Audio Episode 06 - The Case of Boba Fett and the Hollywood Western
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2022
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Episode info:
In this episode, we investigate The Book of Boba Fett and discuss how this new Star Wars series pulls many of its themes and motifs directly from old Hollywood Westerns, including a few regressive tropes popular in that genre. Friend of the show and professor of clinical law, Carl Williams, joins the conversation.
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Show credits:
Audio production: Jonathan McIntosh
Intro music: Simon Stålenhag
Outro music: Rick Lopez - Krátké a kreslené filmy
It's kind of ironic that the story they clearly wanted to tell, but for some reason didn't (whether it was budget or the pandemic or lack of vision or just fear of backlash) was kind of already there as a subset of the show. It was Cobb Vanth's story. All of the things they wanted Boba to have and failed to deliver - the connections to a people and place, the high stakes, the real sense of threat and powerlessness against this syndicate and having to get people to work together, it was all there.
They should have centred the whole thing around Vanth's struggle against the syndicate, and had Boba play the role of the reluctant ex bounty hunter who just wants a quiet life, but whose help the town desperately needs. This is practically a staple of the type of old west movies the show wanted to copy. They would have sidestepped the issue that Boba is still technically a crimelord by the end of the show (and those nods and bows he was getting in the street were likely more out of fear than respect).
They could have used the Tuskens in a better way too - still used the show as an opportunity to showcase some of their culture, but they wouldn't have needed to murder the whole tribe to create the impact for the story, since that would already exist.
Anyway, just wanted to say really enjoyed the podcast and the breakdown of the show - great stuff as always,
Much of the general concept of Boba Fett as the kind of character he's portrayed as in modern media definitely owes a LOT to the 1998 novel The Mandalorian Armour, which was the original telling of the story of how he survived the events of RotJ, and which established a bunch of backstory to him which fits this kind of mould, stuff which later inspired his characterisation through media such as the Clone Wars series which built on that framing with the bounty hunter relationships he developed following his father's death.
A lot of fans were quite invested in the decades' worth of novels focusing on him, which had established a pretty solid character for him with a lot of depth, the pretty broken man who was constantly dragged through major events, who missed his daughter's entire life and managed to screw up being a grandfather even as he tried his best to reconcile with his granddaughter, so it's understandable to see them disappointed at the portrayal he gets in a few hours of screentime vs thousands upon thousands of pages of evocative writing.
im a prequels baby and when i complain abt star wars usually the ppl that understand my discomfort are other like fans from my generation who are also people of color. it is really gratifying to see like fans from like jon favreaus generation be able to critcize and unpack the racist and hypermasculine tropes in tbobf and star wars in general
The thing is: Boba Fett in the Clone Wars was often shown as a genuinely good hearted kid who was trying to make a career in a morally ambiguous field (bounty hunting, assassin). In the Clone Wars, he was frequently shown hesitating to kill, showing mercy, making sure his comrades got paid, and generally trying to do right by those around him. I think there was a version of this show that was mostly flashbacks that showed Boba growing up both before and after his father's death and trying to balance his good heart with the realities of the galaxy he lived in. Dave Filoni highlighted a difference in leitmotifs they used where a gentle singing was meant to be Boba's angelic good theme (meant to be him trying to be like his father) with a discordant harmonica tune being the twisted, dark side of him coming out (being Aurra Sing's influence on him). They even sort of reference it with Cad Bane's appearance in the Book of Boba Fett; in a deleted plotline of the Clone Wars, Cad Bane mentored Boba because Bane had a rivalry with Jango and wanted to definitively show who was the better bounty hunter. That episode would have ended in a duel where Cad Bane and Boba would have dueled and shot each other in the heads (Boba being saved by his helmet, which would be forever dented from the duel). But the fact that Cad Bane survives says to me that Boba got him medical care after the duel because he is not like Cad Bane and is his father's son.
What fans are really angry with is the retconning of Boba Fett from the novels. Which is a dumb argument to me because those novels were basically fanfiction and while the shows and movies can take some things from the books (Kylo Ren being basically Jacen Solo), they also shouldn't make new content with the intent of just being a live action adaptation of what's already been made.
Fair point. On the other hand, I don’t think Boba taught them survival, he gave them tools and training that they didn’t have before. It was an equal interchange of knowledge. Boba didn’t become a leader he was more of a diplomat between the tribe and outsiders. Tuskens still had agency. They also taught Boba Fett the strength in community over isolation. Fair points on indulgence in retributive destruction. Sloppy writing on a larger scale definitely, but the interaction with Tuskens and showing their humanity was a high point for me.
