Trope Talk: Dragons
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2020
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Dragons! They're big, they're scaly, they're legendary! But how deep does the wyrmhole go?
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it's a crime they're extinct
We’ve only got the Komodo sub-species now
Oof
Ssssssh we added them to fiction so people would forget they ever existed
I see Jocat is on the same youtube cycle as me right now.
This is why they are never the protagonist
I love how portrayal of dragons turned from "basically a god" into "an oversized huggable reptile"
As it should be
Why not both?
both. both is good.
@@jazzratoon Fwench Fwy from the artist Chikn Nugget. Nuff said.
Huggable, reptilian girlfriend who gives head scratches and kisses
I listen to too much asmr
The real reason dragons are so popular globally is because dragons are cool
Honestly think that might be it
or on average people have more subconscious scaley tendencies than furry
@@xynged fluffy dragons exist!
@@icel8828 Get that idea out of my head
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 no. I will put it there
I love how Fire Emblem essentially uses all possible dragon tropes and roles.
Dragon hero? Check
Dragon villain? Check
Divine dragon? Check
Demonic dragon? Check
Apocalyptic dragon? Check
Nuisance dragon? Check
Human-like dragon? Check
Animalistic dragon? Check
Dragon-shifter? Check
Dragon jewelry? Check
Dragon riding? Check
Dragon banging?... C-check
Dragon Grandma/ Check.
I honestly would like to know more about them. The only Fire Emblem dragon I really know anything about is Corrin
@@phoenixfire1074
It will be very interesting for you to then go and play the other games in this fantastic(al) series.
I will give you some guidance.
If you want a dragon as a villain, play a fire emblem game. Like, any. Even Corrin opposes one in their own game xD
That kinda coincides with the apocalyptic thing.
Rideable dragons also come into play fairly often. There are Unit-, classes that ride what FE calls Wyverns. Which are basically the animalistic and tamable kind.
There are people in the FE-Universe who can transform into Dragons by the use of a special object called a Dragonstone. In FE-Lore they are called Manakete and technically Corrin is one of those. So the shifters and humanoids are covered as well as the Jewelry.
Some FE-Stories are about a clash of Gods. Usually represented as Dragons. So we have the Divine Good as well as evil.
And when it comes to the last one....
Fire Emblem Awakening and Fates allow you to establish romances between a variety of characters and units with a degree of freedom. Those pairing then can even have children.
In Awakening one of those is a Manakete called Nowi.
I will let you Google her yourself to figure out why OP was a bit... Uncomfortable about that 😅
Dragon hero: Corrin
Dragon villian: like half the franchise's main villians
Divine dragon: Alear
Demonic dragon: Sombron
Apocalyptic dragon: the fire dragons from fe7 and medius from fe11
Nuisance dragons: alot of them
Human like dragon: tiki, Fae, myrrh, ninian and Nils
Animalistic dragon: maneketes
Dragon shifter: maneketes
Dragon riding: wyvern riders
Dragon banging: eliwood and ninian
Getting pushed down the stairs? Check
When king dragon doesn’t send his regards:
Lysanderoth you were behind all this!
Mari Uchiha “if think that was a nice shot....”
This journey has only just beGUN
@@mariuchiha4664 Yes it was I! My machinations lay undetected for years
C3EO for I am a master of deception.
I think it’s cool that basically every culture saw a reptile and decided “what if it could fly and do magic that’d be sick as hell”
I broke my feet today because I kicked my computer because someone commented that my videos are bad! I hate unjustified criticism. Please wish me a speedy recovery, dear meme
@@AxxLAfriku your videos are bad
@@AxxLAfriku your videos are bad
AxxL delete your channel
@@illegalmemedealer3549 okay there's no need for that
Dragon: *exists*
Storm God: "Finally a worthy opponent, our battle will be legendary!"
Indeed it was.
Is this an Aurora reference?
@@myartjoruney3523 It's a Kung-fu panda reference
Odin, sighing: Ugh... fine. Roll initiative... again...
Seeing as dragons can range from nigh-omniscient to mindless, can appear in a practically uncountable number of ways, and the consistent through-line of their portrayals is that they're incredibly powerful, I'm putting forth the thesis that dragons are Lovecraftian eldritch beings that decided to look more fashionable at the cost of not being able to melt someone's frontal lobe just by existing
How is that a cost, exactly?
@@StarshadowMelody listen sometimes people can be really annoying to the point where instant remote lobotomies can be a boon okay
"I am limitless, fathomless, undefinable. I strike fear into the hearts of my enemies and defy categorization. But.... can I also be _sexy?_ "
They sometimes do that anyway!
Source: Fablehaven series by Brandon Mull
@@crypticmedicine Gotta get them ladies
"My ancestors sent me a lizard?"
"Hey, I'm a dragon, _DRA-GON,_ I don't do that tongue thing."
*does the tongue thing*
Mulan
Right in the childhood. Good stuff.
*DISHONOR ON YOUR* 🐄
It's funny. In French, he says "Nous ne parlons pas la même langue" before doing the tongue thing (aka "We don't talk the same language") so there's a nuance that's lost in translation there.
The more you know...
As AronRa once pointed out, dragons are the only kind of lizard(except snake) who actually do that tongue thing.
Someone: "Big lizard that probably flies."
People all over the world all throughout history: " *YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO* "
there not lizards they dont do the tounge thing
oop
Japan: Hear me out here me out What if the lizard couldn't fly was even bigger and nigh indestructable
@@evagriusponticus4080 Fun fact: Godzilla (aka Cthulhu aka Kraken aka Leviathan aka Kagutsuchi) straight fulfil definition of a dragon. Quetzalcoatlus northropi, so actual big (33ft/10m) lizard what did fly, do not.
