How To: HONE AN ENGINE CYLINDER
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- čas přidán 26. 01. 2021
- In this video I inspect and prepare the cylinder walls of the 2.0 TSI engine build ready to accept fresh rings.... And I take you along with me
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The camera I use in the garage:
amzn.to/2Up9Vmf
The camera I use outside of the garage:
amzn.to/2UoD1SF
A selection of the tools I use:
1/2" Torque Wrench: amzn.to/2vXQwPZ
1/4" Torque Wrench: amzn.to/39xOd3X
Feeler Gauges: amzn.to/2wKACZy
Dial Test Indicator: amzn.to/2xCpM7R
The Scales you should get... :amzn.to/3aqSgjv - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I used to work in a machine shop, and the honing machine was $30,000+, we used various grit stones, parallel guides on the hone head, absolutely flooded the cylinders with oil, we could measure the load while honing. We would careful set the stroke speed and length to set the cross hatch angles.. it was all very technical. We would bolt on a torque plate with a gasket to simulate the distortion that torqued head bolts impose, and at the end of the day, we only charged $160 to hone a V8 engine! It was the best bargain out there! Who knew we could have just used a Leslie auto parts hone with a squirt of WD40 and saved all that money and floor space!
Now you know...🤣
Not the same thing but hey I thought that was obvious...
Something I recently became aware of was the need to tailor the finish of the bore to suit the ring material. A shop will know these things and be equipped to handle it. A shop can also give advice on current trends in the practice of rebuilding; about the new materials, techniques, training. That’s why I have used shops. But I’m willing to take some chances to figure it out and do my next engine with minimal shop work. Just for the experience.
Nowadays we use a $100K honing machine and just 1 grit of diamonds to size(150 grit) then about 6 strokes with an 800 grit diamonds to create the plateau finish for the rings. We then check the surface finish with a profilometer to verify the finish is in spec, sometimes needs a couple more stokes with the 800 grit if you are using moly rings.
@@PCMenten don’t Do it! I’ve built engines for decades on my own diy projects. I dont do it everyday. But i’m well versed being around racing my entire life and working In and around shops… i’ve tried just about every short cut you can think of. Most of them ended up in a bad result in a way you never considered. Dont ever take the approach of “we’ll just see what happens”. Even if you get the bores perfectly straight. I’d bet my last dollar that you’ll have either poor compression or oil issues. Take it for what its worth. Unless you want to do it again, like this “Pro” here. 😅
@@PCMenten have you tried it yet? If not don't listen to people telling you not to. Assuming you are okay with the risk of possibly having to do it over again. However with some care you can have a solid running engine with mostly diy work. I have rebuilt 2 with diy honing and considering doing the 3rd(which is why I'm watching this. Trying to convince myself to diy again) the first 2 turned out fine. Compression test gave little variance between cylinders, minimal oil consumption. One of the builds was a street use putt around town mostly. Other one was a twin turbo street/strip with forged bottom end. Pistons were "drop in", I didn't even measure PTW 😂
Now I know i got extremely lucky with the 2nd build. Don't assume I'm trying to say you don't need a machine shop just know the possible risk and check things over well.
If you are going to be building a performance engine and got the budget, take it to a pro. If you just need something to get you around town send it.
BTW 1st build I DID measure for out of round and it was within factory spec. I also measured the 2nd and it was just barely outside of spec on 1 cyl but others were fine. I would highly recommend cleaning the cylinders and taking a lot of measurements before you diy or take it to a shop.
Am currently rebuilding an 86 OMC 3.0 marine engine that had a seized cylinder. Have been watching a ton of vids on DIY honing,and this one was excellent. Great clear instructions and easy to follow. Awesome 👏
Sweet! Cheers
Great video man went through every step in detail. Love it 👍
I love your style of talking
Interesting insight!
I had this done to a Morris Minor engine back in early 1976 as it was burning serious amounts of oil. I think we went up +0.020". Got the engine back but noticed it was full of grinding grit so after putting an old carpet into the bath, gave the block a good washing followed by thorough drying and oiling waiting for reassembly. The engine ran really well for about 35k miles and then the pistons seemed kind of triangular so swapped out for another slightly bigger cc engine. Fun while it lasted!
Nice clear video, thanks for taking the time to make it 👍 feel more confident at doing mine now.
Cool mate glad it helps 👍
Im Engine Fitter.. and IT goes trough and in direct..perfect spoken language..You are always welcome in CPH.. even thou you guys burned IT down in 1807...
