Silver Lab | Is It A Real Labrador Retriever?
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Is a Silver Lab a real Labrador Retriever? In today's video Uncle Stonnie is asking for your opinion related to the current state of Labrador Retriever bloodlines and breeding practices.
Post your thoughts below!
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I'd love to spend a day on your farm with my black Labby girl. You've got quite the spread and I must admit I'm a bit envious at times watching your videos. The rest of the time I'm just happy to have a couple half wooded acres as a renter :)
Beautiful dog , good muscle tone
I have a yellow lad great demeanor , all lads are great dogs
This ol' dog says, if you don't want anything to do with a Silver Lab, then don't. If you like/want a Silver Lab, love 'em as much as they love you. And if you want to be ultra-legalistic, anything other than a 100% true wolf is a mutt. They're man's best friend. Be happy with what you enjoy, and allow others the same enjoyment. He looks like a GOOD boy.
My problem with the breeding of silver labs (and other "special" colors) is that (as far as I have seen) they are not being bred by ethical breeders. I also personally hesitate on any dog that is dilute, because there is a strong correlation between dilute coats and skin problems. But really, the breeders producing silver labs seldom do any health testing and seldom provide lifetime support for their dogs to ensure they don't end up in shelters. I've personally have never seen a silver lab produced by parents with titles to prove their temperaments made them worth breeding (be is a field title or even a CGC). As I am sure you know, we are seeing a spike in dogs with behavior problems, and it is known that when you breed poor temperament dogs you have a high chance of poor temperament puppies. This leads to bites, dogs moving from home to home, and dogs being put down. So if someone wants a silver lab that's from fully health-tested parents with some sort of titles and breeder support/take back for the life time of the dog, go for it, just be aware of the problems associated with dilute coats. I don't care about the purity of a dog as long as such things are disclosed and breeding is being done in a way to provide the greatest chances of healthy successful offspring.
As a trainer with a specialty in reactivity/aggression, I do believe that high health and temperament standards of breeding stock is vital for all dogs being bred, no matter the breed or lack there of.
I feel similarly, I wouldn't mind if I saw a quality breeder happen to produce a silver lab, but I haven't personally ever seen them coming from breeders with good practices and standards
Health problems in dogs due to breeding has NEVER stopped people from buying dogs of a certain breed
Silver Labs originate from Beaver Creek Kennels, which also bred Weimaraners. If Silver was a rare gene, we'd see it pop up in other kennels, especially kennels in other countries. This was the deal with chocolates, they appeared rarely, but appeared with consistency in hundreds of kennels. It could possibly be a random mutation, but what are the chances of the random mutation happening in a kennel that just happened to raise other dogs that carried that same dilution gene already.
I don't think it was an accident. When the first 1/2 Lab/Weim pups came out, it was clear that a Weim climbed over the fence just based on the pups. I think the people liked the result, and bred to 7/8ths lab and 1/8th wiem and THEN started passing it off as a new type of lab. I think the problem was they were being dishonest. I think they should have said they created a new breed rather than a new type of labrador retriever.
I think they did it for profit but also love of dogs. I think most breeders breed dogs for both profit and they love dogs. And breeders produce unique things for profit. That unique thing could be dogs decended from a show ring grand champion, a great duck dog, an exceptionally large or small variant, an existing coat color brought to an extreme (red labs, white labs being extreme yellows) .
I think there's nothing wrong with creating something new just be honest about it. After all the golden retriever was created from a guy mixing flat coated retrievers with irish setters. So there's nothing inherently wrong with creating a new retriever by mixing wiems and labs.
I'm also going to contrast with the rare Black and Tan lab. More on another post there
We owned two black labs before our current chocolate. We say our chocolate is an embarrassment to the breed. 😊 She doesn't like to swim and won't fetch. But she is a good dog and family pet.
I have a 4.month ikd silver never had this breed Before..beautiful dog seems harder to train.. however everyone says labs are easy to Train. Maybe it's just me !
I had a female black lab for 16 1/4 years, never ill, sound as can be, athletic, driven, beautiful temperament, never a pound over 63. Would not get wet - even for a bath without a struggle. Until an abysmally hot summer when she was 11 she finally accepted that laying in the shallow fresh water at a local pond was tolerable!
Don't feel bad, I have a black lab who hates the water, never fetched a ball in her life. She has been a couch potato since I got her at 12 weeks old. She however the most gentlest girl, and loves to cuddle. I wouldn't have it any other way
Stonnie, I just love your gentle "suggestion" to Be Civil. So many folks have a default behavior of mean and their opinion is the only one that counts. Let's enjoy the the process of dog/puppy shopping and or rescue. Do your homework in regard to your lifestyle. Think of what will work for you and THE doggo. As Stonnie says..."met expectations" makes for the best outcome. Stonnie your common sense AND consistent hard work pays off. Good rule of thumb for life. Cathy Miller
i have a 2 yr old silver lab. met both parents who were chocolate labs. our girl is amazing, perfectly healthy.
i’ve had a yellow lab previously. very similar in all aspects except for color.
either way, we love her and she loves us back, the same that all labs do
LAB/Weimeramar mix. Not a silver lab. No such recognized breed.
Thats the only that matters, Love!
@mayank1987 not sure what your point is
@mayank1987 I love all dogs . My point was that for judging and field trials , they would have to be in another category. Not in the Labrador Retriever category , that's all.
my point was regardless what the dogs breed, colour or any other thing people care about. It doesnt matter does it, you love that furbaby regardless. They're the greatest beings!
@@j.c.doutdoors133
I want to start off with I love your videos. When we got our silver labs 5 years ago we watched a bunch of your training videos to help with their training.
Just our personal experience we haven’t had any health issues or skin issues with our silvers. We also did a dna test on them and they both came back 100% Labrador retrievers. Our girls are well tempered. Now the urge to go retrieve is lacking in one of them. Luna is our couch potato, but Leia could fetch all day long. My husband has taken her on many hunts and she has done just as well if not better than some of the other “pure” labs.
Their sister lives down the street and she doesn’t have any health/skin issues either. She is just a big girl! Weighing in at 120 pounds. Our girls are 70 & 90 pounds.