@Waffie The Dweeb A elemental deity. Word dragon originated from bible where it is used in Latin version of bible as title of Satan as the Serpent. But later it become used to describe broad category of wild elemental deities and overpowered monsters such as Lindworm or Wyvern. Here it is worth to mention that most famous and most stereotypical (gold hording) dragon is Fafnir who actually is a dwarf, who in Nordic mythologies were also a deities (earth elementals specifically). Being a deity is in fact most constant trait even in many cases overshadowing snake part. For example in Journey to the West white dragon Bai Longma spend way more time as a horse and later human then actual serpent. Anyway, even if most elemental deities are serpentine some also appear as birds (Phoenix, Suzaku, Rok, Geruda, Ziz, etc) or other types of beasts (like Behemot, Byakko, etc), also a "sacred steeds" (Unicorns, Griffins, Kirins, Burak, etc) and of course human. In fact it is quite possible that smith/knight defeating dragon in legend dating to Proto-Indo-Eurpeans as storm deity was a dragon himself.
A spider/insect-based dragon is actually a sick concept.
No! Please god no! Noooooooooooooo!
Literally the lost continent in wings of fire
Tell that to someone with either arachnophobia or any insect phobia like mellisophobia or apipophobia
Considering how cool dragon_flies_ are, I've had the idea of dragonfly-inspired dragons
I always thought gold was a dragon's equivalent to twigs and sticks to make comfortable beds for them like how twigs and sticks are to birds.
It is. Gold is a very soft metal so it makes sense that dragons, who hoard gold to begin with, also use it for a bed. This gives them a comfy mattress and protects against thieves
@@Cara-39yeah,the fact that it's valuable to humans is just a coincidence
"I'm punk, so I must rebel"
"I'm asian, so I must like math"
"I dye my hair crazy colors, so I must be looking for attention"
*"I'm a dragon, so I must be defeated by a storm-god"*
Chinese dragons: But I *am* a storm god
@@michaelzheng5250 * Existential crisis intensifies *
Michael Zheng can’t trust anyone not even yourself
Dying 🤣
@@michaelzheng5250 Lots of Chinese dragons get wrecked by other dragons because of family drama so that tracks XD
Dragons: *Exist*
Storm Gods: So anyways, I started blasting-
shame we never got a deep dive into the storm spirit trope 😔
L Guffee dragons are evil super rich people, who throughout history would reign terror on the poor. Just think of gangsters who made it as big as could be. After a few generations, power corrupts, they sit on gold. Hydra is their organisations, when you cut off the head, another arises. What is more likely, real dragons and mythical creatures, or it's symbolic of reality from people who couldn't write, but would draw images to pass on information. Propaganda is real.
An explaination for that would actually be; indo-europeans. Those guys had a HUGE worship of the dragon as both a god and a monster symbolizing war and violence. That's why, with some variations, a lot of the places they went to ended up having some kind of dragon in their mythos. That would actually explain the "defeated by a storm god". That part had to be in the original indo-european myth.
That's of course excluding the Mesoamerican and autralian dragons, which were simply a serpent worship mixed with birds/rainbow.
So, dragon-coincidence? I think (mostly) not!
@@Valaame so what youre saying is, colonisation
@@Valaame That's why Susanoo slaying the serpent Yamato-no-Orochi is now believed to be Indo-European in origin as well, probably introduced to Japan from India with the arrival of Buddhism. It's amazing how that myth managed to find itself spread all the way from Scandinavia to Japan!
Dragons as cats: *Stares at viking leader, unblinking for a solid minute, his paw outstretched, watching the viking leader keep saying "Noooooo! Don't you do it!" as the Dragon mimes knocking the lower-ranked viking off a cliff*
In Korean folklore, there are 'near-dragon' entities called 'Imugi's. When a serpent lives for a hundred years, it becomes an imugi, which has the ability to bring storms and waves. An imugi must survive another thousand years and earn the 'Yeouiju' and ascend to become a dragon without any mortals watching it. Most Imugis are depicted as nice and helpful, but there are some 'evil' imugis in korean folklore. For example, an imugi lived for 1000 years and found the Yeouiju and when it was finally ascending to the sky, a mortal saw it ascending (which makes him turn back to an imugi), and it obviously became mad and killed the mortal. The 'evil turned' imugis become monsters called 'Gangcheori's and cause drought and fire (kinda similar to the flame breathing dragons)
Imugis that succeed in ascending become dragons and become immortal.
Honestly I'm not sure that's entirely evil, if I had to wait 1000 years to become a dragon and then had start all over again last second just because some guy couldn't look the other way, I'd be extremely pissed off as well
Bruh, I know this from the movie Dragon Wars.
*Ancient Mythology:* _Themes of storm gods killing dragons_
*Me:* Is that why dragons in _Dark Souls_ are weak to lightning damage?
Sort of; Gwyn is a pretty explicit parallel to Zeus and a lot of Dark Souls 1 is steeped in Greek/Norse mythology.
@@tank19768 I can see the Gwyn's connection to Zeus and Nito's connection to Hades, but I'm not seeing any other parallels. Could you please elaborate?
Ooh... Robert Baratheon was the lord of the Stormlands..... And he killed the dragon kings!
@@Epicmonk117 I could see Gwyn and the other founders of the age of fire being a parallel to the Olympians usurping control from the Titans.
Gwyndolin's association with moonlight, femininity, and archery also gives off Artemis vibes.
@@Epicmonk117 If we're talking general parallels between Dark Souls and other mythologies, there's obviously the creation myth, which has the gods overthrowing the dragons to bring about a new world order, similarly to the Greek gods overthrowing the titans.
There's the world tree from Norse, as the world of Dark Souls lies atop an archtree as seen when descending through the Great Hollow to Ash Lake (notice how the lake extends all around despite being far below ground).
The titanite slab is engraved with 100% legible and translatable runes.
Anor Londo, being a city of gods on top of a mountain has parallels to Mount Olympus.
There's the primordial serpents, which are obviously involved in a lot of mythologies.
There's the balder knights, which while bearing no explicit parallels to Baldur, is a pretty obvious reference.
I'm sure there are others, but these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
Dragons: *Exist*
Storm gods: and I took that personally
The idea of dragons could have arisen because ancient people found dinosaur fossils and, not knowing what dinosaurs were, [ahem!] imagined dragons.
Well if you think about it, dragons are ultimate, powerhouse, magical, juggernauts. So it’d kinda make sense to throw them up against the more powerful gods in any given story. Said gods are usually storm gods in some capacity.
...I think... idk
@@joshuakirkham9224*cough* thunder= big roar of flying monster
Is THIS the reason the dragons in Dark Souls are weak to lightning!?
