Approaching the Scene 197: Testing Compact Flash Express B Cards & Readers
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- (LINKS BELOW): I’ve got some new CF Express B cards and readers to test. We’ll compare burst mode and video performance of the cards in Nikon’s blistering fast Z9 as well as the Z7ii. Then we’ll connect the readers up to a Thunderbolt port and see how their stability and transfer speed compare.
LINKED TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00:00 Intro to ATS 197
02:21 Join our next free Office Hours and submit an image for review
03:15 I have CF Express B cards to test from Manfrotto & Lexar
04:00 Testing ProGrade’s Cobalt card (bottomless)
07:30 Testing ProGrade’s original Gold card (41 frames)
10:34 Testing Lexar’s Professional card (85 frames)
11:32 Testing Manfrotto’s Professional card (bottomless)
14:48 How much does this speed matter for older cameras (Z7ii)
17:00 Faster cards future proof you
17:41 Summary of the card performance test
20:40 Testing CF-Express B card readers (cables matter)
21:24 Testing Lexar’s new reader (my favorite)
24:30 Testing ProGrade’s reader
27:10 Testing Manfrotto’s rugged, small reader
29:28 Summary of reader test (Lexar for desk/Manfrotto for travel)
2023 Workshops & signup: www.hudsonhenry.com/workshops
ProGrade’s ultra-fast Cobalt card: bhpho.to/3ENev3j
Manfotto’s ultra-fast Professional card: amzn.to/3rTeTYV
Lexar’s fast Professional card: bhpho.to/3LmPeiW
--add their awesome reader for $20: bhpho.to/3xSb5L1
ProGrade’s affordable slower Gold card: bhpho.to/38qEVvq
Lexar’s ultra-fast and smooth reader: bhpho.to/3Mzd2Ao
Manfrotto’s rugged reader: bit.ly/3vIkdiU
Delkin’s similar rugged reader: bhpho.to/3KiNypo
B&H Nikon Z9: bhpho.to/2XQjXBh
My Custom Tripods: www.hudsonhenry.com/tripods
Kase Filters: www.hudsonhenry.com/kase
Frequently updated links to all the gear I use: bit.ly/HudsonsLinks
Using my links helps support this video series. Thank you!
I invite all of you to join Rick, Woody, David, Darren and me for our free live Office Hours Tuesday May 5th at 10AM Pacific. We’re going to look through a gallery of your images and take questions. Please submit a single image and/or your questions when you sign up!
Office Hour signup site: bit.ly/2UgDaX4
Thanks to everyone for the great questions you are sending in. Keep them coming either in the comments below or by emailing me directly. I hope to see you in the next Office Hours session on May 10th.
Stay safe and healthy. - Zábava
Thanks, Hudson. Always helpful to know the true stats on these things.
Nice to know what the best of the best is. Thx for testing.
I appreciate you doing this - bookmarked for future reference. TY Hudson - best, Ched
Well you did it again You helped me decide what B type card I'm getting and the reader THANKS!!!!!
Great info, as usual. Thanks for sharing...
Very well done. Cards and readers can be confusing; you cleared it up in this video
always brilliant video yet information and advice
Such quality content!
That's a great call out on the USB-C cables. It's a great connection, but it can be confusing. I use a label maker to identify each one of mine.
Nice review
Hey Hudson, thanks for this great video. Important to know about the qualtity of different cards. When my Z9 arrives I will decide between Delkin Black 512GB and the Prograde Cobalt 650GB. Makes no sense for me to go below with focus on Wildlife and high framerates. Keep it up and thanks again for your great work!
Yep. No complaints with the cobalt. That's my main card.
Hi Hudson, thanks for the detailed Video. I am running into the same issues as @Craig Dory commented below. I should have all my settings exactly as you did in your "action" shooting bank but still can't get beyond 80 frames of buffer with my cobalt 650 card. any ideas what could ruin my buffer depth? Thanks for your work, I just recently found you here because of your great z9 vids.
