"Sonic Doesn't Need A Story"
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
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A long-standing discussion regarding Sonic. Whether the chastized narratives of Sonic 06, Shadow, Forces & Lost World, or the riveting tales of Adventure 2, Black Knight, Unleashed, or Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Does Sonic truly thrive or excel without a story?
Timestamps:
0:00 Does Sonic Need a Story?
3:05 Sonic Generations' Story Truly is Missed Potential
9:14 Doesn't? Or Shouldn't?
18:10 Sonic's EXCELS in Story
25:09 The Key is Substance
Garroulus64's Sonic Generations rewritten: • What if Sonic Generati...
Music:
Welcome to Station Square - Sonic Adventure
Collection Room - Sonic Generations
Gallery - Sonic Generations
Jugnle Joyride (Night) - Sonic Unleashed
Oriental Lake - Super Mario Bros. Wonder
The Tile Pool - Super Paper Mario
Quartz Quadrant - Sonic The Hedgehog CD
Apotos (Day) - Sonic Unleashed
Soleanna New City - Sonic The Hedgehog 2006
Arid Sands (Night) - Sonic Unleashed
Soleanna Forest - Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 - Hry
The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog lowkey proves why Sonic stories matter.
Because it is a visual novel in that kind of games, the story matters a lot.
@@antrox2346 But even beyond that reason, it shows that they can write good Sonic stories despite the format.
@@ivanzoneBR I think the more appropriate question would be if Sonic needs complex stories, since games like the classic saga, Generations or Colors, have a very simple story, however people like those games because of the gameplay. When it comes to video games, the gameplay always matters more than the story, however I am not against more complex stories, but it is not paramount. Many franchises have very simple stories, but it's compensated by a funny gameplay.
PREACH
And frontiers
I never got the whole "Sonic is just a cartoon hedgehog, why should this be taken seriously" part.
What, can the Ninja Turtles not have any serious moments in their stories? They're just giant turtles with a rat for a teacher.
Literally the most well-written character in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 was the raccoon. How is that any different?
@@XxROTSA2xX A movie about toys coming to life learning to accept that their kid isn't gonna care for them in the future. Why should I take it seriously?
Batman is about a furry who fight bad guys because he refuses therapy yet people love him. These examples keeps going.
A game where I capture animals in balls and fight gods to then hear some people talk about there sad past and really depressing moments.....yea
1. Other franchises like Batman and Ninja Turtles actually have good writing to back them up, with Sonic for the most part hasn't.
2. They've also established themselves as being grittier and darker while Sonic has not. Batman debuted with mature themes and has always been known for such. Sonic debuted as a cute kid-friendly series starring goofy cartoon characters, and has always been known for such. That's why the random inconsistent attempts to detract from it haven't worked.
It doesn't work for Sonic the same reason it wouldn't work for Mickey Mouse.
Adventure 2, Black Knight, Secret Rings, Unleashed have left the chat 💀
Frontiers and forces
@@sukumadehk probably not forces, but yeah, also frontiers and other games like that.
@@SonicFanBoy138no forces had a story but unfortunately it was rushed and cut a lot and the english version is ass (naturally cause It was done by Pontac and Graff)
@@MullerFan28 yeah. What I meant was that although it had a story, it wasn't a good one.
You can say whatever you want about 06, but Shadow's story in this game was him at his peak. Silver's arc was also decent, but less compelling.
I think they're confusing Sonic for Mario...
Sonic is well known for having surprisingly deep stories for games about colorful cartoonish anthropomorphic animals. Its what set him apart (even the earlier games like Sonic 2 had a subtle story going on that observant players would catch on to). So why would it be a bad thing for the _game celebrating Sonic's legacy_ to have a deeper story? Makes no sense.
How could you say this when the Mario RPGs exist.
@@SparkNitr0I'd argue that the RPGs are more of an exception, Mario game stories rarely do anything more than give an excuse to push the player forward.
Celebrating Sonic's legacy would be to stop lying about what Sonic is known for. If anything set the series apart in the 90's, it's the speed and attitude. Not the storytelling. It's not nearly as deep as you think it is.
Sonic's legacy always HAD storytelling. Sonic 2's Death Egg was described to have launched from the 3 act zone Metropolis, and when the game was over, Sonic 3 explained that the Death Egg crash landed on Angel Island following the events of Sonic 2.
The Adventure series took off in terms of storytelling, sure, but it's those first three video games in the series, "Sonic's Golden Days" as some fans call them, that paved the way for that level of story telling. Saying Sonic doesn't need a story? Sure, maybe he doesn't, but to claim he never had storytelling is an outright lie.
Plus, I see the Shadow campaign for what it is, a celebration of Shadow The Hedgehog, a highly controversial video game that deepened Shadow's character, even if it wound up creating such memes as "that damn 4th chaos emerald", it's still a fond memory.
@@vividcolorandrichaudio6134 "Attitude" was the american rendition, not the worldwide one.
It's not what you think it is either dude.
Sonic's best beloved games all have good stories (Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, Frontiers) for example.
Acting as though the US version is the definitive Sonic for everyone is such a violently american mindset, and is also wrong.
Where did Sonic have the "dude with the 'tude" theme? Sonic Underground, Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, and other beloved Sonic medi-wait...
I mean, he had it in games too, like Sonic BOOM Rise of Lyr- what do you mean people don't like that one either?
- A game with terrible gameplay and no story will be remembered as a bad game.
- A game with good gameplay but no story will be remembered as a good game.
- A game with terrible gameplay but a _good_ story will still be remembered fondly regardless of being a bad game.
- A game with good gameplay and good story is S tier 😎
Case in point, Black Knight
@@greenstarforce001 My thoughts exactly
If it has terrible gameplay but a good story, it's a bad game regardless.
@@SaviorAssassin1996 Yes, I explicitly said that... it will still be remembered fondly though.
What separates Sonic from many iconic platformers is the world-building, lore, and the stories the games try to tell. It's one of the many reasons why I love Sonic as a franchise. It's also another reason why I love certain characters in the Sonic franchise to begin with (i.e. Blaze the Cat from Sonic Rush).
💯
I thought the Sonic series' most defining feature was... Y'know... His style of gameplay? His speed-focused, action arcade style of platforming?
It makes no sense to me when people try to argue sonic games don’t need stories when 90% of the time the memorable things people talk about with this series are literally what happens in sonic stories’ narratives.
Yeah if you take Sonic and remove the story, the games would literally be on average extremely mid. The story is ultimately the thing that keeps the franchise alive, really, because its what got people to care in the first place. Sonic games have always had janky gameplay, but when there's the story on top of it that's what makes it so beloved.
If Sonic had no story, the franchise would have died with 06, possibly even earlier.
@@lasercraft32 If "Sonic games have always had janky gameplay" then he doesn't deserve to survive, no matter the quality of the story. Although, people haven't even tended to like most Sonic stories, so that claim doesn't make sense...