@@joshuakirkham9224 Either storm, sky, and/or sun are the most common top-power of most myths, and all three are usually at least high-tier.
There is one example of dragon riding in folklore. The Romanian concept of the Scholomance was a black magic school taught by the devil. One of the graduates would be chosen to become Weathermaster, riding a dragon to control the weather. This idea was adapted into the Scholomance series by Naomi Novik, minus the devil and the dragon.
R.I.P. Weather Dragon.
Also storms and dragons...again.
In Asia too. In Taoism there is an entire category of deities that ride dragons, either on their backs or with chariots. Partly because Asian dragons are to animals what dosas are to humans: who are enlightened in the Tao and ascended. We even have 용마, which is a literal horse-dragon.
@@user-ng4xe5rf8n how are dosas related to humans
@@phryg2035 Dosa is an ascended human through understanding The Way. There is no dosa that is not human.
edit: typo
I think anatomically Dragons are by way of their disparate nature a taxonomic Order, rather than family or a genus or one specific species. Because of this any creature that can reasonably be recognized as a dragon can be included in that order, because it shares some nebulous characteristics with all the rest of dragondom, even if not every dragon shares ANY of those characteristics. In fact I think the only characteristic I've never seen missing from dragons is that they have scales are very similar to reptiles.
Idea based on your comment: 6th group of vertebrates?
@@yusheitslv100 definitly lol
@@yusheitslv100 Nah, because dragons DEFINITELY seem like they're in the clade Sauropsida, considering they're generally reptilian, and although some have wings, birds are Sauropsida too; the Reptilia class contains all sauropsids other than birds, so dragons fit right in there. As the original commentor said, they fit as an order, although I *guess* I can see making them a different class, considering that birds and reptiles are both sauropsids but are in different classes.
haha, have i got news for you...(go read the dragonriders of pern books and marvel at the dragons' "soft hides," and wonder (as i do) how these creatures can still be so clearly and obviously dragons despite missing the dragon's only consistent defining feature)
May I offer you Seath the Scaleless (I know I’m cheating as he is literally just a regular dragon with a genetic defect but still)
My forever favorite dragon subversion is “the Dragun has a gun.”
How about being the dragon is a gun, lots of guns. See Digimon , Gundramon
“No girls! Girls gotta die!” -that one video
@@TheRhuen not close to Enter the Gungeon Dragun who throws knives which shoot bullets
What about the "Dragon his feet" one?
Gungeons and Draguns
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons puny mortal. For thou art crunchy, and good with ketchup.
I have that on a t-shirt!!!!!
Protagonist: Yeah thats a cool story bro but uh, can you give me a ride? The final battle has started and I need to look cool.
But in Soviet Russia, humans eat dragons. Dragon sandwiches... 😎
I laughed so hard 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Nion Ashborn where can I get this shirt?
I love how depending on how you analyze the game's "ideas", the Enderdragon fits Tolkiens description
I hate you for putting this in my head, you genius.
Could you elaborate?
I find the concept of having a tiny dragon as a weapon hilarious. Like when a character's in a pinch and pulls out a pocket dragon or maybe there's a standoff with a bunch of characters in a circle pointing tiny dragons at each other. XD
Happens in some Discworld books.
Dragons don’t kill people, people with dragons kill people
"Call your usually human-shaped bad guy a dragon"
Me: King Dragon sends his regard
Archibald, NO!
@@leomoreno7369 I hope all of us can be the best of chums, and nothing will ever change that.
Well, this journey’s only just beGUN
If only my little brother Gunther could see me now
@@cappertilge8916
Guys I’m right here. I think I have dialogue for this
Uncle Iroh is the best dragon. I accept no criticism on this.
Kiryu Kazuma and Ryuji Goda arch eyebrows...
I would say I'd kick the ass of anyone who disagrees with this assessment, but that's not what Iroh would want me to do.
@@blackjacktrial your rejection application will be... well, rejected. The origional commenter is not accepting criticism on this particular matter at this time.
Agreed
@@sayerglasgow115 unless they're Azula
If it's Azula then it's fine
The How To Train Your Dragon book dragons are cool, because they have the tiny harmless dragons but also dragons the size of mountainsides that see past, present, and future.
And dragons of all different species. Some hardly look like our idea of dragons except typically having an isocelene on their tail, wings, and four legs. They range from intelligence beyond humans to animal stupidity, and most of them speak Dragonese.
Also, the exploration of their “selfish, malevolent behavior” is very interesting.
Exactly, and this is why I never liked the movies - I was a hardcore How to Train Your Dragon BOOK fan. The movies basically just stole the character names then wrote a completely different story that spit on everything that made the books good - that being the unique take and perspective on dragons as a species and their interactions with humans.
@@jplus1054 I liked the movies. They're a bad _adaptation,_ but they're good if you take them as two separate things.
I always love it when dragons are depicted as like actual animals, rather than just beings of power. It kinda makes them feel more grounded into the world and more interesting
I like it when there are both intelligent and animal-like dragons in the same world.
It sets up so many potential storytelling opportunities about the world and its lore, on top of any story's revolving around a central set of characters who need to interact with dragons.
That’s how I depict all monsters. The Realm of Dragons is a project on my DevaintArt where I treat dragons like real creatures, give them scientific names, and try to classify them as best I can.
@@soulcyclone360 Fire Emblem! (The actual stories being good is up to debate)
@@Dexuz is there a particular game I should start with? Or should I just pick up the first one I see.
@@soulcyclone360 I'd say Awakening is best for a first-player experience, maybe Fates too.
_Ancient human looks at lizard_
"What if that was bigger? *AND BETTER???"*
"Upgrades people! Upgrades!"
I mean, there are the Komodo dragons...
Petr Ševčík but wings
**Ancient human finds dinosaur fossil**
"Holy shit! What kind of monster died to leave this here?!"
