The Watch on Mordor - Middle-earth's "Night's Watch"
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- In this video, we will look at the Watch on Mordor, Gondor's two thousand year long vigil over the land of Mordor, and what eventually happened to it.
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Having an order of knights and warriors defending a large barrier that separates civilization from... well, whatever lies beyond, is such an ominous story idea.
Not having one can have such terrible consequences... Western nations are beginning to learn that.
I’m imagining Roman soldiers manning Hadrian’s Wall.
@@amh9494oh calm down. For the average western person things like indoor plumbing and electricity came in the mid 20th century due to the social programs also associated with those oh so terrible loony left ideas such as 'maybe militarily occupying half of africa is expensive and not actually beneficial to anyone but the manor lords'
By technology standards alone we are so much better, being introduced to spicy food by the tiny amount of people with tbe money to even leave the 3rd world really isnt so scary
Sauron used the slow drive of time and patience to gradually get what he wanted. That was the great difference between Sauron Morgoth and Saruman, Saruon had far more patience and cunning to wait.
2nd in command have always been more cunning....
Sauron, Tywin as Hand Of King, Black Zetsu....
Nah dude Morgoth also had a great patience, intelligence and cunning mind, he waited 3 long ages in the prison of the valar, spent some 400 years under siege all the while preparing plans that would decimate all middle earth
@@farahahmed8201 Morgoth wasn't being patient when it came to being imprisoned; he had no choice. Sauron on the other hand kept Morgoth's organization functioning while Morgoth was imprisoned.
@@farahahmed8201 I mean not really, he spent ages repenting and lying, not really patiently waiting.
@@aurelian2668 Still, doesn't make him any less epic and cool, maybe tho I'm too much of a Melkor fan lol, he is the greatest and most powerful villain ever
One of my favorite details in Lord of the Rings where you can see all the kingly designs on Cirith Ungol's tower. Like a carved stone face of the King with a built in stone dropping device. But over the years orcs had """maintained""" the tower by strapping iron brackets and wooden platforms in places.
Those details are only on the screen for seconds but do amazing world building
I'll have to look for that next time
I'll have to look for that next time
I've always wondered about Durthang. Ever since reading the novels and playing the old War of the Ring board game from the 1970s in which is one of the fortresses that Sauron player had (in fact three Nazgul were stationed there, with three in Minas Morgul and three in Dol Guldur). But so little is known about it
That game was the best. And the worst. Any WOTR game that has Saruman as a separate faction is awesome. But the individual combat system sucked, there was no way to come back once you started losing. It's a pity, as that game was dripping with flavor.
@@Heike-- I agree 100%
'Mordor is coming'
Ngl this sounds like a great title for a video game
The Witch King in the norff!
@@MikaelKKarlsson I’m not the only one?
-Boromir
Yo badass!
Just realised the parallels between the Siege of Angband and the Watch on Mordor. Both arose due to the free peoples of Middle Earth winning a great victory over a dark lord. Both the siege and the watch lasted for many years. Both had armies which were partially garrisoned around the area being watched. In both cases the east could not be truly watched.
Neither the Noldor nor Gondor could respectively attack and conquer the land they were besieging/watching. Both the Siege of Angband and the Watch on Mordor eventually came to end an due to attacks by armies commanded by a dark lord.
Finally, in both cases the failure of the Siege of Angband and the Watch on Mordor caused the power and dominion of the dark lord (Morgoth and Sauron respectively) to vastly grow and begin to overwhelm the nearby lands of Elves and Men.
There is some sort of parallel between those, indeed the siege of Angband though is also against an active base of Enemy operations, while Mordor at the time of Gondorian watch or most of it, was rather disorganized, with remnants of dark creatures here and there, small raiding possibly, but without central leadership, the armies of Mordor were either destroyed in the War of the Last Alliance or dispersed (we are told that the remnants that survived of the army per se fled east with the Ringwraiths, but there would be other dark things remaining inside, scattered, Orcs were capable of digging deep tunnels, inhabiting caves and so would be hiding so this mountainous territory of the northern Mordor, the actual wasteland would be difficult to actually control).
