Why Is Dutch Called That?
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2023
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Sources:
Blom-Zandstra, M., Paulissen, M., Agricola, H., Schaap, B. (2009). "How will climate change affect spatial planning in agricultural and natural environments? Examples from three Dutch case study regions." IOP Conference Series Earth and Environmental Science 8(1).
Elton, G. (1990). The New Cambridge Modern History: Volume 2, The Reformation, 1520-1559. p 342. Cambridge University Press.
Harreld, D. (2004). The Dutch Economy in the Golden Age (16th - 17th Centuries). EH.Net Encyclopedia, ed. Whaples, R.
Logie, J. (1980). 1830: De la régionalisation à l'indépendance. Paris-Gembloux, Duculot.
(2022). Online Etymology Dictionary. “Dutch”.
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Translations:
Leeuwe van den Heuvel - Dutch
CORRECTION: Actually "nether" means "lower" (same with "d'embas" I believe). Originally there's a deictic meaning to these words, ie. this place is lower than somewhere else. It's not really relevant to the overall point of the video, but it's cool in and of itself.
no way nether like the minecraft thingy
@@nyaKonayes. Or the mortal kombat Nether-realm. Meaning lower realm aka hell
Like in Minecraft the nether is meant to be hell which is usually below us
lol
nether is used because we call ðe area of benelux ðe "low countries"
You missed out an important side effect of the Dutch being called Dutch by the English, that is that they had to find a new word to call the Germans, hence "German".
Is _THAT_ why we call them that?
@@mayajade6198probably, also the germans live on the biggest part of Germania, historical region where germanic languages were/are spread, so they would rather be called “people of Germania” than the dutch, sho live in Germania’s small part
A handful additions from a Dutch speaking, Belgian history student:
While the word "Duits" does mean German in modern Dutch it descends from a word that could also mean both Dutch and German.
What you explained about how "the Netherlands" is a weird name to describe one of the low countries doesn't really apply in Dutch. You see, in Dutch there is a distinction between singular "Nederland" (the country) and plural "de Nederlanden" (the low countries), so while the English and French names of the Netherlands sound as if they are describing one country by the name of an entire region, the same doesn't apply in Dutch. (It's more complex, the formal name of the Netherlands does use plural, which in Dutch genuinely sounds as if it is claiming the entire region to be part of it.)
Lastly, historically the word "Flanders" was used to describe the entirety of the low countries in certain circumstances. This was because Flanders was actually the most important part of this region during the high and late medieval period. During the early parts of the early modern period Brabant became the most important, before quickly being eclipsed by Holland during the eighty years war.
I could write a book about this subject but I won't bore any of you by making this any longer.
for your first point, this is what i mean when i say that the meaning of "duits" becomes "german" by analogy - as in, by analogy with the narrowing of the word "deutsch" in the german language
The word which used to refer to both Dutch and German in Dutch was “dietsch”, according to Wiktionary also the source for Japanese ドイツ(doitsu) meaning “German” again, even though they supposedly got it from the Dutch when they themselves were calling themselves this?? Fascinating word for sure, hence why I used it as my online username as well
As far as i'm aware the region of the Lowlands is also often reffered to as "De lage landen" in Dutch which created an even bigger distinction between the word for the Netherlands and the region.
to be fair, the plural "Het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden" could also reference the fact that 7 distinct provinces joined into one kingdom, not necessarily an ego trip claiming the whole Benelux region.
Note the original republic was called "Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden", plural even though it did NOT include Belgium and Luxembourg
In French, we still call the country "les Pays-Bas", which translates as "Low Countries". "Embas" is basically a contraction of "en bas", meaning something like "down there" (or "downstairs", when referring to a house).
The language itself is called "néérlandais".
Regional fun fact: my grandma (born and raised with a Westfalian Dutch dialect) used to call Germany 'Pruusen' in a similar meaning shift from Kingdom of Prusia (part of Germany) to the whole of Germany
My family in Venlo also does this. I only do it for comedic effect, but pretty funny that in Westfalia they also do this
Yeah, in the eastern part of the Netherlands the dialect calls Germany, or the Germans, Pruus'n as well...
By Westfalian Dutch you mean Achterhooks or Twents? (Nethersaxon)
Fun fact! In spanish, we call them "Paises Bajos", if you do a direct translation it kinda means "Short Countries", but it actually means "Lower Countries", we also call them Holanda, and of course, the language is "Holandes", buuuut, the "correct formal name" of the language, is "neérlandes", which is funny, because as I said, we don't call the country "Neérlandia" or something like that.
man I was so damn confused by that, honestly just now I realized that Netherlands (which I knew was Paises Bajos) was Holanda, and then I also was confused by "Dutch" and sometimes thought it meant german but in german
And there is no term for the Low Countries in latviešu language. And we do not use Holande and Nīderlande as interchangable.
