Subaru EJ25 Valve Adjust
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- My valves lash needed to be checked and adjusted. I was a little nervous going where I hadn't gone before, but it wasn't that hard. Just measure carefully and write everything down. At the 100k mark the intakes were still within spec. Most of the exhaust were tight and one was really tight. I'm glad I spent the time to check them.
Best YT video on EJ25 valve adjustment. Good job man!
Those oil grooves you mentioned in the cam retainer is to let the ENGINE. Oil bleed back to the crack case so it doesn’t blow the cam seal out. If those grooves where not there the oil would build up an push the oil seal out .
i love this video. Its cool to watch someone work with such care and concern. love the spreadsheet. you and i would probably get along really well.
You're a good mechanic! This is exactly what I needed, time for me to do this on my 2010 wrx. Thank you!
This was a helpful video. Thank you for taking the time. I've got one valve tapping a bit on the left head with a few thousands over the acceptable lash tolerance and wasn't sure how the adjustment was made. Looks to be an easy fix... Just time consuming.
I bet this guy gets a million miles out of his motors. Love the attention to detail.
Your like the Bob Ross of Subaru's!
My Yamaha FZ750(motocycle) had 5 valves a cylinder, 3 intake, 2 exhaust, and used what looked like half dollars shims..that pop out of the bucket, and they have a size on the shim..and you just go up or down to adjust the clearance...of course you had to have a complete set of shims to do the job...but I worked for Yamaha and could do this...There was a special tool that held the bucket down so you could pop the shim out of it...I think it was a very good setup...
Older Subarus (I think the ej20s) had this set up. They ended up having issues with the shims popping out if people redlined their engines alot so they switched to the solid buckets. Makes it a bit more of a pain to adjust, but I've heard people say they get more consistent results (haven't seen the proof though)
I wonder how the shims stayed in my bike..it red lined at 11,000. I could take the gas tank off..look straight down the carbs..and see the crown of the pistons, the engine was at a 45 degree angle forward..
@@kennynvake4hve584 no idea, I always wondered that as well. Only reason I could think would be because of the horizontal nature of ej engines, but other than that I've got no clue
It's an expensive upgrade, but I'd recommend a bucket and shim upgrade
@@klord-is9ft ?
I just ordered 32 last wednesday...
I was looking for the clearance for a whole thanks I'm not buying buckets just gonna cut the valves.
I'm not sure I understand your statement, but if you have the tools and the skills to reach the goal then go for it. It's your motor.
@@pmatulew1 sorry I was pretty high lol I was looking for the clearances for a while I don't have all data or Mitchell rn and forums are not the most credible. My clearances on the intake range from .009 to .012 all my exauhst are .012 I think 15 is too high so I'm leaving it at 12.
Just gonna cut the valves not trying to buy buckets that's a waste of money lol
at 11:20 is that really a good idea to try and hone the surface with a stone and then assemble without cleaning? Also why would there be a bur?
You're making the assumption that I didn't wipe it down between stoning it and applying the RTV. There is a scene change there. You never know why there might be a burr. Could've gotten bumped. A little ding or some crud along the edge maybe. You'll be able to feel with the stone what you might not necessarily see by looking at it. Could be just a bump or a swelled area that was a manufacturing defect that the original assemblers never bothered to deal with. You are of course welcome to proceed any way you choose. It's your motor.
that excel sheet you willing to share replaceding my valve seals today adjusting these will be next:'(
What software are you looking at to reference the clearances?
The specs are in the service manual. The rest is just an excel spreadsheet I threw together. You could do the same thing on a piece of paper.
After putting the engine back together and setting the valves at spec - where they noisy with the increased clearance? Did you have a smoother idle once you adjusted them?
Noisy-er, yes. Tight valves are very quiet. Properly set valves have a little tick to them. Didn't notice any difference in the idle.
Amazing video, thanks for uploading X-)
so you needed thinner buckets? what would cause the gap to shrink? I would have thought that you'd need thicker buckets due to wear.
These engines have direct acting overhead cams. The valve seats recede in to the cylinder head, which allows the valve to sit deeper, which makes the valve stem stick out further on the back side, which makes the gap smaller
wear of the valve seats
Did you do this because the engine made a ticking sound? Did this fix it?
This is standard maintenance done at the recommended mileage interval. On these engines the valve clearance usually gets tighter rather than looser. So actually it will tick more after. I've added another 50k miles to this car since I made this video.
