Science! The relationship of Ballast and Weight Distribution.
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2022
- You have probably heard that rear ballast is extremely important, buy why? Neil puts this to the test by loading up the bucket with weight and watching how the weight distribution changes as rear ballast is added.
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This is probably one of your best videos, very important subject. It's very diffucult to have a properly ballasted loader tractor with so many factors. I think an easy ballast for any tractor is a bale spear with a round bale. Wheel weights will provide the best overall performance while keeping good rearend stability, but weights further out on the 3pt will have more impact at the cost of some stability.
One has to take mind is the stress that goes into the center of the machine with all that weight hanging off the back and the front... just like how that bar looked like on the 3pt with those weights on either side.
It would have been interesting to see the weigh distribution with the rear weigh and a empty bucket. Every bucket load of material gets dumped out, but you still have the weight on the back.
I had a load of cinderblocks delivered and was in a rush to get him going. I usually always have my box blade attached. That day I didn’t and I lifted the pallet off his truck. Luckily the tractor tipped forward before I cleared the trailer or it would have tipped all the way down 😰. I won’t make that mistake again 😂. Just a side note but a grapple can also get you in trouble in a hurry if you don’t have the right ballast. Great video Neil 👍
Nice work, Neil. It would have been great to see the actual scale numbers with each change you did. Thanks.
yes, not just the proportions
I thought that he was going to give us numbers since he had the scales
Neil, your content is always outstanding, but I've really been enjoying the latest videos. The science part of it is so critical, but so often left to the side or never discussed at all by most dealers. You guys are the best! 👍👍👍
I’d be curious to know what a full bucket of dirt on that specific bucket weighs.. most guys are using buckets for lifting dirt so knowing how much a full bucket weighs then seeing how that affects the front to rear weight with and with out rear ballast would be cool. None the less it was a fantastic experiment and goes to show most tractors are front end heavy right off the gate which you’ll find out quickly the first time you drive fast over bumps like you stated.. I keep about 600 lbs total rear ballast on my bx and it feels very planted even with the hydraulic pressure cranked. Iv got the quick hitch, heavy hitch, 8x 42lbs weights.. plus my tires filled.. I feel that should be about all anyone really needs for weight on their sub compact (judging from experience).
Oh you’re sponsoring a race at the Grove. That’s cool too. There are definite parallels between dirt racing and dirt work.
Neil, my loader got a little heavy recently & a rear tire came off the ground. I realized then the real risk isn't tipping forward, it's that as it tips forward, the front axel becomes a side to side teeter-totter & it WILL go over sideways. A video showing this instability when all weight is on the front axel might be helpful IF it can be demonstrated safely without damaging you or the equipment.
This is an important video for ALL new tractor owners to see! Sadly, my dealer never talked to me about the safety concerns of operating a loader. It sometimes still shocks me that I was able to walk-in, buy a tractor with a loader, backhoe and mower and never got any "safety do's and don't speech. I learned the hard way about a couple things, including how important ballast weight is! My new 2038r is so much more stable then the 1 series. Of course I added rimguard and wheel weights too, which help! Thanks for posting this. Hope more people watch it. It was really something to see you standing on the bucket tipping the tractor. So easy to do!
Great video, Neil! It would be good to mention the risk of rear wheel "hops" on downhills or slick surfaces and loss of control due to loss of breaking power.
I loved the demo of standing on the bucket and making the rear wheels lift.
I just did that today pulling an old water pipe which we attached to with a chain and 'pulled'. My rear end, with ballast in the tires, almost completely came off the ground. I would have needed another 1000 lbs or more to keep it down. But we did get the buried pipe out of the ground.
Thanks!
Appreciate the real world numbers. I use a box blade for ballast because it is Indestructible and I can hang weights inside it.
In the middle 1990’s I sold a Murray garden tractor front snow blade attached to my coworker Kevin who weighed 350+ pounds. Once winter arrived I asked Kevin if he put wheel weights on his tractor for plowing snow? He replied with “I am a wheel weight”.
Another important thing to remember is that the front axle has a weight limit, and wheel weights or liquid ballast won't do anything to remove front axle load. Don't get me wrong, I highly encourage liquid ballast, but weight on the 3 point (IE: behind the rear axle) is the only thing that will reduce front axle load.
What I find funny is Kubota doesn't state what that weight limit is on their BX tractors, I doubt they mention it for any of their tractors, and is a very important number that owners should know. They try and boast about everything else while hiding a very important piece of the number game.
