had a Nduro Xduro 8.0 with that motor and although it was super powerful the battery life was shocking even when using the lower modes, I think the new Bosch motor is now the best allrounder which will be in my new 2021 Whyte 180RS V2 arriving next week, happy new year guys!
We had a old enduro motorcycle saying. The worst thing you can have is too much power and the best thing is a bloody good rider.Same applies to Emtbs as we don't need more power. 60 Nm to 90 Nm torque is more than enough for FUN FUN FUN . Rider weight is much more relevant than bike weight. E=Mtb²
Been waiting for this one! I thought that the TQ HPR 120S would not only beat, but shatter the 104 record. This track continues to show a great demonstration that a technical climb such as the 104 is just that ... technical, shown by your many attempts and range of times just one bike alone. Saying that, I would be ecstatic to own any one of these E mountain bikes! I've ridden bikes most of my life, and now at 65, I would greatly welcome the ability to climb up to ride some of the great trails I loved. Cheers
I would say that you don’t need a bike that powerful, the weight is a heck of a lot to lift into a 4x4 vehicle, impossible for a roof rack so a rear rack is the only realistic option. If you come across a locked gate you’ll never get it over it by yourself. Also with a hard tail you’ll save a lot of weight if you don’t need full sus. Do get an eMTB though, I just bought my second one for my 70th birthday. I come home like a small boy all covered in mud - great!
Před 2 lety+1
There is a new competitor in the woods, the new TQ in the TREK Fuel EX-e... Hoping you continue this series now that the motors evolve more and more.
Great video Steve, love this series, it reminds me of the "star in the reasonably priced car" TG section. Would be interested to see how each bike compares rather than just the motor, as you say, its about the whole thing, not just the motor. So a few of the bikes with the Bosch / Yamaha / EP motors.
Looking at Steve’s apparel and the weather/ conditions of the hill it looks like these tests were done a while back and for dramatic effect you would normally keep the best till last so I fully expect to see the Rocky Mountain to make its bow soon. Then folk will understand why Jim Buchanan choose RM as his new sponsor.
@@vandazler67 Rocky mountain looks a good bike on paper very powerful motor,but I hear they have quite a lot off issues with the motor and the spider clutch🤔🤔
@@adamsmythe7070 Show me an Ebike that doesn’t have a few niggles. I’ll grant you for a few RM riders the spider clutch has been an issue,along with water ingress in the iwok controller, but for an overall package the RM has to be one of the most natural MTB feeling bikes on the market. If you get the chance ride one and you’ll see. A friend of mine bought a Levo last year and ended up swapping it for a Merida as it was never out of the repair shop, so even the mighty Levo’s have recurrent mech problems.
I looked up the specs on the TQ HPR 120s motor, and made some calculations. TQ rated this motor at 920 Watts of power as de-rated to 80% due to losses throughout the drive system at their claimed efficiency of 80% (which is quite good). The specified120 Nm torque value is at about 90 rpm cadence *after* those losses! Depending on the torque curve (I didn't find), the motor should produce more power at higher cadence, likely in proportion to 90 rpm. Of course, this actual power output will be controlled thru the standard software to comply with top-speed regulations where the bike was purchased, so performance will be great only below its speed limit for supplementing pedal power. I'm guessing that a hacked version will be capable of much more than 1kW, especially with the bike speedometer bypassed! At least one competitor sells an EMTB motor they claim can be setup (or hacked) for authorized private trails to provide about 2.5 kW, so I predict that the TQ might be even more powerful, considering it compared in rotor/winding size and gear reduction! This is a wolf in sheep's clothing. The most powerful EMTB installed motors of other brands, for comparison, generally produce less than 750 Watts at best.
