Trope Talk: Time Travel
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2018
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Time travel! A concept as old as insert obvious joke here! Today let's talk about how time travel works (or doesn't) and why its stories can be a little… weird sometimes.
What's your favorite time plot? Also, which doctor/companion is your fave? (Mine's 10 and Martha deserved better)
EXAMPLES USED: Doctor Who (s1e1, An Unearthly Child), Doctor Who (s1e2, The Daleks), Doctor Who (s29e7, 42), The Terminator, Back to the Future, Gravity Falls (s1e9, The Time Traveler's Pig), Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Terminator 2: Judgment Day, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (s1e1, Pilot), Justice League (s1e24-26, The Savage Time), Samurai Jack (s1e1, I), Samurai Jack (s5e7, XCVIII), Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox, Doctor Who (s28e9, Rise of the Cybermen), Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, Doctor Who (s31e12, The Pandorica Opens), Assassin's Creed, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Thundercats 2011 (s1e7, Legacy), The Flash (s4e23, We Are The Flash), Justice League (s3e12-13, The Once and Future Thing), Kim Possible: A Sitch In Time, Doctor Who (s30e11, Turn Left), Terminator: Genisys, Doctor Who (s27e8, Father's Day), Doctor Who (s30e2, The Fires of Pompeii), Doctor Who (s29e11-13, Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords), Doctor Who (s27e12-13, Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways), The Flash (s1e23, Fast Enough)
Do you know how many of these examples had Will Friedle in a starring role? MORE THAN I EXPECTED. Dude is prolific. Did you know he played Ron Stoppable AND ALSO BATMAN?
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Loved this video filled with wibbly wobbly, timey wimey... stuff. Fantastic job as always!
And thank you, everyone, for all the love we've been getting! We're working as fast as we can to answer everyone's questions and comments, so hang tight! :D
I was trying to keep track of my character relationships with Evernote, and being annoyed at the inherent limitations of it. I'm going to try this out, and hopefully it's what I need.
@@Kentnstay Please do, let us know what you think! If it doesn't hold up to your standards or we're lacking some features, by all means, let us know! We're constantly tinkering around and coming out with updates!
I would use Campfire- It looks incredible, after all! But I don't have any money.
Is there a free version?
@@dracomurdock6349 We offer a 10 day free trial with a 10 day refund policy if you buy on the site. That way, you can play with Campfire for up to 20 days to decide if you like it!
That's odd. What happened to Purple? Purple always does the Trope Talks. Like Red always talks about history, and Blue alwa-
...Oh god! _What have I done?!_
And I just fixed it earlier. GOD DAMN IT!
Wait i thought purple did trope talks and Blue did history?
In fact who the heck is this chick?...
WAIT WHAT DID YOU DOOO!
What is a Purple?
Oh no
Guys, I can't remember why I have a robot arm and why it has a tentacle function.
@@patrickfrost9405 I can ;)
“We don’t serve time travelers here” said the bartender
A time traveler walks into the bar
TBPepper George Martin walks into a bar, and everyone you know dies.
Steven Moffat then walks into the bar, and everybody who ever died comes back to life without explanation and starts flirting with each other.
@@slateoffate9812 Steven Moffat walks into a bar, Rory dies.
Connor Bingham-Davis But not really.
A time traveler walks into a bar.
"Are ye a time traveler?" The bartender asked, looking at his strange outfit.
"N-no... I'm... foreign. Yeah. Foreign.":
The time traveler got his drink normally and left, probably messing up 50 timelines along the way, or something.
vulkan435 I don't get it.
"Used the phrase 'status quo' so much in these videos, I wouldn't be surprised if it got chosen as the trigger phrase for a sleeper agent assassin after my life"
Shoot. Have to come up with another one…
How about "So... yeah!"?
Fun Fact: according to the Pokémon Anime, Professor Oak creates the Pokédex because a time traveling Ash Ketchum told a young Oak about the Pokédex, who learned about it because Professor Oak made it. The idea of the Pokédex came from nowhere.
And that is what we call a Bootstrap Paradox. The usual example involves a person in the present giving Shakespeare a copy of one of his works and telling him to publish it. Shakespeare publishes it, it becomes famous, the person in the present gets a copy, and gives it to Shakespeare to publish. The question now becomes, where did the original copy come from?
@@praveenvijeyakumar741 This is why I fucking hate time travel. It’s pretty much what David Xanatos did with the phoenix gate. After all, he is a self-made man, as he likes to quip. Do still love how much of a smug bastard he is. I still can’t understand how it happened or even worked, though. I swear to the gods, I am NEVER writing time travel into my stories.
@@praveenvijeyakumar741 Google it.
Wait, is that canon!?
@@semaj_5022 Nah it's in the Celebi movie
A time travel flick where no one time travels.
Think about it: You and five other people just invented a machine. To test it, you send a cup of soda back in time. You see the soda appear before the test starts, so you know it worked... So you don't do the test. The soda falls in the machine anyways, and you learn the lesson that will hang over you for the rest of the story: whatever time travel affects stays affected. That soda was sent to the past, now nothing you do will prevent it from going into the past.
It eats at you. Keeps you up at night. All it would take is one person to ruin all of time and you cannot change that. Thusly, no one uses it, prompting the estranged founder of the company that hired you to do this, Endsworth and Co., to force you into using it. Before that happens, your buddy Jack shoots the machine up and destroys it, killing everyone who worked on the project in the process. Except for him.
Cut to a news report. The next day. A psychopath by the name of Jack Endsworth murdered all of his coworkers and the founder of the company he works for. The world weeps for the dead, among them a man who curiously shared the name and many features of his murderer... Estranged millionaire founder of Endsworth and Co. Jack Endsworth. Cut to black, roll credits.
I’d watch it.
This is actually pretty good. Might be hard to make into a feature length movie though
Is it ok if I write this at some point (if I ever get to writing)?
The person could physically not put the soda in the machine. The way our brain works is certain things happening at certain time, but another argument is that the brain could adapt to the soda appearing, therefore not doing the test, as the brain is not hard wired and can react to certain stimuli. Without the test taking place, it could create a paradox. Basically, the movie would just be one huge paradox, or not even a movie at all.
Id still watch it though. sounds like an interesting idea.
Harry Potter had safe time travel only until the book which must not be named which peeves me incredibly with its inconsistency
Mali Mäscher shhhhhh cursed child doesn’t exist. It can’t hurt you.
@Michael Martin Me: ...
Me: *sighs* *To the cursed child* You're fine (I guess nkt really) but I have to do this *Gathers all my strength* *Picks up Cursed Child and chucks it out the window.*
Me: It has been done
cursed child is just bad fanfiction, as anyone who's read enough of the stuff could tell you. secret offspring OCs, ruining characterization and the established rules of the universe (like time travel), ignoring the canonical resolution of the story -- there's even a heaping dose of homoromantic subtext between the main protagonists.
It's not inconsistant.
The ministry time turners were only safe after experimenttation from the ministry.
it took them a while to perfect it.
and the time turner in cursed child was a prototype experiment invented by dayifferent people, so wasn't made safe
@Michael Martin yes, and the fact that meeting yourself COULD create a time paradox also proves that the idea of the butterfly effect ISN't inconcistant.
And again.
Different kind of time turner.
Once more, the early history of time travel shows that before the ministry fixed it, you COULD come back to your current [q~"]time from the past.
Third story of Doctor Who: it's impossible to change the past. "Not one line!"
Doctor Who almost immediately: "haha, timeline go brrr"
They made this happen by making the Time Lords quite seriously that - a race of beings who made themselves into what’s effectively gods who can use their intelligent machines to make time do whatever they want it to do.