@@Vegas242 a giant human of couse
I wonder if that "lightning god x dragon" is caused by how thunder is the loudest thing most pre-industrial people could have the chance to hear so it makes sense that the biggest baddest monster would be fighting the lightning
Nice insight
Lightning is often seen in the sea during storms so it makes even more sense that most lightning gods fight sea dragons.
the lightning god x dragon instantly made me think of a cursed ship
The idea of a thunder god fighting a dragon has roots in a pre-historic culture group known as the "proto-Indo Europeans" who were spread across (get this) Europe and India, bringing their stories and mythology with them. One of those myths featured a thunder god facing off against a sea serpent connected to the ocean. It spread across the continents and changed over the course of thousands of years, but the seeds of the story remained mostly constant. The story of Susanoo and Orochi is actually a relatively recent myth that likely originated from Buddhist (i.e. Indian) influence on Japan.
Less likely but what If someone say on those thunderstorms that sometimes come off of volcanic Eruptions. That could easily appear as fire and lightning doing battle. On second thought is that Typhons thing? That He was trapped under as mountain that’s actually a volcano in real life? I can’t remember
"Is Smaug in this one?"
That's the cutest thing I've ever seen
You forgot one of the most well known dragons, the one from Revelation: "Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth."
I thought she was going to mention that one. Which reminds me, I've the word Dragon appeared a lot more in the original King James Version. It has since been replaced by other animals, namely the jackal. It's was likely referring to dinosaurs, as it is believed that many tales of dragons came from dinosaur bones.
My personal favorite tidbit about Satan in his seven headed serpent form is that japan was like "Yamata-no-orochi has eight heads lol" and the greeks were like "Hydra has nine heads lol"
Any dragon: *breathes*
A storm god within fifty feet of the dragon, rolling up their sleeves: alright, that’s it-
Thor 4 plot confirmed
Irodoku Puzzle oh my god he even fought a dragon in Thor Ragnarok wtf
Mac N’Cheese
...You’re right.
@@UCjNrKLyRJI-abFA8qiNo92Q Maybe it's Susanoo posing as Thor?
You just yee’d your last haw
Uncle Iroh: Ancient, powerful, breathes fire, central to the plot, central to the theme of the story. Even beyond the name Iroh fits the idea of a dragon completely. Love it. You even get a subversion of expectations as you’d expect a general of the bad guys to be a power-hungry maniac but he’s a kind, philosophising, old man who loves his Jasmine tea and Pai Sho. One of my favourite characters ever.
He’s even called a dragon
A kind philosophical old man who nonetheless _kicks major ass_ too
He invented lightning redirection for that inevitable showdown with a storm god.
IROH-NIC isn't it?
He sounds more like a Chinese dragon than European dragon to me
I think the reason people like trying to taxonomize dragons, and magical creatures in general, is because it's just an interesting thought experiment. What would these creatures be like if they actually existed? What would they look like? Where would they live? What would they eat? For me, at least, it just makes the fantasy feel so much more real.
yeah. its not that helpful for trope analysis, but its incredibly helpful for worldbuiliding or just enjoying media on a deeper level
I just do it because I am weirdly desperate to be thorough in my worldbuilding, lol
I like to think that dragons don't hoard just because they like shinies, more likely they've just always been employed to guard treasure... BUUUT I also like the idea that they actually gather a hoard like a bower bird's bower, something made to attract a mate or something, that could be an interesting spin on the old hoarding thing.
11:15 By Tolkien's definition, Toothless would absolutely be considered a dragon.
1) Mechanics: I don't know, is the dragon important to the plot of How to Train Your Dragon?
2) Ideas: Toothless helps to convey a lot of the themes of friendship, misunderstanding, and other things I'm too sleep-deprived to come up with.
Definitely underrated comment. I agree.
Awesome
He is definitely important,
First of, in many ways he is kind of a mirror to Hiccup:
-One of a kind and an outcast
-far smarter than their peers
-unwilling to submit to a hierarchy kept in place through force
-missing a limb
-leaders of their respective sides (by birth, but both had to prove themself and earn their positions by gaining the necessary respect of their peers)
And only a dragon with the necessary intellect and understanding of what it means to be an outsider would have given Hiccup the chance he needed to discover the true nature of dragons and bring about the changes he did,
And Hiccup and Toothless both recognised themself in the other - the story would likely not have worked out with any normal dragon
@@lemmetalkaboutthis I may be wrong but I think it’s ironic like hmmmmmm I wonder is the *dragon* important to how to train your *dragon*
@@galning2768 I mean, the movies sprang from children's books, it can probably be excused for being a little on the nose lol
tl;dr: it's about Toothless counting as a "real dragon" by _Tolkien's_ standards, which include more than just the physical shape - WE might see all the dragons as "real dragons", but Toothless might be the only one of them that Tolkien would ALSO consider a "real dragon"
Okay, long explanation: there's a huge difference between movies and the books - in the books, dragons are more... kinda like livestock? A mix between pets, hunting dogs, and working-animals. But they also have a language, one that humans can speak, even if it's forbidden - the movie made them a dangerous force to be reckoned with, but also much more animalistic; smart animals, DAMN smart animals, but still animals
If you went by "how to train your dragon", it sounds more like a guide for training a *pet* rather than a story about befriending an intelligent being that's on the opposite site of a generations-long war
But even then, Toothless is still quite exceptional - with him and Hiccup it's more like we have two people that are learning to work with each other, while with the other dragons, it really feels a lot more like training an animal with food and commands and so-on
I can see Toothless understanding a lot more from the human language than the other dragons - hell, he expresses exasperation, kind of sarcasm at times, and plays along in fake-arguments, he actively follows the human's conversations, etc.... and Hiccup talks to him like just another person a lot more than we see the other riders - they talk to their dragons a lot more like pets, or well-trained dogs, not expecting a reply or full understanding
Hiccup also doesn't talk to other dragons like he does to Toothless, likely knowing that there is a pretty big gap in how well he will be understood
So, like I said earlier, Toothless would count as "a REAL dragon" by Tolkien's standards, not because of what he physically is, but because he was necessary for the story itself- it wouldn't have worked with a Nadder or a Monstrous Nightmare, which WE also classify as dragons, but with Tolkien's view on the subject might not count as "real" dragons
*"Why dragons?"*
Me, an intellectual: Big lizard go _W O O O O S H_
Very Nice, I Chuckled
Well, you're not wrong
This post really sucks, what even is the joke
Dragons are one of my favorite mythical beasts. Their colored scales, how they can spew breath of different elements, their claws and fangs. I would love to have one as a pet or friend.