" It is unlikely that any news of Sauron's fall had reached them, for he had been straitly besieged in Mordor and all his forces had been destroyed. If any few had escaped, they had fled far to the East with the Ringwraiths." Unfinished Tales, Disaster of Gladden Fields
With Angband we also had a fortress full of things, often incredibly vast underground complex and the land beyond Dor Daedeloth and only Ard Galen for a time was habitable enough with grassland that could support grazing, especially useful for herds of horses and so on. Mordor has the northern area which is the least hospitable, while the southern region of Nurn is actually more fertile and capable of supporting...though we don't even fully know if Gondorians controlled that area, though it would seem natural to have some small presence there. Both were quite similar in many regards, the siege of Andband had various outposts and camps and even roaming patrols:
"[The] people of Hador, being hardy to endure cold and long wandering, feared not at times to go far into the north and there keep watch upon the movements of the Enemy."
The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 17, Of the Coming of Men into the West
One can imagine that outside of the garrisoned fortresses there would be similar measures employed in the watch over Mordor, the roads within the Black Land and some smaller outposts there are references to watch towers and small fortress outposts along Morgai, some of them are probably made by Orcs but maybe some date back to Gondorian times. There was some infrastructure there along Morgai but it's unclear whether it was made by Orcs or Gondorians:
"The eastern faces of the Ephel Duath were sheer, falling in cliff and precipice to the black trough that lay between them and the inner ridge. A short way beyond the way-meeting, after another steep incline, a flying bridge of stone leapt over the chasm and bore the road across into the tumbled slopes and glens of the Morgai."
...
"Beyond its stony course they saw a beaten path that wound its way under the feet of the westward cliffs. Had they known, they could have reached it quicker, for it was a track that left the main Morgul-road at the western bridge-end and went down by a long stair cut in the rock to the valley's bottom. It was used by patrols or by messengers going swiftly to lesser posts and strongholds north-away, between Cirith Ungol and the narrows of Isenmouthe, the iron jaws of Carach Angren."
Siege of Angband was using wide area the ring surrounding the closest area, the fortresses along the Ered Wethrin, the camps of horsemen of Hithlum the riders of Feanorians patrolling plains of Lothlann to the east, the forts and watch towers of hills of Dorthonion:
"Fingon prince of Hithlum rode against him with archers on horseback…"
"Fingolfin and Fingon his son held Hithlum…. But their chief fortress was at Eithel Sirion in the east of Ered Wethrin, whence they kept watch upon Ard-galen; and their cavalry rode upon that plain even to the shadow of Thangorodrim… their people were the most hardy and valiant, most feared by the Orcs and most hated by Morgoth."
Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 14, Of Beleriand and Its Realms
"…The watch-fires burned low, and the guards were few; on the plain few were waking in the camps of the horsemen of Hithlum. Then suddenly Morgoth sent forth great rivers of flame that ran down swifter than Balrogs from Thangorodrim, and poured over all the plain; and the Mountains of Iron belched forth fires of many poisonous hues, and the fume of them stank upon the air, and was deadly… Thus began the fourth of the great battles, Dagor Bragollach, the Battle of Sudden Flame."
The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 18, Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
one does not simply watch over Mordor
Now i really want a video like this on the Dunedain Rangers.
I have to wonder if the chaos surrounding the fall of Khazad-dûm and the resulting depopulation of Lórien and abandonment of Edhellond also played a role in the sorry state Gondor was in as the second millennium of the Third Age drew to a close. The epicenter of that was far away, but Edhellond was right there in Gondor, so...
To be fair, both The Night's Watch and The Watch On Mordor are likely based on actual Roman border patrols/frontier troops from the olden times, considering Gondor is sort of based on Medieval Rome and The Wall from ASOIAF is based on Hadrian's wall.
GRRM's Nightwatch was probably inspired by Dino Buzatti's "The Tartar Steppe"
Martin is a self-confessed LOTR fan and has openly stated he took a lot of inspiration for GOT from LOTR. Knights Watch is undoubtedly 'inspired' by the Watch on Mordor with no hint of coincidence.
Idk Martin said his greatest inspiration for the watch was Hadrian’s Wall in the Roman Empire. I don’t think he would blatantly steal from Tolkien without giving credit
@@Ollie4101-wg3wy yeah, the Wheel Of Time also had a watch against its own dark lord in the north. That one was more Tolkien.
