I think it's amazing as I'm growing in Christ that I get a Q. about something.. and then the Lord brings things too me.. Thanks so much Pastor John, really enjoy
U got it. That he gave his only begotten son. That whosoever would believe in him. So the non elect are under Gods wrath. Jesus is the olive branch. If a person does not receive that they are saying to God I'm not yours. And I don't want to be your child.
The grace of God in Salvation is the gift not faith. The subject in Eph is the grace of God 2: 4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED;) 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of (HIS GRACE) in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
@Mysterio And where do you get that from? In Ephesians 2. Salvation is the gift by the grace of God through faith. Faith is the arm that reaches out and accepts God's gift.
A gift that you were merely 'lucky' to receive. By the Calvinist's own admission, the 'elect' are chosen by God not because he actually saw anything of value in you (lest you should boast, right?), but he chose to spare you COMPLETELY at RANDOM. Yet he also declares that he desires every man to come to him - yet he also purposefully creates them and blocks off their ability to choose him.... and so he punishes them by sending them to 'eternal conscious torment' in hell. Because this apparently pleases him. And brings him glory. wat
@@N.i.E.M.O Honestly I'm not big fan of election as it puts me on a pedestal I don't want to be on I feel like, but I did see mistake which was God doesn't see value in us. God chose many prophets who we're sinful or weak and chose them seeing what was inside there heart and I do believe if the elect is real since God is all knowing he just knows who is and isn't going to accept his gift although I still wouldn't know why still he wouldn't elect everyone. I would guess it wouldn't be explained and just something to have faith on. Hope this does help and answers something
@@marcusrose8971 So where does faith come from ? Is it from our flesh ? Was Abraham looking for God before God called his name? I mean I know Abraham had faith when he heard God and it was counted as righteousness. Faith comes after God calls our name .
Both Calvinism and Arminianism have their points which we must view together not separate. It would be impossible for god to be sovereign and not “predestine” what people do. Likewise we couldn’t love without freewill. God knew revelations before genesis ever happened. Therefore all things are predestined to a sovereign god. It is impossible for him to not know something therefore all things are predestined to him. We have entire free will as far as our fleshly choices. We can not choose god on our own because we disobey him by our very nature, but because Christ died for all our sins he calls each of us to him through ways we cannot know. If we choose to open the door to the call he sent first we can through him be saved, overcome our fleshly desires and when time comes humbly enter heaven. We cannot wake up and decide to choose god after a life of disobedience, however since he has chosen us all and calls us all we can accept his love or not. He is always fair and just.
Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” There you go as God said it.
Romans 9:15 has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with the lives of those still living on the earth. The scriptures also state that God allows good things to happen to the 'wicked' and bad things to happen to the 'pure'. Keep that in mind.
I announce throughout the universe and eternity...I give my choice Jesus Christ.. And agree to undergo all the demonic attacks and persecution for my faith...only not to miss Jesus and His saints..because its hell for me to live without His presence and church even on the earth ....but if after this He doesnt have mercy on me..and support my spiritual life..that will really be His choice and Ill eternally announce ..that He left me go...but Im horrified to live without Him...I love You Lord...Help me ..plz...Amen
Pray and the Holy Spirit will open the word to you. And yes I believe God IS love. You find peace but not in this weird logic. Let the Holy Spirit lead you through his word. Love in Christ
So.….the 'non-elect' get their threescore and ten, during which time they may experience soft, refreshing rain. After which, they are consigned to an unimaginable eternity. And God loves them. Not enough to force them to respond through 'irresistible grace - not even enough to give them the mercy of never being born - but just enough to afflict them with a short, pointless existence.....before they pay the ultimate penalty.
Every breath we take is a gift from God. If we all got justice, we’d all be burning. A lot of people are forgetting the whole “we sin and rebel against God” part.
Exactly. Remember, the majority of humans who ever lived on this earth have lived short, meaningless, and miserable lives of hardship and starvation. How does it glorify God to send someone who lived maybe 20 to 30 years of perpetual misery and sorrow on earth to eternal conscious torment in the fires of hell? These people probably thought death would be an escape from the pain of existence - but I guess they sure are in for a rude awakening! But then again, God is sovereign and he can do whatever he feels like, so if it pleases him to create the vast majority of humanity for the sole purpose of experiencing excruciating torment for all of eternity, who are we, oh insignificant men, to question God? As the Calvinist would say.
@@N.i.E.M.O if anyone *can* question god, it is us. Asking “who are we to question” is such a meaningless empty question to ask. Besides, if anything we are not questioning god as such, as much as we are questioning your (and others) description of and narrative about god. That is, what we are asking about is if what you say about god is true, and if that is something we should believe or something we should question. You do the exact same when you ask questions about the things said about god in other religions; you’re not question *the* god as much as you’re questioning *their* god
@@huntsman528 ..he loves them for the purpose they were created for.. ..do you love your neighbors children the way you love you own children.. ..shortsighted are you..
@@cddpmpls35 he knows and has an acquaintanceship with those who love him, if that is what you're asking. But God loved the world and gave his son that none might perish. As He wishes that none would perish. It seems pretty silly to deny God's love.
@@cddpmpls35 also, we are all God's children. He is our Father whether we recognize that or not, whether we have believing loyalty or not. Hence why he loves us.
@@huntsman528 ..his love is not to be equated to our love and surely our love is not a quantitative representation of his love.. ..his way regarding love are not our ways......his thoughts regarding love are not our thoughts.. ..ye do boast as though God himself were created after your image and likeness..
America's most popular Calvinistic Pastor John Piper was on CZcams this morning. Someone asked him if God loved the un-elect. John Piper said that God loves the un-elect also. Grace Evangelist John Stewart compiles a worthy discussion thru Holy Scriptures alone, if those things are so. "Judge ye what I say," because "Let God be true, and every man a liar": "And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken." (Job 38:15) "For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them." (Job 17:4) "That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." (Job 21:30) "Jesus answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:13) "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." (I John 3:10) "And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered." (Malachi 3:15) "He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors." (Psalm 7:13) "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." (II Peter 2:9) "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered." (Isaiah 29:10) "Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding." (Job 39:17) "Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret." (Job 40:12-13) "In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 51:39) "Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men." (Psalm 90:3) "They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand." (Isaiah 44:18) "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his. He leadeth counselors away spoiled, and maketh the judges' fools." (Job 12:16-17) "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4) "Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." (Jeremiah 6:30) "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: a heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children." (II Peter 2:12-14) Compiled by: facebook.com/lovejoypeaceforever
I know god understands our fear, sadness and our struggles. Therefore, will he condemn those who are bitter, angry over their sad, tragic lives? Many I know are these and I hope this loving god of mercy, compassion, wisdom, love will be merciful to them. We must pray for them and love our neighbors. BU LOVE GOD MOST WITH YOUR MIGHT AND MANE.
My friend, RUN FROM CALVINISM! John Piper holds to meticulous determinism. He proclaims, "God knows the future because he performs the future". In his view, Dr. Piper is unapologetically convinced God is just as responsible for the holocaust as he is for Jeffry Dahmer's appetite. If you have 'fear and sadness' in your struggles, it is God who has decreed your sadness as well as the struggles which cause it. If some become bitter that, too, is also only by God's eternal, unchangeable decree. According to the doctrine, you can pray... but it will change nothing. God will not alter his 'unchangeable' decree 'because' of a prayer.... for he decreed the prayer as well. NONE OF THIS IS BIBLICAL... BUT IT IS THE UNAVOIDABLE CONSEQUNENCE OF CALVINISM.
And yet it is written. It bothers the most committed Calvinist. But at the end of the day, the Calvinist says, "I don't get it. It seems wrong in a sense to my natural mind, but you are God. You are just, holy and loving and I acknowledge that my imperfect mind won't ever grasp this fully in this life." You can't deny what's clearly there. On the flip side, you can't deny the clear Scripture that all who call on Him will be saved. Yet, only those the Father draws come. If you've come then you've been drawn. Nobody lives God before God draws them. We hate all that He is before he does that miraculous work in our hearts because we live all that we are and have no room for Him in our fallen, wicked hearts.
"And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken." (Job 38:15) ; "For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them." (Job 17:4) ; "That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." (Job 21:30) ; "Jesus answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:13) ; "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." (I John 3:10) ; "And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delievered." (Malachi 3:15) ; "He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors." (Psalm 7:13) ; "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." (II Peter 2:9) ; "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered." (Isaiah 29:10) ; "Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding." (Job 39:17) ; "Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret." (Job 40:12-13) ; "In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 51:39) ; "Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men." (Psalm 90:3) ; "They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand." (Isaiah 44:18) ; "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his. He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools." (Job 12:16-17) ; "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4) ; "Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." (Jeremiah 6:30) ; "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children." (II Peter 2:12-14) Compiled by: facebook.com/lovejoypeaceforever
It may very well be that there is no possible world (possible description of reality) that God can create in which every free creature chooses to accept God’s invitation of Grace and repent. Because it is logically impossible to make someone freely do something (and God cannot do the logically impossible) it may very well be that some free creatures will always freely choose to reject God and so be lost. So God so orders the world to bring about the most saved people. And those who are saved are called the elect. I think this is the most plausible way of making sense of everything scripture teaches. It affirms both predestination and the free will of man.
Look at it...like this. If you were going to create a company, from a great idea and plan of your own..., in order to get out your product to as many people as possible ..., you would have the right to "elect" and "chose" a certain amount of employees to "establish" the need for your invention, with the result being that hopefully EVERYONE could benefit from it. God used Moses, Abraham, the prophets, the Apostles, Paul...., to preach one main subject in the whole bible...Redemption in Christ.
Nomad: What do you find "beautiful" about it? God makes people with the predestination of eternal hell but gives them some treats for a brief time first, and calls that "love"?
20july1944 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Romans 9:21-26 KJV bible.com/bible/1/rom.9.21-26.KJV
If someone can explain this to me, how come at the end he says that we should make every effort to bring people to heaven with us, while previously speaking for minutes about the doctrine of election? It seems to me like they contradict. Perhaps I’m not familiar enough with the subject, but what’s the point of evangelism if some are elected for heaven and not others? Because if that’s the case what can human beings do( or not do )to change or affect what God has predestined?
Well, it's not that "We" bring people with us to heaven. Actually we are just God's means for the extention of His mercy and grace. God uses us to reach the people, to deliver the good news, elect or not elect. It's not up to us to determine which is which. You See, doctrine of election does not contradict evangelism, but rather gives us confidence to this calling. Because when the message is delivered, it is then up to God and his calling to fulfill this act of grace of election. Therefore, we are confident that at least one soul, in our lifetime in Christ, will eventually received the gospel, embrace it, and change him/her. Didn't you know that we are actually the only gospel That unbelieving people can read? The image of God must be put inside of us. That's the purpose, once we are saved, we are not to be stagnant in our lives. Everyone has a calling, everyone has a purpose. Thats our responsibility towards God. Hope that somehow can help.
Jonathan Broughton: the image of mariage between Christ and the Church is an image that can't tell the whole story. The image of war is also true and we as humans are naturally in rebellion against him so that's not just meaning not being married... but that we hate him, we hate the truth and his light and beauty and the only way to be reconciled is him saving us... But I understand your feeling here. That's how I was feeling too... but God is never unfair unjust even if that's how we feel... Romans 1:18-20 NIV "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, *who suppress the truth by their wickedness*, [19] since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. [20] For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities---his eternal power and divine nature---have been clearly seen, *being understood from what has been made*, so that people are without excuse."
