Lightweight eBikes are Pointless!?
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- čas přidán 13. 03. 2024
- Who exactly are these lightweight ebikes actually for? Can they climb steep stuff? And how do they feel on the trails? Featuring Mondraker Neat, Unno Ikki, Trek Fuel EXE and Scott Voltage, powered by TQ eBike HPR50 motor systems.
ETHICS, DISCLAIMER and TRANSPARENCY: This video is Sponsored by TQ. TQ hired me to create this collaboration piece and produce a video for on my CZcams channel, and is such labelled as a paid partnership on CZcams. - Sport
The biggest issue with lightweight e-bikes is the price. When you buy a full power one an extra kilo doesn't matter that much. So you can easily go for an aluminium frame and cheaper components. However with a light weight e-bike you're much more inclined to get the lowest weight possible, making everything way more expensive.
Or at least that's how my brain works.
Yeah that makes sense.
Totally agree,my Ducati weighs 55 lbs and to be honest it doesn’t feel that heavy to me,my wife likes really light ebikes so everything is carbon ,weighs 45 lbs and costs as much as an apache helicopter.😀
For the last 2 years I've wanted a sl emtb. Coming from a regular pedal bike I only wanted a little help on the climbs. After seeing prices for the sl e mtb's, I decided to spend less money for my first emtb. In 6 years or so from bow, I may look at getting 1 cause they will be cheaper and will be even awesome by then.
I hear you, 13k for an ikki, come on. But it doesn’t have to be that way. My haibike Lyke came in a 18.1kg with a few mods at cost £4600 brand new. These elite SL models are beautiful, don’t get me wrong but you can do it for a lot less and get the same results. Thinking about it the FAZUA system has more power and a bigger battery 😂😂😂
Price isn’t a problem. Maybe you chose the wrong career.
Lightweight e-bikes are great for strong riders who already have MTB skills. I have been racing XC MTB and gravel for a long time, and on the MTB, I have always had to compromise between weight and suspension. I recently got a Transition Relay, and between my weight and FTP, it can actually feel overpowered. However, now I have a 160mm suspension that has me climbing and descending over things I never could in the past. And I don't feel like I am riding a motorcycle, which is key for people who are used to riding featherweight bikes. Bottom line, I don't think mid-power bikes are the best bikes for the weaker riders but rather for people who have been riding a long time and are looking for that +1 "bike,". I would also say I don't waste your money on shaving grams, it simply does not matter, and it is nothing more than the marketing guys playing into our race obsession. I have a GX build and it is perfect.
Totally agree. I recently got a turbo levo sl, otherwise same story (even got the gx build).
Agree, now at almost 60 doing a couple of 5,000ft elevation rides per week was getting a bit much for me with my Cotic FS, along with gravel & road rides.
So I got a Kenevo SL for enduro-type rides while keeping the Cotic for trail riding.
It's brilliant, and even though now most pals (some +20 years younger than me) have got full-fat bikes, I've still no issue keeping up with them.
And to +1 about the "shaving grams", after 2500 miles the 12spd XO drivetrain is now dead, replacing with a Shimano 11spd LinkGlide. A bit more weight but an entire drivetrain (inc shifter & mech).is cheaper than just an XO cassette.
Another in agreement here. Those of us with some history on a mountain bike gravitate toward a bike that retain some the characteristics of an analog bike. I bet some research would show that the full power customer base is skewed towards nuovo mountain bike riders.
I'm a Road / Gravel / eMTB guide.... (it's my job!) and I wouldn't swap my fullfat eMTB out for anything!! I can climb 20,000ft plus per week on my road bike...in the past I would then have to do it on my ordinary MTB....and I'm not getting any younger (61) - I simply gave up ding MTB guiding and added the e to my ads...I get all the fitness anyone would ever need from my road/gravel bikes... and just enjoy my days off ripping around on my fullfat eMTB (home made!) Up until I built my eMTB.. I was doing the full mix of guiding weekly for folks...and it was killing me!!
I've owned a Fuel Exe 9.7 for about 1 year and sold it.
It's a very nice bike, however I had no one to ride with. 99% of my friends have full fat ebikes and the small motor and battery just can't keep up.
You can't really ride steep climbs as well as you can with regular ebike so that also makes it hard riding with friends.
As far as handling goes the bike still doesn't feel like a regular 14kg enduro bike.. the weight is noticeable.
Basically the SL is a whole new category that is not like regular bikes and not like full fat ebikes.
I sold it to get a full fat ebike instead so I have more options to ride with.
