to get even more confusing as I remember reading a episode synopsis around Christmas times that had a brief description of each episode and one of them mentioned a politician who has modelled himself after Harold Saxon, which if it’s not explained well if going to leave a lot of people confused if they have never watched the season 3 final.
Another branding tactic that could’ve happened is subtitling. Like Star Trek: The Original Series / Deep Space 9 / Voyager / Enterprise;
we could have had Doctor Who: The Classic Series / Nu Era / NewNu Era with more fitting names. The Nu Era could be something about After the Time War or The Last Time Lord (like ATLA), cause we really go a full circle from 9’s grief and self-hatred, to 11 saving Gallifrey, to 13 and Spy Master maybe definitively wrapping up this megaplot. And if this “refresh” has a new thematic arc (which I hope it has) then that could be the name.
5:56 really appreciate that you included Peter Cushing. Haven't seen the movie myself, but I love the strange little oddity that is that movie
There are 2 Peter Cushing movies. Well worth seeing.
@@LisaLisa-bf1ep with the second one even featuring Bernard Cribbins (Wilf's actor) playing a companion!
@@TenshiCat oh yes, I'd forgotten about that 🙂
I do like the idea of more fantasy elements witch is something I think torchwood went into a bit,also anyone else think it's mad that children of earth takes place in the same universe as love and monsters and the sarah jane adventures and the church on ruby road
After the Christmas Special this year, I started back with New Who rewatch of Series 1 (Ninth Doctor), but also at Season 1 (First Doctor). After learning a bit about Classic Who, I'm recognizing Easter eggs referring to it in Series 1 & 2, like when the Tenth Doctor tells Queen Victoria his name is Doctor James McCrimmon. But I'm with Harbo; what Disney is calling Season 1 is Series 14 to me.
The ‘name instead of a number’ thing used to be the standard. The thin man, then return of the thin man, then the thin man gets a haircut or whatever. I think it wasn’t until The Godfather part 2 or Jaws 2 introduced the numbering thing
Honestly this feels like they had to set off a bomb to break out of the corner chibnal built and now we're in the transition period where they're trying to stick pieces back together, I'm willing to wait it out and give the new series the benefit of the doubt for now, looking forward to the new series
I don't mind it, as long as it dosent become a theme with every new showruner rebooting the show.
I too comment before watching the video
can't wait for new neo next gen who deluxe remastered definitive edition!
I think a better way to soft reboot the series would be to do effectively a prequel. The first doctor is shown as an old man with his own granddaughter, implying he had already had a lifetime’s worth of story before we even see him initially on screen. Why not go back to the first doctor’s youth, before he was an old man before he had a daughter let alone a granddaughter! Show him discovering new things as a new person, that way he’s a POV for the audience as much as a new companion is…he’ll show him taking the TARDIS for the first time!
I agree that another soft reboot wasn't necessary. I can understand the fantasy atc because of the The Celestial Toymaker, but starting over with Season 1 is ridiculous. You're probably right that Disney had a big hand in that because they don't own the rights to the rest of Doctor Who. It's good they don't.
It's not just the Toymaker's influence rewriting the universe. That's the crunchy in-world explanation, but the arguably bigger difference is the Doctor having actually processed his guilt over the Time War. Bigeneration was a clever way to force the Doctor into going to therapy, by confronting him with an older version of himself who already completed a DBT program.
By making 15 the new Season 1, you neatly encapsulate the entire Time War saga in one long stretch. Unprocessed guilt and trauma over the Time War defined the Doctor's character since "Season 1", which was of course not the first season. Now that we are following a Doctor who has processed all that with a support group, a new Season 1 honestly makes sense. New universe, new rules, truly new Doctor, new era.
When it's 40 years from now and there have been five separate distinct eras of Doctor Who comprising dozens and dozens of seasons, this argument will seem very silly
It makes sense because its supposed to eb a different kind of doctor. Writing the war torn doctor is out of style now, and really its lived too long. Need a new doctor mindset. completely as 13 was all over the shop thanks to inconsistent writing
@@pantslesswrock
How can 15 be older when he was a bigeneration?