Martin was just redoing Hadrian, against the Scotts and the Grahams and the Campbells... and everybody hates the Johnstones.
@@Ollie4101-wg3wy yeah I guess most of the similarities would be coincidental, I mean nobody suspects that Martin would have taken the name of Castamere from .....Castamir the Usurper of Tolkien :) it's rather accidental I guess, though Martin did read Lotr (still it's unclear if he read the appendices for instance so we don't know if hew even knew of the Gondorian civil war the Kin-strife :) and in any case like you said he had his own historical inspirations, the War of the Roses the Hadrian wall etc.)
And atop the Black Gate stood a man named Talion. And his story was great
"As long as I breath in my body... my fate is my own" -Talion
I like to imagine the outcasts in Udun. I'm glad you mentioned shadow of mordor.
From what I know the black gate wasn't manned for around a few centuries. Than reoccupied by uruks.
So for me I like the rangers. Around like something among 20-40 rangers guarding the post as northmen from Rhovannia being exiled by Gondor makes sense to me. Which isn't a lot.
In Udun the outcasts are in shadow of mordor are human frontiersmen. Descendants of criminals, exiles, deserters, people outcasted for any variety of reason. And Gondor used to rule Rhovannia and Rohan and the humans there don't have Numenorean blood so didn't have privileges protecting them. I like the idea of there being a unofficial 20 or so rangers left long after the watch ended. Just volunteers and exiles. And a load of outcasts. Fighting the return of orcs and uruks.
It didn't nor doesn't seem impossible to me.
Listen if you have about 30 random rangers who committed a crime like murdering a nobleman (Talion doing that) than it makes sense to me to reinstate a unofficial watch long after the watch ended and leave them in Udun to be butchered by returning Uruk-Hai.
In Tolkien lore the main date of official abandonment or disbanding of the watch on the borders of Mordor was after Great Plague, but some particular fortresses were in use for some centuries later:
"Atanatar Alcarin son of Hyarmendacil lived in great splendour, so that men said precious stones are pebbles in Gondor for children to play with. But Atanatar loved ease and did nothing to maintain the power that he had inherited, and his two sons were of like temper. The waning of Gondor had already begun before he died, and was doubtless observed by its enemies. The watch upon Mordor was neglected.
The second and greatest evil came upon Gondor in the reign of Telemnar, the twenty-sixth king, whose father Minardil, son of Eldacar, was slain at Pelargir by the Corsairs of Umbar. (They were led by Angamaitë and Sangahyando, the great-grandsons of Castamir.) Soon after a deadly plague came with dark winds out of the East The King and all his children died, and great numbers of the people of Gondor, especially those that lived in Osgiliath. Then for weariness and fewness of men the watch on the borders of Mordor ceased and the fortresses that guarded the passes were unmanned."
...
"1640 […] Mordor is left unguarded."
The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix B, The Tale of Years: The Third Age
"Tarondor had the longest reign of all the Kings of Gondor (162 years), but was unable to do more than attempt to re-establish life and order within his borders. Owing to the fewness of his people the watch on Mordor was neglected and the fortresses guarding the passes became emptied."
The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 7, The Heirs of Elendil: The Southern Line of Gondor: The Anárioni
Morannon was also manned for a time after during the war with Wainriders until Godnor entirely lost hold of their eastern territories and so Morannon would be completely abandoned:
". When all was ready they set out for Gondor from the East, moving with all the speed they could along the line of the Ered Lithui, where their approach was not observed until too late. So it came to pass that the head of the army of Gondor had only drawn level with the Gates of Mordor (the Morannon) when a great dust borne on a wind from the East announced the oncoming of the enemy vanguard [2]."
...
2. An isolated note associated with the text remarks that at this period the Morannon was still in the control of Gondor, and the two Watchtowers east and west of it ... were still manned. The road through Ithilien was still in full repair as far as the Morannon; and there it met a road going north ... and another going east along the line of Ered Lithui. [Neither of these roads is marked on the maps to the Lord of the Rings.] The eastward road extended to a point north of the site of Barad-dûr; it had never been completed further, and what had been made was now long neglected. Nonetheless its first fifty miles, which had once been fully constructed, greatly speeded the Wainriders' approach.
Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 2, Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan: Notes, Note 15
...