@@KaleSTUDIOS"Most" is a very strong claim, which is why it is wrong
@@lasercraft32 Sonic games have always had janky gameplay, but when there's the story on top of it that's what makes it so beloved." FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT. Don't get me wrong, sonic gameplay is fun as shit, especially the genesis and adventure gameplay styles for me. But even from the classic era, they were janky compared to other platformers on a technical polishing level. SONIC WAS ALWAYS PRETTY JANKY. It didn't start with adventure games, or his transition into 3D.
The style, story, characters, aesthetic, music etc. all these aspects is what truly gives the series its complete vigor.
@@Prime_Legendsonic is a series about constant motion and mesmerizing levels for top scores.
I find it funny that people will complain about a series about a blue hedgehog taking itself seriously. But will have no problem with a team of teenage mutant turtles, a guy in a bat suit or a guy with a key for a blade taking themselves seriously. This whole "cartoon blue hedgehog can't be serious" nonsense needs to stop. I actually prefer it when Sonic stories get serious. Hell, I love Black Knight's story because of how serious it was and how Sonic's characterization was. I don't mind more light hearted stories in fact I welcome them, it just becomes a problem when the character's writing suffers because of that.
TMNT is perhaps the craziest mainstream franchise ever, yet its stories are its strongest aspect.
TMNT and Kingdom Hearts are also stupid. The original TMNT comics that everyone praises for how violent and gritty they are were just parodies of Frank Miller's work. Anyone who says that KH's convoluted mess of a story line is good, all I can say to that is read a book, please. Batman usually gets a pass because he's been around for so long and to quote the movie Chinatown "Politicians, old buildings, and whores all get respect if they last long enough" but most people acknowledge that superheroes aren't really high art. I mean when a comic like Watchmen which is a dark satire pointing out why superheroes are awful is considered the peak of superhero story telling, you know this genre doesn't have much to offer (I mean outside of ripping off other movies like what The Dark Knight, Logan and Joker do)
It's baffling people still argue about this. Just because Sonic games have had bad stories in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't have stories at all. Frontiers proved they're still capable of this in the modern day, and even before that, Unleashed, Black Knight, and the post-reboot Archie and IDW comics have shown that Sonic can have some amazing storytelling potential. Hell, even the Adventure games had awesome story ideas even if they were scuffed in the presentation department. Serious or lighthearted, doesn't matter as long as the writing's solid.
Post reboot is worse than pre.
Post-Reboot Archie was pretty rough. While it had some very good stuff, that came from the Universe spin-off. But my gosh, for all its flaws, pre-reboot Archie is in my opinion the absolute best Sonic thing ever. It pushed boundaries the series will never again, and I miss that.
@@bowserbreaker2515THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE ONE!!!
@@bunsmasterbunny It had some good stuff, but definitely. Pre-reboot Archie is my favorite Sonic thing ever.
@@shanejohnson1606 What does that mean?
I'd think about it this way. If SONIC DID NOT need a story, then frankly why does sonic's success in other mediums show otherwise? Sonic X, Sonic ova, the movies, archie comics, fleetway comics, the mangas, and most of the heavy-story sonic games were EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL. They pulled in alotta fans into the series, to know more about the characters and the world.
I just think if story wasn't important at all in sonic, he wouldn't be successful across most media. Nevertheless, he wouldn't be nearly as popular today, and would've probably died a long time ago.
EDIT: A game like generations would be drastically better if it had a substantial plot. Settling for 'well it's just a celebration, it doesn't need one' is just settling for less and lowering your standard.
Stories are what keeps the series alive cuz people love and care for the characters.
I mean, someone saying Sonic doesn’t “need” a story for them to enjoy it isn’t a bad take in itself. Despite having very little in the way of a story (and a story definitely would have been an improvement), Generations is the game that made me a Sonic fan because its level design was phenomenal and its gameplay (both styles) was just so much fun. I played Mania after, and while it’s got more story than Generations, it’s nowhere near as story dense as something like the Adventure games. Didn’t like it as much as Gens but still had a blast. I don’t “need” Sonic games to have deep or complex stories to be fun.
The problem with this take comes when people use it shut down OTHER fans who DO want a deeper story. Sure, I personally don’t need a deep story to enjoy a Sonic game. But if someone else does, that’s just why they like the franchise. People can be fans of the same thing for different reasons.
Sonic has had many stories and they all were more memorable with it imo
The same people who say this claim sonic was funny in the meta era..
or hate storytelling. People like to insult franchises for being one way to them, then make fun of it more for being more than that.
Sad but true
I think the most appropriate would be if Sonic needs complex stories, since games like the classic saga, Generations or Colors, have a very simple story, yet people like those games for the gameplay. When it comes to video games, the gameplay always matters more than the story, however I'm not against more complex stories, but it's not paramount. Many franchises have very simple stories, but it is compensated by gameplay.
The people who use the term "meta era" have no clue what "meta" actually means.
“Meta era” 🤡
I think adding on to Gens' story is one of the reason Shadow Generations exists. The way I see it, Shadow Gens is designed to fill in for Sonic Gens' shortcomings. Game too short? Now there's an entire other campaign to bolster the playtime. Poor story? Shadow Generations will be very story focused. The two games compliment each other.
You don’t NEED a story for a fun sonic game but a good story almost never makes something worse
I'm always annoyed by people really speaking for everyone else and genuinely believing a character or thing is always one thing or the other. Yes Sonic is a cartoon hedgehog, but the reason why there is a major fandom for him in the first place compared to most gaming mascots because Sonic and the brand is much more than that.
Not every Sonic game needs a story (sometimes a simple plot suffices), but a story is what more often then not makes the games more memorable. You'll see most people talking about the story more then the game if it ends up being executed well (06 is the only somewhat exception to that rule)
How come a man who dresses up as a bat who fights a clown gets to have serious stories but a cartoon hedgehog dealing with the same things gets made fun of?
Obviously not the exact same things but sonic games deal with darker tones like death too
Sonic’s story in Unleashed and in SA1 is a pinnacle Sonic story imo. When it’s just him like in SA1, He’s bouncing around at the speed of sound and stopping Eggman and that’s all his story needs to be. Unleashed, Black Knight and a little bit of ‘06 say “I’ll do more anyway” and have Sonic burst into someone’s life like some kind of radical angel and be a genuine friend to them until they can stand up on their own, and then he’s off with the wind again.
But the best of these kinds of genuinely wholesome stories is when they would contrast against a Team Dark story where the focus is on themes like identity or purpose or grief, stories that wouldn’t typically make it to Saturday morning TV if they weren’t all cute cartoon animals.
While I still treat Gameplay as king, I do think Sonic deserves stories (either lighthearted or “dark” or both) with good characterization. People love the Sonic characters and we want them to see them shine rather than being useless like in Forces or Generations.