I personally find the Bosch Performance CX line 85nm and 790 watts peak power much more enjoyable for everyday riding I have tested both The TQ HPR 120S really gives a good pull if u are riding in high to peak rpm but its very inconsistent at lower rpms and i found myself more exhausted than with the CX line May be just the software calculations but i wouldnt recommend unless u only purchase it just for fun on the mountains
Some amazing power on that motor, but also some serious weight on the bike even considering it is an ebike. That was one of my concerns really, how it would impact the range of it as I do some long rides. Think this bike would really excel at lapping a place such as Eastridge getting to the top quicker and then hitting the descents. Great video, love this challenge concept and putting the motors on the same climb ⚡👍🏼
I have a M600 from bafang and a Bosch Gen 4. The 120 nm bafang is a little more powerful, not as much as you would think, the Bosch is a much smoother and quieter.
Hiabike Flyon !!!! Mate has had 1 for a year now had nothing but trouble with it. Always having to check what battery he has left on it, that's without the other gremlins he has had with it. we all got the Bosch Gen 4 , no comparison on motors. Bosch all the way.
Please can we have a test of motors/ batterys tested maybe on a small loop... Be great to see maybe on a trail mode on various bikes and motors/ batterys what the actual range is... Same as this test, similar conditions and same great rider Steve ; )
idea!!!! ik have a cube with an bosch cx 4 th gen i did about 1400km's on it and it does not maken so much noise as it did in the beginning make an embn episode about that !
Put the Sachs/BMZ motor 112 nm up against the TQ the sachs is very smooth and quick to respond to peddle pressure and is very efficient for such a powerful motor .
Wonder what this amount of torque going through the drivetrain does to the components longevity. Chains, freewheel pawls etc, especially of using the lower cadence approach..
I have a levo carbon comp but would love the next generation levo to have 120 n/m and a 1kw/h battery. That is about the limit really and would make the levo a true go anywhere bike for all day epics. The only thing that stopped me buying the haibike flyon is the weight and length of the chainstays. It would be incredibly difficult to repeatedly lift this bike over Styles and gates. The Levo is about as heavy as I’d like to go for repeated lifting.
Someone did a test on tar seal and the TQ was definitely faster than the Levo. Either way, as long as the handling makes you smile on the down it’s all good.
... your ride looked so easy and the TQ should have won easily and beat the Brose time !!!!!!! Hope that Specialized didn't sponsor the defeat of the TQ ...
Yes, or the Orbea Rise. Jones said that the lighter weight off the Levo beats the power of the TQ. So what about these light weight E-MTB’s? Let us see what Steve can do. BTW, great video again. 👍🚵🏽
I hear you... it’s kind of sad that cycling comes down to ‘which motor is the strongest’. I’m not a ‘hater’i have an ebike but I could never give up my trail bike and gravel bike. It’s just not the same riding and achieving without the help of a motor.
The motor fitted to this bike (Haibike FLYON series) is called the TQ HPR 120S. It is designed and manufactured by TQ Group, a Germany technology company. In general everyday speaking, we just call it the "TQ motor", instead of calling it by its full name, "TQ HPR 120S" all the time. It's just like how we say "Bosch Gen4 motor", instead of calling it by its full name, "Bosch Performance Line CX Generation 4" all the time.
Hi! Great Video! Do you know somebody who's able to repair a TQ? I love the engine, I have already 7000 Alps kilometer (hard uphills) and sometimes it hear a short grinding noise. Any idea? Thanks so much for help. Watch my latest Vid on my Channel, at 4:30 (4:38) you can hear it. Thanks.
@@MrTarati Not yet. But I don't have a haibike, I have an M1 Sptzing Evolution. I think M1 wouldn't have stayed with TQ for almost 10 years if the engine hadn't proven itself. As far as I know, Haibike regularly changes engines, but they always keep 50% from the previous year and 50% new in the range. 2023 some Bosch models have recently been replaced by Yamaha. I actually see more disadvantages than advantages in this. Imo Bosch is superior. But Haibike has had both Bosch and yamaha at the same time for a long time. Flyon are a special case. I suspect haibike was overwhelmed with their plan and therefore dropped the Flyon series.
had a Nduro Xduro 8.0 with that motor and although it was super powerful the battery life was shocking even when using the lower modes, I think the new Bosch motor is now the best allrounder which will be in my new 2021 Whyte 180RS V2 arriving next week, happy new year guys!
