RSV4 engine teardown, Part 2
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- čas přidán 19. 10. 2016
- This 2013 aprilia RSV4 Factory went bang at COTA with only 2,500 miles of use. After pulling the top end off it looks like the problem was caused by a rod bolt coming loose at high RPM. Go to 16:00 to see wildly varying torque values on the remaining rod bolts.
Thanks to Sena for the Prism camera.
#rideconnected - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I have a 1984 V65 Sabre (1100cc V4), and I can't get over how similar this engine looks to my V4. Nice job on the teardown. Only vid on CZcams about these engines, really.
I'm 2 years late. Been planning to trade in my 09 crossplane for a 2011 V4. Thanks a lot for this video! Read up everywhere that motor oil leak was common due to poor quality gasket used in factory (small issue). But this rod bolt factory issue is too serious. I shall keep my crossplane.
Wise choice. I'm trying to decide between a new R1 and a Duc V4 right now. I love this bike but its the last aprilia I'll ever buy thanks to the awful customer service experienced by friends of mine.
Very informative vid...thank you kindly for the post Shaun!
Thanks for your videos! I'm gonna be doing a valve check and poss adjustment myself and these videos give so much reference i think I can do it
Happy yo help Chris. When you do yours take it slow, be patient and label everything. Twice if necessary!
Awesome videos Shaun ! You rock ! I've watched part 1 also. I tore down my old RSV Mille engine. The cranckshaft bearings gone bad. Got another engine now. Would love to own a RSV4. But I see they're rather problematic. Also love that electric tool with torque metter at the end. Never seen that before !
When the connecting rods and the crankcase have an argument the rods usually win! $$$$$
And its usually a mess. O-:
I believe we call that, in the industry, FUCKED. That’s a super bummer, what an incredible machine these RSV4s are.
Oh! That sounds expensive. Haha! Great video!
Great video
Great Video, Very interesting. Very disappointed to see Aprilia's quality control was/is so poor
Dope videos! I watched part one a two and I've only changed the oil to an engine lol. I ride Kawasaki but always liked the rsv4 because it was the first italian brand I've heard of. Aprila has some nice offerings. Also, the tool at the end is pretty neat. Never seen anything like that.
Thanks.
That's A monday motor built after a long weekend of drinking and sleepless nights.
"Gonna feel a little good so I'm gonna keep on dancing!" "Gonna hold me like you should so I'mma keep on dancin'!" Sounds like the motor was singing to you
Its tough to do work like this without good music (-:
@@ShaunNielsen Haha I was enjoying watching it with music too! felt like I was there in the garage with you
a interesting video , but needed to see the rod and the cap , were they blue ??, i have a lot of race motors that destroy themselves, so its nice to get to the bottom of it ,was the crank damaged by the rod hitting it ?, i have never had rod bolts fall out as while they are coming loose it would have destroyed the bearing then the rod bolts would fail, but this looks like it just fell out both at the same time ????,was the wrist pin broken ?
i just bought a 2018 rsv4rr from the auction with only 2 miles and i took the back spark plugs out necause bike sounded awful. one plug is chewed up bad, bike smokes and is dripping oil out of the exhaust. how does this happen with only 2 miles? display says 80mph max on dash..
sounds like this is a zombie bike that had a manufacturing fault. If it only shows 2 miles it may have exploded during the dyno test at the factory. Where are you located? You may find the only way to get it running again is to swap the motor.
Cool dude. How do you repair the fractured enginge walls? or you just keep the cylinders and swap the block? but seeing that broken piston... must have scrapped the cylinder walls too. :S
Nice video, hopefully more is coming! I suppose rebuilding was not economically ideal, so that the reason why it was parted out? Wondering, how much rebuilding would have cost?
Rebuilding is expensive due to labor cost. I could rebuild my own engine easily, but for someone else paying to have it done (properly) its about the same price to buy a used engine.
Your video steered me away from pulling the trigger on buying a RSV4. What I understood from you video, Apilia has an awesome concept/design of an engine but their level of quality control/execution in manufacturing is nonexistent. I guess being a smaller company, Aprilia was forced to cut corners and it seems they cut corners on the build quality.