For 10+ years Sega thought Sonic calling Eggman "Baldy McNosehair" every cutscene while acting incompotent for 90% of the game because he needs to learn some bullshit lesson about trusting his friends was an improvement.
A good Sonic game doesn’t *always* need a good story, but it can definitely add to a better experience if written well. Adventure 2 and Unleashed solidified that
sonic games can get away with a simple story if they get the characters right and don't make them stupid and painfully unfunny
I don't like Generations story because of filler in-between cutscenes, and other characters are just cheerleaders. "You can do it, Sonic! I'm just gonna stand there and talk about how you can do it, Sonic! and have no attempts to help, even if you're on a verge of death!"
Mario may not need a story, but I know this and Kirby do
Kirby is more about lore then story
@@MILDMONSTER1234 *Than
But honestly, Kirby as a character kinda needs a story, otherwise it's just "sucky blob says Poyo and eats a lot" I love Kirby, but he is a poor example of a character who doesn't need a story.
@@BlueEyedVibeChecker Kirby stories on average aren’t any deeper then what you described. People often mistake having lore and world building for plot and narrative when they are not the same thing. Kirby has the former not so much the latter, kirby unuronically not even joking has more in common with dark souls then anything else when it comes to story.
I think people who say Sonic shouldn't have a story are the same who generalize Sonic having bad games, and it's a perspective I can understand if I think a show or game is overhyped.
My issue with Sonic stories lately is that they don't salvage the terrible gameplay and series direction, and I'm quadrupling down in saying Sonic Frontiers should be remembered as a betrayal to fans and a horrible entry in the franchise. Since Lost World, the narratives have been either botched, flanderized, or completely absent from Sonic games. The characterization in games like Forces and Frontiers (where a more complex story is present) is just infuriating. I'm sick of waiting more than 4 years for a new Sonic game just for them to fuck it up in both gameplay and narrative. They're doing the same things since the early 2010s, except they're now nostalgia-pandering to the Adventure crowd. So it's a step in the right direction because it calls back to the things I like? They haven't been going in the right direction for a very long time, and I doubt they are with Shadow Generations. I'm not saying it'll be a bad port in terms of gameplay, but my expectations for its narrative and other new content haven't even formulated in my grey matter.
In regards to how a Sonic narrative should go about, I think every Sonic narrative should drive us to root for Sonic and his friends. Even bad games like Shadow and Sonic 06 understood this, and part of why Sonic has stuck around for so long is because everyone loves Sonic as a character, even in-universe. The reason I'm standing on Frontiers being a horrible Sonic game is because I didn't particularly enjoy any character in its narrative, and the gameplay loop is really boring. The 5 year gap between Forces (which was already one of the worst games in the series) and Frontiers broke me as a Sonic fan to the point it hurts (from a fanboy perspective). I don't care about callbacks to other characters if they don't appear in the game at all. They lied about Sonic's memories converging in Cyberspace as an excuse to re-use Green Hill and Chemical Plant assets, again. Frontiers should've had Hyper Sonic return, with all the side characters they name-dropped in hidden dialogue looking up at the sky and cheering on for Sonic in a montage, or something. That single segment could've made Frontiers the 7/10 experience people claim it is, but SEGA and Sonic Team just don't want that.
There needs to be that connective tissue where part of the story is about rooting for Sonic, either having characters actively help him, cheer him on, teaming up with him, or have Sonic do things that resonate with other characters in-universe. Shown to us on screen, and not told. He stands out from Mario, Kirby, and other mascot characters because we love Sonic as a character. That's one way I'd stop being harsh to the newer games. The other way would be to make the gameplay fun again.
All that's not a jab to the video, I agree with your points. It's frustrating to see a series I love have this much contention, but I understand why it does.
Because the characters being present and not doing anything isn't at all something people complained about regarding the 2010 games. (Sarcasm)
Seriously, if characters have no point in being present then they shouldn't be anything more than mentioned or referenced. Especially in a game about moving on from the past and embracing the uncertainly certain future.
It's also not like they outright explained in the game that Sonic's memories being integrated into Cyber Space, his lack of regrets to chain him down, and power is why he was able to escape from Cyber Space. Oh, wait, they did do exactly that.
@@Michael-bb5dd You ignored the point of my comment, thinking this was a slam dunk. It's not.
WOT do you want from Sonic games in terms of gameplay and narrative?
Do Sonic games need a story? (Looks back at my past memories of what moments were most impactful to me as a kid, compelled me to complete playing a Sonic game to see the ending, and have persisted in my adult mind up until now) Yes. Yes it absolutely does.
All the Sonic games with simple nearly non-existent stories are the ones I never finished (Sonic Generations for example, I barely played any of it, I was so bored by the story/lack thereof. I heard Colors was more of the same so didn't pick it up). Some context: My first Sonic game was Sonic Adventure, then SA2, then Heroes, Sonic Rush, etc. Starting off with such a banger like the Adventure series, I distinctly remember as a little kid being ravenously hungry for story content and feeling starved for it in some of the later games as it progressively disappeared.
Stories are what make things stick in our monkey brains, they give all media impact. That still needs to pair with good gameplay though of course, the presence of a story won't save bad gameplay, but a decent-to-good story can bolster and overcome some weaknesses of mid-gameplay and be the cherry on top of great gameplay. These things need to work together harmoniously.
Ppl need to know if sonic didnt have a story, the movies will not exist
Even those these have been touched on multiple times, consider the following:
A series centered around animorphic turtles that learn ninjistu from an animorphic rat.
A series centered around a pink puffball that mostly eats and sleeps.
A series centered around a cat/rabbid creature that uses a ring that shoots bullets made of wind and can inflate enemies.
A game centered around the MC encountering a talking flower, animals, skeletons, and even a flamboyant robot.
A movie that centers around a swashbuckling cat that goes on a journey with a goofy dog and his love interest to get a wish from a star.
All these things I mention have their fair share of wacky, light-hearted moments. But also have moments that are serious, emotional, or have high-stakes. If these beloved sources of media can have this, so can Sonic.
Not saying Sonic needs to be deep or serious all the time. Just don't have the characters and their personalities tarnished at the cost of a simpler, light-hearted plot.
Simple, complex, serious, lighthearted... Doesn't matter, as long as it has heart and care for the characters
(And we get some of each from time to time)
This, like I said in the community post, is a very interesting topic I actually have a lot of thoughts on.
No Sonic games don't need story *but* they also shouldn't be restricted to not being able to tell stories. An interesting point was made about comparing Sonic to Kirby or (mostly Paper) Mario and how they can take on darker themes and slide out for the better where as Sonic gets the ridicule. I feel like yes, it is a double standard but I don't think one without reason. Sonic handles serious themes very differently especially in terms of whenever Shadow's backstory is brought up. Maybe the juxtaposition of what happened to Maria and her cousin being a man shaped like an egg is a little jarring. Not to mention how riddled with continuity and consistency issues some Sonic stories have compared to say Kirby who's lore is confusing but still allows you to connect dots in a cohesive way.