So I’ve been reading the Wheel of Time lately. This video really makes me step back and look at the main character a bit differently. The Dragon Reborn as he’s called echoes all the tropes of a physical dragon without being a scaled winged scary lizard. Just the name of him can inspire that awe that dragons have had for millennia. Fascinating, thank you
*Red:* "He's a dragon! He's a dragon! You're a dragon! I'm a dragon! Are there any other dragons I should know about?"
*Toothless:* "Meow"
Glaurung would like a word. Ancalagon would too, only he can’t talk. And letting Glauring talk to you is a really bad idea; just ask Turin, or Nienor. *Especially if you’re unwise enough to look into Glaurung’s eyes are the same time.*
Oof
Firedrake from 'Dragon Rider' and all the dragons from 'The Fire Within', maybe?
Dragon Hunters stretched the definition of Dragon to its absolute breaking point. I mean, you had the Ramadur and the "Draft Dragon" (that pulled an airship), both ofwhich fit the european description, but also more outlandish stuff like Hector, who was a fuzzy dog-ferret thing with roughly human intelligence, the Vanikoro, which was just a huge Chameleon, and the Aartog which was a huge Spider Creature that could shapeshift into human form, and had a desire to live *as* a human as opposed to being a "Dragon" (It still got killed at the end after it tried to take the place of one of the Protagonists), among other species.
I think in that world, "Dragon" seems to be a catch-all term for any monster that isn't more or less a normal animal, like sheep or pigs, though domesticated Dragons, like Hector, also existed which muddles the whole thing somewhat...
Yis
Ok but using a tiny DRAGON as a weapon is the most metal thing ever, and of course it came from the people that did blood sacrifices
Pretty much every old Mesoamerican culture had human sacrifice. The Aztecs were just particularly...enthusiastic about it.
A* people that did blood sacrifices.
FTFY
Well Valyrians only tamed dragons through blood magic and blood sacrifices...
@@veggiesblowup8785 Not sure if "a people" is grammatically correct but yeah it _is_ hisorically correct.
@@toprak3479 'A people' is grammatically correct, as it refers to a single body in collective.
Upon further thought, though, it's probably more historically accurate to say "some number of peoples", 'cause mesoamerica had as much diversity of people groups as anywhere else.
I LOVE how you used an image from the original how to train your dragon series by Cressida Cowell for the cute/tiny dragons. That series was my childhood and still an absolute favorite ;)
I wish there were more movies, media and stories with dragons being protagonists or helping them and less of an enemy.
Wings of Fire has that. It’s a book series with dragons as the protagonists
" But this begs the question: why dragons?"
* surprised sputtering * WHY NOT DRAGONS?!?!?!?
But I can do you one better why are dragons
But...but...BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?
@@shadenfroda273 well that's great and all but have anyone asked how are the dragons?
Title: Trope Talk: Dragons
Everybody: *WHAT ABOUT THEM?*
Exactly why not dragons
The whole "one who stares" leans credence to the whole 'dragons are just big scaly cats'
So toothless
yo now i wanna see funny dragon vids
That explains their hoards.
@@Ribbons0121R121 "DRAGON ACCIDENTALLY BURNS DOWN FIREWORKS WAREHOUSE! [hilarious]"
I’m still waiting for one of my cats to breathe fire when I’m 3 seconds late to feeding them
I’d say dragon taxonomy makes sense within one universe (like how in WoF SilkWings and hivewings are related and the split can be traced back to one event) but once you start to get more general than that it gets impossible
Yoshi is the cutest "dragon" ever known. Fight me.
Fun idea: D&D-type setting where every intelligent variety of dragon insists they're the "true dragons" and all the others are just posers.
Make them embody metal stereotypes by subgenre
Yes
Oh wow! Play snake jazz in the back ground. :D
So... Just normal baseline D&D? Guys, please read the lore.
now I'm remembering that one tumblr pose about a noble dragonborn knight being sent to slay a dragon and rescue the princess only to realize she is both the dragon she is meant to kill and the princess she was sent to save
"My cousin is out fighting Dragons and what do I get? Guard duty."
-Whiterun Guard while walking away from a fresh Dragon corpse
“I was an adventurer like you, till I took an arrow to the knee.” - Whiterun Guard before being crushed by a dragon.
"Someone stole your sweet roll?" To you after murdering the dragon.
@@RequiemPoete you know come to think of it guards really are just assholes fucking with you aren't they.
Pesant: "Excuse me, Lord Player Character Sir. Please. There are those mudcraps that occupy the river banks and keep me from catching fish to feed my hungry children. Please Sir, help me and slay those mudcraps. I'm just a simple pesant and wouldn't stand a chance agai..."
*dragon appears in the village
Pesant: "Excuse me Sir..."
*Pesant draws iron dagger and charges the dragon: "Leeeroy Jeeenkiiiiins!!!"
@@kingnothing8570 They are police after all.
"The power that comes with the utterance; the awe, the respect, the presence, the status - the dragon, embodiment of fear and reverence."
This little quote is something I found that perfectly embodies what the concept of dragons ultimately boils down to. A living, universal symbol of power that everyone knows and respects for one reason or another. Just being called _a_ dragon in any sense of the word tends to garner respect or even fear, hence why the trope character of _the_ Dragon is often more easily recognized and feared even by viewers than the Big Bad might be, especially in cases where the Big Bad doesn't play a massive part in most of the story. In certain cases, the Dragon carrying more weight than the official Big Bad is a plot point in itself, hence the Dragon-in-Chief trope.
5:22 there is a played straiy Mockumentary about dragons that more or less does exactly that made by the BBC and originally airing on Animal Planet in America called Dragons World : A Fantasy made Real, which is a really fun movie and actually comes up with some pretty cool realistic answers to how Dragons could’ve lived, evolved, where they went and even how they were able to fly and even Breathe fire, while also covering a framing narrative centered around a Paleontologist who is called in to examine a frozen Dragon body that was found in an icy mountainous region that I’ve forgotten exactly where, thus providing proof of dragons existing. It’s a truly Facinating movie and I really recommend it, to you guys in particular. And if you’re not sold already, there’s a scene where a prehistoric Wyvern looking dragon fights a T-REX!