Riding with friends is overrated
You need more friends. My whole neighborhood has LW e-bikes
@@jokermtbI agree. I ride by myself 90% of the time or my dog
I’m opposite… sold all other MTBs except my EX-e. I love riding with others but to me it’s no different regardless, not everyone is gonna be able to keep up at same pace every time, even if everyone in group has same bikes.
I'm trying to cull the herd!
@@jimsteinway695
That climb looks so easy on video haha... Can we just take a moment to appreciate that climb was WAY steeper than it appeared 😂😂😜😜
Of course it was.
It is pretty steep even on a e-moto it’s a struggle slightly
It may have been steeper than it looked but I do think if you'd have dropped the gear down and given the motor more torque with your legs you may have not taken 7 attempts.. but also maybe that's not the point of the video.
Would be great to see how exactly the full-e-bike would handle that climb ;)
rule of the thumb.. video always makes things looks easier 2.5x than really what it is. lol
I actually like the extra weight of my 23kg full power ebike. The extra weight generates more grip and more speed/confidence in downhill chunder. For me, an ebike is about getting you up the hills to enjoy the downhill fun.
There for me that's for sure, Ive been riding MTB's since the 80's and the SL's are just the ticket - I'm riding the Rise carbon at a ticket price below £5k - Great power to weight ratio at 19kg and 60nm - Ive done back to back rides against my analogue Yeti and the rise is way more fun and that all I ride for "it's the fun factor" and I'm still fit if not fitter as i'm out more often.😀
they’re*
Being able to actually bunny hop trail bits using the same effort as I do with my acoustic bike is why I like lightweight eebs (like an Orbea Rise M series).
the suspension does the work not you
@@anonymousone6075 😂😂
it does if you try to pop a wheely etc you push down first and then pull up with the forks rebound helping you out. same for bunny hops @@oliverbourne9599
Hey suspension! bunny hop me over that while I stand on the cranks like a sack of concrete.......errrrr? Never tried that before!@@anonymousone6075
Try the gym
I ride my LYKE lightweight eMTB and think it's the best thing since sliced bread and the only bike I need, just pure agile poppy exhilaration. Then i ride my full power bike and think it's much faster most of the time, way better at climbing and just as fun on the downhills, and the lightweight bike is underpowered. Then I ride the lightweight bike again and love it... Hopefully that answered the question.
Dream ebike garage is a Full Fat and SL?😅
Great video, love my Rise. Did Snowdon on it last year. Epic. I would love to see you do that climb on the full power, SL and an analog bike so you can show the difference between the three.
Thanks for the video. I like pedalling and used to ride heaps more than I do these days but I appreciate the gentle hand of god assistance that a lightweight eMTB delivers on a climb. Everywhere else it just feels like mtb! I’ve owned a full power eMTB and I was not a fan. I moved it on.
I have the Trek FuelExe and I like the TQ motor. I ride up to 2300 metres in altitude when I'm on the lowest setting. For me, the decision in favour of the bike with TQ was because it feels natural and you hear practically nothing.
Just serviced my sl & been riding it around for a bit.
Jumped back on my hard-tail today.
Boy does it fly in comparison !
Good video Rob !
I own a Pivot Shuttle SL and absoutley love it. I use it mostly to explore new trails when I go to new places. I can do many more miles to explore. Then I go back to the trails with my Switchblade and ride. They are a blast to ride.
Having started on MTBs in the early ‘90 first hard tail then full suspension my Levo SL is the closest I can get to that experience - it gives me the power and endurance that I now lack! It brought me back to mountain biking. If I just did bike parks and steep technical stuff I’d go full fat but I still really enjoy cross country and exploring.
I gave you a thumbs up for that realistic crash xD 3:53
Light emtbs are for some people no doubt...but it is a very small piece of the emtb market. Just buy a full power bike with a smaller battery if you want lighter weight. One of my bikes is an Intense Tazer MX Pro. EP8 (85nm), 504 battery, full carbon build. Very light for a full power emtb. It's one of the best riding bikes I own. I run single track in the midwest USA. Never an issue going any where with it. Battery life for me is easily well over 3 hours and I'm on full boost with the motor 99% of the time.
got my second sl last year, its on ebay now as im fit enough to ride my normal bike after 6 months on it. My FF levo is still in my garage and used for uplift esq riding. The SLs are so niche, its for a rider who wants to continue normal mtb but isnt fit enough to ride the distances.
