Trope Talk: Lancers
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2020
- You remember the hero, right? Well, this is the person standing right next to them in all the photos! The second-in-command, the rival, the bestie, the life-partner - no matter the flavor, they're always The Lancer!
Who's your favorite lancer? Least favorite? Argue in the comments!
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*points at hero: "I like this one"
*points to lancer: "But I like this one better"
*Insert Jeremy Clarkson meme*
@@ANTICENA571 Sometimes my genius is... it's almost frightening
I get attached to hero’s to easily so for me
*points at hero* : OMFG I LOVE Y O U
*points at lancer* : baby bitch boi
"This, is great."
" *But I like this.* "
Tom Baxendale: hey man, what would Clarkson be without his Lancer’s in Hammond and May
Main character: red
Lancer: blue
Me: are you trying to tell us somthing? 🤔🤨
Oof
It's weirdly accurate? Both are equally knowledgeable and qualified to give educational entertainment but if you look at the most popular videos, all of them are Red's, when you sort by most popular, you have to scroll past 53 videos to find a video made by Blue.
@@grey3247 Yeah i think there are a lot less history nerds than people who are interested in random myths and shit
@@thelegend8570 I don't think there's necessarily less history nerds than people who like mythology, but rather there's such a huge plethora of history channels, that Blue's video don't really do something unique enough to stand out from other history channels that have been established long before OSP became more widely known (no offense Blue if on the off chance you read this, i still love your stuff). On the other hand, there's not as many channels that focus on mythology and literature so in this instance, Red's videos offer something that's harder to find and more unique, which in turn may attract more people compared to Blue. All in all, as long as they both just continue doing what they love, they ought to be fine
@@grey3247 That's weird, I actually found this channel from some of blue's vids, and didn't get into red's until later. Huh.
Normal narrative:
Die as a hero or live long enough to become a villain.
Dragon Ball:
Die as a villain or live long enough to become a Lancer.
Dragon ball is a rarity; giving us the luxury of both
Sometimes not even death can save you
Death?
*Laughs in Krillin*
@@GarkKahn Krillin was gifted immortality because be always rolls critical success on d6
Reminds me of shadow the hedgehog.
“Hey, remember when you killed like half of our friends”
“Yeah, that was a rough Tuesday”
That part killed me
Ah, so you were one of those friends.
Timestamp?
So you were one of the friends?
@@shade08538 I have never seen anyone else say that, definitely not in this comment section.
@@blizzardgaming7070 lies, i said “the”, you said “those” 🌨
Lancers: literary manifestations of "Always the bridesmaid, and never the bride".
All the more reason to provide solo arcs.
“Always the mom’s maid, never the mom?”
"...never the bride."
*FOR REAL?*
I am so sorry.
More like Sancho Groomsman.
That's kind of funny since there are a few pretty important examples of "the Lancer getting the girl", Han Solo being the most noticeable.
Its kind of amazing how Vegeta manages to be all of the Lancer types and none at the same time.
schrodinger lancer.
@@deadlock9174 that’s actually hilarious lmao.
there should be a new type called "vegeta lancers"
Well that's what a character arc is, isn't it?
I had no idea "lancer" came from "people who fight with a lance," I just sort of assumed it was a reference to *Lancelot*
I legit thought that too
He also fought with a Lance....
I thought it was because of the Saber and Lancer classes from Fate tbh
same, never considered that lancers literally meant someone who fights with a lance, bc as far as I was aware, knights used lances and spears first and swords were only side-weapons to unmounted combat, but now that I stop to think about it, it does kinda makes sense, they arent even talking about knights when they mean "lancer", they literally meant a completaly different rank in the medieval army, who only fights with lances and were considered "untrained" despite still helping
everyone's on horses, there is the trained noble knight , who can wield either sword or lance and always get recognized (Hero), and the lancer, who isnt even a knight but still helps A LOT and just isnt appreciated (Lancer), at least what I got from it
I definitely knew it was about dudes who fought with lances but I legit have no idea why. Doesn't make sense.
Then you come along and say Lancelot which makes ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD! He might have been one of the first 'Lancers' ever!
Weird how that works and I still have no idea why they are called Lancers or Dragons.
Lancer/hero dynamic: the personification of “two dudes chilling in a hot tub five feet apart cause they’re not gay.”
A Lancer is literally a natural indicator of making a dynamic between two foils gay.
I love it.
Except that they can be opposite genders too.
@@rainbowamelia9988 a dude and a chick chilling in a hot tub five feet apart cause they're not straight
@@orbracha25 lmao
*Hero:* "Um, hi...Can I help you?"
*Lancer:* "Yeah, the author hired me to stand next to you all day so you look better by comparison."
*Hero:* "That's ridiculous! I don't need a-"
*Audience:* "Hey, Hero. Did you get more interesting?"
*Hero (pulling Lancer in closer):* "YEAH!"
But a lot of times the lancer ends up more interesting than the protagonist
NeostormXLMAX ooh, can you give me an example?
Ah yes it isn't a video without a some guy or weird ninja in the comments 😌
Ah the mustache came back
@Finn Peterson everyone from LOTR
“The shipping is of course a natural consequence,”
See: All the people disappointed that Red is aro, so she and Blue aren't a thing
"natural" lol
@@justineberlein5916 What?! Red is aro? That's awesome!
luisa victoria I took a look at one of their QNAs and she specifically said that she's asexual and actually is interested or whatever in romance.
@@normalpeoplelikeme Oh. Ok.
This episode made me realize how weird Cyborg is in Teen Titans. He multiclasses Lancer and smart guy, as well as *looking* like the team's big guy.
Edit: ok so replies really wanna talk about beast boy. Seeing as hes comedy relief and what his powerset is, id argue Beastboy has heart, big guy, and a *secret third thing* as his tropey five man band roles. He's in a big guy/smart guy duo with cyborg despite cyborg beinv both bigger and smarter than him (in base form ofc). And Beastboy has sone of the sociability of the heart where Starfire has the emotional maturity. (Starfire also multiclasses big guy by having a very fighty power set and being tougher than she looks). I think of the team, Raven actually has the least five man band qualities, only really having the broodiness of a lancer, but instead of only directing that lancer-foilness at robin (the defacto leader), she directs it at the whole team.
