Gaming's Never-Ending Frame Rate Debate
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
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Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door embargos are finally in effect, but the game's reported to be locked at 30 frames per second, which is causing a lot of fans to raise eyebrows. I talk about that and the fact this conversation's technically been around for a lot longer...
Timestamps:
0:00 A Frame Rate Debate?
1:44 How Much Does 30fps Affect TTYD?
12:51 The Scope's Always Been Large
Music:
Mario Toy Company C - Mario VS. Donkey Kong HD
All Aboard - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Peaceful Petalburg - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Octo Valley (Area 5) - Splatoon
Twilight Town - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Boggly Woods - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - Hry
I usually don’t mind 30FPS, honestly, especially in stylized games. So long as the game doesn’t chug on a consistent basis, I’m okay.
Cough* Cough* Pokemon Scarlet and Violet Cough*
so far i think ign is the only publication ive seen report fps problems
@@RenardioMFGI mean... This is not gamefreak
Sadly Sly 2 PS Vita version framerate chugs :(
Honestly, it's borderline EXAUSTING to have this debate especially for a game like this that is genuinely improving things gameplay wise.
Would I LOVE 60FPS? Of course I do! But MAAAAAAAAAAN...
What’s been improved gameplay wise? In fact there are timed actions that will be harder on 30fps. The only thing improved is the graphical fidelity. Having said that 30fps isn’t the end of the world but for people like me who have played this game dozens on times the frame rate drop is noticeable but that was obvious from the initial trailer.
@@DistinctionDinoOh cool, so you've played the Remaster/make already? Is there a demo or something?
@@bro4ever771 I don’t need to have played it they basically confirmed it’s almost a one to one remake. There’s almost no GAMEPLAY enhancements just visual ones
@@DistinctionDino good, after the smrpg remake id rather they leave the gameplay alone, id like it to feel similar, 30 fps will make them tweek superguard timings also, so they already know
@@johnmehlman5195 Its not a problem but the original post stated there are a ton of gameplay improvements, there aren't many. I just recently played TTYD upresd in widescreen on my PC and honestly I would've preferred that on the switch if it kept the 60fps. Most of the time playing a game at 30 fps doesn't bother me that much unless its a game Ive played a ton of at higher frames, it hard to go back hopefully the community can get it running on PC at 60fps
It’s important to note that when Persona 5 was finally announced for Switch, everyone joked that the game will only be able to run at 30fps, but what they didn’t know, is that was ALWAYS the game’s frame rate and the game never became 60fps until it went multiplat
This is just an example that a lot of people on the internet just be yapping without knowing wtf they are actually talking about, and they do it confidently too
It’s now no longer about the frame rate debacle, now it’s how NoA censored the catcalling scene on Goombella that ticked people off.
Its a Mario game for kids who seriously gives af?
@@SUPERVEGETTO92 Like one minor interaction that doesn't even fit into a Mario game gets changed to make more sense and it's apparently the end of the world
Grown men crying on the internet for sure
Nerds with way too much time on their hands@@SUPERVEGETTO92
@@ItsLeaveeTHANK YOU, for fucks sake someone finally said it
I don’t mind that the remake is at 30FPS, i would have love it to be at 60FPS but i understand why the developers did that since they want it to stay stable
I rather have a framerate that makes a game run smoothly as it possibly can, rather than 60 frames having to be the norm for every single game that exists and or comes out later down the road.
I rather have hardware that can handle games at a stable 60FPS, rather than underpowered hardware like Switch becoming the norm, but we can't always get what we want lol
@@xxProjectJxx I would rather people don't focus on the graphics of a game, which leads to people complaining about "underpowered" hardware. the switch can run things just fine, just not to HIGH graphical fidelity. we need good art direction, not good graphics. Every time i see a game where the MAIN selling point is the graphics i die a little inside.
@@kittenfan7664 the whole “better graphics” thing isn’t going to be sustainable for much longer anyway. We are already at the point of 4K ray-tracing hyper realistic graphics and i don’t think we could do much better even if we wanted to. We are approaching diminishing returns when it comes to graphic capabilities. Another console generation and we will be at a point where graphics simply cannot get much better without the hardware getting ridiculously expensive. If consoles like Xbox and PlayStation want to survive another generation they need to focus on more than just hardware and the number of flops they have. One thing Nintendo has always been good at is taking risks. There consoles are not the most powerful but they are unique and innovative in some new aspect. And I believe that sooner or later Microsoft and Sony will have to follow Nintendo’s example and start innovating or they will stagnate. If nobody can tell the difference between 4K ray-tracing ultra realistic graphics and 8k ray-tracing ultra realistic graphic, then why would they buy the new hardware? The decades long race for better graphics is coming to an end very soon and companies better get ready for it.
@@kittenfan7664 Like it or not, video games are a visual medium. Visuals are important.
IMO, the Switch runs plenty of smaller games fine, but it's clearly not up to par. Even games developed specifically for it like Shin Megami Tensei V, Pokemon Legends Arceus and Xenoblade 3 all had performance issues so noticeable that, IMO, they detracted from the game experience. The Switch isn't even able to run any 3rd party title with any sort of demanding performance requirement and hasn't been able to for years. That isn't "running things fine" to me.
I'm not saying everything needs to be a graphical powerhouse, but hardware should be expected to be at roughly the modern standard.
@@xxProjectJxx don't bring pokemon into it. pokemon games are so bad the would chug on the PS6. the switch is getting old, but as long as games don't focus on grapics, they can run fine on the switch. demanding preformance is becuase games are focusing on reachng that 4khdultragodry graphics. everyone treats the switch like a home console. it's a portable one. visuals are important. but we don't need HYPERGODRAY graphics. Tears of the kingdom runs just fine, it would chug if we tried to make it HYPERGODRAY. Hyper graphics games take WAY more money and WAY more time to make, so they cut corners with gameplay.