@@aratof18 Well they are german, just not Bundesrepublik german.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Germanic, not german. Just like how english and norwegian etc is also germanic, but not german.
@@EmmaVZ It's all a sliding scale and while googling I see that there _is_ apparently a difference between "low german" (which in modern times is like... "german spoken in northern netherlands") and dutsch. But as the video touches on, that whole germany/austria/netherlands/etc. area was a big mess of small kingdoms that were all "german" in a way you wouldn't say about english or the nordic languages. Not "nationality" (which wasn't a thing yet) but "kind of mutually intelligible languages" so to speak, in a time when languages were _also_ less clearly separated (cause no central education leading everyone to especially a similar vocabulary)
I am learning Dutch and that was very helpful. Always have been confused by this. In French we say "néerlandais" (literally "Netherlanders")" or "hollandais" to name Netherlands people. When you have to switch with english or dutch, that's confusing.
Just don't use the Dutch pronunciations in the video as a guide
Huh.
I thought that the Netherlands were called "Pays-bas" in French.
Well, there is "Nederland" but the BeNeLux are often referred to as "de lage landen" (the low lands) in advertisements. (The biggest music festival in 'de lage landen', etc.). There is also officially the expression "Nederlanden" which nobody except for academia uses. Lived in Amsterdam for 6 years and speak C1 level Dutch.
Nope, "Nederlanden" it is used a lot in "Koninkrijk der Nederlanden" to indicate the Dutch Kingdom as opposed to Nederland, the largest constituent country of that Kingdom, and indeed in a historical context, as before the break up of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, the use of Nederland (singular) was as rare as the use of United State of America is now...
It sure makes "Dutch" an interesting false friend for both Dutch and German speakers, since it looks similar to their words for "German" instead ("Deutsch" in German and "Duits" in Dutch).
Fun fact: In the US we actually have a group of German descent called the "Pennsylvania dutch". I'm assuming this is a corruption of Deutsche, rather send any meaningful reference to Dutch people.
That being said, this group's presence in the United States does predate the unification of Germany, so I'm not sure if that has any bearing on the terminology being used.
Edit: Pennsylvania dutch was mentioned. Ignore me lol.
As someone from Belgium, I can confirm that this was really confusing to learn
Ever since I found that latviešu language has german loan words not present in standard german Ive been wondering what germans would understand them.
@@pennyforyourthots The thing is, he said that pensylvania dutch came from the english word dutch and not a corruption of deutsche. I have always heard the corruption narrative, and this is the first time i've ever heard of that actually being the correct word
Like hmmm, which one out of "Deutschland" and "Nederland" speaks "Dutch"...
You know this really should have been self explanitory but the most interesting thing you presented me with is
Teuta (PIE)
Þeudō
Doič (DE)
Being the same as
Teuta (PIE)
Tauta (LV)
We latvieši use tauta to refer to any nation, we in particular are the latviešu tauta.
Tauta can also mean people you can say "tauta ir ieradusies" to mean "people have arrived"
It makes more sense to a Latvian, who kept using that word to describe people, than it does in English, which stopped using that word. So, from that perspective, I wouldn't exactly call it self-explanitory.
@@sethlangston181 It should be self explanitory to me.
Wana see another example of english having changed dramatically while latviešu languge basically hasnt. The PIE word for the god of rain, thunder, wrath, war, smithing, heorism and storm is Pērkwonos, we latvieši call him Pērkuans, where as english have changed half his traits and call him Thor.
French have "tout" which means 'all', so "everyone" is "tout le monde"
might be unrelated to this though
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Thor is the north germanic name for the god. The original english name is Thunor and in german Donar.
@@12tanuha21 Ive spoken english for 18 years and never have I heard the word Thunor.
Just a little correction: in the proto-germanic Word "theudō" and in the Old English word "theod" the "th" should be pronounced like the "th" in the English word "think", also these words usually aren't written with "th" and instead the letter þ is used
thanks!
yes and no. the fact that it became a D in dutch and german gives some indication that the sound may have been voiced in proto-germanic, or at least that there was an amount of variability between voiced and voiceless th since it wasnt contrastive at that time. they were allophones anyway.
@@gwen6622 In proto-germanic all fricatives became voiced when they weren't word initial and the previous syllable wasn't stressed, in "þeudō" the fricative is word initial so it would be voiceless; in Old English [ð] was an allophone of /θ/ between vowels and voiced consonants when the previous syllable was stressed, so in the word "þeod" it would remain voiceless
@@cesaresolimando5145 again... yes and no. if there was an unstressed syllable before it, it would be voiced, regardless of whether it was word initial. this is how words like "the", "that", and "this" became voiced in English. in modern german, initial s is pronounced z, initial th underwent fortition to d, and many instances of initial f became v (they then shifted back down to f, though not before being spelled with v). Dutch is the same, having "vis" for fish, and things like that. th and dh were allophonic, and didn't contrast until much later, so it's not wrong to pronounced theod as dheod, especially during a bit about how they ended up deut- and duit- in german and dutch. if it wasnt at least sometimes voiced, it would have ended up teut- and tuit-
@@gwen6622 In German, it's actually not unheard of to turn the d into a t.