We are very proud of our girls.
Not Labs. Sorry! Abd your friend with a 120lb Lab down the street? That's abuse. A lab or, in your case, lab cross should never weigh that much. That's unhealthy.
Mismarks have been recorded since the breed’s founding and silver is never mentioned while tan points and brindle are. The gene is also only found in dogs in the US and their decedents, not in populations from around the world. The color first pops up in lines/decedents from a kennel that bred both Labs and Weimaraners and popularized the “pointing Lab” as an upland bird dog. This was the 1940’s and 1950’s. A few crosses 50+ generations ago will not leave any DNA evidence if you cross back to Labradors for enough generations.
So the dogs are “purebred” in the sense that they have a pedigree with dogs that looked and acted like Labradors, but “mixed breed” in the sense that illicit crosses were concealed so there is an unrecorded cross after the breed was supposed to have a closed stud book.
In any event, the color is incorrect under every breed standard, associated with health problems, and for those reasons is not being intentionally produced by good breeders.
Love the common sense and consensus-based approach advocated by Stonnie here. The “wrapping paper” metaphor is a great way to view these beautiful dogs. I have a wonderful black “field” lab myself, but as a former owner of an ancient breed (Samoyed ftw 😊) I do find it a bit trivial to bicker over whether a line goes back 75 years or 175 years.
Healthy, happy, makes you smile? Job done!
I don't think that's the argument here :)
I am the owner of a wonderful Black English Lab. He is a good retriever, can’t keep him out of the water, and my daughter trained him to be a therapy dog. So he’s the therapy dog that hunts! No one thinks he is a lab, because there used to the the “Americanized” tall thin version.
I am more upset with the labradoodle than the different colors.
Some people think the opposite aka it’s not a lab unless it is fat! Doesn’t the reality of the perfect all round lab sit somewhere in the middle of the two extremes?
At least the Labradoodle isn't trying to pass as a Labrador Retriever. There's no confusion or deception. They aren't trying to pass as pure bred Lab. They are cross between Lab and poodle. I have 3 black Labs. I'm with Stonnie, all Labs want to be Black Labs. That said, I am more concerned about Silvers passing as Labs. Have a wonderful new year!
Your comment about what most people want out of dogs these days is spot on in my opinion. I think that is why we have seen the doodling of every breed. Furthermore, “designer” type dogs are the best manifestation of people wanting a “happy healthy outgoing dog with affable personality that can be wrapped in different colored wrapping paper”. Why else do we see new colors, hair lengths, dilutes, and crossbreeds popping up?
When it comes right down to it, breeds are just classifications that we as humans have made up to be able to identify what type of dog each dog is. Most people that own dogs have likely never read the breed standard of their own dog. If they have, very few of them would be able to tell you how and where their dog falls short of the standard because it is not important to them. The bottom line is, each of us decide what is important to us individually and then follow through according to our beliefs.
For me it is most important that a dog is healthy, durable, and able to perform in the manner I need it to do. Bloodlines and breed registries can help us better understand what a dog is predisposed to.
It’s just occurred to me that part of the problem is that today, lots of dogs seem to be bred for looks rather than action. I don’t know, but a lot of my younger friends like the goldiepoos or labradoodles. I just feel like breeding for trends is probably not the best way to go .
I have a very handsome 8 yo silver lab. He is a big boy, no skin problems, but has the droopy eyes. Biggest mommas boy you will ever meet. I had always thought I wanted a yellow lab until I saw a silver.
As a weim owner I think similarities are impressive .. ears, tail (and how he moves it) , paws and .. and chest with shades that makes like a batman shape haha 🙂.. you have that in weims and vizla.. and color ...of course . He's btw a beautiful puppy doesnt matter the "breed"💪🏼. greetings from Italy, love your channel
Agree. I see a similarity in the loin area too. Depth and set. That's what struck me first.
I agree physical attributes look very Weimaraner. Very different from my black English Lab.
Silver Labs ARE Labs not Weims. They're beautiful. BTW, I have a Weimaraptor.
As a charcoal lab owner, I can’t argue the Weimaraner point. I can say though that the behavior of my dog is consistent with Labrador retrievers. He loves water, loves to fetch, is goofy as can be, and above all - loves to please and is embarrassed when he does something wrong. In my opinion, even if there is Weimaraner in his genes from long ago, you would never know it based on his behavior.
Whereas I have the opposite situation, my dog hates water is not motivated to fetch predictably and has really bad impulse control... However he does have the typical labrador trash can desire for anything resembling food. Although I adopted him at 3 years old so I don't know if it was how he was raised. Personally I'm not a huge fan of charcoal labs because I find that their personalities are so unpredictable, you might have a typical lab or one who seems somehow more stubborn and harder to work with... just in my limited experience with the color. This is why I agree with Stonie about how they are a bit different than your typical lab just in my experience.
I also think that there's a chance they may have more health issues, especially skin related, and I suspect they were selected in breeding for their dilute genetics instead necessarily of rigorous health-based selection. My charcoal lab has many health issues and allergies, and he has been well cared for his whole life! He is only 4.5, so it shocks me the issues he's dealing with!
My silver lab was easily our favorite dog. Definitely was part Weim, not a huge fan of swimming. Behaviorally would track/point and showed way more separation anxiety like a Weim. He was by far smarter and harder worker than any Lab I've owned.
@@ecargttol5913I’m sorry to hear about the issues you’ve had. I think a lot of the success I’ve had with my pup stems from a reputable breeder, and training from the day he came home. Mine does have a little bit of dry skin, in fact, he has a couple dry elbows but I’ve seen dry elbows on the traditional colored labs too.
Love your Videos!
We have any older Black Lab, and he is getting slow and starting to limp.. he is 9yrs.
We had a 9 yr old Dogo Argentino and had to put her down last month. They grew up together and were best friends. I feel he is mourning her. My question is, do you think it is too soon to bring a puppy into the home?
We are thinking about another lab.