I find that how much contrast you have in the scene can affect the buffer depth. There's more data and processing when the info is spread across the histogram. try the test shooting at a more evenly lit scene like I had in my studio and see if that is still the case. I retested it in that lighting and got over 800 frames without buffering, then I shot into the dark part of the studio with a light in the corner and got 90... It's going to vary a bit in different conditions. I tried to keep it a good control test by pointing it at my evenly lit desk while running it.
It appears with the Delkin Black the sustained write speed varies depending on the card size. I have both 128GB and 512GB Blacks for Slot 1 (for Stills) and 650GB Prograde Cobalt (Slot 2 for Vids and overflow). I filled a 128GB on a shoot and the camera stopped - I had to pull the battery to restart the camera.
I found the ProGrade Gold very slow, as was any XQD.
Yep, the first gen gold is my slowest and the cobalt 650 is the fastest.
Hey Hudson, the Prograde Cobalt 325Gb (x2) does hit a buffer limit on Lossless compression when Slot 2 is used as Backup. Does the 650GB have a buffer limit when using the same card on the 2nd slot set to backup?
I've never used backup since XQD arrived. Cf express B is built even tougher. Video and overflow is slot 2 for me. It might well hit buffer with that setting or in high contrast scenes. I did my tests pointed at the evenly lit studio desk (as you can see in the video) to stay constant from card to card and be less distracting. Someone else brought up the fact that's less data to store than a high contrast scene. I tested again with even studio lighting but focused on a more varied wall and didn't hit buffer to over 800 frames with the cobalt 650, but into direct backlight I buffered around 100 frames. Conditions are going to cause some variation in results for sure.
Thanks Hudson. Do you intend to look at the new Nikon 660GB card? Do you think there is any advantage using their card; would they somehow optimize it for Nikon cameras?
I'd be really surprised if it is actually Nikon made. We'll have to wait and see how one really performs. I'm personally more than happy with the ProGrade Cobalt.
Just like the Manfrotto is a rebranding of the Delkin (and it's actually cheaper at least in Italy, even tho Manfrotto is a more prestigious brand), the Lexar has a rebranded version from SanDisk which is completely identical in looks (apart from the logo) and performance
Always helpful. Thanks again. Just an aside to show you I'm listening: "Images from this year - i.e. Fall or Spring" - ah, I think you meant Winter or Spring ;-)
Ha, no I'm including our southern hemisphere friends where it's fall.
@@HudsonHenryPhotoGreat save! (Gee, you're good!) ;-)
Thanks, Hudson.
Can you confirm the Z9 is actually shooting at 20 fps during your Cobalt test? It seems like it might actually be closer to 15fps (224 frames in ~15 seconds). Maybe slower frame rate due to camera setting combined with stopped-down aperture?
20fps and a fast shutter. You can see the settings on the screen live. :)
My prograde CF express card reader doesn't seem to read my 8k footage, is this common? --it's a usb cable connected to a thunderbolt dongle, not sure of this matters. any thoughts?
You should transfer it to a drive not read it off the CF-Express card. It should be fine, but that's really not the intended playback medium.
I came back to see your Prograde Cobolt test again, and now it stricks me that the artificial shutter sound doesn't sound like when I shoot my Z8 in 20 FPS mode. Yours sound slower. Then I timed it and did the math - you actually shoot at about 15 FPS. Maybe because you also output to HDMI?
Just looking at options, is the Lexar Gen 2 dual slot reader with an SD slot the same quality as the single slot CFexpress reader you reviewed? The one with the SD slot is actually cheaper, but larger, which is a bit confusing. Maybe it's more plasticky and cheap? Not seeing a lot of real reviews for that one.
Have a Delkin Black CF Express card 128 GB it gives me 385 pics at 20 frames a second on lossless compression. Just over 19 seconds which is all I need.
That's essentially bottomless too. I prefer ProGrade, but the Delkin cards are great too. 19 seconds is longer than I can imagine needing to lay into 20fps. :)
Hudson, here is what I do to save my camera settings permanently. Copy the file on the card to a computer folder named “cameras settings” followed by a folder specifically named to the camera that being used to distinguish each camera back up.
I just keep it on all my CF-express B cards. When I need to format, I load to default, format, and resave before changing anything. Still it would be nice if it saved to internal memory. It's a flaw.
