Shadow the Hedgehog: A Character in Ruin | Sonic the Hedgehog Discussion
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- #shadowthehedgehog #sonicadventure2 #sonicthehedgehog
I've never done a video on Shadow before, so here you go.
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~Music~
Shadow's Infiltration from Sonic 06
Supporting Me (Virtual Reality) from Sonic Forces
Westopolis (Enemy Territory) from Sonic Forces
Before the Story by Toby Fox (from "Deltarune")
Flame Core - Volcano from Sonic 06
Rhythm and Balance (Eggman's Facility) from Sonic Forces
I only needed one person to tell me about the Shadow the Hedgehog final boss, you guys can stop now
bLaCk DooOoOoooOoOOooM
Lord Danny Shadow is a good boi with depression not an edgelord
Crimson Prince he doesn’t have depression, he’s just some dumb emo
2010 era is the worst they ruin all the characters
I agree
Shadow: They have ruined my character turning me into a dark overpowered edgy angsty emo girl with somewhat sad attitude.
Tails: Hold my Chao.
Tails: A boy who looked up on Sonic, but later don't rely on Sonic and become a hero that can inspire other.
SEGA: *Makes him the literally opposite of how he was.*
@Mr. Man Guy Tails grew past relying on Sonic during Sonic Adventure 1 & 2. So no, he wasn't always like that. But now he's a weak, borderline useless character.
They ruined tails as well especially in forces tails became a huge pussy who can't defend himself even though we have seen him fight amongst sonic numerous times.
Knuckles: hold my M.E
I blame the morons that complain about sonic having freinds, which is a stupid criticism ! So Mario can have freinds but not sonic, wtf?!
I know it's not a super popular opinion, but I've *always* appreciated 06's portrayal of Shadow. Ironically, it's far better than his own game at making him a unique character with his own story and arc and I wish we got more of that
I'd say it is a popular opinion. Story wise, Shadow's story was the best part of 06.
"Shadow the Hedgehog" was still a fun game.
I love Shadows character now. That goes merciless, and will take action when needed. Not sure why people dont like it
While Shadow was good character wise in Sonic 2006 and I get where he's the best part of the game's narrative (even though the narrative itself is trash) it still comes at the expense of making him a creator's pet, he's written with all the importance to the where the main antagonist is written to specifically have a connection to him over even Sonic (the main protagonist) and every character who isn't Shadow is either thrown to the wayside or serve little to no purpose at all. (Blaze, Amy and Knuckles fit the latter) The game should've just be written as "Shadow 2006" because he's the central part of the game over Sonic, and that's not how a character should be used.
Sure it's fine to have someone other than Sonic as a main character, but it shouldn't be done in such a way to beef up that character for the sake of wish fullfillment, rather using it as a way to give said characters layers organically. Look at Blaze the Cat in Sonic Rush/Rush Adventure. Those games are about Blaze as a character. The first Rush game is about introducing her character and how she interacts with them, but she's never written where Sonic or other characters are disposable in the process. (Though Knuckles and Amy are flanderized, but it wasn't at cost of beefing up Blaze to the extreme)
Shadow was a nice, fairly layered character in SA2 and Heroes. I'd even go another route and focus more on his own separate missions with Rouge and Omega or just exploring other layers with the character than just marketing his rivalry with Sonic or being used as cheap fanservice. After SA2 and Heroes he lost his interesting layers and just became whatever the plot decided to do with him simply so he can be used for glorified fanservice with his motives/character just changing constantly.
That opinion has always been much more popular than you think.
me too, actually I always defend '06 story, because despite it having flaws (specially the kiss scene) it's still on a very good level for Sonic games, the best part about it is that every character is portrayed right, and Shadow story is by far most enjoyable one
Just blame the new writers. Shiro Maekawa wrote shadow in SA2, he also wrote shdaow's story in 06. He didn't write shadow the hedgehog lol. They really need to bring him back, he really knew how to write these characters personalities. RIP Chill knuckles
Even if they did bring him back, the "translation" team always mess it up, like how Sonic was apparently tortured in Forces in the localized version, while in the original they said he was just put in jail.
@@YujiUedaFan You mean Pontaff? They were the ones responsible for that change since they're the script writers and from the translation they "spice up" the dialogue. That's why Colors' writing was especially atrocious with Bald McNoisehair.
@@blazefa519 Yes.
Son: Can I have Knuckles?
Mom: We have Knuckles at home
Knuckles at home: Stupid Knuckles
I'm gonna subscribe to you just for stating this fact
I'd say Shadow's last really good game was ironically 06. He was in character, his story was compelling (yes I do mean it), and his villain was formidable. And he didn't just randomly decide to be an asshole to Sonic to kick off a fight.
And, he was focused on taking care of the problem.
The only thing I don't really understand is why Shadow was working for G.U.N. in the first place, they ruined his whole life.
Yes, I understand that he would be a hero, but I don't think he would work for G.U.N.
@@DeltaBlazin Mainly for the greater good and his desire to follow Maria last wish. G.U.N could seems cruel bastards in SA2 and Shadow but you need to understand they were facing an 'end of the world' scenario. Between Shadow, Biohazard, the ARK canon and the Black Arms, they simply couldn't take any risk.
And his gameplay wasnt a sonic copy. He was HIS OWN DAMN CHARACTER lol
@@DeltaBlazin I'm pretty sure shadow worked out his differences with the guy in charge of GUN (as well as the president) because they both had connections to Maria. Remember, that guy hated shadow because he blamed him for Maria's death. I wanna say they were cousins or something. So I'd say they settled their differences .
Mephilis is the best thing that came out of 06.
Shadow’s a close second, though.
This is how I see it; the point of the Shadow the Hedgehog game, is everybody across every different faction telling Shadow what he is and what to do - sometimes for the better or sometimes for the worst. And Shadow was following along because he hoped that someone would have answers. But by the end of the story, Shadow realizes that with everyone telling him what he should/needs to be, no one ever asked him what HE wanted.
And that's why Shadow is the way he is; he was built to be Humanity's Savior while also secretly being built to be Humanity's Destroyer. But Shadow is only going to do what HE chooses to do; if that means saving humanity when the time comes - it's fully within his personality - he'll do it. That's the real reason why he puts the past behind him at the end of Shadow the Hedgehog - he's literally putting the expectations for him to be what other people WANT him to be behind, and choosing to walk his own path.
And I think that's why he chooses to work with GUN despite the fact that they killed Maria; he's actively making the choice to work for the security agency that would allow him to investigate and take-out threats when they arrive. But his themes in Sonic 06 are in-keeping with the development he gained in Shadow the Hedgehog, because when Mephiles tries to tempt him to the darkside by warning him of his grim future, Shadow rejects him by claiming that, "He makes his own destiny."
Shadow captains his own ship now, he charts his own course, and he's only ever going to do something if he chooses to; no one can tell him where his story is going to end, because by choosing to defy Mephiles, Shadow could ultimately change the outcome of this future.
And I think that's why Shadow takes a liking toward Omega and Metal Sonic in that Sonic Rivals game. For the one thing, Sonic 06 revealed that Omega was built by Eggman specifically to destroy Shadow if he ever went rogue. Which is why Eggman left him locked up in that room with Shadow's capsule. Shadow admires Omega because he has rejected his programming and his purpose to seek his own wants and desires - which is to get-back at Eggman for abandoning him. He's a machine built to do a purpose that's choosing his own destiny.
That's what I believe he wants for Metal Sonic too - a Machine who was built to defeat Sonic by trying to BE Sonic, who has often overturned his own Master and sought his own wants. Shadow sees potential in Metal to truly be free; but the problem is, Metal Sonic's own agendas prove to be megalomaniacal, because he's still hung-up on being the "Better Sonic."
On that trend, I think that's what Shadow ultimately is rebelling against; the idea that he is Sonic's "Rival". Outside of stupid games like Sonic Boom, I don't think this is true. It's clear that Shadow doesn't really like Sonic, but he ultimately treats him like an obstacle that gets in his way or an annoyance he occasionally has to deal with or team-up with. He doesn't actively try to be better than Sonic in any way, mainly because he knows that by virtue of holding himself back, he IS better than Sonic already.