"The third evil was the invasion of the Wainriders, which sapped the waning strength of Gondor in wars that lasted for almost a hundred years. The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from the East; but they were stronger and better armed than any that had appeared before. They journeyed in great wains, and their chieftains fought in chariots. Stirred
up, as was afterwards seen, by the emissaries of Sauron, they made a sudden assault upon Gondor, and King Narmacil II was slain in battle with them beyond Anduin in 1856. The people of eastern and southern Rhovanion were enslaved; and the frontiers of Gondor were for that time withdrawn to the Anduin and the Emyn Muil. [At this time it is thought that the Ringwraiths re-entered Mordor.]"
...
1856
Gondor loses its eastern territories, and Narmacil II falls in battle.
1899
King Calimehtar defeats the Wainriders on Dagorlad."
...
"1980
The Witch-king comes to Mordor and there gathers the Nazgûl. A Balrog appears in Moria, and slays Durin VI."
...
"2000
The Nazgûl issue from Mordor and besiege Minas Ithil.
2002
Fall of Minas Ithil, afterwards known as Minas Morgul. The palantír is captured."
The games are obviously rather lore breaking in many aspects, and they do surprsingly little to actually explore this watch and Gondorian efforts in guarding Mordor or it's long history!
Like the quote say there were periods when the watch was neglected so one can see a sort of deterioration as the interests of Gondor were different and the duty of guarding Mordor against any sort of remaining dark creatures remnants in Mordor or guarding against Enemy claiming Mordor back and entering it was of less importance at various periods until it was completely disbanded and only particular fortresses lasted longer.
Cirith Ungol for instance is said to be "yielded" by treachery:
"As he gazed at it suddenly Sam understood, almost with a shock, that this stronghold had been built not to keep enemies out of Mordor, but to keep them in. It was indeed one of the works of Gondor long ago, an eastern outpost of the defences of Ithilien, made when, after the Last Alliance, Men of Westernesse kept watch on the evil land of Sauron where his creatures still lurked. But as with Narchost and Carchost, the Towers of the Teeth, so here too the vigilance had failed, and treachery had yielded up the Tower to the Lord of the Ringwraiths, and now for long years it had been held by evil things. Since his return to Mordor, Sauron had found it useful; for he had few servants but many slaves of fear, and still its chief purpose as of old was to prevent escape from Mordor. Though if an enemy were so rash as to try to enter that land secretly, then it was also a last unsleeping guard against any that might pass the vigilance of Morgul and of Shelob."
This treachery part is interesting, though it relates to Cirith Ungol the games used that for the Minas Ithil siege, which itself is in entirely different time period (the games are supposed to be set in between The Hobbit and Lotr) it would have been interesting to have a different more lore friendly game with proper exploration of the Gondorian watch.
The Rangers as formation in Gondor seem to exist only later as Rangers of Ithilien are established but there might have been some tradition of Ranger-like stealth using warriors :) before that. Rangers of Ithilien are formation made around the years 2900s, at the time most of the Ithilien inhabitants start to desert it due to the orc attacks, the secret strongholds like Henneth Annun are build (year 2901 T.A.) during reign of Steward Turin II.
No doubt initially the watch would be more honorable service, more like part of the military forces of Gondor with permanent garrisons (or at best with shifts of duty, just like the garrisons of the Beacon-hills: "The Beacon-wardens were the only inhabitants of the Wood, save wild beasts; they housed in lodges in the trees near the summit, but they did not stay long, unless held there by foul weather, and they came and went in turns of duty."), Rangers of the North were established soon after the fall of the Arnor, but again maybe the Numenoreans had some traditions of stealth using warriors, experts at guerilla warfare and basically 'special forces' :) maybe they all took the tradiiton from glorifying the deed of Isildur who was known for his stealthy infiltration heheheh of the courts of the king in Armenelos in Numenor.
The outlaws are obviously possible to exist, as Tolkien notes that on the frontier lands there would be some, as he mentions them present in the early Fourth Age when the effor of recolonization of Ithilien would be performed:
"Until much had been done by the restored King, the P. of Ithilien would be the resident march-warden of Gondor, in its main eastward outpost - and also would have many duties in rehabilitating the lost territory, and clearing it of outlaws and orc-remnants, not to speak of the dreadful vale of Minas Ithil (Morgul). "
@@fantasywind3923 do you think Talion's group can possibly exist?