I have a Silver Lab. Her mom was a Silver and her dad was a Yellow "Red". I also have a Chocolate male. Both from Lab breeders. The Chocolate is Lab, through and through. He is a little leary of the water due to multiple traumatic incidents with water as a young pup. The Silver is pretty much Lab through and through as well. However, she does have different skin, and fur. She hasn't had any skin issues, possibly because I feed salmon dog food, not sure. She does get oily and needs a bath every 3-4 weeks, but her skin is fine. Her only issue is anxiety and separation anxiety. She is more high strung and can be a bit overbearing sometimes, but she is a very good dog. I do believe the line has weimaraner at some point. First, I read somewhere that a Lab breeder had weimaraners as well. And claimed that there was no crossbreeding, but I can't believe that. Also, my ex father-in-law had weimaraners and my dog has the same ears, fur, skin and temperament. Can't argue what's right in front of you...
Now, I let them breed naturally together once before having both fixed. She had 9 puppies, all Chocolate, 3 males, 6 females. All look like chocolate labs mostly with the males chocolate with dark markings. One male, which we kept has the female silver's yellow eyes. And we kept a female that has the yellowish greenish eyes. They all love the water except the male father, they all retrieve pretty well. They all act like pretty typical labs and we love them all!
I own a wonderful silver lab who is now 3 years old. On choosing a dog - after owning cocker spaniels and greyhounds - the family decided on a lab. My memory of labs growing up was of overweight dogs with greasy coats - not the best starting point! We were not looking for a silver lab, that’s just the type of lab we found at the time. I have to say that he’s the perfect dog for us in every respect - he has a great lab temperament, is happiest when retrieving and is super polite and sociable- we can literally take him anywhere. It does have to be said though that he’s had skin conditions and allergies which have totally been resolved with an injection each month - but at a cost of £200/month - it’s worth it for me but I appreciate that may not be ok for everyone. At the end of the day, your dog is your dog and part of the family, I couldn’t care less about breed standards but I do care about behaviour- a silver lab in my opinion is no different from any other lab but I can’t say that without also saying it’s true that they are prone to allergies, in my experience at least.
He is so pretty. But, black is beautiful! 😊 Just before Covid went wild, I rescued a Siberian husky with unusual personality traits so had her DNA breed tested to learn about the mysterious crazy part of her gene pool. To my not so surprise she was half Siberian AND Belgian Malinois with a bit of mountain Cur. If it was not for her reluctance with strangers (rescued from an abusive puppy farm) she would have gotten her CGC. She loves agility, climbing trees (crazy part), and being “on duty” in the window seat to watch chipmunks, birds, our chickens and letting me know if something or someone is amiss. When a squirrel steals from the bird feeders she does a special woof. She ignores feeding chipmunks. She is very intelligent, but so are Siberians. She knows the names of her toys also. She is quite the challenge for someone 70something. Thank you for your instructive videos.
I share the joy of living with a 2 year old silver lab. She is healthy, loving, goofy, and full of energy. She doesn't comprehend "stranger" and will fetch until your arm falls off.
Labs had a semi open registry for field dogs in the UK until the 70s. You can find interviews of Mary Roslin Williams talking about foxhounds, flatcoats, goldens, border collies, lurchers, and greyhounds being crossed into Labradors. In one of her books she talks of bluish Labradors, which might be a description of a black dilute. Newfoundlands and Chesapeake Bays come in dilute. It is well known that these three breeds are related, and Chesapeakes were among those crossed into Labrador field strains. The show strains have been mostly pure for longer, about as long as flat coats and goldens have been pure. All retrievers were crossed and had other breeds crossed in until the 1920s. They were bred the way lurchers are now. There were many flatcoat Labrador crosses that are in foundation of the Labrador. There was even a imported St. John's water that came from Newfoundland that was bred into the Labrador. The dog's father was a German shepherd. The Newfoundlanders still have a retriever or water dogs that is bred the old way, which is called a Cape Shore water dog.
Great post!
is this kind of historical knowledge available online?
I’ve seen no silver Labs in Italy and UK until now.
I definitely like the attitude of that pup (what’s his name ?), also from previous videos.
If he likes water and moderate retrieve and drive, for me he’s the right dog for someone who likes well behaved dogs for any modern life situation ❤
I’m just here for that pups calm attentive demeanor 😍
This is a long one so bare with me. I normally don’t voice my opinion on hot topics because people can be unreasonable but I think it’s important that there’s a voice on each side of this topic. And my opinion comes as someone who’s been on both sides. I have had labs my whole life growing up. Black, Yellow, or Chocolate. They’ve always had a job doing what they were bred to do.
Now, years and years ago we bred diluted French Bulldogs for about 5 years. I never saw an issue with it. Bulldogs are primarily a companion breed so as long as they’re healthy why not breed them to have fun colors right??? 🥴 But we live, learn, grow & evolve and I can now say my opinion has changed drastically and it’s because of what I’ve seen become of the Frenchie breed and what I’m currently seeing happen with Labs... I do believe the color was introduced by crossbreeding (I’m actually not 100% against cross breeding, but that’s a whole other topic) and it was probably done for one reason only… monetary gain… which makes it wrong. (IMO) And unfortunately that makes the backyard breeders go rampant and it creates a huge problem. I’m in a ton of Lab groups and I see new litters of dilute puppies almost DAILY and most of the time the parents have absolutely no hunting credentials and no health testing. Are there a few exceptions out there? Of course.
Mainly, I think we all need to hold breeders more accountable and people need to stop supporting backyard breeders. Pay top dollar and go to a reputable breeder who breeds with purpose, health, temperament, and improving the next generation in mind. NOT their COLOR. I have absolutely nothing against these beautiful dogs, but I definitely have an issue with the vast majority of backyard breeders who make them.
It's wonderful to see how opinions can change with more information and insight. I'd say the two most important things are 1) The intention of the breeding (will affect how the dogs are screened to include in breeding, inclusion/exclusion of health and problems) and 2) How could this affect the overall health, well-being, and quality of the breed (will ensure that there are more quality individuals to breed in future generations).
@@ErinWilke I completely agree!