I love how this leaves Beast Boy with zero five man band roles to speak of.
@@charziz6693 beast boy defies limits and tropes with sheer raw power
The Five-Man Band, like the Hero's Journey, makes a great analytical lens but a terrible writer's rubric.
Teen titans are probably not a great example tbh. Cyborg would be the Lancer but Beast boy sort of serves as Cyborgs lancer at times. Robin funtionally is the smart guy. In terms of strategy he is always the one to come up with a winning one. Even though IQ wise most likely Cyborg and Raven would have him beat. Starfire and Raven are more powerful than the rest of the team basically so they would sort of be the Big Guy but Starfire functions as the Heart and Raven is the obvious powerhouse but usually nerffed when the plot demands it. (I love how in so many episodes the bad guy has to throw tape over Ravens mouth or something so she can't crack out 3 words and molly wop the floor with everybody.) Beast boy also serves as the Heart to Ravens character arc.
The writers knew that every character on the show can fill almost any role of the 5 man band in different ways depending on the situation. Otherwise the characters would feel cliche and unreal.
WAIT A MINUTE! Does anyone else notice that when Red draws heroes, she usually makes them... well, red? And now talking about Lancers, they're blue? Maybe it's a coincidence, but its sweet to imply Blue is Red's lancer :')
Hahahahahaha
coincidence? I think NOT!
Yes and Indigo is their smart guy
Though Blue is Red’s Lancer quite frequently
@@joshuasgameplays9850has indigo ever been in a episode that’s not stream highlights?
Hero and villian: *epic fighting*
Lancer and dragon: *falling in love*
Shrek?
Brilliant. I must have this, somewhere.
Thank you for sparking up an idea for me!
What happens if the hero and dragon start falling in love and the lancer is not having it
I have an new idea for a story now, I’ll totally get to those other half-finished ideas sometime, maybe eventually.
Lancer trope: Stabbing self with own spear.
Happens more often than you might think
Lancer ga shinda!
Kono hito de nashi
"Curse you! CURSE YOU ALL!"
That, I suppose is the main reason why most spears had a spike on the bottom.
Yeah, that's not the reason, but I couldn't help myself.
My favorite type of Lancer has to be the "I have access to a technique that is super effective against the MC specifically, but I won't kill him because he's not evil" trope.
I don't remember any examples of this beyond Batman always keeping Kryptonite with him, but I want more of them because it helps solve the problems that power creep can introduce, since the lancer will always be capable of defeating the hero no matter how OP they get.
That was piccolo in the first part of the saiyan saga.
In the Fullmetal Alchemist manga, and the Brotherhood anime (I'm not sure if it was in the original anime), it's stated that Edward's younger brother, Alphonse, always won in physical combat between them. For a while, the only thing Ed had over his brother was his Alchemy skill, though that was soon rectified by story elements.
Alphonse can and does overpower his brother when need be, so as to keep him from doing something he could later regret. For example, he keeps Ed from accidentally beating someone to death early in the story
@@rodrigomorales563 And then the Makankosappo was never used again outside of filler where it did nothing and they gave Freeza a better version of it.
another one would be kusuke with kusuo in saki k
@@lindsayshanks7555 Perfect
Watching this, it occurred to me that in She-Ra, Catra starts off as Adora's Lancer before becoming Shadow Weaver's Dragon and Glimmer became Adora's new Lancer. This makes Glimmer and Catra's parallel arcs even more interesting in season 4 once they begin to gain more power, but still can't step out of Adora and Hordak's shadows. That show is so good.
also scorpia is catra's dragon
Huh
The Lancer has a triangle advantage over the Sword-Wielding Protagonist but needs help against the Bandits With Axes
The promoted lancer is there to carry the hero's weak ass in the early chapters with his OP starting stats, it doesn't even care about being weak on axes usually
Rafael Dapper... It’s a Fate/GrandOrder reference.
@@OliverIsanzi I thought it was a Fire Emblem reference lmao-
The lacer mostly needs protection from his idiot master how will make him kill himselve no mater wath
Blitzer Eventide nope if it was fgo it would’ve been archers instead of bandits with 32 hitrate poison axes
“Castlevania gave us a trio that became Oops! All Lancers.” I love that quote, really describes them all.
damn, I really need them all back together T.T
Its funny cause that sounds like something thatd be a quote directly from the show lol
@@jordanjoestar9096 in the writers room
writer 1: and then trevor, our protag, riffs off of Alucard to make fun of Sypha.
writer 2: that's great! but there's a lot of that going on don't you think?
writer 3: I agree.
writer 2: I think they're all lancers at this point
writer 1: oops?
writer 3: I agree.
@@gio-ve7vn did... did you just make the writer's all Lancers to eachother as well?!
@@NotTheLastSoL Of course, the writers have to write what they know, after all
Animated series about a lancer support group where famous lancers get together and vent about their frustrations with their positions in their stories
Oh, I'd love to see that! 😀
"if the hero has fire powers the lancer probably has ice powers"
Natsu and Gray: 👁👄👁
Uhm... Recca and Tokiya?
Shoto
@@enigmatic3194and also Shoto
About the Sherlock thing...I found this on TV tropes I think for the stoic cracks or something:
"You're not hurt, Watson? For God's sake, say that you are not hurt!" It was worth a wound - it was worth many wounds - to know the depth of loyalty and love which lay behind that cold mask. The clear, hard eyes were dimmed for a moment, and the firm lips were shaking. For the one and only time I caught a glimpse of a great heart as well as of a great brain."
- Sherlock Holmes, "The Three Garridebs"
I'm not much of a Holmes fan, but I subscribe to the idea that Watson exists to highlight Sherlock's humanity.
I like his characterization where he has a bunch if bad ass detective skills but he also has a sense of humor and let's Sherlock not be a bad Batman au fanfic where he has no robins. Maybe he's both the lancer and the heart.
@@chomp4577 In a duo dynamic, the Lancer very often will indeed be the heart if the hero is stoic and detached. Very much the case with Holmes and Watson.
That's a pretty accurate assessment.