I am working on a front axle video, but I don't know why fluid would not be effective. It does not have the same leverage effect, but it should help.
Exactly!! That is why l made a 1500# counterweight for my tractor.
@@MessicksEquip Hopefully it includes numbers on Kubota tractors since they seem to try and hide those, and its not a good idea.
@@MessicksEquip It'd be effective to stop the back wheels coming off the ground. It won't be effective in reducing load on the front axle, because it has no lever effect - it's not behind the back axle. If you do those measures again with the scales, using actual weights not percentages, you'll find wheel weights (or just bricks on top of the rear wheels, whatever) will change the % but not reduce the front weight. Ballast behind the rear wheels will reduce the front through the pivot on the rear axle. I'd also note that most ballast boxes carry weight further back (on the 3ph) than the weight bar you showed - which looks nice for keeping the weight close, but less pivot effect. Something like a rotary cutter will have even more effect - so much weight well behind the 3ph.
Thank you for the informative videos. Keep them coming!!
another great vid. really making me want to get a set of those scales!
Even better information about a very important topic. Thanks Neil/Messicks.
Such an awesome and informational video! Thank you.
Great informative video. And I love the orange weights on the blue tractor.
i wish you guys were open longer on Saturday. I can't wait to see the new location.
Your demo at 4:45 speaks volumes!
This demo makes me wish for an afternoon where I could just swap weights and implements around to see what produces the best result for counter weight, cost, and overall length. Thanks Neil!
Great Video and even Better Information 👌, thank you
Nice One Neil Thanks again
Good looking tractor. Good information.
Excellent video once again
Excellent information
Hi. Another great video. I enjoy your comparison videos. A topic I have been thing about is the pressure on a lawn and potential for rutting from the Bx23s vs a zero turn. I would love to see you cover that topic. Due to the price of the mower deck many say it is better to just buys zero turn.
Another great video Neil. 😁👍🚜💨😁
Tractors are always just the "base tool" or "power unit" a tractor is almost useless unless you kit it out. You add a loader, a mower, you use a blade, maybe a brush mower. When you put an attachment on a tractor, you need the accessories to run it, like a bucket or forks for the loader, and weights to ballast the machine. Or if you put a 5ft mower that weighs 600lbs on the back, you need front weights or a loader with a bucket to balance the weight on the back. I wish more dealers explained this kind of mindset. A ratchet is just a useless tool without the sockets.
That's something that many people forget is front ballast for those rear attachments/implements, yeah sure the loader helps a bit with that, but if you are doing something where you want the loader removed, you just removed several hundred pounds of front ballast, so your tractor may easily start doing wheelies with whatever attachment or implement you have on the back. Same goes for moving around trailers, everyone loves to do that but they don't think about the ballast they need to have on the front of the tractor to counteract the tongue weight of the trailer.
Great video very interesting
Great video!
So the operator eating more cheeseburgers can help?
That's my strategy.
A heavy driver can’t hurt.
Excellent video. Ballast means a lot.
Neil you nailed it, I have a neighbor with a small JD who think’s extra weight on the back will shorten the engine life!!!!!! I’ve never herd of such a thing. Keep up the good work
Heh. That lack of extra weight may shorten HIS life.
He maybe confusing rear axle bearing life, adding any weight to any bearing is going to shorten its life, but with a tractor adding ballast is by far going to outweigh not wearing out a bearing, in the less tractor rollovers they have...which at that point totally negates any sort of shortened bearing life once you roll that tractor, you are done.
@@wildbill23c I think he is confused, I’ve tried to explain, but to no avail
Unlikely to shorten the engine life - the engine doesn't care what it's pushing around, and it's made to push things around. Probably the thing that'd shorten engine life would be mowing.....just because you do it for hours and hours and it's all high rev and high load work. But a small diesel engine will outlast most subcompact tractor users.
Tell him that what he needs to care about is his axles and bearings. All the load on his front axle is definitely going to shorten the life of that thing, it's quite a bit smaller than your rear, but you're asking it to do most of the work. Spreading the load between the front and rear spreads the life.
Ultimately the problem is that tractors started out taking load on the back. They're built with all the weight forward (when empty) to counter balance the weight they think you're going to put on the back. But most sub compact tractors are used with mid-mount mowers (evenly balanced weight) or loaders (front weight). So you need to ballast them to balance that out.