See due to the nature of Doctor Who that's a theme everything changes nothing stays constant just enjoy what it is
@@plantainsame2049 everything changes to the point of everything staying the same I think is the best way to describe doctor who time logic
@@shadowrosegaming3566 no matter what you do time will keep chugging the problem is will you keep living or will time cut you out
Doctor: History says there was an explosion, and who am I to argue with history?
Rose: Usually first in line.
Time travel: The only trope where both parties die from the other's diseases.
Doomsday book by Connie Willis, can't recommend it enough
This would legit be darkly hilarious, to have a story where someone travels back in time from 2020 to, like, the 1500’s or something. The time traveler dies from Smallpox and starts the spread of COVID 500 years early...
@@Tustin2121 maybe smallpox are Covid, but it was mutated through time traveling until it became smallpox. So the person who had Covid that came to the past was the comic me who started it all
Doctor Who made a storyline out of that in the 60s.
@@Tustin2121 Actually the modern day person would be fine because they would be immune to the diseases from the 1500s
I've always enjoyed the Terry Pratchett method of "Everything just works out"
I’m pretty sure your profile gave that away.. XD
@@ViewingChaos ah, yes, tortilla planet book
I'm a fan of his tiffany aching series
Terry Pratchet good.
It just works
No mention of Mark Twain’s time travel novel, “A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court”?
Dude literally wrote a scene where an electrical wire is used to kill 10,000 knights sent by the Vatican to kill the protagonist and he straight up cooks them like steaks
i know right... Samuel Clemens was the goat
I love that story, or at least the watered down Wishbone novel version, since that's the only one I've been able to read.
I liked the "Kid in King Arthur's court" adaptation by Disney. Everybody: raises eyebrows. Me: yes, yes, I know. It's a guilty pleasure.
Um… I'd like some detail on how this guy developed the various means to produce what it would take to electrocute 10k people to death at all, presumably all at once as they ought to wise up otherwise. In fact not only is there the question of means but of how one manages to get everything just so for that outcome. I have a feeling the details are either absolutely wrong or few details are given at all.
@@robertdicke7249 A bunch of steam-powered dynamos, as I recall.
"I wish people would stop using the nazi alternative dimension so much"
Me who watches rick and morty : "So it really is the default..."
Glad I’m not the only one who thought of that line!
@sluttyMapleSyrup Well, at least you'd think so
I think it's mostly because there's this pervasive belief that "if Hitler had just done this one thing differently his regime would have succeeded". People say this about a million different factors, and each of those factors has wormed its way into fiction as its own "Nazi Dimension".
In reality, Hitler was simply not the brilliant tactician that history hypes him up as. He was arrogant and childish towards his advisors, and he was probably not going to win the war no matter what he did differently.
Whilst you maybe right on that line being a complaint about genre tropes, I always viewed it as a commentary on the shift of real world global politics towards fascism.
I personally TNO though, but yeah, it's overused.
I'm going to say this: if Time Travel rules aren't concrete, it'll be a clusterfuck
We can only theorize how physics works in reality, that doesn’t stop us from using common sense. The same applies to fictional time travel, no mortal could comprehend or prove how it works with certainty, yet a certain level of reliability and safety could be achieved. Absolute statements in 3 or 4 dimensional terms always cause a contradiction. See, I just contradicted myself!
Rabbit Miraculous power in a nutshell
So if it's 2022 and you meet yourself from 2011, the 2022 you before going back knows this will work, you know it works because you already met the current you 11 years ago. As such you need to assume anything you do in the past is what you were always meant to do. This is the same for meeting your future self from 2033. You know anything the you from 2022 and 2033 do is what is meant to happen. "What if you change something?" Well then 2033 you would already know that something changed as the 2033 you already lived that. So if your friend dies in 2022 , but 2033 you stops it he would already know it worked since he's already been alive foe 11 years, therefore wouldn't go back to 2022...yeah it's a cluterfuck.
@Daniel-jk6ve We actually have some slight idea about how time travel would work if it is possible at all. The theory of relativity strongly indicates a theory of time where all points in time exist coequally. The future, present, and past all already are set as to what they can be.
This means that time travel would either work in the form of stable time loops (the first 2 terminator movies) or that traveling to the past and altering events can only alter your own trajectory through time (your source future would still exist, but traveling forward through time would now lead to a different future than the one you left).
It really depends on what 4-dimensional "shape" existence has. If it's like a line, you get stable time loops. If it's any other "shape," you get alterations to your trajectory in 4-dimensional "space" along the axis of time.
Or the theory of relativity could be wrong on this point despite the amount of experimental evidence in favor of its accuracy (we did have to hypothesize dark matter to adjust the predictions of the theory of relativity to match observed effects of gravity on a galactic level, so it might be wrong).
Legends of tomorrow in a nutshell.
"What they did in Harry Potter"
*distant laughing from the Cursed Child authors*
Glazeliights that was the worst time travel plot I’ve ever read
Super Greyflash Im still traumatized by it
Before that book the whole argument of why not use time turners to fix everything did not make sense. It was shown that all events play out exactly as they previously did which makes the use of time turners to save anyone invalid. If you view the series with that consistency than it makes sense why the adults do not use them, as they already know time turners are gimmicks and not ultimate world saving treasures.
Shhh we do not talk about that
It did the least interesting thing possible with time travel
Here's how the next Terminator film should play out:
A Terminator with faulty auditory sensors is given the command (vocally) to destroy John Connor. However, the terminator mishears "John Connor" as "Sean Connery." The terminator goes back in time to the 1970s, when Connery is still playing the role of James Bond, and Connery must imitate the skills of 007 in order to take down his robotic would-be assassin.
I would pay to see that.
Sounds like you have a fanfic to write, friend.
GlowstickOfDestiny
IF SOMEONE CREATES THIS, PLEASE SEND ME A LINK!!!
Wait, so Skynet, this superintelligence, translates the command from his own language (presumably binary machine code) to a human one, then it translates that into mechanical vibrations to be transmitted over a layer of air into the sensors of the terminator, who then translates it back first to english and then to a binary instruction set. Yeah that checks out...
But how did they not notice the faulty sensor to begin with? I tought their ability to do self diagnostic was established canon. The data could even be called "pain".
O.O i didn't know i needed this in my life
One of my favorite time travel systems is in the show “frequency”. There’s no actual traveling, and instead 2 characters communicate with a radio that broadcasts 20 years into the past/future.
There’s a part where the person 20 years in the past has to leave items in secluded areas (buried, in a wall, etc.) for the person 20 years in their future. The overall story isn’t particularly interesting (they try to stop a serial killer from killing their wife/mother), but the premise is a nice alternative to actually traveling through time.
I got several episodes into the show and really enjoyed that concept, but I wish it had more consistency in certain areas. One thing in particular that bugged me (spoilers below):
There’s an episode where both characters are attempting to catch the same guy in different timelines. In the future character’s timeline, she apprehends the guy and gets injured in the process. Then, in the past character’s timeline, he inadvertently causes the guy’s death, causing him to vanish in the future and removing any hope of getting info from him in either timeline. But the future character *still has the injury* from somebody who had been dead for twenty years. So in this timeline, was she just running around chasing nobody in an empty warehouse?
This wouldn’t bug me so much if the story addressed that this was weird (heck, even if it was just handwaved I’d probably lost this moment as a positive rather than a negative) but it’s largely ignored.