Labs have been favorites for years and there are great reasons for that. But no lab has ever won best of show "Why" it seems that judges are unable to accept a lab as a lab. Even though the show labs exactly meet the breed standards. Coloration differences happen all the time in nature but the standards for each bread remain the same. Black, yellow, chocolate or silver shouldn't matter as long at the standards and qualities are there in the dog. I have had many labs in my life and love them all as individuals but my heart always goes to a chocolate.
Becuz the judges hate awarding popular breeds primarily in the sporting group. It's always the itty bitty PITA lap doggos, small doggos, working breed or some weird ass non-popular breed. Never a lab or golden retriever.
I have a chocolate labaraner 🤓🙊 when I brought her home from the rescue group i took one look at those eyes, silver on her chin, paws, belly and said you're not a purebred lab but for $300 i didn't care. She came with an AKC pedigree, incorrect head, jaw The Labrador Retriever club of America under the breed standard, color is a letter written by a doctor on her theory is a breeder submitted silver labs for registrations with AKC not blinking an eye 👀 the breeder who was able to register a number of silver lab litters until AKC stopped. This breeder coincidentally also bred Weimaraners!
I researched the breeder name of my labaraner and saw he and another kennel routinely advertise silver, charcoal labs. My dog also has the Weimaraner ridge on the top back of her head.
In early October I was given a black labusky 🥰 Dakota is a sweetie and a great playmate for my labaraner. I used to show dogs, find AKC a joke as well as some of the breeders that are greed motivated instead of caring about improving the genetics.
Thank you for the interesting conversation Stonnie 😊
Always appreciate your common sense approach .❤
Most breeds that have faced extinction or had health issues have had multipe other breeds mixed in to keep them going, and they are still considered pure breeds - If they meet the build, temperment, and functionality of the breed they are intended to be, who cares if something else was added a few generations ago? Adding in a new breed here and there helps the breed by adding in genetic diversity.
Plus, considering how the kennel clubs have changed standards so much that half the dogs are functionally useless for the original purpose. As well as many being bred to have breathing problems, and not even be physically capable of giving birth to their own puppies, I highly doubt they are all that concerned about breed health.
Those same issues silver and blue labs have, are the same issues that are considered normal and accepted to show up in labs and weimeraners, along with several other breeds accepted into their standards.
I didn't know about silver labs! He's beautiful! I'm no dog expert but every breed started out as a mix of breeds, so yes they're real labs.
Peggy, sorry they are not Labs. They are a lab cross.
We have an 8 yr old silver lab, which we got at the local shelter about 5 years ago. He looks a lot like the one in this video, except his nose is a little longer. Everywhere we go with him, people rave about how beautiful he is. He is our first pure bred dog and we had not heard of silvers until we met him. I don't know anything about the history / Weimaraner issue. He has golden brown eyes but we have met another one with blue eyes. He does have a lot of health issues including thyroid problems, allergies and "not bad but not good" hips and knees according to our vet. He had a torn ACL a few years ago and our vet ruled out retrieving. Luckily he is not really into retrieving! He isn't really into swimming either and doesn't have webbed feet! He doesn't have an undercoat and has had skin problems at times. The thyroid meds seem to help with that. However, he does have the sweet, gentle lab personality. We didn't go looking for a pure bred dog but he was so sweet we fell for him. I don't think we would go looking for another one. We aren't really into the pure bred scene. We just want a lovable pup that will enjoy outdoor adventures with us.
100% agree 💗
Love the idea! What a beautiful dog! As long as the dog is healthy and good tempered. Most breeds came from mixing different breeds in the development.
Key word is healthy. Majority of “silver” labs have a lot of health issues….allergies, skin, etc. Some personalities are decent, most are more “sketch.”
“Silver” is not a dominant color. It’s a recessive gene; same as the “Fox Red.”
@@Mers0913 small correction: "Fox Red" is a recognized shade of yellow, specifically noted in the breed standard.
"Yellow-Yellows may range in color from fox-red to light cream, with variations in shading on the ears, back, and underparts of the dog."
My yellow lab has a lot of red. Not as much as a fox red but enough where people think he’s a mix of some sort.
@Mers0913 Dogs have health issues in general. Feeding them crap food and trying to keep them alive forever, they're going to have health issues. My dogs are bred against a laundry list of health issues. My Silver Lab has had, and currently has no health issues. My chocolate, which on paper, appears to be bred against nearly every health issue you can think of... he has seizures. Even when trying to play God, you can't prevent everything, forever. Enjoy your dogs for what they are and try to give them the best life you can while they're here!
What a beautiful silver lab! I couldn't care less where or how or how pure Slate might be. He's a goood boy!
I love the idea of adding to bloodlines. Many dogs today are new breeds which were bred from many other breeds. And older breeds are not necessarily better. Watching you train the show Shepard made me cry 😢. I would love to see healthy be the breed standard for all dogs.
I have a 5 year old field silver Lab. Genetic testing says 100% Lab, for what that is worth. I also have a 9 Year old show Chocolate. Both trained easy and listen well, and have body types and activity levels consistent with their lineage. The chocolate retrieves longer than the silver. She also tires more easily. The silver is a little more vocal and protective. On a day to day basis, I simply do not see the Wiem traits present themselves in my silver. I can not say this is due to the genetic makeup of the dog, or simply the personality of the individual pup. I will say that if I wanted a working hunting dog, I would likely choose a well bred Black lab. If I'm looking for a great family dog which has all the best traits of a lab, the color would not matter in my choice. Proper and consistent training is the key. I have followed Stonie's philosophy and training methods for a long while. They don't do any tricks, but I have two dogs who act appropriately in any given situation or environment, and that's what I have always wanted.
That is factually incorrect to that your silver lab is 100% lab. Your silver lab has the double dilute or dd recessive gene which is not present in any other labrador retriever.
@@heflindan Yes, I understand the genetics of recessive and dominant genes, and am aware of what you are saying, as my skepticism to which I alluded too in my comment explained, however, wisdom Panel DNA testing returned an analysis which concluded 100% Lab, Tracing through both actual parents and grandparents and many litter mates. I do not really care either way, I was just stating the facts I have before me. The AKC argument is inconsequential to me.
@@ronkusmier143 Apologies I did not pick up on the skepticism in the first comment.
So you would agree then the Wisdom Panel is flawed by not testing D - locus gene type?