Jonathan... your analogy is simple "humanistic" heresy. ---------- Jesus taught [Mat 13] the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of TWO GROUPS. ---------- There are the saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God) who are destined to eternal life and there are the unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan) who are destined to eternal torment. ----------- For you to pretend that Jesus PAID for the sins of the "children of Satan" (or for Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Humanists, etc, etc) demonstrates you do not even understand the "milk" of the Gospel, much less the "meat" ----------- www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com -------------
@@wisevirgin3405 His analogy is common sense. Every reference to "children of the devil" is a Hebrew idiomatic expression, used only to show equality of characteristics. The devil cannot create nor conceive anything; he does not have that power. Therefore the devil could never be a father of anything, especially of human beings with the image of God. If you could ever believe that anyone is destined to eternal torment, you are drinking sour milk and eating rotten meat. Oh, and eternal torment is not in the Bible. It comes from pagan mythologies surrounding the Church in its early years.
Why do people go to men? Its almost as if they don't believe that God will lead them in truth. At least John here acknowledged to be in the word in the beginning of this answer and that is the source of true knowledge. But men lead us in all sorts of different directions. God will lead you in truth if you trust in Him.
There are two Greek words in the New Testament that are translated into English as "love". The words are agape and phileo. When the Bible tells his people to love their enemies, the word used is "agape", not "phileo". Agape means to walk in the commandments of God. Phileo means to have an affection for someone.
I have 4 chickens, I love them. They are diggers and cause no end of mess and they are costly to keep. I wouldn't kill one of them leave alone burn them alive which would be less cruel than keeping them burning for ever. Reading Exodus 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. .....You can see that the reason why God put the fear of death on them was that they fear him and sin not. God hates sin. We have a beautiful picture of God in Christ in John 8 and 4. Both these characters would have a job trying to be accepted in many churches today.
Crazy how.people refuse to believe the Gospel because they are so worried about the goats. They are God's children not yours and He will do with them what He wants. Puny helpless man cannot even see God but the unbelievera are constantly judging him because they do not know Him or anything about Him. And without repentance they too will be separated from Him forever. God granted repentance.
God 'resisteth the proud' (1Pet.5:5), and 'Surely He scorneth the scorners' (Prov.3:34), meaning that 'shame shall be the promotion of fools' (Prov.3:35), which seem to despise His goodness and grace (Rom.2:4-8, Dan.12:2,3, Ps.145:20, 147:6,11, 149:4).
As my pastor puts it, if you are truly interested in God, let’s say your worried about being saved, only a believer would be concerned about their salvation, there are people who never give God or Christ a thought, they are very anti- Christ, vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, God uses the hand of evil to chastise his children. Read Jeremiah, it’s a very good book on explaining how God brings evil upon people, and God is the one who causes the people to do the evil, GOD says, I the Lord do all things, I let live, I destroy, God is sovereign, he planned out this entire play if you will, we are parts of Gods tapestry, poieo in Greek, Jim Brown Grace and Truth ministries on utube will teach you all the things that God is laying on your heart, he takes phone calls all the time, our ministry is all over the world, Jim teaches Predestination!☺️🙏
So how do I know if I am among the elect or not? Wait until I die and I either go to heaven or hell? Did I miss something in this video that tells me whether or not I am among the ones destined to go to heaven?
You know you’re apart of the elect if you have the Holy Spirit. You know you have the Holy Spirit if you’re born again. You know you’re born again if you’ve put your faith in Jesus alone for salvation. You know your faith is saving faith if you hate your sin, mortify it daily, fight the good fight, endure til the end and produce fruits of the spirit/good works as a result of the grace God has shown you.
@@cjfoster4179 ok but not every saved person is fighting the good fight some are idle and weak hearted, weak believers. Jonah and David at one point were like that.
@@91moviemaster I pray that you don't still believe that you can be saved by the blood of Christ without persevering in Christ... 🤔? If that is what Arminian doctrine is teaching, then run.
When God commands us to love our enemies he is not saying to love emotionally only or to only love emotionally our enemies but our love is to be shown in behavior towards our enemies with John is saying from the Scriptures he “is that God does love us emotionally however his behavior towards their non-elect is different however I don’t think scripture really truly bears this out. In fact the scriptures that John piper uses actually support the fact that the sinner can repent and turn towards God by his own free will or volition. If I host a dinner celebration and I desire, want, and invite all to come, it is a major contradiction in my behavior then to not allow all but two Barr the door purposely to some. When he talks about marriage and a husband and a wife, I could ask every woman to be my wife. However the only one who will be my wife is the one who freely accepts my invitation. And yes it does place them in a special position of behavior.
God's goodness to all his creatures The sun shines upon the righteous and unrighteous The ungodly have fame and wealth Famous sport legends Movie and pop stars Surgeons poets politicians Military leaders..idols Worshipped by millions Religous leaders have many followers cults and sects
GOD So Loved The World But GOD’S Love Is NOT Promiscuous, It’s Powerful, Never Wasted, And Accomplishes GOD’S Predestined Purposes Through HIS Chosen People: In HIS Letter (The Bible) to HIS Children (The Elect, The Chosen), GOD in the flesh (Jesus Christ) announces something (John 3:16) surprising to HIS listeners. HE announces that HIS Love for HIS Elect is no longer (John 4:22-23) based on a certain geographical portion of the world (Jerusalem), or a certain nationality of the world (the physical genealogical seeds of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob - Luke 3:8, Galatians 3:7-8, Romans 2:28-29) but GOD’S Elective-Chosen-Love is for people of ALL the world. Within ALL geographical locations (Mark 13:27), and within ALL nationalities/colors/languages (Revelation 7:9) are HIS Elect who HE has ordained (Acts 13:48) to eternal life through HIS sacrifice on the cross. Who’s names HE wrote in the Lamb’s Book of Life before HE laid the foundations of the world. The John 3:16 Universal Love Heresy Debunked: For GOD so loved the world does NOT mean GOD loves EVERY individual in the world and gave HIS Only Begotten Son to die for EVERY individual in the world - it means GOD so loved HIS Children (The Elect, The Chosen) who are within ALL geographical locations (Mark 13:27), and within ALL nationalities/colors/languages (Revelation 7:9) of the world. It’s important to note who Jesus is speaking to when HE states John 3:16. Jesus is speaking to the physical genealogical decedents of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob who ONLY know of GOD’S Elective-Chosen-Love being for the physical genealogical decedents of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob. It was shocking for them to hear that The GOD of Israel’s Elective-Chosen-Love is spread out among Gentiles as well. John 3:16 KJV “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” The word “believeth” is a word of ability and because of the fall of Adam humankind is spiritually dead, and a spiritually dead man has NO ability to believe - that’s why one must become Born Again to even SEE the Kingdom of GOD (John 3:3), and ONLY GOD can raise the dead. Acts 13:48 KJV “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” One has to be “ordained” (given sight by GOD - John 12:38-40) to have the ability to believe and NOT EVERY individual in the world is given sight. GOD Has Always Chosen People - Before HIS Incarnation (Old Testament) And After HIS Incarnation (New Testament): In the Old Testament GOD chooses a people - the physical, genealogical descendants of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob and WILLS them to fulfill HIS predestined purpose -To Bring forth the promised suffering Messiah, Jesus Christ (Isaiah 53:3-7). In the New Testament GOD chooses a people - the Spiritual descendants (Galatians 3:7-8, Romans 2:28-29) of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob who are the true worshippers GOD is seeking (John 4:22-23) through WILLED faith in Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior. GOD has ALWAYS chosen people whom HE has WILLED by faith to accomplish HIS purposes. No one has EVER by their own freewill chosen to follow GOD by faith. GOD’S Love Never Fails: IF GOD so loved the world meant EVERY single individual then a vast majority of GOD’S Love will be returned void because it is a narrow road to salvation (Matthew 7:13). GOD’S ways are not humankind’s ways (Isaiah 55:8-9) and therefore HIS Love is not like humankind’s love. GOD’S Love is ALL Powerful, Truly Irresistible and ALWAYS accomplishes what it sets out to accomplish as GOD comes and lives in HIS Elect after their Spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-6) and guides (John 14:16) them to fulfill GOD’S plan for their lives (Ephesians 2:10).
@@christophersnedeker2065 Yes a Calvinist would be forced to agree...God has literally created souls in his own image for no other purpose than to destroy them for doing what he determined they would do without any ability to do otherwise... and, supposedly, he does this for his own 'good pleasure' and to bring himself more 'glory'. .... BUT, if they saw a little child in a sandbox playing out scenarios like that they would not let their child play with them ... because its mental illness on display. They have tied their proverbial leg to the Biblically unsupported lie of all men's Total Inability from birth and they cannot escape the unavoidable consequences which evolved into TULIP. Consequently, they must massage all scripture which conflicts with the doctrine. Whenever Calvinism and Scripture collide it is Calvinism which must prevail.... at all cost. Calvinism is unbiblical.
yes by Calvinist belief God is hate to everyone but “the elect” predestined before time. Are you sure you are? You could be one of non elect and deceived and no matter what you do or how much you pray you will go to torment but be happy it will be to show His Glory. Love in Christ
The elect are the 144,000 that Revelations talks about, they are the Sons of God and the wise virgins. They were chosen before the foundation of the earth to wins souls in the end times and be overcome by the enemy (love not their lives even to the death). They are the first fruits that will be transformed first in the rapture. When Christ talks about His sheep's knowing His voice and having two sheep pens(John 10: 27), he was referring to the elect and the main body of the church that will be one in the new age. The elect will be His Kings and Priests and will reign with Him for 1000 years in the New Millennium.
And no it is not that God loves the elect more. It's that the elect were chosen to lead in the end times because they were fully trained. They had a very difficult life (ordained by God) in order to purge them of 'self', so they could be fully indwelled by the holy spirit. This is done so they can save souls and perform signs and wonders to counteract the antichrist during the end times harvest. This mean that they walked closer with God as he ordained certain things to happen in their lives, to humbling them, He will highlighting sins in their life they need to repent of, and will ensure they have good hearts, and that there is a clear separation from the world. By the time this maturation process is finished, they are fit to help lead the main church and the lost out of the hands of the beast. The devil will have his minions during that time and Christ will have His elect.
America's most popular Calvinistic Pastor John Piper was on CZcams this morning. Someone asked him if God loved the un-elect. John Piper said that God loves the un-elect also. Grace Evangelist John Stewart compiles a worthy discussion thru Holy Scriptures alone, if those things are so. "Judge ye what I say," because "Let God be true, and every man a liar": "And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken." (Job 38:15) "For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them." (Job 17:4) "That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." (Job 21:30) "Jesus answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:13) "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." (I John 3:10) "And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered." (Malachi 3:15) "He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors." (Psalm 7:13) "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." (II Peter 2:9) "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered." (Isaiah 29:10) "Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding." (Job 39:17) "Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret." (Job 40:12-13) "In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 51:39) "Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men." (Psalm 90:3) "They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand." (Isaiah 44:18) "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his. He leadeth counselors away spoiled, and maketh the judges' fools." (Job 12:16-17) "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4) "Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." (Jeremiah 6:30) "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: a heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children." (II Peter 2:12-14) Compiled by: facebook.com/lovejoypeaceforever
"Traditional" teaching says that since God is a loving God, He loves everyone. Some Scriptures appear to suggest He does, but no Scripture actually says he loves everyone. To me, The Flood is proof beyond doubt that He does not love everyone. It is unthinkable that God would, by Hid own hand, destroy [kill] those He loves. Noah and his family were part of The Elect, and those that were not were destroyed. All (men, women, children, even infants) were destroyed.
Hey Ron, this is making the assumption that everything ends on this earth and that death is punishment. Yes the flood was a cleaning of this world because of our decision but everyone is given a choice and upon death we are asked to choose to be holy “Set Apart” with God/Jesus or truly turn away from love, grace, mercy and forgiveness.