That being said even if some stories have their issues, it still allows us to get more out of these characters. Shadow would still be a popular character if SA2 barely had a story but I believe it would be to a dramatically lower scale. There's also a reason people aren't happy with these characters being stagnant, sometimes flanderized versions of themselves, because they weren't always like this and they're getting more boring now. The 2000's stories (for all their faults) had heart and passion for their characters. Behind the layers of mismanaged, confusing storytelling I think Shadow the Hedgehog 2005's themes are top notch and a great place to take Shaow's character after Heroes.
The stories themselves I feel like, don't need to be serious all the time. I do think the early - mid 2000's were a bit much back to back with multiple hours worth of of cutscenes and (let's all be for real) shotty storytelling here and there. But I will admit what we had in the 2010's was way too far in the other direction. I'm fine with the serious stuff but I think it would be good spaced out between more character focused stuff because that's what I love about Sonif most. The characters. Stuff like Heroes allowing the characters to bounce off each other once in a while or Rush being about Blaze learning to open up through Sonic and friends or just Unleashed. I feel like when Sonic squares in on the characters, it's at it's best.
Just a side note about stories gaming cause it came up in the video. Let me start off by saying I am of the opinion that videogames should value gameplay first and foremost above anything else. If a games story is bothering someone, they can skip the cutscenes, if the gameplay is bothering them, they wasted their money. I don't think a nothing story should be an active detriment or point against a game and I feel like Sonic Generations being basically storyless isn't a bad thing especially since it didn't set a norm. Lambast Lost World and Forces all you want (I sure have) but you can't deny that they at least tried to have stories so if Sonic Team just wanted to have a celebration and have the plot mostly string the Sonics along and do nothing substantial, I'm perfectly fine with that. With that being said I do NOT think that stories aren't still a part of games and should also be judged. If a story is good, it should be credited and if it's bad it should be critiqued. Not being the most important thing or being allowed to be a nothingburger once in a while should not equate to good and bad stories not coming out or being talked about.
Most people nowadays got drawn in by the story, if you want fun gameplay mario consistently puts out quality all the time. The thing that sticks with me afterwards when I'm done with a game is the story I'm not someone who replays games alot, plus they got comics TV shows and a whole bunch of fangames it's mostly about the characters so story matters.
Sonic needs a story. The characters are very well developed. If they didn't have a story, that would be a huge waste.
The storybook games show that well written stories are welcome.
Sure, its not needed but its a good edition.
I liked the idea of Eggman still having some leftover Negative HGO energy. And you establish that the Time Eater is capable of freezing the time limit. Allowing Eggman to have some permanent control over some victims of his energy.
And that energy is used for Chaos, Shadow, and Silver. Giving an interesting reason why they are fighting you. But while the time limit was made infinite, the Negative HGO energy is weak. Allowing Sonic to break them from their mind control.
Peak sonic had well written stories alongside fun gameplay, music, and artstyle. A sonic game is good when it as a whole has soul/ambition and is executed well. The story is one facet, so is gameplay, when sonic (or the games/media) narrow it to just one concept i smdh.
Great video as always. When it comes to stories in video games, I can take them or leave them. It's not really my biggest concern since I don't really play games for story. Same case with Sonic. I will admit, in the past I did actually believe that Sonic doesn't do well with story. I grew up playing the games with simpler plots like the Genesis games as well as Sonic Colors and Generations, and when I saw cutscenes online like in Sonic 06 and Shadow The Hedgehog, I was kinda like, "Really? This is what they did before? Thank God they're not doing that stuff anymore." But, I learned that it all comes down to execution. If they do it well, I'll support it.
To be honest though, I find myself preferring the simpler and more cartoony stories akin to Colors, since I do think Sonic and friends fit better there. Unleashed, in my opinion was a great way to have a light-hearted and cartoony atmosphere while also having high stakes. Even without much story though, I think the game still has plenty of value and substance if everything else works.
I think what's important for Sonic stories to be effective is to have enough confidence in itself, light-hearted or serious. Games like Forces, definitely failed at that and we've seen some of that returning with Frontiers. I hope the same happens for Shadow's campaign in the Generations remaster.
You must have never played the best two sonic games with a good story "Sonic Adventure DX" and "Sonic adventure 2 battle".
@@1BadAssArchAngelvs14 On the contrary, I have played Sonic Adventure 2.
I feel like this has been talked about before.People are not ever going to give Sonic stories the credit they deserve. It is like people have amnesia when it comes to this stuff.
Sonic does need a story
A better question is "Does it need to be serious or lighthearded?"
Sonic has had examples of both working, and neither working. Its a case by case basis, and Im tired of people absolutely demanding everything to be deep and layered
I think Adventure 2 and Black Knight are the peak of serious storytelling, while Lost World is an embarrasing attempt at a serious story. As for lighthearted stories... I mean... I'm not a fan of Heroes' story or Colors, but... The classic games are neat if you count them
@@mrpro538 I'm personally just tired of this weird obsession with needing Sonic stories to rival something like TLOU to be considered good
Sonic Boom (the show, not the game) has proven that Sonic is allowed to be goofy and not-deep, and Frontiers proves you can have something more layered and down to earth
Sonic is that somewhat rare franchise that can have both, and I'm so tired of pretending that we can only have one
@@lilsoonerfaninmo Sonic is definitely put on an unfair stage where anything less than 100 is an automatic 0 for some reason, and I agree it is annoying to a degree.
But as long as the story makes sense, I say who cares if it's serious or light hearted?
People like to think that Sonic needs to be as well written as a movie-like experience like TLoU or God of War, when in reality, he's in a fast-paced fun series, not a "Shakespeare will drown in his own tears with this" movie-esque story like Sony games are, they just don't know how to differentiate.
Yes they need stories
in my opinion if the game is fun no.
But it will help it stand out.
Say what you want about Sonic 06 but people remember the story even if it is crappy
Story gives you more reason to remember
The Shadow and Silver stories are actually amazing in that game
Sonic 06 to me legit has a good ambitious story for a Sonic game but the game was legit actually broken. Sonic Forces is forgettable garbage because it is a polished piece of boring trash and it doesn't help the story feels like something a kindergartner would make fun of.
ALL of my favorite Sonic games have very strong and compelling narratives, Unleashed, 06, storybook games, Adventure, Frontiers, all of them. My favorite comic series ever is IDW Sonic and that's because it takes its cast and stories seriously and fleshes out quite literally everything we loved about Sonic. Yes, I am of the opinion that Sonic needs these type of stories.
Sure, Sonic games may not need stories....
But they sure are nice
Transformers is just toys, they don’t need a story. They function and they are fun to play and they are masterfully built.
It wouldn’t have lasted 40 years if it didn’t tho.
Stories and characters are how we form attachment and relationships. Adventure 2 story altered my brain cemetery as a kid seeing it play out on Sonic X.