Man I watched that when I was like 7. Probably inspired my love for fantasy. However nowadays it rings a lot of woo woo alarms and alerts me to film Quakery. You're really telling me they found an actual dragon, and it's not all over every history book?
I wrote a story with draconic people and my favorite person was “Dr. Agon”
Why did it take me a second to get that
Michael my friend needed 2 days!
Thanks, I'm stealing that for a DND character
@@Chickentendies1989 How long did it take you to figure out that Alucard is Dracula backwards?
Jeremy go ahead
I'm pretty sure that the whole Dragon taxonomy debate started because everyone bought that Dragonology book at their school's scholastic book fair and took it WAY too seriously
Dragonology! That takes me back X3
That said, I'd argue it might have instead been due to that Animal Planet documentary about dragons.
I remember that book!
I remember trying to carefully tease open one of the sealed envelope elements so as not to leave any tears or damage the book when my mum came by with a letteropener like "oh I'll help with that" and just ripped the thing open.
Almost two decades have passed and I'm still upset.
God, let's be real tho, those books were rad and fun and they got me into that kinda thing for actual animals
Yeah
The first 30 seconds is literally why dragons are my favorite mythical creatures.
The fire breathing trope may have originated with the leviathan who is described as literally breathing fire and making the ocean depths boil with it's breath.
Imagine an alternate reality wherein dragons aren't a thing, but there's some nonspecific, pan-mythological entity that's basically a magic spider.
Spiders with wings, sea spiders, fire-breathing spiders, gold-loving spiders, venomous spid - wait
@@hogndog2339 on the spiders with wings: there are spiders that can fly in real life, using a process called ballooning. It's awesome. I had one float in front of my face while I was on a hike. It's more floating on the wind. And I also find this really cool and want to ramble about it.
@@epauletshark3793 What species do that? (My only experience with weird spiders is with social spiders, which raise their young instead of eating them.)
In all reality, the ultimate creature is crabs and lobsters. They always find a way back.
@@epauletshark3793 Oh, I hate everything you just describe. I just had a nightmare today where a spider nest fell on me.
I’m still traumatized.
Lysanderoth: A fine video indeed. King Dragon sends his regards.
I think that enemy got... the point!
this reference is so random and yet I instantly understood it
AYOOOOOOOOOOOOO
“HRRAAAH!”
Gee, do you think that enemy did or did not get the point?
"Why are you doing this?"
I want a trope talk on witches, and their often metaphorical nature!
Trope talk on Mermaids could be interesting- also sirens ofc have Greek origins so it would be right up this channel’s alley
In the Red Dwarf television series, one of the characters said that the 'woman top - fish bottom' arrangement was the stupid way of doing it.
Referring to their intention to have sex with a Mermaid.
Sirens are birds.
Mythologies all around the world: "Storm God vs Dragon"
Dark Souls 3: "But what if Storm God and Dragon vs you?"
Infographic show: WRITE THAT DOWN
If we're being really technical it was a war god and a storm dragon (drake) but either way they whooped my ass several times before I beat them
Who says I'M not a dragon too?
Dark Souls gives you that option in all 3 games, and I ALWAYS take it!
Meanwhile, in One Piece...
Kaidou : *"I AM THE STORM DRAGON!!"*
More like storm god, dragon and camera vs you.
I have a sweater that says, “Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup”
I have a plaque with almost the same quote. Except it's "for thou art crunchy and would taste good with ketchup."
I want that sweater
omw to rob you, sorry pal
My mom has that shirt!
I remember having that shirt when I was like 6
just have to shoutout all those little drawings of dragons, they are all great and adorable
Snakes & Sepulchres
Wyverns & Winecellars
Serpents & Strongholds
Ogres & Ossuaries
Cells & Centaurs
Goblins & Graveyards
Ouroboroi & Oubliettes...
_That's all the ones I could think of. Feel free to suggest more..._
well, considering I know what an oubliette is...that's terrifying.
Red: "one who stares"
Me: So, cats?
Also Red: Yes, cats!
Or owls.
It's cats.... I mean, look at them, they're staring into the corner, while I'm right by their side..... Yikes
Wasn't Falkor, the Luck Dragon in The Neverending Story, more dog-like? After all, what is a Pointer, but a dog who stares?
Johanna Geisel, omg, OWLS ARE FLYING CATS
Matthewzard Considering that owls can actually eat cats, I strongly advise that you think that comment through.
It blows my mind that 1000s of years in the future, some serious historian will inevitably analyse Blue eyes White dragon and Kobayashi's Dragon maid
“So as shown in this ancient poster of some sort, they worshipped some sort of goddess with a snakelike tai and deer like horns. We have yet to translate these ancient Japanese runes, but we think she has something to do with the copious depictions of the goddess with cat ears.”
@@liammclin5722 or they can just google the translation.
Historical studies in the far future are going to be so much weirder.
Imagine them thinking the dragon maid dragon was a fertility goddess because of her… well y’know, and pondering the connect BEWD had with Ancient Egypt.
If I'm not mistaken, Konami made a series of yugioh cards based off Dragon maid
Dragons as a CATEGORY just blew my mind. Thanks!
13:58 the modern notion of a satyr being a man with goat-legs is actually a later Renaissance conflation between the Greek concept of a satyr and the Roman concept of a faun. Classical Greek satyroi were basically just men with horse tails and disturbingly large, constantly erect penises (and sometimes horns and pointed ears). In many pieces of Greek vase painting, satyroi are so mannish that most people would be unable to even identify them as anything else.
Well spotted! And some of the other monsters aren't entirely consistent either. Some ancient depictions of gryphons from Crete show them without wings. The term "Chinese Phoenix" has been given to a fabulous bird from Chinese mythology which does not have the association with fire. And while nowadays the Kraken usually appears as a cephalopod, for hundreds of years it switched from being a squid, lobster, crab, or whale. The original defining feature of the Kraken was that it was so huge it could be mistaken for an island.
“If you thought it was actually a curved, spiked club, it’s actually a fun sized dragon.”