Very interesting! Pretty similar to people calling the UK "England" and the USA "America".
The UK is 80% England tho. The Nederlands is minority Holland.
America is still in the official name of the country, though (the United States of America), unlike UK, where the full name of the country doesn't even mention England ( the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Meanwhile, China is PRC (the People's Republic of China), South Korea is ROK (Republic of Korea), North Korea is DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea), Germany is FRG (Federal Republic of Germany), etc. Pretty much the only countries whose official name is the same as the common name I can think of are Japan and Canada.
@@sethlangston181 People also refer to it as the US, to which I always wonder The United States of Mexico?
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Technically, it's the United Mexican States, but I can still see the confusion.
@@sethlangston181Most countries have both an official short name and an official long name.
The official short name is almost always the same as the common name.
I often call Dannish lunguage Dutch, because it's really similar to Polish "duński" (aka, Dannish) :p
Po angielsku, duński się pisa "Danish"
@@figbud5288I like Dannish
@@Liggliluff Jeg også
Even more confusing in Russian where "Danish" is "Datskiy" and "Dane" is "Datchanin (m.)/Datchanka (f.)".
Just a quick reminder that the words ‘fact’ and ‘factoid’ aren’t synonyms. The definition of factoid is: an item of *unreliable* information that is reported and repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact.
Besides that, I love your videos. They’re very educational and entertaining.
Indeed they aren't, but factoid doesn't inherently mean a wrong fact. It can also act as a synonym for "factlet" and mean "An interesting item of trivia; a minor fact," and Wiktionary notes that this more recent sense is gaining in usage over the "canonical" meaning that you described.
@@spaghettiking653 Huh, I didn't know that. Thank you!
To call people from netherlands dutch is not only confusing when differentiating between dutch and deutsch but also when it comes to differentiating between german and germanic.
In german its not confusing at all because a german is deutsch and germanic is germanisch.
Its too late to change it now but man, Dutchland would be a great name for Deutschland in english :(
I dont get the whole confusion. I use vācu to refer to either german and/or germanic and that has never caused a problem. I could say vācu and ģermāņu but I dont feel like using loanwords when I dont need to.
Also there is absolutely no confusion between german and germanic, the "-ic" is very noticable.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 There are some issues when it comes to declination. A baltic person is a balt, a slavic person is a slav. A germanic person is a german...ican? Correct would be german, but you cant use it like that anymore.
@@theChaosKe This is only because there is no nation-state called Slavia or Baltica. It's not an issue that English created by "misattributing" Deutsch/Dutch, it's an issue because the distinctions were formulated before Germany was a state.
@@ThePrinceofParthia I agree that you cannot fault english for the distinction between dutch and deutsch because they split later but naming deutschland "germany" in 1871 is a different case imo.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 It get confusing when people describe Westgermanic tribes before Otto the Great as Germans.
I used to get asked if I was Dutch, since I have a "von" in my last name. As a kid that didn't speak English very well, that sounded like "deutsch" to me, so I said yes. It was only years later that I realised that...
There is also Low German. The Dutch also used to have the idea of Dietsland. A clearer separation among the (mostly rural) people came with the proliferation of standard Dutch and standard German (in opposition to Low German dialects) and you can find late 19th early 20th century language maps showing Low German covering areas.
In de tied van de Hanze wuir t schrieven van Leegsaksische teksten nait liek zo naauw nomen as dat nou aan tou gaait in t Nederlaands, Hoogduuts of t Engels. Veur t Leegsaksisch in zien hailen is der - in tegenstèllen tot veur veul aandere toalen - gain algemain woordenbouk opsteld, môr wel veur de verschaaidene Leegsaksische dialekten. Dit komt omdat t Leegsaksisch gain standerdtoal is of het. Veur t Leegsaksisch bestoan der wel verschillenade standerdspèllens, môr is voak gain moutwaark.
Oftewel de Algemene Nedersaksische schriefwieze : )
(We still have it’s elements in many of our dialects in the Netherlands, especially older people living in small (hanze)villages ) *
(Off topic but “Hanze” referring to “Hanseatic League.” The network was a partnership of merchants and member cities with the aim of commerce to help and protect. The network begins in Germany from the middle of the twelfth century and reaches from Belgium up the Netherlands to Kopenhagen, Stockholm eastward to Riga down to Krakow
@@hoidoei941 Yepp, that's pretty similar to the old language here. And, of course, I know what Hanse is. It is something everybody knows here but I also have a degree in history. Nice to know it also survived on the other side.