Watson was often used to highlight Holmes's personal fails (like his drug habits and the vanity), but this is often hard to get at a surface level, because we got all the stories from Watson's perspective. In a very late work, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote a story from Holmes's perspective, where he often lamented the absence of Watson saying that his friend had some insane merits and qualities, which he routinely downplayed in his accounts.
Not to mention what happens afterwards. Holmes gives the guy who shot Watson a death glare and says: "By the Lord, it is as well for you. If you had killed Watson, you would not have got out of this room alive."
@@yves9055 Dang. Chills. I need to read this book.
2010: I wish I had a girlfriend...
2020: I wish I had a lancer...
This is how fandom culture get you.
Me, a lancer: I wish I had a protagonist...
Are they not the same?
Should they not be the same?
Hey!, why not both!
Kane Fisher See, this person gets it!
Regarding Lancers and resentment, usually I how interpret Lancers is that they're usually characters who, on paper are very powerful and perhaps ought to be 'the hero', but they frequently lack some kind of character trait that makes them the hero. For example, your stereotypical Lancer is usually cold, angry, and/or or cynical, and a bit of loner rather than a team player. By contrast, The Hero is usually more warm, idealistic, and personable. These personality traits make The Hero a better leader than The Lancer despite the latter being stronger theoretically.
So, Lancers aren't edgy because they lack the spotlight, they lack the spotlight because they're edgy.
Except that it can be the other way round. There are stories with edgy cynical heroes who often have more optimistic and outgoing lancers, e.g. the Witcher and Dandelion
@@chrisrudolf9839 Yeah, but those Lancers are less likely to hold resentment, because of it.
(Also, I love the "Lancers aren't edgy because they lack the spotlight, they lack the spotlight because they're edgy" because as a concequences, they can turn edgier if you think of it, because of the resentment XD)
That is very wise
@@chrisrudolf9839 a bit late, but can you truly call Dandelion/Jaskier Geralt's lancer? He strikes me more like a burden or tagalong since he's basically useless.
He is an excellent foil, though.
@@daviddaugherty2816 Maybe Dandelion wasn't the best example, you are right that he is more of a comic relief sidekick than a lancer, if we require a lancer to be a valuable assistant in battle (like a literal lancer would be). There are certainly other examples with cynical/edgy heroes and more cheerful/sociable lancers.
Maybe Goblinslayer and that priest girl whose name I can't recall right now would be a more fitting example. (One could probably make a case that actually priestgirl is the MC in that, at least she is the POV character, but Goblinslayer is the title hero and he is the far more experienced adventurer who takes the lead in their missions.
Roronoa Zoro from One Piece is one of my favorite lancers. Generally far more stoic and serious than Luffy but understands him, has the utmost loyalty to his captain, and is more than willing to call him out when he needs to. He also gets plenty of moments to shine on his own
And he is just the best ^^
I'm nearly 200 episodes in and he does not get NEARLY enough moments to shine on his own. I think he got exactly 1 in the entire Skypiea arc? Which lasted for like 30 episodes btw
@@blahthebiste7924 hmm, keep watching
"What happened here? Nothing at all."
Usopp would then be a vitriolic bestie right? At least in the water 7 arc
"Hey remember when you killed like half our friends?"
"That was a rough Tuesday"
As much as I'm interested in learning how to write these characters, the little illustrations are distracting in the best ways
The day I killed half you friends was the most important day in your life. But for me it was Tuesday
I tend to rewatch OSP videos a lot so I can see the illustrations better
I always have to pause and rewind these videos. And I love that they make me do that.
@@MercuryA2000 Same
I can almost smell the markers
*Hero and Lancer interact*
Fandom: so anyways, I started shipping
Gilgamesh and Enkidu in a nutshell
I'm a bit tired of people commenting on how they don't want to ruin the 69 likes, but this time it seemed fitting.
Damn it, I fell for Hero Lancer shipping. I just realized in Little Witch Academia that Diana is literally Lancer to Akko's Hero, and I fucking ship them.
The only big ships I've sailed are lancer-lancer ships. Biggest ones for me are Finn and Poe from Star Wars, plus Stiles and Derek from Teen Wolf. (Yes I watched Teen Wolf don't @ me lol)
Fandom: so there they were barbecue sauce all over their titties.
Red: "the shipping is of course a natural conscience"
Me: What if you the author does the shipping before the fans get the chance huehuehue
Red: mentions the life long partner lancer type
Me: oh nice
Hey quick question from one writer to another, do you ever ship your own characters despite not actually wanting the relationship to be cannon?
@@totallycrazystudios1801 unless if you mean I'll kill off one of them before it gets canon for plot development ye
@@alanp741
No I just mean you like it as a ship but it isn't cannon nor will it ever be.
@@totallycrazystudios1801 no I haven't
@@alanp741
Oh ok
It's always a welcome dramatic moment when the protagonist hands off their well-earned "crown" to the lancer in the end.
True! I love when this happens.
One of my favorite versions of this was in V:LD. Shiro started as the Leader with Keith as his Lancer, but after the Season 2 Finale, he passed on the role of Leader to Keith, and Lance stepped in to be Keith's Lancer (heh). When Kuron entered the picture and Keith left for the Blades of Marmora, they then turned into mutual Lancers, playing off each other to get better, before returning to a Keith/Lance Leader/Lancer dynamic in the final seasons when Shiro came back but stepped down as a Paladin of Voltron, altogether. The changes felt natural, and they bounded off of each other really well. Keith and Lance's Leader/Lancer relationship is one of my favorites in the show, and one I love exploring with friends. Just perfect.
Lancer: Hero, your ideas are stupid and im going to leave you here
Villain, standing behind a bush with lasso: *oh yeah im about to ruin this mans whole career*
200 likes and no comments? *How about n o*
*DONUT TROUGH THE CHEST WHILE VICTIM DISTRACTED TIME*
@@kobinpaizlimona9088 diavolo be like
Jaskier!
This series has helped me understand the scientific reason why Avatar: The Last Airbender is GREAT
Edit: WOW! 1,200 people agree with me! Thanks for the likes!
You should check out Hello Future Me for that as well
Best show. Feel free to at me, you won't change my mind. Christopher. No. You are mistaken.
@@last-of no, you're correct
@@salimaa9209 There's this one guy. So- unfortunately it's not unanimous yet.