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 unlikely on Morannon! (at least at the time period that game uses as setting) I think that if such a group would exist...definitely it would be Cirith Ungol post, and this could have been used for a material of a more lore friendly version of Shadow of Mordor game hehehe, the 'treachery yielding the tower' could be used in story in greater capacity (sure Shadow of War uses the treason of the commander of Minas Ithil but it stil lreferred to Cirith Ungol in texts and the Minas Ithil situation is something that the game makers didn't considerate enough, I mean without the fall of Minas Ithil the name of the capital of Gondor wouldn't be Minas TIRITH, there would be no reason to change the name from Minas ANOR :), plus it was the SIEGE, lasting two years, and while we don't know what sort of response was made from Godnor to this event, one can imagine that Gondor forces would try to lift the siege so most likely the besieging forces had to maintain some sort of blockade of the entrance to the valley, and while this would be uncomfortable to lay siege while having enemy at the rear it could be done with Witch-king's resources and tactical skill, plus Orcs doing some earth works, trenches like they did at Pelennor and other stuff, fortifying the valley this would explain it in more 'realistic way'), the loss of the eastern territories, meaning east-lands beyond Anduin north and north-east of Ithlien would mean that maintainging so far fluing outpost at Black Gate would be near impossible...so only Cirith Ungol and Minas Ithil remain as viable options, the north Ithilien would be under the threat anyway but Ithilien was still inhabited and as a fertile agricultural region of Gondor it would be defended and the mountain fortresses and the city of Isildur would maintain at least the vestige of the martial capability to defend the land along with the natural mountain border providing some cover...though of course it's not much of a problem for Orcs who tunnel and mine and could open new gates and openings into the lowlands from the mountains to raid...like they did in the Vale of Anduin...still I was always of opinion that if to make the Shadow of Mordor/War actually canon compliant, one could do it brilliantly, setting it in different time period (this would make a Gollum cameo impossible but still his role in the games is small anyway) different time period would allow to explore also lore elements rarely touched upon like the reigns of the last two kings Earnil II and Earnur, who could be even NPC's characters in the game ahaha :), Talion also maybe having possiblity of visting the king being a messenger between the besieged and so on (the game is a fanfci anyway but one could do so much more) nad explore the rivalry between Witch-king and Earnur and maybe hinting at his final fate! Anyway I started rambling about how to 'fix' the plot of the games hehe, I usually prefer when the lore is maintained as closely as possible, and the last reference to the garrisons of Towers of the Teeth being during war with Wainriders, and soon after all defenses being removed to the line of Anduin with only Ithilien south of Morannon remaining the de facto frontier...this would mean abandonment of the Morannon completely.
Only Ithilien defenses would be viable, as people still inhabited the region, there was eastern side of Osgiliath thoug itself it was already getting deserted slowly and surely, Minas Ithil being major center in the area.
@@fantasywind3923 you should be a article writer. You can write long sentences
I love the use of LotRO's soundtrack for the background of these videos 😁
Sometimes I wish Season 8 wiped my memory, that way I couldn't remember that tragedy
If the Crab People invade, I won't be meeting them with a sword. Rather a fork, a claw cracker, a bib, and lots of melted butter.
Fantastic. I've always wanted to hear more about this. ❤
Just to ask, we know the fate of Cirith Ungol now, betrayed from within but what about the garrison of the Black Gate? It must have been either abandoned beforehand or fell at a similar time to hold against Gondor, otherwise I could see a military minded experience king as Earnil using the pass to outflank the army besieging Minis Ithil creating a Caesar situation where a besieging army is also being besieged itself.
I think it's possible that the garrison at the Black Gate withdrew after the Disaster at the Morannon. I think it was almost certainly held by Sauron's forces by the time Minas Ithil was besieged.
Great video about a very unknown topic - it opened my eyes, ty
To be honest I would probably say that yes, the Night's Watch is if not an exact copy, then clearly inspired by the Watch on Mordor. And I've heard a theory that puts an exquisite twist on the situation - just as a lot of Mordor's fortifications were actually built by Gondor, the Wall was built by the Others and just as when Gondor's power waned, those forts were abandoned and seized by the enemy - perhaps connected in some way to the rise of the Valyrian Freehold or at least the conditions that made it possible.