I'd prefer a higher framerate, but as long as it's stable, I don't think I'll mind the framerate. However I do have a concern and that is the timing for the action commands, as in Origami King the frame window to do the excellent attack for hammers was extremely small (to the point the Refolded mod made it 3 times bigger) so it's something that worries me. They'll either make it too hard or too easy to get because 30fps prevents people from properly reacting, and because the guard has been changed from how it was in 64/TTYD to how it is in SS/CS/OK.
This isn't my major concern with the remake though. For me it's the changes to the script, as some are just mindless censorship of the original.
IIRC its been confirmed to be 33% easier since no way to make it the same and no matter what it won't feel as good as the GCN version since the GCN ran at 60 fps.
“For me it's the changes to the script, as some are just mindless censorship of the original.”
There was literally only two fucking lines that were censored. Relax.
@@Rediscool9 So far, and even then that's my concern, not yours. If it doesn't bother you, that's fine. It bothers me.
@@dave9515 Yeah, that's a huge shame and what could break the remake for me as the definitive version of the game to always return to. If it feels wrong, I guess I'll stick to the original on Dolphin.
At the end of the day, people have their subjective thoughts and concerns on a product that they will want to consume. Having a higher and consistent frame rate is the way to go. For me as long as the frame rate is consistent and doesn't ruin my gameplay experience, then it's fine.
Holy moly I wrote a whole essay!
I think the only reason people are complaining about a switch game running at 30FPS in the year 2024 is because it’s a remake of a 20 year old game that ran at 60. I’ve heard people say something like, “If games like Super Mario Odyssey can run at 60FPS, why can’t TTYD, a remake of a 20 year old game that ran at that frame rate?”, trying to argue that the switch is totally capable of doing such a thing. Now I’m no expert on making games, but I’m pretty sure that there’s more things affecting a game’s performance than just how good it looks graphically. Also, Mario Odyssey and Paper Mario are two very different types of games, and they have very different art styles. Again I’m no game maker expert so I don’t know how these differences in art style, game mechanics and behind the scenes processes affect performance, but it’s something to think about right?
Going back to the point in my first statement… has anyone ever complained about the frame rate in Origami King, like ever. People have said many things about that game, but as far as I can tell, it’s frame rate has never been discussed by either fans or detractors. Historically speaking, 30 FPS in a Paper Mario game has never been an issue for anyone as far as I can tell.
Now, to be fair to the current TTYD remake detractors, I think some people are legitimately worried about how it’ll feel to go from playing a 60FPS game to a 30FPS version of the same game. How will it affect the timing of action commands? See, the thing about Origami King is that even though it is an installment in the Paper Mario series, it’s also an entirely new game so there’s nothing to compare it to directly in those regards. But when TTYD fans play the remake, they’ll be traversing the same map, facing the same enemies, using the same attacks, and defending against the same enemy attacks.The concern now comes from how will it feel in this remake to perform the same actions in the remake vs the original? I mean, it’s gonna mess with your muscle memory for sure and you’ll have to remaster some of those tougher more advanced moves. But I think the real concern is even after you get used to everything, will the lower frame rate still make the gameplay feel inferior to the original? Though it’s worth noting that since this is in fact a remake (not a port), it’s gonna feel different to some extent even if the FPS matches the OG. But I guess the FPS is a major factor in the overall feel too.
Overall, I think this is a valid concern. The only way to know for sure is to try the game yourself.
However, I’ve also seen people that are like, “A remake of a 20 year old game that ran at 60FPS now running at 30FPS? UnACCEPTABLE? Nintendo lazy!”, and go off of that principle alone without taking into account how much it’ll actually affect the game, how many improvements there are, or without taking into consideration the hardware it’s running on. The switch is a very weak console for today’s standards, and since it’s a portable, battery life is something they need to take into account as well.
Okay I’m gonna drop my attempts at having an aura of objectivity for a second in order to say this: Anyone who thinks this remake is “lazy”… Bruh. You gotta be joking, THIS remake. just because of a lower frame rate? Ur silly. Silly goose.
Ok with that out of my system, I feel like when it comes to people with that mentality, their motivations for not supporting the TTYD remake are less about the individual game, and more of a statement about not supporting lazy cash-grab ports/remakes in general. Companies (including Nintendo) have been getting away with charging AAA price for these things for years, so now when these people see just one lacking aspect of a re-release be revealed, they’re immediately like “Nope. Not supporting this BS. Not falling for it. You can do better.”
Preach.
Genuinely would've bought it if it was 60fps. It's my favourite game and the nostalgia on it, isn't comparable. 30 fps is a deal breaker. It's clearly a lazy port from the origami king game engine and I won't financially support neglectful decisions. I will emulate it with a 60 fps mod however
BRO IS SO FIRE PREACH 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
@@klipleychudguy6178 Mate I’m sorry but there is no way you called the TTYD remake a “lazy port” while also saying it’s made in the origami king engine. You saying it was made in a different engine is literally what a remake does. So yeah, this is a remake. And also 30 fps is by no means a deal breaker and I think you’re just being petty by saying that when we’ve seen the graphical improvements in the remake compared to the orignal and the QoL improvements and the cutting down of the backtracking, etc.
@@Matt-eh2dy back tracking is a fun part of the game and I know it’s a different engine to the original. You clearly didn’t read what I said. I said it was lazy to use the origami kings engine. That’s the main reason it’s locked to 30fps
They also lock 30fps for battery life on the Switch
I honestly don't really care about framerate, as long as it's stable I'm fine with it, unless if it starts to drop like crazy (similar to how emulators run games on a low end device, making the game and audio choppy as heck, then I have a problem). I honestly don't even notice any recognizable Switch game being not 60 FPS, so I don't really understand why there's some people who complain about the frame rate.
Almost nothing on PS5 runs at 60 either without drastically cutting down visuals etc.
This will likely run 60fps on the next console, but I’d imagine the base switch can’t run this at 60 unless they cut down on a heap of visual elements
Ps5 has plenty of 60 fps games wtf u on?