@@pmatulew1 I really appreciate the feedback on this. Im at 190k and I just did a compression test and the numbers that came back were good. The ticking is pretty loud though and wanted to look at doing the adjustment, especially on driving side. Will I need to pull the engine?
@@MC-eh2ot It's a judgment call. It can be done with the engine in place but it will be tight and awkward to work on. Tough to see what you're doing. I had the engine free and ready to lift out in less than 3 hours. (working by myself) I don't regret taking that path.
How do you know when the cam is back in the correct postion in this situation? Is it just a matter of lining up the timing marks again once you've got the cogs back on? I assume the valves themselves didn't move much while you were pushing the buckets in (or perhaps they did?)?
The valve springs are quite stiff. You won't move them by accident. The cams are what push the valves open. With the cams out, all the valves are closed. Since this is an "interference" engine design, (valves and pistons can crash in to each other if the timing isn't right), there are very detailed instructions in the service manual. Follow the instructions carefully and pay attention to what you're doing. Double check everything before you start rotating the crankshaft.
@@pmatulew1 Thanks!
what makes them tighter over time? If they are wearing down they should get looser, right? I'm facing the same situation. The dealership said they are too tight and wanted me to spend 3000 for them to take it apart and re-surface the cylinder head. But it looks like you can just replace the buckets?
Looser or tighter depends on the design of the motor. With these engines the the valve seats recede in to the head. The spring pulls the valve further in to compensate, which reduces the clearance at the cam side. Let that continue too long and when you run out of clearance the valve can't close all the way or doesn't dwell long enough to dissipate the heat and then you get burnt valves and low compression. I can't speculate what your dealership is trying to accomplish. Re-surfacing would normally be called for if the motor overheated and the head was warped or there was indication of a bad head gasket. Checking clearance and replacing buckets would fall under regular maintenance. Still a labor intensive project.
great vid thank you for the information! i am going ahead and doing the same work you have done here. got a 2011 wrx engine is pulled out. can i use a 0"-1" inch mic or do i need a 1"-2" inch mic to measure these buckets? thank you for the reply i need to buy a mic so i can go forward.
0-1 should work. 1-2 is just what I have. Honestly a 0-1 would be more convenient for most applications.
Paul Matulewicz thank you verry much MR. Paul ! :)
Great video, thanks.
So, you don't have to set the timing to TDC etc before measuring the gap between the cam lobes and the buckets?
After you've measured valve clearance on a few engines you'll come to realize that on most, nearly 50% of the cam lobe is consistently round, so anywhere between 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock on the lobe is fine for measuring. Just so the follower isn't on the ramp on either side. Saves time turning the crank shaft round and round more than necessary. If your motor has a peculiar cam that's difficult to measure then you may have to do it by the book.
Thank you, sir!
Appreciate this!
Thanks for the video. I did not quite get it. Are these hydraulic lifters? I have an impreza 2008 2.0L AWD 4EAT at 100k mark now. so time to change the belt and do adjustments. Is this what I will find inside? Saw other videos, showing much more convenient adjustment method. Maybe different engine? Not sure what engine I have, not as easy to figure out as with my old cars.
Also anyone knows where I can find a [free] service manual? Could only find some WRX of wrong year, and one of very similar model, but in russian.
No, not hydraulic. If they were, there would be nothing to do. Hydraulic lifters self adjust continuously unless they're clogged. These are solid "buckets and shims" that sit directly between the cams lobes and the valve stems. Fewer moving parts, light weight, low inertia. More common in high rev motorcycle engines. Just a bit more work when you get to the maintenance interval and they must be checked and adjusted. I don't know much about the 2.0L engine. If it's a single cam engine you may have rocker arms with screw adjusters instead.
Hi Paul, thanks for your reply. Just checked the only manual I could find (russian), and turn out my 2.0 engine is DOHC, same type of lifter as in your video. The belt already at it's end of life, so I guess I'll have to do this as well. Too bad it is not possible to adjust without ordering new parts, as this is my only vehicle (can't really afford weeks of waiting for the parts).
I guess I will remove the covers, measure clearances first, and put it all together to drive around while parts are on the way. But is it possible to judge the required part thickness without removing the cams, just from clearance? Bit too much work to do it twice. Or maybe it is possible to somehow, very gently, grind down the inner side of the cups?
Do you have any suggestions on ordering the parts: where to order, what is the typical expected cost, and what clearance should I aim for?
Thanks again for your help and a great video.