@@JordanNHoule Hi Jordan - So much of our "traditional" teaching is drowning in the thought that we have so many choices. We do make constant choices everyday. But, if we say we have a choice in accepting God or rejecting Him, then our Salvation would depend on what [we] do. Scripture clearly tells us that Faith in Jesus is a gift from God. Jesus states from The Cross "It is finished." So, why is it that we continue to press ourselves into doing more than He has already done. We, as Christians, have been set apart, but we aren't the ones who have done that. God has set us apart as we, as sinful creatures, are unable to do that for ourselves. If God doesn't [first] act upon His creation, then no one has a chance at being saved. We constantly pat ourselves on the back when [we] think [we] have accomplished something Godly. Phil. 2:13 tells us that it is God who generates, within us, the desire to do anything good, then it is He who moves us to do it. My favorite NewsBoys song asks the question "Have you forgotten who you are, have you forgotten who's trip you're on? Everything [especially us) God has created is for Himself.
NomadHeart22 He died for everyone, its so clear in scripture. (I John 2:2, John 3:16, 1 timothy 4:10) The elect are those who have put their faith in Christ. God doesnt arbitrarily or "uncondiontally" choose people for salvation.
Yianni: Your example doesn't help me at all. The Guy in your example *created* all 20 with a horrible disease that causes infinite and eternal suffering and the "money" is really something desperately needed like medicine. So, I'm heart-sickened by God's cruelty -- nothing to do with justice either way. Would you sire 20 children then only feed five of them?
In reply to you sir, Romans 8 and 9 tell us that God chose, not us. We technically "chose" but only because we were enabled to. How, if man is totally depraved in the flesh (can do no good) could man choose God on His own (which is good)? Only by God's decree. Otherwise, we are saved by our own choice, which is a WORK in itself, and we're saved by grace through faith not by works.God did die for everyone, he died for everyone THEORETICALLY. He died for the whole world (IF THE WHOLE WORLD BELIEVED!) but they don't. My father put it to me like this, "Jesus' death was SUFFICIENT for the whole world, but only EFFICIENT for the elect."
Are aborted fetuses all non elect since they cant make a choice? And if hell fire lasts for eternity, how can that be seen as loving. Especially if they are predistined to hell?
Evangelicals: Quote scripture w. Context Calvinist: Huh? Why does Piper never talk about the CONTEXT when he’s quoting scripture???? I seriously don’t understand.
because you can go check on the context yourself and see that the verse means what it says, instead of being a pathetic cowardly whiny toddler who can't think.
According to Calvinism, not only does God not love the 'non-elect' (as the define them), but rather made them for the purpose of destruction... for his 'good pleasure' and to gain more glory for himself , as-if God could even be more glorious than he is.🤔 BUT... not only that... Any Calvinist professing faith in Christ can only do so by God's effectual, unchangeable, decree. And, since they hold this to be true, and since no one is promised the 'Gift of Perseverance'... the only way afforded within the confines of Calvinist doctrine to explain those who later abandon their profession of faith is just as John Calvin did. "Evanescent Grace", a temporary, 'fake', faith God permits some to experience for a time and later withdraws...because he never really loved them anyway. AND, if God does that to some there is absolutely no reason to believe he isn't doing to to you right now. And the real possibility of apostasy, by God's decree, now hangs over their head like the Sword of Damocles. Any attempt to point to one's Christian activities or desires as 'evidence' of salvation is useless. In Calvinism, they are only a manifestation of God's decree...for today... which may not last either. You are worshiping a God who cannot be trusted to love anybody you know. Not even the man in the mirror.
Calvanism is all together a difficult issue simply because it is wildly unbiblical. Each one must work out his own salvation. No one is predestined to hell.
I would say God loves everyone even the non-elect, but I would say he has a special type of unique love for his elect; like for example I may love my friends but I have more of a special unique love for my children since they are my biological children. So to put it plainly God does love the non-elect but he doesn't love them redemptitily which it is his character to love everyone but he does not love the non-elect redemptitily since he sovereignly choose them for eternal destruction, I know this might sound like God is evil but he is not as him being absolutely sovereign he has the right to choose some and reject some. As the Bible says that God will have mercy on whom ever he will have mercy on and he will have compassion on whom ever he will have compassion on.
Under Piper's Calvinism I find it absurd to say that God "loves" the non-elect in any meaningful way. So he causes his rain to fall on the just and unjust??? And that's supposed to be counted as "loving" somehow??? And all the while the reality in the background is that before creation God determined every single sinful thought, desire or action the "unjust" would ever experience and also DETERMINED that they would be punished eternally in hell for committing these very sins that HE ultimately caused them to commit! In John Piper's view, God determines the "unjust" to have no real ability to repent or believe and then will ultimately condemn them to a fiery torment in hell for not repenting or believing! But he gives them rain during their lifetime! How loving of God! It's like Nazis giving the Jews a candy bar while shuffling them in line toward a gas chamber and calling that "loving." Calvinism turns God's love into an unintelligible absurdity. I love John Piper, but his Calvinistic views are absurd.
If there's elected and everyone who isn't elected, why would you need to bring other people to Christ when you don't have to try anything for them to be saved since the non-elect are destined to hell and the elected who still hasn't come to Christ will eventually will even if there's no one to share them the Gospel personally?
Pastor John, you quoted; ( Joh 17:9) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. This verse merely says Jesus prayed for His disciples. and f not electing them for salvation. But you left out this verse; (Joh 17:20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; .here Jesus again reaffirmed that He not only prayed for his disciples whom God gave for service and not for salvation as evidenced by Judas Iscariot though chosen but ended up as a reprobate . Jesus also prayed for those which shall believe in Him through the word.. .here it clearly says that Jesus shall pray also for whosoever believe in Him. Jesus didn't choose them and caused them to believe or extending his saving love to some but not others and I understand no one deserved it. .I noticed your exposition of these verses are bent on Calvinistic tone and cherry picking verse to suit your theology. That is my opinion. Thanks
Tan... as always, you cannot even pretend to understand the MEANING of a verse (or all related verses) unless you first understand the CONTEXT. --------- I will make this very simple for you child. In Matthew 13 Jesus explains that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of BOTH many unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep/saints" (sown by God). ------------ Now... do you REALLY pretend that Jesus' Atonement PAID for the sins of the "tares/goats" sown by Satan? Is that what you believe child? ------------ Jesus was clear there are TWO kinds of people in the Christian Kingdom (1) those who are "His sheep" destined to eternal life and (2) those who are "children of Satan" destined to eternal torment. ------------ Unless and until you FIRST understand the CONTEXT of who are part of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" you cannot even understand the "milk" of the Gospel... much less the "meat". -------------- BTW... this does not even address RELATED passages that say that some men are CREATED to be "vessels of destruction" while other men are created to be "vessels of mercy"... child, who do you think Jesus' Atonement covered? Do you pretend it was those who were created to spend eternity in torment? --------------- Before you can even PRETEND to understand the Gospel you must be able to harmonize your theories with ALL RELATED Scripture. I have just shown you TWO passages that contradict your theories. ---------------- You do not have to LIKE what the Bible says... but whenever you believe what you like and you reject (or intentionally ignore) the verses that contradict your doctrine... then it is not the Gospel that you believe - it is just your own personal "feelings". ---------------- www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com ---------------
@@wisevirgin3405 thanks for replying! I believed the same thing he believed, but since our country went into lockdown due to the corona virus; I read a book by arthur pink called the attributes of God. This book convinced me of what you teach! Hopefully the person you reply to will also come to the same realization as our have.
How can God invite people to heaven, whom he had predestined for hell even before their creation? Calvinism means blasphemy. God loves the non elect to give them good things like cattles are fed, but the elect he turns from their sins to save and sends the non elect to hell?
Meadow Brooks the funny thing about this is that God isn’t obligated to seek anyone. Yet he has chosen to seek his elect. It is baffling he would seek any of us wretched sinners.
That should be a sign to you that it is false doctrine. No person is eternally reprobate. Jesus will bring all people to faith in him and to repentance from their sins.
What if you grew up in a non Christian household? How would not knowing Jesus be your fault? So if you grew up not knowing Jesus you will end up in Hell?
@@reformtalk5123 you must be very closed minded to think there aren't parts of the world where people live out their entire lives without any knowledge of god or religion.
@@questfordopamine maybe without knowledge of Jesus Christ is very likely, but not of God. Roman's chap. 1 states God has revealed himself to all. I can be close minded but thank God we have the bible to show us our failures.
Tony at the end thanks John for explaining the "generosity" of God toward the non-elect. I'm sorry, but this is absurd to me. I've listened to John Piper for years and am familiar with his deterministic views of salvation. He believes that God ultimately determines every sinful thought and action that the non-elect will ever commit! Then he also believes that God will eternally damn them in fiery torment for committing these very sins that he determined them to commit! Generosity? Seriously? God's ultimate purpose for the non-elect was to create them in order to burn them eternally for his glory! To "display his wrath and make his glory known".... Generosity? Nonsense. In what world... in what universe can that be defined as "generous"??? This sounds like stockholm syndrome to me. There are better ways to interpret texts like Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 than the way Calvinists do. Calvinists turn God into a monster.
Brandon, Of course I have considered that God loves me. He loves me so much that He sent His Son to die in my place. I don't understand why you ask this question.
@@brandonburrell8517 i am pretty certain he doesnt love me. Oh well, cant do anything about that. Spouse doesnt either. I wish there was a button to push to not exsist.
@@meadowbrooks4041 I am so sorry that you feel unloved. Truly. Let me assure you though, God loves you. He loved you so much that He gave His only begotten Son for you. Jesus Christ died for your sins, every single one of them, and He rose again to justify you before the throne of God your Father. It seems to me, based on your comment that you feel a great deal of pain and loneliness, and that life appears pointless. But you exist for a reason. That reason is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. The only way to get there is through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world. Acknowledge that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that God raised Him from the dead three days later by the power of the Holy Ghost and you will be saved. The same Spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the dead, will live in you and empower you, physically, mentally and spiritually to live the life that God intended for you, long before He created you, as a child of God, the Most High God, King of kings and Lord of lords. He'll make you His. There is no love like that, and the way to it has already been made. Receive the Lord Jesus Christ. God bless you.
@@alil6547 Then the elect are miserable, aren’t they? But nobody knows for sure who the elect and non-elect are. Only God knows those that are His. Thus it is our responsibility to preach the gospel to anyone. For whosoever will believe will be saved. Pray for me, brother, that God may help me remain steadfast in faith, and that He may cause me to open my mouth to declare the gospel of Christ anyone. Thanks for answering my questions.
@@AllOfGrace8265 no the elect have the best future ahead of them. They’re definitely not miserable. As for your calling, yes do the will of God with everything you are. But you can only reach your full potential for God when you have faith in the little, it’s an ongoing process to becoming holy.
Common grace is not love for the non-elect. It’s a curse on them. They will have to think about the good God gave them throughout eternity in hell and all they did was give God the middle finger. God allows the reprobate to live to store up more wrath for judgment for His glory and good of His elect people in Christ.
The bible is against calvinism. This pastor said that God predestined some for hell before creation. How can he love them? Like chickens? I have reared chicken, and I love them when I feed and eat them. But no one dares insult my mum. How will God invite people to heaven whom he had predestined to hell? He is not consistent. He doesn't say it straight but he does blasphem God.
It´s a horrible thing to believe that God loves some people more than he loves others, or that He loves only certain people in a "special" way. That is favoritism, and it is of the devil. God loves all people equally, always.
I understand how that makes you uncomfortable. I would challenge you to go back to Scripture. Whenever we hear things we don't think we agree with, the best course of action is to test it to the Bible as the Bereans did in Acts 17. So with an open mind and an open heart, seek to understand and seek to see what the Bible says on this topic :)
@@nathaliebonhomme8520 Actually I´m not uncomfortable at all. Are you saying you have verses that definitively prove that God loves some people less than others? And before you use the phrase "Esau I hated" in Romans 9:13, watch this interpretation: czcams.com/video/YfZrVOEfvhQ/video.html God actually loved both Jacob and Esau equally, but God was upset with Esau, because God knew that Esau would not choose to put Him first in his life. Therefore God chose Jacob for the special purpose of fulfilling His promise to Abraham.