@@help4343 1) Because he said so, and DW tends to run on "Because The Doctor Said So" rules. 2) 15's personality is explicitly a result of 14 actually taking time to settle down and process his mountain of unprocessed Time War baggage, while truly getting to experience growing old on Earth.
The Doctor is a science experiment living beyond the capacity of what his brain usually stores before being wiped, and also an Elder God just rewrote the rules of spacetime. Slightly out-of-order therapy honestly makes sense.
My first thoughts were definitely of the "pure marketing" variety.
Not unlike the 'line-wide reboot' claims of 'the new 52'
The start of Matt Smith's run was also effectively a reboot.
As was Jodie Whittaker's
As was every power ranger series after 'lost galaxy' (should have been 'in space' but real life happened)
There may be some minor callbacks and likely a standalone crossover, and lets be honest, there's no way these will be given up entirely.
But
- the doctor,
- the companion(s)
- the closest thing the show has to a main storyline
- and any tone likely derived from the above
have always been cycled through
and this is not the first time all shifts happen at the same time.... by design.
having now seen this video: yup
Loved Tennant way back when but damn the Specials didn't work for me🤦♀️
I don’t know if it’s relevant but when the BBC rebooted Waterloo Road they initially marketed it as a reboot, and released the new series as ‘series 1’. It was only after the series had aired that they rebranded it again as series 11 and reunited the ‘two’ shows on iPlayer.
It’s as if they wanted to draw new viewers in, and once they’d got them, they pushed them towards the previous series by placing the new episodes with them on iPlayer.
The only issue with that would be that NuWho isn’t on Disney+. In fact, I’m not sure there was any official confirmation that 2024 would see Season 1 until after we had seen confirmation that Disney+ wouldn’t get NuWho.
Yea, and next you're going to tell me that Windows doesn't have 11 releases nor does Fedora have 38.
I like to separate the shows as:
• Doctor Who (1963-1989, 1996)
• Good Newbie Who (2005-2017)
• Bad Newbie Who (2018-2022)
• Rebrand Who (2023-)
New gets old very quickly. To ordinary viewers it's just Doctor Who in a Saturday night . It's just plain old Dr Who. New is to come.
Right, it should be called what it really is all along: Season 40
*claps* Thank You!!!
You're technically correct which is the best kind of correct!
First we learn the Doctor is some divine figure responsible for the Time Lord race, and then he splits in two. What an age we live in
Well actually, we saw 8th doctor regenerate into the war doctor, and than 8 years later, we saw the war doctor regenerate into the 9th doctor
Initially hated this but have grown to be okay with it because Ncuti's first episode really felt like a fresh start
Give your head a wobble you lunatic !!!!
It was a really good first episode. I liked that we were able to have just a solid who episode. I don't know what it is but the past 3 specials it feels like someone just keeps messing with the script before they go film but didn't feel that with this episode. Can't wait to see what his run will do.
Capaldi is my favorite but all four were good
If it had been a few years, fine, but there's no way I'm calling it "Season 1" when there's not even been more than 2 years between the two eras.
I laughed when you said it’s season 14 for you, as you aren’t calling it season 1.
To me it’s season 30 For the same reason!! (I’m starting from 1963!!!)
you mean Season 40? :P
@@friendlyotaku9525 I did actually lol bloody thumb too big for my phone!
At least Season and Series are different words
Well, we actually got 2 reboots before, when 11th showed up and when the last Capaldi series started literally with a Pilot.
3, actually, Chibnall tried a reboot with Series 11.
Don't forget 8 and 9 were both reboots
@@MrSukram777 i ignore Chibnall time, even if its canon now. Barely watched anything, and i think i never will.
Yes, it is an interesting time, a very good video - I think it’s just marketing because they lost a lot of global exposure over the last few years and now that the mouse has got an involvement they decided to call it season one. (I’ve been a fan since I was nine years old in 1963!)
If they didn't call The Church on Ruby Road Special 4 it would definitely attract a larger viewing audience.