And just when you thought Aztec mythology couldn’t get more metal, we get god wielding dragons as personal weapons
I got a few "Fun sized Dragons" of my own, if you catch my drift.
@@sewerrat7321 that was a bad reference, but I got it 😉
Aztec mythology, warrior culture and weapons technology is about as metal as you can get without using actual metal. Obsidian 4 life, yo!
As much as I love things being metal, it honestly gave me more cartooney/looney tune vibes xD
Just imagine the other Aztec gods going around bending other beings into weapons and engaging in slapstick shenanigans together while their human followers are all the polar opposite engaging in tortorous blood-rites and shit.
Norse: Dragon defeated by Storm god.
Egyptian: Dragon defeated by Storm god.
Japanese: Dragon defeated by Storm god.
Mesopotamian: Dragon defeated by Storm god.
Greek: Dragon defeated by Storm god.
Coincidence, I THINK NOT!
What if it was an actual real event every mythology had it's own version of ?
The dinosaurs going extinct
Same for Vedic myth.
Vritra gang, upvote this!
@@grogmadman522 I'd say it's more likely it has something to do with the common culture and religion all these cultures and religions came from.
Plot twist it was the same stormgod all along!!!
It occurs to me that this prolly explains why Monster Hunter calls all of its end game monsters "Elder Dragon" despite one being a Bug that can build a mech, one that is a floating ravioli with psychic powers, one is a volcano with legs, and one is an alien that was born in the fight you fight it in.
I like clever, perilous dragons, who at heart are predatory to man. A character may even seemingly parley words with the types of dragons I’m thinking of, but when all is said & done that character potentially a victim. Tolkien’s Smaug & Glaurung fit the description. Also I always liked Yevaud from le Guin’s Earthsea
"Let's be real, the ultimate fusion of human primal fears would probably have a lot more spiders involved."
The Silmarillion has entered the chat.
everybody gangster til the spider starts drinking trees
If the spider had killed Morgoth earlier a lot of trouble would have been saved from happening.
In Japanese folklore giant spiders act a lot like European dragons.
@@IdiotinGlans Aren't giant spiders in Japanese folklore also inclined to be prostitutes as well?
Now I'm upset about European Dragons are not all whored up standing on the corner in the Red Light District... >.>'
@@NimhLabs amsterdragon
Red: "Dragon as noble steed is historically unprecedented"
The Horse from Journey to the West: "Am I a joke to you?"
but you never get to ride him as a dragon, he just goes into lame horse mode.
Thats like saying Bumblebee is a giant anime mech because he is a giant robot and people drive him. there both true but not at the same time and thats key
But for most of the story he's... a horse... not a dragon.
Well he’s kind of meant to serve as an allegory which is why he mainly acts as a horse, but his origins as a dragon is still very important.
Yes
/gestures to the JttW series here/
It is absolutely a joke to her.
"The Princess is dating the dragon ..."
Do not come into my house and attack one of my OTPs, Princess Andromeda and Periapt from One Good Night by Mercedes Lackey. That was an adorable match and I won't hear slander of it.
Also Peri was a Bookwyrm, one of the better puns I've ever heard in any story.
I love how the one dude straight-up uses a dragon as a weapon. Imagine slinging a rattlesnake around to use it as a poison whip.
"Dragon isn't a specific type of creature, it's a category, like fairy or demon"
That's honestly the best way I've heard it put. I've definitely gotten into debates with people who insist that "wyverns aren't dragons" like there was ANY kind of universally agreed upon definition for the term.
Edit: And here comes the "well actually" crowd. Seriously folks, it's such a pointless hill to die on.
Exactly. Plus there is a chance somewhere in history, there are stories that describe a dragon to be more wyvern like before the term wyvern became a official thing.
I mean, that might be because wyverns are seen as lesser or weaker. So if you’re into powerful dragons, it might be a sore spot
All wyverns are dragons, not all dragons are wyverns.
D&D had the right idea, making "Dragon" its own creature category.
Same goes for people in the Pokemon fandom who whine about Altaria or Kingdra being dragons.
Thor: I have a cool hammer, what weapon do you use?
Huitzilopochtli: *_S N E K_*
Thor: I concede
Jormüngandr: *P O W E R S N E K*
Vimes of the Watch: Oh hey, I have one of those too
I have two dragons in my book series and animals with dragon-like features.
The two dragons serve a major point in the story revolving magic, power, jealously, responsibly, self control, creation, and destruction. I can wait to finally write the series!
The whole "anything can be a dragon" is taken very literally when Kirin in Monster Hunter is considered an Elder Dragon despite being a giant lightning unicorn
*dragons: complex creatures with thick, long history often associated with other monsters, divinity, and generally something to be feared and awed. often infinitely wiser and beyond humans and have multiple heads. definitely not the kind of creatures that you would think about trying to domesticate or woobify logically*
*humans:*
*humans:*
*humans:* but what if we could sit on it and go weeee
Why is the history thick?
You’d also think that about Lovecraftian Eldritch Abominations, but no matter how grotesque or terrifying or awful you make it, SOMEONE will crawl out of the gutter to tell you, personally, that they would totally sleep with it.
Japan: And what if it were a big-tittied onee-san?
Nothing can stop rule 34.
@@phastinemoon There's an actual anime about that.
“So you know lizards?”
“Yeah, what about them”
“What if we have them wings?”
“Why would we-“
“And made them breath fire?”
“Wha-“
“People will love it”
“I don’t see why this will be more popular than the hundreds of other hybrids that have been created”
2000 years later
...
Tbf to other chimera, dragons are chimera, from the tarrasque to smoug
You seem to have watched too much of the "god creates things" from P.M. seymour.
dragon stone
Also someone paint a dragon on the side f my warship yeah
Heh, horse plus spike
Though dragons are infamous for their diversity, some of the other monsters described here aren't quite as consistent as you might think.
1. Gryphons are pretty consistent overall, but some ancient depictions of them don't have wings.
2. The word phoenix was applied to other fabulous birds unrelated to the phoenix myth. The so called "Chinese phoenix" has no connection with fire.