How many shots do you get in a single burst for 20,30,60 and 120fps?
I never shoot beyond the 20fps raw limit on the Z9/8. I'm not a big jpeg fan and 20fps is plenty for me. It's unlimited with with cobalt cards. :)
My Prograde Gold 512 has guaranteed minimum write of 800MBS and will also not bottom out for $149. The 256G is half that speed. So the key is getting the 512G gold.
Every gold card I've tried (all of them) bottoms out fast at 20fps lossless raw on both the z8 & 9. The only cards that don't which I've tested are prograde's cobalt and delkins black. You need to check your raw compression settings. Im sure you're sacrificing quality for file size if your gold cards can keep up.
Just curious if the dell xps laptop you have as a usb 3.2 gen 2/2 port (up to 2000mbs) since that’s the what the lexar reader supports. So you’d probably getting faster speeds using that. Even though thunderbolt is faster, it’s not backwards compatible with that usb standard so the speed of the reader would be capped at under 1000 mbs.
No, not that reader. Look at the date of this video you're commenting on. ;-) As an aside... I don't know of many PCs or people using the double plug 2/2 setups. I think that's tech destined to the rubbish bin as USB4 launches. I actually had words with Lexar and others about promoting the whole 3.2 USB 2x2 speeds for products without explaining the requirements, which I doubt many people will ever possess or use.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto yeah that’s fair. I think it’s backwards compatible with usb 4.0 however which might give it some use in the future maybe
@@avishekghatak2176 I think the fatal flaw is requiring dual ports in a world of shrinking port specs.
The gear videos are great but I would love to see some more workflow and editing videos intermixed along with the stories of how the images are captured.
Post production playlist: czcams.com/play/PLpSIo6KYw1NjL6pBMYVHvHqMFHn5ev7x1.html
Field adventures playlist: czcams.com/play/PLpSIo6KYw1Nj3j64TevqC3aO_TeyZsC8e.html
I'll do more too of course. :-)
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I have watched all of the videos in both of the playlists. Looking forward to more..
Did you test SD cards for the Leica Q3?
The Q3 has yet to have an issue with any SD card I've thrown at it. It's not a high speed action camera and it's video modes aren't demanding enough to demand a top of the line card. I've been enjoying a Lexar Gold card in it, but the silver would be fine too. The important thing is making it big to handle all those huge 60MP files. ;-)
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thanks for the info. I've been using the 128GB SanDisk card. BTW it seems we have an acquaintance in common. Steve Dente. Small world.
Hey Hudson, is one of the readers also be able to read XQD files? Thx!
No, they are a totally different transfer type. I'm afraid XQD will be abandoned completely moving forward. It's many times slower than CF=Express B. On the plus side, I think the cards and readers are rapidly dropping in value.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thx for your feedback. I'm already using a card reader that is able to handle both formats (because I still have some older XQD cards and don't want to drop them yet). Unfortunately, his reader is not as fast as it could be for CFExpress B cards and so I'm still looking for a good alternative. Well, so I need to look further .-)
If I were you, I wouldn't limit the search to one that handles XQD too. If you have one that's working for your legacy cards that's great. I need to give my old reader away now that I've gotten rid of the last of those cards. I believe XQD is a walking dead format (think firewire or betamax) and I doubt you'll find a great, fast new CF Express reader that includes a seperate XQD slot also. I know ProGrade makes one that I tested early on in CF Express B's infancy, but it wasn't as good as this current crop of dedicated CF Express B readers. I think you'll see more brands move to CF Express B for buffer depth and video throughput. It's twice as fast as CF Express A's max speed, which is twice as fast as XQD's max speed. I'll be surprised if CF Express B does not dominate for the foreseeable future. .
@@elementalSHOOTS I don't know if the issue is still relevant for you but I use a SONY MRW-G1 CFExpress Type B/XQD card reader (which explicitly supports XQD cards - it is even printed on it) and it works fine with my old XQD cards and my new CFExpress card (Lexar Gold).
On my Macbook Pro M1 the speed is roughly 600 MB/s. I don't know if that is faster than the one you use but for me this is an acceptable speed. I will ditch my old Sony MRW-E90 XQD/SD card reader because I have an SD card reader in my MBP.