I find a nice way of measuring cylinder walls using the old piston rings and a feeler. Your method is better as your getting a more accurate measurement. I will try it this way next time new tool added to the list !!
I like how you explain things. Keep working hard mate
Thankyou. 🙏
Excellent job
This is the kinda videos I love👌 keep them coming
Cheers dude 👍
i hope you will film the rest of the process for us lot!
Like that one Nick, nice refresher for me in spring, its been a long time since i did any honing, in fact it it was a MK2 Escort 1600 Sport lol 😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm about to do this to my minibike cylinder, thank you for the instructional mate
Pleasure pal 👍👍
Good video, very interesting. What size grit are the stones you're using?
Great explanation
Thank you for sharing your knowledge ive learnt alot from that video 👍
Pleasure 🙏
Epic informative vid again bro keep it up ... loving the content ❤️
Cheers bro! 👊😘
@@DecimalTenths use same size piston or new piston size?
Thanks too much for your good explanation
Awesome as always..you make it all look easy..
I'm a good actor...🤣🤣📽
@@DecimalTenths lol cmon now, we can tell you know your stuff.. just have a hard time with the (wear, Where)
Class video, really interesting 👍👍👍
Brilliant content as usual
Thanks man 👍👍
i use a 240 grit silicone carbide flex hone, then knock down the high spots with a stiff nylon brush or a bore brush. if the cylinder is tight to turn the flywheel by hand, its gonna be hard on those rings!
Nice video! Thank you.
Nice video and explications.can you share a link for the hone tool used plz ? Which grind do you use ?
Hi, Great help on this video, I am doing rings on my Zuky and borrowed a hone carbide brush from a machine shop, He told me I don't have to worry how much I use it, and I tried to get a cross-hatch but its more flat, Should I do it again? and if so, I need to remeasure for rings? Oh, and what grit do you use?
I'm loving your work! Deglassing my cyl bores with a bog brush tomorrow, I hope a rebore is not needed,
Bog brushes work best..! Especially a stiff one with firm bristles 👌. Expect some fallout of faeces if a used brush is used, don't ask me how I know....
You sir...... Deserve more subscribers. Great videos
Why thankyou sir 🤙
Total Seal Piston Rings, have some great videos on Honing Bores.... A very inportant topic/procedure these days...
It was your first vídeo that i see. It was great keep the good work
Thanks pal 👍 😘
What stone number are you using
Also do you have to polish new hone? How do you know when to polish or not
great info thanks
Yesyesyes awesome timing on this one mate! Thanks for the knowledge
Thanks Mate. Great video!!
Thanks, and you're very welcome 🙏
Every time I watch a video on this fine channel I have spent time translating it into English. But just like a comic book I can follow the pictures.
No English here...🙈🤣
@@DecimalTenths Sorry What?
Great video, could you do a video guide to the measuring equipment you use and rough costs. Thanks
Brilliant video and explanation. Thanks!
EXCELLENT !! Ty
Just for this honing vid.. you have a new subscriber mate! Nice vid!
Cool thankyou dude 👍
Make that two ✌️
@@eEnzo0 welcome aboard 👍👍
Well explained video 👍
Cheers 👍👍
The brush is shinning and new and not contaminated yet. The crank and bearings will be protected from any splatter
Good video but at 12:30 the drill speed during honing was way too fast. 12:50 shows you have a 10-15 degree crosshatch pattern but you really want 45 degrees. Slower drill, quicker drop & raise.
Yes but no but...
@@DecimalTenths what is that supposed to mean? Is the video useless or not
Great video, new sub here! Thanks for putting this vid together :). Cheers!
Ğ⁰
The hone tool looks quite small are they only a small diameter engine/long stroker those?
Nice informative video. A few years back I borrowed a Mitutoyo surface roughness tester and spent a day playing around with different hones and techniques to get the best surface to bed rings in. Most of the testing focused around plateau honing. Will just say that I switched from a three prong as it was too rough and moved to two different grade flexihones with their own lube. I hate this term but it was a game changer for my builds.