I also probably wouldn’t have minded if the two main characters were more likeable, though that’s a more subjective opinion. I didn’t finish the show, so maybe I’m selling it short. I might go back and watch the rest of it one day- there were a lot of things I thought were great!
Booksds
If you really want to get technical, from the future character’s point of view, the changes to the timeline should occur immediately upon ending a transmission, and no other time.
But for the sake of entertainment, it’s more interesting to watch the events play out in parallel.
There is a Korean Crime-Thriller called Signal that plays with this kind of time travel as well. It falters by the end but it is a nice watch.
I liked the movie, but couldn't get past the first episode of the show since started out with the same plot points, only really stretched out.
Maybe I myself have slipped sideways in time because I'm pretty sure that's a movie.
You actually missed one, the recurring loop of events, where either the same or extremely similar events happen in a loop over and over again, with the plot centered around figuring out why the loop is happening and how to stop it. Think Groundhog Day, or Higurashi, or the episode of Supernatural where they're stuck on the same Tuesday and Dean keeps dying in increasingly elaborate and silly ways
"Does this taco taste weird to you?"
Gods, I loved Gabriel. He was such an ass. The perfect Loki.
Zero Escape (specifically the second game, as I haven’t watched the third yet) is a visual novel/puzzle solving game series that handles this in a pretty interesting way
That's technically time travel, sure, but it's established as a separate trope (Time Loop) so I'm not surprised it wasn't included
Also though, I was expecting the "creating an alternate timeline" plot during the whole video and it never showed up. When the protagonist travels to the past and their presence there creates a branching timeline that they then have to live in for the rest of the story. To be fair, I've never seen that in movies, but there's SO much fanfiction with this exact plot.
To me, this comment has been liked for centuries.
YES fucking yes, i am a bloody Time witch@%#
I'm the eye of the storm
But to me, you've been dead for centuries.
@@anakpinguin3942 yes thank you captain obvious... none of us got the reference before you just wrote the original quote..
Is this a reference for something
You know what, i regretted my comment
Red should repost this vid in a week and delete the original to mess with our minds.
Week in the future: sge did this
*she
Yes 👏
what do you mean this video was posted last week
Dont give her ideas
"Why can't we go to the world with all the blimps, for a change?"
And once again, Doctor Who provides
'the umbrella of time travel'
I'm surprised no one made an Umbrella Academy joke yet.
Was that show even on yet when this video aired? 🤔
@@mirjanbouma Umbrella Academy came out in 2019, but this video came out in 2018. This video came before the show. (It’s a good show btw)
@@Gemini-Lion I see, thank you! I agree, it's pretty good.
Best. Superhero. Show. *Ever!!!*
@@Gemini-Lion fwiw, the comics had a short run from ‘07-‘09 and cropped back into frame in ‘18, so that (as well as it being a comic) tracks with it not showing up.
Oddly enough, I think the original Ben10 had a really good "what if?" episode. The protagonist, Ben, wakes up one day as the events of the pilot episode begin to unravel - totally aware of the fact he's back in time and missing the Omnitrix, a watch that let's him turn into aliens. Eventually Ben's grandpa, Max, gains the Omnitrix at the close of the episode, creating a cliffhanger in this universe since Max was supposed to be the bearer of the Omnitrix all along.
The viewer is left wondering how the events of this timeline turn out, since Ben knows how events _should_ turn out, but can't guess how things work out with his grandpa at the wheel.
jameswalker199 they also did that to Grewn with her getting the omnitrix too
@@Phoenix-vf4nd That's the episode they're talking about.
@@Phoenix-vf4nd he left out that part
I’m answering to 1 year old comment other questions about Max he is not ex space cop because he wasn’t space cop in first place and how he gonna accept supernatural and aliens .
@@shadowclaw7210 But he is an ex space cop. He was a member of the Plumbers, which were basically just the space police. Granted, they were more of a secret organization in the original series, but in Alien Force onwards, they were space cops.
"Having a casual conversation with Charlemagne isn't going to butterfly effect you into never being born"
It might, he's my ancestor on both sides!
(Charlemagne the Great...Charles the Great the Great. Okay.)
@Super Greyflash Excellent advice! I think I'd just ask him about his sword...it's a safe topic don't you think?
He's just that great
@@snbeast9545 True
Charlemagne Carolus Magnus the Great "der Große", King of the Franks. Because you can never be too great in the medieval period.
isn't it "Charles the magnificent," not "the great"?
I feel doctor who can sometimes make the time machine's weirdness work from the perspective of the TARDIS being an old, janky car you stole forever ago
Also the car has a will of its own
@@Gloomdrake yeah old cars are like that
Ah, one of my favorite JL:U episodes.
Terry: "Batman, Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne, Batman. Or have you met?"
Bruce & Batman: "Not now!"
Terry: "Great. What did they use to call it it, stereo?"
Yo who else is watching this in 2021?
Ditto fam
Pfft I'm in 2036 shit I'm old.
Hush, you! We've been told not to mess with this one.
Is Kanye president?
@@l.tc.5032 wouldn't that make you young?
Can we talk about how Red has a trope she does with Trope Talk? "So Yeah" finishes every single episode, even the one where she wasn't even there for almost the entire thing and blue did the episode, she still came in and said it and kept the trope going
I am half tempted to make a joking Parody of Trope Talk about Red and include "So Yeah"
Not really a trope itself. "Sooo yeah," isn't something commonly used in media to achieve an effect. Now it IS an example of a trope, depending on how you take it. Maybe a Catchphrase or a Running Gag, possibly a Verbal Tic. I'm sure there's something even more befitting but I'm worried if I start browsing TV Tropes for it, I'm gonna forget to eat for a week again.
@@TheAwakeOrangutang yeah, try not to forget that
And i guess reoccurring gag is a better fit but I kinda liked seeing a little tie in with the theme of tropes, i Might decide to make a video of my own with tropes anyways and try to work it in somehow, idk
So basically a Signing Off Catchphrase?
I'm amazed Steins:Gate wasn't brought up since it's an excellent example of a time travel narrative that has harder rules, follows them, and still tells an engaging story
This
“Otherwise my plan to subliminally brainwash a generation of authors into writing stories that are tailor-made to appeal to me specifically will never get off the ground!”
To be fair, your taste in stories is (at least in my opinion) pretty damn good.
Mu haha! The plan is moving forward perfectly!
I feel like The Cursed Child deserves an honorary mention for time travel plots done poorly. The established time travel cannon is thrown out the window, the time travel has no lasting consequences, because the characters fix all of the changes they made to history, and there doesn't even seem to be any character development.
I second this.
Doesn't help that it was glorified fanfic, AND a time travel story.
@ while Rowling's name is in big bold letters on the cover of the published script, she actually had two co-writers. Based on the writing style, it seems like Rowling had limited involvement in the process. The play also uses many Harry Potter fanfiction stock plot lines like multiyear time travel. The play also plays fast and lose with the established cannon.
@@patrickfrost9405 There is some genuinely good Harry Potter fanfiction out there, but The Cursed Child comes off as mediocre fanfiction at best.
Not to mention all of the wasted potential, like Harry's kid resented living in the shadow of his father, seen as this great hero for destroying Voldemort and figures that his life must have been perfect and nothing is done to show him just how wrong he was about that. They could have show them that Harry had quite a hard time of things at his age. Harry's parents were murdered by Voldemort, his chosen godfather was framed for selling them out and he lived with the Dursleys because of that, Gryffindor was for losers, Malfoy and his mooks picked on him, being targeted by Voldemort and his Death Eaters, was resented for getting into the Tri Wizard tournament by many students, was made a fugitive and forced to flee from the corrupt Ministry of Magic and died (but came back) facing Voldemort. There were golden opportunities to show him he was wrong to help him develop as a character but they were squandered.