Ps5 has multiple 60fps games? WHAT?!? 😂😂😂
The Switch would have no problem running a straight port of the original release at 60, but the remake route is more interesting. It's a worthy sacrifice in my opinion. I'll take a framerate cut if the models, environments and lighting are more advanced.
I’d argue that the add-ons (the new lighting system, papery aesthetic, etc.) was worth it.
Plus, this is done in the TOK engine, I believe, if this was a remaster, it would be easy 60 FPS, but then people would call TTYD Switch lazy for not adding much if it were just a 60 FPS port.
I prefer the 30 FPS remake direction, especially since the Switch wouldn’t be able to handle a consistent 60 FPS, it’s hard, especially in the Modern Paper Mario engine, especially when the Switch hardware is VERY outdated.
I’m assuming they are gonna have 60 FPS TTYD on Switch 2 to account for the better hardware, I hope. But blame the Switch for 30 FPS.
Blame the hardware than can run DOOM remake at 60fps and uncapped 40FPS TOK.... nope Remake is just a lazy port.
@@snintendog TOK is 30 FPS too
I agree with a lot of your points.
I honestly am just happy the game is running at 1080p at least, I guess framerate doesn't bother me as much as others.
I'm always playing a game for the gameplay (and story if it's there). Performance is important to me, don't get me wrong, but just like you said, most people don't really care if it's fun. A large majority of the games I love are either 30 or 60 fps, and their performance never heavily affected my enjoyment. In some cases, I believe a game's visuals would benefit more from being 30fps under the right circumstances.
It seems people are seeking out reasons to hate on the TTYD remake for no purpose. "It's not a remake, its a remaster and a bad one", "How dare they make this game 30 FPS", "They removed the dead chalk toad, I hate you Nintendo", "If Vivian isn't Trans, I will sell my Switch" etc SHUT THE HELL UP, these excuses and misconceptions are plain stupid, I'm tired of this, I will buy this game and love it and thats what matters and I hope real fans of Mario Rpgs and Nintendo as a whole don't be influenced by these stupid people on internet.
“They removed the dead chalk toad.” Umm, isn’t that gone in the US version of the original too? If so, this means that people who haven’t played the game are complaining based on misunderstandings, or people who have played it don’t actually care about the change and have some ulterior motive for complaining.
Or maybe they’re upset because they’re not reversing the censorship from the original therefore not worth 60 literally unplayable or something.
I do wonder if they’re censor it in the Japanese version of remake. Then I could see Japanese players having a reason to be upset.
@@joshbuoy8661 in this day and age if a game is censored in english, itll be censored in japan aswell, cuz thisll more than likely be the global version
Sometimes I don't mind 30fps on Games like Kirby but I prefer 60fps.
Perfectly reasonable
Going from 60 to 30 on a Kirby is unsettling. I saw 60fps on Forgotten Land it’s so fluidly nice looking.
So i recently played luigis mansion dark moon on my emulator and it looked beautiful at 60fps, i then played Jojo bizarre adventure eyes of heaven on an emulator and ran at a smooth 30fps and it also looked great, but then i played TOTK and the game felt stuttery and inconsistent.
I think if the game runs good with no stutters, 30-60 is good, but if your game has stutters or moves too quickly 60-120 works, anything afterwards is overkill.
FINALLY AN ACTUAL VIDEO EXPLAIN THE SITUATION!!!! This debate is extremely stupid and predictable, The worst part is I'm seeing a bunch of people harass and make fun of anyone for being excited for Paper Mario thousand your door, No one deserves to be harassed or insulted for getting excited for the game and proves my point about the Nintendo negativity Hate train full with ungrateful people that always makeup excuses while pirating switch games and stealing them without buying the official copies.
The whole point of the TTYD Remake is the judgement on whether classic-style Paper Mario can return.
Nasty Nintendo pirates can pirate the game all they want if they’re asking for a fourth modern-style entry.
Either way, the FPS doesn’t matter in this situation, period.
@@ptanker9236 Funny thing is that TOK also runs at 30 FPS, so they wouldnt win anything on the long run.
I've had someone tell me that I'm just a fanboy who doesn't have standards over this crap. It's pathetic.
Goes both ways. Being made fun of for having concerns for the game. But yeah TTYD here we go!🤩
@@coltonk.3086 Same here
In my opinion the only time I care about frame rate is when a game requires fast reaction times if it's a slow game that requires you more to think than the frame rate really don't matter as long as the frame rate is consistent
I don't know why people are trying to kill the hype for TTYD remake over 30 FPS and line changes, people should be happy they are doing anything with TTYD at all after 17 years of experimenting.
This is the one time people can tell them "Make more games like this please" and they're trying to ruinn it, if anything the game running at 30 frames straight up confirms that this isn't an HD remaster. (I don't know why people think it is)
I swear this is gonna get worse when they show off Vivian.
As lomg as vivian is treated like in the original gamecube english localization there's nothing to complain about
@@arzfan29 People will complain no matter what they do. If they have her be a girl it's censorship, if they make her trans (like in the japanese version) they'll say it's woke when Birdo's been around for over 30 years.
Exactly, I won't change the dialogue of Beldam at all, call Vivian ugly and thats it, it would be for the better. Remember Birdo? She is in the same boat as Vivian and no one advocate for her to be official canonized as trans, so Vivian shouldn't be as well.
What lines
@@jeremyknight9980Vivian is a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. If they go the original route, drill this fact into everyone who calls it out.
The replies and quotes on your tweet about the FPS debacle perfectly epitomize the current state of Twitter. You made a very good point but have to shorten it out "thanks" to the character limit, everyone jumps on you. It feels like you're required to *PAY THIER SUBSCRIPTION WITH MONEY* just to make it agreeable. A video is definitely a safer option, and I'm glad someone finally covered this pointless debate.