@@heflindan No apologies needed. I would agree. The testing was a disappointment as I believed there would be some enlightenment along the dogs lineage. The results were unexpected. At some point, I do believe Wiem DNA became part of the lineage. My question then becomes how many generations ago? and at what point does it become so diluted that most all of the Wiem traits are washed away? Its Interesting!
I think breed standard is something that SHOULD be a stricter thing. Health should be a top priority, along with color and I do think those dogs should be expensive. I believe the color of a working dog should have a purpose. Yellow labs blend into the grass when hunting, Black labs blend into the water for duck hunting. Silver labs.. well they just look good on a couch or walk on a road.
Color standards are there so that we know if mixes happen because the breed standards do evolve. After a certain time I think lines should be cut because of what "exotic" franchise and "Aussie" "Border" "tea cup" doodles have become. Cutting lines and doing dirty work is NEEDED. Especially in a world as big as the dog world. I'll be honest and say I don't really even want to get rid of doodles entirely, because ive seen a purpose for them, but the coloration and mixing beyond retrievers and poodles, has got to stop. Because your not just mixing colors, but behaviors, bone structures, and that leads to health issues.
Totally beautiful... gorgeous puppy
And yes keep them coming❤
Hey Stonnie, you re just such a cool and good guy, love how you can really take the dog's perspective. Grew up with a yellow lab and thinking about getting my own after university :)
Stonnie, I'd be interested in your general thoughts about the shifts in how breeds are developing, or novel breeds in modernity. Seems as though we had this crazy breakout period 300-200 years ago that accounts for 90% of the dimorphism we see and we've been bottlenecking ever since.
Hey Stonnie and Crew, love to see a Duck Tolling Retriever comparison to other retrievers. Done my research but your perspective snd actually seeing them side by side would be great. Think you’ve done almost every retriever so love to see smallest retriever out there. Think size and athleticism perfect for family and I, just a little worried about mental/physical stimulation on busy days during week. Thanks, always learn so much, and seeing dogs side by side what sets you apart from other channels out there. Planning few years ahead to find perfect dog to fit my family’s and my lifestyle
We have a 3 month old silver lab and we adore him!
What really grinds my gears is one guy tried to to sell them to me like they’re some kind of rarity and a more desirable retriever than a black lab. Ever since then, I associate all silver and charcoal lab owners with that guy.
I don’t really care what color it is or what the breed is. If the dog will hunt, it’s a good one in my book. But don’t blow smoke up my ass about genetics when it’s clearly just a lab mix.
Yea if the breeders are not in it for the money they wouldn't charge more for the silvers. Also when stonnie mentioned that other labs can cost more that's usually because they have show or field pedigree in the bloodline. I'm a black lab guy like stonnie but love all nice dogs.
That is a beautiful puppy! Love this video.
He seems a bit clumsy for a lab but otherwise he's cute AF 😍. The next video featuring this pup will be interesting.
Hi Stonnie. Regardless of my opinion, that is a handsome looking pup. My anecdotal experience with a handful of Silver Labs was that to a degree, they all had health issues. Some minor and one had such severe skin problems it had to have it's tail removed. Now any unethical breeder can have issues with their dogs, but right now I would not recommend a Silver Lab to anyone.
Trust me, plenty of ethical breeders have tons of issues with their dogs also.
@@StonnieDennis if they're ethical then they're up front and honest about it.
We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback. She’s considered a purebred dog. But if you look into the history of the breed, there are definitely many breeds combined to get to the RR.
Beautiful Dog ! In the 70’s up to mid 80’s i had a Half Weim and Half Black Lab- Mayla was a GREAT Dog !
Laid back and a real family dog - easy going- I would love a Silver Lab ! Gorgeous !
Love your videos. Good topic!
Can’t all lab owners just get along? ✊🏽
Handsome boy. Health is my primary concern, they do not live long enough for me.
Stonnie, enjoy your content.
For all the people on here that say they would love a silver lab, I would LOVE for them to get a silver lab and then ALSO get a black “English chubby” from a breeder that puts emphasis on health, temperament, soundness, and structure (not color) then compare the two as they grow. How is each of their trainability? Anxiety? How do they respond to novel situations? How to they handle stress, like going to the vet, for example? How do they respond to strangers? Is one more hyper than the other? Does one require more exercise? Is one generally easier to live with than the other? Does one have more general health issues to mange than the other? Is one’s coat glossier or in general better condition than the other? How do they compare orthopedically? In this imaginary scenario, the owner would have to train and play with them separately, to really see their differences and also to prevent littermate syndrome…. But it would be fascinating.
Thank you Stonnie. I subscribed back in 2013 for the sole purpose of being ready for my first ever dog. At that time we got a labradoodle from a multi generation breeder.
In my extensive research the silver lab does not benefit the breed. The health issue are to great for no added benefit. I do not blame the dogs. The dd gene came from the Kellogg Kennel in the 50s. Again I don't blame dogs but driver, based on a rational conversation, is to simply have a silver colored lab.
BTW our Piper is a great dog and a lot of that is from the time we put in when she was younger and watching your videos.
I think something worth pointing out is that many moons ago chocolate labs were not accepted as breed standard and frowned upon over their preferred black counter parts and were culled from the litters, now they are accepted and included in the standard.
As a professional in the dog trade (nutrition and training) in the UK and a heavy labrador ambassador, i have seen a steady rise in numbers of 'champagne', 'charcoal' and 'silver' labradors. I try to sit on the fence with my opinion on them as i simply havent collected enough data and experience om them to make a fair comment or judgement. that being said, im very sceptical about them and they have the makings of a FAD such as the labradoodle. People want something different, unusual and unique and are turning more and more to mixed breeds and 'rare colours' of breeds (you see it heavily in the frenchie and bulldog market). I do worry about how silver labs will effect the health of the labrador breed in the future.
I have had the opportunity to work with approximately ten silver labradors so far, the three biggest health concerns i have seen regularly so far are their very dry, course coat (and skin). Their excess amount of skin (especially around the head and neck) and gastric tract digestive issues. It seemed to be a running theme in the silvers.