The "ui" in Dutch (which by the way means "onion") can be best described as a german "ä" followed by an "ü". To me it's always sounded like that.
In that case you're mistaken in either the pronunciation of dutch 'ui' OR german 'ä', as nowhere in Dutch 'ui' does the proper pronunciation of german 'ä' make an appearance, not even close
@@jesperwillems_ I've never been told that I pronounce these things incorrectly - what I do struggle with as a non-native is getting my "g" consistently harsh enough - , it's just that I'm struggling to find another way excluding IPA transcriptions to represent it with the ortography of any other language I know.
wat lul jij dan
Would be really interesting if you made a video explaining why in ROME people spoke LATIN, then once it fell, French, Italian, Spanish became ROMance languages, and then when they colonized south America, people that live there became known as LATINos
IIRC, it's named after Latium, one of the major provinces of the Roman Empire. So kind of similar to the Holland thing, actually!
@@andrewphilos I know that. Tho the connection with the South America seems weird. They don't even speak Latin. And they definitely have nothing in common with Latium
@@reallybad457The Roman Republic came to be dominated by the Latins, the tribe who stemmed from Latium, as you already said. Once Rome fell, the literary prestige lect, Classical Latin, stopped being spoken or written, and the Latin spoken by the people evolved into what we know today as Proto-Romance (a chronolect of Vulgar Latin). The word "Romance" is an innovation from Old French "romanz", which originally referred to the Old French vernacular of Latin and stems from Late Latin rōmānicē. For whatever reason, the meaning, as borrowed into the English language, by the 17th century shifted to refer to all Latinate languages, probably because English has no especial need to refer only to the French vernacular and found better purpose for the word in referring to all Latin-derived lects.
The naming of Latin America stems from the fact that it was colonised, almost in its entirety, by Latin-derived-language-speakers, I.e. by the French, Spanish, and Portuguese (basically the only non-Latin country in the area is Suriname, which speaks Dutch. Hey, nice connection!). Now, the exact English derivation is from French Amérique latine, allegedly coined by Napoleon III to describe the region. In Spanish, the equivalent Latinoamérica is analysed as latino (Latin, adj., of the language) + América. So just a transparent compound of the terms. I would suggest that these two probably formed separately, but I could find no further information on the etymologies, so who knows. But at any rate, it's called Latin America because Latin (Romance) speakers moved there.
Also note, the English term Latino is back-formed from Spanish latinoamericano, probably on the pattern of Afro or Anglo, and in Spanish this word is proscribed for referring to "Latinos", but of course it's still used that way anyway...
There ya go, now you don't have to watch a squarespace ad :p
@@andrewphilos*Latium
Just to make things more complicated, the term Latin America refers to countries that speak Spanish and Portuguese, so they they could just as easily have called them Iberian. That would have also solved the issue of why francophone parts of the Americas are not “Latin” despite French descending from Latin.
Back when the term Nederlands became used instead of Duuts/Duits/Diets(depending on dialect), there was a second term created to contrast Dutch and German, which was "Overlands" to refer to German. Didn't really catch on, because Duits became the general term for German, and isn't used anymore but I found it in my historical research and I thought it was pretty cool.
We should start calling English "Thedish"
(also I find it interesting that these words are also cognate with Polish word "cudzy" meaning "someone else's" which is the opposite of the germanic meanings)
The word actually was still in use in middle english and used in places like thetford (roughly meaning public ford). However modern english lost it.
FINALLY.
I have literally wondered this all my life and any time I’d asked someone they didn’t even get what the question was. THANK YOU.
2:40 The day this video came out someone added [citation needed] to that claim and today the claim was removed.
very cool
And of course in my IAL it's called "lingo nedelando", and German is called "lingo docho", because nothing can ever be simple.
Meanwhile my people say "nīderlandiešu valoda" and "standarta vācu valoda".
As a dutch person I have always pondered on this as well. Thanks for the explanation.
German:
Die Niederlande (the Netherlands)
Niederländisch (Dutch language)
Niederländisch (Dutch as an adjective)
And many people still use
Holland (Holland)
Holländisch
Holländisch
But it has decreased and is increasingly replaced by Netherlands
Interesting map at 1:08, I never knew that Arnhem was so far north. Maor 'n blenders meue video hej emaakt
i saw this great by video by a Dutchman about metaphors about the Dutch i.e. going Dutch, Dutch courage, double Dutch but i can't remember the channel's name now
the Present Past
@@ariearie7953 Ā now I get it.
According to the Organisation of Standardisation of Geographic Names Outside of the Republic of Poland;
Full-name: Królestwo Niderlandów
Short-Name: Holandia [Niderlandy* is exclusively for historic entities]
Adjective: niderlandzki, holenderski
People: Holender (m)/Holendka (f) [Niderlandczyk (m)/Niderlandka (f) are rarely used]
Language: holenderski (the dialect of the Netherlands specifically), niderlandzki (all the dialects combined including Flemish)
*due to the Dutch government wanting English speakers to use the Netherlands over Holland some Polish people switched like me but it isn't official and rarely used because it's seen as going against the culture of the Polish language.