3. In its earliest stories, the Kraken's defining trait was that it was so huge it could be mistaken for an island. Various stories depict it as a creature similar to a cephalopod, lobster, or whale, though eventually the cephalopod depiction seemed to win out.
4. Ancient Greek depictions of satyrs usually portrayed them as being a man with the ears, tail, and phallus of a horse. They eventually got combined with the Roman idea of a faun, which was half man, half goat.
Needs mention of Draco Vulgaris, from the Discworld!
For the Common Swamp Dragon, a group is referred to as a 'slump,' or possibly an 'embarrassment.'
Absolute whittles
Dragons, fairies and demons -- like pornography, "-- can't define it, but I know it when I see it."
Also they are in pornography
Also in the list:
Sexualizing woman in media
(And men at times)
Bᵤₜ Wₕₐₜ ᵢF ᵢₜ ᵢₛ ₚₒᵣₙ
@@Ribbons0121R121 you'll know when you see it
thank you for this
Who else had all the Dragonology books and as a child was very invested in the taxonomy and evolution of dragons?
Me. I loved that series.
I found the comprehensive compendium in the book bus when I was a kid, and I got so exited because I thought dragons were real and this was an actual record of different types of dragons. I cried so hard when I read the part about extinct dragons because I thought it meant that I’d never get to meet a real-live Krakatoan dragon and have it eat out of my hands like the book said they did and have a cool pet mini dragon.
I was a stupid kid. But I absolutely loved that book, so thanks for reminding me that it existed.
I have the original, and also borrowed one of the spin-offs on a library. It is a big part of my childhood.
MEEEE!
Ive got Two dragonology books as a kid and i loved them 🐉🐉
I love listening to you. Your use of descriptions, the words you use and the way you frame the ideas is very fun to listen to. Keep up the great work.
I'm convinced that the ubiquity of dragons in mythology across the world is because of early cultures finding dinosaur bones
Dragons: Storms gods always make my life worse
Every ancient greek woman ever:
Jajajajaja
Dammit Zeus
We need some sort of fic or animation about a dragon and a Greek woman drinking tea and gossiping about the latest shenanigans of the storm gods
@@amethyst_cat9532 That would be hilarious XD
Every woman ever: men *shiver*
Here be Dragons.
Here were Dragons
Jordan Neo
:’(
i'm tearing up a bit
Here Be Dragons, probably?
Warlynx 56 RIP Dragons.
with the context that early dragons were related/connected to water it makes sense they would also have a relationship with storm gods, because in those early cultures the earliest cities were built around rivers, and storms are the one thing that causes those rivers to be a problem (via flooding). Seeing this translated as our water dragon/god figure being upset by a storm kinda makes sense with that in mind.
In Hawaiiian mythos we also have dragons (Mo‘o.) But they're basically just giant scary geckos/lizards lol
It's always "what is a dragon?" never "how is a dragon?"
I’ll do you one better why is dragon
@@justasimp4179 where is dragon
@@kaledferreyra2550 When is dragon?
Zana has escaped?!
Who is a Dragon?
An 18 minute video to explain humanity has been pulling the "Is this a pigeon" meme for generations, but with dragons.
To be fair, most of those dragons had one thing in common: being reptilious.
@@thecommenter6773 Nah. Feathers, fur, (fish) scales, dragons have it all. The fish scales are especially important when thinking of dragons as reptiles, since it's hard to distinguish them.
@@Resistant396 That's right, it's just that the reptile ones are more common in most modern media.
And I guess I forgot about fish scales.
Fun fact: Ares had a dragon son. The dragon's teeth when planted and watered with blood turns into skeletons warriors
A dragon is just a bigger swallow.
>storm gods killing or being blood brothers with dragons
>Dragon taxonomy not mattering because of how many things we've societally called dragons for so long already
>Manifestation of human primal fears would probably involve more spiders
So Freyja in Dark Souls 2 is the best dragon ever because she is a giant spider that is also a dragon, understood
"Horse Plus Spike" might just be my favorite definition of unicorns ever.
One who stares?! That’s kinda boss! Like imagine a human just watching everyone else but he’s named dragon
Yeah, that's basically what the Big Bad's Lancer does.
The closest thing to this that I can think of is the character Monkey D. Dragon, the leader of the Revolutionary Army in One Piece. He mostly just watches, but if he stops watching, well, let's just say there's a reason he's considered the most dangerous man in the world. He was introduced early on, but hasn't done much. His underlings have popped up from time to time helping the heroes, and they are always powerful, but he mostly stays away. He has helped train one of the main characters, he is the father of Monkey D. Luffy(the main character), and has declared war on the World Government, so he is important, but still, he watches. I thought that the sole reason for his name was that he could control wind, but this seems like it fits as well.
I know someone who’s named Dragon. He’s the most wanted man in One Piece and father of one of the main characters
@Hans Hanzo In this instance, Kaiba wouldn't count, as I am talking about someone who lives up to the Greek meaning of Dragon, with that as his name. Seto Kaiba is closer to Iroh, in being an honorable Dragon, not someone named as such. Even still, he isn't a Dragon, he just likes the power they represent. Someone who fits more what you were talking about is (spoilers) Kaido, who can become a Dragon. He is ridiculously powerful, and people used to think that Dragon had the fruit that Kaido has. I don't really know where I am going with this.
he's called God. its greek for we made it up.
“Dragon is noble steed”
The horse from Journey to the West
everyone up vote this till Red notices.
To be fair, it was turned into a horse first. Thre's also the longma in general.
... OH MY GOD, YES!
I wished the dragon stayed a dragon I mean do you know how badass it would be to ride a dragon?
Also the emperor of china, in addition to being a dragon, was also supposed to ride a dragon. Shiva and other hindu deities rode naga. The whore of babylon is associated with the beast, but I think she was also depicted as riding the dragon sometimes.
Excellent video. I am currently in the process of building the foundatuion of a book series with a loosely defined dragon species as the central premise and this video has really helped me work out a couple of things and also caused me to consider or reconsider others and will go a long way to helping me with my project. Thank you. big, long-time fan and love the podcast too.
The greeks also have Drakaina (female dragons) that are half woman half dragon, which include echidna, kinda like the South/Southeast Asian naga that also inspire the dragons in Raya and the Last Dragon