Such a cool video, so much detailed info and great editing and cinematography.
Specializes still the number one, but "at the end of the day" the most important is to have lots of fun
We had a old enduro motorcycle saying. The worst thing you can have is too much power and the best thing is a bloody good rider.Same applies to Emtbs as we don't need more power. 60 Nm to 90 Nm torque is more than enough for FUN FUN FUN . Rider weight is much more relevant than bike weight. E=Mtb²
It's the most relevant point of all Rob for sure....
Been waiting for this one! I thought that the TQ HPR 120S would not only beat, but shatter the 104 record. This track continues to show a great demonstration that a technical climb such as the 104 is just that ... technical, shown by your many attempts and range of times just one bike alone. Saying that, I would be ecstatic to own any one of these E mountain bikes! I've ridden bikes most of my life, and now at 65, I would greatly welcome the ability to climb up to ride some of the great trails I loved. Cheers
I would say that you don’t need a bike that powerful, the weight is a heck of a lot to lift into a 4x4 vehicle, impossible for a roof rack so a rear rack is the only realistic option. If you come across a locked gate you’ll never get it over it by yourself. Also with a hard tail you’ll save a lot of weight if you don’t need full sus. Do get an eMTB though, I just bought my second one for my 70th birthday. I come home like a small boy all covered in mud - great!
There is a new competitor in the woods, the new TQ in the TREK Fuel EX-e... Hoping you continue this series now that the motors evolve more and more.
Time to work for it, Levo SL :-) Great series of videos, some of the best on EMBN!
Glad you like them Eric!
Great video Steve, love this series, it reminds me of the "star in the reasonably priced car" TG section. Would be interested to see how each bike compares rather than just the motor, as you say, its about the whole thing, not just the motor. So a few of the bikes with the Bosch / Yamaha / EP motors.
Great video thank you
I would like to see next the new updated 90 Nm Panasonic Motor GX 90 in the 2021 BULLS E-Stream EVO AM Fit 29 and 925 Wh Battery
Try the Rocky Mountain 👌
Second that ⚡ was going to add that on my comment but thought would be a bit biase 🤣 maybe the first sub 1 min 👍🏼
Looking at Steve’s apparel and the weather/ conditions of the hill it looks like these tests were done a while back and for dramatic effect you would normally keep the best till last so I fully expect to see the Rocky Mountain to make its bow soon. Then folk will understand why Jim Buchanan choose RM as his new sponsor.
@@vandazler67 Rocky mountain looks a good bike on paper very powerful motor,but I hear they have quite a lot off issues with the motor and the spider clutch🤔🤔
@@vandazler67 I seen pinned tv review on the Rocky 👌but I am sure I read n the comments that his Rocky is broken with a spider clutch 😂😂😂
@@adamsmythe7070 Show me an Ebike that doesn’t have a few niggles. I’ll grant you for a few RM riders the spider clutch has been an issue,along with water ingress in the iwok controller, but for an overall package the RM has to be one of the most natural MTB feeling bikes on the market. If you get the chance ride one and you’ll see. A friend of mine bought a Levo last year and ended up swapping it for a Merida as it was never out of the repair shop, so even the mighty Levo’s have recurrent mech problems.
I looked up the specs on the TQ HPR 120s motor, and made some calculations. TQ rated this motor at 920 Watts of power as de-rated to 80% due to losses throughout the drive system at their claimed efficiency of 80% (which is quite good). The specified120 Nm torque value is at about 90 rpm cadence *after* those losses! Depending on the torque curve (I didn't find), the motor should produce more power at higher cadence, likely in proportion to 90 rpm. Of course, this actual power output will be controlled thru the standard software to comply with top-speed regulations where the bike was purchased, so performance will be great only below its speed limit for supplementing pedal power. I'm guessing that a hacked version will be capable of much more than 1kW, especially with the bike speedometer bypassed! At least one competitor sells an EMTB motor they claim can be setup (or hacked) for authorized private trails to provide about 2.5 kW, so I predict that the TQ might be even more powerful, considering it compared in rotor/winding size and gear reduction! This is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
The most powerful EMTB installed motors of other brands, for comparison, generally produce less than 750 Watts at best.