Imagine Undertale if it were only gameplay 💀
It’s like when Pokémon fans say “game freak has never been good at stories” it’s just a excuse. Sonic has tv shows, movies and REALLY good comics. Why would we settle for less when we already know Sonic can be peak fiction when it chooses to be.
The main issue i have with the modern games IS the story. as someone who loves Sonic for the Lore, i reignited my love for the Sonic franchise, the first games i ever played in my parents Sega Master System, when i was a teenager watching the 1993 cartoon ( still best Sonic media). So yeah, story is incredibly important.
I get that different people like different things, but I've always felt that the people that say "Sonic games don't need stories" or in general "Games don't need deep stories" are just people that don't get videogames, people that just think videogames are children's distractions instead of yet another form of art, similar to the people that think that animation is only for children, they just don't get it, they don't get what games can mean, they don't get how a game can also be art and so they think it's not worth the try. And that's kinda sad to me, cuz' I love games, I love great stories and overall I love art and I'd really love that the general public understood that, cuz' I've seen a lot of people that have missed on the life changing expiernce of really fucking good art just for thinking that it's only for children and that liking it would be inmature of them, when that's just not true
...He runs fast, and gets rings, and loop-de-loops his way into your heart.
Sonic without a story is literally like Resident Evil without the horror elements(we saw this once, and RE6 did not work out) or Ratchet & Clank without weapons and gadgets. Sonic may seem like just another child-friendly 3d platformer like Mario, but part of it's charm is giving it's characters arcs and depths, so a good Sonic story is important. Even if it's a simple one. That being said, the stories for Colors, Lost World, and Forces literally did not do those games any favors. I always play Colors skipping every cutscene because the gameplay is fun enough but the dialog and story is not.
12:55 I think why this discussion doesn’t pop up nearly as often in the Kirby series is because both the lore in a single game and the series’ larger scale story is a lot easier to ignore (hecc, most casual fans are only passingly aware of it because of how much the very existence of “Kirby Lore” is memed on). The stages themselves have stories, but you kind of have to look for them.
Yeah, you can skip cutscenes in Sonic games, but their plots are usually far more involved and more in-your-face. That’s my guess as to why, even if it’s not a great excuse per se.
personally id love to see your rendition of a full generations rerwite, you put out some really interesting ideas, i am basically begging you to make that rewite a video at some point lol
IMO, no, Sonic games don't need a story, but a good story does enhance the game and make it better overall.
Sonic stories are why he still has an edge on Mario. If he stopped having them, he would die in popularity.
@@akdreamer6497 Nintendo can rest over Mario because their games are consistently great enough to make people not invest in whatever Mario is doing. Sonic is a popular brand because people actually care about Sonic himself and the brand and its characters. People care about what Sonic is doing.
@@heroicgangster9981 Agreed
@@akdreamer6497an edge on Mario 😂
@@iTvngoI mean he does
In my opinion some games dosen’t need a Story but a good Story is always a welcome addition to the experience of a good game
I'm half convinced that those that say "Sonic doesn't need/shouldn't have a story" Or anything along the lines of "Sonic characters should be taken seriously," haven't played any games outside of sonic 1, 2 and 3&K, Like when you have something like Kingdom Hearts that was Micky FREAKING Mouse wielding a massive oversized Key like a lightsaber, along with other disney character fighting what are basically family friendly hell spawn, Shadow having an existential crisis over if he is a clone or not seems tame by comparison.
Not every Sonic game needs a dark serious story IMO, But even a bare bones Plot like Sonic Must stop Eggman can be memorable if Characters and interactions are written well enough.
But I feel Like there is one thing constantly Left out of this conversation when talking about Sonic Stories, that Being PRESENTATION!! A lot of Sonic games since colours IMO just don't Present there plots well, Even frontiers, which in many could be considered a return to form for Sonic stories doesn't have that good of a presentation.
To be honest this franchise means very little to me without its stories.
People on youtube unironically, passionately talking about sonic the hedgehog... nature is healing. (10/10 video, i have never seen a better rebuttal to the whole "Sonic does not need a story" thing until now)
My thoughts exactly. This is why I just don't get how Sonic "failed to transition into 3D".
That last section, substance. No wonder a LOT of internet fanfiction is about Sonic, and pretty much everyone tried improving Forces.
And even I, who much like you doesn't play exactly much, can feel it.
I really loved this video I really like someone in finally making a video like this I have always hated it when people say Sonic does not need a story which is dumb one of my favorite games in story and gameplay is the Spider-Man games these games really mess the heart strings like the story telling is some of the best out there the ending in each game was genuinely just amazing and the character development is amazing especially on characters like Phin and aunt may and yuri and even the news reporters that play when just swinging around and every character in the game the games make them super likeable because they all have a role in the story and the endings feel so good because of all the build up to the endings.
okay so for those who dont think they need one, imagine frontiers, now imagine sonic simply flies the tornado to the starfall islands alone, then imagine he runs cyberspace with no context, runs around each island for a bit, then leaves on the tornado, thats the best i can describe it before its just a level loader. Classic games don't because thats how they were made with the times, modern sonic brought modern gameplay
I take 10.
@@lpfan4491 you ground coffee grains by hitting it with a hammer on the floor then sweep it into lukewarm water and drink it and call it black coffee
@@brandongittens9045 I don't drink coffee, so I don't. In any case, no final horizon means happy me.
@@brandongittens9045 To be fair, grinding coffee with a hammer would be super efficient and give you a free work out.
But black coffee is garbo, so I'll take a good story any day.
The line of thinking that Sonic games stories don't matter and that they're an expendable aspect of the games annoys me greatly.
There is nothing taboo about the concept of a story in a Sonic game. If you're going to point the finger at something that renders a story stupid in a Sonic game, point it at poor storytelling, plot holes, shallow plots, flanderization and other cases of OoC behavior. Not the basic concept of there being a story in the first place.
Stories are the backbone that motivates the characters to do what they do. It gives them direction, it gives them purpose, It can serve to give them depth. And it's just mind boggling to me personally that something that can serve to enhance the overall entertainment factor, emotional connection, and memorability of a game can be considered so expendable.
Like how the fuck else do you think Sonic still has such a strong cult following after all of his missteps like the "dark age"? Do you still think it's a mystery of how Shadow the Hedgehog outclassed the likes of even Tails and Eggman in popularity? How does Silver The Hedgehog still has more fans and is generally more liked than the Zetis despite debuting in a bad game?
Sonic does need a story it just needs to find a great balance between seriousness and light hearted stuff on top of being well written, I really hate this thing of "It's a blue Hedgehog fighting a man shaped like an Egg" when these are most likely the same people begging for deep stories in Mario spinoff games.