Only thing that comes to framerate that I care about is consistency. If the framerate is stable, I could not care less how fast or slow it is, as long as it fits the game. Now of course a game with an unstable framerate is usually not finished (or sometimes just not good), and then some areas in games can just be laggy, but that's the only time where it'll bother me, and if it's not too prevalent, it wouldn't even really knock a point off an out of 10 scale for me.
If it can run at 30 or more and stay at that frame rate it’s good
I miss the days when we judged games based off how fun they were.
Same bro, can't people just have fun at something without analyzing such small things that will barely have any to no difference at all?
@@Polengue No because people want to get angry at something. They want to be negative.
@@Rediscool9 something can be fun and can still he critiqued
@@JoelGarcia-lu3tw Except this isn’t just mere “critique”, everyone who’s mad about the framerate are already automatically labeling the remake as “awful” and as something you “shouldn’t buy”.
Tbf, it is very jarring for many people, including myself, to go from 60+ fps to 30 fps. Like, I've been playing FF16 lately, and, while its fun, its definitely been an adjustment.
Who cares about framerates? As long as it's faster than a slide show, does it really matter?
Don't say that on Twitter, you boutta get jumped by spec simps, not even console superfans.
@@SuperMarioT This is why we hate Twitter.
Uhhh faster frame rate in my opinion makes any gameplay better…..
That 's not a good argument because faster framerate will always be better dude.
A better way to phrase your statement would be '' I much prefer a staple 30 fps over an unstaple 60 fps''
@@Matt-eh2dy Twitter and CZcams comments have something in common.
They should put dislike display.
If it didn’t matter this video wouldn’t be made and have people going back and forth about it for days now with many threads and videos.
It’s controversy is a give away amongst the other changes that leave people indifferent. My thing is damage controlling and pretending the flaws don’t exist are not helping. Neither is taking jabs and judgments of a person for their opinion. Everyone is here to express their excitement and concerns at the same time.
Nonetheless, I’m super excited for this game! Time feels slower now that we’re getting closer to the release
😫❤️
I think it really depends on the game what framerate is better. And I think RPGs are usually the type that prefers having 30 fps in exchange for better visuals. Games like Smash Bros on the other hand want a good framerate.
What gets under my skin is not people expressing their disappointed about the framerate being cut in half. That actually makes sense. What I hate to see is people making ridiculous assumptions about how or why this happened. They'll just automatically assume that it's because Nintendo was lazy and just not willing to put in the work, despite the fact that everything else in this remake suggests otherwise.
THe og game EMULATED on switch runs 60 fps. Emulation is 3x more demanding than a straight port.
This game looks even better to me than the original with all the improvements. Origami King ran 30 fps too and ran fine. It won't be a problem for the action commands. I don't mind it at all. I can't wait to play this gem on switch and I'm rlly growing impatient. 22 days left.
My personal feelings are that 60 should be the standard but as long as the game has a consistently stable frame rate 30's fine by me. I do get why people wouldn't be happy though. At the end of the day, it's their money. If they have a reason for not wanting to buy, I'm not gonna call them wrong no matter what the reason is even if I disagree.
Now that you and Arlo have put out videos on this topic, I've noticed some things about the people mad at TTYD not being 60fps:
1) *They're using it as another excuse to be mad at nintendo as a whole*
Alot of comments that I've had/seen devolve into being mad at nintendo in general. And look, you can not like the company, I literally don't care and you have the right to...but that doesn't mean that this specific example you're giving completely justifies it and isn't a nitpick.
2) *they are straight up ignoring everything else about the game*
I can't tell you how many comments I've seen that are acting like because of THIS, the whole of TTYD remake is bad. Like...they (nintendo) have shown that this remake is literally doing EVERYTHING else right (for Christ sake they're even fixing the fast travel/back tracking), and people are acting like this framerate issue makes it as a whole, trash. They're also ignoring the new purple Toad, which kills me because that Toad PROVES the stupidity of this issue. For anyone not aware, that new purple toad we've seen in trailers is actually there...to teach you the timings of moves. Yes, the ONE THING everyone is complaining about with the framerate? Nintendo literally added an NPC to help mitigate the issue. They knew cutting it to 30 would change things...and added things to the game to help the player with it. The cut to 30fps was not a decision they made on a whim, the remake is designed AROUND IT. Yet that's all being ignored...
Any chance you'll do a video where you talk about how the remake changed that scene with the trio of enemy Goombas hitting on Goombella? Some people aren't exactly happy with that.
Oh well, a small change like that doesnt change anything about the game, infact i believe its funier than the old dialogue
@@johnmehlman5195 Viviian is female. "Oh well a small change like that wont effect anything.Infact its better."
@@snintendog that change was from the og english version my guy, you know, the one these guys hold as the "uncensored" version, where as thats far from the truth
@@johnmehlman5195 you either accept all the changes or none of them my dumbass
@@snintendog did i say i didnt accept it? No, i didnt
30fps has always been a compromise. It's playable in the same way that you can technically walk with crutches. Ideally we should just have configurable performance options like PC has had forever.
The amount of attention the internet has given to this game would make you think it’s like… a 10 million + seller or something. Must be a lot of people just shittalking it for the memes. With no intent on buying it anyways.
Someone I live with recently bought a PSV. I made miss 60fps. The higher level of detail by contrast I didn't care about at all.
9:07 this was confirmed by dataminers, who found out it's a proper remake in The Origami King Engine.
So it being 30 fps but having such artstyle and lighting conditions makes fully sense.
0:00-1:45 That music’s from the Mario Vs. Donkey Kong remake, right? In the Mario’s Toy Company world, iirc?
Anyway, this is a pretty solid argument on this matter. A game doesn’t need the best fps to be worth the purchase, it just needs a good one. A few haters can’t stop the rest of us from liking/buying a game.
Yes, Mario Toy Company C
@@SuperMarioTFunky track for a commentary 😎🔥
This whole debate literally makes no sense in the first place. These people keep bringing up the argument that “The remake should be 60fps because it literally has timed action commande for superguard!!!” Like??? It’s almost as if this game is literally a remake and they most likely adjusted the frames required for these successful action commands and changed them to be on equal timing with the original for the 30fps?