Im a fit rider on a normal, so when i go on my electric i want full power fast flat out hit all the trails etc. If i was a one bike garage it would still be a normal but! if i was a one bike emtb garage, i think it would be a SL as i still enjoy getting a workout in. I know alot of people will be smashing "you do on a FF" into their keyboards, but its not the same type of workout in my opinion.
Great video rob, camera work looks good! I think i saw that will greenfield was helping on this shoot? might be wrong.
I've recently gone from a full fat Giant full e+1 which I enjoyed from 2018-2023. Lightweight/low power wasnt an option when I bought it. Now I have a Lapierre E-zesty AM Ultimate and it's absolutely amazing. The lower power and snaller battery dont really matter for how I ride and the fact I can remove the battery and motor on the fly means I have an analogue bike if I'm going somewhere with truck lifts.
I always found that with the Giant, I would return home with no less than 50% battery and rarely used full power. And it weighed 25.5kg.
The Lapierre is about 18kg or 15kh without the battery/motor.
I appreciate the disclosure this was a TQ commercial, but I will also say those power units look awesome, great video mate.
The point is to let us older mountain bikers ride with our 30 year old son who has a VO2 max of a Tour de France domestique. I don’t want a motocross bike to go up the trail I still want to work at 65 years old
Brilliant review as always 👍👍
I have a 38.5lb Orbea Rise and have enjoyed it alot. I definitely struggle to keep up with my buddies with full-power eMTBs, but I like the feel of the bike and the ability to carry it over unrideable / super steep sections is really good. But I have a lightweight 26lb XC analog bike also and that climbs really well (just not as fast) is overall more fun then the E.
As I was thinking the future might be a light full sus eeb You've now made me realise that my combination of Kona Process and haibike hardtail for long fire road exploring is the best option for me! and for the cost of one I could buy a spare bike or 2!
I recently got a Transition Relay 170mm and it's epic! Had a full powered Pivot Shuttle XTR V3 before and love this bike way more. 60nm, 430WH battery. It has an extra boost mode which gives you an additional 100W for ~10 seconds which really helps for steep sections.
I honestly don't miss or really notice that much less power vs my 85nm Pivot now. The ~5kg weight saving definitely helps of course. Plus I'm only 68kg which probably helps too.
@@davefellowsYou did the right decision. For my the 60Nm of the FAZUA RIDE 60 is the sweatspot. You can climb every uphill what is possible to ride.
I also have tried the TQ Motor, but that 50 Nm compared to the 60 Nm is really a big difference.
TQ did a great job on the design, the display, the controller and electronics. Hope they will boost up their system to 60Nm as well.
Nice Landscape! ❤
I just went through ebike shopping for my wife. She’s a fairly casual rider, not huge km, but i wanted to get her an ebike so she could keep up a little better and go further. Looked at both a specialized levo and a Scott lumen. She far preferred the lumen, despite the power advantage on the levo. She said that the lumen feels like a normal bike overall, where the levo just felt heavy and bulky for her. So, for her case, the lumen was an easy choice. As for me, I have a few non-powered bikes, but my ebike is a kenevo :).
Looove my Fuel EXe. Rides like a regular bike but doesn't suck to climb.
I need to experience a lightweight, e-bike Or mid power. My full power bike is extremely awesome and I think the reason I would not buy a mid power bike is I want to experience that full power blastability. Happy Trails 😊
With a disability, a light weight ebike is perfect. I had a full powered ebike but it had loads of power and stability, but heavy as hell to lift over the tailgate and sluggish. The Fuel exe, is light, nimble and still keeps my doctors happy, keeping my heart rate below 135 bpm. Now i keep up with my friends, but still feel like i have a workout. I also dont get the “hangover” when i pay the price for overdoing it.
Yesss! "F$ck* and "Sh$t" are words often used on my SL fails too Rob. Also, more gratifying on tech climbs successes. But it is also awesome using the same profane verbage when I make "impossible" climbs on my full power. But agility of the SL is hard to beat for the "fun parts" like descents or twisty singletrack (w small sidehits)🤟
I noticed you finally learned to put the seat up and use it for traction.
I only have room for 1 mountain bike, so I have the lightweight version (Fuel EXe). If I had enough room for 2 I'd have a analog and full power. The Fuel EXe gives me a bit of each. I do enjoy that the Fuel EXe still makes me work for some stuff, but still allows me to ride farther than I would otherwise, and ride back to back long days without getting wiped out.