So in A Song of Ice and Fire, men are literally orcs.
I swear my INT and WIS have increased by at least 4 point after watching this video. The way you effortlessly explain Tolkiens world is awe inspiring my man ❤
Whoever was watching sure dropped the ball.
Great video!!!
Just made my day at work by uploading, cheers and farewell.
Super interesting topic!
I’d like it if you could go into what Mordor was like during most of the Third Age. I think a dormant Mordor would have looked more like a parched desert land. Orodruin was dormant so it might have been lighter too. When we think of Gondor building fortresses in and around Mordor, we think of Mordor as it is at the end of the Third Age when Sauron had returned to it but it probably wasn’t anything like that for much of it. Numenorean outposts would have been fortresses built out in deserts or even sparse tundra.
I actually think Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War did a good job of showing a Mordor, that whilst still far from hospitable, was not a volcanic wasteland.
The northern region of Mordor, the Morgai and Gorgoroth would be probably always very harsh environment, it's closer to arid desert the ashen plains from old eruptions, rocks, the northern areas still had some plant life but it was quite harsh, the Morgai region along the Ephel Duath Mountains of Shadow received some water, there were even old water courses, ravines, and even some swampy pools of water and streams:
"But Sam would have laughed, if he had dared. Half fearing a breaking plunge down on to unseen rocks the hobbits landed, in a drop of no more than a dozen feet, with a thud and a crunch into the last thing that they had expected: a tangle of thorny bushes. There Sam lay still, softly sucking a scratched hand.
When the sound of hoof and foot had passed he ventured a whisper. 'Bless me, Mr. Frodo, but I didn't know as anything grew in Mordor! But if I had a'known, this is just what I'd have looked for. These thorns must be a foot long by the feel of them; they've stuck through everything I've got on. Wish I'd a'put that mail-shirt on!'
'Orc-mail doesn't keep these thorns out,' said Frodo. 'Not even a leather jerkin is any good.'
They had a struggle to get out of the thicket. The thorns and briars were as tough as wire and as clinging as claws. Their cloaks were rent and tattered before they broke free at last."
I don't think this area environment changed too much, it was always sort in the shadow of the mountains and so the sea winds carrying the moisture would probably be stayed on the mountains and the region east would receive little fall but not entirely devoid of water.
"The easterly wind that had been blowing ever since they left Ithilien now seemed dead. Slowly and painfully they clambered down, groping, stumbling, scrambling among rock and briar and dead wood in the blind shadows, down and down until they could go no further."
...
"They had trudged for more than an hour when they heard a sound that brought them to a halt. Unbelievable, but unmistakable. Water trickling. Out of a gully on the left, so sharp and narrow that it looked as if the black cliff had been cloven by some huge axe, water came dripping down: the last remains, maybe, of some sweet rain gathered from sunlit seas, but ill-fated to fall at last upon the walls of the Black Land and wander fruitless down into the dust. Here it came out of the rock in a little falling streamlet, and flowed across the path, and turning south ran away swiftly to be lost among the dead stones."
...
"The water was cool but not icy, and it had an unpleasant taste, at once bitter and oily, or so they would have said at home. Here it seemed beyond all praise, and beyond fear or prudence. They drank their fill, and Sam replenished his water-bottle. After that Frodo felt easier, and they went on for several miles, until the broadening of the road and the beginnings of a rough wall along its edge warned them that they were drawing near to another orc-hold."
...
"The river-bed was now some way below the path. They scrambled down to it, and began to cross it. To their surprise they came upon dark pools fed by threads of water trickling down from some source higher up the valley. Upon its outer marges under the westward mountains Mordor was a dying land, but it was not yet dead. And here things still grew, harsh, twisted, bitter, struggling for life. In the glens of the Morgai on the other side of the valley low scrubby trees lurked and clung, coarse grey grass-tussocks fought with the stones, and withered mosses crawled on them; and everywhere great writhing, tangled brambles sprawled. Some had long stabbing thorns, some hooked barbs that rent like knives. The sullen shrivelled leaves of a past year hung on them, grating and rattling in the sad airs, but their maggot-ridden buds were only just opening. Flies, dun or grey, or black, marked like orcs with a red eye-shaped blotch, buzzed and stung; and above the briar-thickets clouds of hungry midges danced and reeled."