I have a cynical take. It's about insurance.
Disney is developing a new season of the netflix Daredevil TV show. It, too, is being branded as a new series "Daredevil : Born Again."
From what I understand, Disney (and maybe all studios?) don't pay for crew benefits until a series hits its third season.
So by "rebooting" with a new season one, they get out of paying benefits.
Or at least, that's how it goes in the US. I know y'all have a different healthcare set up than we do, so maybe that's less of an issue.
Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are other dividends and payouts that would be higher if this was produced as season 15(?).
people rarely ever have medical insurance here, and not through an employer unless you're working some insanely dangerous job where you're definitely going to develop cancer or smth lol. it might be something about employer pension contributions, but I don't know how those work in TV. I would imagine they're paid by the actual production studios for crew, rather than Disney or the BBC though
Davies coming back just reminded me of a lot of the weird, campy stuff and dialogue in the Tennant era I was never a huge fan of... not to mention the set designs that make everything look all plasticy like it's all toys.
The whole "season 1" debacle tells me that none of the execs at Disney Television understand how fandom works as it pertains to shows on streaming platforms, which is ironic considering about a decade ago, Nu and Classic Who were on Hulu in the US. Netflix itself was notorious for breaking up long running shows into separate products on its platform (e.g. Power Rangers), or skewing the "season" listing toward production number as opposed to the true season and/or episode numbering.
If the fans say it's series 14, it's series 14; Disney and BBC be damned.
what happen to 14(david)'s doctor? Is it the end for that doctor's story after the regenaration? is that why this one called season 1?
You’re closest to thinking what I’m thinking. I do wonder whether since Ncuti became the focus of the series, and seeing as it’s got goblins, singing, nightclub dancing, and more Fantasy stuff to come, too, this offshoot of the show termed S01 may turn out to be a spin-off show? And if and when the story continues where it left off with Tennant, that might be the original series then continuing. Whilst the one we are talking about now is truly a reboot and a separate ‘run’.
probably yeah, since that doctor is still alive, and still have regenerations, right?@@THIRV
@@Duablast this is it mate. Just a theory but it might explain why S01 when it’s in a way a new show. And as you say the original Lineage of the Doctor may get reopened at a later date with its own regenerations which ultimately end with Tom as The Curator. Cheers.
RTD's Series 1 was a soft reboot as was Moffat's Series 5. Chibnall did a hard reboot but played it both ways saying that what came before happened but was also all a lie. RTD is playing the middle ground to combine the two showing that the timelines have been changed due in part to the Toymaker but there's probably more going on.
Chibnall didn't do a hard reboot, it was still a soft reboot as the continuity was still there and past events were referenced and characters even came back
I don't think the xmas special was a good start, but it's early days. Though moving forward with the series, I'll regularly be thinking; when is David Tennant's Doctor going to come back, and it really shouldn't be that way.
Yup almost like how they already are finishin wrapping up 'season 2' filming..now theyre sit back,see how season 1 goes,if its dropping then they kept David on,again.....as safe insurance point,and if season 2 is doing terrible they are gonna quickly come up with something to bring him back around!!if they really think thats gonna work,after all the 60th did,UNDOING shit..WHY??alot of ppl dont even like how David came back,14th or not..
If hes gonna be a Dr on earth bound stories (repeat 3rd/unit stories)🤦♂️
Then maybe Davids in the spin-offs and comes full circle into OR end of season 2,ok..fine i guess?? Who knows(no pun intended,seriously) what RTD is up to lol!! And mavity is still being said in episodes,so there will be a point about that incident, again, and go back to FIX that point in time..they wouldn't just be saying it still for shits and giggles..we shall see..😑✌️🍻
The CRAP with Donna wasn't a good start.
@@nielgregory108 I never liked donna. like her less now.
the christmas special may be a good intro to rtd2, we don't know yet, but it's an awful intro to the rest of the show imo. The tone and vibes are just too different, it barely feels like doctor who
@@steve-0493 RTD has said he isn't bringing back Tennant anytime soon as it's the age of Ncuti now!