Edit* This confirms that the people who post on forums with higher mileage RSV4s and rave that the RSV4 is reliable don't actually ride their bikes but instead baby it its whole life.
Knowing the reliability issues, I still plan to get another RSV4 asap. its not like a japanese bike - it needs more maintenance but it feels better, sounds better, looks better. But aprilia quality control and customer support is terrible. i will be checking valve clearances on my new RSV4 before I start it for the first time.
That's the problem. Their quality control and customer support is terrible. I'm very honest with myself, I know what I am capable of and know exactly my budget that I want to spend on a new superbike (Including safety fund in case of accidents/problems). With that being said, I know that I am not as capable to maintain my bike as you do with yours. I can do the basics like oil change, filter, and etc but I've never torn apart an engine, rebuild, and haven't done any of my own valve adjustments. I understand there is a cost to owning an italian superbike as they are beyond sexy and give you a different satisfaction that no other bikes can give you. BUT, I at the very least expect a certain level of quality control, especially if you are paying $20k+ USD.
For example Ducati 1299 Panigales. They have their own issues but in no way when you tare down the L-Twin you are going to find reversed screwed bolts and shit.
EDIT*
My choices were the RSV4 or the R1M but it looks like I'm leaning towards the R1M now. Of course that is until Ducati releases their new V4s.
re: "Apilia has an awesome concept/design of an engine but their level of quality control/execution in manufacturing is non-existent" History repeats itself, SXV/RXV/450/550 bueller...? anyone...?
Loving the brittney spears playing in the back ground
Hit me baby one more time.
@@ShaunNielsen Like the Big end said to the Crank journal.!! lol.!
@@griffspeed LoL
Shaun I just love your teardowns videos. I got a question for you:
I got a penkel type con rods and Im wondering how’s the torque sequence... my service manual has the other type of con rods which looks a little bigger...
The best thing to do would be to contact customer support at Pankl, or a distributor that sells them. Make sure you have all the details about your rods and use the bolts they came with.
Damn Id be paranoid to forget something when putting it back together lol
This was a forensic teardown of a destroyed motor. If I'd been planning to rebuild it I would have been much more careful with part placement. When doing a repair, all fasteners are packaged and labeled so they can easily and quickly be returned to the same place.
Wow... Hate seeing you go through this. What a mess. Did you find another engine.
VFR - to je jiná kvalita motoru)
I wouldn't even do a clutch replacement on my 150cc myself, and this guy is a tearing down a 20k dollar V4 engine.
Its like anything - start small and work up to bigger jobs. I started out on old car engines when I was a kid.
so Question when putting back the nuts do i need lock tight or just put the back without lock tight (time laps in Vlog 11:03) thanks a lot for video by the way im putting this rsv 4 back as best as i can im taking as much video with i phone because thats all that i have right now but thanks for help i tell everybody about your channel
Thanks for the feedback.
Only put locktight on when the workshop manual says to do so.
Do you think the silicon in the oil pump caused the connecting rod bearing to be starved for oil and spun the bearing and broke the cap off?
There did seem to be quite a bit of bearing material in that pan. It had to start making some changes in sounds before "the big bang" . At track speeds it gets busy though. Biggest thing he's investigating, catosrophic failure like that usually get really slippery real quick. I hope he updates us!!!!
How many oil pumps it has is it a dry sump?
Would it be possible to check /replace the rod bolts by dropping the sump?(engine still in frame)
Good idea Dog, I was thinking about that myself. The bolts are torque to yield so when I get time I'll get some new bolts and lift the bike up so i can check access with the sump off.
00:22, weight savings.
Such a great video. mind if you can share what is the suitable engine oil for v4 engine? thanks & cheers
Hi Rehman, ENI is the best choice for the aprilia.
This is the problem with small-ish bike manufacturers. They have sexy looking bikes at decent prices. However, this screams of a bad install. Why? Because they don't have the super fancy machinery like BMW, machinery that can tighten down bolts all at once to the right torque. Also the extra silicone is poor. Again, major manufacturers would not make that mistake because, things like the application of silicone, would be automated.