What you said about are breeds becoming a thing of the past is right in the money. People now live very different lives to the originators of the breed. People want certain looking dogs and want them to fit a niche roll (mainly not to malt, look at how many breeds are being crossed with poodles!). Will we have the labrador as we know it in 50 years time?
As you point out they were culled at birth as they were seen as weaker or of a poorer ability , it happened in many breeds mine included (Mastiff) and stopped on legal and ethical grounds many decades ago but they were there when the (labrador) studbook was closed 1903 in UK and 1917 in USA. the very early historical writings by the originators of modern pedigree breeds showed this, they did not have the science of dna testing and tracking to confirm parentage and recessive traits, tools which we can and should use today. It's easy to infiltrate a breed with another and then seek to legitimise these new colours, 3-4 back breeding into the chosen bred and they're almost unrecognisable it's how we see all these new "rare" colours pop up in say frenchies and bulldogs. dishonest breeders registered the crosses as pure kept the colour carriers and hey ho up pops a black and tan or a lilac or a blue all recessive easy to hide but harder to breed, and even a merle, never seen in the breed and a dominant factor so would have been there since studbook beginnings, never mentioned in historical writing but 100+ yrs later here it is. The breed standards are changed very rarely and on a very minor way , what changes a breed from its predecessors is our interpretation of that standard , some ppl like a certain look of head or ear carriage or gait and breed for that, how much they deviate from the standard is the question its why shows exist , to have your lines assessed by another to gauge your lines to the written blue print of the breed .
Love the videos. Any recommendations for finding good breeders?
I agree your views about the colour being “ the wrapping” , except when a certain colour is associated with a genetic weakness.
I have a 7-month-old female silver lab, she is a great retriever loves water is super sweet and loves everybody.
I have one. He's 3 now. His name is Guage. I call him my manufactured dog LoL 🤣 I like your video. Thx for posting this ❤
Can not wait for the next instalment.. My dog is of no known bloodline. She is a 4 colour street dog from the Greek island of Aegina. In Greece there is a hunting dog breed of similar appearance .. her Mum perhaps but Dad provided her with a un-proportionately small head (to body) allowing her to escape through tiny gaps and out of collars. Nevertheless less her body is beautifully proportioned and she could out run every dog in our area. She is approaching 17 years old .. so lucky to find her..
To my understanding, Silver Labs are Chocolate Labs with a genetic mutation. The AKC allows you to register them as Chocolate. My wife and I breed Labradors. That's my two cents...lol
AKC is only about money the parent club does not recognize silver. Silver is not a genetic mutation it was the introduction of the dd gene.
I hadn’t heard of silver labs before watching your channel, so I don’t have an opinion about them either way or anything to add to the conversation, but Slate seems like a nice puppy - such big paws! 😊
Absolutely gorgeous!
We have had 2 silver- labs. Our first was retired breeding boy with more hound features, poor skin and droopy eyes. Our current silver lab Daisy has more traditional lab features like this one .Her fur is very soft and her skin and eyes are perfect, She is driven and eager to please. . She is a natural retriever and when we trail run she always carry a large log in her mouth and always is behind me ready for an order. She hikes in the backcountry up and is the first to be behind me on a ski downhill, She s a real working dog and also protects me from other female dogs . She will also bark at night when it's time for all our dogs to get in the kennel . My alpha male black lab is playful much more food driven, goofy and unreserved . Very different but together a great pair . Our third is a bull mastiff/plotthound mix . Great on the trail but can sleep all day. If I had to live off the land or was a duck hunter it would clearly be a silver lab. I have a video in my feed about skiing with these three dogs in Vermont that demonstrates some of these traits.
In my opinion he’s a good boy and it doesn’t matter what breed he is. 😍😋🐾🐶
As a current Dog Dad to a 5 year old Silver Labrador Retriever and growing up around people that always had the 3 main colors and recently the red fox color as well, the look the demeanor the energy the drive to do the job that there breed for my dog Emma has been the most “Lab” I’ve ever seen even vs hunting labs of family and friends over my life time of 26 years a loving family dog and a hard working/playing field dog. I was new to the color thing when it came to labs and didn’t know that silver or charcoal or red fox was a thing till I researched into getting Emma and when I did I was gonna go with chocolate but when I saw her it was meant to be and in my honest opinion I think this is basically dog or Lab racism just cause the color, basic biology will show you how breeding and genetics affects eye, body and fur shape and color among numerous other things and it’s mind boggling to me that people will fight over a color of a dogs fur for literally nothing no benefit to anyone or the dog. I literally got turned away by every trainer except 1 but then that didn’t work out after a couple weeks just for the sheer fact that Emma was the color silver… it’s absolutely ridiculous to me that people are that purest over something they have no control or say over that happens in breeding.
I would love to know if many of the silver labs are coming from hunting blood lines or are they being puppy milled for the color.
I had a silver lab in 1997. Silver Belle. Sweetest dog but numerous skin and other allergies. Miss her every day.
I have never hunted, but had a silver lab growing up. She was the most amazing dog with an amazing personality. She had a beautiful coat, color and temperament. Taken too soon by bloat/stomach twist triggering a seizure from other issues we never knew she had. I would get another Silver Lab in a heartbeat and recommend to anyone.
never heard of them before but that puppy is lovely
I have xl bullies the blue or silver is a beautiful color... though a flaw in the pigmentation development it creates a great look... love your obstacle course by the way
Beautiful Lab!
I liked your video as I have often wondered if silver's were still only bred for looks or was it capability? Similar to field trial labs that can be short and fast. I tend to like to like longer legged labs for upland hunting. So there are a lot of variables within the bred already for different capabilities.
I love any lab there all lovable and caring creatures
I have only ever had One lab she was chocolate. Sweet as can be. Good dog. I think everyone has a right to choose whatever kind of dog you want. What difference does it make what color it is? Dogs have health problems especially pure breds .
Color aside, Slate looks like a real lab. Qualifier here, this is coming from a fox red lab owner. Did everyone see the size of Slate’s feet?
I think they are beautiful. Everyone of them I've met have been well tempered, curious and eager to please.