It is a lot of work to do twice. Once you pop the covers you can measure the existing clearance, (stone cold for consistency), and know if they need to be adjusted or not. Proper clearance specs will have to come from a manual specific to your motor. Online forums are usually good for that sort of thing. Buckets are labeled on the inside. No way to know what size you have until you take them out. My buckets measured slightly less than what they were labeled due to normal wear. Once you're at the point where you can measure them you already have everything apart and the cams out. It is possible to carefully grind down the inside surface (if you're close to the right size). But...you'll be compromising the heat treated surface of the metal and potentially inviting trouble. Not worth the risk IMO. Also not possible to add size if you need to go bigger, (unlikely). New buckets come directly from the dealer. Figure about $30 each. They can usually get them in a couple days. If you're lucky and have the right combination of sizes in your hand you can swap some of your existing buckets to a new spot and not need to purchase as many new. I think I was able to re-use 3. Had to purchase 7? Usually when you're at this maintenance interval you also need to do the timing belt, and all of the idler pulleys. (If the pulley bearings sound like skate wheels, they're done.) The 2.5L motors also recommend changing the water pump and re-sealing the oil pump at the same time. Same reason. It's a lot of work to do twice. Might as well refresh all the vital components while you have it apart. Peace of mind for the next 100K miles.
Thanks Paul, you have helped a lot. That's an expensive pile of cups. Quite expensive maintenance, actually, when you count in all the belts, pulleys, cups, etc. And if you decide the stealers to do it... Easily 1/2 cost of vehicle (purchased mine for 4k€ (2008 impreza).
If you have the skills, it's well worth it to do yourself. Shop rates add up in a hurry.
How did you go about removing the camshaft sprockets? Did you need to buy cam sprocket holder tools? I've heard those cam sprocket bolts can be a real pain to remove. I need to do the same job on my engine. Have a cyl. 2 misfire. Leakdown shows leak at exhaust. I'm going to try doing this with engine in car. Should have done this when I replaced the timing belt, 30k miles ago. Now at 139k.
Working with the engine in place? Good luck. Very little room to maneuver in there. I heard the same horror stories about the cam bolts. I pre-emptively bought one of the high quality hex drivers (legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/removing-your-cam-gears-pita-until-now-105594.html?s=fbdc60da3af9925e3e98f9e4f68cb383&) and carefully popped them loose with an air impact wrench, (one of the small butterflys). They came right out. The cams sprockets are a brittle plastic like bakelite so be gentle. I looked at buying a purpose made cam wrench but they were expensive for the limited number of times I was likely to use it. Using the old belt as a holder to keep the gears from turning worked very well.
+Paul Matulewicz Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately I need to reuse the belt. Will need to figure that one out. How long did it take you to pull the engine? Unfortunately I dont have a lift. Would hate to have to buy or rent one.
Pulling the engine was much simpler than I had expected. Lots of info and tips online. Working by myself it was ready to lift out in about 3hrs? Electrical is mostly one big connector. Radiator drains and comes out. A/C and power steering connections flip out of the way so they don't need to be disconnected. Gas line I was able to separate at one of the regular hose clamp connections, so no need for the fancy fuel line connector tools. Disconnect exhaust. Transmission and axles stay in place. For a sacrificial belt you may be able to sweet talk a local mechanic to save one for you. They toss them in the trash every day.
i got my valve buckets mixed up, what should i do?
Errrrrr, that's sucks. The only way to measure is with everything in place. That's why you need to document carefully before you start disassembling, and during disassembly, and not mix them up after the fact. If you try to put the cams in and then turn them separately to measure without the timing belt in place and adjusted, you run the risk of bending the valves against the pistons. Some have to be down while others are up. Safest approach would be to put the cams and buckets back together, (make your best guess). Hook up the timing belt and make sure the timing is correct. Then you can rotate the crank to measure what you've got and go from there. A few thousands plus or minus won't be a collision issue if you've got the buckets in the wrong place. Won't necessarily run that way, but you've got to get a baseline measurement. You might, MIGHT, If you install one cam at a time and leave the other out. Be able to do the screwdriver in the sparkplug hole game and rotate the crank so that both pistons on one side are halfway down. I don't know if that's enough clearance or not. Then be able to turn the cam on that side without moving the crank. If you decide to try it that way, it's on you. Turn the cam carefully and stop if you feel any resistance. And make sure you're in control of it. The valve springs could easily flip the cam over more than you intended.
great video, thanks
great video thanks
Does it cause Knock if I there's a gap in the valve ?
and it could be adjust ?