@@last-of Kill him, dew it
I think Gumball and Darwin have a interesting hero/lancer dynamic. Simply because the hero in this instance is the snarky sarcastic more morally grey one while the lancer is the ball of sunshine who keeps the hero from going off the edge, when usually it's the reverse. Kind of a fun dynamic shift.
Oh my God I just made a comment about wanting this, what show is this from?
@@loganelfreecs9980The Amazing World of Gumball, though keep in mind that they don’t really have this dynamic in the first season. If you want an episode that goes into their Lancer/Hero dynamic, ‘The Sidekick’ is a good one.
Sauske knew he’d be a lancer so he tried to just be the big bad. Then noticed there were bigger bads.....now he’s narutos lancer 😂
He technically goes from Lancer to dragon then goes back to being a Lancer xD
He's just a punching bag nowadays
@@sonicsucks20 well, he is alway a punching bag from my perpective. Every enemies he ever beat wasn't even powerful or influence to begin with.
@@tai1364 Sasuke beat people like deidara and danzo and if that doesn't count. Most of the super strong people that naruto beat like kaguya, momoshiki or juubito was with help from sasuke.
Actually he's sakuras lancer.
When you think of it, dnd is oops all Lancers if done right.
That could also apply to Band Class
My group actually made a five man band for a campaign it’s been working out pretty well, what’s been different is with these character roles we all actually play a lot better, everyone contributes equally, but rather than argue over how to do things we now tend to refer to the expert on whatever topic and just let them call the shot.
I hate how right this is.
IMO Each character should have a chance to be the "hero" a some point, while every other character acts as a lancer to the hero du jour.
I would argue that it's oops all heroes as well if done right, like an ensamble cast series or the Anakin/Obi-wan example, but interparty dynamics are great. In the last campaign I played it was fun to do the interplay of our duo. We had my Warlock who was a cynical mercenary adopting somewhat of a mentor role to my buddies monk, who never really drew any attention to it but followed his lead. And the monk was naive and inexpirianced, but made my warlock smile and bought him a few drinks. and they both saved each other from getting dropped . It was also funny to see the contrast to our patrons. Mine was motherly and sweet, and the messenger kitsune from her order just dropped stuff on her lap, sometime literally, and just left without giving any hints.
"if the hero has fire powers the lancer has ice powers" todoroki is his own lancer then
I mean, Todoroki and Bakugo are kinda lancers to Izuku. While Izuku is nerdy, calm and nice, Todoroki is cool and cold towards other people and bakugo is rude and explosive (in every senese of the word. They all want to become heros, but the heros that they aim to be are very different.
@@melonlord1414 i think he was joking
@@zandi1603 Yeah, and I wasn't muhahahahaha
@@melonlord1414 todoroki as astonishingly little cold. Usualy the loner with great grades is an asshole without any teamplayer abilities. Todoroki is nothing like that, he is a great teamplayer, kompetent and confident but with no hesitation to follow anothers lead, offers help unpromted and looks out for others without signs of thinking himself better than them.
I realy like his characterisation of makeing him a great lancer to izuku without the typical conflict. As opposite as they look at first glance, they realy are not. Both are deeply loyal, respecting other peoples abilities and oppinions, willing to listen, have a strong moral compas and want to protect others. Main difference is Izuku beeing more impulsiv and selfsacraficial as well as trying to cuddel up with everyone while Todoroki feels more comfortable beeing an observer and staying levelheaded.
@@melonlord1414 Deku is the leader/heart/smart guy(but only if momo isn’t present). Bakugou is the lancer 10000% todoroki is mostly a big guy. Ochako is usually the heart when she actually gets screentime and momo is always the smart guy.
The phrase “oops! All lancers!” Sent me into a fit of giggling
2:38 I love how they talked about the Lieutenant character type, with footage of THE Lieutenant.
Riza Hawkeye or Arcee?
@@JaelinBezel I was talking about Hawkeye.
It’s also kinda funny because riza Hawkeye is essentially a second order lancer, as Mustang is pretty clearly Ed’s lancer
One of the more interesting lancer characters is James Rhodes from Iron Man.
While Rhodes has flaws of his own (as every Marvel hero should), everywhere Stark has a flaw, Rhodes has a virtue. Stark is unreliable, Rhodes is reliable. Stark has bad people skills, Rhodes has good people skills.
Thus, Rhodes makes the flaws of the main character seem worse just by being in the same scene with him.
Conversely, because Rhodes is virtuous, it gives Stark a goal on how to be better than he is now even with all the good that he does.
Rhodes also does have a flaw of his own (depending on the moment): he's much less likely to question authority or power structures. While this particular aspect isn't really explored much, it would be easy to make it a point of contention for a heavy plotline.
@@HaydenX Which also makes it a more important moment when Rhodey DOES defy authority. In Infinity War Ross orders Rhodey to arrest Cap, Rhodey says he'll do it but then cuts off the hologram, saying "that's a court martial," before moving on to help them out.
@@Randoman590 There’s also a lot of irony in the fact that their foil relationship is still preserved here - just in reverse. Rhodes is defying orders to help out Cap and the gang right after Iron Man, who chafes under any authority, willingly accepts governmental supervision in Civil War.
@@bharathram8848 You have to understand tonys reasoning
What I hated about civil war is how it showed Captain America to be totally in the right
When both were in the wrong
If Cap had his way Heroes would not be held accountable for there actions
In a lot Comics the heroes do just as much damage as the villains
While if Tony got his way , heroes would not be able to react in time
So both are in the wrong
“Like if you’re a strict pacifist who doesn’t kill, your lancer will step in and take out that really annoying bad guy...”
Obi Wan: *doesn’t want to kill the dude threatening to blow up the ship they’re on*
Villain: “Who will strike first and brand themselves a cold blooded killer?”
Anakin: *causally back stabs the bish*
"What, he was gonna blow up the ship!"
This sounds like son Wukong
Or Vegeta on Namek, killing Friezas mass-murdering elite force after Goku spared them.
@@leiferikson850 also correct
Oh I saw that one.
I really wanna see a story where the protagonist IS the chosen one, but the Lancer is actually part of ANOTHER prophecy/actually plays a major role with the Chosen One (maybe the only person who helps the Chosen One to actually make the best decision possible)
Percy Jackson sounds similar to what you are suggesting.