Elien Shadeslayer please be respectful of others opinions
You forgot to mention the Groundhog Day plot. Basically the plot where time keeps repeating and the protagonist usually needs to figure out what is going on.
I love this one. Xena the warrior princess had an episode like this and Rascal Does not dream of bunny girl senpai had one as well. But it always bugged me how the characters always try to fix the time-loop as soon as possible instead of acquring knowledge with infinite resources(time).
Another good one. Supernatural had a plot like that in one episode. It was funny seeing all the ways Dean dies and just how absolutely DONE Sam is halfway through. He's lived the same day hundreds and hundreds of times to the point where literally every single detail about the town, the people, the objects, every single second is etched into his memory, and he just casually performs tasks like catching a plate because it's just become a reflex.
It was superbly written, and extremely hilarious.
I tried to go back in time,to where I asked this first....back to drawing board.
SG1 when they create a time loop......... Best episode ever
i dont know if that counts as time travel since reliving the same day is most likely not a characters choice (if something horrible like the episode in SPN happened) or if it's the best day of their lives. but you're not really traveling in time but rather staying still until you find the cause of it and how it came to be. personally, i don't count it as time-travel since the word itself implies that you travel, so you go from different time periods, and when time keeps repeating you don't go anywhere new or really alternate any events if it's the same over and over again.
One thing I will say about Time Travel: when introduced into a setting that didn't have it in the first place, it becomes problematic enough for a storyline that the story just begins to unravel like a 60-year old yarn ball.
In short, in my personal opinion, it's best to ONLY use time travel when your setting can support it, and has rigid enough rules for how it works (with wiggle room to provide stakes).
So not miraculous ladybug
Something I find hilarious is that Star Trek has the opposite problem… its setting can totally support time travel, so they put it in and make rules for it… and then they do it again. And again. Which leads to the Star Trek multiverse having probably over a dozen different methods of time travel at this point that all function differently from each other.
THANK YOU. This is a pitfall that is, absurdly, becoming more and more common! It's also true about vampires (Really, David Weber?), alternate realities, and vaguely-defined quasi-magical powers.
I just realized: the characters of her Canon/Au picture example kinda resemble parts of the main cast of her webcomic, Aurora. Neat.
Whoa... I KNEW there was something familiar about them!
I was thinking of that episode of Futurama where fry goes back in time on accident, kills his grandpa on accident, and accidentally becomes his own grandpa
We don’t talk about that.
He did do the nasty in the past-y.
To me, time travel can be both the best or the worst plot device in movies and video games. They can be so satisfying when you have the normal or even boring things have huge impacts on the world and it’s characters. But it can also really mess with a story with either vague uses of time travel or using it to such a degree it overshadows the rest of the plot and makes it overly convoluted. Just an opinion so whatever
Also video games tha exploit time travel well are the best
Two words: Ghost Trick. It's a very strict set of rules, but they do wonderful things with it
That or all events can get deus ex machina by it
Ralph Ize its
@@TidusplZUO I think you misspelled Steins;Gate
czcams.com/video/GxEmyN8fPSE/video.html
(Seriously, and no offense to Ghost Trick, even if you don't normally watch anime, watch Steins;Gate.)
I think my favorite type of time travel plot is the “nothing noticeable can be changed, but as long as everyone thinks it’s played out the same, you can make whatever changes you want” type. I think I prefer this when it’s not a stable loop and the characters have to force it to seem like the same events happen, but trying to manipulate the true events to work in your favor can be fun too.
(Spoiler warning for a time travel anime)
I think Steins;Gate is my favorite example of this. I really love how that whole plot arc happened. The stakes were super high despite it basically being a “set everything back to normal” loop.
Sam: "I thought you said there weren't any fish in your pond."
Jack: "Eh. Close enough."
"Charlemagne the Great"
"Charle der dicke der dicke"
"Charles the Great the Great
Karl not not Charles, Charles already had a le added to it from Charlemagne.
He's just that great.
Awww. You didn’t talk about timeloops! Groundhog Day ftw.
THat's prety much it's own trope dude. Related to TT, but not quite the same.
I hope it gets it's own episode one day
That and Re:Zero, but yeah, that’s basically it’s own trope
The time loop I kept thinking of was the Bites the Dust arc in DiU
The ones I always think about are Next Ben's "Cause and effect", Stargate's"Window of opportunity" and 12:01pm
Have you ever noticed how certain understandings of time travel come in and out of fashion? The 2000s were *the* decade of the closed time loop (Timecrimes, Blink, Lost, Harry Potter), but now most new fiction scoffs at that, says "time is a river," and happily indulges alternate timelines.
1632 series (Eric Flint), Lest Darkness Fall (Sprague de Camp) and the Crossover series (Walt Socha)
There is also the Emperor's Men (WW1 Germans in 370 AD Rome)
It's weird, too, because I don't knot that it was done to death or anything like zombies were/are. So it's not really that we got exhausted with it. We just kinda don't anymore. Or at least not as often.
@@TerenceClark There were at least two contributing factors:
1. The 2000s saw a big vogue for string theory.
2. The 2000s saw a big vogue for anti-heroes, and the closed time loop is very conducive to stories where the protagonists are horrified (or at least surprised) to discover that they are responsible for everything that's happened, which you can only do so much of before it gets old.
@@SamAronow Fair enough. Was there really a string theory trend? I'm deeply into pop sci and science communication content, so I'm exposed to that sort of thing with some regularity. But I never really got the sense string theory had much air time beyond science geeks. I could totally be wrong, though.
@@TerenceClark For a time in the mid-2000s there was no getting away from Brian Greene.
Consider this concept: If your story is set in the past (medieval times, the civil war, etc), have your protagonist time travel to when you're writing the story and meet you, so you can drop some intense foreshadowing and freak the readers out. I've never seen this done before, so it would be unique and spawn several theories.
Okay, I don't usually like fourth wall breaks, but this is some goddamn high IQ level play here!!!
This isn’t what you’re talking about, but the Demons of Aslan books plays around with this idea in a meta way. It’s a pretty standard isekai where a kid accidentally astrally projects himself halfway across the multiverse. There, a bunch of wizards mistakes him for a demon, cuts his connection to home (killing him), and binds him as a slave, inadvertently turning him into an actual demon. Now, the story itself doesn’t have what you’re mentioning, but the forum of the website that the author runs has someone role playing as one of the characters in the story (it’s probably the author, but it’s fun). The demon Tizzy says that the story isn’t actually the author’s idea, but a historical account of events that happened across several worlds and galaxies.
"ugh brain pain"
"Time travel does that."
Amazing line
Have you ever thought to yourself, "Hm my narrative is way to simple?" Just add *Time Travel!*
Have you ever thought to yourself, "Hm my narrative is way too complicated?" Just remove *Time Travel*
There goes your continuity!
"That's a lotta damage!"
Ah, a fellow Homestuck fan.
I have, but then I came back from the future and told myself to forget about it.
Well, you have already added the obligatory Love Triangle that ALL stories need. And if you are having issues, you've probably added like twenty love triangles already... making a love dodecahedron structure--the most strongest structure should make for the most strongest story ever!
1:30
Doc: 'There's that word again. "Meme." Why are things so cringy in the future? Is there a problem with society's sense humor?'
Marty: ' You have no idea Doc.'
Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Doc. Ah... Are you telling me that you built a fanbase... out of a Meme?