@@faithpouliot9118 Are you talking about this video? czcams.com/video/i2RGPD-qY3Y/video.html Because here Piper does not deal with the phrase: "Esau I hated."
Would it be doctrinally accurate to compare Predetermination to rewatching a movie? You know who is going to die in the end and who is going to live because you've seen the movie before. God knows the end from the beginning so he knows what choices we will make before we are even born.
God is no respect of person we were all created in the image of God. Christ died for the ungodly and he commended his Love towards us while we were yet sinners and that's everyone.the difference is every individual chooses to either reject his Love or receive his Love. God cannot not Love because God is Love it's not that God is picking and choosing who he will save and who he will danm no God left that up to the whosoever believes.hell was created for the devil and his angels and men go there because they choose to reject the Lord and his gift of salvation it's not because they were not Loved or that Jesus didn't die for them no they chose to reject him and his Love for them Jesus said he came to his own and his own received him not but to them that received him to them gave he the power to become the son's of God even to them that believe on his name
Anyone can have faith and therefore be saved. No one is "non elect" that's not even a biblical term the only people called "the elect of God" is old testament Israel nowhere in Scripture are simple gentile believers who believe the Gospel called "the elect of God"
I have a exposition of ephesians on my channel if you want to see a robust non Calvinist interpretation of it that includes the whole of ephesians not just one or 2 verses, kindly.
kevlar kevin my youtube app is glitching. Send me or post the link please. I see both truths in Scripture. All can call upon the Lord, but there is a parallel where Scripture clearly says God elects. I see eternal security and the potential to be cut off. The complexity and simplicity of the Gospel leave me speechless.
Calvinism is such a mess. Honestly how can God predestine some to eternal Hell without any possibility of salvation simply by his own choice and yet say that he loves these people also? I get that his love for his people is different than for the lost, that is pretty easy to see, but no amount of mental gymnastics can explain how anyone could say they love a person in even the slightest sense of the word and then send them to hell based solely on God’s own random choice to do so. More likely God loves all people and died for them equally knowing some would accept and some would reject him. He loves all of them and desires none perished as the Bible says but allows those who reject him to perish even though it is not what he wants. He “elects” the saved because in his omniscience he knows who accepts and who rejects him and he in return pursues those who he knows will pursue him, much like when a man proposes to a woman and she says yes. He proposes because he knows she will say yes and choose him, and she says yes because he chose her first. That is the model of election not this “you win and you lose and you have no part in it” predestination belief which, for the intellectually honest, does not leave room for actual love of all people.
The Bible never states that God loved all people. However if you read it too it says the wicked will be no more,gone,perish,cease to exist. Not eternal conscious tormentz.
God, according to Calvinism, is the priest and Levite that sees His enemy left for dead on the road and elects to pass by him. Paul loved the lost more than God does under Calvinism.
Because under Calvinism, God didnt die for all His enemies. That was the point of my comment. God died for some of the lost, but doesn't genuinely love and desire repentance and reconciliation for all of the lost. Under Calvinism, He's the priest and Levite that passes by.
Dustin Paulson he cant be the priest and Levite that passes by because he still gives common graces instead of passing by altogether. Nevertheless, what does God owe us? Nothing. He’s not obligated to die for his enemies in the first place, yet he did.
No,God does not love the lovers,or followers of satan.or those who reject His Son Jesus.He created the wicked for the day of destruction.according to His word.He did not make them wicked,but being all knowing ,fore daw that they would go after the ways of the wicked one,the enemy to all those who love God and His Son Jesus.Anyone who rejects their creator,wasted their time here on earth.chasing material possessions instead of seeking after true fulfillment of the spirit in God..,but it does say,you will cling to one and hate the other.you cannot serve two masters.so make the right choice,its an eternal one.
Can you love and hate (abhor) at the same time? Then John Piper interprets Timothy as an Arminian, as Calvinist we would says TYPES of people to be saved. 1 Timothy chapter 2 it is talking about types of people, not every single human being. God is not an mediator for unbelievers. 1 Timothy For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
Ah yes, God loves the non-elect so much that he predestined them to eternal damnation. Nice. How can you call this love in your right mind? Is that not patently absurd on every level?
Yes. It is 100% absurd. The comeback I often hear is that it is just. That we all should marvel that anyone is saved because we all justly deserve hell. Well... Yeah sure, it is just. But that isn’t the point. This teaching of how God loves the “non elect” as defined by Calvinism, does not reflect the radical love of Christ as defined by God in the Bible and in the personhood of Christ.
@@regandanielle It’s also scary to me because under Calvinism, God determines all things *including evil actions* in the words of Piper and people who adhere to this. I cannot fathom why someone would be comfortable blaming God Himself for authoring all sin that has ever happened in history.
I can't get my head around it, if God lets us choose Him based on a hearing of the gospel, and conditionally predestines those who He knows will choose Him, then the blame falls on our own choice/choices, but if God arbitrarily chooses who He will elect based on only His grace, and mercy, then the reason my loved ones could very well be destined from eternity past to suffer in hell forever, is because God simply decided not to show them mercy... I know we are all undeserving of His mercy, but then why does He only give His mercy to some? His mercy isn't from everlasting to everlasting to those that fear Him, It's to those He has predestined and chosen... John 3:16 should then read "for God so loved His elect, that He gave His only son, that whomsoever He has chosen would not perish but have everlasting life" that isn't the God I thought I knew... But if it's biblical I guess I have to believe it...
@@jax345- I’ve come a long way out of bitterness since writing my initial comment. But brother, I would say that your doubt and confusion is a good thing that God is using so that you will have even stronger faith after your heart softens. The truth is that it is totally unbiblical that God is arbitrary. There’s nothing arbitrary about Him. He’s the most intentional being to ever exist. You’re going down the right path. You’re searching to know Him more. YWHW is truly so much more immense than human understanding. It’s a little bit absurd that people who put Calvinism or denominations as an identity before even calling themselves a follower of Christ can have the audacity of putting God in a box. The AUDACITY of pointing to God and telling him they know everything there is to know about Him. Why would the Bible repeatedly emphasize that he transcends our understanding? Human concepts of predestination, free will, time itself, etc are all below his eternal glory and wisdom. Yes God does choose people, but Jesus rebuked those who didn’t believe. The Bible is coherent in its statements littered throughout the text that God intimately desires for people to come to Him. Check out Matthew 23:37, 1 Timothy 2:4, Ezekiel 18:23 to name a few. God is literally Love itself. The beauty of The Father is that his love and mercies endure forever. Jesus came so that ALL may be saved. Otherwise, His sacrifice would have been pointless. Utterly meaningless if it meant that 2,000 years in the future The Lord chose to form your loved ones in the womb for the sole purpose of torturing them. That is absurd and demonic. Anything that detracts from the pure love of Christ is demonic. God searches each person’s heart. When is the last time you heard a Calvinist speak about spiritual warfare? Or the strongholds themselves that the enemy uses which hold us back from accepting Christ? Do they even talk about the enemy? Why the zeal and focus on “predestination”, which is an english word, and not necessarily the gospel? Truly there are two sides two every coin when we speak of the mysteries of God. But Jesus told us to preach good news, not bad news. If you think these belief structures are leading you away from Jesus, then don’t be bound by them. People are people and you should not be angry or judgmental to those with differing beliefs about God than you. But the Bible does say to judge those who lead us by their fruit. It’s your discernment on that, though. The area where I applaud Calvinistic zeal is their unwavering belief that God is just in everything He does, and that is absolutely true. But don’t lose yourself in all of this my friend. We are His children, after all. And a good child obeys his father. And a good father loves his children, not choose to abandon them before bringing them into this world. Trust Him. Trust his everlasting love and free gift of mercy!
@Ben Jones that is a strawman of arminianism, the argument is that God wants all to repent, as the verse says, not all to be saved. But anyway, since then i became calvinist so no need to try convince me, i know this verse talks only about “you” aka believers.
All Christian's are NOT the firstfruits. Most are the apostate church believers of Ephriam that are saved during the great tribulation, the great multitude. These are the pagan trinitarians that chose to follow the doctrines of the catholic church. Mystery Babylon.
I think it's amazing as I'm growing in Christ that I get a Q. about something.. and then the Lord brings things too me.. Thanks so much Pastor John, really enjoy
1 John 4:8 “... God is love” . 1 Corinthians 13:6 “ love does not rejoice in iniquity”.
"For God so Loved the World.......
Alex Musser 😂😂😂
Ethan:
Are those "laugh till you cry" faces?
What are they laughing about?
U got it. That he gave his only begotten son. That whosoever would believe in him. So the non elect are under Gods wrath. Jesus is the olive branch. If a person does not receive that they are saying to God I'm not yours. And I don't want to be your child.
@@20july1944 is that even possible?
@David n what do you think the word world means?
Faith is a gift from God, so no man can boast. Praise God!
The grace of God in Salvation is the gift not faith. The subject in Eph is the grace of God 2: 4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED;)
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of (HIS GRACE) in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
@Mysterio And where do you get that from? In Ephesians 2. Salvation is the gift by the grace of God through faith. Faith is the arm that reaches out and accepts God's gift.
A gift that you were merely 'lucky' to receive. By the Calvinist's own admission, the 'elect' are chosen by God not because he actually saw anything of value in you (lest you should boast, right?), but he chose to spare you COMPLETELY at RANDOM. Yet he also declares that he desires every man to come to him - yet he also purposefully creates them and blocks off their ability to choose him.... and so he punishes them by sending them to 'eternal conscious torment' in hell.
Because this apparently pleases him. And brings him glory.
wat
@@N.i.E.M.O Honestly I'm not big fan of election as it puts me on a pedestal I don't want to be on I feel like, but I did see mistake which was God doesn't see value in us. God chose many prophets who we're sinful or weak and chose them seeing what was inside there heart and I do believe if the elect is real since God is all knowing he just knows who is and isn't going to accept his gift although I still wouldn't know why still he wouldn't elect everyone. I would guess it wouldn't be explained and just something to have faith on. Hope this does help and answers something
@@marcusrose8971 So where does faith come from ? Is it from our flesh ? Was Abraham looking for God before God called his name? I mean I know Abraham had faith when he heard God and it was counted as righteousness. Faith comes after God calls our name .
Both Calvinism and Arminianism have their points which we must view together not separate. It would be impossible for god to be sovereign and not “predestine” what people do. Likewise we couldn’t love without freewill. God knew revelations before genesis ever happened. Therefore all things are predestined to a sovereign god. It is impossible for him to not know something therefore all things are predestined to him. We have entire free will as far as our fleshly choices. We can not choose god on our own because we disobey him by our very nature, but because Christ died for all our sins he calls each of us to him through ways we cannot know. If we choose to open the door to the call he sent first we can through him be saved, overcome our fleshly desires and when time comes humbly enter heaven. We cannot wake up and decide to choose god after a life of disobedience, however since he has chosen us all and calls us all we can accept his love or not. He is always fair and just.
Arminianism is a heresy
So good. Thank you Pastor John.
Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” There you go as God said it.
He also said Jacob have i Loved and Esau have I hated. He doesnt owe his own creations anything much less those who have become His enemies.
And that verse is a quote from what He told Moses
@@uncasunga1800 so is God permitted to be unrighteous then?
Romans 9:15 has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with the lives of those still living on the earth. The scriptures also state that God allows good things to happen to the 'wicked' and bad things to happen to the 'pure'. Keep that in mind.