There needs to be some gap to allow for temperature expansion and contraction. If the valves have too much clearance there will be some additional noise. Generally described as ticking or clatter. Small parts, higher pitched. Adjustment procedure is as in the video. This generation motor usually gets tighter as time goes on rather than looser. On the other hand Subaru engines are known for a lower pitch knock. Usually attributed to piston slap. (The short fat pistons tip sideways in the cylinder instead of just going in and out and the piston skirt makes noise.) If the motor is old or has been abused it's also possible to have rod bearing or main bearing issues. If you think you are at that point it may be best to seek professional diagnosis.
A friend of mine could have used this about 2 years ago, he took the DOHC apart and got the buckets mixed up. Do you think that would have led to his engine failure just 250 miles later ? He also said he had a hard time bleeding the air out....the oil was BLACK and inside the case, all cooked. What do you think Paul ?
Bleeding the air out of what? I guess the engine failure depends on what failed? If the buckets got mixed, then it was up to him to verify that all the clearances were in tolerance and correct before he ran it again. Might have taken a couple tries of assembling the cams and measuring to get it right. But the alternative is the risk of bending the valves and holing the pistons. If the oil was cooked black inside the top end, that probably wasn't a good sign either. Run hot? Not changed often enough? By then it might have already had big end bearing issues ready to go boom.
@@pmatulew1 he put it in a vanagon so he had to bleed the air out of that system and the engine... the engine had fresh oil and went 250 miles, then it didn't. He told me he lost power, but you could hear the rod knock ! He's going to try again, but hopefully with more intelligence. He got a SOHC that was running and timing belt, head gaskets already done....and he told me he is making other changes so this engine stays a bit longer....
How did everything seal up? Any cylinder head oil leaks?
Good so far.
Did you notice any excessive valvetrain noise from the valves that were out of spec?
No, you won't. That's why it's important to check them at the recommended interval. It was actually more valve noise after they were reset closer to spec. Ticking valves are happy valves.
I have missfire #3 and replaced and moved everything.
Gaz is spewing from the exhaust..
..pretty sure bent exhaust valves are fucked.. lol
Cant see anything else at this point...
Or they are severely not well ajusted
Awesome video man
how can i get my hands on all the motors specs and clearance information
Join one of the online forums (www.subaruoutback.org) and dig around a bit until you find what you want and can download for free. Or buy a manual from one of the many available options.
11:01, if the part was already installed by Subaru, why did you feel that there may have been burrs to remove?
may have caused the burrs myself during removal or perhaps mishandling the parts while they were off the car. You never know. Better safe than sorry.
Bad idea. If there were burrs you would feel them. Nice new metal surface should stay that way.
Great job my friend. is this engine for a subaru forester 2004 xs ?
+javier rojas It's actually out of a 2008 Outback XT. The external accessories may be different but at the nuts and bolts level it's basically a WRX motor. Just dragging around a lot more booty in this application.
Where did you source your service manual from?
Great video btw!
Paul Matulewicz
1 year ago
The service manual? That would put me in the compromising position of publicly disseminating copyrighted material. If you were to join one of the Subaru forums, www.subaruoutback.org/forums/ , and put forth a little effort with the search function, I believe you would find what you're looking for.
Nice video but that torque wrench is from the 60's. Get a modern click type if you do this often.
Modern click type torque wrenches are neither more accurate, nor more reliable. They also need to be handled carefully and recalibrated on a regular basis. That bending beam wrench will last forever. The clicky wrenches I have get used when I'm in an awkward spot and can't pull on the wrench and read the gauge at the same time.
Modern click type torque wrenches are neither more accurate, nor more reliable. They also need to be handled carefully and recalibrated on a regular basis. That bending beam wrench will last forever. The clicky wrenches I have get used when I'm in an awkward spot and can't pull on the wrench and read the gauge at the same time.
I have legacy GT 2005 turbo it'll be same too like that
What software you use 1:07.
For the spreadsheet? LibreOffice on an old PC running Zorin Linux. Nothing special in the spreadsheet. Just addition and subtraction.For the video? Windows Live Movie Maker
What is that program your using?
Microsoft Office Excel. Any spreadsheet program would do the same thing. Heck even paper and pencil. It was just a convenient way to make note of all the measurements and then let the machine add and subtract.
That was Excel that you used? Marker was 10:35 looks like a manual for Subaru Engines. If it was an excel program where did u get the data from? That shows the detail
Just a PDF of the service manual. Not sure what the pdf viewer included with Zorin linux is.
Do you have another copy you can provide for me?