Have to say I do prefer the finish from the flexhones... and its on my list of upgrades, amongst many others...🤣. Good to hear its been confirmed by a better testing process than my eyes 👌. Cheers for sharing dude 👍
Decimal Tenths flexhone is 100% superior to those terrible 3 finger jobs, even superior to my cnc hone in a ‘stepped’ bore, as it will get under and radius the step instead or riding over/correcting it. That said, no stepped bore is within spec at top though, so I’m rarely ‘freshening’ one up. Reality though, is, anything will run, but you need to bin that hone, get a flexhone and work on your stroke/spindle speed consistency 😉 40-45 degree cross hatch will work well on all. You never stop learning, but be sure to learn the right way 😎 BTW I’d put that through a proper machine and plateau finish it for £80
Brilliant educational video. Very informative and clearly understood. If I may, can I call upon your engineering skills to answer one question. I'm not a mechanic or someone who's experienced in a machine shop, just someone who's got a passion for rebuilding car engines. I'm trying to rebuild a 1.7cc diesel engine (117,000 miles) and I measured the old piston ring gap with feeler gauges in the bore. The clearances wasn't excessive, just 0.35 instead of the recommended, Haynes manual opening of 0.20-0.30mm. So given the fact I intend to keep this family car for a few more years, I followed the advice of the book and invested in a new set (x4 pistons) standard piston rings. I'm a little bit disappointed because some of the gaps are worst than the old rings. In an ideal world with unlimited resources, yes a re-bore with oversize piston would be perfect. But with the car nearly 10 years old and me having a limited budget, my question is this. After copying your feeling and sight examination and not noticing any conceivable wear in the bores. Would it be a good idea to ask the shop to swop the standard rings for slightly oversize rings (say + 0.25mm) and try and fit them to standard pistons? And after a light honing (file if need be) try and get the exact gap clearance(s). Many thanks in advance for your (or anybody's) advice, bye for now, Barry (Chester UK).
Hey Barry!
Good question buddy. For your application I would fit the rings as they are at 0.35. That's not a bad gap at all. Admittedly oem specs tend to be a amidge tighter, but that won't make any difference from my experience, plus I have seen ring gaps also showing up at the upper end of tolerances to no ill effect.
Send it pal 👍
Great video, many thanks. Did you reverse the hone direction as well as forward?
😁👍. No just 1 way, always does the trick.
Great video
Thanks
Thank you
Nice video. Congratulations. Very instructive. One question, how do you get the right angle for the crosshatch? I believe it cannot be too shallow nor too vertical.
Cheers! Trial and error, always checking is best.
What are your cutting stone grits? One grit only?
Is that an old Escort valve cover in the background? That's cool as hell!
Edit: Ha! I didn't even notice the hoodie until later. Very cool.
It's a Sierra 3dr rocker. My Escort one is on my escort 😉
Great video but you forgot one importen thing, what course on the honing stones? I mean on a job like you just described, should I use 120, 180 or 240?
What stone you use is dependant on the requirement due to cylinder condition and what you hope to achieve. If a light deglase is required go for 240. If a deep hone is needed then go 120 and work it hard.
Sir...can use desel engine.tq
Thanks brother all the way from Tennessee. I'm rebuilding my first engine and I'm both confident a nervous at the same time. If that makes sense. Anyway I've built lawnmower engines a few times and now I need more power for a s10. Wish me luck. New sub
Best of luck with it dude!! Take the time, measure everything and it'll go well 👍👍
Right there with you in Nashville.
About to attempt a rebuild on a J35A3.
Great work, really enjoyed it and definitely will not be doing this ourself hahaha!
🤣 cheers. It is only for the really dedicated (silly) 🤣👍
top video!
Cheers
What's your opinion on re-using conrod bearing cap bolts? I've the pistons out of a v6 audi 80. Can they be reused or is it too dodge? Thanks for this video I have one of those triple stone honing tools ordered from an Irish garage supplier
Hi, I'd say resusing oem cap bolts is indeed a little dodge. They're cheap as. I re use ARP bolts, but check for stretch every time
@@DecimalTenths thanks for your reply man, i couldn't seem to find matching rod cap bolts to the ones I removed, maybe if i tried ringing the audi parts deparment? On that same note, if the cranckshaft were to be removed also, are there even more use-once oem bolts that would have to be replaced? I have 8 head bolts bought, but took flywheel off too, and it turns out the flywheel bolts should be replaced also. Are they really available at a low price? Hopefully so. Maybe arp bolts are a more future-proof option I should look into
What happened when cylinder out?
I'm now fully aware
That I shouldn't be scared
Boring and honing my engine
Is an easy decision
And minor wear is an easy repair
Awareness is key...😁
Cool video! Really enjoyed that! And especially loved that hoodie! 😂 loving the progress can’t wait for the next one! Hopefully it won’t be to long!
Few weeks mate... 🤣🤣. Not 😛
@@DecimalTenths #joker 😂
*Nice instructions now I'm gonna Hone my wife*
🤣🙈
I love this comment so much
hello there, nice vid. Do you run both way with the drill or just one way?