@@N.i.E.M.O it has to do with salvation because it was said in the context regarding salvation
I announce throughout the universe and eternity...I give my choice Jesus Christ..
And agree to undergo all the demonic attacks and persecution for my faith...only not to miss Jesus and His saints..because its hell for me to live without His presence and church even on the earth ....but if after this He doesnt have mercy on me..and support my spiritual life..that will really be His choice and Ill eternally announce ..that He left me go...but Im horrified to live without Him...I love You Lord...Help me ..plz...Amen
What happened if i may ask brother
Pray and the Holy Spirit will open the word to you. And yes I believe God IS love. You find peace but not in this weird logic. Let the Holy Spirit lead you through his word. Love in Christ
@@tess1544 you are a weirdo
Arman you must get the focus off yourself and pn HIM.
He HAS helped us and He is ALREADY ENOUGH according to His Word
On the cross He said It is finished
Thank you Desiring God for answering all these questions biblically :)
He loves them so much, he tortures them for eternity.
God has elected all to receive His unconditional love. Will we receive that love?
Scripture reference?
Any sane person would receive that love right? The problem is we are born in sin..
So.….the 'non-elect' get their threescore and ten, during which time they may experience soft, refreshing rain. After which, they are consigned to an unimaginable eternity. And God loves them. Not enough to force them to respond through 'irresistible grace - not even enough to give them the mercy of never being born - but just enough to afflict them with a short, pointless existence.....before they pay the ultimate penalty.
this world is terrible, it’s getting worse. They suffer horribly here then they burn in hell for his glory very loving
Every breath we take is a gift from God. If we all got justice, we’d all be burning. A lot of people are forgetting the whole “we sin and rebel against God” part.
Who are these non elects? How did they manage to escape Gods love?
Exactly. Remember, the majority of humans who ever lived on this earth have lived short, meaningless, and miserable lives of hardship and starvation. How does it glorify God to send someone who lived maybe 20 to 30 years of perpetual misery and sorrow on earth to eternal conscious torment in the fires of hell? These people probably thought death would be an escape from the pain of existence - but I guess they sure are in for a rude awakening!
But then again, God is sovereign and he can do whatever he feels like, so if it pleases him to create the vast majority of humanity for the sole purpose of experiencing excruciating torment for all of eternity, who are we, oh insignificant men, to question God? As the Calvinist would say.
@@N.i.E.M.O if anyone *can* question god, it is us. Asking “who are we to question” is such a meaningless empty question to ask. Besides, if anything we are not questioning god as such, as much as we are questioning your (and others) description of and narrative about god. That is, what we are asking about is if what you say about god is true, and if that is something we should believe or something we should question. You do the exact same when you ask questions about the things said about god in other religions; you’re not question *the* god as much as you’re questioning *their* god
Jesus loves everyone for the purpose he created them..
He loves them all period
@@huntsman528 ..he loves them for the purpose they were created for.. ..do you love your neighbors children the way you love you own children.. ..shortsighted are you..
@@cddpmpls35 he knows and has an acquaintanceship with those who love him, if that is what you're asking. But God loved the world and gave his son that none might perish. As He wishes that none would perish. It seems pretty silly to deny God's love.
@@cddpmpls35 also, we are all God's children. He is our Father whether we recognize that or not, whether we have believing loyalty or not. Hence why he loves us.
@@huntsman528 ..his love is not to be equated to our love and surely our love is not a quantitative representation of his love.. ..his way regarding love are not our ways......his thoughts regarding love are not our thoughts.. ..ye do boast as though God himself were created after your image and likeness..
Great video.
America's most popular Calvinistic Pastor John Piper was on CZcams this morning. Someone asked him if God loved the un-elect. John Piper said that God loves the un-elect also.
Grace Evangelist John Stewart compiles a worthy discussion thru Holy Scriptures alone, if those things are so. "Judge ye what I say," because "Let God be true, and every man a liar":
"And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken." (Job 38:15)
"For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them." (Job 17:4)
"That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." (Job 21:30)
"Jesus answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:13)
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." (I John 3:10)
"And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered." (Malachi 3:15)
"He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors." (Psalm 7:13)
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." (II Peter 2:9)
"For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered." (Isaiah 29:10)
"Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding." (Job 39:17)
"Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret." (Job 40:12-13)
"In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 51:39)
"Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men." (Psalm 90:3)
"They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand." (Isaiah 44:18)
"With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his. He leadeth counselors away spoiled, and maketh the judges' fools." (Job 12:16-17)
"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4)
"Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." (Jeremiah 6:30)
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: a heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children." (II Peter 2:12-14)
Compiled by: facebook.com/lovejoypeaceforever
Gods love is unconditional. It doesn't matter who you are or what you believe.
I know god understands our fear, sadness and our struggles. Therefore, will he condemn those who are bitter, angry over their sad, tragic lives? Many I know are these and I hope this loving god of mercy, compassion, wisdom, love will be merciful to them. We must pray for them and love our neighbors. BU LOVE GOD MOST WITH YOUR MIGHT AND MANE.
My friend, RUN FROM CALVINISM! John Piper holds to meticulous determinism. He proclaims, "God knows the future because he performs the future". In his view, Dr. Piper is unapologetically convinced God is just as responsible for the holocaust as he is for Jeffry Dahmer's appetite. If you have 'fear and sadness' in your struggles, it is God who has decreed your sadness as well as the struggles which cause it. If some become bitter that, too, is also only by God's eternal, unchangeable decree. According to the doctrine, you can pray... but it will change nothing. God will not alter his 'unchangeable' decree 'because' of a prayer.... for he decreed the prayer as well.
NONE OF THIS IS BIBLICAL... BUT IT IS THE UNAVOIDABLE CONSEQUNENCE OF CALVINISM.
If He desires for all to be saved, why would there be an elect? If we are elected before the world began, then our paths (heaven or hell) are chosen.
mtn runner read Romans 9
And yet it is written. It bothers the most committed Calvinist. But at the end of the day, the Calvinist says, "I don't get it. It seems wrong in a sense to my natural mind, but you are God. You are just, holy and loving and I acknowledge that my imperfect mind won't ever grasp this fully in this life." You can't deny what's clearly there. On the flip side, you can't deny the clear Scripture that all who call on Him will be saved. Yet, only those the Father draws come. If you've come then you've been drawn. Nobody lives God before God draws them. We hate all that He is before he does that miraculous work in our hearts because we live all that we are and have no room for Him in our fallen, wicked hearts.
In my mind, there's a special love for his elect children, but wants the whole world saved as well.
"And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken." (Job 38:15) ; "For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them." (Job 17:4) ; "That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." (Job 21:30) ; "Jesus answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:13) ; "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." (I John 3:10) ; "And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delievered." (Malachi 3:15) ; "He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors." (Psalm 7:13) ; "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." (II Peter 2:9) ; "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered." (Isaiah 29:10) ; "Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding." (Job 39:17) ; "Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret." (Job 40:12-13) ; "In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 51:39) ; "Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men." (Psalm 90:3) ; "They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand." (Isaiah 44:18) ; "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his. He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools." (Job 12:16-17) ; "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4) ; "Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." (Jeremiah 6:30) ; "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children." (II Peter 2:12-14) Compiled by: facebook.com/lovejoypeaceforever
It may very well be that there is no possible world (possible description of reality) that God can create in which every free creature chooses to accept God’s invitation of Grace and repent. Because it is logically impossible to make someone freely do something (and God cannot do the logically impossible) it may very well be that some free creatures will always freely choose to reject God and so be lost. So God so orders the world to bring about the most saved people. And those who are saved are called the elect. I think this is the most plausible way of making sense of everything scripture teaches. It affirms both predestination and the free will of man.
Look at it...like this. If you were going to create a company, from a great idea and plan of your own..., in order to get out your product to as many people as possible ..., you would have the right to "elect" and "chose" a certain amount of employees to "establish" the need for your invention, with the result being that hopefully EVERYONE could benefit from it. God used Moses, Abraham, the prophets, the Apostles, Paul...., to preach one main subject in the whole bible...Redemption in Christ.
This is a beautiful answer.
Nomad:
What do you find "beautiful" about it?
God makes people with the predestination of eternal hell but gives them some treats for a brief time first, and calls that "love"?
20july1944 czcams.com/video/DH31wuNoois/video.html
Renato:
What is *your* answer?
I'm not listening to another Calvinist for an hour.
20july1944 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Romans 9:21-26 KJV
bible.com/bible/1/rom.9.21-26.KJV
20july1944 choose life not death. Choose God not satan . Repent forsake your sins believe in Jesus and follow Him so you can be saved from hell
God's Will Be Done!
If someone can explain this to me, how come at the end he says that we should make every effort to bring people to heaven with us, while previously speaking for minutes about the doctrine of election? It seems to me like they contradict. Perhaps I’m not familiar enough with the subject, but what’s the point of evangelism if some are elected for heaven and not others? Because if that’s the case what can human beings do( or not do )to change or affect what God has predestined?
Well, it's not that "We" bring people with us to heaven. Actually we are just God's means for the extention of His mercy and grace. God uses us to reach the people, to deliver the good news, elect or not elect. It's not up to us to determine which is which.
You See, doctrine of election does not contradict evangelism, but rather gives us confidence to this calling. Because when the message is delivered, it is then up to God and his calling to fulfill this act of grace of election. Therefore, we are confident that at least one soul, in our lifetime in Christ, will eventually received the gospel, embrace it, and change him/her.
Didn't you know that we are actually the only gospel That unbelieving people can read? The image of God must be put inside of us.
That's the purpose, once we are saved, we are not to be stagnant in our lives. Everyone has a calling, everyone has a purpose. Thats our responsibility towards God.
Hope that somehow can help.
You may love your wife with a special love, but you don't send all the other women to burn and be tormented forever.
Jonathan Broughton: the image of mariage between Christ and the Church is an image that can't tell the whole story. The image of war is also true and we as humans are naturally in rebellion against him so that's not just meaning not being married... but that we hate him, we hate the truth and his light and beauty and the only way to be reconciled is him saving us...
But I understand your feeling here. That's how I was feeling too... but God is never unfair unjust even if that's how we feel...
Romans 1:18-20 NIV
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, *who suppress the truth by their wickedness*, [19] since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. [20] For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities---his eternal power and divine nature---have been clearly seen, *being understood from what has been made*, so that people are without excuse."
Jonathan... your analogy is simple "humanistic" heresy.
----------
Jesus taught [Mat 13] the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church)
consists of TWO GROUPS.
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There are the saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God) who are destined
to eternal life and there are the unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan)
who are destined to eternal torment.
-----------
For you to pretend that Jesus PAID for the sins of the "children of Satan"
(or for Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Humanists, etc, etc)
demonstrates you do not even understand the "milk" of the Gospel,
much less the "meat"
-----------
www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com
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@@wisevirgin3405 His analogy is common sense. Every reference to "children of the devil" is a Hebrew idiomatic expression, used only to show equality of characteristics. The devil cannot create nor conceive anything; he does not have that power. Therefore the devil could never be a father of anything, especially of human beings with the image of God.
If you could ever believe that anyone is destined to eternal torment, you are drinking sour milk and eating rotten meat.
Oh, and eternal torment is not in the Bible. It comes from pagan mythologies surrounding the Church in its early years.
@@ViolinistJeff Jesus called people the "children of Satan" and "children of hell"...
read a Bible.
@@wisevirgin3405 I have read the whole Bible.
Take a biblical hermeneutics course.
Why do people go to men? Its almost as if they don't believe that God will lead them in truth. At least John here acknowledged to be in the word in the beginning of this answer and that is the source of true knowledge. But men lead us in all sorts of different directions. God will lead you in truth if you trust in Him.