Every single game Shadow has been in where he and Sonic have had conflict - outside of Boom and general fighting games - feature Shadow having a reason to fight Sonic; in Sonic Heroes, it was because Rouge and Omega didn't want Team Sonic interfering with their attempt to get Eggman. In Shadow the Hedgehog, it was because Shadow has the ability to choose the Dark-Side where Sonic serves as the Final Boss of the story. But in other games like Sonic 06, Shadow usually just "accepts" that Sonic is going to be there and decides to work with him; it's a necessary factor for success.
But at the same time, that's why Shadow isn't Sonic's Friend or his Rival; he ultimately wants nothing to do with him, which is why he doesn't show up just to hang-out with Sonic or his Friends...and that's ultimately the saddest part of Shadow.
You see, even though Shadow has gotten his freedom and chooses his own path, he doesn't really know what to do with himself. From the moment he woke-up in Eggman's lab back in Sonic Heroes, the only thing he has ever known is combat, and unfortunately its the only thing he's actually any good at. Shadow doesn't quite know what to do with his own freedom - what will make him "happy" in a sense - so he sticks to the only thing he knows; fighting. And I think that's another reason why he joined GUN - so he could be involved in the action.
Despite putting the past behind him, Shadow is still plagued by emotional and psychological scars. In cases of extreme isolation and being a social pariah - which Shadow is definitely marked as - it tends to cause Antisocial Personality Disorder; where the person embraces their isolation and usually tends to display disdain and disinterest in other people. Shadow spent more than 50 years imprisoned in a capsule, with the last memory he ever had was a human being shooting Maria - the one person he cared about most - dead. That kind of interaction coupled with the extreme isolation, leaves a permanent mark on Shadow's personality. Even though despite Maria's last wishes, and Shadow's overall desire to do good, he still doesn't like people. Which is why he never actively seeks out Sonic and his Friends to ever "belong"...Because Shadow doesn't want to "belong" with them. The person he's probably closest to in this world is Rouge and she doesn't understand thing-one about him; she's just a well-meaning partner on his missions with GUN. He's better off alone because no one can hurt him then.
In the end, I don't think Shadow's story is necessarily over, because the consequences of his first game are still being felt today. Do I believe the Game Creators know what they're doing with Shadow? No - of course not; they haven't known for a long time, because two of their most experimental games were panned by Critics - the latter much more deserving than the former though. So now, Sega is desperate for a win that they'll pander to what they believe the Fans want and yet it's only ever gotten worse. But Shadow is still a unique and interesting character that I can't say he's actively been "Ruined" by his follow-up games. Because at the end of it all, Shadow still has to come to grips with the fact that he almost destroyed the Earth and embrace knowing that that is not who he really is.
Also, there is a line that explains how Shadow Survived - it's in Shadow the Hedgehog's Final Story during the Devil Doom Fight; if you let the fight go on long-enough to hear voice-clips from the other characters, they tell you that the Poison Gas from the Comet has made its way into their shelter and is now paralyzing them. So Eggman with what could be his final-breaths, tells Shadow that he lied about the Android thing - that Shadow was only ever used as a template for Shadow Androids. That he is the Real Shadow; when he fell to earth, one of his satellite probes managed to catch him during the fall, saving his life; but using his full power took such a mental strain on his mind that he lost his memories.
Bravo!
Best comment in the video right here!
Shit that was alot
Genuinely summed up everything I feel about Shadow and his character better than I could possibly describe to any of my friends. Shadow has always been my favourite character, it's upsetting to see how he's different from how I envision him in my mind, but him just being there makes me happy that Sega stills remembers him, I'm just not happy with how he's treated nowadays in the games. If I had the power to, I'd make Shadow the exact way he used to be, but with a little more interaction with the other characters. Oh, and bring back David Humphrey too, I'd definitely do that as well. I really liked Jason Griffith as Shadow, but David Humphrey just fucking nails it, his voice is so good and is exactly what I hear in my head when I think of Shadow, he's genuinely perfect.
I personally don't think that Shadow doesn't want anything with Sonic or however you described it. While he and Sonic handle things differently to Shadow's annoyance but there is some feelings of respect between them. Remember 06 when Sonic died, Shadow looked away with his eyes shut in grief. I mean Sonic did prevent him from making a mistake in SA2 and helped him to fulfill his promise to Maria
Adventure era Shadow:
A well thought character with personality
Modern era Shadow:
EDGY EDGE LORD
Sonic 06 Shadow is still the best Shadow
heroes and shadow are still in dreamcast era btw
@@lpfan4491 I meant adventure 2 shadow
Vegeta 2.0 pretty much
Forces Shadow isn't too bad, he saves Sonic and doesn't randomly insert him. But he doesn't really do anything in the final battle.
I feel like shadow still has potential to come back as good character again
Xzilla 64 agreed
After the train wreck of forces story i would not hold my breath.
Have to agree.
@Fountainblaze if they have not thought of and done this obvious solution in however many years it's been what are the chances they ever will? None heck
it's not just shadow thats broken it's the whole dam thing
they even promised to not rush and apologised to the fans only to do the exact same thing they apologized for they never will
change
vote with your wallet and find or make something else because insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a diffrent result.
Agrred. But Soundwave will always be awesome.
I just wish they'd stop tying him to Sonic and let him be his own character. That's one of the things that I'm really disliking about Team Sonic Racing. They're pushing their rivalry in every piece of marketing and media, even though Shadow shouldn't be constantly competing with Sonic because he has no reason to and it makes him seem obsessed. I'd like for them to go back to how he was in 06 and make him his own character working for G.U.N with Rouge and Omega. He was badass in 06 and had good writing and emotion.
p_ditty2 Isn't that what he was doing in Episode Shadow?
@@chocov1233 Yeah, but that was just a small part of one game. I'd like to see a lot more of that, add G.U.N back, and make shadow a little less ruthless like what he did to Infinite.
p_ditty2 well technically TSR doesn’t count since it’s a spin-off
@@FengTheSlayer ok but i still want them to characterize the cast well
p_ditty2 ah I see what you mean now
SEGA ruined every characters just to keep Sonic relevant, despite having better powers than him.
Tails became useless after he beat Eggman, Chaos and managed to keep up with a (weakened) Shadow in Battle
Knuckles became a joke as well. Knuckles is the same guy who knocked the fucking super form out of Sonic, his punches were canonically stronger than every final boss
Amy and Cream while not being truly relevant to begin with, could still do something. They defeated the fake Eggman multiple times.
Blaze kinda dissaperead after 2006, she was as strong if not stronger than Sonic in Rush.
Silver used to kick Sonic's butt multiple times
Omega is known to be stronger than Shadow
Where the hell was the true Chaos while everything went bad? If he is the guardian he should help the heroes.
And of course, Shadow himself. It's fine for him to be pragmatic and work with Eggman if he needs to, like in Rivals 2 and Sonic X season 3 but making him a bootled Vegeta/Bass is stupid.
From what i remember after Sonic defeated Perfect Chaos he "cleansed him of evil", and when Chaos became good again, Tikal takes him to heaven, meaning that Chaos was some sort of ghost as well as Tikal. That can explain it, though i might have misunederstood it because he appeared later in Sonic Battle, and he appeared there because world was about to end, as it was in Sonic Forces actually... Well, Tikal have taken Chaos to heaven literally, and they both looked like ghosts, so it could be easily misunderstood X)
But nonetheless can't agree more. My favorite franchise from my childhood and also from the first game i've ever played, which had amazing story, characters and so much potential was shamefully ruined by very dumb and blind guidance, just like my country heh(...
I mean is it THAT HARD to ask fanbase or look around some forums to see opinions like this video which was shown to me in my reccomendation list, or hire people who know what they're doing?