The service manual? That would put me in the compromising position of publicly disseminating copyrighted material. If you were to join one of the Subaru forums, www.subaruoutback.org/forums/ , and put forth a little effort with the search function, I believe you would find what you're looking for.
I have this engine in my '05 Legacy GT. The fact that Subaru designed an engine that must be REMOVED to adjust valves is beyond absurd. This will be my first and last Subaru.
You have a car you want to sell me? Is that what you are saying...
Paul, do you happen to have a copy still of the spread sheet you made?
Next time leave to pro's to work on your engine! You applied so much silicon which will block the seal drain channels🙈
Same on the rocker cover. ...it will all squeeze into the engine and drain into you oil sump lol....where that will end up common sense will tell you😉
When it's your motor and your wallet, do as you think best. CZcams advice is often worth exactly what you paid for it. Personally I've been witness to too many instances of mechanical malpractice to believe that a shirt with your name on it or a piece of paper tacked to the wall are a guarantee of anything. As for me and mine, it's been two years and 20K miles and the motor is humming along nicely with no issues and no leaks. If a video like this helps a car owner decide if they are willing or able to tackle this project or would rather hire out the work to a "professional", then I've done my part.
@@pmatulew1 My comment is in reference to someone who stated that you put too much silicon on it. Well, I've found out that those who often are not able nor willing to venture in doing ANYTHING IN LIFE to improve God given abilities, will often criticize, mock, ridicule, and even attempt to discourage those who set forth they knowledge to help others. This is a clear example of what satan set in peoples heart; that is Envy, Rebellion, and Cowardliness. But as the Lord said: Resist the devil and he will flee from you. By the way what software are you using to see all that information?
@@pmatulew1 wrecked that guy! I rather do it myself too instead of letting some 20 yr old who just graduated from Lincoln tech and now works at the dealer that just ditched their master tech to pay the young buck less. Haha.
why become defensive immediately when Heiko is absolutely correct, way too much silicone was applied. It can indeed squeeze into the inside and then into the sump. And can cause clogs where oil needs to go. He is not wrong at all. Now I am all for CZcams empowering people to tackle these types of jobs that many “professional” mechanics charge way way too much for but some care needs to be given to telling others to do things that are incorrect which can cause serious issues. And if someone who knows a little something chimes in why not embrace the information and share it? Just my 2 cents. “Professional” mechanic 27 years Ford, BMW, Subaru, and Boeing. Thank you for the video.
To all of you idiots stating he used to much silicone and his motor is soon to be guaranteed toasted looks like you techbook no-it-alls are incorrect as usual. As he stated in his comment which was months ago that the vehicle with "THE OVERUSE OF SILICONE" is still on the road (yrs and 20k+ miles later) running strong with all that motor blowing silicone running through it. LOL bet you guys feel smart now from a couple years ago.
do u have an instagram account or social media
where you had your valve covers off I noticed the look of the color of the oil you're definitely used the wrong kind of oil to leaving a coating might want to do something about that or you'll have future problems just saying
I got it with over 80K miles on it. Hard to say what it's diet was before I got it, though it appeared well cared for. Since then it get's brand name full synthetic every 3750, just like it's supposed to. Keeping a close eye on the turbo anyway just because.
Ok
I hate to be "that guy" but don't ever use tissue paper around engines! the lint from it kills bearings, fingers on cams? don't do it, our human oil can be quite acidic so use gloves and don't ever use stones on any engine parts unless you was the part and have an air compressor handy!
Spreadsheet ridiculousness
Yup. Way overkill. Measured two or three times and calculated every which way to make sure I was doing it right.
@@pmatulew1 thanks though, working on this currently. Subaru just sucks
DO NOT MIX AND MATCH BUCKETS. They Must stay with the cam position wear pattern matches with cam lobes. If you need to change buckets BUY NEW BUCKETS!
Buying all new would only half fix the issue of "wear patterns" unless you plan on replacing the cams and the head too so that all of the wear surfaces are fresh. As long as the parts aren't damaged or suspect for some reason, replacing them "just because" seems excessive. I choose to spend my dollars where it makes the most sense. If your motor is newer or under warranty or is run hard on a regular basis you may choose differently.
it's perfectly fine to mix and match buckets
way too much = a bead of sealant = not a blanket of goop ! clean it off !
Still kicking it 6 years later!
This was a helpful video. Thank you for taking the time. I've got one valve tapping a bit on the left head with a few thousands over the acceptable lash tolerance and wasn't sure how the adjustment was made. Looks to be an easy fix... Just time consuming.