While those descriptions are from the time of the story, one can assume that the environment of the northern Mordor would be similar in the past if a bit more healthy before Sauron return and his shadow tainting the land again and Orodruin activity blocking the sun and spreading poisonous fumes and ashes everywhere.
"They had drunk again from the pools in the valley, but they were very thirsty again. There was a bitter tang in the air of Mordor that dried the mouth. When Sam thought of water even his hopeful spirit quailed. Beyond the Morgai there was the dreadful plain of Gorgoroth to cross."
So the northern area in the early Third Age would be no doubt a bit healthier but still harsh, like a sort of desert, semi desert environs mostly dry, wtih some grassland, bushes basically a half desert bushlands....while southern region of Nurn would be more fertile, with four rivers and their valleys, and the great lake inland Sea of Nurnen and it's bitter waters, so it would be no doubt more lush. Gorgoroth and Lithlad plains though seemed to be always more or less ashen wasteland a sort of volcanic desert, while Orodruin before Sauron's return would be less active, staying dormant for longer still the vegetation in that area would be scarce if not completely absent.
feels a bit like a seal of approval on Tarondor from the Valar with what he did and how long he lived
very good video thanks :)
I think if the Watch had stayed on till the late third age, it would have slowed the fall of Mordor back to the forces of Sauron. But I will say as soon as The Witch King or Sauron comes to take residence in the land I think any guard no matter their strength would be forced to keel and retreat back to more secure locations, Minas Ithil. Such a powerful force or commanding presence would make the evil servants in Mordor become overwhelming for the Gondorians in a matter of at best a few decades or worse mere years.
As much as I enjoyed Shadow of War, it was whacky how they got the part about King Earnur meeting his fate hundreds of years ago when he rode out alone to face the Witch King right… when the entire reason he was baited into the confrontation was that Minas Ithtil had been taken by the Nine.
The games are VERY lore breaking! I mean they definitely contradict major timeline events and logical cause and effect chain of events from the background history, the developers didn't even consider the implications, they picked and chose things, events elements of plot but never really fully explored this watch on the borders of Mordor properly! Yeah the case of Earnur and having siege of Minas Ithil happen later, hell they don't probably realize that without the siege and fall of Minas Ithil the name of current capital of Gondor, Minas Tirith wouldn't be used, it would be Minas Anor...because the name Tirith (so Tower of Guard) would be used AFTER siege of Minas Ithil and it's fall and turning into Minas Morgul, that is the logical consequence, Earnur met his fate when Witch-king was already set his based of operations in Minas Morgul so yeah the game ignores and mangles the timeline and logical course of events within the backstory...
I mean it would be easy to 'fix' the games to make them more lore friendly, more canon compliant, just set them in different time period! Then maybe even the characters like the last two kings Earnil II and Earnur could have been actual NPC characters in the game! :) This move obviously would mean no Gollum cameo but his role in the story was small anyway similarly the event of the Mount Doom bursting into flame, that happens near the end of the first game, it's actually an event that predates Gollum's presence in Mordor :) so again problem of chronology. The games could have been entirely rewritte to have lore accurate setting, so the time of the plot being not between The Hobbit and Lotr but thousand years ago at the time when siege of Minas Ithil really happened, one could use Talion and his story and post being actually Cirith Ungol (due to the Morannon being long abandoned by Gondorians at this time) and use the plot of "treachery yielded the tower to the lord of the Ringwraiths" regarding Cirith Ungol, making this traitor someone close enough to Talion, someone he knew to make him target of revenge for entire game with larger villains like Black Numenorean Captains (and sorcerers kind of like Mouth of Sauron) and Nazgul for the sequel or as larger scope villains, siege of Minas Ithil would also allow to explore different time period in Gondor, maybe even game could allow to see other places outside Mordor, so Ithilien still fertile and inhabited region of Gondor, east Osgiliath, maybe even meeting the king that attempts to break the siege (one can easily explain how the Orcs besieging the fortress under Witch-king's command would block the entrance to the valley that later becomes Imlad Morgul and so on....