The stories they had in the 2000s weren't perfect but they had at least interesting things happening, in the Pontaff/Colors era it was like they just came up with stories to distract 8 year olds for 11 minutes and called it a day, it was to the point were I was like "why should I care about what's happening? the characters don't act how they should, the new villains turn out lame, there's no real steaks and most of Sonic's friends are pushed aside or are used as bate". Boom could've been interesting with Rise of Lyric, it felt like it had a lot of ambition but it was wasted because Sega just has to mess everything up.
I liked it way more when Sonic felt like a Shounen adventure series, it was what made Sonic feel "cool", even Classic Sonic had it with CD's Toei cutscenes, current Classic Sonic doesn't feel the same.
It's so frustrating that people beg for more storytelling in Sonic then when they get stuff like Frontiers or whatever Shadow Generations will have they're like "OMG I DON'T CARE!" or "Lol this is so stupid".
Reminder that the MCU and super heroes in general were THE thing in cinema from a whole decade.
If we're being honest, the only reason Sonic specifically is being targeted by statements like this is because he isn't Mario. If there was no Mario, there wouldn't even be a Sonic because Sonic was literally designed to be the "Mario Killer" and to make the Genesis/Mega Drive look better than the SNES/SF, which paid off in the short term but undeniably contributed to Sonic's "rough transition".
SEGA lost all the console wars, eventually had to leave the console market entirely, also eventually "merged" with a bigger corporation that was more than eager to use their name to obfuscate their shadier but ultimately more lucrative business "ventures" and literally reduce Sonic to a fucking cereal box mascot, brought us what we used to call the "dark age" of Sonic but now call the "_second_ dark age" because the Sega Saturn is exponentially more popular now than it was when it mattered, and as if all that wasn't enough, the cherry on top was the "meta era" where SEGA tried to do the "opposite" of what they did before by making the most drastic yet also most superficial changes instead of actually addressing the most substantial issues with their games because they're the direct product of their own half-assed incompetence and they refuse to take the L unless it's for an ironic "sorry not sorry" twitter meme, coupled with a less than subtle attempt to appeal to Nintendo fans, who are ultimately the real reason Sonic is getting these kinds of sentiments.
I mean, I'm just saying, the guy who said "Sonic was never good" didn't grow up on the losing side of the console war.
So yeah, all that pretty much happened back-to-back, and even after all that, after all these years, over 3 decades later, Sonic is still best known for his rivalry with Mario. It's bad enough that Sonic can never really get out from under Mario's shadow, but the gap between them is just downright absurd. When people say things like this, what they're really doing is making a dismissive comparison. "Sonic doesn't need a story" because Mario doesn't, and look how much better Mario is. "Sonic games have too many characters" because you only play as Mario and sometimes green Mario in his games, and look how much better Mario is. Sonic games were better when they weren't trying to ride Final Fantasy's coat tails. Meanwhile, Mario is setting trends instead of chasing them, and look how much better Mario is.
...so yeah, this remark is indeed disingenuous because it isn't really about Sonic. It's never really been about Sonic. Sonic doesn't matter. Sonic isn't relevant.
Sonic isn't Mario.
To add to your point Mr. Archestereo. As much as I have loved Sonic over 2 decades. I have begun to figure out this; Sonic lacks an identity. The Sonic games and franchise doesn't know what it wants to be. Let me explain it a little more clearly. From what notice and it has been doing this in the games too looking back over the years. Sonic is either too much like DBZ, Megaman, Pokemon, and including Mario like you said. Even a recent game I seen wants to be Kirby. Strange however when it did try to have it's own identity outside the games, seems like everybody( except for me and a few fans) hated the idea and after a decade and three years that part of Sonic is just gone now. As a fan of the true Sonic, do you know how long I was left hollow until I realized two years ago that just because they abandoned it didn't mean I had to. I tell you what man, this is crazy😓
@@paigeturner7513 Not quite sure I'm understanding the timeline here, what is it that's gone?
@@Archestereo Well to put it like this there was certain media outside the games where Sonic did actually feel like his own character like in books I read, as well as cartoons. It just feels more true to his form. But maybe it's just me as I didn't have the luxuries to buy every single Sonic game so I enjoyed what I did via books and cartoons. When I did get a sonic game, it was a treat; mostly for birthdays and doing well in school. For the past two years I felt so lost with what direction the franchise was trying to go in, so I lost intrest. I barely go on youtube anymore to see any recent content because all I ever see is another rant or complaint about what a Sonic game is doing or not doing for youtubers. It's so tiresome seeing these on my CZcams feed. I also realized that my tastes' are different now. But the only reason why every once in a while I look on youtube for Sonic the Hedgehog because I adore this character. Been that way for years and one of the reasons why I never wanted to give up on anything; including my happiness.
@@paigeturner7513 I kinda felt the same way when the first game dropped. Yeah, I know, the classic games, particularly the first one, didn't exactly have as much going on in them as later games or other media, but almost immediately after I picked up the controller Sonic seemed special. He wasn't just some Road Runner or Speedy Gonzales knockoff.
For starters, this was a speedster who didn't just use his speed to run away.
In fact, I really liked how they capped his character arc in the first movie by having Sonic declare he was done running away before trashing Eggman's machine like he does in the games.
I also really liked that scene in the second movie where they had him face his fear by running across the ocean, which not only had one of the few moments (in any medium) of genuine, organic tension but was also one of the few moments in other mediums that actually acknowledged the momentum-based gameplay of the classics, as well as the only moment (again, in any medium) that seemed to address the risk Sonic is taking by running across water.
Overall, however, I can't help but think movie Sonic is really just Dewie from the Ducktales reboot. I mean, sure, it's easy to say I'm just basing the character on the voice, but if nothing else I don't seem to be alone in thinking movie Sonic seems a little off. It's kinda like how it's widely regarded that movie Eggman is really just "classic Jim Carey".
Anyway, getting a Sonic game was also a rare treat in my case when I was growing up. I didn't even get to play S3&K until I got Mega Collection or CD until I got Gems Collection, and by that time I was buying my own games anyway. I was basically taking whatever I could get, and to say I was pleased to find out the cartoons and comics existed would be an understatement. I even got a couple of the novelettes. One was an origin story in line with SatAM and the Archie series, the other was Sonic Xtreme.
Did you have either of those books? Or by "books" were you meaning the comics? If so, did you grow up reading Archie or Fleetway? Also, are you of the position that "western" Sonic was better than "eastern" Sonic?
If I'm being honest, I think the adventure games were where we saw the peak of Sonic's stories and characters. Everything after those games has mostly been a disappointment. Despite being there for Sonic's birth and heyday, I'm sort of a black sheep amongst the old guard. Basically, Adventure Sonic is my Sonic.