I loaded the back tires on my Kubota bx1880 and I have a carry all with a couple of big rocks. Works great 👍
I have a John Deere 4052R. With my specific loader and tires the manual calls for the rear tires to be fluid filled AND have at least 800lbs on the rear 3-point for safe lifting. It was not easy to find, but since I built my ballast box I will go any other way for lifting, dirt work, and even grapple work. It makes that much difference in the handling of the tractor, even with it being a larger frame compact.
New shop!
interesting, but it would be nice to know how much is required in a ballast box when tires have fluid? how much would tire fluid weigh alone? maybe only 500 lbs is required in a ballast box with tire fluid?
that the video that needed to be made. blasting, especially on smaller tractor. and more weight in the back the more traction you have.
to remember that wheel weights only add weight to the rear end (over all weight) and only 3point weight move weight back from the front onto the rear.(also add to the overall weight)
I never had a problem with lack of power, especially in lower gear, but always break traction. more traction more "work" can be done
wheel weights help with stability, traction, and some weight distribution but to get better balance and lighten the load on the front axle you need ballast out on the 3pl.
After seeing this video I will start putting the effort out to use my ballast much more often
Does the mower deck play a factor into ballast or anything as far as loader work? Since its more centered on the tractor I'd think it wouldn't really have much ballast effect...maybe would keep someone from tipping a tractor over but most likely cause damage to the mower deck and/or the mounting system on the tractor.
I like that you have scales. Some kind of chart would be nice.
My neighbor and I pick up weeds on the beach during the summer. His little BX2300 has no ballast. There is a hill to climb getting to where we dump. If the lake weeds are too wet, he bounces in the seat to get up the hill. Even when I have my larger bucket full of wet weeds, I have no trouble climbing the hill on my JD 2025R. If I do not have my land scape rake on, I have a double Heavy Hitch weight bracket with 8 42-pound weights. I can easily add 8 more. Any suggestions for mounting wheel weights without help? They have carriage bolts that go in from the back. Took them off to get new tires mounted.
I have an lx3310. It has filled rear tires, but it would still pull the rear wheels into the air. However, I added a quick hitch, and it has helped that tremendously. Is it properly balanced? No. But it’s a hell of a lot better than it was. I think the hitch was about 90lbs
How much does putting fluid ballast in the tires of the smaller tractors like that?
I know this is not related to this video, but any chance you can do a review/comparison of the U-48-5 to a KX-40-5? Thanks in advance
Great info. I’m surprised more people don’t get hurt or killed by disregarding this important info
The first place we are going after we take delivery is to a Rim guard dealer down the road and fill the tires. We have some livestock and I don't want risk a leak with water and antifreeze. Rim guard is safer and is good to 30 degrees below zero Fahrenheit.
You got scales now, did you buy a 410 sprinter for Williams Grove.
Great video Neil. Are the Kubota BX series about the same 40-60 distribution when sitting empty?
Yes
Should a F series 72” mower be ballasted with rear weights?
a 30 gallon drum with concrete with a drawbar stuck through it works well for those smaller tractors 55 gallon drum for larger ones
It would be interesting to see what's the weight ratio with a backhoe on it
Watching the back end of the tractor come off the ground makes me realize you have all the weight of the tractor on the front axle. Way more than the front axle is rated for. Could prove to be a costly mistake.
Would have loved to see actual scale numbers for each setup. Not to mention you didnt show the distribution split at all with the loaded bucket and no ballast.
Neil, you mentioned that by adding weight to the rear of the tractor you took weight off the front axel, did the weight actually go down or did the percentage of the weight just transfer to the rear?
Weight went down
I have a backhoe on my l2501 , between subframe and hoe I’m around 1000-1200 lbs
What is the best most economical ballast fill for tires? I have heard beat juice but not cheap where I live. I have heard windshield washer fluid works? Way cheaper .
I used rv winterizing fluid. According to manufacturer it's good to -50*f.
i would like to see how it is without the mower deck, i am betting it would be worse. Been there done that, reverse wheelies are not fun, and bring a huge pucker factor in.
I know when I'm pushing it, because I have to put the tractor in 4wd due to loss of traction on the rear. Yeah, that's when I should go put the ballast box on. Sometimes I'm just doing one load though, if I go slow and keep the bucket low it's OK.
What about weight without loader ?
Didn`t Tractor Mike was pushing the issue about several Months ago ?