I am looking at buying RSV4 but this made me think twice - for a couple of grand more you can get a HP4 and have reliability, power and extra comforts. Still, the rsv4 right now is a bargain, specially the higher mileage ones, which is great because you know the bolts have been done up correctly if it hasn't gone bang! Great video!
Look, I subscribed to your channel because I am researching RSV4s as I'm seriously thinking of getting one for the summer. Now, the nice thing about small/independent bike manufacturers is that you can approach them! So just do that! Phone them up in Italy, ask to speak to the head of PR (Italians speak pretty good English now) and try to get a new engine to be swapped in under warranty (yes maybe it is an old engine but it has no miles). Argue that the video is getting some views - who knows? Maybe they will arrange something nice for you or maybe not. Still worth a try. They will probably ask to take the video down though.
That's a good idea. The owner of this bike (my friend) actually did this. In fact, he used to work for aprilia's parent company - Piaggio. He knew exactly who to contact about this issue and told them the situation; the low miles, the rigorous maintenance and the excellent condition of the engine prior to the explosion. He was told that some goodwill warranty consideration may be possible. Then, they pretended the problem didnt exist and ignored all his attempts to follow up. Dont get me wrong - I love my RSV4. I have the exact same model - my bike was built 140 units earlier than this bike. Lucky for me it seems my rod bolts were torqued correctly. However, someone at aprilia should realize that ignoring problems like this one doesn't make them go away. Customers have long memories and tend to vote with their wallets.
re: "Now, the nice thing about small/independent bike manufacturers is that you can approach them!" yup, this they do to draw you in to ensure you see them clearly and are in no way confused when they FLIP YOU THE BIRD.
re: "However, someone at aprilia should realize that ignoring problems like this one doesn't make them go away." oh sure it does, you'd be surprised what the passage of Italian time can achieve. 7 hours ahead of the CST is like 49 hours in dog years. lol
Like Honda etc.
Great video! Very interesting to watch. Are you going to do a rebuild video? please do.
Sadly no. The bike was parted out. All thats left now is a few buckets of nuts and bolts.
That's a shame. Anyhow a great video. Ride well Sir.
Thanks. More are on the way. As soon as I get time I'll adjust valve clearances.
how the heck do you remember how it all goes back together ??? nice vid
Its really not that difficult. Its like a jigsaw puzzle, it can only go back together one way. If its not right, it looks wrong immediately. And once you've done a simple puzzle, bigger ones look a lot less intimidating.
Shaun Nielsen
Thanks for these vids Shaun!
I'll be buying my 2nd rsv4 next year and I'm a little worried about valves etc!
I'd like to be able to do my own clearance checks/adjustments so it'd be great if you did a vid on it too!!
Happy Christmas
MrMurphc13 thanks Murph. More coming soon, including a KTM engine teardown and rebuild.
Stay tuned for valve clearance check and adjustment videos
The "funny" thing is he dont even have to remember because there isnt really anything to reassamble :D But really nice Video !
Hey Shaun, I think one of my fwd exhaust valves are broken and looking to replace. looking by the video are they appear to be just seated in the top and can be easily removed without any tools? is that so? thanks
I need pictures to get a better idea of what your engine needs.
@@ShaunNielsen hey shaun, thanks for replying, whats the best way to send these to you? also im a novice weekend mechanic looking to ask a few question, seems like the things I want to ask you skipped in the video cheers
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Have a 2013 rsv4 that the chain snapped and broke the chain guard and left a hole on the case. I want to fix this. what would be the best route?
Best method would be to find a used engine. Try to find a 2014+ though, the problems with the valves and springs were fixed on this model.
Thank Shaun engine oil pick up filter blocked by silicone cost failure of lubrications to .? No 2 big end result in over heating it and friction welding between big end and cramp shaft, and also melting the big and next turn connecting nut just ready to spin off from half melting and expending treaties once one nut fall of other one bak off than connoting rod crush and break off together between crankshaft and head . Good to have computer animated picture for that . I believe factory may have miss out one connecting Balt as well if it can be prove you can claim a new bike!