The way I see it, if you're gonna build a fanbase, why not do it with some *EXTRA THIC-ness?*
The Dashingsaint AKU!
"Huh? My watch isn't working... That's strange. I just wound it." - Mayushi
Oh no, I just wound you...don't tell me you're broken...so not fair. I took extra good care of you and everything...
Oh no
Why does this feel
Familiar.....
I love how Terminator did it originally, with a self-consistent Timeline that can’t really be altered.
That's the thing.... It didn't do that.
(At least not for very long)
Terminator 1:
'Characters assume they can change the past, end up in a stable loop. Write a letter to assure the loop happens, roll credits (despite the existence of this letter is implicitly denied earlier on)' core storyline: 'a thriller story-line that happens to use timetravel, depicting a (likely) bootstrap-paradox in the process'
Terminator 2:
'Characters assume they can't change the past, based on the events of part 1. Learn not to accept that outcome and succeed in changing the future.'
core storyline: 'a story explicitly about learning to 'change what you can't accept., using the (like most, not nessesarily) bootstrap-paradox of the first movie, as a means to make the initial (to overcome) acceptance of inevitability,' less 'token' than it usually is in the large number of stories with the exact same moral/lesson'
Terminator 3: 'a team of 3 heroes, (at least) 2 of which are aware of the events of part 2 and by extention, that time can be changed. they set out to change even more.... or so 2 of the 3 think. One of the ones that should be aware of the succesful change in part 2, sets out to secure the original timeline, as change is impossible *facepalm*. The other 2 end up accepting this 'twist ending' as they accept (despite having seen the contrary), changing the future is in fact impossible *facepalm*. roll credits'
core-storyline: not a clue.... we'd like some more money out of this franchise I guess
Terminator 4: no idea, given the 'breaks every attempt at a premise'-ending of the previous one... I didn't bother watching
Terminator 5:.... see 4. + It was widely publicised that it sucked
@@user-jn4sw3iw4h here’s the thing with terminator 3 that everyone seems to forget. It follows the established timeline. Sky net goes live and attempts to destroy the world, and would have done so regardless of the impact of the new Terminator. It ends on judgement day happening and John Connor accepting his role as the leader of the resistance, which is exactly what Terminator 1 said would happen.
If anything the outlier is Terminator 2 which ends with them supposedly stopping judgement day. We all think they have, regardless of the fact that this contradicts the time loop set up in the previous film. T3 is a downer because it undercuts the happy ending of T2, but it’s not actually breaking the timeline, it’s reaffirming the contradiction of T2.
This is not meant as a dig at T2, I love that movie. But I also like T3 and I’m seeing a bunch of stuff bashing it which are factually inaccurate.
@@intergalactic92 That's the thing:
It followes the 'suggested' timeline, and plays it like a 'set in stone' one.
By itself a fine move.
People going around assuming the past can be changed, only to ultimately discover that it can't, *can be* a good twist, without ruining the movie.
It's commonly accepted that T1 is an example of that.
and _as a standalone film_ I _would_ agree with you that T3 is another.
see also:
12 monkeys (probably all 3 versions, I've only seen 1)
(arguably: Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time)
Dexter's ego trip
However:
- T2 isn't wrong for depicting time as maliable, as 'time is a closed loop' is an understandable reading of the events of T1 (and at that time, the intended reading), but by no means the only way that timeline can happen. (Kyle Reese himself has outright stated he 'volunteered' for the mission to save Sarah, based on her photo. John's explicit order is not required for the loop to be created, perhaps to maintain it, but the bootstrap-paradox (the one thing that *could require* a fixed timeline) , straight up isn't there)
- as far as I can tell T3 doesn't have that 'there are multiple possible readings'-possibility to fall back on.
while it is by itself a decent film: It is created in a world where T2 exists/happened
I liked watching it, but I'm not going to deny:
- John lived through the events of T2, has seen what believing in a fixed timeline can do to you, and why it is a bad idea to believe in it. Also that it is simply, not true.
- T-850 has been programmed with what John has told Kate
- T-850 acted on the premise the timeline is fixed and in the final scene John accepted this.
I don't see any other explanation than a plot-hole (or, by later 'democratic-decision', declaring T2 a plot-hole)
Other than that 1 issue ,which doesn't ruin the film,
I mainly just don't see where to go from there. Or rather, I see options, none of which interest me.
The way I see it:
T1: a good 'slasher' with a (presumed) fixed-timeline twist. Which can serve as a decent one-off story, continuing this story in an interesting way, will take some serious work.
T2: a good 'deal with the situation you're in'-movie, that actually does the work required given the ending of T1. From here you could go in several different directions, including ending it right there.
T3: a decent 'more action than thriller' re-thread of T1. Including the (debunked by the events, *and core premis* of T2) predestination-ending. Hinting at more sequels coming, but leaving basically only 'action-movies, set in a fixed-timeline' as options.
T4: didn't watch as the ending of T3 basically stated it would suck, from what i've heard, T3 predicted this correctly.
(how did 'average human nobody' John Connor, become 'leader of human resistance'.... the rest died, please come back to watch T5... where we'll show the already spelled out 'race to the last time-machine' which will end up in a tie and the 2 winners (T-800 and Kyle) will not change anything)
T5+: realise they've written themselves into a corner (or rather, wrote a story that ended several movies before) and just go wibbley-wobbelly, lets hope we can squeeze a non-terrible action-scene out of the brand recognition.
I forsee people coming back to this video because of Avengers Endgame. Am I not wrong?
i wanted to say the same thing but was worried about spoiling it for others
This is literally the main reason that I'm watching this =(
dammnit you spoiled the movie for me. although that was spoiled a long time ago so /shrug i guess
Iron Revenant. I see this as an absolute win.
Yeah... it amused me how many people could not follow the time travel part there, despite being pretty simple and coherent. Admittedly the explanation was worded really badly for comedy's sake.
Maybe I'm just a rabid Prince of Persia fanboy, and way too deep in different time travel mechanics ever since, so I followed no sweat.
Anyhow, see Source Code for Mysterio going deeper into a well explained version of that time travel. But don't go Donnie Darko... cult classic with Jake Gyllenhaal, but makes my brain hurt, and different rules anyway.
Imagine if someone had actually travelled back in time after watching a different version of this video to warn authors of time travel stories of the pros and cons of the trope, only for those authors to create other stories which inspired this video.
The background music is Shostakovich's Jazz Suite No. 2 in C Minor Waltz No. 2
THANK YOU GREAT SIR !
It and the wibbly wobbly timy whimy nature of how it was looped made someone who knew when the peice should end a little batty.
Thank you, I couldn't remember!
"The sound of thunder" by ray bradburry is a great story about destroying your timeline by doing something small (like stepping on a butterfly)
A literal Butterfly Effect.
In Fire Emblem Awakening, they even turned the 'safe' spectrum of the way they treated the flow of time into a bad thing to the protagonists, where the time traveling person tried to prevent the death of someone, but this person's death happened regardless of the attempts, all it changed was the how or when, but it happened anyways, which was one of the things guiding everything to the bleak future the protagonist were trying to prevent.
Time itself became a antagonist force because of how hard to change it.
rafagames do you not consider the extra characters canon? Because that’s not quite the case.
(Spoilers for Disney+ "What If" Episode 3)
That also happens in Marvel Studios' "What If" Episode 3. In that case, Steven Strange's love interest (Christine) dies, instead of him losing his hands, and then he tries to save her which doesn't work out.
I can’t remember what story, but I remember there was time travel, and certain events would almost always happen, and the only way to change it would be to completely change the course of history by going way back in time.