That's a myth. The Dutch government doesn't tell foreigners what to do. They decided to stop referring to themselves ambiguously. So they call themselves the Netherlands or a translation to stop the confusion where both were common. The rest of the world may keep on referring to the Netherlands however they like. To most people in the world in Mandarin, Hindi, Arabic, Japanese they continue call themselves Holland.
@@bramalkema
I think I was incorrect. I think it was the Dutch Tourism industry rebranding in English so more visitors visit more of the country other than the two Hollands but it was misinterpreted as the Dutch Government wanting English speakers to use the Netherlands over Holland. IDK it's very odd.
@@modmaker7617 Rule when a laguage uses both stick to referencing to yourself as "Netherlands" or "Pais Bas" and not both to avoid ambiguity. When a language uses Holland-or something stick with that (Most people in the world :Hindi, Mandaron, Japanese, Arabic, Slavic, Yoruba) Or simply: avoid ambiguity. Not odd at all.
@@bramalkema
Well, Slavic languages use the Netherlands;
Polish: Holandia, Niderlandy
Czech: Nizozemsko
Slovak: Holandsko
Russian: Нидерланды (Niderlandy), Голландия (Gollandija)
Ukrainian: Нідерланди (Niderlandy), Голландія (Hollandija)
Belarusian: Нідэрланды (Niderlandy)
Slovene: Nizozemska
Serbo-Croatian: Nizozemska, Holandija
North-Macedonian: Холандија (Holandija)
Bulgarian: Нидерландия (Niderlandija)
Interslavic: Niderlandy
@@modmaker7617 Sure, Slavic is mixed. Same generic public communication guideline: don't force anyone, but always refer to yourself as (a translation of) Netherlands (without an article) unless only (a translation of) Holland is available.
Ive always wondered why thats the case, thanks k klein 👍
And you didnt go find out yourself?
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714I'm too lazy bruv
In Bengali "Dutch" is - Olondaaj ( 'olon' as in "colon" and 'da' as in "the" and 'aaj' as in "grudge" )
Really was fascinating! Thank you
The archaic dutch word of "dutch" is dietz not duits. "i'm of dietzen blood" is in one of the first verses of our athem and its the word we used to describe the old english term of dutch. Duits came for dietz but the term is different since duits only means germans or german language.
But it is written as "Ben ick van Duytschen bloet" ?
Babe wake up it’s finally time
Is this and Alt Shift X video?
Great stuff as always
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻you ate this wonderful job
What a flawless transition to ad
THANK YOU! You have answered a question that's been nagging me for 10 whole years!
The word "Dutch" is also etymologically linked to words "deutlich", "duidelijk", and "Teutonic".
lovely conclusion to this one :)
Funnily enough, old dutch words for the spoken language was either '" Diets" or " Duits" , which depended on the region you can from. Therefore, if you read the dutch anthem it said: ' ' ben ik van duitsen bloed' than it can be translated/ interpreted to:' I am form the people' instead of: "I am from german origin". Another funny point is that in some dialects in the Netherlands when people are talking about their dialect in dialect they call it: " plat" instead of the dialect name in dutch e.g. Limbourgish. This refers to the fact that it me flat and comes from the fact that the dialect is lower than the German dialects.
There was a transitioning period in the netherlands between 1600 to 1700 where it was common practice to use nederduytsch to mean someone dutch and hoghduytsch to mean someone german/swiss/austrian.
So there was always a bit of a link between dutch and low german.
Low german is also called "Platt" ;)
@@zafelrede4884 yeah I know since my father speaks with his brothers Nedersaksisch and they also call it plat. So you know Nedersaksisch is the dialect of neder deutsch in the Netherlands which could be considered an inbetween language. Also, it is considered a regional language.
I mean Wilhelmus in the anthem was actually of German blood, since he came from Nassau. I think the broader point is that until the 16th-17th century, Dutch and Germans saw themselves as roughly part of the same nation.
About the Dutch being unique to English, that's false. Scots (edit: as well as Scottish Gaelic, Fijian Hindi, Jamaican Creol, Norfolk Creol, Sesotho, Setswana. Source: Wikipedia (to be more precise the various languages in which the Dutch Language article is written)) also uses Dutch or variation thereof.
thereeee you go that's a good counterexample
To be fair that doesn't necessarily cover the actual claim, which is that no other language uses Dutch as an adjective. There are definitely several languages like those ones that use it as a proper noun, though.