Man, they could've easily just made some story plot that everything since Sonic 06 (including some things like Shadow The Hedgehog kek) was just some sort of time anomaly thus never existing, and thus rebooting the series. Or even made it all just Eggman's dream where he sees nothing but him being loser and Sonic being just a self-centered "cool buddy" douche beating him over and over, and then go on to the next plan with some sort of paranoid seriousness because of that dream, and brought up a very good plan and strategy, and not being easily defeated while acting so dumb like now, something like he was in Sonic Adventure 2, or how Metal Sonic was in Sonic Heroes or even Mephiles.
Hell, if they want money so much, they could just seperate their series then, and make one line with Classic Sonic for his fans with Sonic being young, Freedom Fighters, Robotnik etc etc, other with a deep story and character development (and of course awesome music) like it was from Sonic Adventure 1 until some time in the past, and others like Boom series, or modern style games for kids, just like Sonic Forces. I won't mind even if games would be in development for like 5 or more years each, it's simple - if it's going to be good - it's worth it.
IMHO
P.S. If there are any grammar mistakes, first of all - sorry, english isn't my native language and it's 5 AM for me so i'm very sleepy). If there are mistakes i would like if someone will point them out so i could improve, and if there aren't i would also like to know that as well)
Da Maverick Blast at least Metal Sonic is still awesome.
(Spoilers for those who have not played Sonic Forces or read Sonic IDW issue 9 to 11)
Remember, Eggman (and Metal Sonic) have to use some forces stronger and more powerful and stratagestical for Sonic and his friends to try and stop them.
Sonic Forces, Eggman was able to take over the world, and Metal Sonic became stronger than Sonic and Knuckles in issue 10. Okay, that time, Shadow saved them, but think about Sonic Forces, he was stuck in virtual reality, so he wasn't exactly weaker. It might also explain why he wasn't there for Sonic or saved any other part of the world from Eggman, until after the takeover was complete.
With Silver, not only was he still able to save Sonic, but he used Chaos Control to attack him and while he and Sliver each used an emerald after that kick, it really appears to us that neither is more powerful, at least in 06.
Speaking of Chaos Control, while he managed to stop the fake Shadow from attacking Sonic in Forces, he used Chaos Control (without a Chaos Emerald) to stop time. Sure, it was only for a second, but he stopped more than just one hedgehog without an emerald.That takes a huge amount of energy.
Maybe Shadow doesn't show as physically strong as he did, but he still has literally powerful uses, and the attacks get stronger and smarter for the villains. Meaning Shadow may get more powerful, but we'll hardly notice. And the others need to build up to around his level of skill to keep it up.
Least not forget Sega also ruined Espio who’s an very underrated character that deserves better of being a joke comedy nowadays
They didn’t even add cream to sonic team racing.
Ever since Colors, all the characters have been ruined
Totally agree, but Shadow's character felt like it was regressing ever since Sonic Heroes. There were good points here and there (some moments in Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 06 and Sonic Rivals 2), but he was never the Shadow Sega originally created.
Metal Sonic is still the same as Sonic CD xd
The real Shadow died at, "This is my promise I made to you..."
Everything after is Post Mortem Shadow, which made a new character entirely
@@M0mazosMissy Basically Metal went from a mindless drone to getting developed into his own villain in Heroes only to be regressed back to a mindless drone again.
@@maleficking6556 I preffer that over making him... Shadow 2
It'd be nice if Shadow said to Infinite something like "Power is everything for you... But believe me, power doesn't matter. I'm the ultimate life form but I proved inability to save who were closest to me. And I have made a lot of wrong decisions. You're claiming you're not weak, but truth be told, accepting your weakness is the greatest strength."
...and he leaves Infinite with Pikachu face under his mask.
That's really great. It's better than the Whole Episode Shadow story
Can you write at Sonic Team please
Ok just be a scripter for this game pls
...... so if somebody tried to attack you and go for the kill you'd TALK to him and try to change him? Really?
I think it would be better if Shadow gave him the "You should quit while you can" talk.
Shadow "If they're jackals, we put them in shackles" the Hedgehog
Shadow "If he's with the Eggs, we break his legs" the Hedgehog
Shadow "If he shows his face, we bludgeon him with a mace" the Hedgehog
I remembered something. Shadow also was like his old self in Sonic Battle.
Well spotted. You are one of the few people making this distinction of Shadow's character. I think Sonic Battle is one of the few, maybe the only organic, real representation of Shadow in the aftermath of his death that we'll ever see post-SA2. He wasn't distrustful or a douche or anything. He was actually very collected. But now they've flipped it away and made Shadow the misguided shell of what they imagined fans wanted or liked about him
i love sonic battle!
Miles Quickster Shadow in Sonic 06 was his old self as well.
@@theultimatefan999 I have to see, I agree on this. Probably why I like Shadow's story so much in the '06 Sonic game. Shadow is collected, and not violent in this game at all.
Sonic Battle was so underrated. In fact all the GBA titles were. (Except maybe SA1)
Step 1 to fixing Shadow: Smooth the freaking edge a bit!
His edge is why he's entertaining.
Ikr people that like him are getting bored by that same behavior and people that hate will keep bitching more about him.
He lost his more emo edge and turned to merciless angst.
Since Shadow put the past behind him he's lost his baggage, and now so few of his actions carry any of the same weight.
The problem is that he no longer has a reason to act the way he does, it made sense back then, because we could see he was going through some pretty heavy shit
Not all edge some of it is needed
Even though I love Shadow I couldn’t agree more. I wish SEGA/SonicTeam would fix his character. Same goes for Sonic, Knuckles and Tails too.
I think they may need another soft reboot of the franchise and they actually get a good cohesive story with good well written characters with depth
Ya boy guzma I agree. Also, cool name and profile pic, dude😎.
@@yaboiguzma4103 they should just retcon all 2010 games
Sonic Tails and Knuckles are easily more forgiven by fans as characters at their worst than Shadow is. Their still more popular than Shadow to fans wanting them in more games than Shadow.
All characters were ruined,this is nothing new
They a way to defeat shadow, shadow the hedgehog has a weakness.
Old shadow: literally the coolest
New shadow: what the-?
Old Shadow: the coolest
New Shadow: "the coolest"
Old Metal Sonic: The metal faker
New Metal Sonic: *Is still the same and i'm fine with that*
If Shadow is literally the coolest, what's his temperature?
@@ThisGamingDragon he wouldn't his just our shadow when we go outside
@@ThisGamingDragon xd
Seriously... they should get rid of the writers who wrote Happy Tree Friends and get Ian Flynn to write the dialogue/story next time.
Ohhhhh Fuck no. Flynn is a useless hack. He writes characters all the same as sarcastic token douchebags, and all he does is shoving useless references.
@@TheDen-ec9xe better than the shit Pontac and Graff write
@@hwanniggles187 Hardly. The Championship Arc of post reboot Archie was just as bad, not to mention the Boom episodes he wrote for.
@@TheDen-ec9xe I don't know, he did good keeping Knuckles from becoming what he is now. He actually had his cool personality from the Adventure games and Eggman was actually threatening in the comics vs today's Sonic games.
@@segastars9802 I beg to differ, he pretty much wrote Knuckles into his always angry Sonic X persona, and Eggman as of recently was almost as pathetic as he is in the games. Keeping Orbot and Cubot certaintly detracted from him.
I say from his debut in Sonic Adventure 2 up to Sonic 06, Shadow was a well-developed character. His portrayal in 06 was especially good since it ends off Shadow's whole character arc very nicely. He's made peace with G.U.N., along with the commander, after his self-titled game and further decided to put the past behind him and move on with his life. When Mephiles tries to manipulate Shadow, he utterly fails because Shadow has a solid sense of his identity now unlike back in Heroes when he suffered from amnesia. Honestly, part of me doesn't blame Sonic Team for not knowing what to do with Shadow after 06 since his character was very much complete after that game.