Hi Rob! I enjoy your channel a lot. I used to ride Levo Gen2 for 5 years and now I own Trek EXE and I love the way this bike descends , however I must say the TQ motor is not very efficient and consumes a lot of battery power uphill. I"d choosen the EXE because you can swop the bettery easily. In my opinion most SL ebike's batteries are just too small. Buying Unno or Kenevo and be able to ride just for a couple of hours sucks. Unless you can easily change the battery I don't see the point to spend the money. Range extender is an option , but it adds 3 pounds to the bike and leaves no place for the water bottle.... My point is : let the manufacturers instal larger batteries or design frames with an easily removable battery! Cheers
Agreed, I've yet to meet a SL rider who doesnt ride in some down tuned settings. I saw one the specialized reps out and even she had it in a microtune toned down percentage and shes very light.
@@leavemealoam I don't. I use race mode settings. I ride techy trails which require you to put in some work. I haven't used all the battery. Forgot to charge it once and still had 5% left. Granted, I rode fire roads in Eco mode the day before. It all depends on how you ride.
I tested (briefly) a Trek Fuel Exe. Loved that if felt just like a regular bike in need of a diet. Didn't like that I couldn't detect much in the way of assistance. I also tested a full Levo - I couldn't wipe the grin from my face.
I ended up with full fat. Damn it's heavy, but I can feel the motor working - it's like being 10 years younger, fit, and 20kg lighter!
The alternative is bikes like
I'd love to see slightly bigger batteries paired with TQ motor. Until now all manufacturers offer only 360Wh and range extenders are not the option for everybody.
It would be nice if manufacturers could get motors and batteries separately. I'd get something with a TQ, but I'm not interested in a 360 wh battery with it.
Steep stuff, like what you're on, could use an adjustable fork. If you could drop the travel down by 40-50mm that would be much more doable. The great thing about light eBikes is that you can put super-grippy (and heavy, slow rolling) tires on them and not pay a penalty. Also, you can run cheap, durable, but heavy chainrings and cassettes. What's a few extra pounds when you have assist?
Also, a simple single pivot design is fine. A small loss of pedal efficiency can be offset by a cheaper and less expesive frame design that's optimized just for the descent.
They could've made the Ikki so much better looking but those are all amazing bikes!
The bikes just keep looking cooler and cooler. I wish I could buy more. My levo '22 SL is almost (not quite) outdated these days at 20 Kg.
Light ebikes, with some adjustment like what bosch do with the sx(more power than the tq ), will be a good choice for riders with goods skills
Full power are great for riding trail and enduro but crap for jumping
Light ebikes will be a good options for good riders who want only one bike.
You can trail riding, free riding, going a couple times at the bike park..
Just use a full e-bike and turn the power down if you want to work hard. That is what I do. I'm still riding my 2016 Hai bike and it is great.
I have had full power E MTB's and also the Trek Fuel Exe. I'm a heavier rider, and I prefer full power. They go faster and you can ride longer. My Fuel Exe uses up an entire battery to go to work and back, about 20 miles total, on full power. My full power MTB boasts higher speeds, way more power, and I could do 40 miles on a charge under medium power level. I'm glad that I have both, but if I were to pick a daily rider it would be full power.
I own a full power 24.9 kgs ebike that give me endless smiles for miles.
I demo few lightweight Ebikes and did found the ...weight to on with my normal enduro, DH mtb. Easier to jump too.
Now which one i would choose and keep ? The Full Power of course !!!
I am getting used to the heavier weight and the lazy attitude for jumps, but Boy, i ride fast and drift a lot many corners.
Coming from a background of MX and Enduro motorbikes, it feels lighter than my Husqvarna , easier to place it where I want.
I think the point of those SL bike is too sell Ebike to those who don t want an Ebike at the first place,
Let me explain, Dude X is fed up to be out of breath, no legs to power up and pissed off by a ebiker overtaking him with one hand.
For fear of missing out, naturally the dude X wants to keep up and wants to taste that new bike revolution and Cadence !!
You get me ? so Brands X,Y,Z discretely make up that gap, power on tap with normal aesthetics and light battery. no big belly
At the end of the day, i run out my full power battery, many times coming back on limp Mode, i became an animal pedaling high cadence and pushing boundaries of Range that i never thought i would do at 53 years old. Flat out all the time ! turbo or not.
Sl vs Full power, no compromise here....I ride, i don t play. FP all day.