Some context:
- Scots coevolved with English and arguably is a dialect so it's a bit of a shaky example
- Scottish Gaelic likely was a loanword from Scots/English or Middle English
- Loanword in Fijan Hindi
- Said creoles use an English base and thus many of the words are English in origin
I think the Wikipedia page perhaps means that "Dutch" referring to the Netherlands is something that's English in origin?
There’s nothing “Low” about Luxembourg (apart from its tax and public transport fares): I wouldn’t say that Luxembourg is part of the Low Countries anyway; the Low Countries is really just Belgium and Netherlands. When you include Luxembourg, it becomes Benelux, the origin of which is obvious.
I disagree, historically Luxemburg has always been a part of the Low Countries. The Grand-Duchy of Luxemburg has been as much part of the Low Countries as Flanders and Holland and arguably even more than the regions that in the past were included in the Prince-Bishopric of Liege. Just because it isn't physically low, doesn't mean it wasn't part of the region.
Great video! Now, add another k to your username to celebrate such a great video!
In czech the Netherlands are called „nizozemsko” meaning country of the lowlands or country where the land is low depending on the interpretation
you're right, that actually is really interesting
These videos makin me straight up jorkin' it
In Turkish we call Netherlands Hollanda and their language Felemenkçe
i love your videos
If you really wanna focus in on power shaping language, then 'Dutch' and its etymological environment is a fantastic one, particularly also in the context of the German version of it: 'Deutsch', stemming from 'teuta*', had no ethnic meaning until after the early modern period.
During the medieval period, Old High German 'diudisc' and old Saxon 'thiudisk' had the same semantic content as Icelandic þjóð has nowadays, "population, nation, folk," and didn't refer to some German people, but rather any people whatsoever, a definition which narrowed down as a way of stressing the multiethnicity of the eastern remnant of the Carolingian bureaucracy, especially as the Saxon nation was given political relevance, such that the bureaucracy was no longer referred to as the (eastern) kingdom of the Frank's, but as the kingdom of *the nations*. (In this regard, 'German' is a... Not very good translation, as it implies 'German' was understood as a demonym, which is not only categorically wrong, but also about as ridiculous as saying that the United Nations is actually a nation state and that 'National' is the demonym of it.). That's not to say there weren't demonyms: Franconian, Bavarian, Swabian, Saxons, and so forth were all understood as national (deutsche) terms. They were not interchangeable, of course, but they did describe the various nations of "Germany" back then.
This nonethnic understanding of 'Deutsch' did begin to be challenged throughout the XV. and XVI. centuries, as the Holy Roman Emperor sought to unite or otherwise exercise control over the peoples living in "German" lands. It became less politically useful to emphasise the transnationality of "(Holy) Roman" and more politically useful to centralise power within the "German" constituent of the state, all the other ones (leave Bohemia) had seceded in some capacity. Even after that, throughout the modern period, the conception of 'Deutsch' as an ethnic term still didn't really manage to compete against the Heimate conception of Deutschsein, in which the term 'deutsch' was recontextualised from being a general term describing any nationality, to a more specific term describing a particular locality (which meant that 'deutsch' became dependent on location -- it meant different things in the Rhineland from in Switzerland, or in Austria, etc.). This Heimate conception of what 'deutsch' was understood as was not seriously challenged until the Prussians forced the various states in Germany together, but quite honestly thrived until Hitler and WW2.
If there's one thing German historiography and Germanistics offer to teach, it must be that 'deutsch' as an ethnic term, or really, any idea of a German nation altogether, is a very recent thing, and a very political thing. The idea of 'deutsch' as an ethnic term Was first used because it was a politically useful term, whether to distinguish one nation from "the Germans" (similar to how the English used 'Dutch' to describe "Netherlandish", the Italians used "germani" to describe all the nations of Germany), or, to internally emphasise a national unity. Either way, its use is the result of the propagation of a political myth. Language is intimately tied to power.
Sorry for the info dump x3
The dutch word "duits" is pronounced with an œʏ̆ not aŭ,
Great question
Cool video 😎
just a quick mistake in this video, the proper proto Germanic term is *þiudiskaz which is the adjective form of *þeudó using the -iskaz suffix otherwise the descendent words would not contain a sibilant at the end
I found out while reading Japanese Wikipedia that the word ネーデルラント (Nēderurando) actually means "Low Countries" and the Netherlands is always オランダ (Oranda)
ネーデルランドis just a translation of the Netherlands and has no means other than that.
In French the situation is quite the same. They call the country the "Pays-bas" (literally the Low-Countries), and the people or the language "néerlandais", which apparently comes from Nederlands. As for the equivalent of Holland - Hollande, no one use it, except for the president François Hollande.
Before the kingdom of the netherlands, the dutch too called the area and language diets or duuts. The difference was made when the kingdom was created
- what is Holland?
- what do you mean, what is it? It’s a country, right next to Belgium.
- No that’s the Netherlands!
- Holland IS the Netherlands!
- Then who are the Dutch?!
This is not minish cap!