@@bhuvanchinta2124 Yeah, I read that series. One of my all time favourites. I'm just getting around to reading the one where they meet the Roman kids.
mistborn trilogy by brandon sanderson sorta has that, though not always through directly established prophecy. There's a lot of people who in my eyes might fit into the role of a chosen one, but none of them in the same ways.
I wanna see a story where the main character takes care of the chosen one and leads them to their destiny.
I feel that wold be more interesting to see a chosen one with less confidence and skills be build into the hero they should be by a mentor protagonist.
The only book close to this is mistborn but it doesn't fully apply since the majority of the perspective is from the chosen one, and the 2nd and 3rd books don't have the mentor POV.
@@resentfuldragon sussy
I love playing the lancer in D&D. When the group are making characters I try to figure out who will take the role of leader and make a lancer for them.
Same. I just love coming up with different dynamics and also admittedly gravitate toward more roguey types overall, who fall under your stereotypical lancers. I mean, Star Wars? I'd rather be a Han Solo than a Skywalker. Pathfinder's Wrath of the Righteous? Oh, Imma play rogue cleric to your paladin. Kingmaker? Sneak sneak sneak. You go ahead and hulk smash, Boss.
A five man band, but it's "oops, all lancers". I wanna see that.
But imagine five man bands but they consist entirely of each of the archetypes. Like a five man band of big guys.
Merritt Animation I think that was firefly
@@merrittanimation7721 That would be a lot of characters...you can kind of do that with hats, I suppose. Also I think the five man band tends to be relative, so it's hard to have everyone be one thing all the time. Like how in Heroes of Olympus *and* Voltron all but like 1 of the main cast become leaders in their own right but are still in subordinate roles to the leaders of their groups.
@@merrittanimation7721 A big band perhaps?
The webcomic Order of the Stick sort of has that, it has one clear lead Hero, and the five other main characters under him all playing Lancer roles at various times in the story, each in completely different ways
I always thought lancers were called “lancers” as an homage to Lancelot, who is essentially the lancer to the stories of King Arthur.
Same
They are. Lancelot was the OG Lancer archetype, so the trope was named after him.
Yep you're right on the money
But didn't Lancelot steal Arthur's wife?
That's Lances-a-lot-of-married-women to you.
“The shipping is a natural consequence” reminds me of one of my favorite leader-lancer pairs, Qibli and Winter
but who was the leader there? i never figure it out. winter was bossy, but qibli's the plan guy
@@getinloserweregoingshopping947 they take turns with the braincell
Gotta say, I'm a huge fan of characters being mutual lancers to each other. Gives all characters involved a lot more opportunity for complexity since they can play different roles in different scenarios.
Which is part of why Netflix Castlevania was so damn good. It wasn't one super person dragging their friends along on a crusade, it was three real and flawed people doing what needed done.
Main Protagonist, and his [[STAND]], Lancer.
Main Antagonist, and his [[STAND]], Dragon.
Shizaaaaa
@Drake Petty Bowser Jr.
Bright, if anything, your lancer is yourself
Stand User: Johnathan Joestar
Stand Name: Robert E.O Speedwagon.
BBC Sherlock: *Says nothing while Watson asks direct questions, then calls Watson an idiot for not realizing something that not even the audience was privy to.*
Septuple She meant the original Sherlock Holmes, not the one that turned into a trash fire.
McAfee put *4* verification checkmarks next to your comment, it must be more secure than area 51.1
True friendship right there.
Her commentary on how Watson is a badass and deserves respect is why I like the RDJ and Jude Law films and the Elementary series so much.
@@nbncbnc
Honestly I love Elementary the way they made Watson a doctor hired by Sherlock's father was a great way to both give her an actual reason to stay with Sherlock in the beginning when he was a petulant brat (which the BBC series flat-out didn't do despite him being a massive prick in that show as well) and a set of useful skills that Sherlock doesn't have allowing her to be able to have her own moments in the spotlight
"So we infiltrate teh easter gate" Hero
"AND THEN I START HITTING?" Lancer
"Got it in one" Hero
As a Tank, this speaks to me on a friendly emotional level.
Sounds like a good infiltration tactic that also satisfies the battlehungry berserker in the squad, assuming he can take it. Let him cause a giant ruckus and fight at one end of a compound while the sneaky guy strolls through the now unguarded opposite side. Extraction will be an issue though, once the mission is done.
That moment when you realise that your character is becoming your rpg-group's lancer
Heh. I tend to gravitate toward this role in almost every game we make. I just love playing off people
I'm just the IRL lancer
I hate it when that happens with my pasta
Yeah, after watching the Five-Man Band video I realized my character and one other character constantly switch between Leader and Lancer roles depending on the story.
Who hopes that the next Trope Talk is “Self Awareness”?
*_[Deadpool has entered the chat]_*
Robin Hood: I’m supposed to win. Where’s the script?
Of course YOU would say that, Gwenpool.
That’d be a fun one
That would be interesting. And a very fun watch.
“Oh no! My ironclad morals!” “Our what now?” Dick Grayson’s Batman and Damian Wayne’s Robin?
Really any given Batman and Robin, including Jean-Paul Valley and Tim Drake.
@@DarkestElemental616 Dick Grayson's Robin had ironclad morals.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 daimien was a little murderess deamon child from hell and it was glorious
The original Evangelion actually approached the concept of a lancer getting jealous of the protagonist in a really cleaver way. The protagonist they started production with but decided not to keep is still a character, just is constantly getting one upped by the character they created to replace them.
Those characters being….?
@@JaelinBezel The character Asuka was originally going to be the protagonist (or at least a character like her was) but the director was encouraged to change it since she was too much like the main character from his last show.
A big part of her development throughout the series is her getting frustrated with how the world seemingly revolves around Shinji, the series' real protagonist even though she was raised believing she was the most important person in the world; and how on top of that he's not even all that different from her, even having the same type of backstory.
I appreciate how many clips of Ben 10 AF you included in this presentation. Kevins definitely one of my favorite lancers since hes got his own equally interesting backstory that ties in his continuous involvement and spicy dynamics with Ben and Gwen in a very believable way.