I own a full power 24.9 kgs ebike that give me endless smiles for miles. 😃😃😃👌👌👌
My GT Current in its present set-up is probably around 26kg so it's right at the top end of eMTB weight. I never find it an issue when I'm actually riding it but if I ever have to lift it over a gate or put it onto the roof of the car it becomes a major challenge
at 5:42 when u grabbed the bike in defeat, I thought you were gonna YEEET it down the hill :D
An important part of the decision in regards to full power vs light weight to consider is horses for courses. In order to access some of the best off the beaten tracks, you have to sometimes climb super techy knarly long climbs that the light weight bikes are not suited for.
The half power light weight e bike class certainly fill a gap. I think it's silly to compare when the real question you should ask yourself is what is the right tool for the job at hand?
That’s a sensible attitude….
I have an SL because it suits my needs but fully appreciate that it won’t suit others. I spend more of my time mucking about sessioning stuff and it takes the sting out of climbs but does t feel like a tank on jumps and drops. I get way more runs in than I do on my Nukeproof Reactor.
I occasionally ride my wife’s light weight ebike. I’ve found that it helps on a climb like this (maybe, who can really tell on video?)..to not be in the lowest gear. Be on the highest boost mode, but leave yourself a gear or two to drop sown to, and don’t be afraid to stand up out of the saddle.😅
Orbea rise still the best one, top model under 16kg. Shimano rs motors locked to 60nm give a lot of help and feel natural. Plus the 360 or 540wh battery, great bike
Shimano RS EP6 and EP8 having a bunch of problems, they are not reliable.
Yeah, I considered buying the Jam2 SL 8.8 but for less money and 3kg difference I bought a full power EMTB… wouldn’t mind owning one though but I also need to buy a car 😊
For me, SL E-bikes are for people that are relatively fit riders, who prefer to have just one bike. A high spec SL E-Bike can cost as much as two bikes: a “decent” carbon pedal XC Bike + and a “good enough” aluminum Full Power E-Bike.
In my case, I opted for a Santa Cruz Blur C TR + a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp alloy. The Santa Cruz is a joy to ride, so light, playful and nimble. The Turbo Levo is a bike that can be lots of fun when in full power mode but also an incredible training device, that can get you to work very hard. I use my e-bike also for training purposes, using it most of the time (when training) with the motor powered off ….and in these circumstances you can get an INCREDIBLE workout, once you get used to pedaling a full-fat (55 pound) e-bike climbing long uphill sections.
Once I get back to the Santa Cruz….it feels so incredibly satisfying to ride, especially going uphill!! The Turbo Levo can also be incredibly efficient when using lower power settings and using your legs as if you were riding an SL E-Bike….a few months back I took my Levo at “Cruce del Istmo” (Panama), a 76 mile long ride, mostly on unpaved roads with a total ascent of 7570 feet; once I finished, I still had 48% of battery life left…while spending 80% of the time between HR Zones 2 and 3.
In other words….for me, being able to enjoy both bikes, that ride so differently, keeps alive in me the joy of riding. And heavy e-bikes can have an enormous training potential, if you also ride (or race) on a regular Mtb.
Happy riding,
Alessandro
Crestline with Bosch race motor here
I just love my specialized turbo levo sl and my Trek e-caliber. I can use with the motor off or on. I doubled my range. I cant do the ssme thing on my Specialized Turbo Levo, once the power is off, its impossible to keep pedaling.
Brilliant! Can you tell us how these bikes pedal once the battery does run out? Is there a noticable resistance? Or is it then "just a heavier analog bike" for the last few meters till you're back home?
There is no noticeable drag from the motor once you go over the speed limit or have the motor switched off, I'm surprised Rob didn't mention that, as it's one of the main selling points.
I often ride my Rise M10 with the power off on the flat. There is a slight motor friction and of course you can feel the extra weight from a normal bike, but it's not too much for a moderately fit rider.
You wouldn't want to pedal a full-fat without power.
@@Veyron1967 good to know, however that one has a Shimano Motor and not TQ, right?
@@Sun0faBeach1 Yes, an SP8 RS I think - bike's in the garage. The TQ motor seems even smaller and quieter and I'm sure the resisitance will be similar or even less. I carry an extender if I'm going on a longer ride but you can easy pedal to the car with no power on slight climbs with a little bit of extra effort.
Would have been nice to see the Simplon Rapcon PMAX TQ as well in this test and hear about your feedback. ;-)
Hi, I am very positive about your videos. Can you tell me for the TQ engine what are the parameters of assistance, power, torque, hold-up for each level of assistance? Well thank you. Mateo
Excellent video and realise this was sponsored by TQ but I would like to have seen you attempt that climb on a non-ebike as well as a full fat ebike for comparison. I can fully see the attraction of light weight ebikes though, just not for me I'm afarid.