I personally find the Bosch Performance CX line 85nm and 790 watts peak power much more enjoyable for everyday riding
I have tested both
The TQ HPR 120S really gives a good pull if u are riding in high to peak rpm but its very inconsistent at lower rpms and i found myself more exhausted than with the CX line
May be just the software calculations but i wouldnt recommend unless u only purchase it just for fun on the mountains
What a beast of a bike
7:40 almost sounds like a gang of wild turkeys gobblin away lol
Great content! But I'm really wondering about the time of the bosch as it should usualy be quiet compareable to the Brose motor.
Some amazing power on that motor, but also some serious weight on the bike even considering it is an ebike. That was one of my concerns really, how it would impact the range of it as I do some long rides.
Think this bike would really excel at lapping a place such as Eastridge getting to the top quicker and then hitting the descents.
Great video, love this challenge concept and putting the motors on the same climb ⚡👍🏼
Incredibly good bike
I have a M600 from bafang and a Bosch Gen 4. The 120 nm bafang is a little more powerful, not as much as you would think, the Bosch is a much smoother and quieter.
Hiabike Flyon !!!! Mate has had 1 for a year now had nothing but trouble with it. Always having to check what battery he has left on it, that's without the other gremlins he has had with it. we all got the Bosch Gen 4 , no comparison on motors. Bosch all the way.
I do love Brose S-Mag ,then TQ120 but with bigger battery pack like 1000Wh
Please can we have a test of motors/ batterys tested maybe on a small loop... Be great to see maybe on a trail mode on various bikes and motors/ batterys what the actual range is... Same as this test, similar conditions and same great rider Steve ; )
idea!!!!
ik have a cube with an bosch cx 4 th gen
i did about 1400km's on it and it does not maken so much noise as it did in the beginning
make an embn episode about that !
Put the Sachs/BMZ motor 112 nm up against the TQ
the sachs is very smooth and quick to respond to peddle pressure and is very efficient for such a powerful motor .
sweet well done now you need to rename the Vid and hill 103
Q factor? The TQ looks THICK and WIDE! And is it reliable? Thanks for the vid - there have been suspiciously few reviews since the FlyOn launched.
Wonder what this amount of torque going through the drivetrain does to the components longevity. Chains, freewheel pawls etc, especially of using the lower cadence approach..
I have a levo carbon comp but would love the next generation levo to have 120 n/m and a 1kw/h battery.
That is about the limit really and would make the levo a true go anywhere bike for all day epics.
The only thing that stopped me buying the haibike flyon is the weight and length of the chainstays.
It would be incredibly difficult to repeatedly lift this bike over Styles and gates.
The Levo is about as heavy as I’d like to go for repeated lifting.
Someone did a test on tar seal and the TQ was definitely faster than the Levo. Either way, as long as the handling makes you smile on the down it’s all good.
You guys need to test giants smart mode it is crazy effective on technical climbs
Hi Steve, can you tell us what motor set the original 104 time thanks in anticipation.
Can you do the test on a Levo SL , you have plenty of them too. We know it will be slower, but by how much ?
Can you try this on one of the 80-90lb bikes with the bafang ultra m620?
The dude who did the fastest lap did not analyse the track like this. If he would do it he would beat his record time.
Try the SLAB on it! PLEASE!
La Pierre Zesty and Specialized Levo SL up next?
Is this as quiet as the TQ motor on the Trek Fuel EXe? 😉
Maybe a 29 in rear or maybe a lower power setting?
how about the CUBE ebike
The TQ in Fire road is winner, you have the mountain with 180mm is best ,uphill more fast
... your ride looked so easy and the TQ should have won easily and beat the Brose time !!!!!!!