Just out of interest, how fast is the transfer direct from the camera USB connection? I prefer to download my images in this way to avoid taking the cards in and out, saving wear, and charging the camera at the same time.
Great question! sadly about 250mb/s... :(
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I've had to wait for my camera to return from repair,and now I'm confused. I was only seeing around 80, but (a bit of a fiddle to measure on a Mac which has a thunderbolt/USBc port) I see it says MB/s. Are we seeing Bytes or bits? On a Windows USB 3 I only see 25MB/s.
Why delete instead of format to start test, just curious?
Would the results be different with only one card in the camera?
As far as a recommendation on the cards, not that it matters but I would spend no more on the card than is necessary to get top speed on your current camera. It is hard and perhaps even a gamble to try and future proof. In my 30+ years of working with tech gear has I have learned the hard way that storage improves as fast as the devices using it. Can I show you the 100s writeable DVDs I bought for backup that never got used and now I do not even have a way to mount them?
With cameras if you typically keep more than one body I would buy what is best suited for the device as you will have it for a longer period of time, then do the same on the next new device. If you are a one body at a time photographer, it may make more sense to buy the faster storage as you will still be happy with it in the next camera IF/WHEN THERE IS ONE.
Good video Hudson - one last thought - the heat issue is real, good to know the LEXAR stayed cool at those speeds - just ordered one from your links!
I do that to avoid wiping out all my saved settings. If I'm going to format, I'm careful to load my saved settings from the card, format, then save my settings back to it before I change any of them.
I think CF-Express B is going to be the standard for a while. You've seen Canon move to it and I think Sony will eventually too. Heck they already do with their pro video cameras. It's the only thing with headroom and it's backwards compatible to everything that took XQD. The fact that a current fast CF-Express B can handle 8k raw video is insane and they haven't hit its theoretical limit yet. I hear Delkin is working on an even faster sustained write speed version now. The dual PCI channel interface should last quite some time.
I like my Angelbird cards, but OMG, their firmware updating software was horrid on my 14” M1 Max MacBook Pro with their latest version of card reader. It was a nightmare installing it with the macOS Monterey security features, and it caused many other Thunderbolt drives to spontaneously disconnect, etc. along with a kernel panic or two. The cards do work well in the Z9 for both bursts and N-RAW video, and although it’s expensive, they offer a 1TB card which keeps you from switching out cards frequently when shooting 8K raw or oversampled 4K raw. However, I wouldn’t recommend Angelbird due to their firmware updating process being a proprietary dumpster fire…
I hear you. They're big, affordable and may work for a person. A good friend of mine who you met in the Tetons workshop had one lock up his brand new Dell XPS-15, i9 with 64GB of RAM. It took a hard reboot every time he tried to put it in a connected reader. Rick got his MBPro to read that card, but only with a lot of effort and weird glitches. The one I had stopped allowing me to import directly into Lightroom. I found out by sheer accident I could copy the files and past them into a local folder to import from. I couldn't even drag and drop them in Windows Explorer or Mac's finder. The company's reply to a warranty claim was "please buy our proprietary reader in order to do the firmware update on our card. No other reader will work" That to me did not inspire confidence. I'm keeping mine as an absolute last ditch emergency card. I just don't trust it.
Are you sure that you are shooting in Lossless? I haven't seen any other tests of memory cards that can shoot "forever" in 20fps.
Never shoot in anything but lossless. If I could shoot uncompressed I would.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto I was just thta Matt Granger only got in the 80's in his extensive testing.
I don't know him, but I can tell you that in test after test I can't bottom out with that combo. You can watch it in this video.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Okay. But you most know his youtube channel? The Nikon guy from Australia.
Heard the name before, can't put a face to it. Most of the CZcams I "watch" involves kite hydrofoiling technique or advanced video capture and processing. I can tell you my results are fantastic with the cobalt cards. No bottom to be found lossless.
Manfrotto does not have a chip fabrication factory. Who is making their cards?
My guess is Delkin. Way fast and identical card reader in different color.
can i have your laptop info pls ?
It's all in this video right here: czcams.com/video/4VjoTQG31O0/video.html