Personally I’m a big fan of the lightweight e-bikes.
I’ve ridden a friend’s full power and I didn’t really like it, mainly because of the weight which I found really noticeable on jumps and drops. It was really fast up hill, but it just felt heavy all of the time. I’ve also got to drive to riding spots so transporting via a car was a big consideration. Humping a 50lbs plus full lower bike around was going to get tiresome very quickly for me.
I ended up with a Kenevo SL and I love it; it has just enough power to take the sting out of climbs which means I’m getting more runs in locally and it’s light enough to easily chuck in a car and jt feels like a normal bike, just faster. I’m aware that the range is limited but most of my rides are maybe four hours or so because life gets in the way.
Still Kenevo feels so good ;) 180mm and full power - I just love turbo mode
I’ll have to agree with you Rob have a Wild and a Range full power bikes Took a high end Turbo Levo Gen 2 for a ride had exactly the same problem as you not my piece of cake. But then I am 72 not interested in a SL. ❤
I want a motor strong enough that I can smoke a cigarette going up hill.
If I actually smoked
Then buy a motorbike
@@kubami5543 I’m buying the Honda XR150 dual sport because electric bikes aren’t progressing fast enough and the price isn’t going down enough for my expectations. It’s around 3K. The price is equivalent to a lower grade middle of the road mid drive electric bike. But it will go further and faster. I’ll still have my 2018 Rad rover for when I feel like going slower.
Even with a 20-30% profit margin most rear hub e bikes shouldn’t cost more than 1.2K. Even direct to consumers rarely offer that price
@@kubami5543 I’m buying the Honda XR150 dual sport because electric bikes aren’t progressing fast enough and the price isn’t going down enough for my expectations. It’s around 3K. The price is equivalent to a lower grade middle of the road mid drive electric bike. But it will go further and faster. I’ll still have my 2018 Rad rover for when I feel like going slower.
Even with a 20-30% profit margin most rear hub e bikes shouldn’t cost more than 1.2K. Even direct to consumers rarely offer that price
@@kubami5543 I’m buying the Honda XR150 dual sport because electric bikes aren’t progressing fast enough and the price isn’t going down enough for my expectations. It’s around 3K. The price is equivalent to a lower grade middle of the road mid drive electric bike. But it will go further and faster. I’ll still have my 2018 Rad rover for when I feel like going slower.
Even with a 20-30% profit margin most rear hub e bikes shouldn’t cost more than 1.2K. Even direct to consumers rarely offer that price
Problem I'd there two dear , I was lucky enought to pick up a 2nd hand trek fuel exe 9.5 for a bargain but when it came time to move it on I couldn't afford any of the brand new light/mid weight bikes so ended up having to go full fat 🤷♂️
You’ll never fail that hill again!!😅
My Levo SL will lift the front tire on the lowest gear on a steep climb, its not a power issue for me, just can't keep the front tire on the ground and keep control, not sure what was happening on the climb or what a full fat would do different. Love my SL in general, full fat basically can do double the elevation while weighing 10 lbs more.
The trouble with lightweight is you can't keep up with your mates on their full powers. If you're a bit unfit and don't have any mates though they're ideal.
one our friends is super fit and he cant keep up on his SL (climbing only) unless we slow down quite a bit.
But if you’re on an SL and all of your mates are on normal bikes, they can’t keep up. 😂
Looking for downcountry/trail eMTB that resembles a conventional analog bike, with a sleek design rather than the bulkier eMTBs. An uphill king that can handle descends and technical terrain. Something with a powerful motor. While I'd prefer it to be under $6000, I understand it might be a stretch at that price point. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
C'mon Rob ................ I've literally just bought a Voima 😂
🤟
Hi Rob, could you tell me the Garmin model you talk about in the end of this video, and secondly I dont have seen any video on your youtube about the santacruz heckler SL , could you tell me why?thanks
Hi. Most Garmin Fenix / Epix watches will pair to this bike. Personally I use the Epix Pro - it connects via ANT+ and will appear as a sensor on the watch. If you use the watch to record a ride, it can then capture all your power information from the bike (as well as log the rides and upload to Strava etc). I really like this feature!
Thanks Rob
20kg with decent battery (5-600) with enduro geo and travel (fox 38/zeb) is gunna be the shit! Don’t think we are there yet….