2:33 Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Chinese translation here literally mean "dutch language"?
I thought you were going to talk about Dutch Van Der Lynde. Been playing Red Dead lately
Did “theod” ever become an English word by itself? If not what would the word be today if evolved the same as all other Old English words?
WOOOOO Pennsylvania is mentioned!
I'm a Pennsylvanian who has German and Dutch ancestry. So it's cool seeing all of it mentioned in this video lol
We can switch to Hollandaise. All confusion cleared up.
Mayonaise?
The ui in Duits is a diphthong of the aa and uu, which both kind of don't exist in English
Zealand means Sea-Land, land of the sea. [ pronounced zay londt ]. Approx 1:21.
Presumably whoever discovered ( and named ) New Zealand came from this province
Good video but the Glorious Revolution isn't really a Dutch takeover of Britain, he was invited by the English Parliament who were just looking for a suitable (and pliable) Protestant royal to replace James II.
He wasn't invited by Parliament, he was invited quite hastily by a group of 14 men, the minority of whom were members of Parliament. Effectively it was a kind of foreign coup, so not exactly a conquest but it certainly wasn't as straightforward or peaceful as you suggest.
No. He, the appointed stadtholder of the Dutch Republic, asked those 7 powerless lords to invite him for propaganda reasons, while preparing the invasion. As in building a fleet twice the size of the Armada and getting a 40.000 soldier army together. The fact that the legitimate English king ran off to France after which his soldiers deserted and defected does not make it any less of an invasion.
Actually, there was not a single Englishman who significantly influenced the course of events. London was occupied, no English soldier allowed near it for years. Most English were happy with it, but it happened to them, they got nothing that wasn't offered by the Dutch. The Dutch just wanted a stable ally, in their own, modern, image. They didn't want to rule as a hostile power, they had parliements themselves too.
Proud to know all of this already, like literally everything mentioned here
Funnily enough in Turkish Dutch is called "Hollandish" (Hollandaca) Though I have also seen it be called Felemenkçe but don't know what that refers to as the country is called Holland (Hollanda) in Turkish
Seems to me this is all mostly wrong. It is more likely that 'Neder' (Nether, Nieder) refers to the social stature of those that spoke the (ordinary) peoples language rather than geographical properties in this part of Europe. In effect the country of humble men, of peasants, not ruled by any king or noble, and as a result not tempted to grant special treatment to captured British naval officers who corresponding to social hierarchy all were of noble blood. Note also that in the Dutch anthem William of Orange is stated to be of 'Duitsen bloed' , in present day often incorrectly translated as of German blood but actually meaning that he was one of the people (even though he was in fact born in a noble family).
I believe another language that calls the language Dutch is Thai (ภาษาดัตช์ phasa dat), though this is very clearly borrowed straight from English.
In Swahili, we called Dutch Kiholanzi originally from the word Holland
In Hebrew the whole country is officially called _Holand_ and the people there speak _Holandit._
I was disappointed too.
Northern German dialects are also known as Niederdeutsch, opposed to Oberdeutsch
i mean know already but fine i'll watch your stuff
When I was learning Japanese I had gotten really confused why the Netherlands was オランダ (oranda) after “Holland.” Still confused and I’m going to look it up more now
As a German, the first couple times I heard the word Dutch back when I was still learning English I thought it was another word for German (Deutsch)
Is there any chance you could cover the evolution of Afrikaans from Dutch?
Is there much to look at tho? History with Hilbert did a video if youre interested.
Holland is a word Ive only ever used for Holland never the Nederlands and its the same for all people I know.
In most big languagues outside of Europe sure: Oranda Hulanda Hulan.. But Roman and German languages call it the Netherlands. And so do most who watch sports a lot.
Using it to refer to the Netherlands as a whole is common here among older people but I rarely hear it from younger people
0:59 both belgium and luxembourg were once a part of the netherlands too, it was all the same country, in fact belgium used to be called "southern netherlands"
Did you watch the full video?
Elton
0:25 in bulgarian the word for Germany in Германия and the for German (language) is Немски
I've always wondered why it isnt NeTherLandIsh
why did you capitalize the beginning of every syllable in that last word
@@Donut-Eater I dOn'T KnOw
Dutch and Deutsch mean "folk" other variations are Teuton and the irish Tuatha. Tuatha dé Danann in irish mythology meaning "People (folk) of the goddess Danu. In Hungary in the middle ages we called the neighbouring slavs "tót" which comes from the same root as Deutsch, Dutch,Teutsch, Teuton, and Tuatha.
in portuguese we refer to the country as holland and the language as hollandese (brazil)
In swedish everybody calls it Holland and the language Hollänska but the correct words are Nederläderna (literally "the lower countries") and the language is Nederländska
Oh In Scots they still call it Dutch. Also If you want to say its not a language my counter is that I don't believe a dialect can have dialects which makes scots a language because you have four dialects the one I speak Ulster-Scots, then the Northern, Central & Southern dialecs. Insular, Glasgow & Doric. & F for extinct Cromarty dialect dead since 2012. Since A dialect can't have a dialect it ain't a dialect but a language. Also If you ever meet a person who speaks scots & you don't you cannae understand more than a word out of every sentence. the scottish Accent is different & trust me the accent here in Norin Iron is also very much different as its hard to hear what a person with a thick scots accent is saying & I can speak basic sentences like hae are ye. & stuff like that.