At the same time though, I chalk that up to Sonic Team's incompetence and choosing the most terrible writers to ever write for the series. Pontac and Graff ruined his character, along with everyone else. His portrayal in Boom though is something I'll always hate since they made him just some random jerkass who acts like a bad guy simply because he's "the bad guy". He's essentially a victim of flanderization and is just a shell of his former self. Shadow's now just viewed as "edgy", which is a term I hate quite a lot and find to be an overused buzz-word. His portrayal in Forces was adequate, I suppose, but after "Episode Shadow", he doesn't do much of anything other than save Sonic from the Phantom Ruby's illusion of Shadow. He just becomes another part of Sonic's sidemen while Sonic, Classic Sonic and the custom character do all of the work. In the end, I believe Sonic Team needs to hire competent writers in the future who actually have knowledge of the series and how the characters were back then. That's the major problem with Pontac and Graff after all since they were hired. They knew jack shit about the Sonic series and its characters when they were first hired to write for the Sonic series. It's utterly terrible.
Really, when you hire the guys known more for Happy Tree Friends before working on Sonic, do you really expect good character writing? I half expect them to reveal that they’ve wanted to depict Sonic and his friends get cartoonishly and brutally eviscerated since they were hired.
@@Mariodash23 Wait, the Sonic Forces writers are the Happy Tree Friends writers!?!
@@ShoulderMonster Since Sonic Colors
czcams.com/video/h4tz8xPC4Pg/video.html
In the comics he's actually a good written character thanks to Ian Flynn
Shiro Maekawa who did the stories for Adventure 2 & 06 also did Shadow better.
@@HyperSonicXtreme Omg... this explains so much...
They actually did explain his death. In Shadow the Hedgehog, if you stay on the final boss for long enough Eggman will say he sent one of his robots to catch him.
Was looking for a comment that said this. This should be one of the top comments tbh.
Knowing that, I don't think there's any problem with Shadow still being a main character...if they'd just get his characterization right, retconning basically any portrayal of him after '06.
@@TheQuietestStorm exactly
At least Archie Sonic gave Shadow's character justice
exactly Archie Shadow is very kind and heroic
The Archie comics did Shadow well even before Ian Flynn took over. In fact, I'd argue that Flynn did Shadow dirty in the "Mobius: 25 Years Later" storyline, where Shadow is a tyrant king.
Some have even drawn parallels between that storyline and Flynn's fanfiction "Other M."
@@sonicstar917 Shadow being a tyrannical king? That doesn't make any sense, it completely throws all his character development out of the window.
Archie Shadow was barely a major role even in own arc, and Ian loved humiliating and mocking character through characters like Metal Sonic, Rouge and Knuckles. He was like Vegeta, a character who thought he was cool and the strongest then loses the big fight to hype some other threat.
So who do you think was downgraded worse? Shadow or Tails.
I'd probably say Shadow. Tails still has some poor character regression, though, and I may do a video about that at some point.
Technically tails has been "downgraded" for a long time...after the classic games, you would always see him with a mech to help with his work
But i don't know if that is really a downgrade
@@blitz4506 Honestly, it's more so around the Modern Era (post 06) where Tails began to lose interesting character. Sonic Adventure showed him trying to improve and become more like and less reliant on Sonic. Sonic Adventure 2 made him all about business. In Heroes and 06, he's out on the field with Sonic. But in Unleashed, he doesn't serve much purpose outside of the Tornado. Colors didn't do too bad of a job, but serves no purpose in gameplay and little purpose in plot. Generations wasn't intended to do anything with him. Lost World made him some kind of obnoxious Super Genius, and was a bit more annoying (also missed opportunity to make him playable with the more Adventure style gameplay). And then Forces...well, we all know what happened to him in THAT game.
Personally tails. He doesnt even have the courage to fight without sonic being in eye sight now.
@@blindedjourneyman Sonic help me!
Whatever happened to some great characters developments.
I wasnt a fan of Sa2's gameplay but the plot is one of the best in the series.
God, who cares about character development
@@AndrewUchiha4747 Anybody who clicked on this video.
sswag bio Sega only cares about money.
@@INFERNO95 I wish they start caring about their characters more than just money.
I feel like SEGA needs to look back at what made these characters special. That way fans will still be able to love these characters. I mean if there gonna decide to make Shadow playable again at least show the fans that he’s cared for and isn’t lackluster like Classic Sonic was in Forces.
This is also the reason why I miss the old Archie canon. Characters were allowed to grow and change, despite the rough writing, I'd rather have that continue than the games go on like they are.
The IDW comics aren't doing it for me because it feels more like Sonic's on a road trip and each issue he meets up with someone else, leaves and repeat.
In conclusion
They need to new writers
I do still like Shadow, but not as much as I used to. The only logical reason I could see for Shadow being a lone-wolf/violent character is because, like you said, didn't want to get attached because he would lose them, as he is immortal. I feel that 06 is ironically his best representation. He needs to have bigger roles in future games just so we could at least get a spark of what he used to be.
Ok for not being attached but why killing ?
Wrong
I see A LOT of people make this argument and I disagree. It’s like saying Vegetas character sucks since he became a nice guy, but is still dark and brooding. And it kinda made sense for Shadows character to change a little bit since in two of the games he had no idea who he even was LMAO. On top of that, in the Shadow video game (underrated game btw), the only time he doesn’t seem like this is in the flashbacks before Maria was shot and killed. In that time he always seemed like an innocent person who was always willing to help. I don’t think a person could ever return from something like that. And in Sonic 06 you can tell his character went back to normal because of how he acted and denied Mephiles. I think the main problem is that they haven’t done anything interesting with him since the Adventure era. Just like the rest of the characters. Ever since Sonic stopped taking itself more seriously with its tone, Shadow is literally just a stereotype parody of his style of character. This isn’t just a Shadow problem either. Just look at Tails and Knuckles.
Mr Poofey You are kind of right. The problem you mentioned here is about 30% the reason Shadow is a ruined character. What the video listed is the other 70% of why Shadow is ruined. You are completely right about tails and knuckles though
The thing with Vegeta is Toriyama never made him go backwards or gave him traits that completely contradicted him before or after development. They made Shadow almost a completely different character, a dark edgy douchebag who is apathetic and violent, whereas in SA2 he was only violent when he was forced to be and he was selfish only because he was misguided and wasn't inherently apathetic (he just made himself that way and realized at the end it wasn't the true him) oh and he showed actual respect for people.
Clearly someone hasn’t played sonic boom: rise of lyric before
The problem with Shadow these days is the same as the problem with every other character in the series, & he's closer to how he should be than most characters. Forces at least gets his "doing what needs to be done" attitude down making him feel like the agent he was in 06. The downfall of the Sonic Series started in 2010 when new writers who had no knowledge of the series at all were hired & they've been screwing up the series for the past decade. Combine that with a few really unfitting VAs in English like Roger Craig Smith & we have the worst decade of Sonic's Career. The series was reduced to a joke & Sega doesn't care.
2010 isn’t really much of a downfall. In writing it would be but it’s more opposite for gameplay
Characters I like that Sega ruined
Tails: Turned into a whiny coward whose relies on Sonic all the time
Shadow: Turned into an unlikable egdelord
Knuckles: Turned into a Sonic groupee boot licker
true dat
We just need good writers again. Not sure if that'll change anytime soon, though.
Sega needs to hire Ian Flynn. But they might force him to write in a stupid degrading way cuz I heard they forced him to write Shadow as a foolhardy egomaniac in IDW
I loved Shadow in 06. "If the world chooses to become my enemy, I will fight like I always have."
same
I like shadow in sonic X especially the last season of the show. He felt like his own character in that show
Molly and Shadow interacting was very sweet to me.
Diana Prince so true
@@CandyApples4ever true plus Shadow was op as hell and I loved him
since 2006 shadow has become the emo of the situation have not deepened more its history, its character evolutions, its relationship with rouge and omega, from 2006 shadow appears every now and then in games just for the sake of putting it, but not there is a true evolution of the character.
I feel Tails and Sonic got the worst of the character regression. I mean, where's the Sonic from black knight? I want him back. Meanwhile, Tails literally acted like a completely different character in lost world and forces.
Also, as a side thing. Is it just me, or does the avatar fit in very well with the main cast? The avatar seemed to fill in a hole that I didn't know needed filling. Nah, it's probably just me.
You mean a place to put the gameplay gimmicks, a backstory, and motivation? Yea I loved playing the avatar more than the sonic stages.