Nice analysis! Good thing you didn’t smash your phone trying to go up… 😅
One thing I wished you'd touched on is how the TQ motor feels when it's switched off/your battery is completely drained... as I understand it the TQ has very little drag compared to some other motors, which would be a useful bonus if you had run out of battery range during the ride home.
fwiw. I think for a lot of conditions (particularly in the UK where there are not huge elevation changes), 50-60Nm is probably enough for most people... but the main issue is that these 'Lite' bikes also have smaller internal batteries in a effort to keep the overall weight down, so if you want genuinely long range you have to use an additional range-extender battery, negating much the benefit of having a lighter bike in the first place.
Personally I'd rather have a full-power (85/90Nm motor) bike with a larger battery, and run it in 'eco' if I want more range/more of a work-out, but with the option of full power when you need it, together with the [internal] battery range to get you back home again once you're tired.
I'm looking forward to riding a bike with that TQ motor though (and the new Specialized SL with 50Nm) to compare.
Lightweight emtbs for the win!
My XC pedal bike's light weight makes it a joy to ride, and I get a rush when the full power ebike zooms up a technical climb. But the Fuel Exe? Meh... kind of a boring compromise. Where this bike does excel is stealth which helps here in the States with our confounding mish-mash of capriciously enforced ebike regulations. I just hope TQ continues to develop its interface. The motor power tuning is great but the ap allows for 10 different display pages on the bike yet only gives six options to choose from. Why oh why isn't a trip odometer an option? It just seems like TQ got 90% there and then stopped developing.
Love my Fuel EXe. I didnt want to be pushing 70 years old and having to man handle a 55+ pound e-MTB on & off my my bike rack.
For Any TQ motor owners that are weight conscious and/or like minimal cockpit like me, heads up the remote can be removed and power settings toggled from the 1 button on TQ display! 🪶🤓😎😁
Love my simpler EX-e 9.9 with no wire nor cables!!
Good old Orbea Rise is still the king!
It’s a fantastic combination of ‘just enough’
They have had it right for along time, just need to make a more capable version of the frame
Those failed ascents were almost entirely from issues with technique and suspension setup.
Standing and grinding feels productive but it's not. You'll notice his successful climb was fully seated. That's because the power delivery was smooth and responsive.
He also kept losing traction. That means he didn't have enough weight on the rear wheel. Again you can't be over the rear while standing.
The suspension clearly wasn't compliant enough for a technical climb. Sure softening up introduces pedal bob but it gains you compliance which equates to traction.
Hope that doesn't sound too much like a dig but I don't think anyone should take away from this that the bike was barely up for the task.
I have a hardtail and a full sus. I always,always enjoy the hardtail more despite the reduction of capability in janky rough tracks, big drops, jumps. Its like acoustc vs electric or walking barefoot on the besch vs in flip flops.
Ive actually stopped riding the full sus as smashing ovet bumps isnt really appealing to me. All depends on what you value
Thing is if these bikes are only 3-4kgs than a full fat I'd take the full fat. If you want to save system weight the best, easiest and cheapest way to do this is to lose weight yourself.
I know, I know- funny that people don’t see this. I’m a WW2 aviation buff and think of my 26 kg turbo Levo as a Corsair or a P-47. My 9 kg road bike is a Zero.
And half of the weight saving just comes from a smaller battery. then they offer you to buy a range extender for 500 euro (160wh!) with the cells, they just removed beforehand.. marketing at its best 😂
I love my full power Kenevo and I like the idea of lighter e-bikes but I don't like SL e-bikes, specially if a rider plan to use battery extender all the time making the SL e-bike having almost the same weight of a full power e-bike
This really comes down to how strong you are naturally. I have a Transition Relay and am finishing 10%+ higher than my full-size counterpart with a 700W battery. And that is not with me babying the ride for range. Strong legs plus a lighter bike means no need for extenders. Then again, the Relay has a removable 5lbs battery, which means it is realistic to throw one in a pack. Now I am way beyond the range of a full size, strong legs or not.
😂😂 the super dramatic music in the climb
Great informative video dude. Lightweight emtb is the way to go for me, I love that satisfaction of actually doing some work to get to the top of a hill.
TQ is subpar to Fazua 60nm motor and they will only improve torque number on lightweight bikes.