Lancer/dragon rivalry ?
"Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
With the added bonus of being one of the most trope heavy lines of all times.
“I could give you my word as a Spaniard.”
“No good! I’ve known too many Spaniards.”
Watched that movie a hundred times and it’s still funny
I literaly just watched that movie, this is a very weird coincidence lmfao
@sluttyMapleSyrup
Man in Black: You're that smart?
Vizzini: Let me put it this way-have you ever heard of Plato? Aristotle? Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes?
Vizzini: Morons.
@@thecharmingone3931 still can't get over how the trio stood from shortest to tallest and keep a straight face at the same time
@@Duplicitousthoughtformentity As an Spaniard, I can assure you of the truth in that quote.
*hero:* hi, i'm the main focus of this story and am meant to be the character most favoured by the audience. i am also meant to be seen as heterosexual
*lancer: i'm about to end this man's whole career*
*female lancer:* Yeah, I'm gonna have to ask you to leave...
or ace
@@Blu_Moon_VA *female lancer's queercoded rival:* ;)
Shippers: *KISS KISS FALL IN LOVE*
You mean, lancer: i'm about to end this man's whole heterosexual career
This video just made me notice a small detail in a game called Deltarune (minor spoilers)
Lancer in both chapters 1 and 2 has always been a best friend and former enemy to one of the main characters, Susie, in turn making him a lancer, since Susie is one of the main three hero’s of light.
Toby named him LANCER, and he’s a LANCER.
I love this game.
It's also cute that Susie gets her own lancer after ditching the heros, as she's a lancer/big guy (and honestly partially the heart too) to Kris, both being distant weirdos from the community, tho one self isolates while the other lashes out.
"I've had it with you, Tennyson always beating me when we were kids, everything always going your way! I get turned into a freak, you become a world-famous superhero!" -Kevin Levin
05:02 "the lancer exists to highlight the hero. That's actually relly depressing."
I SO had to think about Ron Weasly, who CONSTANTLY got pushed away because of
1. his best friend
2. his girl friend who is the best in the class
3. his older brother who is very succesfull in kissing asses
4. his older brother who is a genious joker
5. his other older brother who constantly helps his joker brother with their skeems
6. his little sister
I love Ron and hate what the movies made with him: they pushed him constantly away. XD
Omg yes! The movies made Ron the comic relief and I hate that
Ok so I wasn't the only one thinking that-
IKR! In the first movie he was a frickin Master at Wizards Chess!
Then as they went on; just the dork, then kinda annoying, before being straight-up an Ass.
I wish they had really developed his Strategic mind, so he would be the one to get them out of a jam by thinking of something clever!
Ron is bad
@@skullsquad900 Yeah I feel like his entire character was cheated. It would have been nice to see him be really good at strategy instead of Hermione you know? That way there'd be character balance. It would make him bounce off of Harry and Hermione more.
Wow, the lancer class really is made out of lancers.
lancer ga shinda kono hito de nashi
Archer class: *sweats nervously*
Mmm *looks at servant list* more like spearmen
One of the most astute comments in this entire dialogue.
Lancers work as a narrative device because they are derived from actual historical battle tactics but also nicely represent our every day lives.
Ransa ga shinda!
I would consider Merlin from the BBC Merlin series to be a really good lancer, despite being the main protagonist. He’s always by Arthur’s side, he’s constantly questioning Art’s judgment, but he also has complete faith in Art’s central character and he makes that faith clear when needed. He provides sarcastic banter, he tends to feel under appreciated in comparison to Art, hell, Merlin and Arthur even have the red-blue color dynamic! Idk y’all, I just really love Merlin.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Zuko in the whole video. He seems like he fits into a bunch of different lancer tropes.
OH NO! MY
*IRONCLAD*
*MORALS!!!*
"our what now"
@taniths 1st and only sgt iron on duty Ah yes, like the time my chaotic neutral warlock tried to give an enemy a chance to surrender, and then our _lawful good_ paladin walked up and killed him.
@@benl2140 Wait did the paladin kill the warlock or the enemy?
@@artofthepossible7329 the enemy I think.
@@artofthepossible7329 The enemy.
*Looks at Voltron, specifically the character named Lance* : Hey wait a minute
Plus, he's kinda Keith's lancer, and Keith is Shiro's lancer... it's lancers all the way down.
Cendaquenta Books and Hunk is Lance’s lancer
And Pidge for Hunk,
Red has done a 5 man band video and uses voltron as an example. She explained that she found the the team's positions (she made the video before season 3) confusing because of the roles Shiro, Keith, and Lance portrayed. Like you said, Keith was the Lancer to Shiro but Lance was the lancer to Keith.
Which version? Because in the newest series Shiro is technically the hero while Lance is a lancer to Keith and Keith is the lancer to Shiro. So, it's a lancer parade in there.
Personally I’m in favor of renaming this trope: “The Vegeta”
So instead of making a little bit of sense to everyone, you think it should make zero sense to most people so it can make perfect sense to a few?
@@Ruiluth dude. You’re kind of being an ass. Dragon Ball has inspired almost all modern Shonen, and even western stories. Almost every aspect has inspired other works in various ways. The Vegeta makes more sense than I think you realize, as he is an extremely influential lancer character. Most modern anime and manga lancers are based off of him. I didn’t even know that the term “lancer” even referred to actual lancers until this video. But I knew Vegeta, and knew he is a lancer. Point is, don’t be a dick. Besides, I’m pretty sure this commenter wasn’t serious anyways.
@@Ruiluthyes
Came back to watch this video because I started watching Thundercats (2011). The first episode does so much to set up how much Tygra is superior to Lion-o in literally every way (speed, combat, respected by others) except being royal-by-bloodline. I braced myself for him to be the kind of edgy, jealous, constantly bitter kind of lancer. But, in the same episode, the moment he jumps into defend Lion-o against an angry mob (despite disagreeing with him belief-wise) reassured me that the show wouldn't ignore a brotherly dynamic and wouldn't just be sniping all the time.
Overly sarcastic production also has such interchangeable "Lancers" both Red and Blue act as it.