But yea, I miss the storybook games (they need to be remade using normal controls and debugged) and Black Knight had the best representation of Sonic's personality, along with providing a good way of incorporating the extra characters.
@@amandaslough125 Me too. I love the Avatar stages. I would've rathered the game had been all about him/her. Also, yeah the Avatar was better written than infinite. (To me at least.)
I was actually playing secret rings last night. (I wanted a second opinion on it as I gave shadow another chance and I actually liked it afterward.) It's the only sonic game I actually hate, but it's mostly due to the controls more than anything else. (Homing attack is unresponsive and it gets me killed.) The story for that game and black knight's is miles better than anything we've gotten from the games' plots for a while. Sonic acts.... well... like Sonic and not some comedian. Knuckles being Sinbad was an interesting but strange thing to see and seeing Lancelot as Shadow made so much since. :P
Overall, I agree that these two games need to be remade... but with better controls. The controls is really their only flaw that I can think of. (Well, the only flaw that needs absolute attention.)
Another example of what Sonic 06 did right. It’s becoming more and more clear to me that Sonic 06 has things worth keeping.
06 pretty much deserves a total overhaul in story and gameplay to be good. its just the unfortunate product of the writers screwing up,no one testreading it and them rushing an really early build out(yeah,this shit is beta at best with the cut features being the biggest example) without even bugtesting it
Its like Sega embraced the "edgy" and "emo" memes and transfered all of them to Shadow.
I grew up with Sonic 06 and I've always seen him as a hero as a result. Then I played Shadow The Hedgehog (ps2) and seeing him as a possible anti-hero. I just think "different universes, different character versions" (like 30 years later Shadow. Different universe and we don't acknowledge his evidence. No.)
There's always fanon which is usually better than canon
Best fanon: The one where every Sonic character doesn't reset their character traits every game.
Wrong
...For all its faults, the "Shadow the Hedgehog" game openly states in its final ending how Shadow is alive. Eggman found and recovered Shadow's broken body after Shadow fell to Earth. Shadow was gravely wounded, but not dead. The tank he is found in in 'Sonic Heroes' is essentially a Star Wars bacta tank, where he was recovering.
You know i also wish shadow talked about his past more often...like what it was like on the ark or something
Shadow is the positive change arc. People love this type of character arc because it’s amazing to see the transition. Every positive change arc ends with the character doing something completely selfless. Every one!! But after this sacrifice, the character tops out. The only way these characters maintain relevance is to retcon their character in some way. Shadow was given amnesia and then his character change to a compassionate being who cares about others...was never addressed again. This is why he is so confusing and becoming less and less interesting to the fans. He’s reached his climax already whereas Sonic is a flat character who thrives by having newer characters to play off of.
Shadow can develop further. He just needs the right writers. Look at Archie Shadow he develops FURTHER
I think they once said that one of egmans robots saved him from falling
They did, in Shadow the Hedgehog.
They did, although you have to wait in the final boss for 8 minutes to hear it which is stupid.
LOOK AT ALL THOSE EGGMANS ROBOTS
Yes.after sa2 shadow fell onto Sonics home planet and was found by one of eggman's robot outside his base.that explains why he was in a capsule in heroes. In the comics sonic found him
Is there a single character that they haven’t ruined?
I think Metal Sonic's remained okay. Not as cool as he was in Heroes, but still not ruined.
Silver's also a decent character, like a more mature version of his 06 self.
I think there are a few who aren't too badly ruined, but unfortunately these characters aren't as relevant as the main cast (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow etc.) - and the main cast has definitely been ruined.
@@lorddanny2988 Blaze didn't get ruined she's still in character
@@donathan2933 Clearly you haven't seen her in Team Sonic Racing (where she acts like a prissy, self entitled "princess" that feels like she’s too important to indulge in any sort of games). Silver's pretty badly mischaracterized in that game too, as he not only lost all of his snark, attitude, resolve, and confidence, but he was also so stuck in his own head that he could barely hold a conversation (I genuinely got second hand _embarrassment_ watching those interactions 🤦🏾)
@@DLxxx that's all you. I've heard mainly positive things about all the characters portrayal in Team Sonic Racing even Shadow himself. The only characters I've heard complaints about were Sonic for being an overcompetitive idiot and Amy for being a bland Mary Sue. Blaze and Silver were perfectly fine in those games. A lot of ppl liked Silver's character
I LOVED this video!! More people need to see this or just understand what happened with Shadow's characterization... However I do have something to say, a tiny correction: at the end of Shadow the Hedgehog, while fighting the final boss, Eggman explains he finds and rescues Shadow with one of his robots, as the big reveal of him actually being the real Shadow. Tbh, I'm a bit conflicted, I love Shadow in 06 so much and it feels like the perfectly logical progression from SA2 and ShadowTH, but then after that... They sort of ruined him... I didn't know about Rivals but it sounds like he was well handled then which is neat! I keep saying that his best appearance after SA2 is got to be 06 just because the character really shows how much he's grown and he's far from Sonic's evil copy like he is in games like Generations. Hell, he doesn't even FIGHT Sonic, he outright teams up with him and protects him from Silver for the greater good!! However it is true that him coming back makes his whole death thing a bit more meaningless, therefore me being conflicted... But with how 06 handled him (and with how much i love the character) I'm honestly glad he came back! I wish Sega worked better with him... I thought the IDW comics would finally give him the personality he deserves but nope, angsty edgelord it is... I guess, in an ironic twist, all we have about Shadow as a good character are memories from the past, the same one he himself put behind him...
Sega and Sonic team has done for the whole cast of Sonic. Every character is a shallow one personality from who they used to be. It's really sad to see all these great characters kinda slowly fall off to the side.
This is why I prefer the comics, Shadow is much more his own person and solidified.
I agree I especially love Archie Shadow
*[laughs in IDW]*
Shadow was a joke in archie comics and constantly jobber and acted boring when being around other eccentric characters like Sally.
If I remember correctly in shadow the hedgehog eggman said he found shadow or something like that in the final boss(i cant remember all of it since i played shadow the hedgehog in a awhile cause my disc got scratched up)
You are right; Shadow was found by one of Eggman’s robots, after his sacrifice in SA2.
tru, I remember that. Though it doesn't really explained how he survived falling to the earth tho? or why eggman just on left him on his own after that... or whether he knew shadow lost his memory after getting fixed...
@@Enerjjak
I think its safe to assume that shadow was still super form when he entered the Earth and managed to survive the impact.
And then in Heroes Eggman attempted to recreate the ultimate life form but only managed to make cheap knockoffs.
@@santoscarrillo6256 ah yeah tru I forgot about that. I guess that's a reasonable enough explanation.
(though technically he should still be invincible but imma forget about that)
@@Enerjjak
Actually in the ending of SA2 during The Final Hazard its mentioned that shadow had a tough time staying in super form since it was his first time ever using it. And shadow even stated "Sonic! I think I've discovered what the ultimate lifeform is... It might be you!"
As much I like Shadow, he's very overrated and used for the wrong reasons. I honestly feel that his arc in Sonic 06 is his best after the events of SA2. Even though he's seen as a threat, he's going to try and stand by for humanity during their darkest times even if it's going against the government when they turn against Shadow in the future. In recent years, especially in the Boom universe, Shadow's nothing more but an asshole and a edgy fighter that thinks friendship is pathetic and weak. That's why he's not on my top 10 favorite Sonic Characters list for that very reason. So I'm gonna rewrite Shadow in a way while keeping true to his original character form SA2.
If I were to rewrite Shadow in a way to make him a good character again, say his "death" is nothing but a survival crash landing on Earth (which I assume from how Shadow disappeared) and was found by Eggman (not having the Amnesia cliche as it's been done to death) to be brought to his facility to be healed after using up most of his Chaos energy but also the damages he got during his crash landing. When Rouge awakens Shadow in Heroes and have a mix up encounter with Omega by being a android, this causes the 3 to join together to find Eggman which is really Metal Sonic. This gets the trio to question if that's really Eggman from how Metal Sonic would react as Eggman telling them lies and deceive them to question the real Eggman later on after Metal Sonic was taken down.