There are two Greek words in the New Testament that are translated into English as "love". The words are agape and phileo. When the Bible tells his people to love their enemies, the word used is "agape", not "phileo". Agape means to walk in the commandments of God. Phileo means to have an affection for someone.
I have 4 chickens, I love them. They are diggers and cause no end of mess and they are costly to keep. I wouldn't kill one of them leave alone burn them alive which would be less cruel than keeping them burning for ever. Reading Exodus 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. .....You can see that the reason why God put the fear of death on them was that they fear him and sin not. God hates sin. We have a beautiful picture of God in Christ in John 8 and 4. Both these characters would have a job trying to be accepted in many churches today.
Crazy how.people refuse to believe the Gospel because they are so worried about the goats. They are God's children not yours and He will do with them what He wants. Puny helpless man cannot even see God but the unbelievera are constantly judging him because they do not know Him or anything about Him. And without repentance they too will be separated from Him forever. God granted repentance.
God has spoken thru his word
Jacob and esau situation
Nobody has a monopoly on god
God 'resisteth the proud' (1Pet.5:5), and 'Surely He scorneth the scorners' (Prov.3:34), meaning that 'shame shall be the promotion of fools' (Prov.3:35), which seem to despise His goodness and grace (Rom.2:4-8, Dan.12:2,3, Ps.145:20, 147:6,11, 149:4).
As my pastor puts it, if you are truly interested in God, let’s say your worried about being saved, only a believer would be concerned about their salvation, there are people who never give God or Christ a thought, they are very anti- Christ, vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, God uses the hand of evil to chastise his children. Read Jeremiah, it’s a very good book on explaining how God brings evil upon people, and God is the one who causes the people to do the evil, GOD says, I the Lord do all things, I let live, I destroy, God is sovereign, he planned out this entire play if you will, we are parts of Gods tapestry, poieo in Greek, Jim Brown Grace and Truth ministries on utube will teach you all the things that God is laying on your heart, he takes phone calls all the time, our ministry is all over the world, Jim teaches Predestination!☺️🙏
So how do I know if I am among the elect or not? Wait until I die and I either go to heaven or hell? Did I miss something in this video that tells me whether or not I am among the ones destined to go to heaven?
You know you’re apart of the elect if you have the Holy Spirit. You know you have the Holy Spirit if you’re born again. You know you’re born again if you’ve put your faith in Jesus alone for salvation. You know your faith is saving faith if you hate your sin, mortify it daily, fight the good fight, endure til the end and produce fruits of the spirit/good works as a result of the grace God has shown you.
Did you know that Calvinist have no assurance of salvation you must persevere to the end to prove he died for you and that you’re one of the elect.
@@91moviemaster did you know that that's not true, because I'm a Calvinist and have assurance, and that you're a helpless idiot?
@@cjfoster4179 ok but not every saved person is fighting the good fight some are idle and weak hearted, weak believers. Jonah and David at one point were like that.
@@91moviemaster
I pray that you don't still believe that you can be saved by the blood of Christ without persevering in Christ... 🤔?
If that is what Arminian doctrine is teaching, then run.
When God commands us to love our enemies he is not saying to love emotionally only or to only love emotionally our enemies but our love is to be shown in behavior towards our enemies with John is saying from the Scriptures he “is that God does love us emotionally however his behavior towards their non-elect is different however I don’t think scripture really truly bears this out. In fact the scriptures that John piper uses actually support the fact that the sinner can repent and turn towards God by his own free will or volition. If I host a dinner celebration and I desire, want, and invite all to come, it is a major contradiction in my behavior then to not allow all but two Barr the door purposely to some.
When he talks about marriage and a husband and a wife, I could ask every woman to be my wife. However the only one who will be my wife is the one who freely accepts my invitation. And yes it does place them in a special position of behavior.
"free will" -everyone who is a moron and doesn't understand that you don't choose your wants and that God makes you choose Christ.
God's goodness to all his creatures
The sun shines upon the righteous and unrighteous
The ungodly have fame and wealth
Famous sport legends
Movie and pop stars
Surgeons poets politicians
Military leaders..idols
Worshipped by millions
Religous leaders have many followers cults and sects
GOD So Loved The World But GOD’S Love Is NOT Promiscuous, It’s Powerful, Never Wasted, And Accomplishes GOD’S Predestined Purposes Through HIS Chosen People:
In HIS Letter (The Bible) to HIS Children (The Elect, The Chosen), GOD in the flesh (Jesus Christ) announces something (John 3:16) surprising to HIS listeners. HE announces that HIS Love for HIS Elect is no longer (John 4:22-23) based on a certain geographical portion of the world (Jerusalem), or a certain nationality of the world (the physical genealogical seeds of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob - Luke 3:8, Galatians 3:7-8, Romans 2:28-29) but GOD’S Elective-Chosen-Love is for people of ALL the world.
Within ALL geographical locations (Mark 13:27), and within ALL nationalities/colors/languages (Revelation 7:9) are HIS Elect who HE has ordained (Acts 13:48) to eternal life through HIS sacrifice on the cross. Who’s names HE wrote in the Lamb’s Book of Life before HE laid the foundations of the world.
The John 3:16 Universal Love Heresy Debunked:
For GOD so loved the world does NOT mean GOD loves EVERY individual in the world and gave HIS Only Begotten Son to die for EVERY individual in the world - it means GOD so loved HIS Children (The Elect, The Chosen) who are within ALL geographical locations (Mark 13:27), and within ALL nationalities/colors/languages (Revelation 7:9) of the world.
It’s important to note who Jesus is speaking to when HE states John 3:16. Jesus is speaking to the physical genealogical decedents of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob who ONLY know of GOD’S Elective-Chosen-Love being for the physical genealogical decedents of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob. It was shocking for them to hear that The GOD of Israel’s Elective-Chosen-Love is spread out among Gentiles as well.
John 3:16 KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
The word “believeth” is a word of ability and because of the fall of Adam humankind is spiritually dead, and a spiritually dead man has NO ability to believe - that’s why one must become Born Again to even SEE the Kingdom of GOD (John 3:3), and ONLY GOD can raise the dead.
Acts 13:48 KJV
“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”
One has to be “ordained” (given sight by GOD - John 12:38-40) to have the ability to believe and NOT EVERY individual in the world is given sight.
GOD Has Always Chosen People - Before HIS Incarnation (Old Testament) And After HIS Incarnation (New Testament):
In the Old Testament GOD chooses a people - the physical, genealogical descendants of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob and WILLS them to fulfill HIS predestined purpose -To Bring forth the promised suffering Messiah, Jesus Christ (Isaiah 53:3-7).
In the New Testament GOD chooses a people - the Spiritual descendants (Galatians 3:7-8, Romans 2:28-29) of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob who are the true worshippers GOD is seeking (John 4:22-23) through WILLED faith in Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior.
GOD has ALWAYS chosen people whom HE has WILLED by faith to accomplish HIS purposes. No one has EVER by their own freewill chosen to follow GOD by faith.
GOD’S Love Never Fails:
IF GOD so loved the world meant EVERY single individual then a vast majority of GOD’S Love will be returned void because it is a narrow road to salvation (Matthew 7:13).
GOD’S ways are not humankind’s ways (Isaiah 55:8-9) and therefore HIS Love is not like humankind’s love. GOD’S Love is ALL Powerful, Truly Irresistible and ALWAYS accomplishes what it sets out to accomplish as GOD comes and lives in HIS Elect after their Spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-6) and guides (John 14:16) them to fulfill GOD’S plan for their lives (Ephesians 2:10).
power.
Do you believe God creates people for the purpose of forcing them to be sinful?
@@christophersnedeker2065 Yes a Calvinist would be forced to agree...God has literally created souls in his own image for no other purpose than to destroy them for doing what he determined they would do without any ability to do otherwise... and, supposedly, he does this for his own 'good pleasure' and to bring himself more 'glory'. ....
BUT, if they saw a little child in a sandbox playing out scenarios like that they would not let their child play with them ... because its mental illness on display.
They have tied their proverbial leg to the Biblically unsupported lie of all men's Total Inability from birth and they cannot escape the unavoidable consequences which evolved into TULIP.
Consequently, they must massage all scripture which conflicts with the doctrine. Whenever Calvinism and Scripture collide it is Calvinism which must prevail.... at all cost.
Calvinism is unbiblical.
This video is private.?
yes by Calvinist belief God is hate to everyone but “the elect” predestined before time. Are you sure you are? You could be one of non elect and deceived and no matter what you do or how much you pray you will go to torment but be happy it will be to show His Glory. Love in Christ
And is the Aryan sure that his children are elect?
20july1944 yeap that’s the question I had.
The elect are the 144,000 that Revelations talks about, they are the Sons of God and the wise virgins. They were chosen before the foundation of the earth to wins souls in the end times and be overcome by the enemy (love not their lives even to the death). They are the first fruits that will be transformed first in the rapture. When Christ talks about His sheep's knowing His voice and having two sheep pens(John 10: 27), he was referring to the elect and the main body of the church that will be one in the new age. The elect will be His Kings and Priests and will reign with Him for 1000 years in the New Millennium.
And no it is not that God loves the elect more. It's that the elect were chosen to lead in the end times because they were fully trained. They had a very difficult life (ordained by God) in order to purge them of 'self', so they could be fully indwelled by the holy spirit. This is done so they can save souls and perform signs and wonders to counteract the antichrist during the end times harvest. This mean that they walked closer with God as he ordained certain things to happen in their lives, to humbling them, He will highlighting sins in their life they need to repent of, and will ensure they have good hearts, and that there is a clear separation from the world. By the time this maturation process is finished, they are fit to help lead the main church and the lost out of the hands of the beast. The devil will have his minions during that time and Christ will have His elect.
America's most popular Calvinistic Pastor John Piper was on CZcams this morning. Someone asked him if God loved the un-elect. John Piper said that God loves the un-elect also. Grace Evangelist John Stewart compiles a worthy discussion thru Holy Scriptures alone, if those things are so. "Judge ye what I say," because "Let God be true, and every man a liar":
"And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken." (Job 38:15)
"For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them." (Job 17:4)
"That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." (Job 21:30)
"Jesus answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:13)
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." (I John 3:10)
"And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered." (Malachi 3:15)
"He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors." (Psalm 7:13)
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." (II Peter 2:9)
"For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered." (Isaiah 29:10)
"Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding." (Job 39:17)
"Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret." (Job 40:12-13)
"In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 51:39)
"Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men." (Psalm 90:3)
"They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand." (Isaiah 44:18)
"With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his. He leadeth counselors away spoiled, and maketh the judges' fools." (Job 12:16-17)
"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4)
"Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." (Jeremiah 6:30)
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: a heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children." (II Peter 2:12-14)
Compiled by: facebook.com/lovejoypeaceforever
We still must evangelize.
I give up now. Thank you.
"every plant my father hath planted will be rooted up" has another God separate to him created the wicked?
"Traditional" teaching says that since God is a loving God, He loves everyone. Some Scriptures appear to suggest He does, but no Scripture actually says he loves everyone.
To me, The Flood is proof beyond doubt that He does not love everyone. It is unthinkable that God would, by Hid own hand, destroy [kill] those He loves. Noah and his family were part of The Elect, and those that were not were destroyed. All (men, women, children, even infants) were destroyed.
What an asshole
because they were all sinful, not to mention the nephilims, that's why God destroyed them.
John 3:16
Hey Ron, this is making the assumption that everything ends on this earth and that death is punishment. Yes the flood was a cleaning of this world because of our decision but everyone is given a choice and upon death we are asked to choose to be holy “Set Apart” with God/Jesus or truly turn away from love, grace, mercy and forgiveness.