I’m so pumped you’re doing a podcast! This was such an engaging discussion to listen to ❣️ I’m so glad there’s conversation about the broader narratives at play in the boba fett series and in the Star Wars universe at large. So interesting! 10/10, will tune in to the next SW analysis
I hesitated to listen to this episode because I didn't watch The Book of Boba Fett (nor am I familiar with Star Wars lore outside of the 9 main film series) but I'm glad I did listen. I *have* watched westerns (though it's not a genre I gravitate towards), and plenty of adventure films with tropes found in westerns, so I didn't feel like I was out of the loop in this conversation. Another great podcast recording! I love having this podcast to tide me over between video analyses.
Just a few points I would like to add:
- I did emphasize with the Tuskens as Boba found them dead. Because we spend a long time with them, grew to understand them from their prisoner's perspective, we got to know different characters with their quirks, and fought with them against people who seemingly hunted them for sport. Maybe I misunderstood you, but in my opinion the show continues Attack of the Clones and works to de-stigmatize the Tuskens from savages to humans.
- I recently read in a comment from an indigenous person, that the idea of subtitling natives can be seen as a way of taking away their language, eradicating it. Because with subtitles you don't need to try to understand them on their terms. The show than shows us Boba learning how to communicate with them without taking away from them.
- During the episodes with the Tuskens I also perceived what the show was doing as using the (white) saviour trope, and the comparison with Dances with the Wolves is justified. But later they clearly show the dire consequences of Boba's involvement. I think that was a clear statement about what can happen to indigenous people if outsiders try to force them in a direction they aren't used to go.
- It was indeed bad that he was the one negotiating with the Pykes on behalf of the Tuskens. I agree with almost all your other points.
- The mob (relating to the protection money thing) aren't just bullies. Despite the all the violence and the patriaechal crap, the mob is also a community. Yes, it is ingroup vs. outgroup, but the mob protects its community also from even bigger threads. I think the Sopranos showed that quite good. And Book of Boba tried to do that as well.
Me and my girlfriend really liked the show, despite its flaws. I mean, the Mods? Fennec? The Rancor? The Gamoreans? :') Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I liked them all and felt something when the experienced hardships. Of course they could have been more developed though.
PS: All your opinions are discredited, Jonathan, for liking Ewoks. JK ;) But that show belongs into the dumpster.
Looking forward to your next video essay!
How did I not know you did a podcast?! Subscribed immediately!
I'm just here to say that you can speak and make peace with the tusken in KOTOR. You can even learn that tatooine once was vibrant with life until it was terraformed by the rakata (i know, i know it is legends canon now)
Great episode!!! I like to write and this is not only fun, but super insightful and useful for the mind. Thank you so much!!!! Can't wait for more!
The point about people being mad that Boba was captured by the Tuskens and wasn't dominating everyone he came into contact with seems particularly laughable when you look at other, similar characters stories.
Look at Clint Eastwood in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. It doesn't make his character worse or less cool or less badass that he got captured by Tuco and led around the desert for a while. That hardship is conducive to good storytelling and character building.
I don't really agree with the "no face and interchangeable" argument. The serie is very consistent with the attire, face mask and personality of at least the chief, the teacher and the kid. All without showing their facees or make them speak in english. Just because not everyone has a face or speaks english doesn't mean they don't have a personality.
85% of Boba's character is Fan Fiction.
I didn't realize you were releasing a podcast! I'm so stoked
Dudeeee, you can't just keep dropping 1 hour segments. I have stuff to do today :-(
Love your content!
This was a fantastic listen, and the podcast is great at holding over your followers until the next video essay. I do want to note that at the beginning of this episode you speak about Boba's badass reputation amongst fans as of they are the ones who developed and that's why the new version of Boba was disappointing to many. However, many Boba fans pulled his badass nature from the Star Wars books, as there were a few that focused on him and his children. Now, this is just a minor detail that doesn't affect the rest of the episode, I just wanted to add that information in.
Commenting on the whole ‘we don’t really care for his gang’ thing, I kind of agree.
It’s not that I didn’t care for them, it’s that watching other media has made me realise how deep and meaningful relationships in series can be.
Star Wars has seemed to lack any emotional weight after the last Jedi (maybe a reaction to backlash), and it’s making me kind of bored.
There’s so many interesting side stories they could establish and explore, it’s literally a universe of possibilities, and they avoid anything meaningful at every turn.
It’s all callbacks to tired old tropes, and not a lot of substance.