Both ways dude 👌
@@DecimalTenths thanks, your pattern in the cylinder also looked quiet different than mine😂 building a 1.8T atm, hoping around 500. Keep up the vids, they’re great
Great Video.
Liked and Subd
Thankyou buddy 👍👍
Hi there buddy I'm from South Africa, thank you for an informative video however i need your expertise I'm doing my mazda b series f8 engine 1800 ,i noticed the ridge top of cylinder what should I do ,it's the first time engine being done since factory the ridge is slight appreciate any help thank you
Hey dude. The Ridge at the top of the cylinder is the part where the rings don't move over. It still won't be used, but will be a good indication of how worn the cylinders are. Measure the area that the ring moves over and deter.ine if it is round, and within spec. Don't worry about the top part. If you wanted you could give the area some attention to decrease it, but it isn't needed.
So I have been honing with the exact same tool you were using but I am getting a strange pattern. I am getting the good x shape crosshatches ataround 30 40 degrees but I am also getting a strange pattern like little squares in a column. I am using penatrating oil for lubricant, I clean my stones each time, I have also tried using brake clean as a lubricant and I get the same result. Any pointers would be appreciated
Couldn't give you any advice unless I seen it to be honest.
Glad to see Johnny sins has other hobbies
How do you clean after you do the hone? So far I've seen brake clean in the cyclinder bore. Do you have to completely clean the engine after a hone job like this?
Brake cleaner is a good shout. We do give the engine a full scrub after this process though.
@@DecimalTenths thanks
Pro 😎😎😎
I have a tiny gash in the middle of my cylinder wall that I'm home now and there's still a little indentation how bad does that have to be before it cannot be used
If you can see or feel it... its time to rebore to a bigger size other wise it will never seal again.
After this do you have to use bigger piston?
No buy it dies need confirmed by measuring.
can i reuse my pistons and piston rings after honing?
You can use the pistons if they measure out OK. The whole point of the honing process is to prepare the cylinders for fresh rings, so you wouldn't reuse the rings.
How many passes do you do with the honing stone?
Enough to get the required finish is the answer. Is less about measuring as this isn't really removing much material, more just surface preparation. So hone until the cross hatches are visible and the surface is adequately deglazed.
Very clever indeed. Can’t believe this hasn’t been your day job Nick. You haven’t learnt all that working at Tesco’s 🤣
The only reason I go to Tescos is Beer matey 🤣🍻
Nicely done, even a Yank can understand that! I need a bore gauge......I put in new rings 2 years ago and put 100 miles on it and the blowby is laughable. I didnt hone the cylinders...:-( Back in there this weekend....
Awesome 👍. Definitely worth doing so it doesn't have to cone apart again...🙈
some 2.0t need revised pistons, not only rings and a hone
What if you dont get the stains out the cylinder but still nice smooth
All cones down to the measurement. Further honing can remove them, but if they are too deep, then the cylinder may be compromised and requires a full rebore and oversize pistons to suit
I think this is fine somehow for a diy or low budget
But I would make it with cnc of course
I agree! I would also prefer this to be done by a machine shop and get a better, more uniformal finish. But for DIY purposes it certainly works 👊
How do you know what yo get for new rod bearings and main bearings. Measure the old bearings so i can buy new ones
Measure the crank, which will give you an indication on whether the crank needs ground undersize. More than likely it will be ok so you can use std size bearings, and if its not then there's plenty of 1.8t cranks out there to get.
@@DecimalTenths my crankshaft read main 24 rods 21
The book calls for 24 on main 21 on rods but i feeler gauge my bore it shows 035 good or bad sir i don't want to bore it cost 500 here in louisana shit i was hoping buy bearings and put back together im just a loser every thing i opened on theses blocks there junk i don't know what yo do
My bore is 3.736 caliper its just little bit over 3.736 idk what yo do please help me sir the cheapest way
Probably a stupid question, but how much is it safe to hone cylinder walls before i need to look into buying bigger pistons? Or do I always need to change them no matter how little I hone the walls? Maybe it is said in the video, but I have a very short attention span lol
Measurement is the answer here 👍. But generally good condition pistons and cylinders will benefit from a light deglazing before fresh rings are fitted.
@@DecimalTenths okay thanks😄
is this same for diesel or petrol oil engines
????
Yes same procedure.
Think the pumping action when honing should be a bit more, makes the cross hatch a bit better... and i do left hand wd40 👍
I also do prefer more crosshatch in them, but I was happy with this. It certainly did the job. Why left hand dude?