My exact thought
Or maybe they're both protagonists and the lancer is one of the editors. Spooky
osp: The Lieutenant
Me: Please have Hawkeye
osp: has Hawkeye
me: *happy nerd noises*
There are multiple Hawkeye in fiction so I was secretly thinking of Hawkeye from mash
@@DioBrando-yk5up yeah i was thinking about hawkey from fmab
Lancer: shows multiple examples of characters that fit the trope
Lieutenant: just Hawkeye
And we wouldn't want it any other way.
I expected it and was not surprised.
@@jasonkeith2832 Who else do we expect to keep Roy Mustang, a man genuinely prone to going lose cannon, on the right path. Hurt his Lance, I dare you
Red: Best friends, love interest, roommates
Me without a second thought: omg they were roommates
Voltron's Lance realizing his name stands for a character trope 👀
"Or at least neutral"
Ty Lee: **Oh no what have I done face**
good to see another *Avatar: the last airbender* fan
"Or at least neutral"
Ty Lee: Can I just go back to circus pretty please :c
@@wanjikuwangondu7032 There are two kinds of people in this world: people who are fans AtLA, and people who haven't seen it.
"sometimes it's the lancers job to be mistrusting of everyone"
killua from hxh in a nutshell
meed0k mika from owaru no seraph. Basically his entire character (arc, it seems) post-joining the team.
Actually, now that I think about it, they are both the white-haired, morally-grey, dignified lancers to the black-haired, trusting and energetic good uwu boy protagonists. Except that (at the risk of offending people... i like ons, guys), HxH is infinitely better written khhh
also Zoro from One Piece, and Haley from Order of the Stick
@@epheoko we should be friend
@@epheoko Gon isn't exactly a paragon of goodness either. He's pure yes but not good.
ArtofthePossible oh, absolutely. Gon is a very interesting character in that regard. Chimera Ant arc. Maaan.
8:04
I'm cackling bc that's my current d&d character in a nutshell
He's a drow, and only very recently escaped the underdark.
The party is trying very hard to rehabilitate him, and at this point it's become a two-way adoption because as far as he's concerned, these people are genuinely incapable of spotting bad intentions/ulterior motives, and he's the only one willing to get his hands dirty.
Just realized that the hero is red and the Lancer is blue. Does that mean that Red sees Blue as her Lancer?
Probably
Bucky and Sam both make great contrasting Lancers to Steve. Can’t wait for their upcoming TV series, Lancer and the Winter Lancer.
There is a lot of Lancers in this show... should it be called Lance-a-Lot?
The Flying Lancer and the Winter Lancer.
That show sucked
@@linkonedgell894 it was pretty bad but I did like the more chill aspects of it. It was sorta nice to see what the heroes do when they’re not beating up baddies
another acceptable title:
Trope Talk: Vegetas
Not quite. Vegeta is just one kind of Lancer. just the most obvious case.
Luigi if he had a spine. Or when he's not fighting ghosts.
sasuke
@@drunkredninja Well not really. Naruto is a ninja parody series, every character in it is a ninja fiction trope. In a serious series Sasuke would BE the dark brooding hero. Naruto would be his side kick lancer who shows him his single minded focus on revenge and lone wolf tendencies makes him weaker. Sakura would be his love interest lancer. The whole point was to write the story from the comedic foil sidekick's point of view but the story kinda got away from the author at some point.
@@thenecessaryevil2634 Is this true? I've always viewed Naruto as just an underdog story, showing that talent doesn't always outshine hard work. Personally this seems far more likely to base the story off, and makes more sense with how it progressed. With the main character being a almost talent less loser, that is somehow gonna try keeping up with the gifted child by never stopping his pushes to grow as a ninja. Then you get to see the result of the hard work later in the series. Which then turns its focus from underdog tale to revenge is bad hate is bad story telling.
The one I think of when Red described the lancer being resentful of the hero was Ron from Harry Potter, 100% fills that role
5:53 don’t worry red, I have vauge memories of watching it as a kid and barely understanding the plot but enjoying the fighting.
Lancer: Weak to Sabers and Strong against Archers
Also generally unlucky.
Thought the weapon triangle was Lances > Swords > Axes > Lances. :P
That's the Fire Emblem Weapon Triangle, but they were talking about the Fate Grand Order Class Advantage scheme
Eyy
Tends to stab him self or die in a not honoreble way
"Lancers do what the hero can't."
*remembers Cu, Diarmuid, Vlad, Karna, and Leonidas*
Oh, you mean die permanently story-wise. Got it.
Wasnt karna the only one who escaped the "death by master ordering arash on them" fate?
@@betterdevils8734 Where is that because besides FGO I don't know anywhere where Arash and Karna meet.
Though Karna still didn't die due to his master. He died to worst homonculus.
@@Nobody-qo7vh that was a joke on Stella
@@ellias5820 I am a fool...
Well, they were killed, so it only makes sense that they died.
Heres an idea:
The protagonist of a story fills a lancer role for a side character who eventually becomes the villain through a negative change arc
Berserk lol guts seems like a lancer to Griffith till "the event"
That's literally attack on titan
@@59vibhusharma31 gotcha. I was talking about the side character becoming the villain, not the protagonist. What I'm doing is a reluctant protagonist playing lancer to a stalwart paladin who eventually becomes disillusioned with his king, loses faith in humanity, and basically goes full incel nihilist shooter evil. The main character has to go from the cool lancer who maybe taught the paladin to not be so uptight and allow for people's flaws and now has to be the one to take out his friend because he's a danger to others and the MC just got his own faith in humanity back the hard way.
One of the biggest problems i've seen is that writers don't write people. the tropes don't bend around the character, the cheareter bend around the trope. when i'm tring to right i say "i want this to happen, how wound this person react?" it's more believeable if characters are written like people.
This reminds me of a term I heard in high school and college, the "loyal opposition." This basically boils down to the character is loyal but they still question their friends and will sometimes be vocal about it, sometimes even calling everyone else in the group out on their shit.
Isn't that just friendships in a nutshell? lol
If my friends aren't questioning me, they aren't my friends.
So, batman and the justice league? 😂
@@bulletsunderpressure yeah until it backfires because his dumbass creates the villain.