FYI:
The Vet School at University of CA at Davis is doing extensive research on Lab health and genetics. They are doing gene typing for Labs
I rescued a pale yellow English 2 year old. We are in our 80s in an good dog walking neighborhood.
Sunny is VERY LAZY, with occasional zoomies.
He can enjoy a walk up to about 2/3 of a mile and then is happy to get home to his cushy bed.
He has VERY DROOPY EYELIDS, which I didn't expect. Since we are city people with a yard, Sunny isn't going to be running through tall brush. That being the case, should I be keeping him in REX SPECS or other goggles?
Does he have a lot of tearing/ runny eyes? Does his conjunctiva look red instead of pink? I wouldn’t worry about it since you, yourself said he’s lazy and only takes walks around the neighborhood. Remember, bloodhounds also have baggy/droopy eyelids (ectropion) and they manage to track in the woods just fine. On a very windy day, it is something to keep in mind, especially if you notice him squinting. Might also be a good question for you vet the next time he has an appointment.
I would only do it if you're going to go somewhere with lots of brush. I'd be mindful of running in a field on a dry, windy day to spare him as much dust, but it's probably not necessary at all
I have a 12 year old silver field bred lab, bought before the breathless reviews. I have had people comment, the truth is I saw the parents of the pup, played with them in the yard while my pup was swimming in the horse trough. She could have been purple, it wouldn’t have mattered, I was so impressed with mom and dad. I’ve had 27 retrievers, and it’s all about the relationship with the animal, nothing else matters to me. Sixty years ago, I went to a friend’s house to see the first yellow I had ever seen, I bet there were some whispering about them then also. As far as the civility goes, we have the same thing with EVs, strong opinions, mostly too strong. Me, I like my thirty year old wagon, but appreciate the technology of an EV. I think we should all celebrate that we found something we like, and leave it at that.
I think there's a couple things going on. Some are very clearly "Weimadors" while others are dilutes. I haven't studied up on breeding dilutes, but my guess is the percentage isn't high even if both parents carry the DD (recessive color) gene. There's also other problems with flavor of the month or designer dog breeding, they come with a lot of potential health issues due to the limited breeding pool and selecting for color as the primary trait. Almost all dilutes including Labs have CDA (Color Dilute Alopecia) to one degree or another, and the shorter their coat the worse it is. My guess is this is why Weimaraners were bred into the mix... it kind of ruins their designer coat if half of it is falling out or plagued with skin problems. I'm sure there are other health issues as well, due to the selection focus on color over health and temperament. I'll take a good old American black Lab field bred for health and temperament any day over the canine fashion craze. Looking forward to seeing the long version Stonnie, I know you'll do diligent homework on this one :)
I have a Boykin Spaniel. The “foundation” dog was an unknown breed named “Dumpy”. Subsequently, good hunting dogs were added: American Water Spaniel, Chesapeake Bay Retriever, and I don’t know what else. Today Boykins are all some shade of brown.
Horse people used to say there is no good horse of a bad color. The real issue is to know exactly what constitutes a good horse . . . or a good dog.
Our 12 year old black lab has a gray muzzle and gray on paws and lower legs. We’ve had her two years as she was a rescue. She has been a wonderful dog with the best temperament. I attributed the gray to age, but now I’m wondering if she has some silver in her genes.
*Edit* My comment is less than the quality this channel deserves. While I definitely believe this statement, Uncle Stonnie asked for more/better, which is in my longer reply a couple comments down.
An exhaustive list of reasons for breeding dilute Labrador Retrievers:
1. Profit
End of list.
I’m pretty sure you didn’t watch the whole video…
@@StonnieDennis You made some great points in the video, which I did continue to watch all of. Long time fan, so I will fire off some talking points that are hopefully more of what your channel deserves.
I'm one of the people in "the middle" on a lot of things in life and the kind of Labradors I like is no exception. Within arm's reach I have a copy of "The Official Book of the Labrador Retriever", written in conjunction with the Labrador Retriever Club. Start at the front of that book and notice the huge majority of "field bred" or "moderate" dogs in the book. The standard says: "Light, "weedy" individuals are definitely incorrect; equally objectionable are cloddy lumbering specimens. Labrador Retrievers shall be shown in working condition well-muscled and without excess fat." Take a look at some of the field-bred dogs being bred today. Might many of them be considered "weedy"? For sure. Look at the dogs winning in the conformation ring. Are many of them "lumbering specimens" being shown definitely-not in working condition and likely couldn't put in a half day in the field? Absolutely. I think we've lost the appreciation for moderation in the Labrador breed. One extreme wants performance with no regard for the breed standard and the other extreme seems to want to slowly create oversized, "blocky", droopy dogs in a "bigger is better" mentality; dogs that don't or can't perform Labrador tasks. Both are an equal disservice to the breed in my opinion.
Specifically regarding dilutes: having a color preference is in all of us. I agree with you there is really only one color of Labrador, not three, because I think they all want to be black! However, breeders that don't breed chocolates, or really prefer yellows, more power to them. When things instantly shift for me, is in purposely breeding off-standard colors. Let's be honest, the number of people breeding the absolute best Labradors they can breed that didn't intentionally introduce the dilute off-standard gene, yet they produce dilute puppies, is pretty low. The reason for doing so was producing an off-standard color as it is recognized today. How many are truly out there to better the breed in health, performance or to preserve the Labrador breed as we know it and those dogs just coincidentally happened to be dilute? I'm not saying it is zero, but it is nearing zero. Breeding specifically for off-standard color, or charging a premium for said color, is a cornerstone of red flag breeding practices IMO. I see similar themes in many breeds I have no interest in e.g. merles or tan point in a breed that doesn't recognize them.
We all have our desire to pick and choose "deal breakers" when it suits us, but intentionally breeding for something like an off-standard color in a well-established breed is easy, low hanging fruit IMO.
100% facts!!
Well said,
The Labrador as a breed is loved to death. Meaning it is being bred to satisfy too many tasks and wants.
I bred my dog to duck hunt and upland hunt. I will only sell the puppies to hunters.
My bitch is exactly what your description depicts. Not weedy, and not a big chubby beauty, she is high energy, but not high strung, she is loving but not a soft, she is smart but not conniving, she is adaptable, versatile, and trainable.