Ignoring the events of Shadow the Hedgehog (which I don't consider canon, not sure if you agree or not), after defeating Metal Sonic and getting answers from Eggman from Sonic Heroes, GUN offers Shadow and Omega jobs as secret agents alongside Rouge, they agree and become one of the best set of agents GUN has ever have. This is where Sonic 06's arc of Shadow comes into play, in my take he's a laid back secret agent who, despite moving on from his past, takes his job seriously now that he's a GUN agent. This doesn't stop him from having some personality and curiosity about what's going on during the game, despite Shadow in my take doesn't want to admit his true feelings which he thinks it'll make him emotionally weak. It's shown evident when Sonic was dead and Omega's confession. Even though he doesn't cry unlike in SA2, deep down he truly cares for his friends and the world he promise Maria he protects when feeling sorrow.
In Sonic Forces, he remains the same from Sonic 06 but now has a bit of a grudge against Eggman since he's going against what Maria wished for. When hunting down his outpost and coming across Zero or Infinite, he takes him down with ease and tells him; "I'm sorry for taking out your comrades. You don't know what you're getting yourself into in Eggman's game. Take my word for it, as I once blindly worked with Eggman before. I now know the difference from right and wrong." This gives a hidden little hint to the lyrics from All Hail Shadow (which I consider Shadow's main theme); "Somewhere in chaos, we all find ourselves. This destruction is the only tale we tell. White is black, black is white. Right is wrong and wrong is right. Nothing ever fills this hole inside your heart".
Despite feeling remorse and sympathy for the enemy, that doesn't stop Shadow from doing what he believes is right. Even if it means sacrificing your enemies, seeing how most of the enemies Shadow faced just died like Black Doom, the Bio Lizard, Solaris, and even Infinite's former squad. Before Shadow could do anything to Zero, reinforcements arrive and Shadow disappear as they retrieved Zero for Eggman to become a weapon of the Phantom Ruby. When the time came to Shadow and Infinite's reuniting, Shadow actually remember him and doesn't act stupid and doesn't know who Infinite is, or was. Infinite sends Shadow into (what I can assume is) Null Space, and Infinite creates places that Shadow visited and illusions of Rouge and Omega, but also Sonic and friends as well from one of the fan made mods of Null Space, this one made by Knuxfan24.
Link: czcams.com/video/l2dxd2X9a1k/video.html
Anyway, Infinite tries playing mind games with Shadow to see if he can not only lower his fighting chances, but also break his spirit and morality (like how Slade did to Robin in the original Teen Titans show in season 1 episode masks, but differently). Unable to stop Shadow, Infinite admire's Shadow's strong will to keep fighting. When Shadow gets back, Rogue alerts him about Sonic going missing and causes Shadow to go on his own private mission. Finding Infinite, and learn what he knows about Sonic. The idea of Shadow being missing and the Phantom Ruby clone being the real deal is a cool idea, as it gives the characters a feeling why Shadow was against them since they're friends with him and question why he would work for Eggman again. It wouldn't be without any reason, could it. Maybe they think Eggman somehow manage to make a clone of Maria for Shadow and got him to join his cause, to have another chance with her, despite not being real and there. When the real Shadow returns to his friends and they tell him what they know, this gets Shadow to draw the line against Eggman as he tried to mess with his friends emotionally by having a phantom ruby clone of him and Maria.
Can't stand his character in Sonic boom. He's more gullible than even Knuckles and he's just there to be edgy and evil for no reason. He's just there for fan service
@Pizza Parker I remember when things were different, when the Sonic Series didn't focus on "Just Sonic", back when the stories were great. Hopefully we get a return to form in the 2020s, because the 2010s were easily the series worst decade. Boom Shadow is nothing like the Real Shadow.
@@Burnout-db7ji Tell me about it. He's pretty much like a bad version of the Wolverine at this point in time.
@Pizza Parker like from that one episode where Shadow "joins" Eggman's "villain social group"? Cause I remember that one particularly.
I think the problem with the Shadow fans of wanting more Shadow is that the fanboys don't know what they truly want with him. I don't have a problem with Shadow coming back, but if he's going to be involve with something alongside Sonic, then give us some explanation and good writing. Sonic 06 and a little bit of Sonic Forces does it for me, since he's not being all that jerky because he's a badass, he's doing what he believes what is right to Maria's wish by protecting the people of Earth. Heroes they kind of explain why he's back, but not on how he managed to survive, and Shadow the Hedgehog game makes things incredibly messy.
@@WaterKirby1994 I agree with you 100%.
*Reads Title*
Yeah. This is pretty much a given. Honestly numerous characters have been ruined since their debut.
At this point, every single character in the series has been butchered.
They were all ruined in 2010 though thanks to Pontac & Graff the 2 writers who never should have been hired because they know nothing of the series.
@@AleTitan i think the problem is that they have too many characters but they dont have something meaningful for these characters to do, I would just not bring them back honestly
@@AleTitan Not the dead ones, like Gamma. Plus some characters were just ignored before the butchering began like Gemerl.
Jonatan Perez Which is why it would make sense to make spinoff games for these characters like they planned for some of them during Shadow the Hedgehog games development. But either due to time, budget, or critical backlash, they didn’t do that and when 06 shat the carpet (minus the story which is pretty solid) they became scared of ever having other characters be playable.
To be fair the entire sonic franchise has been ruined for years.
Which is sad...
The franchise needs help.
The new help, where staff care not just to make a quick buck.
in my opinion it's been ruined since 2010 story telling wise. It got ruined 2014 gameplay wise. 06 wasn't the best but it wasn't enough to kill the franchise in my opinion plus it ain't canon. Ppl just use 06 to further downplay the franchise which is honestly annoying. 06 did some things right and Shadow's character was one of em
@@donathan2933 honestly in my opinion, the last good writen story game was either unleashed or black knight while last good gameplay was generations, after that the franchise just went downhill
I think the writers of the sonic games have just done Shadow a major injustice, like you said, they’ve ruined his character. Love your analysis and totally agree with you. Except for your point about Shadow overstaying his welcome, he’s a really good character - or was - he deserves to stay in the franchise. It’s just because his character is being mishandled so badly, but he still has a place.
Shadow’s story is definitely the best part of 06 and you’re right his character is actually really good in that game. He was great when he was a little edgy and morally grey but had a heart and actually wanted to protect the world. Like you said even his portrayal in his own game wasn’t great, though I guess it can sort of be explained away that he was messed up by his amnesia and didn’t know what to do, and the way I see it, he seems a little lost without purpose.
I still love Shadow he will always be my favourite, but we need more of the old Shadow back. I liked how he was in SA2, villain who was redeemed, and how he was in Sonic 06, practical and serious but he cared, he even cared about Sonic dying in 06. We need him back!
Look how they massacred my boy.
I honestly don’t feel like Shadow has too many issues, in Sonic 06 he both was working for G.U.N and he played similar to Sonic but with several big differences. Also Shadow surviving the fall at the end of SA2 is actually explained, if you make the Devil Doom Final Boss Fight last 8 minutes Eggman will reveal that he had one of his robots save Shadow, but he lost his memory.
Shadow was so overly edgy in Shadow The Hedgehog and bad. I love him in 06 and SA2 and he is a cool character and I wish Shadow would be 06 Shadow
Shadow in Shadow the Hedgehog isn't really edgy he's just marketed to be one due to the guns and try hard dark nature of his game. He's more of a confused tsundere than anything else. In the real ending he saves the world and I like that. The other stories were what if scenarios
I remember in middle school that teenagers actually liked Shadow. Now little kids love him.
That should tell you something right there...🤨
yeah kids are constantly said to be ruining many popular, long running content and media, that says something
IMHO, the very problem is not that Shadow became Sonic's rival, it's that Shadow BECAME Sonic. The whole coolness with a bit of a snarky attitude was Sonic's trademark and it got transferred to Shadow to turn Sonic into the safe main character. In consequence, all the intrigue from post-SA2 to 06 got transferred to Shadow while Sonic is just running in circles in those games, even in Battle, Shadow is the one with all the lore (and strangely isn't amnesic anymore, stupid plot device anyway). In consequence, the stories feel totally disjointed. Then the Pontaff era happened and he became the very thing non-fans see him as: a Vegeta at best, a nu-metal dark Sonic at worst.