Coincidentally the earliest I've ever been to a new upload is a video about time travel
You traveled back before the video began to be as early as possible.
I feel dirty and wrong that when I saw “mentally project into someone from a historical event/era”, my first thought was for some reason....Joshua and the Promised Land, which yes I only know from the Saberspark video(s). Why, brain? Why did you do that to me?
NO! Noooooo!
With all these amazing comments you can literally write a story with the internet server except it’s a specific paradox where people are interacting internet to internet from different points in times and alternate universes
I think the 'time travel' in RE: Zero is pretty solid. The main guy can only go back in time (triggered whenever he dies) and is often just trying to avoid the event that lead to his death. While the point he gets sent back to is completely arbitrary, the mechanic also explores the side of time travel where he goes to a point where the friends he's made don't know who he is. The anime isn't perfect, but that plot point alone has been worth the price of admission for me.
That would be known as a "Time Loop", which might as well be it's own Trope separate from Time Travel
It's not a closed loop though, since he can (and each time eventually does) alter the events that lead to his death so that his personal timeline progresses a bit farther. The "arbitrary save point" thing is highly problematic though, since he sometimes loses a bunch of progress off a given death and has to dodge more events and alter relationships at different points in the next playthrough. And yes, very videogame-y.
@@lykillcorreli6740 Personally, I treat time loops as a sub-genre of the whole time travel thing.
@@richmcgee434 honestly I love video gamey time travel/anime sooooo
*Furiously types into search bar*
But seriously I do love game centered mechanics in movies and shows like that where only one person knows what's happening and has to do a save point
Bruh do you even Stein's gate
"This is how they treat time turners in HP" oh how foolish we were...
It's not really that difficult, what you however need to do is pick one and stick to it. Either time is loopy or it's streamy, or it's wibbly wobbly timey wimey. Dr who is interesting since it implies there are multiple dimensions of time not just the one which means time simply isn't linear.
Hello future me
Overly sarcastic productions and
Terrible writing advice
Working together for a love triangle episode.
This would be awesome
That was the best episode either channel ever uploaded.
I never knew I really wanted this
I would love to see that.
God, I've seriously read the love triangle part with Baubien's voice
It would probably be red getting exasperated over the terrible advice
I have one rule for time travel in the stories that I write:
*_D O N ‘ T !_*
Same, but i tend to have that rule for any story i write,
i dont like writing
Epicmonk117 IFYOUDOITTHEWHOLEWORLDSGONNAENDDONT
Or if you _have to_ do it, come up with more than one reason to go back.
If you went back in time to kill hitler, then his death would ripple forward in the timeline. Eventually it would hit the moment you traveled back, except you didn't, because he was already dead, so you were assassinating a dead man, except you weren't, because you never went back in time to kill him, so he didn't die. However, if you went back to kill him & buy some flowers afterwards, then you would still go back in time in the instance where he was dead, protecting the timeline.
@@dysfunctionalcaterpillar790 that makes virtually no sense
@@JayJay-kq8ol I think it means, like for instance, you went back in time to steal government files and (in the process) had to kill a major government official. You may have heard about the officials death beforehand, and either thought it was safe to kill them (since they already die) or realized later on “oh I did that”
This just makes it more complicated, adding that you had planned to kill the official in an alternate timeline, as well as steal the files. And that killing the official resulted in your timeline.
The way @Dysfunctional Caterpillar explained it was weird because the two reasons didn’t correlate.
Why would you go back in time to buy flowers??
Does that make more sense?
Plot Idea: The antagonist was accidentally sent hundreds of years into the future and is desperately trying to return to the past.
But the problem is that the disappearance the antagonist is a crucial event in the timeline and changing it in any way will radically change the future, effectively erasing the current timeline (along with everyone within it) from existence.
It’s now up to the protagonist to stop the antagonist from returning to the past and undoing the future.
(And yes, this is basically just role-reversed Samurai Jack, lol)
I like how it is done in ReZero, it only works backwards, it activates when the mc dies (And he doesnt like to die), it is always changing what happened, and the mc doesnt get to choose in which moment he ends, the moment kinda chooses itself, sometimes he has a lot of time to fix something, sometimes he doesnt, and sometimes he are screwed because he cant go back far enough to fix something. The stakes dont feel low since he cant change things easily, not because it is bad for the timeline or something like that, but because the main character is quite weak compared to almost everyone else in the setting, so he has to be very smart about things.
I love the concept of time travel in Steins;Gate, it's probably the best version of time travel I've seen in anything and the anime does a fantastic job of handling it. I love the concept of multiple world lines or timelines existing at once, and if you go back in time and change the past you don't erase the future you came from, you just shift onto a new world line or timeline as a result of you changing the past. The old timeline from which you originate is still out there but you'd have to undo everything you did to change the past in order to return to your original timeline. People who like time travel stuff and haven't watched Steins;Gate I cannot recommend it enough.
El Psy Congroo 1.048596
I was going to make basically the same comment as you, but you did it for me. To second it, watch Steins;Gate, people.
In Steins Gate, only one Timeline exists at the same time.
While I love the series, I strongly disagree with your assessment of the time travel in it. Using the lingo in the video, it falls in a comfortable middle position between committing to chaotic butterfly effects and having a static timeline. As is also pointed out in the video, there are plenty of stories out there with either one or the other, and both are more creatively demanding than a mix, because you have more established rules to abide. Steins;Gate is a lot softer (and in my mind therefore not as interesting from a time travel perspective - my enjoyment comes from the character drama and romance aspects which only use the time travel as a backdrop) in that it has different timelines, but only a vague explanation for why there seems to be an extremely small number of them, as in, there are some "major" events which seem to be cosmically important for no discernible reason and are harder to influence etc. The fate of a certain character comes to mind. The "explanation" for this actually puts it a lot closer to the rigid timeline alternative than the infinite timelines one, I think. You know, with "prime" timelines and all that, and how small changes aren't enough to move you into another such timeline. And then we're not even touching on the weirdness that is the basis for the movie :P
Like I said, I love Steins;Gate, and would recommend it to anyone. But I cannot with a straight face call the time travel mechanics remarkable in any way. For that, watch Primer. If you're up for multiple viewings and a thorough mindfuck that is
That wasn't how I interpreted it but I could be wrong.
My favorite use of time travel is in the manga Orange because it is used in a way that doesn’t create any paradoxes and keeps it realistic. So essentially, in the first timeline one of the characters commit suicide so his friends got together and sent a letter to themselves in the past. This never changes the fact that that character commit suicide in the first timeline but it comforts them knowing in some other world that he was saved.
Actualy the time travel there is not time travel comes out of nowhere and makes no sense
But God I loved that manga to piece
Another great and somewhat similar one is "can you hear me?"
Serena Odonata Thank you for the recommendation :)
@@Carbon_Crow ^^ your welcome
Gargoyles has the best quote in regards to Stable Time Loops.
Goliath: "If I didn't fear the damage you would do to the timestream, I'd gladly leave you here."
Xanatos: "But you won't, because you didn't. Time travel's funny that way."
I remember coming accross a time travel book from 1861 from France. It was called Paris avant les hommes and written by a geologist called Boitard. The story was that a devil with a limp (I think he was called Asmodé or Asphodel?) travelled with him back in time on a comet. From there it was all descriptions of prehistoric life from the region as if Boitard had seen it himself, including prehistoric apemen (still rather controversial at the time). We've come quite a long way since that xD
In the canon/au picture at 9:46, I like how the only difference is to the guy with a tail is that he has a slightly angrier expression and a different shirt.