Not everyone wants a full fat eBike, not everyone wants to bludgeon the terrain into submission or shred every black run over and over at a bike park. I have watched with interest the development of ebikes over the years, but as yet I've not made the leap over from the traditional (old school) MTB. The fact that the USP of a full fat Ebike is very much at odds with what I need and use my MTB for has played a big part in why, as of yet, I have held off getting one. The arms race for ever more powerful motors with bigger and bigger battery packs has only pushed them further into the realms of pointlessness for some. Now with these new lightweight Ebikes coming onto the market, they are staring to get my attention and show I'm not alone and that there is a market for such bikes.
I took the EXe for a quick test ride around the block and even on full assist, I could barely tell it was turned on. $7,000!!!!
Ok so on your 7th attempt you took the much easier line avoiding those root's that caused the issue in the 6 previous attempt's. I am a 53 years old who only does pedal power but eventually I may succumb to the e-bike when my body says you now need help. You have convinced me that the light emtb is not the way to go - it will be the full juiced up version when I finally cross that path.
Well my eBike weighs in @ 54l lbs ...but......it has 160Nm of Torque and has a 1100Wh battery.....but most of my rides are 25-30 miles, 3K-4K ft of climbing and still have plenty of battery left to get back to the Parking lot..., LUCKY 7 th attempt and you made it! Persistence does pay off...I'd rather just have more motor....
Lower your tire pressure to give you more contact and traction. I am looking to put some 3 inch wide 27.5 wheels on my Levo Sl for the same problems.
When will you test M1 bikes? These look very nice as well!
Rob Rides Likes Full Power as You Keep Telling us all,But I Have Had Quite a Few E MTBs over the Last 5 Years and Came to the Conclusion Full Power E Bikes around 25-26KG Are Not Realy Bikes at All in the Sense of what a Bike Should be !
I Have had Giant,Specialized,Rise and Muller with Rohloff E Hub Gears and Belt drive,Focus Sam2,Orbea Rise H.
Lighter Weight is the Best Way to Go No One in there Right Mind Would Want to Buy Heavy Bikes Given the Choice if the Price was the Same,They Handle Way Better,You Can Lift them in your car and Over Fences etc and Just Feel Right,Heavy E Bikes Feel Like a Pig in there Handling,You Can Not Lift Them and Why Would You Want a Heavy One,I Think they should Not Exist Any more As there That Bad.
I bought a Specialized Creo on clearance for £2000, there was a carbon option same motor, same battery, same power, same groupset, a bit lighter but no kickstand mounts and that was £5000......no brainer!!
which bike would you buy? Did I understand correctly that the seatpost on the UNNO cannot be lowered all the way down?
The sl motors should inergrate a free shift feature like Sram and Shimano have. It's really nice not to have to pedal to shift.
Not gone e bike yet but when I do I won't to go a long way so full power 4 me
Looked like a mullet setup(?) which will be harder I’d have thought for that climb, but crucially let’s see it on a full power then as a comparison……?
A 300w motor so it's not UK legal then? Is this the nominal or max output? We can do that with the bosch smart system make adjustments to the cadence and max torque to feel the burn if you wanted to really save some battery aswell on really long rides I don't see the point in anything under 85nm
Long travel lightweight e-bikes make no sense to me. Lightweight suggests XC/trail riding, where endurance over a long ride is more important that being able to climb mountains, then ride down almost vertical slopes. (Sarcasm.) Full fat e-bike make a lot of sense for climbing steep slopes and fast downhill with long travel suspension systems. But long travel lightweight e-bikes?
These "steep slopes", where are you needing to ride them?
And my Kenevo SL has 170mm of suspension, there's no descent that a full-fat can go down that a KSL can't.
Rob i would like to see a comparison of a normal light weight enduro bike on that climb vs lightweight emtb....
Sorry but I like the chunky look of an ebike! Makes it look more solid and just bad ass! If I wanted a skinny bike again I'd go buy a second bike without a motor it's not for me! The Gen 4 is just a perfect look I think non of that frame built and cut out around the motor like an old Sworks! Still a great bike but that massive angled motor facing up towards the downtubes on 1st 2nd 3rd gens is kinds why I've held off to this year and went for a new cube stereo 160 action team the frame built around the motor just looks fantastic on the 2023/24 model
For climbing the very steep and technical climbs, try one or two gears higher than your lowest gear. You’re getting too much power down and spinning out. The key is traction.
the answer is to have both, if you are able to do so, they are so different to each other they become different sports
Hi Rob, how about another video to compare the other sl motors . How do you think a Bosch sx or the latest levo sl motor would do on that hill.
This video is coming soon!!
@@RobRidesEMTB I new you wouldn't let us down
That is the right name MTB+
Not one friend I have is happy with their half power choice.