*commands
Not “commande” Minor spelling mistake.
Not to mention, that argument doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things
It's a frame rate change. Time itself doesn't change. If something took 20 frames in the original, that 20/60 or 2/6 or 1/3 of a second. That timing is not going to magically change when it gets adjusted to 10 frames out of 30, it will still be 1/3 of a second.
Muscle memory persists regardless
@@AniMariBro The point was some timings don't divide, such as 3 frames for the super guard can't become 1.5 frames.
However, I've heard someone say that there is 60fps input recording and more have said they've changed the windows manually anyway, so the input thing isn't really relevant to the overall 30fps thing.
@@wumpyjumps
In the cases of odd number frames, the difference is a single 60th of a second. Super guard will either be "easier" or "harder" when adjusted, but the difference is so slight, the game itself has a badge to adjust that timing window already.
I seriously doubt any normal person playing the game will feel a difference of a single frame unless they quite literally have frame perfect accuracy and hit the timing on _specifically_ the first possible frame and the timing is adjusted to be 2/60 instead.
Good reason to backup my copy and play on pc.
That too, at least you're thinking of buying it anyways for that. (Granted coping roms are easy too)
I'd happily sacrifice some of the framerate if the game runs completely smoothly at all times rarher than high framerate with constant stuttering.
Complain all you want, people. I'm definitely buying this to show Nintendo that THIS is the style I want Paper Mario to go for in the future. While others whine about frames and minor text changes, I'm going to re-experience a personal favourite from my youth.
love it when youtube notifies quick. Idk something about just-
Nope, CZcams notifies me like 30 seconds after a video upload.
I don’t see the problem with paper Mario TTYD being 30 frames on switch. I think it still looks good.
Oh boy, this topic. I actually wanted to take a month off from Twitter because of the negativity surrounding this argument. If anything, the 30fps really isn't an issue for me at all, but at the same time, I do easily understand that most people are quite disappointed and it is a fair criticism to address regarding that it's an improved remake in contrast of the GameCube game. But I do also feel that there's a side of people that are being quite immature and nitpicky about it. And even though I wished to see the remake run on 60fps, it really isn't a aspect I was prioritizing for, all that matters to me now is the remake's improved and newly added features that will make up the whole experience itself for me and I'm truly grateful and happy about it.
Also, I personally think the 30fps for the remake makes the animations look and feel a lot smoother. Not to mention, I'm glad you mentioned that Switch 2 60fps rumor, I actually thought the same thing when I was posting my thoughts about this topic on Twitter.
Anyway, I think I'm done expressing my feelings. Just felt obliged to acknowledge this topic. Also not to mention I usually don't write comments on CZcams.
My stance is "it's better locked at a lower framerate than constantly fluctuating." As much as it doesn't effect me too much, stuff like the Zeldas changing from (at lowest) 21 to 30 is noticeable and doesn't look good.
No it's not 60 like the OG, but if it's locked at 30, I think that's fine.
Even if the TTYD Remake was at 60 FPS, the Switch would just do terribly and it wouldn’t be consistent.
@@ptanker9236 Right, that's more or less what I'm saying.
@@chibi2239 idk about botw, but totk runs at a staple 30 fps
@danzoelizio2288 yeah, for the most part. It comes down to when you use ultra hand, especially in a populated area.
Skyward sword HD is a solid 60fps while teh wii version was 30 and it makes the combat significantly more responsive and fun. SSHD also has other QOL changes with one stupid QOL change locked behind amiibo but outside the amiibo debacle its a significant upgrade compared to wii. Also TOTK and BOTW are probably pushing the switch to its limits form their physics engines alone. Its a miracle they even got it running as is and even more amazing TOTK is mostly a solid 30 with all the additional landmarks and ultrahand stuff.
I don’t care about FPS as long as the game runs well. Also do we really need 60 FPS for RPG games I mean look at P5R it runs 30 on switch while it runs 60 on PS3, PS4 and Xbox series and I don’t think people made a big deal of it. If it’s like an action hack and slash then maybe yes I would say 60 needs to be because of the input delays. This is my opinion
30 fps in a Mario paper game… they could focus on optimization cause the timing is needed
I've been playing Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth at 30fps and that game plays perfectly fine, despite having a 60fps option (said option makes the game look worse fyi). Imo, 30fps is bad when the frame pacing is awful, when it isn't awful I can work with it. In regards to TTYD, I would understand the complaints if it wasn’t a full remake but it is (anyone who tries to argue this point needs to look up comparisons to the old game) and this is a change that they made for an optimal gaming experience. So I don't mind.
They should just add a "Graphics" Mode for better graphics but 30FPS and a "Performance" Mode for worse graphics but 60FPS like Sony does for FF7R for example.
But I just want to play Nintendos games on PC.
Then they beat emulators and piracy. (For a major part)
On Steam plz. ;)
It’s okay, those people passing this remake up because of the frame rate will just forfeit their right to complain if it tanks and we go back to the modern PM formula as a result.
we dont care anymore we know nintendo is infested since FATES Japan should be the only market to care about.
While I am disappointed that Its only 30 fps, Its not the end of the world for this type of game imo. As long as Its stable and the frame pacing is good.
I’d much rather play a game at 60fps or more when possible. However, when it comes to games on Switch or Steam Deck, as long as it runs at a stable frame rate, I’m fine with 30fps. It’s super disappointing TTYD isn’t at 60fps like the original, but it’s not a deal-breaker for this remake.
Always should be both. But it is embarrassing to be a gamer when some lie about 30FPS being unplayable and once you play a bit of 60FPS you can't go back to 30FPS.
It’s because of the Switch’s shitty hardware.
@@ptanker9236 And yet the Switch’s hardware is still more powerful than the PS3 and Xbox 360, that’s crazy.