@@JordanNHoule Hi Jordan - So much of our "traditional" teaching is drowning in the thought that we have so many choices. We do make constant choices everyday. But, if we say we have a choice in accepting God or rejecting Him, then our Salvation would depend on what [we] do. Scripture clearly tells us that Faith in Jesus is a gift from God. Jesus states from The Cross "It is finished." So, why is it that we continue to press ourselves into doing more than He has already done. We, as Christians, have been set apart, but we aren't the ones who have done that. God has set us apart as we, as sinful creatures, are unable to do that for ourselves. If God doesn't [first] act upon His creation, then no one has a chance at being saved. We constantly pat ourselves on the back when [we] think [we] have accomplished something Godly. Phil. 2:13 tells us that it is God who generates, within us, the desire to do anything good, then it is He who moves us to do it. My favorite NewsBoys song asks the question "Have you forgotten who you are, have you forgotten who's trip you're on? Everything [especially us) God has created is for Himself.
People being they key word of that....
What about John 8 verse 44 & 47,?
Why would god not choose everyone for his elect? Truly want to know. Make me understand. #outcast
NomadHeart22 He died for everyone, its so clear in scripture. (I John 2:2, John 3:16, 1 timothy 4:10) The elect are those who have put their faith in Christ. God doesnt arbitrarily or "uncondiontally" choose people for salvation.
Read Romans 9
Yianni:
Your example doesn't help me at all.
The Guy in your example *created* all 20 with a horrible disease that causes infinite and eternal suffering and the "money" is really something desperately needed like medicine.
So, I'm heart-sickened by God's cruelty -- nothing to do with justice either way.
Would you sire 20 children then only feed five of them?
In reply to you sir, Romans 8 and 9 tell us that God chose, not us. We technically "chose" but only because we were enabled to. How, if man is totally depraved in the flesh (can do no good) could man choose God on His own (which is good)? Only by God's decree. Otherwise, we are saved by our own choice, which is a WORK in itself, and we're saved by grace through faith not by works.God did die for everyone, he died for everyone THEORETICALLY. He died for the whole world (IF THE WHOLE WORLD BELIEVED!) but they don't. My father put it to me like this, "Jesus' death was SUFFICIENT for the whole world, but only EFFICIENT for the elect."
Online:
Why did God create all the rest of our fellow human vermin?
Did He have a loving purpose?
Are aborted fetuses all non elect since they cant make a choice? And if hell fire lasts for eternity, how can that be seen as loving. Especially if they are predistined to hell?
Evangelicals: Quote scripture w. Context
Calvinist: Huh?
Why does Piper never talk about the CONTEXT when he’s quoting scripture???? I seriously don’t understand.
🤔🤦♂️
he does talk about the context
because you can go check on the context yourself and see that the verse means what it says, instead of being a pathetic cowardly whiny toddler who can't think.
According to Calvinism, not only does God not love the 'non-elect' (as the define them), but rather made them for the purpose of destruction... for his 'good pleasure' and to gain more glory for himself , as-if God could even be more glorious than he is.🤔 BUT... not only that... Any Calvinist professing faith in Christ can only do so by God's effectual, unchangeable, decree. And, since they hold this to be true, and since no one is promised the 'Gift of Perseverance'... the only way afforded within the confines of Calvinist doctrine to explain those who later abandon their profession of faith is just as John Calvin did.
"Evanescent Grace", a temporary, 'fake', faith God permits some to experience for a time and later withdraws...because he never really loved them anyway. AND, if God does that to some there is absolutely no reason to believe he isn't doing to to you right now. And the real possibility of apostasy, by God's decree, now hangs over their head like the Sword of Damocles. Any attempt to point to one's Christian activities or desires as 'evidence' of salvation is useless. In Calvinism, they are only a manifestation of God's decree...for today... which may not last either.
You are worshiping a God who cannot be trusted to love anybody you know. Not even the man in the mirror.
Calvanism is all together a difficult issue simply because it is wildly unbiblical. Each one must work out his own salvation. No one is predestined to hell.
I would say God loves everyone even the non-elect, but I would say he has a special type of unique love for his elect; like for example I may love my friends but I have more of a special unique love for my children since they are my biological children. So to put it plainly God does love the non-elect but he doesn't love them redemptitily which it is his character to love everyone but he does not love the non-elect redemptitily since he sovereignly choose them for eternal destruction, I know this might sound like God is evil but he is not as him being absolutely sovereign he has the right to choose some and reject some. As the Bible says that God will have mercy on whom ever he will have mercy on and he will have compassion on whom ever he will have compassion on.
Yes but his love isnnot the same as for the elect
Under Piper's Calvinism I find it absurd to say that God "loves" the non-elect in any meaningful way. So he causes his rain to fall on the just and unjust??? And that's supposed to be counted as "loving" somehow??? And all the while the reality in the background is that before creation God determined every single sinful thought, desire or action the "unjust" would ever experience and also DETERMINED that they would be punished eternally in hell for committing these very sins that HE ultimately caused them to commit!
In John Piper's view, God determines the "unjust" to have no real ability to repent or believe and then will ultimately condemn them to a fiery torment in hell for not repenting or believing! But he gives them rain during their lifetime! How loving of God! It's like Nazis giving the Jews a candy bar while shuffling them in line toward a gas chamber and calling that "loving." Calvinism turns God's love into an unintelligible absurdity. I love John Piper, but his Calvinistic views are absurd.
If there's elected and everyone who isn't elected, why would you need to bring other people to Christ when you don't have to try anything for them to be saved since the non-elect are destined to hell and the elected who still hasn't come to Christ will eventually will even if there's no one to share them the Gospel personally?
he did another podcast on this you should listen to it!! its a good question though...
because how the hell do you know if they're the elect or not, and you're commanded to do it.
He has his favorites...
Pastor John, you quoted; ( Joh 17:9) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
This verse merely says Jesus prayed for His disciples. and f not electing them for salvation.
But you left out this verse; (Joh 17:20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
.here Jesus again reaffirmed that He not only prayed for his disciples whom God gave for service and not for salvation as evidenced by Judas Iscariot though chosen but ended up as a reprobate . Jesus also prayed for those which shall believe in Him through the word..
.here it clearly says that Jesus shall pray also for whosoever believe in Him. Jesus didn't choose them and caused them to believe or extending his saving love to some but not others and I understand no one deserved it.
.I noticed your exposition of these verses are bent on Calvinistic tone and cherry picking verse to suit your theology. That is my opinion. Thanks
Interesting...thankyou.
Tan... as always, you cannot even pretend to understand the MEANING
of a verse (or all related verses) unless you first understand the CONTEXT.
---------
I will make this very simple for you child. In Matthew 13 Jesus explains
that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of BOTH
many unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved
"wheat/sheep/saints" (sown by God).
------------
Now... do you REALLY pretend that Jesus' Atonement PAID for the sins
of the "tares/goats" sown by Satan? Is that what you believe child?
------------
Jesus was clear there are TWO kinds of people in the Christian Kingdom
(1) those who are "His sheep" destined to eternal life and
(2) those who are "children of Satan" destined to eternal torment.
------------
Unless and until you FIRST understand the CONTEXT of who are part
of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" you cannot even understand
the "milk" of the Gospel... much less the "meat".
--------------
BTW... this does not even address RELATED passages that say that some
men are CREATED to be "vessels of destruction" while other men are
created to be "vessels of mercy"... child, who do you think Jesus'
Atonement covered? Do you pretend it was those who were
created to spend eternity in torment?
---------------
Before you can even PRETEND to understand the Gospel you must
be able to harmonize your theories with ALL RELATED Scripture.
I have just shown you TWO passages that contradict your theories.
----------------
You do not have to LIKE what the Bible says... but whenever you
believe what you like and you reject (or intentionally ignore) the
verses that contradict your doctrine... then it is not the Gospel
that you believe - it is just your own personal "feelings".
----------------
www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com
---------------
@@wisevirgin3405 thanks for replying! I believed the same thing he believed, but since our country went into lockdown due to the corona virus; I read a book by arthur pink called the attributes of God. This book convinced me of what you teach! Hopefully the person you reply to will also come to the same realization as our have.
@@taukavefolau9587 .... www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com
Christ will be given all things by the father.
How can God invite people to heaven, whom he had predestined for hell even before their creation? Calvinism means blasphemy. God loves the non elect to give them good things like cattles are fed, but the elect he turns from their sins to save and sends the non elect to hell?
ORIONCOAT I think you’re not understanding the concept of “predestination”
Chill out. 👌👌
The doctrine of reprobation is a stumbling block if there ever was one.
I quit. No sense trying to seek God if he isnt seeking you.
Meadow Brooks the funny thing about this is that God isn’t obligated to seek anyone. Yet he has chosen to seek his elect. It is baffling he would seek any of us wretched sinners.
That should be a sign to you that it is false doctrine. No person is eternally reprobate. Jesus will bring all people to faith in him and to repentance from their sins.
What if you grew up in a non Christian household? How would not knowing Jesus be your fault? So if you grew up not knowing Jesus you will end up in Hell?
Read Roman's Chapter 1, God has revealed Himself to all
@@reformtalk5123 you must be very closed minded to think there aren't parts of the world where people live out their entire lives without any knowledge of god or religion.
@@questfordopamine maybe without knowledge of Jesus Christ is very likely, but not of God. Roman's chap. 1 states God has revealed himself to all. I can be close minded but thank God we have the bible to show us our failures.
@@reformtalk5123 your book is not fact. It is fiction, so you cant use that as an explanation.
@@questfordopamine well if I cant use my resource to defend my position then neither can you.
Glad I'm not a lady "loved" by Piper. Piper seems to depart from his hero Edwards here in his tap dance around this issue.
Tony at the end thanks John for explaining the "generosity" of God toward the non-elect. I'm sorry, but this is absurd to me. I've listened to John Piper for years and am familiar with his deterministic views of salvation. He believes that God ultimately determines every sinful thought and action that the non-elect will ever commit! Then he also believes that God will eternally damn them in fiery torment for committing these very sins that he determined them to commit! Generosity? Seriously? God's ultimate purpose for the non-elect was to create them in order to burn them eternally for his glory! To "display his wrath and make his glory known".... Generosity? Nonsense. In what world... in what universe can that be defined as "generous"??? This sounds like stockholm syndrome to me.
There are better ways to interpret texts like Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 than the way Calvinists do. Calvinists turn God into a monster.
If God loves the sinner, what kind of love is it to send him to hell? God hates the wicked (Psalm 11:5)...
John Piper teaches the false gospel of "common grace"
common grace is an observable fact. rain falls on the just and the unjust. you're stupid.
Does God love the non elect? Does Jesus love the SamariIans? Does Jesus love the Romans? Forgive then Father for they know not what they do.
Look at my forehead revelations22:4 numbers6:25 pslams67:1 Daniel 6:17(144,000Seal(! Yes he does read john17 I heard the names in my dream
I wonder if John Piper was one of the un-elect and thus destined to eternity in hell, whether he would still consider that God loves him.
Have you considered that God loves you?
Brandon, Of course I have considered that God loves me. He loves me so much that He sent His Son to die in my place. I don't understand why you ask this question.
Praise God our Father in the Name of Jesus Christ our Lord. I love you brother.
@@brandonburrell8517 i am pretty certain he doesnt love me. Oh well, cant do anything about that. Spouse doesnt either. I wish there was a button to push to not exsist.
@@meadowbrooks4041 I am so sorry that you feel unloved. Truly. Let me assure you though, God loves you. He loved you so much that He gave His only begotten Son for you. Jesus Christ died for your sins, every single one of them, and He rose again to justify you before the throne of God your Father.