I can assure you that is not the only difference.
If only homestuck had a mention. That one has so many timeloops, sideways travelling, universe-spanning time travel, god. A really deserving time travel story.
hydrator the almighty I feel like if this channel knew about Homestuck it would be brought up in more than just this video, due the weird and unique ways it handles a lot of the tropes they’ve discussed
"Why can't we see an AU with all the blimps and stuff?"
I will say, the TV show "Fringe" did that
I've never seen anything from the Terminator franchise but does Skynet just... assume that only John Connor would lead a rebellion? Surely if an evil AI took over the world, there'd be multiple people willing to fight to stop it. If John DID die or if he were never born, the future might still suck, but there'd probably be another rebel leader in his place.
I don’t think it matters if the characters realize this when the scriptwriter probably didn’t care considering it was a cheesy action movie for teens. Your point did make me laugh though.
It could just be computer logic doing its thing and making assumptions that any sane human would reject. OR it could be that Joh Connor specifically has the right combinations of skills, gumption and timing/placement to allow him to rally the remnants of humanity to fight off Skynet. If he is gone, sure someone might take his place, but they may not be nearly as effective as John is/was.
What about the holy grail of all fanfiction time travel? Our Hero is mentally sent back in time to their younger self with no way back to their own time, and therefore can do anything they want to the timeline because they're not going back to the future. That's my favorite iteration of time travel, but not common outside of fanfiction because it usually features characters that were either very very minor or it erases what's already been shown in the series.
Try chinese novels called wuxia and xianxia. There it happens so often that it's hard to find one without (And with different variations too; sometimes instead of dying they are transferred back into their young self with all their memories, sometimes they're simply reborn with their memories, and sometimes they are reborn (far) in the past with their memories).
@@deepseafish257 Thanks, I will check those out. They seem like a good read. Any translation recommendations?
@@amberdent651 try time.travel () on royalroad. It's is not chinese , but a quality fanfic
@@amberdent651 oh, and mother of learning. Imagine the time travel story if Harry potter, but I stead of a time Turner it's groundhog day time travel, also great quality
It's called the Peggy Sue btw :3
It's not related to any of the Mary Sue troop don't worry, it got the name from a movie based on the same concept.
I love the concept of it, but I like the Future hero gets a new identity in the past variant since we can explore several interesting plot points such as ; does the hero disappear if they mess with the timeline and what does it mean? Is it good or bad if they went back in time to prevent something in the first place? What do they do with their past selves? Do they see them as them or do they see them as someone else? It's fascinating to think about it. I also love it if the character has a bad past and a future character (either their own future selves or a close friends of their future selves) adopts them. It's really good
(I'm a nerd lol)
"What ever you do time cannot be changed"
Unless you're a DC villain who always seems to get away with their bs while heroes can't.
Good to see I'm not the only bugged by Barry and Thawne's paradoxical origin story.
So I'm actually rewatching these and I'm really enjoying thinking about how "Tenet" relates to all of this
“Why can’t we go to the world with all the blimps for a change”
I laughed at that, being someone who is both quite a big doctor who fan, and has recently started reading Philip Pullman’s “The Golden Compass (His Dark Materials)”. Doctor who’s story “The rise of the cybermen/Age of steel”, notably features, among other things: Cybermen and Zeppelins as a major mode of transport. Then The Golden Compass’s world, features among many _many _*_many_* far more major differences: Zeppelins as a major mode of transport.
So Idk if I’ve just been enjoying unusually good alternate world stories (and both of these are _bloody _*_amazing)_* but I can think of two blimp worlds off the top of my head.
Ah, right, I remember reading that trilogy earlier this year. Well, actually, I read the first book the year before that, but I got bored and didn't want to continue. I'm glad I finally did, the third book is pretty damn amazing. I also watch the first season of the show, which had some neat changes, but also really questionnable ones. Might bother with season 2 some day.
There’s also Homestuck, which for the most part has relatively strict rules and goes for the stable time loop rules, then decides a simple stable paradox or two is for newbies and creates a stable time gordian knot with occasional loose threads that are self terminated because they don’t self-knot. Perhaps the best argument against the idea that having strict rules prevents creativity.
Yoss someone who is talking about hs instead of steins gate
Even though i LOVE both
In Homestuck, there is only 1 canon timeline, called the Alpha, and it is a static timeline. However, it also has alternate timelines, called Betas. Time travellers from both the Alpha or any of the Betas can go back and change stuff, which eventually makes the Alpha timeline happen as it already was meant to. The only caveat is Beta travellers are guarenteed to die as a result.
It's really not too confusing.
@@liamwhite3522Until John got the ability to change the alpha timeline
@@liamwhite3522 actually, bad timelines are called doomed timelines. You're mixing up the alpha timeline with the alpha universe (the post-scratch stuff). But yeah, basically all of that until John's stupid retcon nonsense.
The retcon power goes further beyond timelines, it's literally taking control of the narrative of paradox-space. It goes into the power of the author. BUT, even taking that into consideration, the retcon powers only allow so to change so much stuff, it allows John to go beyond the Scratch and the Sburb session itself, but all his actions are to correct a mistake and preserve the Alpha timeline, everything he changes he does because that's what was supposed to happen in the Alpha. Everything in the universe is stuck because of the granfather paradox that Lil'Cal is. The alpha timeline needs to breed Lord English, and for that all the kids must survive to fight him so what happens with the puppets take place.
The only thing that Homestuck and Paradox Space in general uses to sort of screw with the time-space duality is what happens in The furthest ring, and even then that's still not free from the narrative and the integrity of the Alpha timeline. It's because of Lil'cal's possessed body falls down from The furthest ring into Dream Dave's self that all the other stuff happens in the story.
"The most famous example is-"
Oh boy here comes Star Trek
"-Flashpoint"
:(
Look what you did, Barry
Fear not, Eddache has you covered
I too was surprised that "City on the Edge of Forever" was not used as the example there, especially since what I understand of Flashpoint is that it's basically trying to mimic how good that was.
So how does Barry saving his mom lead to all that?
At 9:40, you can see the band from Red's Aurora webcomic. There's Erin, Kendal, and Alinua--pretty easy to make out. I'm almost positive that the Ferin (Falst, I think?) is there too--no surprises, he's definitely going to join the band. The eyepatch lady shows up in skethces--I'm not surprised she's going to join the band, either, she definitely has the design of a main character. And is the person on the far right the Collector? Is SHE going to join the main band? AAAAHHHH I can't wait for more Aurora!
With knowledge of the future, “Eyepatch lady” is actually a guy, and his name is Dainix
"Deus et machina." Beautiful. Perfect. Thank you.
Red: messing with the future can’t effect the past
Q: hold my beer
Nice concept tbh
*causes time machine*
This was AWESOME!
Can you please do a Trope Talk on Steampunk. I'd love to see how you break that down.
The issue with that is that steampunk's not a genre nor even something with universal tropes surrounding it, their is no wrong or right way too write it because ultimately, it's an ascetic, and it can be literally used in any way.
when I watched flashpoint, I was like "Wait, the whole DC Universe relies on Flash's mom getting killed?"
It's really stupid, isn't it?
Still don't know how the butterfly effect works in that scenario, but then time travel gives me a headache...
The say I saw it, Nora's death wasn't really the hinge, but because the Flash broke time the timeline splintered up and downstream. Ripples, basically. You throw a rock into a lake and the ripples propagate all around, not in one direction.
maybe you should read the comic or listen to what reverse flash says at the end of the movie.