The problem is not that Shadow shouldn't have come back, I feel it was for the best as I see the Rouge-Shadow-Omega trio as one of the best thing of the Sonic franchise. The problem is that the storytelling post-SA2 was first disjointed then lost all flavour, being wacky jokes around flanderized characters. What is needed is daring stories and from how Forces was butchered and the overmarketing of mute Sonic, I'm not even sure Sega allows it to happen.
Sonic Battle happened after Shadow the Hedgehog, hence no amnesia. I know Sonic Battle was released earlier, but it's the same thing with CD happening before Sonic 2.
If Sonic Team, are gonna keep Shadow within the Sonic Lore, maybe lift off the mandates they have for him, as well as for the other characters too, so they can able to grow as characters and move on instead of being one note characters.
Honestly, I feel like the Achieve comic books did his character justice to bad most people don't read them.
Most people just made fun of them then the Kenders thing happened, reboot 1 happened and now we're onto IDW Sonic. Not a fan of IDW Sonic because all of the characters I liked from the original and reboot Archie universes are gone and I don't want to waste my time on something that will get another reboot.
@@YujiUedaFan true
Once again, you are absolutely correct!
I have to live with the fact that my two favorite characters are the ones they can never get right. Shadow became an edgelord and Knuckles became an idiot.
At least they haven’t ruined Eggman yet.
To be fair, Eggman became more of a joke in the 2000s to make way for other villains (Rush duology notwithstanding), and it is hard to take a villain with a name like "Eggman" seriously.
Robotnik is the name the American side of SEGA came up, and his SatAM incarnation is the more definitive version (AoStH version was a bumbling idiot 90% of the time).
Shadow: a misunderstood messiah.
to bad silver and knuckles had the same problem
and if you think that bad look at tails
SA1 & 2 had well-thought stories imo (anybody can nitpick plotholes, & sure 06 was ambitious too but failed in more aspects than it had got right.)
Modern Sonic games have seemed more simple than them, and the mainstay crew seems to have been Flanderized along the way. Tails: Dude, Believe in Yourself, you can be like Sonic if you try. Don't cry for help every 20 minutes. Knuckles: Once stoic guardian but now musclehead dummy. Silver: I have no freaking clue what they want to do with him; he's probably the Demyx of the Sonic franchise.
@@runningoncylinders3829 the first time i see silver in sonic 6 i thought he was cool mysterious character i liked him more than shadow and now he become ( it is no use )
really he had not even one game since sonic 6 which had a great story to be honest
The only character that improved personality wise is Amy. She seemed to improve somewhat personality-wise.
@@zacharygadzinski3147 She surprisingly has a decent Boom variation. I wasn't too keen on her between Heroes and Boom. Early Amy is fine too; she's Sonic's adoring fangirl, and I think that's neat.
@@zacharygadzinski3147 the only positive thing
I think he got kinda stale because his character arc is over.
He had his arc on the first game, Sonic Heroes introducted his amnesia, Shadow the Hedgehog in it's entirely was about Shadow learning his past and acepting it and his story in 06 felt like an epilogue with themes of uncertainty about Shadow's future.
Really nice way of putting it! 06 truly did feel like the ending of his arc. Still, I feel he has more potential overall. Like he was pretty great in the Sonic Rivals series, though maybe not as good as previous games. Definitely better than later games.
SA2/06 and Heroes/STH really feels Like Two Different Story lines for Him
@@DLxxx exactly Shadow still has potential. Archie Shadow shows this
I think during the final battle in Shadow the Hedgehog, Eggman says that he was the one that saved Shadow.
Shadow actually does have friends: rouge the bat and e-123 omega. And his allies were those who had helped him in the final battle of sa2.
Soledad Venegas Yea, but Rouge and Omega are the closest thing he has as "friends".
@@godofwar234regi5 Why put the quotation marks? Rouge and Omega ARE Shadow's friends, lol. Ignoring how he treats them his current mischaracterization.
Shadow's story is the only really worth story in 06, specially since Sonic's felt so irrelevant for the main plot.
I agree
In Shadow's self titled game if you don't finnish the final boss within 8 minutes in a attempt to give Shadow enough confidence to finnish the fight, Eggman will explane to shadow that he sent a unnamed robot into space to save shadow and thats how Eggman has Shadow in Sonic Heros. Wether or not he's lieing to make shadow confadant or not is up for debate, but still. This comment wasn't supposed to bring anything to the conversashon, i just think its a neat fact.
Yep
Fuck knows why they made the dialouge appear until 8 minutes has passed.
Well Johnny in his review of shadow the hedgehog he said " oh and uh shadow is not actually a robot if you spent 9 minutes on the final fight with devil doom egg man well contact you and tell you your exact same person from Adventure two.
I was just about to comment this! I really hate how something that is so integral to Shadow's character arc is so easy to miss considering how easy the final boss is.
@Pizza Parker lol they already explained this shadow is the same shadow from adventure 2
They didn't ruin anything. Shadows story was told. His issues regarding his past and his identity were resolved. He'll never be a main character again or move beyond a supporting role, so, thus, there is no development left for him. He's a finished character whose story has been told.
No, more likely that Iizuka still thinks that solo Sonic games are the ones everyone wants and whenever people complain, he just adds Classic Sonic back.
Shadow can develop further he's just been held back by bad writing
I can't tell you how much I 100% agree with out. kind of funny since I was saying the same exact thing to a friend yesterday, which ironically, this video was uploaded on.
All characters have been ruined...
True.
true
oh my god preach! Also, i know BOOM isn't canon, but i think that's where they REALLY ruined him. In the series AND the games. He was so... EVIL!!! Which sucks because i really like Shadow.
same
Shadow and Eclipse the Darkling is an interesting dynamic that shows Shadow's character development.
Archie comics actually does the characters justice
No, it doesn't.
@@sonicsucks20 yes it does, read them Shadow is great there
@@donathan2933 shadows a glorified filler character, a joke in the eyes of characters like sonic, knuckles and Rouge and total jobber that would make vegeta shake his head.
I feel like Shadow changes WAY too much when the voice actors change. Humphrey was my favorite, Griffith I liked just fine, but when Thornton took over and the writing changed Shadow suddenly became a character I dont care about. It's a shame that the writers dont know how to handle him.
Yes, this exactly. Sonic at least stayed consistent up until Roger Craig Smith started acting in the role.
@@DLxxx true Sonic post 2010 is now a pure snarky, annoying pure egotistical mean spirited foolhardy obnoxious jokester who acts like a loudmouthed douchebag and lazily stands around trash talking everyone even his friends. Sonic used to have edge, good edge with his own charisma and charm, but he knew when to be serious
I don't think he is ruined but in his days he is empty it just feels like Sega has nothing for him
Sonic 06 has been released on the Japanese PS Now, could they be testing the waters for something?
I hope so!
Ruined? Shadow was almost the only good thing about Forces.
Sonic himself is doing worse than Shadow right now.
Agreed completely Shadow was done decently in Forces, while Sonic was just an obnoxious character. These Days Sonic is more of an Egomaniac than Eggman (the guy who built so much stuff after himself) what happened to him being a cool hero?
pretty much yes. doesnt change the fact that shadow is pretty useless in the game tho
Well he was going against an army of himself. Its hard to fight with fire against raging hell flames.
Being The Best character in that Shitstorm Doesn't mean he's a Good Character
Damn this is pretty good. Keep up the good work.
Damn u just opened my mind up to shadow the hedgehog I’ve always thought he has the darker cooler version of sonic that clearly isn’t the case anymore
To be honest, almost all mainstream characters have been brushed aside since Forces except for Sonic himself. The day characters like Tails and Knuckles become main aspects of a game in both plot and gameplay, in a 3D Modern Sonic game will be the day when things once again start to look up, just how Sonic Mania gave many fans hope.
Shadow is still the greatest Sonic character. Hes absolute greatness.