Sorry to hear about this error from the factory. I hope you are able to fix it. piaggio wont cover warranty claims. They are in big legal trouble as a result.
Great Video, Shaun!!
One question: You didn't use any special tools, right? Except for the clutch... Is it possible to teardown the engine and rebuild it without any special tools? I have a RSV4 too and wonder if i need the tools, if i have to repair the engine someday.
Thanks for a short reply! Best wishes from Germany! :)
Thanks. No special tools were needed for this teardown. I think the only tool I didnt have already was a deep 25mm socket, special for some but not everyone.
However, reassembly will require a few tools not in the average toolbox. The cam chain tensioners require a special tool for reinstallation, as do the camshafts.
Why such a variation on big end caps bolts. Someone had an off day in assembly? Lol. Great work. Remaining bolt or part of could have exited at the track out the hole? Nice torque wrench.Wow. Too much silicon or accepted fault?
I think this error is referred to as 'Friday-itis". Someone was in a hurry to get out of the factory at quittin' time. The silicone is a tricky issue though. Use too much and the excess can break off and block oil passages and even oil pickups. Use too little and the motor will leak.
After this happening, is Aprilia worth it? I have a choice between S1000R and Tuono (2018 both models), what do you think?
Thats a good question. At this point I would say the BMW is a better choice due to warranty support.
BMW had a pretty bad case of junk rod bolts on their earlier 1000rr
Shaun Nielsen I just bought a 2019 Tuono V4 two weeks ago. I made the plunge to Aprilia after owning Japanese for the past 45 years. It will be only used for street and roads... I’m in horror to see the bottom end fail of the V4. 😳
My Tuono just went poof! Living here in Mexico so let's see what kind of warranty response I get. In US Aprilia was good to me but who knows down here in Mexico City.
Sorry to hear that. Do you know what went wrong? Let us know what happens.
Isn't rod bolt assembly inspected by stretch and not torque? Thoughts? Clearly bad assembly, bolt metallurgy or bad rod metallurgy.
There are several methods to assemble the rotating components, torque and bolt stretch among them. Regardless of the installation method, if a bolt requires 25% less torque to remove it than all the others theres a clear problem.
Man good luck getting all that back together I would of taken that bike back to the dealer and made them deal with it for sure this is B-S coming from APRILIA
The entire video I keep thinking to myself where is he going to set all those parts.
a clean garage is a sign of a sick mind...
Did you ever find the bolt, or did it get smased to micropieces?
its probably on the side of the track at COTA
Can you get any more power out of the heads by say doing a valve job some mild porting and polishing flow testing ? How about another different set of teams are there another set of cams available for these motors?
There are way too many myths about engine modifications. Check this article on port flow dynamics: www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/motorcycles-and-their-boundary-layers/
Thanks for sharing the process, were you finally able to rebuild it ?
Nope. It was a total loss.
@@ShaunNielsenSorry to hear that.
Hi Shaun, those torques at 16:00 were too much or too little? I checked it in service manual and there is just 15 Nm (11.06 lbf ft) +
40° + 60°.
2 were correct, the third was way too little. the missing one was no doubt too little also which is what destroyed the engine.
that silicone may have starved it for oil and killed a bearing or caused it to expand and the bolt to fall out even easier on the rod...new BRZs are doing it now in 2022
yours yet to blow , how u take care the maintenance of ur 13' rsv4 ? any tips?
With 7,000 miles I was lucky mine never exploded. Especially since every one of those miles was at the track.
I change the oil every 200 miles, and check it for metal contaminants. I also check the valve clearances every 1000 - 1500 miles. (they needed to be adjusted every time)
With the amount of damage it would make more sense to just buy a salvage motor.
Great videos mate. I take it that engine was a throw away given the damage to the casings?
Thanks. Yes - this engine was scrapped when piaggio declined the warranty claim when the bike had done 2,500 miles and was only 6 months old.
Hi! Where can I get the torq meter? :D
This is the one: www.ebay.com/i/292259950761?chn=ps&dispItem=1
Looking expe$$ive!!!! Bummer!!!!!