It seems to me, based on your comment that you feel a great deal of pain and loneliness, and that life appears pointless. But you exist for a reason. That reason is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. The only way to get there is through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world. Acknowledge that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that God raised Him from the dead three days later by the power of the Holy Ghost and you will be saved. The same Spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the dead, will live in you and empower you, physically, mentally and spiritually to live the life that God intended for you, long before He created you, as a child of God, the Most High God, King of kings and Lord of lords. He'll make you His. There is no love like that, and the way to it has already been made. Receive the Lord Jesus Christ. God bless you.
Does God have power to make the non-elect elect?
yes. And He doesn't do it. Therefore, He is good. Everything He does is ultimately good in the bigger picture.
@@alil6547 Can a non-elect believe in the gospel?
@@AllOfGrace8265 no because it’s not destined
@@alil6547 Then the elect are miserable, aren’t they? But nobody knows for sure who the elect and non-elect are. Only God knows those that are His. Thus it is our responsibility to preach the gospel to anyone. For whosoever will believe will be saved. Pray for me, brother, that God may help me remain steadfast in faith, and that He may cause me to open my mouth to declare the gospel of Christ anyone. Thanks for answering my questions.
@@AllOfGrace8265 no the elect have the best future ahead of them. They’re definitely not miserable. As for your calling, yes do the will of God with everything you are. But you can only reach your full potential for God when you have faith in the little, it’s an ongoing process to becoming holy.
Common grace is not love for the non-elect. It’s a curse on them. They will have to think about the good God gave them throughout eternity in hell and all they did was give God the middle finger. God allows the reprobate to live to store up more wrath for judgment for His glory and good of His elect people in Christ.
The bible is against calvinism. This pastor said that God predestined some for hell before creation. How can he love them? Like chickens? I have reared chicken, and I love them when I feed and eat them. But no one dares insult my mum. How will God invite people to heaven whom he had predestined to hell? He is not consistent. He doesn't say it straight but he does blasphem God.
It´s a horrible thing to believe that God loves some people more than he loves others, or that He loves only certain people in a "special" way. That is favoritism, and it is of the devil. God loves all people equally, always.
I understand how that makes you uncomfortable. I would challenge you to go back to Scripture. Whenever we hear things we don't think we agree with, the best course of action is to test it to the Bible as the Bereans did in Acts 17. So with an open mind and an open heart, seek to understand and seek to see what the Bible says on this topic :)
@@nathaliebonhomme8520 Actually I´m not uncomfortable at all. Are you saying you have verses that definitively prove that God loves some people less than others? And before you use the phrase "Esau I hated" in Romans 9:13, watch this interpretation:
czcams.com/video/YfZrVOEfvhQ/video.html
God actually loved both Jacob and Esau equally, but God was upset with Esau, because God knew that Esau would not choose to put Him first in his life. Therefore God chose Jacob for the special purpose of fulfilling His promise to Abraham.
john piper did another podcast on this its interesting... I encourage you to dig deep on this
@@faithpouliot9118 Are you talking about this video? czcams.com/video/i2RGPD-qY3Y/video.html
Because here Piper does not deal with the phrase: "Esau I hated."
Would it be doctrinally accurate to compare Predetermination to rewatching a movie? You know who is going to die in the end and who is going to live because you've seen the movie before. God knows the end from the beginning so he knows what choices we will make before we are even born.
God is no respect of person we were all created in the image of God. Christ died for the ungodly and he commended his Love towards us while we were yet sinners and that's everyone.the difference is every individual chooses to either reject his Love or receive his Love. God cannot not Love because God is Love it's not that God is picking and choosing who he will save and who he will danm no God left that up to the whosoever believes.hell was created for the devil and his angels and men go there because they choose to reject the Lord and his gift of salvation it's not because they were not Loved or that Jesus didn't die for them no they chose to reject him and his Love for them Jesus said he came to his own and his own received him not but to them that received him to them gave he the power to become the son's of God even to them that believe on his name
The only accurate thing he said was that his opinion counts for very little....why did god stop making humans write books?where's the bible part 2?
Becasue the Bible is a (finished) complete story
Anyone can have faith and therefore be saved. No one is "non elect" that's not even a biblical term the only people called "the elect of God" is old testament Israel nowhere in Scripture are simple gentile believers who believe the Gospel called "the elect of God"
kevlar kevin Uhh. Read Ephesians.
Timothy Gilmore I've read ephesians brother. You have to read The whole book of ephesians and not isolate 1:4 and 2:8.
I have a exposition of ephesians on my channel if you want to see a robust non Calvinist interpretation of it that includes the whole of ephesians not just one or 2 verses, kindly.
kevlar kevin my youtube app is glitching. Send me or post the link please. I see both truths in Scripture. All can call upon the Lord, but there is a parallel where Scripture clearly says God elects. I see eternal security and the potential to be cut off. The complexity and simplicity of the Gospel leave me speechless.
The word trinity is also not in the bible, however, that doesn't mean we don't believe in it.
Calvinism is such a mess. Honestly how can God predestine some to eternal Hell without any possibility of salvation simply by his own choice and yet say that he loves these people also? I get that his love for his people is different than for the lost, that is pretty easy to see, but no amount of mental gymnastics can explain how anyone could say they love a person in even the slightest sense of the word and then send them to hell based solely on God’s own random choice to do so.
More likely God loves all people and died for them equally knowing some would accept and some would reject him. He loves all of them and desires none perished as the Bible says but allows those who reject him to perish even though it is not what he wants. He “elects” the saved because in his omniscience he knows who accepts and who rejects him and he in return pursues those who he knows will pursue him, much like when a man proposes to a woman and she says yes. He proposes because he knows she will say yes and choose him, and she says yes because he chose her first. That is the model of election not this “you win and you lose and you have no part in it” predestination belief which, for the intellectually honest, does not leave room for actual love of all people.
The Bible never states that God loved all people. However if you read it too it says the wicked will be no more,gone,perish,cease to exist. Not eternal conscious tormentz.
God, according to Calvinism, is the priest and Levite that sees His enemy left for dead on the road and elects to pass by him.
Paul loved the lost more than God does under Calvinism.
Why would you say such heresy? God DIED FOR THE LOST.
@@cjfoster4179 glad we agree
Dustin Paulson I don’t see how under Calvinism God is so bad though? Help me
Because under Calvinism, God didnt die for all His enemies. That was the point of my comment. God died for some of the lost, but doesn't genuinely love and desire repentance and reconciliation for all of the lost. Under Calvinism, He's the priest and Levite that passes by.
Dustin Paulson he cant be the priest and Levite that passes by because he still gives common graces instead of passing by altogether. Nevertheless, what does God owe us? Nothing. He’s not obligated to die for his enemies in the first place, yet he did.
I find this guys accent and inflection cringy and irritating to be honest..
his ability to rightly divide the word of God is off the charts though and I guess that matters more.
No,God does not love the lovers,or followers of satan.or those who reject His Son Jesus.He created the wicked for the day of destruction.according to His word.He did not make them wicked,but being all knowing ,fore daw that they would go after the ways of the wicked one,the enemy to all those who love God and His Son Jesus.Anyone who rejects their creator,wasted their time here on earth.chasing material possessions instead of seeking after true fulfillment of the spirit in God..,but it does say,you will cling to one and hate the other.you cannot serve two masters.so make the right choice,its an eternal one.
Can you love and hate (abhor) at the same time?
Then John Piper interprets Timothy as an Arminian, as Calvinist we would says TYPES of people to be saved. 1 Timothy chapter 2 it is talking about types of people, not every single human being. God is not an mediator for unbelievers. 1 Timothy For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
Ah yes, God loves the non-elect so much that he predestined them to eternal damnation. Nice. How can you call this love in your right mind? Is that not patently absurd on every level?
Yes. It is 100% absurd. The comeback I often hear is that it is just. That we all should marvel that anyone is saved because we all justly deserve hell. Well... Yeah sure, it is just. But that isn’t the point. This teaching of how God loves the “non elect” as defined by Calvinism, does not reflect the radical love of Christ as defined by God in the Bible and in the personhood of Christ.
@@regandanielle It’s also scary to me because under Calvinism, God determines all things *including evil actions* in the words of Piper and people who adhere to this. I cannot fathom why someone would be comfortable blaming God Himself for authoring all sin that has ever happened in history.
Nowhere in His word does it say that
I can't get my head around it, if God lets us choose Him based on a hearing of the gospel, and conditionally predestines those who He knows will choose Him, then the blame falls on our own choice/choices, but if God arbitrarily chooses who He will elect based on only His grace, and mercy, then the reason my loved ones could very well be destined from eternity past to suffer in hell forever, is because God simply decided not to show them mercy... I know we are all undeserving of His mercy, but then why does He only give His mercy to some? His mercy isn't from everlasting to everlasting to those that fear Him, It's to those He has predestined and chosen...
John 3:16 should then read "for God so loved His elect, that He gave His only son, that whomsoever He has chosen would not perish but have everlasting life"
that isn't the God I thought I knew...
But if it's biblical I guess I have to believe it...
@@jax345-
I’ve come a long way out of bitterness since writing my initial comment. But brother, I would say that your doubt and confusion is a good thing that God is using so that you will have even stronger faith after your heart softens. The truth is that it is totally unbiblical that God is arbitrary. There’s nothing arbitrary about Him. He’s the most intentional being to ever exist.
You’re going down the right path. You’re searching to know Him more. YWHW is truly so much more immense than human understanding. It’s a little bit absurd that people who put Calvinism or denominations as an identity before even calling themselves a follower of Christ can have the audacity of putting God in a box. The AUDACITY of pointing to God and telling him they know everything there is to know about Him. Why would the Bible repeatedly emphasize that he transcends our understanding? Human concepts of predestination, free will, time itself, etc are all below his eternal glory and wisdom. Yes God does choose people, but Jesus rebuked those who didn’t believe.
The Bible is coherent in its statements littered throughout the text that God intimately desires for people to come to Him. Check out Matthew 23:37, 1 Timothy 2:4, Ezekiel 18:23 to name a few. God is literally Love itself.
The beauty of The Father is that his love and mercies endure forever. Jesus came so that ALL may be saved. Otherwise, His sacrifice would have been pointless. Utterly meaningless if it meant that 2,000 years in the future The Lord chose to form your loved ones in the womb for the sole purpose of torturing them. That is absurd and demonic. Anything that detracts from the pure love of Christ is demonic. God searches each person’s heart.
When is the last time you heard a Calvinist speak about spiritual warfare? Or the strongholds themselves that the enemy uses which hold us back from accepting Christ? Do they even talk about the enemy? Why the zeal and focus on “predestination”, which is an english word, and not necessarily the gospel? Truly there are two sides two every coin when we speak of the mysteries of God. But Jesus told us to preach good news, not bad news. If you think these belief structures are leading you away from Jesus, then don’t be bound by them. People are people and you should not be angry or judgmental to those with differing beliefs about God than you. But the Bible does say to judge those who lead us by their fruit. It’s your discernment on that, though.
The area where I applaud Calvinistic zeal is their unwavering belief that God is just in everything He does, and that is absolutely true. But don’t lose yourself in all of this my friend. We are His children, after all. And a good child obeys his father. And a good father loves his children, not choose to abandon them before bringing them into this world.
Trust Him. Trust his everlasting love and free gift of mercy!
The only verse you need to dismantle calvinism is 2 Peter 3:9 :))
@Ben Jones that is a strawman of arminianism, the argument is that God wants all to repent, as the verse says, not all to be saved. But anyway, since then i became calvinist so no need to try convince me, i know this verse talks only about “you” aka believers.
This philosophy is seriously demented and toxic
hey man sorry for calling u names
@@alil6547 no worries all good bro, I should probably delete this og comment lol. I was being a little hyperbolic
God hates me
All Christian's are NOT the firstfruits. Most are the apostate church believers of Ephriam that are saved during the great tribulation, the great multitude. These are the pagan trinitarians that chose to follow the doctrines of the catholic church. Mystery Babylon.
No he does no he hates the wicked