If I remember right, it was less Barry saving his mom, and more time travelling itself can sends ripples/damage the space-time continuum. That said, Barry's origin story's always been weird AF, because Reverse Flash was the one who murdered Mrs Allen and he's a time traveller too. Why didn't the Speed Force/universe/whatever punish him for his time travelling bullshit?!
My favorite time travel stories are the ones where a whole town gets sent back in time at random with no way back. Like the Ring of Fire series by Eric Flint (RIP to a legend) and the Islands in the Sea of Time series by S.M. Stirling. I'd love to hear you talk about stuff like that. ❤
Me: Yo this campfire thing is exactly what I need!
> Sees price tag even with sale
Me: I can use google docs.
Nah mate!
That's really good for software. I checked out the link because I was expecting like, $70 or even $200 because of how BS software companies are.
But $40? That's a bargain.
I've been using a slightly different software package, but it's aimed at producing manuscripts (mainly for movies or theater) but also books and novels. Scrivener. I could see Campfire pairing really well with Scrivener. Campfire for pre-writing, Scrivener for manuscript production using output from Campfire.
"unless Aku, the shape-shifting master of darkness keeps destroying your portals" xD
Love your videos! They're amazing!
My favorite means of time travel was in Steins;Gate with the phone wave. I like the idea of rather than travelling back in time and potentially running your former self, only your mind/consciousness travels back, and it just lands back in the version of you that was around in that time. Of course that means you can't really travel that far forward or back tho.
Yes.
I love the mental projection time travel idea. If a character jumps into their past forms its a thousand times harder for them to play pretend as their past selves while trying to change everything. Its a lot cooler when someone who's changed their paths (example evil to good) will have an insane time trying to live in the past versions body
I feel like that's made even better by the fact that they know about what motivated them at the time, it can be a really interesting way to make a character look at what they did and why. (Something lacking when you project yourself into the future)
on the spectrum of time travel safety would homestuck just be in a little box below the spectrum that says "all of the above"
We do not talk about time travel in homestuck
i don't know i didn't have a constitution strong enough to last past the first act
Homestuck has 3 types of time travel and 2 types of timeline. Either it's A: a traveler from the real timeline doing a stable loop, B: a traveler from the real timeline doing an unstable jump, dying as a result, or C: a traveler from another timeline doing a unstable jump to stabilize the real timeline, and dying as a result.
@@riolufistofmight we do not talk about homestuck.
It is fractal time travel.
"Why can't we go to the world with all the blimps for a change?"
Not only does that already have its own TV Tropes page, you literally included it with your footage of Rise of the Cybermen. Twice.
One thing that’s often overlooked in time travel is that going forward in time could kill very quickly because you aren’t immune to the current virus and other things in the air were going back in time could kill everyone else because things on the past aren’t immune to any such diseases you bring with you
a sound of thunder by ray bradbury is an underrated example of "dangerous" time travel imo. quite an early example but very interesting.
6:36 That was essentially Time Warp Trio. I loved those books/cartoons as a kid. While they mostly played it safe in terms of time travel consequences in the books, the cartoon did occasionally introduce more risk by having the boys accidentally threaten the timeline, like accidentally giving Napoleon the means to win the battle of Waterloo or writing their own great great granddaughters out of existence.
I remember reading one of the books… it was Greek mythology based
I really recommend Steins Gate if you haven't seen it. It's one of the best anime and I think you would like it if you want a serious time travel anime.
Fantastic story
it's a good anime, but not a "serious time travel anime".
for story it's good, but it's time travel theory is not strict enough, it's a soft-scifi system like Back to the future.
You should read the VN for a lot more detail and exposition on the time machine.
@@hirokokueh3541 so you didn't understand that acording to the series time kinda relative but also conservative, not all actions have terrible consequences but all choices can and will cause minor to big changes, it dwelves nd explains mmany tropes of time travel, moving forward, backwards, sideways, even diagonaly, how the mind and perspective changes timelines, there is some back to the future stuff with one of the characters, explores time loops breaks time loops, the concept of convergency and divergency numbers show that yes changing time is dangerous but is also harder than it seems it isn't just predicting the lottery but also making sure chaos theory and butterfly effect doesn't make you or someone miss the numbers, that the further you dive into time travel the crazyer it gets, that anyone can learn how to understand, manipulate time and see trough time( anyone can have a reading steiner) it has the best time system in my opinion since it can explain, manipulate and restore all tropes of time traves
Truth be told nothing is as complex as the idea of both magic, history and time travel but in order to create a story about how each of these concepts work is another complex idea in itself. That's why it is never easy for the reader to tell if these concepts are plausible or implausible.
I am so on board with tailoring a whole generation of writers to suit your interests
Time travel is awesome, unless you’re Barry Allen.
"Dammit, Barry!"
The only Flash stupid enough to do that. Just stop messing with time!
IT WAS ME BARRY!
@@nowhereman6019 Remember that time when you shat your pants Barry?
IT WAS ME! I SHAT YOUR PANTS!
@@pathfindersavant3988 I might be wrong but is that a motherfucking JOJO REFERENCE
I like how in Stein's Gate, they centered around a very limited form of Time-Travel. And apparently interfering with the past can cause new events to be fixed- and can only become unfixed when all the timeline changes are undone.
Two of my favorite quotes on time paradoxes:
"Wait, if you destroyed Dib in the past, then he won't ever be your enemy, then you won't have to send a robot back to destroy him, and then he will be your enemy so you will have to send a robot back...(HEAD EXPLODES)" -Gir
"Well, now everything is back as it was, and if history doesn't care that our degenerate friend Fry is his own grandfather, then who are we to judge?" -Prof. Farnsworth
One of my favorite ones is basically something bad goes back to try to mess things up and the main people have to go back in time after them to stop them from messing everything up. I like this because the cast gets a chance to see one or multiple characters in a different part of their life before they met them. It has so much potential I think
I have missed this series sooooo much Red. You're probably one of my biggest inspirations for starting my video essay channel. I really love your work and hope I can one day live by writing about the media I'm passionate about just like you guys
Medium D Speaks It’s not like she ever stopped making it though. The regular rate for Trope Talk is once a month, and while this one took a while to come out, it’s still technically consistent with that schedule.
I thought this video came out months ago? Damn time travel
Death Bird do I ever find love
I must know
czcams.com/video/L-GkAb1UmKQ/video.html
Love finds you dead
Death Bird god damn it I didn’t even get a doggo
One of the most mind-blowing time-travel novels I've ever read was a slim young-adult novel written in 1988 by Avi: _Something Upstairs._ The basic premise is, being a ghost is a little bit like time traveling, but with a some knowledge and effort, you can also haunt the future while still alive, and possibly the past, too. And it deals quite candidly with slavery and racism in colonial New England, which may be why you've never heard of it.
Sometimes chaos _can_ work, although your mileage may vary with H. Beam Piper's "Big Time" stories, in which the timeline itself is a battleground.
Alternate timelines were done really, really well by Diana Wynne Jones, author of the Novel _Howl's Moving Castle._ Nearly all of her novels written in the '80s and '90s are set in one big multiverse, although few stories involve more than one or two worlds. In the novel, Howl lives in a magical timeline, but he's from our mundane Earth originally, he grew up as an ordinary Welsh kid named Howell.
The "alternate Infinities" appendices in _GURPS Infinite Worlds_ support a variety of interesting time-travel scenarios, and the rest of the rulebook is about alternate timelines, again!
Let’s not forget when the Doctor Decided Time should obey him and things almost turned out really freaking bad as a result, because he wanted to save people.
I think we call this the Dark Time. Or the Wet Times depending on if you like puns.