"I don't believe a dialect can have dialects" Oh it can. Latviešu language is devided in 3 main dialects. Lībiešu dialect, middle dialect and highlander dialect.
Lībiešu dialect devides in to
1 Deep Kurzemes
2 Shallow Kurzemes
3 Vidzemes
4* Rūjienas
Middle dialect is devided in to
1 Kurzemes
2 Zemgales
3 Vidzemes
4** Zemgales with a thing I dont know the english word for
Highlander dialects
1 Latgaliešu deep
2 Latgaliešu shallow
3 Sēļu deep
4 Sēļu shallow
* the speech variety spoken arround Rūjiena is one not influenced by livonian but rather southern estonian.
** the thing is that they ad a freeking i everywhere. Basically they divide words in to silibles diferently and ad a short i where you a silible would end up without a vowel.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 I mean like that's more accents. If you look at Scots compared to English they are sometimes intelligible other times not. But then again its probably because it's the only language English speakers can understand without much lessons. But with Norwegian, Swedish & Danish you also can understand them. but they have variations of the dialects. I don't know the difference is more politics than anything else. People say "Scots ain't a language its a dialect it doesn't deserve to be taught & preserved" but that's why its rising in Scotland because people want to prove them wrong. Its like if you don't fight it you'll start to die out like all the French dialects as they say "that's improper speech speak properly" & they teach kids to stop speaking it like I was taught in Catholic school to stop pronouncing things as a protestant would. Like its just used here at least to erode the native speak in favour of English 'proper' but I'll still be saying wee lads & lasses & I'll teach my own weans when I hae em to speak properly & hopefully prevent the erosion of the Ulster-scots language & its culture.
@@cillianennis9921 It can be both. Low german is both a dialect of german and a different language with sub dialects.
Reason for that is that standard german was formed out of a middle german and an upper (south) german dialect, forming high german. So middle and upper german dialects remain intelligble to standard german speakers, while low (north) german dialects arent.
Long story short, i think the main factor is really intelligibility.
Another case is luxemburgish, which officially became a distinct language in the mid 80s but is still so vastly understandable to standard german speakers that some still see it as a german dialect.
@@theChaosKe yeah I guess but here calling Scots a dialect is used to make it seem less important than it is & is used to wave away the problem of it dying out because we aren't protecting it which is why people here could argue about it but maybe not the same in Germany.
Ich Spreike deutsch.
My written German is rusty my spoken is better.
@@cillianennis9921 Sad to hear that. Is the UK not protecting its minority languages? Low german was on the decline but around 25 years ago they started protection programs so low german is taught again in schools. Currently has around 5 mil speakers give or take.
You said you couldn't think of other examples... how about people from Denmark being called Danes or Danish (not Denmarkian), or Kiwis from New Zealand?
Not sure about Danes but Kiwi is because of the association with the Kiwi bird I think, nothing to do with the state. The official demonym is actually New Zealander.
Kiwis is a coloquial term, the official term which is still used casually is New Zealander. There is still a clear tie of **Den**mark and **Dan**ish, the only difference between the two being a slight difference in a vowel that expanded over time.
“It’s like if someone named there country after the whole continent they’re in” 🗿
In Romanian, Netherlands is "Olanda" and Dutch language is "olandeză".
As Indonesia we called "Dutch" Is "Londo"
Some English lord: Now it's time to send some Dutch-speaking diplomats to Holland.
English diplomat: Pardon me for my question, Sir, but why don't we just use Netherlands, Netherlander, and Netherlandish to describe them.
English lord: Because we certainly love
confusing the hell out of you, mate.
Though there is an alternative in Swahili, Kidachi meaning Dutch
Cooles Video 🫶
1:23 its zeeland not zealand
oh damn that was stupid, literally rewatched the video 3 times and each time thought i'd written Zeeland. thanks for pointing it out!
@@kklein Your welcome! And thanks for the reply
Nice to see the North has reclaimed Arnhem
Dutch/Deutch/duits is all the same thing for us netherlanders
He did not 'invade' we politely let him in, due to a succession crisis
Now I understand why germany is called doitsu in japanese
The language of the Dutch and germans was, before the reformation and spanish netherlands, kinda similar.
But since Luther reformed the german language and the dutch weren't affected by it, a diffrence occured.
It still is recognisable, atleast if you read it.