Hope that Specialized didn't sponsor the defeat of the TQ ...
When are you going to try the levo SL?
Yes, or the Orbea Rise.
Jones said that the lighter weight off the Levo beats the power of the TQ.
So what about these light weight E-MTB’s?
Let us see what Steve can do.
BTW, great video again. 👍🚵🏽
@@ErLo202 yeah, the lightweight may make it quicker, it's not all about the motor. Can see these lighter bikes just having the advantage.
Next test Lapierre Glp-2......104
IT MAKES ME WONDER....about the Levo SL, how bad can it be? .not enough torque, not enough power, not too heavy ...just the price tag
7:30 here it starts
Any dual motor bikes for uphill climbing
no, having 2 wheels spin at the same time would be horrible.
Our tandem has two mid-drive motors. It is a beast uphill!
Belle vidéo , belle présentation , mais ce vélo n’a aucun intérêt vu le prix pour le différence de performance. Bravo pour le test 👍😊
The Levo is lighter indeed, but there is a carbon version of this bike that's lighter than this one?
I want this 🚲 please any one can tell how can I buy it
Your kidding ,right ?
Levo rules such a bad ass bike have 2 🤣🤣🤣
I still say you put a fat tire on the back of that. Emtb bike you will have a faster time.
Power plus traction!
Great powerful toy but on extra power it's able to drain battery in about 30min More torque requires more power.
I have climbed similar stuf on a normal (mid range XC) bike.🙄
Taking probably double the time, twice as tired.
I hear you... it’s kind of sad that cycling comes down to ‘which motor is the strongest’. I’m not a ‘hater’i have an ebike but I could never give up my trail bike and gravel bike. It’s just not the same riding and achieving without the help of a motor.
@@tamasvarga67 yes exactly. It makes cycling less of cycling and more of motoring. I do own a e bike as well but not to replace my "bicycle"
This is the only motor possible to fit an oval chain ring on the market
Where are all my Flyon fans :))))))
TQ motor? What is it?
The motor fitted to this bike (Haibike FLYON series) is called the TQ HPR 120S. It is designed and manufactured by TQ Group, a Germany technology company. In general everyday speaking, we just call it the "TQ motor", instead of calling it by its full name, "TQ HPR 120S" all the time. It's just like how we say "Bosch Gen4 motor", instead of calling it by its full name, "Bosch Performance Line CX Generation 4" all the time.
Hi! Great Video! Do you know somebody who's able to repair a TQ? I love the engine, I have already 7000 Alps kilometer (hard uphills) and sometimes it hear a short grinding noise. Any idea? Thanks so much for help.
Watch my latest Vid on my Channel, at 4:30 (4:38) you can hear it. Thanks.
Put 29 on and rip it, just do it!
Anything less than 1 or 2 seconds difference is due to the rider. Can’t be totally consistent.
should of used High not Xtreme high is better power delivery
I can hear the chain cringing
hahaha unbeatable specialized xD
Too much dribble..... For a good example of how it should be done go to Flow mtb.
nice. just a shame the tq120 is so bad in reliability
Why should it be so bad?
( question from an owner )
Yeah it's a bit worrying that Haibike have moved away from the TQ120 to Yamaha these last couple of years...
@@raziel8321have you had any problems with yours Raziel?
@@MrTarati
Not yet.
But I don't have a haibike, I have an M1 Sptzing Evolution. I think M1 wouldn't have stayed with TQ for almost 10 years if the engine hadn't proven itself.
As far as I know, Haibike regularly changes engines, but they always keep 50% from the previous year and 50% new in the range. 2023 some Bosch models have recently been replaced by Yamaha. I actually see more disadvantages than advantages in this. Imo Bosch is superior. But Haibike has had both Bosch and yamaha at the same time for a long time. Flyon are a special case. I suspect haibike was overwhelmed with their plan and therefore dropped the Flyon series.