@@Archestereo That's really cool. I have read a few archie sonic and I've only seen glimpses of fleeway(uk) Sonic online. It was really neat how each of these two book series told a different story with the characters. Don't really have a particular favorite Sonic seeing as how when I discovered that It wasn't just games I wanted all of it. If had to choose the spot on personality for Sonic, it would be the one from Sonic X( not that I didn't like his personality from the other cartoon series from the past, it's just that by the time you get to Sonic X his personality is little bit more fleshed in ways so he's like supportive, caring, true blue, good natuted with a heart of gold, heroic, a kid a heart, mature for cream, helen, tails and chris, wise, sypathetic, a bit sneaky at times, adventurous and likes to relax and is very fun. ( Sonic's friendship with Cream is So wholesome)🤩🤩 Western Sonic is era and area I lived in so it's just second nature to me. I never knew up until a few years back that Western and Eastern had their "differences"🤭
we haven't had good stories since unleashed and the story book games, why has sonic team forsaken us
Literally anyone who thinks Sonic cant make good stories have not picked up his comics. Like legitimately Archie Sonic was so good, it was doin a combination of what comics and mange do.
Having key events and milestones where the characters grow and change. Like in manga. But there are shake ups to the status quo and jumping on points with a very long history like american comics.
Sonic went from a local rebel to being known as the Hero of Mobious. It shows the characters growing and changing.
Which makes me so mad that it got canned cuz the last arc it was on was genuinely really, really interesting. Pertaining to Naugus becoming King and even a group of covert Freedom Fighters. There was a lot of moving parts that made the world feel alive. Obviously fuck Penders but also Sega a lil since they were so hands off Penders won.
Pointing being anyone who doesn't want a story in Sonic haven't really experienced or engaged with how good they can be.
I wonder though what tradeoffs are associated with focus on creating a narrative...is it really just something that benefits any game, or does it ruin the vibe or potential of some ideas inherently? I don't really know the answer but I honestly doubt it's as simple as having a good story = potential not squandered 🤔 Awesome video!
I agree with you on this video and shows why stories do matter and not just in Sonic.
Wasn’t the point of the sonic to be the anti Mario? Well being the anti Mario kinda means it should focus on characters and take itself more seriously cause Mario doesn’t even bother
I've always liked the idea that the Time Eater is a paradox entity, what remains of the Sonic 06 timeline and Solaris coalesced into a big time-eating horrendous snarl. That's why it still "remembers" Crisis City, even though that's been removed from the timeline.
It’s ironic that Sonic, the series known for story, is being recommended to stop having one. And it’s pretty much the opposite of Mario, which barely ever has a story and is begged to have a big one again.
I think a good sonic game has a good story that isn’t to over the top serious and edgy and not to kiddy as well I think SA2 is the perfect sonic story, it has action, somber moods and feel good moods and it doesn’t fully focus on sonic it focuses on a whole cast or a story that sonic stumbles in and is playing a co-lead role with the big new character in the game
im still very surprised it took so long for people to take the idea of stories in video games seriously.
Sonic stories were always something I enjoyed when i was younger. I didn't notice how much i valued a good story until Lost World as that was about the time I started to understand myself and the world around me more. It was also around the time I played Kingdom Hearts for the first time, and things began to change in my mind about how important a good story is in a game.
I've played more games than I can count, and my favorite games usually have good stories as well as gameplay and music. Granted party games dont need one, and I let those slide, but single player adventure/rpg/platformers need a good story to make me interested enough to keep going. If the story isn't interesting enough, chances are, i wont keep playing past the first 10% of the game.
So all in all, yes, I agree Sonic SHOULD have stories. Part of the reason I like 06 more than generations is because of the story. Yes, gameplay is better in gens, but given its length and overall it feeling like a glorified fangame due to the story being barely there at all, I dont replay gens as much as I reply Adventure 1+2, Heroes, 06, Unleashed, Black Knight, and Frontiers.
Finally extra point for the people who never played it and just judge based off memes or word of mouth:
I'm an avid Kingdom Hearts fan, and speaking from someone who knows the lore, its only as confusing as you let it be. If you are confused about something, chances are you are either missing something or it hasnt been explained yet. Not the story's fault for your lack of patience for answers or your lack of attention. If you want to understand the story, then stop griping and actually pay attention. Like you understood what multiplication or algebra was before kindergarten. You WILL learn in time, just stop thinking the story is bad because you dont understand yet. Funny enough Sora doesnt understand right away either, he learns alongside you.
ANYWAYS, enough about that. Excellent video @SuperMarioT
when gens was coming out i thought that we would have been able to play as the other classic versions of the other characters
Haven't seen the video but for some reason when I saw the title. All I could think of was a requoting from the Incredibles and probably applies far to well. Here I miss quote, ahem, "Mister sonic doesn't need a story. mister sonic doesn't want a story, and it causes him daily pain." To witch I would respond, "It's what has made sonic stand out from just another plant former and beats out Mario on many levels to most players. Personally I love sonic stories even if I don't like the games. There almost all ambitious and enjoyable. I will watch video essays about them all day long and sometimes do. They are that entertaining to me and the characters of sonics world are fascinating and their motivations intriguing. Sure there are going to be a few misses and one kind of story isn't going to be enjoyed by all. That doesn't change the value or the viability or should inform sagas choice to continue telling stories from here on out. So sorry but even just reading the title I can't agree with you though maybe I will change my mind after watching. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and place me conclusion in the reply to the comment. Sorry it's a wall of text. Didn't intend it to be.
It's weird but I always though that sonic did better in every other media then the one he was born in lol. also glad I actually watched the video and I'm glad I gave it a chance. I think I miss understood the tittle. You were responding and giving it a serious think yourself so thank you for that. I feel like something that would have prevented my mistake was a question mark or at clarification of your pondering in said title but that's just me. Good video.
Appreciate your support & no worries, my aim was the quotations in the title giving an implication surrounding the statement.
Yes it needs a story, now I do think should keep it simple for main games n explore in spin offs
"A guy trying to kill his father by starting a third World War."
That's basically Tekken 6-8 in a nutshell and definitely my favorite game franchise 😉
I bought 8 when it dropped, my first Tekken experience and yeah, I completely get the hype and charm behind it. It's a banger game.
@@SuperMarioT that's a very good title to start off your Tekken experience. Take it from a long time Tekken fan like myself, this is easily the best game in the franchise. You'll have a blast with this one for sure as I am too
I feel Sonic and it's model all need an overall change. We need more serious-looking characters again. Sonic has been looking like something straight out of PBS Kids for years. Bring back the dark stories AND characters! I miss the mystery sonic used to have with the stories. ugh
Tbh sonic stories really important to me it makes character more flash out and make's world alive with sonic stories other than just like "oh boy Eggman doing a bad things again and sonic need to safe the world again" at least sonic is not a simp like mario though
So long as the story is good as well as the gameplay, I don't see why Sonic shouldn't have story elements in the games.
I think the most appropriate would be if Sonic needs complex stories, since games like the classic saga, Generations or Colors, have a very simple story, yet people like those games for the gameplay. When it comes to video games, the gameplay always matters more than the story, however I'm not against more complex stories, but it's not paramount. Many franchises have very simple stories, but it is compensated by gameplay.