I dont think its alienating as you think with Ncuti with the recent special is a new reboot and i do think its quite clean. While the 60th Anniversary showings are a prologue to his run but id actually argue they arent necessary for new fans to jump on. With Ncuti's run barely beginning i think its good to jump on with ''The Church on Ruby Road'' and it becoming Series 1 again allows new fans to watch this new series as their first, not having to know everything that came beforehand and i think it works for new fans.
With the old fans we know a lot about Doctor Who anyway so it doesnt affect us either way. Easing New Fans in the way they choose to do and giving them options is never a bad thing. This is another option being presented and is no different to when it came back in 2005 and you being against it being called Series 1 again is really strange since when it came back that was Series 1 despite there being a Series 1 from Classic Who so by that logic it should be called Series 27 overall. Also the Whoniverse logo that plays at the beginning doesnt impact anything since you literally dont have to watch everything they are optional series like Torchwood, Sarah Jane Adventures, Class that dont add anything and you arent missing much from it.
Disney to me feels like its not had that much of a impact thus far on Doctor Who (with the only thing ive heard is the snowman scene being a request to get the Doctor doing something a little more early in the episode which i think was a good change). I do think fans are overreacting atm and maybe we just need to chill out.
Chilling out doesn't drive clicks and views though...
@@ADD30100 no it doesn't but its so exhausting to see a lot of negativity when it's things that aren't intended for a old audience but rather welcoming in a new one. It just seems a little gatekeepy
@@Venemofthe888 "It just seems a little gatekeepy" Good, You Tourist need to stay the hell out. Look at the garbage that you loonies are pushing.
I use the folders
Classic who(obvious)
Modern who(2005-2022)
New who(2023-????)
That way alphabetically they are in the correct order.
I prefer Revival Who (2005-2022)
Wtf is that new sonic "screwdriver" lmao
Ngl I think Calpardi will be my last Doctor, especially since Disney took over the rights everywhere but the UK.. so to the show, I will miss you
So, if the classic series has seasons, and the modern series has series’s (apostrophe because there isn’t a plural for series), what is the new series going to have?
Chapters?
series
They all have seasons doctor who is a series
Atrocities?
No fans 😂😂
The whole Jumping on Point assumes people can't imagine anything from the available data. This leads to ridiculous backstory like the Star Wars prequels. Who is this Empire chasing the Princess? How does a recluse on a desert planet tie into her history? Etc.
I heard that moffatt also wrote a few of the script as well before he took over.
i see a lot of random negativity from you, about things that barely even matter. a doctor who reboot? wow it’s only gotten like FIVE of those already!!! come off it
I got into the show from the 60th specials. I watched Star Beast and enjoyed it so went back and watch previous episodes. I do think overall the reboot does make sense, the show seems to be going in a new direction.
The church on ruby road had a different feel to other Who. I’m very excited for the new season, Ncuti and Millie are fantastic young actors with great chemistry on screen. My only complaint is making us wait 5 months for the new series when the teaser gives a lot away about themes of episodes ect.
i now wish i could come back to the show having never seen the old stuff so i’m not as attached i feel like i’m grieving if it goes in the direction i think ahahah
@@blueberrycranberrycherryThere’s no point ‘grieving’ the ‘old’ Who, it’s still available to watch. I think a lot of fans need to move on from the Tennent era ect, they don’t seem to be giving Ncuti a fair shot. Viewership for the next series will be huge so hopefully the fans give it a fair chance but many seem to have already made up their mind.
@@DJ-iq5xp it is, and i will rewatch countless times, but it’s sad we likely won’t get anything new that has the same vibe as 10 years ago. i’ll still probs watch all the new stuff and hope i get proven wrong/be pleasantly surprised
@@DJ-iq5xp i just wished they’d made a new show, if they really want to embrace fantasy why do it on one of the most prolific sci fi shows ever. heck i love fantasy some nice 70s/80’s puppetry n shit fuck yeah but it isn’t doctor who
13:23 What website is this?
i agree, but we should go further. the christopher eccleston season should be renamed to series 27, and this new disney plus season should be called series 40
The show has way bigger problems than branding its season numbers these days.