The other one you're looking for is all the debris at the bottom
My god how can certain people be able to work in such a caos
This is machine Ducati Panigale RR ?
may I know what brand is that torque wench?
It's a SnapOn brand wrench. I posted a link on the video I just uploaded about the tools I used for this job.
From your previous comments and torque variation, I am drawn to the conclusion that these engines are hand-built. Is that indeed the case? If so, it seems more a curse than a blessing and I'll stick with something a little more consistent!
All the manufacturers build their engines by hand. Do a search for Suzuki engine factory.
Some brands are more reliable than others. Aprilia is known for ignoring tolerances for their valve clearances on this engine. Some owners are unlucky.
wondering what u have done to ur bike to have this kind of damage.........while it looks new.......do u think it's quality issues?....
It was definitely some sort of quality control issue with the connecting rod bolts varying in torque from 64 ft-lbs to 78ft-lbs
Hi sir.. Thanks for yours video..I plan to buy a used Aprilia rsv4 factory 2012..what do you think I should check to make sure the rsv4 I want to buy is in good condition??
Thanks before
Nice tools and great workshop, but how can you work like that?! What a mess..... I can't work like that, I need it to be organized. I hope you are not planing on using that front tyre again? After you put an rag with oil stains over it, why is that tyre there during an engine teardown?
Anyway I do admire the way you carry on with this bike, and best of luck when you (have) rebuild it.
And thank you for showing the inside of one of these engine's. Aprilia should have left the engine build to Rotax.
Thanks for your input. this whole bike was sold off in parts. I actually used that front tire to teach club racers at COTA and other tracks. Having an oily day touch it doesn't hurt it.
Even if it is a scrap engine this video gave me anxiety lol... just your garage is out of control man, but very interesting though Specially having the same bike! 👍
I had a little too much going on in my little shop at the time. Shortly after this i went to a few factory training courses and started working as a shop manager at a dealership. I only work on my own bikes at home now. Unless friends need help with theirs.
You have such a nice toolkit and then you make this mess! And i assume you know the engines quite well so you're not worried to scatter the parts like that?
He had no intention of putting it back together.
That bolt was not torqued to spec thats maybe why it came loose
How do you find everything to put it back together haha the place is organised chaos
a great man once said... "a clean garage is a clear sign of a sick mind"
So what was the possible reason why it failed?
Mistakes made during manufacture
Grenaded
Guys why not just replace the entire engine instead of going through all of the rebuild? Sorry if it’s a dumb question just trying to understand. Great video and very informative, interesting to watch
Hi Claudio, not a dumb question. I didnt rebuild the engine - the owner just wanted to know why it failed so early. Poor assembly at the factory was the answer.
Shaun Nielsen that’s insane! Did the owner get warranty on the engine due to you proving bad Assembled block? Great video and thank you for responding to my question
Unfortunately no warranty. Aprilia is bad at providing warranty support.
how did that engine got to suffer such a massive damage?
Poor attention during assembly at the factory )-:
How it ended up? Did u purchased new cases?
We ended up selling off everything
Ok thanks. Have you bought a new race bike or you remained without one?
Just curious, who is willing to buy a broken motor? Parts shop?
many different people bought pieces on ebay. I still have another RSV4 with 5,555 track miles on it now. Its been much more reliable than this one.
Oh ok, great :) Looking forward to see other maintenance videos from you, so relaxing to watch :)
great vid.
Are you planning on doing a rebuild vid?
Unfortunately no. The customer didnt have the budget for a rebuild so the entire bike has been stripped and parted out.
Thats a shame.
Since the bike had only done 2500 miles, wasn't the customer entitled to warranty ?
Despite doing only 2,500 miles the bike was almost 3 years old, and just barely out of extended warranty. The owner was furious Piaggio wouldnt offer any form of good-will warranty - especially since he used to work for Piaggio here in the US.
That is sad. Piaggio should learn from Honda. My CBR blew a valve rocker arm, and blew the engine. Despite being out of warranty and covering only about 5000 miles, the guys from Honda were visibly upset. Let alone replacing the engine, they also offered a buy back of the old bike for a new with the price difference being insanely small.