Gameplay doesn't have to compensate, story and gameplay can both be good.
@@justiceiria869 That's just in case if the Game has a simple story.
If Sonic doesn’t need a story, then no video game franchise should.
I like Sonic with a story. If the story is as strong as the gameplay, then the entire game is memorable. To me showing Sonic with his friends in a story is a great way to showcase how Sometimes someone like Sonic needs assistances from others who aren't as fast as him, but can help in their own strengths.
I mean, how hypocritical is it that every other franchise is encouraged to "evolve its stories further" or bashed for having a simpler/nothing plot but Sonic is gatekept so hard for correctable mistakes when it could be a legitimate fantasy/sci-fi franchise going off the world and character quantity alone?
Transformers sure does it.
"Sonic games don't need a story anyways, I can't even read." -average sonic plebian
So far the sonic movies have had pretty good simple stories that work for that alternate universe
I don't see why not have a good story attached to a good game, tbh.
I mean, looking like a cartoon character or an Anime Character, or a Real-ass person should never say that a game should be this or that. It's kind off the same idea as "you shouldn't judge a book by its cover" or literally just any virtue signaling thrown around IRL.
It's especially true when it comes to the earliest JRPGs, but since we're talking about the blue blur, you can also just take the Sonic Adventure Stories or Sonic Frontiers for something recent to see that a Story can enhance gameplay. Added context to a bossfight can just enhance the experience beyond ways gameplay cannot, and vice-versa. After all, if music can do that, why not the story too?
I would say story matters, but not as much as the gameplay. A good story is appreciated, but at the end of the day, its just sprinkles on ice cream. Sonic would be just fine as an IP if we had consistent good games even if they had bad stories.
Video games are art. EVERY aspect of a painting contributes to how it's perceived
Even for the game's that don't have much focus on story like Colors, the story and gameplay are tied. The story is about saving the Wisps, which translates to the gameplay.
(Which is amazing in that this integration makes the game worse because it preserves the one thing people didn't like from the earlier games, being that upgrades unlocked later are not actually upgrades but rather key aspects of the moveset you need for a proper run of the stages)
Well, Colors just straight up gives you them when you need them, unlike other games where you have to go out of your way, or do some extra thing to get the upgrades. I think THAT was more-so the problem people had with previous games.
@@Aktedya1-jt7vw It wasn't, that you are limited in your ability to get a higher score until the arbitrary restrictionpoint of *insert storyprogress* is exactly what people are talking about.
I havent heard many people complain about that for either the previous games, or Colors. It certainly doesn't bother me
But Sonic's story' is basically just god dimension travel time travel
Gonna put this out there in hopes of increasing the possibility of it happening
I think instead of an original story or elseworld story like prime or boom, the next sonic animated series should be a DTV movie line retelling the stories of the main games from the Dreamcast Era (Adventure 1-Sonic ‘06). Essentially like how DC comics has an animated movie universe running alongside the Live action ones or the Dragon Ball movies in the Super Era (kinda think DBS should stick to movies personally)
It would be good for Story-fans of the franchise and people coming off the movies who don’t play games as much, no canon issues prime had and we likely won’t see a colors ultimate adventure remake- open to discuss in the comments
While I wouldn't say Sonic *needs* a story, it can always benefit from one. As someone who puts a lot of emphasis on the narrative of games, I think a lot of the replay value of franchises at large are the stories they tell, especially when the gameplay is so similar, whereby if it wasn't for the story, certain games would just be another level set. The stories are what make it worth going back to those older titles in a lot of ways.
Take the Gen 5 Pokemon games for example; people go back to Black/White 1 for the sake of the story, even though the gameplay is very similar to and even improved in Black/White 2. The stories are a big reason why (other than completionism and nostalgia) many people like to go back to older generations to begin with, despite there not being as many Pokemon in them. Compare that to the Gen 4 games, Diamond and Pearl have no story over Platinum (which adds to the original plot as one of its improvements), meaning most people prefer to play Platinum over Diamond and Pearl. I never completed FRLG because there was little to no story to keep me invested in the game in spite of its older, less refined gameplay.
My point is a good story is always a reason to revist older games in a franchise, they add to the experience that is that specific game, one you can't get just by playing another game in the franchise, even if the gameplay is just as good, if not better.
A sequel of the “Mario does not need a story”
Yet had enough to make a blockbuster movie out of... Which I do wonder why Mario gets to have all the story in the world but Zelda and sonuic do not... Like is it because noonme will notice it having one?
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough I don’t see the Mario movie had that much of a storyline
The highest rated games don’t have much story they are praised by gameplay and creativity!
@@therealjaystone2344 It summarized 60 years of plot from all the mario games... Which yes is as much as mass effect or darksouls and not Star wars, Halo or tollken or 40K... But stuill is a ton of plot.
@GreenBlueWalkthrough Depends on what you mean by "Mario games" because the movie barely touched plots and settings from spin-offs which are known to be more story focused than the mainline games (which I personally hope they did, where they explore settlements that aren't just Toads, explore dynamics with characters that are times hinted by the games, or some explaration about why certain aspects like stars are important to Mario's world).
I mean, even the original Sonic 1-3 all had stories, simple stories without voice acting, but stories regardless. What Sonic needs to work on is it's methods for storytelling. Sonic and Knuckles still has one of the best stories in Sonic history because of its minimalism.
Remember that good stories are the things that make characters likeable and not the gameplay. Shadow for example. He became the 2nd most popular character of the franchise after Sonic himself and it's all thanks to his story in SA2 that made people love him. If SA2 didn't have a story, he would've just been a Sonic clone with nothing to stand him out from the rest of the cast and would've been forgotten quickly.
Gameplay isn't everything for a game to be enjoyable
ive always been super sad they didnt continue the trend of SA2. I guess heroes did and that was a good game, but after that, it really really changed in tone :(
Controversial opinion I thought Sonic 06’s story was very Underrated and under appreciated. Ofc sonic getting kissed by Elise is sinful and I wanna die whenever I see it but everything else is incredible in that story. Characters were written very well.
While Sonic stories have been hit-or-miss for me, I always appreciate the efforr they put into them. Even the stories I don't like much have a few instances where character interactions or themes just work. It's one thing I hope Sonic never loses, because he's the only 3D platformer to really do that to such a high level imo (aside from Ratchet and Clank)
Yes he does
I put this in a separate comment cus it’s not related to my fist comment
Anyway. I liked what heroes does that in sonic adventure 2 it was the peak of dark themes in sonic so where do you go from there?
Light hearted but still have a kind of classic sonic like story, Eggman bad sonic stop him. But it still has a good story behind it with metal sonics plot twist at the end so what they should do is make story’s that build up in stakes every game and then calm back down in the next game so the Eggman awakening some old god thingy not feel as overdone because it wouldn’t be consequetive