Meanwhile if a game runs its best on just 30 FPS, I respect it
Games at 60 FPS tend to cut corners at times because it’s more expensive to animate at that framerate, not to mention how the graphics and the gameplay loop require a lot from the console. If the game framerate suddenly drops from 60 FPS, it’s a struggle.
@@Matt-eh2dy its still weaker than the xbox one and ps4, which is the generation that the switch is from
@@johnmehlman5195 yet the Ps3 and Xbox 360 are FINE. there's a reason that the Xbox X and PS5 have so few exclusives. even with the graphics arms race, the old consoles have enough power. the switch does too. just not the HIGH bar that people are praying for. The switch is a hybrid it's obviously not going to have the Strength of the other consoles of it's time. it's like expecting the DS to do better than the gamecube becuase it's in the same generation.
Rain Code a switch exclusive and amazing game is at 30 fps with some dips here and there. I also played mgs3 on the 3ds at 24 fps. If the game is good I can deal with it, people are just spoiled I think. I know it feels backwards with the original being 60 but the new music and lighting and extra stuff overcome the cons of 30fps. Only time fps has bothered me was pokémon sword and Shield or Violet I think? If people need to play a game with bad fps that WILL affect your experience can play rune factory 5 (on switch) or the new pokémon games. Those are so bad that will actually give you a headache and fortnite but I think switch pushes its limit on fortnite so it's impressive it can even run.
I don't really care about a game's framerate.
My opinion is
Anything above 24 fps is pointless because 24 is the lowest it can go while being not noticeable to the naked eye, if something is moving at 24 fps it appears as seamless motion and honestly if you can tell the difference between 30 and 60fps you spend too much time staring at the computer, and i can say this as someone who spends almost all his free time using a game console or laptop
While I concede, the framerate discussion with Nintendo has always been shaky, largely due to the hardware and Nintendos mission to stay away from the industry norm, but theres times where its baffling is instances like this.
That isnt to say Nintendo is half assing this remake, far from it, but this is just indictive of the larger issue with Nintendo. Their evasive nature with industry norms is both a benefit and a curse.
Benefit, because it lets them publish genuinely creative and fun games that are polished to hell with little to no predatory MTX's, but a curse with limiting framerates. Its a double edged sword.
See, the 60 FPS argument only applies if the gameplay loop requires maximum framerate for it to stay stable
Not only does Paper Mario TTYD not have very exagerrated or realistic graphics, but also the characters don’t do a lot of movement and the gameplay loop doesn’t demand a lot from the console.
While 60 FPS is the standard for all games, you can’t say that 30 FPS is downright unplayable if what you are playing doesn’t demand 100% of the console’s potential.
Yes, sure Paper Mario TTYD on GameCube worked on 60 FPS, but visually and mechanically it can also run on half that and stay stable.
superguarding is confirmed to be 2 frames, so thats 1/3 more
0.05 seconds to 0.067
imo not substantial enough of an increase to really make a difference
But it is compensated for 30 FPS, so while it is not substantial, it’s good enough.
If I can enjoy Crash 4 and Wolfenstein II on my Switch, then what's the problem? I couldn't care less about the art direction, framerate, or visuals. I care about the GAMEPLAY, LEVEL DESIGN, and CONTROLS!
Get a carby and do a side beside of crisp 480p original. The remake looks WORSE than the OGs real look. So many loser defending this remake. Bad visuals, Censorship, HORRIBLE music remixes, unstable 30Fps. the more and more that Comes out about this SHIT REMAKE the more i dont want Nintendo. Christ after the Shit pokemon games and the bad spinoffs and the horrific virtconsole lineup this gen what is there left being a nintendo fan. 4 games in the last 2 years got me to go to the switch 3 of them were horrible stuttering messes and only one was a fun game.
@@snintendog I have no interest in Paper Mario and I couldn't care less about Pokémon.
Let me start with the end so people don't jump to conclusions:
Yes, I am getting this game. Yes, it's still good. It doesn't mean I can't take a step back and view this more objectively.
Maybe it's because I've worked on a mod where I had to work with frame-data, and played games heavily reliant on a good framerate, but I will say this: "FPS is not and has never been about visuals. It's about gameplay". It's a common misconception people have, and honestly, while yes, there are visual benefits to a high framerate, the real reason why people want 60 FPS is because it "feels" better.
Everyone can "feel" framerates. It's just that some people are more adept at putting it into words than others. Have you ever played a patformer, missed a jump, and were absolutely convinced you pressed in time? This could be caused by a lower framerate in many cases.Essentially, a higher (and stable) framerate makes a game feel more responsive. You will miss less inputs, but also, the action on screen will feel like it reacts more readily to your inputs on a consistent and prompt basis.
Yes, Paper Mario is a turn-based RPG. But framerate still matters. There's a timing element to the game. You move in the overworld, in towns, and it even matters for menu interractions. You'll notice that in games like Fire Emblem for example, you are far more likely to choose the wrong actions (provided you play fast) when the framerate is lower.
The fact is, 60FPS, to me at least, should not be considered a plus. It should be the bare minimum. I would sacrifice visuals any day for buttery-smooth controls (Worst case scenario, demanding cutscene can be put at 30 FPS since there is no player input). Games under 60 feel sluggish to me.
It is difficult to do? Yeah, of course. I still prefer it. I'll support the game because I want the series to return to its roots. But I may look into overclocking my Switch x_x. If it wasn't because I absolutely want Paper Mario to return to its RPG roots, I would be torn on whether I'd get it or not.
Im personally juat getting tired of these debates, NOTHING these people bring up is of any substance, "frame rate" and the "censorship" ( a single line change) is getting boring
I’m pretty sure it’s quite a bit more than a single line, unless you’re referring to something that isn’t the underground Goomba encounter. But yea I get your point. People getting their panties in a twist because of dialogue changes of one interaction…
Though I think it stems from a worry that it’s just one example of a bigger problem, like “Oh no! If they changed THIS dialogue from the PROLOGUE, that means they changed other lines too.”