The only positive thing about modern Doctor Who is that a certain % of viewers will seek out and discover Classic Dr Who, which created by people with actual talent.
It makes a bit more sense if you tie in referring to it as Season 1 with RTD saying it is now leaning more towards fantasy rather than sci-fi. Effectively a new show with only really the very basic ties to the old one, which was more sci-fi leaning.
I think it needed a soft reboot and after the 60th was the perfect time to do it. The show needed new life.
Not sure about the jumping on thing. My earliest memory was watching the sea devil's walking out of the sea back in Pertwee days. With modern day technology if I were going to watch a long running show for the first time I would do some research first. Interesting you should say Capaldi is your favourite era. I was brought up on Tom and Lis but without doubt the Capaldi/Coleman double act is easily my favourite. I have told the amazing Jenna Coleman as much.
2023's first video was Capaldi's era beginning, now 2024 is Gatwa's era
We got Classic Who and NuWho.
This new era we’re in, where Disney owns Doctor who, should be called…
WhoDis
cuz this is not the Doctor who we knew and loved.
the fuck do you mean whats the problem with him. Every doctor isn't "the doctor who we knew and loved" thats the entire point of regeneration.
@@clostridiumtetani9947imagine getting that pressed over a joke
Yeah, it's unnecessary and weird. You pointed out Mel and Kate Steward being there, and that no time has passed between Tennant II and Gatwa. And a lot of the spin offs are rumored to include older characters and stories -- I mean, why else would most of us watch them? In the end, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm excited for this coming season and Ncuti's Doctor, no matter what you call them!
'My first video of 2024.'
The Video Harbo Wholmes Forgot:
The season one rebrand would have made sense if Disney was going to market it as a new series, but they called the Christmas special “special number 4” on Disney Plus instead of “episode 1” so they’ve already stuffed it up. Baffling.
Honestly aside from River song series 5 was a bigger soft reboot than Nchutis doctor
Did you also know that simply if there's not a showrunner to replace the leaving one, the show would end?
Chibnall didn't expect to stay for that long and only agreed to leave once Davies took up the mantle which shows that there was no one else to take it but have a previous one do it again.
If series 1 is series 14 which is also season 40, and Tennant is Doctor 10 and also Doctor 14 (who is actually Doctor 16), which makes Gatwa Doctor 15 (and also Doctor 17), what happens if Tennant's Doctor 14 (who is actually Doctor 16) regenerates again?
15a or 17a, depending on how you count.
Even comic books have gone through soft-ish reboots or renamed a new set of comics in the main series as issue 1, even though technically it is issue nine hundred and something since it is still part of the original run.
Your videos are progressively inching towards the pitfall of video essayists where you just focus on the bad for more clicks and engagement. "The rebrand is a MESS" no it's just a soft reboot. "Wild Blue Yonder is a MESS", "OVERHYPED", "DID IT FAIL?"
Very disappointing to see
By doing that, he is pulling in an audience that is harmful to the who fanbase. I do value his opinions though, and this is not the first time he has had hot takes on who.
I just think it comes as soft reboot whenever a new show writer comes into reign. All three show writers soft rebooted when they took over and RTD is no different. If a show like Doctor who continues to go on for nearly ever they need a soft reboot every so often. It doesn't take away from the past but just allows a clean slate and new stories to be told for especially now with Disney plus a whole new audience
Found this debate very interesting! Just one small thing; I think you said it’s a 26yr gap from 1989 to 2005 (excluding 1996 movie). It’s 16 years 😊
I really loved Doctor who from Rose to Clara ❤️. I was touched by the emotions that was bringing Season 1 to Season 7. However, I felt like the music, the atmosphere changed since season 8 and the new companions and their relation with the Doctor don't give me what I felt before :/ (my point of view aha)
I had long ago understood that Dr. Whos were in different realities and have no problem with another reboot.
I do take umbrage with an Instagram advert telling me "The Doctor's gone goblin mode!" though. They crossed a line.