@@DecimalTenths spray left handed, pump right hand 🤣🤣🤣 that sounded weird 😆
What was the difference in measurements after?
No real difference when it's just a very quick deglaze
Why did you need to rebuild this engine ? Seems there is nothing wrong with the cylinders ? Is it burning oil ?
The engine had a knock. I covered this in previous videos on this project 👍
@@DecimalTenths okay just watched this video as I’m going to rebuild my own due to massive oil consumption
What oil do you recommend to settle the engine, synthetic, semi-synthetic or mineral?
Mineral oil for sure. We use Millers CRO 👍
decimaltenths.co.uk/product/millers-competition-running-in-oil-10w-40/
carressing the pistons? 3:20
OLÁ. Ao usar o "Intramess" o lado da sapata serve como centralizador do instrumento e auxilia encontrar a posição (180º) com o movimento do lado oposto observando o ponteiro do relógio. O "Brunimento" de cilindro com furadeira deve ser feito por "artistas" e não por mecânicos nem por retificadores. Eu continuo "vivendo e aprendendo" com muito cuidado para não desaprender. ABRAÇOS... Roberto Udo Krapf
Where? Wear? Weir? 🤣💯🤘
Hello experts,
My mechanic changed my top cylinder on my car toyota corolla 09 model due to a sound at the top cylinder.
Note: that was the only issue my car had before I took it to him.
Unfortunately, after the completion, I went to pick it up and in a 5 minutes drive away from the workshop, the car started misfiring and overheating. Eventually, the car couldn't start anymore and the mechanic went ahead and ringed my engine that there's low compression.
I told him he spoilt my engine because it was in a good condition before I took it to him apart from the sound at the top cylinder.
Please, what do you think caused that?
He changed the top gasket as well.
Your expert feedback is appreciated.
Thanks.
Hate to break it to you but you had that problem before the head was changed.
Sir how we known that we do write cross hatch pattern
All about the rotation and up and down movement. Start slowish and move up and down quickly. See how it is after a few seconds and then adjust speed or movements to compensate and get the hatching how you want it.
Thank you sir for guiding me and give such a good knowledge
How did this engine turn out?
Awesome 👌 I crashed the track car it was built for, so I sold it to a pal who now runs it in his G25 powered Mk2 Golf Track Car 😁
Watched it to the end so there. It was good. I think you like Eminem with the hat backwards and all the hand gesturing. Do you..?
Ha cheers! I'm sure Slim would be happy with the comparison 😬
The 5 W’s:
Wear
Wear
Wear
Wear
Wear
5 different meanings too...😛🤣
220 grit or what?
Straightaway x 1000! 😂
Is it bad to hone the cylinder walls with the crankshaft still assembled underneath?
It's not ideal, but it can definately be done as long as you cover the crankshaft, and then make sure you're really clean
@@DecimalTenths another question man, there is rust on the cylinder bores, mainly beneath where the pistons were travelling. would that rust have to be cleaned out fully prior to honing with the honing tool on the drill? I've tried cleaning the rust with paper and cotton pads with brake clean, but the rust isn't budging too easy. I don't want to go at itwith a scotchbrite or something something as harsh as that, nor do I want to try hone the bores without removing the rust first. Any advice you have as to how to best clean the rust off would be good to hear.
Or is it just a case of putting the hone stones down in there on the drill and letting cut?!
Be mindful, and be aware of the wear; ultimately beware.
Obvs... haha
I was wondering why his numbers were melting my brain . Ummmm he is doing MM . Im use to thousandths of an inch 😂.
thousandths of a what? 😝🤣
@DecimalTenths an inch . It's 1/12th of 1 foot . American unit of measure that does not work on 10s 💀. Deffinely only makes sense if that the way you learned 😂.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reason you're here
is at 12:22
That's not a hone! It's a glaze breaker! Those cylinders have miles on them. They're not perfect! Deglaze them with the stones it came with. Use WD. wash it out, put it together! Don't waste your time measuring if you're not going to bore it.
It's simple diy. If you're looking for perfection, bring it to a machine shop.
Making a big fuss over simple re-ring!
I'm retired 55yr experience machinist.
Good for you kiddo 👍👍
Machine shops are charging an arm a leg to do work now. I got quoted 4k to do a simple clean and hone on my Audi v8. People I know are finding ways to avoid machine shops at this point. With a lot of research, the right tools and patience to detail, I can do the same job. Prices are fucking outrageous.
Where?
Where what...?