@@joshbuoy8661 In a world where companies and devs want to dicatate how we spend our money and what we are allowe dto enjoy and consume its concerning how much stuff is getting sensored nowadays and sucks even more knowing how many translated games are changed into fanfics when compared to the og script.
@@joshbuoy8661 that fear is unfounded, they wouldve done the same exact thing with mario rpg given the chance but they didnt
@@dave9515 im sorry, what koopa was hostile towards you in the og? Besides the enemy ones that is, cuz i remember them being nice to you in the original
@@johnmehlman5195 I probably remembered wrong but the fatjokes removed, the catfish scene and crump stuff is already a lot. Either way the scripts been changed and nothing can be done. They even removed the chalk in cleanport and the jp version had bloodstains in the og. They sanitized the npc's and places far too much for how TTYD is thematically. there is a literal 500 year old demon sleeping underneath rogueport than could wake up any day.
Honestly if we're just judging a game based on framerate, then I've got some fresh hot takes to comply with that.
-the MCC was the best release Halo's ever had
-Bloodborne is a footnote in its genre that isn't worth playing
-HGSS are dogwater compared to GSC
-The Battlefront classic collection should be game of the decade
BOTW and TOTK 0/10.
60FPS mod on emulation. End of story.
On a PC with actual specs, not the potato we call the Switch.
I already put my preorder down for this remake as I never got to play the original. 60FPS or not, it's not going to effect me trying this game for the first time.
I already played Paper Mario 64, Super Paper Mario and Origami King. PLEASE, stop shoving your love for higher framerates down my throat, I just wanna play this GAME.
Fr these dudes are so annoying.
Lets compare xenobalde 3 to pokemon gen 9. X3 runs more smoothly then tbe cartoony pokemon. I care for optimization not graphics. I shouldnt dry heave when i swim in water in pokemon gen 9
I've been hearing about this debate since last night and I just cant believe people are hating this game already. I wanna talk about this and give my opinion.
To start, If you absolutely hate that this game is at half the frame rate and would definitely prefer the og 60 fps. Then Awesome! You have the right to think that way! I am also on board with preferring 60 fps instead of 30. But going out of your way and ruining other people's fun and excitement for this game just because of that single downside. Then brother, you gotta lay off. From what we have seen, this remake is entirely faithful! With some tweaks of course (Im not gonna get into the catcalling censor). But so far everything looks absolutely better than the original! The textures and assets are completely remade from the ground up and its outstanding! As long as the game's 30fps is consistent then I see no problem. IGN stated that there are some points where it does look iffy and with other ppl they said they had no issues with the frame rate which is odd I'll give it that. But even then, the game isn't even out yet. They're still some time to fix those issues if needed.
People are also complaining that since this game's entire system is based action commands with the frame rate cut in half it's going to completely make them harder. To this argument I say you know what else ran on 30fps and the games whole shtick was with action commands? Origami King. I don't speak for all, But I've seen many people that don't even struggle with the commands even with the frame rate in that game. The battles also have no lag unless you use vellumental attacks (Mainly the earth vellulental attack holy). Guess what? Those attacks don't require action commands AT ALL. Unless your hand and eye coordination is absolutely shit, Then this remake being 30fps is not that big of a deal then what people make it be. Besides, if you really look at the trailers n such, the game looks to run pretty smoothly! Yes it's not out yet but from what we've seen it's pretty consistent.
At the end of the day, Its a video game that alot of us grew up with (Like me!). This Remake looks awesome! It looks like a complete upgrade to its og besides its frame rate. I will definitely be picking this up on release date! It may be our only chance at a proper paper mario game in the future!
And remember, its perfectly fine to not like this game's cut frame rate. Just don't go ruining other people's fun and excitement. Let people have fun. Thats really what it boils down to.
Thats all I really got.
I got a friend that wants to not buy the game anymore because it’s 30fps and he’s going to play it on PC. Im going to try to convince him to at least buy the game for supporting the fact that the remake even exists because this is really something too surreal to not invest in! Plus 🏴☠️
This is the dumbest debate ever, unless the game runs at an unstable choppy 5-10 fps and feels like a slideshow (Deadly Premonition 2) then 30fps really shouldn't bother you and if 30 fps is what's stopping you from buying this game then you really are pathetic...
man i love your videos but the random ecchi at the end is very off putting
I think it says a lot about the scene regarding civil discussion these days when you have to remind people every 5 minutes how this is your own opinion and that people are free to disagree LOL
I feel the argument of comparing the ttyd remake to standalone, new at the time games isn’t a fair comparison. For a new game, it’s a completely fair and valid reason to limit the framerate to 30fps if the system just can’t handle it at 60. However, for a remake or remaster, in my opinion the bare minimum should be matching the original game in terms of framerate. I think this speaks more about their priorities in development, as there’s plenty of tricks to use that can help framerate, such as dynamic resolution or just running at 720p which would still be higher than 480p, amd’s fsr, or improving the graphics in increments to continually optimize the game to still run at 60 just for a few examples. If they actually couldn’t get their new graphics to run at 60, then at least offer a 60fps alternative with the original graphics, especially because I personally think the original looks far better visually than the remake in almost every area, and would actually buy the remake personally if they offered that. There might be a chance though that this was supposed to be a cross platform switch 1 and 2 release, as it keeps the same colored buttons as Mario rpg remake did, which while yes was accurate to the Japanese version, is a little suspicious to see here too, but that’s just speculation. Though if they did have a 60fps version of this on switch 2, it’d be a lot better, but I personally still wouldn’t be happy about the visual art style of the remake. At the end of the day, a remake or remaster should be better in every way than the original, and I won’t lie that some of the gameplay improvements like fast travel are nice, but this remake always disappointed me from the day it was announced personally, and it just hurts to see for me.