Hi there surely a new motor should last longer than 2500 miles,I’ve just bought a V4 tuono with 11k on it should I be worried,thanks for the vids 👍
What year model is it? The 2013 or older models have known issues with valves and valve springs which can cause erratic valve clearances. Its not such a big issue with street bikes. Make sure you get yours checked if they havent been already.
Shaun Nielsen mine is a 2014 with full service history so hopefully it’s ok,thanks for your advice
2500 miles and no warrenty?
Correct. And the owner even worked for piaggio for a time. Still no warranty.
Did you send this to Aprilia?
Do you really think they would do anything? I suspect someone at Piaggio would have seen it by now.
True. Aprilia quality control is piss poor. They might as well move that factory to China. My 2012 factory had 3 tank changes and many other issues. Thank you for your videos. This benefits others who are mechanically skillful.
Did someone shoot the engine?
It actually did look like that. Only something broke out of this one.
*Knock Knock* - *Who's there* CONNECTING ROD!
@@URBANENGINEER Why cant engines understand that us motor heads don't like knock knock jokes lmao
so would it be correct to assume, that if buying a bike outside of warranty, a tear down to check everything would be prudent?
That's if your mechanically inclined, and able to do it yourself.
Most brands of Superbikes have threads online about who has the highest reliable mileage. Never seen that on any Aprilia forums.....
Thus this means all 2013 had problem like this Shaun?
Andres Aguilar i’ve been told by an aprilia/piaggio employee that all rsv4’s from 2015 or earlier have valves and valve springs expected to fail in less than 10,000 miles if ever used on the track. street bikes ‘should’ last longer.
Shaun Nielsen thanks you but I was referring to bolt of crank shaft that I believe it was the culprit of blown engine. And since youve mentoned valve and valve spring , 15 earlier model owners must replace valve and springs ? Just Need an adjusment?
Was this engine ever repaired?
No - it was a total loss the moment it exploded.
So what's the fix entire engine casing new 1 maybe used I doubt but you never no man what a nightmare
No fix possible - too much damage. Engine is trash.
6:42, Espresso.
LoL. Not one I'd like to drink. Mmmm, smells good though.
Given what you said about other RSV4 having the same problem, did Aprillia said anything about it?
Is this engine on warranty?
What you have showed in this video is unacceptable
Aprilia/piaggio deny all warranty claims. Company policy. This bike was even owned by a former piaggio employee and was within the warranty period.
It's why I switched to Ducati
Hahahaha Aku ingat kapcai jee pecah enjin
Absolutely shocking build quality so nearly a great product destroyed by awful build quality and a factory who couldn't care less after they have your money.
Exactly.
I get what you're saying but look at it from the Aprillia employee's view. One day you're in gainful employment, the next you're out of work. Maybe this is why the race engineers posted all their technical research on the web? In particular, their expansion pipe designs. Think you'd be pretty miffed if you got the sack through no fault of your own.
gir nya di beri rantai tarikan lebih bagus
9:35, like an explosion at a breast implant factory.
Please from one mechanic to another tell me you didnt rebuild that. That motor 2500 miles or not is completely not worth it. Soo much metal in that bottom end. I know for a fact every cylinder was scored up bad. There is way to much to replace on that. Its a partial part motor at best. Can you even find that motor used?
Not to worry, this motor was scrapped. I still have it to use as a demonstration tool on how cam timing works. Used motors are available but hugely expensive due to such high demand caused by issues like this.
How u know that every cylinder was scored up bad?
Made in italy
Loose bolts doesn't seem right, there is no way to tell if that was an issue pre or post explosion considering how much damage was done. The bolts could have been torqued loose after the damage.
Many things about this engine didnt seem right. I've seen other engines that had similar catastrophic failures (a ZX-7R, several Ducatis, an SV650 and many, many dirtbikes) and none had rod bolts come loose.
@@ShaunNielsen so what were the failure diagnosis for some of the other bikes* then? If it's an anomaly to other failures, it would make it less likely to be the origin of failure.
,🤣🤣