She is black as all good labs should be.
I’ve been blessed to hunt with a lot of great labs in duck clubs I belong too. Funny how few silvers, whites, and charcoal you actually see hunting.
@@adamw4469 St. John's water dog
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_water_dog
What's is your opinion on charcoal labs? It is considered a dilute lab as well.
Silver, black, yellow. A sweetheart is a sweetheart
I can think back to being a kid in the 70s and having a Labrador breeding conversation with my dad. We had labs, and he bred and hunted with them. At the time, there were yellows and blacks: never heard of or saw any of the other colours. It was hard enough understanding how sometimes a litter could have blacks and yellows in it. When I first saw these silver labs, it was on your channel. I own a weim as an adult, and I first thought that’s what they were, running around on your property.
Making a designer dog will always create problems, regardless of what breed it is. I know my weim has personality quirks that you wouldn’t see in a lab. That’s the only thing that I’d be concerned about: the mix of behavioural traits…
I know several people who have gone to the local shelter and brought home a mixed breed dog that is awesome. If people want to spend a ton of money on a mix or a purebred dog…so be it. No skin off my back😉
St. John's water dog
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_water_dog
Just love Labs, colour is fantastic 👍👍
We have a two year old silver lab we got when he was being rehomed. Not that we care, but he has AKC papers from the breeder, who clearly was breeding for color. He’s a great dog, loves to fetch, loves everyone. His skin gets a little itchy in the winter but nothing a little fish oil won’t help.
If you put his pic next to a Weim they are so different. If you put a filter on his photo to make him dark brown you’d never think he was anything but 100% lab.
Beautiful dog
Which breed is the bright curly dog following Stonnie as he walks around with the silver Labrador ??
I have a chocolate lab and a black lab they are brothers, same dad different mom chocolate is 6 yrs old and black is 3 . And the black has droopy eyelids, and my vet told me that it is common. And my son paid $600.00 for the chocolate, I paid $800.00 for my black I ended up with the chocolate because the girl my son married has a husky and hates other dogs . Now when my black was born there were 8 pups 3 blacks , 2 chocolate, 2 silver , 1 what they call white . The chocolate and black were $800 , the silver and white $1200.00 . I would like a silver because they are just like the black , lot’s of energy, very playful , a great companion just like my black , my chocolate is a lover , cuddler, and is much bigger . There are differences between the 2 but they are good dogs and I know the silver is just as good . And only reason silver cost more is because they don’t show up as much as chocolate or black.
Got one, he is a lab to me/us. Loves to fetch, loves to swim.
Love the colour and short hair. I’d pick this out of the three.
Stonnie, what brand slip lead do you own?
I have a question off topic. What do you think about the videos of people saying if your dog does this or that it means....? I've watched a few and they seem to contradict each other. I've had dogs since I was young. I'm 65 now and I never heard of the stuff they're saying.
I think you’re right. If u want a Silver Lab , you will pay whatever money you can handle. My son has a Silver Lab and she is very loving and beautiful. Just as long as there is no inter breeding that will cause issues on the dogs behavior or look.
I think hes beautiful for a silver lab. Very alert watching your every move as well he wants to learn and body looks strong juast a nice structure of a dog.
I am an owner of a male Silver Lab, now 4.5ish years old. I raised him from 8.5 weeks of age. Pure loving sweetheart- the kindest most friendly most athletic and joyous dog I have ever interacted with … only thing I have experienced is the itchy skin allergies and skin tendencies towards superficial infections, which are manageable. Which I read/hear are common amongst Silver Labs.
Even if a Weimaraner hybridization resulted in the first Silver Labs (perhaps the truth), it is a common color mutation across many breeds… so who cares? A living loving dog is a treasure and blessing. Let us strive to not be dog eugenicists!
Love your lab
That's a beautiful pup. He looks like what a Lab is supposed to look like. Blocky, square, and strong.
I have owned a couple Lab/Weimaraner crosses. One has his head in my lap right now.
They have all been black, not grey or silver. Black. Black is dominant.
I also currently have a "Blue Weimaraner". He doesn't meet the breed standard because of his color. Modern Weimaraners are a shadow of what they should look like. They are too lightly built these days. These dogs were for hunting big game. Boar, stag, etc. and should be able to run for many miles and still finish the job at the end.
I remember reading Silver Labs are black labs with a genetic mutation that gives them that coloration.
Can I ask what slip lead you’re using?
We have a silver lab. At 4 months he is a wild child. He is going to a trainer this week. He is a retriever Yo throw something he will retrieve It every time. We are in. Montana. He is a beautiful Lab He is a beautiful
Traditionally the three colors have been accepted in the breed standard. However, confirmation comes in two types- English, the shorter & stockier, more insulation for cold water work, and the American, taller and leggier for upland work. (That’s not to say either couldn’t do the other.) In my opinion however, certain physical attributes are applicable to both types, but are significantly different in the silver. Specifically; tail set and ear type/position as well as muzzle definition. As generations pass, I expect those differences will diminish. Whether ever accepted in the breed standard is anyone’s guess, but as all things 'political', the winds of change are ever in motion. I personally don’t care for the color, however, temperament and willingness to train is far more important as a family pet or hunting companion. So for those willing to pay for an oddity regardless of AKC acceptance, provided it has the health clearances, it’s nobody else’s concern.
I have owned a Chocolate lab in the past, but these color morphs seem to be more prevalent in this breed than others (maybe also in Dobermans/GSDs?). I have a Brittany, but want an Epagnuel Breton (French Brittany) in the future, and they are sort of considered to have separate breed standards AKC Brittany/ UKC EB vs being a different color morph (although the EBs have black noses and can have black markings the American Brittany through UKC cannot have black nose or markings at all).
What does a litter look like? Are they all silver or are there blacks, yellows and chocolates mixed in?
Slate is beautiful!
it's a weimarador. i respectfully disagree, it's impossible for you to know that didn't happen (weimaraner addition). to create all the labradors there were mixes, otherwise they'd still be the landrace st. john's water dog that were black with some white.
St. John's water dog
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_water_dog