The important question is how much does blue paint weigh compared to orange paint
The orange paint not only weighs more, but it’s heavier in the rear! 🤣
It would be interesting to see how a backhoe changes the bias. I rely on my backhoe for ballast.
Neil, you said something that was a little confusing. You said that putting weight on the rear of the tractor "took weight off of the front axle". I don't see how that is possible. You may have decreased the "%" of weight on the front axle, but not actual weight.
The statement is correct. The rear tires act as a lever and shifts weight from the front axle to the rear.
@@MessicksEquip You would need to show me the actual scale readings to convince me.
The capacity at carry height is generally less because the bucker is further away from the tractor than at full height.
I think that's wrong. It's about loader geometry and the load on the rams, rather than just the pivot from the front. If you could lift less at low height, you'd have no way to get it to full height. My tractor regularly can lift things 1 foot off the ground that it won't lift any higher, and most tractor manufacturers publish a height/weight lift curve for their loaders, it clearly shows more capacity at lower levels.
And if you put pallet forks on the front it moved weight of the load even further front
You left out an extremely important fact. Wheel weights and tire fluid ballast will have ZERO effect on the front axle load. The teeter totter effect of the rear weights taking weight off the front axle only occurs with sprung weights BEHIND the rear axle. The disadvantage of using rear suitcase weights is that they put more stress on the rear axle and rear axle bearings. Wheel weights and tire fluid ballast are unsprung weight and will not reduce the load on the front axle. But unsprung weights do not put additional stress on the axle or axle bearings because it is supported solely by the air in the tire. You should do a driving test. 3/4 full bucket of dirt driven on an uneven surface done with no weights, rear suit case weights, and 3rd with wheel weights / tire fluid ballast. Show us the driving stabilities of all three.
So, what you're saying is they need to have the engine mounted in the rear. :-)
never saw one flip end 0ver end, Put ot on a slope and show how easy you can pullukte ROPS over
6:33 You sure about that? Did you truly remove weight from the front axle?
Did the front axle scales show less weight? or just less proportion of the weight?
Yes, it removes weight from the front axle. Rear axle acts as a lever.
Question, how much weight is too much? Kubota dealer told me not to put wheel weights on since I had liquid ballast. He said it was too much for the axle. Comments? L3301 Kubota
The rule I know is 50% of the machine's weight is okay as ballast.
Different sorts of ballast I'd have thought.
Liquid ballast and wheel weights don't directly put weight on the axle - the weight goes directly through the tire to the ground. They do put twisting load on the axle when driving (but I wouldn't have thought too much), and I guess going over bumps and things that'd add load to as it bounces around.
Ballast on the 3ph would put much more load on the axles and bearings, because that weight has to transfer through the bearings and axles to get to the wheels and the ground. 3ph ballast I still think is better - because it pivots on the rear axle and reduces load on the front axle (a big thing on a subcompact), and because you can take it off when you don't need it (like for mowing). Horses for courses, but I prefer ballast boxes.
loaded tires are the best
Dang Neil.. You have been eating some cornbread and gravy. The days of tucking that shirt in are gone. Good video though.
Neil I like your vids, keep them coming. Today you are off the mark a little bit. You were doing% of weight at each end of the machine, you did not actually give us lbs. at front or rear. your statement that adding weight to to rear takes weight off the front is wrong. If with the load in the bucket you have 2000 lbs on your front axle adding weight to the rear will make it more stable but you still have 2000 on the front axle, ask your front bearings if you don, t agree with me. LOL I wish you had of put actual # to the front and rear at each step.
I don't believe you are correct. If you added weight between the rear axle and the bucket, I would agree with you. But when you add weight to the 3-point hitch, you're catilivering up any weight in front of the rear axle. If you added sufficient weight to the rear (and we're talking A LOT), you could lift the front wheels off the ground. Ergo, the front wheel bearings do NOT have 2000 pounds on them.
@@JCWren you’re correct, the tractor acts as a fulcrum. Put weight on the back, it pulls it off the front
@@JCWren I hope Neil does this again with actual weight in LBS. on each tire. You are right about weight past the rear wheels, but most of what neil did was to get it babk on the ground
Agreed, I would like to see actual numbers also. I know he was able to lift the rear tires by bouncing on the bucket, but I'd have liked to have seen the weight in pounds without him on it.
NOOO!! you got rid of your intro!! :(
Good job pick the cheapest tractor .