Completely fair assessment. I disagree on the remake, I'm the opposite, but 100% fair. I do hope the switch 2 cross-compatible frame & resolution buff rumors are true though.
I don't really care much about FPS in games, unless it's Fortnite because frames grant the competitive edge because of shorter response times. Also, Spider-Man on PS5 is a great game
I kind of really wanna emulate it.
Seeing the Wii U paper marios at 60fps was truly a game changer for me and made the playing experience so much smoother to both the hand and the eye.
Most gamers nowadays have access to better higher end devices, the norm on most PC games isn't even 60fps anymore but something even higher than that (120hz / 240hz), even Phones have adopted those higher refresh rates now
The fps issue is becoming all the more relevant as the masses slowly keep advancing into newer generations of technology
it doesnt help that 60FPS was always the FPS target since the NES simply due to how TVS work 60Hz was the be all end all for EVERYTHING the n64 ps1 20 Fps was always seen as a limitation of 3d Until the DC ps2 and GC came around and showed us it wasnt any more. that and the Adoption of 480p being the typical Default after years of using the hack of 240p of the 480i mode that Bradcasters used to compress video... Hell when the weakest of the big four could run a few games at 720 stable 60 you know this 30 FPS argument is INVALID.
Still has a lot more frames than Pokemon Scarlet and Violet that's for sure.😒
as long as a game is 30fps. im fine. idc about frame rate. and the difference is so small between 30 and 60fps. its well. its only noticible side by side
and our eyes do 60fps or so i heard too so over 60, we cant even perceive it.
60FPS should be the standard but people should stop acting like a game is unplayable just because it's 30FPS.
Eh I just blame it on the Switch and 30fps seems like the best thing for a stable paper Mario game. 30FPS works well if the game isn't too intense, but 60fps is preferred cuz my mind can't handle the input latency of 30fps nowadays tbh.
People keep saying “the GameCube was able to do 60 with no problem!”
The GameCube is essentially a low-res PS2 and the Switch is essentially a high-res PS3.
Nintendo has barely evolved their console strength in a long time, which is why the TTYD Remake would run shit at 60.
@@ptanker9236 well yeah. i have no doubt nintendo will catch up to competition someday tbh cuz honestly ps4-ps5 games are graphical peaks to me. no games need to look better than call of duty rn
@@ptanker9236The GameCube was more powerful than the PS2 at the time. It's why it ran games at a high frame rate like Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Resident Evil 4, etc
@@heroicgangster9981 Better than Call of Duty?
Kind of a low standard if you ask me, but you do you.
@@leonmystique9372 Yeah I have lower standards because I actually want games to be made XD To me, I don’t need games to look better if it sacrifices my patience for the gaming industry overall
The framerate it's disappointing but my big concern is the translation, I expected it to be more faithful to the original Japanese script, but it seems they kept things from the English translation. And if I see that I don't like the final translation, honestly I'm not going to buy this remake even if I love TTYD
First losers were complaining about 8-bit vs 16-bit then 16-bit vs 32-bit then 32-bit vs 64 bit then it got to the point where bits stopped mattering so losers started complaining about frame rates. It is a never ending cycle of annoyance.
Well atleast the bits debate made sense back then, as it was a huge graphical leap between generations and anyone could see the difference between them.
But framerate? pfft, these people nowadays are so obssessed with 30 vs 60 vs 120 fps debate that would have a seizure if they knew people could be happy back then with games running at 15 to 20 fps in early 3d era
@@Polengue yet the snes hit 60 constantly, the NES too, Genesis as well... and the GC and PS2 and DC and XboxOG.... Infact the ps2 the weakest of its gen hit 720 and 1080i at stable 60 on the few games that ran those modes.... the 30 FPS is just pure cope. yet why do emulated switchgames run better running on a swtich is my NEW question. FFS CFW is showing us that here is something DEEPLY wrong with game makes today.
Nintendo NEEEEEEEDS to get their shit together and provide 60 fps gaming. At least on their first party games. I skipped TOTK because I didn’t want 30 fps action combat.
That being said, I will be getting TTYD because it is turn-based.
Is that mainly the main reason why you didn't buy it
@@BowserEditz pretty much. There are a lot of action rpgs out there with 60 fps that I could play. I just didn’t want to play TOTK at 30 fps. There were other reasons, but this one was the main one.
*Imagine complaining about frame rate in your games...............*
*FRAME RATE*
Games can still be good even with low frame rate
There is no objectivity in game aesthetic debates. Framerates affect how fun a game is to play more frames =smoother gameplay animations=more fun. Also the aesthetic looks ugly to me and too shiny and bright and they are doing unnecessary censorship changes. I am just gonna stick to emulating TTYD. Its wrong to think its petty otherwise imo. Some people get sick from playing 30fps games. Its fair to not buy a remaster that hardly changes anything outside of graphics and sfx. Its too faithful for its own good. Also yes it was lazy clearly given how they could have optimized it with more time or something i mean metroid prime remastered looks better and is 60fps. Nintendo gives devs practically infinite time to develop their games. No excuse for no 60fps on hardware 20 years later when it doesn't look that demanding. Also graphics should never be chosen over performance something the original TTYD devs understood. Cereza devs put more effort into their game with the brush stroke artstyle and the gameplay isn't that demanding while ttyd has action commands. Using their take isn't a good defense since the games are so different and different budgets etc. Game will sell good regardless cause mario is in the title and switch is like the largest install base.
I disagree.
@@JoseViktor4099 Cool👍
Who gives a shit besides you? Because its only a select few people that i keep seeing the whine like little children about framerates, everyone else couldnt give anyless of a fuck
That’s crazy because I was playing Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order a while back and moved my character in both 60fps and 30fps modes on my Series X and literally saw no difference in framerate whatsoever. 😂
Also… TLDR
It really doesn't matter. If a game is good, it's good.
Is it fun? That's all I care about. Trash or boring game running at 1 million FPS that it's still a bad game. While a good at running at 60 FPS is a nice little bonus