Watching this made me want a Julius Caesar anime. The dude had lancers for days. Crassus, Pompey, Labienus, Marcus Antonius, even Cleopatra. Like everyone in the dudes life was basically his lancer.
when you're such a protagonist to everything happening that every other human is your lancer
Marcus Antonius, yes, the rest - ehhhhhh. I feel like the Triumvirate were more three (or two) main characters in their own right, that is why it also came crashing down so hard when Crassus died.
Edit: My history professor once refered to Markus Antonius as "Kleopatra's VII. Lover" so there's that on that. He might've been the hero in Rome, but I surely prefer to think of her as the hero in her own kingdom
The closest thing we have is the webtoon "Nowhere and Everywhere", though only Caesar and Cleopatra make an appearance and only serve as some of the supporting characters.
Nah, Cleopatra is an assassin not a lancer
Or just watch HBOs Rome?
My favorite thing in the world is two vitriolic bestie lancers lancing off each other, that’s probably I’ve been making a whole story about that type of duo.
I'm just shilling for the Tales series in this comment section for real. But seriously if that's your favorite, play Tales of Vesperia on Switch. It's this
Was going to make a stupid joke about Lancer Deltarune but I feel like it actually fits, goddamit Toby strikes again
Iroh spent the first season being Zuko's dragon 🤔
And now I can't help but wonder if his "dragon of the west" title was a pun
Francisco Vargas this is kind of mind blowing.
I’d really love to see a “Comic Relief” Trope Talk. It’s something that can really elevate the story if dine well but also be really annoying when done poorly.
You speak truth stranger. If youre really hankering for comic relief commentary, I think the terrible writing advice channel did a video on it. He's no Red, but hes not bad.
zappers!
You either get Thor in Ragnarok, or jar jar binks
Seems like a good topic for a collab with TWA.
She already did that if I remember correctly
HOHOHO, MY BIKE IS FUELLED BY VICORYYY!!!!"
- dark jack lancer
After watching trope talks and this channel as a whole for what is now years I am for the first time today getting to use this material in a professional setting on my first gig as a narrative designer for a video game. OSP was the first place I went for research. Thank you for all you have and continue to teach me
osp: lancer
fate fans: flashbacks
(lancer rights PLEASE)
LANCER GA SHINDA!
@@regretsin8502 KONO HITO DE NASHI
when you realize lancer is a literal AND figurative lancer
Lancer's lancer is luigi
God I thought she referring to Cú this WHOLE TIME
"Oops All Lancers!" I will never get tired of that joke. Breakfast cereal based humor is the best.
I too love jokes based on Breakfast cereal. They're grrreat!
@@Archflip DID YOU JUST
I used to feel the same way, until that joke completely ruined the emotional depth of the season finale song of A series of unfortunate events on Netflix.
"Oops! All sorrows and woes"
Absolutely awful
I don't get it. what's the product?
@@idongesitusen5764 cap'n crunch oops all berries. It became a meme.
She is genuinely teaching me about character creation and story telling. Like I’ve roleplayed so much dnd and never realized all Emmy relationships fall into one of these categories. So interesting!
The best example of the best lancer: Prince Zuko from Avatar TLA.
It really fits the description from this video
When I hear Lancers i thought of a blue hair guy in a blue body suit and red spear
Who dies. A lot. Its supposed to be sad and emotional but everyone yells, "LANCER GA SHINDA" followed by, "KONO HITODINASHI."
Really? I was thinking of a pale white man in gold armor being stabbed by a piece of cardboard
I thought of lancer from deltarune
Mario Mario, the great Italian Spearman
Bruh.
Suggestion for the next Trope Talk: Party Scattering? A.k.a when the heroes get separated for some reason or another and then have to find each other again, typically undergoing solo arcs in the process.
Bonus points if the Lancer ends up with a Lancer of his own who totally annoys him the entire episode, and in later episodes realizes how much of a jerk he is to the Leader.
NEVER SPLIT THE PARTY!!!!
It never goes well your barbarian gets roasted your cleric gets an incurable disease your rouge is nowhere to be found
Basically NEVER SPLIT THE PARTY IT NEVER GOES WELL
@@jessewillason2064 If your cleric can even get an incurable disease you needed a better cleric anyway. What the point of being a god-botherer if you can't shake off a case of leprosy or regrow some severed limbs or whatever? :)
@@jessewillason2064 That's why villains love to arrange just that kind of situation.
@@jessewillason2064 dammit i missed the chance to say that
You read the _Red Hood and the Outlaws_ comics? You're like the first CZcamsr whose channel isn't entirely about comics that I've seen reading this stuff. It's like you get cooler with every video.
Ok the drawing at 12:25 totally made me wanna go "Aaannd Peggy"
The description of castlevania as being "oops all lancers" just made me want to watch it more than your repeated recommendations. :V
My favorite version of this is in samurai flamenco where all the characters have to come out in superhero costumes and they start conflicting because they all chose to be the red ranger.
Just skip season 2 and you'll have a blast.
@@rdsasuke1 yes after Dracula was defeated the series plumipted down
Seriously, watch it! Every single season is wonderful, and while there are a few questionable twists down the line, it's enjoyable. Every single character (except for two, but I won't say their names because spoilers) has a valid and understandable motive for the things they do, even if the things are morally incorrect. Just a good show overall.
@@eamonnirwin5558 No actually i mean EVERYTHING in regards to the writing was horrible in season 2, rest of the series is good but for that feels like the writers got fired and the animators had to wing it. Dracula's fate has nothing to do with it, also props for being a dick and posting spoilers on a comment of someone considering to start watching the show.
"(lancer) ends often with more fans than the hero"
Me: thats why the lancer dies often in the sequel because the writer wants his hero to be the number one
Lancer ga shinda!!
But the author of Naruto loved Sasuke a lot
@@ShadowReaper425 Quite a few people think that for some reason, but the only thing Kishimoto said was that Sasuke was his favourite character *to draw.*
Oh... I just got called out. And I haven't even made a draft for my story yet.
Does it not count if I like the lancer more?
I did something like this actually, but it was against myself. I had a lancer that I loved way too much and was basically writing into the spotlight rather than the protagonist, so I killed him to make sure I couldn't do that lol
Vegeta hits so many of the variations of the lancer trope it actually makes me appreciate his character more
Everyone remember the TV show Merlin? A story where the main character was the Lancer.