The End of Clone Wars Season 7 seems like the notable exception, especially if you have the full context (as in watching the previous relevant seasons/episodes for Clone Wars) for the ending of Season 7, however, for the most part I could agree with your take regarding the lack of emotional weight, generally speaking.
cant wait to listen to this
Great video! I picked up on racist undertones that made me really uncomfortable when I watched this series. I love how you've unpacked this topic.
Are you guys ever gonna do a video/podcast on reylo and how toxic and misogynistic it is? I read a comment of yours years ago where you said you were working on one. Really curious to hear your thoughts on that
Maybe I'm just not jaded enough, but I do care about minor characters despite them being under developed. The idea that a character needs to development so that their suffering can be tragic always felt egocentric to me. A character represents the idea of a person and when, in real life, I hear about a stranger suffering, I do care about that. Now I'd care more if, that stranger was a person I knew, in the same way I care more about developed characters in media, but there is always a baseline of empathy.
As to the whole feudalism thing. "Authoritarian with a heart of gold"-characters always feel like a necessary evil kind of role. I'm no history buff, so feel free to give me examples, but I don't know any democracy that developed inside a power vacuum, they usually seem to happen through a united revolution or a monarch seeing where the wind is blowing and giving up large parts of their power in favor of a minor role in a more (not fully) democratic system. There could still be a discussion on what better methods of bringing order there are as opposed to replacing the last feudal lord, but that would feel quite out of place for what the show is.
I do fully agree on the indulgence in violent retribution, though that doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the show.
I just realized you have been posting your podcast episodes on this channel but I've not been seeing them in my subscriptions tab. Was that intentional?
Yes. Don’t want to flood people’s feeds with audio only podcasts when most subscribed for videos.
All of the audio episodes do not show up in the subscription tab.
Very interesting podcast, thank you!
Are you still doing that episode about colonialism in boardgames?
The podcast has been excellent so far, however will you be returning to video essay form soon?
Just releases a full 28 minute video essay last week :)
The worst thing about the series was that it completely underrated and underused Fennec who would have been an interesting character
You should watch the100 because there's a people who at first you'll think will be barbaric natives but then are more and more introduced to them until you see that they actually have fantastic culture with fascinating aspects and a language created by David J Peterson who also made Dothraki and Valyrian for GoT
How are you recruiting your podcast guests/experts?
Right now the guests are people who have consulted on our video essay scripts in the past. Every video script is reviewed by activists or media critics before recording. The guests may change in the future though as we slowly expand the project.
@@PopCultureDetective Thanks for replying!
That makes sense, you did mention in previous eps that your guests were contributors, but I didn't know if they all were.
Actually, before listening to your podcasts, I didn't realize you received any outside consultation/input to your video scripts. But that's great to hear, and makes sense because all of your videos are so thoughtful and thorough. Anyway, I've enjoyed hearing discussions with those folks who are contributing to the videos and who are various kinds of "experts" with different perspectives/backgrounds.
I guess I've also been curious about yourself - how you got into analyzing media through a sociological lens and ended up collaborating with people in academia. It's interesting hearing about your process!
Sorry for the essay. I just love your work!
Am I the only one not getting notifications for the audio episodes? This might be my mistake but I swear I don't see them in my subscription feed either
It's not you. We are not publishing them to the feed. Don't want to overwhelm subscribers with audio-only videos when they signed up for video essays. The best way to find out there's a new audio episode is to follow the podcast.
I get really frustrated sometimes at, simply put, how mean Star Wars fans are. Like, there are genuine critiques like this which are both interesting/fun and necessary, but a lot of the critical comments are just so mean-spirited and half the shit I see is recent stuff about what SW is “supposed to be” and complaints about “forced diversity.” You make a really good point when mentioning a lot of the anger comes from the expectations that people have built up around SW. When they don’t get what they want, they throw a fit.
Nobody mentioned they used Boba as genetic material for the clones, right? Or am I thinking of some other character? His dad maybe?
Getting to a more (gender-)equal society is not about giving women "masculine" traits and jobs and vice versa, but to rethink which values are more beneficial to humankind: violent, "masculine" roles (soldiers, policemen) or nurturing, "feminine" roles (nurses, teachers).
100% I really wish they would have given the Tusken Raider real personalities... and not just kill them off + not holding on these bad tropes. And yes, these should have been really survival bad-ass.
Same for all other characters in this show, except the Mandalorian Characters.
Boba Fett was the most boring character in his own show - I'd liked the idea of his transision from lonely bounty hunter to more then that. But .. the writing/implementation was terrible.
Oh and
Yeah it like cake with no meat look great but taste bland