I agree, why'd Sega ruin him
Shadow: Where's that damn FOURTH chaos emerald!
*Maria's spirit: Look at how Sega massacred my friend*
Shadow: Sega made him hostile in boom. Shadow he's cool also he's no villian just a anti-hero. He's just created as the ultimate lifeform a tough and trained character in Sonic franchise
SA2 Shadow: Interesting character, anti hero & confused.
Post Sonic Heroes Shadow: I'm emo and emotionless.
Sega: *makes a good character*
Sega: It's a shame... *grabs a gun*
Honestly after 06 it was downhill for shadow from the voice change to the character development they really shit the bed with him it sucks because he's one of my favorite characters in all of video games sad
He was already ruined when he wasn’t added to Smash Ultimate /s
oh my god get over it
you're here for THAT, aren't you? r/wooooosh
@@RetroDubs yeah, miss me with that using "woosh" as your safety net when a terrible joke doesnt land
you're here for THAT, aren't you? DOUBLE R/WOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
@@RetroDubs oh, got me
I wish Shadow would be like in sa2 again. Btw sa2 is my favorite sonic game.
Your right sa2 shadow I hate team dark to
Shadow is immortal. that's how he survived
He's Only Immortal To Aging, He's Still able To Die
When Shadow died Sega had originally planned on keeping him dead. The only reason they brought him back was cos how many fans loved him and begged for him to come back
It's simple. His edges aren't rounded enough.
-He's not a well rounded character-
I definitely agree with a lot of your points here. I personally really love the dialogue between Sonic and Shadow in the final boss of SA2 where Shadow really lightens up and acts like Sonic's friend, and is genuinely impressed by his abilities. I would love to see the edge-lord personality dropped, although I think Ian Flynn manages to strike a pretty good balance between the two sides. In Archie and IDW, Shadow can still be a bit aggressive and brutal, but his softer side is far more pronounced as well. His arc in the Shadow Saga of Sonic Universe involves him trying to reason with Metal Sonic and Omega by talking with them, instead of just fighting. I wish the games could show that kind of complexity again.
I also agree that Sonic's character has regressed a lot too, and that's from a combination of terrible scripts and terrible voice acting, but I suppose I shouldn't open another can of worms.
Archie Shadow is hardly aggressive and brutal. When fighting Metal Sonic in Sonic Universe 1, Shadow tries to reason with Metal, saying he can change and become a better person and not be used as a tool of destruction
just reading the tittle I can already agree, Sonic Boom is his WORST appearance, Shadow was my favorite character but now is...bleh
Houzuki 98 the tv show or the games?
The Super
both
Sonic boom is a satire spin off so whatever.
@@yungmuney5903
I know it's a spin off but they could have done so much more whit Shadow
Pizza Parker
I'm not going to lie, I don't like the game but I really like the series, tho I wish Shadow was better in Sonic Boom, heck I prefer if they replace Shadow whit Silver, I know it's something random I want but Silver could have being a really cool character in the Boom series
We need to bring this to SEGA
It also bothers me that they changed the skin around his mouth. It used to be yellowish and went well with the red and black. Now he's got the same peach as Sonic, Amy, Knuckles, Rouge, Espio, Silver etc. It's boring character design to make everyone the same. It's especially obvious from his old clip art.
Thank friggin you! I was just think about this topic earlier this week. I hate how people love Shadow as being Edgy, because that's not Shadow. Thet really need to do another Arc based game and get Shadow right.
In Sonic forces I do like his little "defense squad" quote. It showed he still had some of his old, sarcastic character in him. Somewhere.
I hated that line. So fucking stupidly redundant and not funny. Felt like they shoehorned Pontaff Sonic dialogue into him.
@@TheDen-ec9xe have you not played Heroes? He had Sonic-like lines.
"It'll be a date to die for!"
It makes him better. Better than the edgy version of him
@@Jarrell444 That was BEFORE the Colors Era, and he was still amnesiac.
That "Defense squad" line is redundant and just not funny at all. Pretty much like the dumb shit Sonic spouts since Colors. And he still acts like a stereotypical edgelord parody in Forces nonetheless because of this.
@@TheDen-ec9xe nobody said it was funny. It's FITTING to the ORIGINAL Shadow. What would YOU like to hear him SAY INSTEAD?
Because I bet it would be worse
@@Jarrell444 Uhhhhh No, it doesn't. If anything, it falls more in line with the edgelord stereotype Pontac and Graff write him as, since he's joking over killing ppl off screen.
And don't assume shit you don't know lol
I was 4 years old when I first played shadow the hedgehog. I liked the fact that he could use guns to defend himself as well as chaos blast. I never figured out that there was a secret ending to it until I was 12 lol. It's still a really good game in my eyes and it brings nostalgia
It's kind of sad how 06 had the best potrayal of shadow
06 ain't even that bad shut up
Yeah, I absolutely despise when companies bring back characters that should stay dead. It's not just Sega, others do it too. Sigh, not much you can do tho.
In a way it's kind of a blessing in disguise tho, I LOVED Shadow in 06 tbh (his arc with Mephiles was great imo). I thought he was also cool in his Forces DLC. Other than that though (Heroes Shadow (Heroes' story sucked, let's be honest), Gens Shadow, Boom Shadow, Forces Shadow (after his DLC (I genuinely would've preferred if he replaced Classic Sonic in the main game, could've made things a lot better imo)), etc)... Yeah, meh. I just hope they do something useful with him in future games tbh, would be awesome!
Also, you forgot about his Sonic Chronicles character. There's some sweet moment where he thanks the crew for saving Omega or something, and calls him a good friend.
I agree Shadow pre 2010 was an amazing character. Even tho he got ruined I still like him. In the recent game I saw him in he's arrogant but at least got good intentions. And in the recent IDW issue he seems to be regretting his foolhardy choice to fight the zombies and dismissing Sonic's advice as cowardice. He said he'd thank Sonic if he had the chance which I liked
I feel like if SA2 came out today Shadows phrase "Maria" would be a meme at least it was in my house at the time.
That's not really the opposite of what he was. I agree they haven't gotten him right in recent games, but I'd argue his return was a good thing, because like you said, he had a crap ton of potential, and gained a following very quickly. And Shadow was always a more aggressive character. He wasn't an outright hothead, but like you said, he had emotion, no matter how much he tried to hide it. He was violent and aggressive, just not a hothead. His aggression along with his appearance were there to trick us into thinking he was evil, when really, he's an anti-hero at heart. He isn't a hero or villain. He's a hero that does things his own way, and accomplishes his goals by any means necessary. But he doesn't fight for evil. He fights for his friends, and what's right.
I don't get why you keep using that scene in Forces as an example. What? He can't fight off bad guys anymore, because apparently that makes him too edgy? Come on. Shadow was always a powerful character that used his power for what he felt was right. You say he was this open guy in Adventure 2, but he really wasn't. He still had emotions, but he hid them, just like he did in Shadow The Hedgehog and 06, because like you said, he felt that if he got closer to anyone, he'd end up losing them.
Now, I'm not saying Shadow The Hedgehog got... Shadow The Hedgehog right. Hell no. It had some good scenes like the opening cutscene before Westopolis, and most of the other CGI cutscenes, but overall, Shadow in that game tried way too hard to be edgy. I don't mind him saying damn. That isn't a swear word. I don't know why everyone's saying it is. It's not like he's saying fuck. But that game did have a lot of scenes where they over exaggerated his edginess to the point of pure silliness.
I actually think Shadow was at his best in Adventure 2, Heroes, the CGI cutscenes in Shadow The Hedgehog, Sonic The Hedgehog (2006), and Sonic Rivals 2. He wasn't perfect in Forces at all, but he was far better in Forces than he was in the Sonic Boom games and show. And also Generations.
If Shadow becomes more heroic in nature than Sonic, then Sonic has no real purpose as Sonic. Shadow has to contrast Sonic on a opposite way Sonic dislikes naturally. This being not only is Shadow more brutal and trigger happy, Shadow will despise Sonic on some personal level of beliefs.
That is because shadow never truns back.