Speaking of...it's a shame that the games never use certain book elements, of lore, like the fields of the Imlad Morgul, the deadly white flowers of Morgul, the Silent Watchers and their magical barriers, one could have added and explored the Barrow-wights and their sorcery, the "dreadful spells of the Barrow-wights of which whispered tales spoke", lesser wraiths, victims of Morgul knife, this element of lore was completely neglected!!! Maybe also this could be part of the way how Talion becomes a wraith :) (because technically as the game is as it is, he is more like a live Barrow-wight, or rather wight being possessed living by a spirit), lesser wraiths and Barrow-wights could have been stronger type of enemy, maybe also wraiths being visible only in the Unseen, the wraith world which is not explored and underutilized in the games, taking only place of 'eagle vision' from AC....and speaking of Assassin's Creed that those games are kind of clones of....when we will get a lotr game based on later titles haaha, I mean a lotr game in style of AC Black Flag mixed with Odyssey and Origins elements...and woah that would be awesome, sailing in Middle-earth Great Sea Belegaer, exploring the world, naval combat, battles wiht ships of Corsairs of Umbar!!! That would be awesome :).
Kudos to finding original topics as a tolkien youtuber !!!
hey darth i got an idea : a video that explains the books that where an influenced on lotr like the black douglas, the princess and the goblin, phantastes, the marvellous land of snergs, babbitt, the works of william morris, and shakespeare's macbeth, midsummer, and king lear, journey to the center of the earth, she, and the works of lord dunsany.
Where does the idea that soldiers of Gondor could pick and choose where they are garrisoned come from? It would be more of a tactical choice by those who led the army to concentrate their forces against the new threats, not a case of fewer soldiers volunteering to go to keep an eye on Mordor.
I'm afraid that creating a Crab Watch now would be far too late.
They already learned to use soldier crabs to play Doom.
They are coming
You know im a casual LOTR fan but that last line just earned you a sub you can have my axe and shield to fight the crab people
“We are the Sand Guardians
Guardians of the Sand
From Low to High
With the Changing of the Tide
To Protect the Realms of Humanity
We Guard the Sand
Our Everlasting Stand Against Invasion
Our Everlasting Watch Against the Crustacean.”
Oath of the Guardians of the Sand, who protect humanity from the dreaded Crab People
It's definitely an interesting topic that is rarely adressed so it's fun to speculate a bit, we know only basics of this watch, the fortresses guarding the passes Towers of the Teeth, Morannon, the Cirith Ungol, Minas Ithil, and probably many others including Durthang (maybe Isenmouth too?) obviously by the time of the story many of the fortresses would be reshaped, rebuild and adapted by the forces of Mordor and Orcs would make a lot of their own new holds and forts...and this is one the reasons I have serious gripes with the Shadow of Mordor/War games (aside from the fact that they are lore breaking, canon defying in the basics) that it doesn't really explore much of the watch, though it could have! I mean the games could have used more of the concept of the Gondorian watch and it's long history, we hear of it several times in the historical accounts, like when it was neglected during the reign of king Atanatar Alcarin:
"Atanatar Alcarin son of Hyarmendacil lived in great splendour, so that men said precious stones are pebbles in Gondor for children to play with. But Atanatar loved ease and did nothing to maintain the power that he had inherited, and his two sons were of like temper. The waning of Gondor had already begun before he died, and was doubtless observed by its enemies. The watch upon Mordor was neglected.
The second and greatest evil came upon Gondor in the reign of Telemnar, the twenty-sixth king, whose father Minardil, son of Eldacar, was slain at Pelargir by the Corsairs of Umbar. (They were led by Angamaitë and Sangahyando, the great-grandsons of Castamir.) Soon after a deadly plague came with dark winds out of the East The King and all his children died, and great numbers of the people of Gondor, especially those that lived in Osgiliath. Then for weariness and fewness of men the watch on the borders of Mordor ceased and the fortresses that guarded the passes were unmanned."
And when it was it's ultimate demise, while the particular strongholds were manned periodically for later, like the reference to Morannon having Gondorian garrison still during the wars with Wainriders, even though the watch ceased in truth centuries earlier:
". When all was ready they set out for Gondor from the East, moving with all the speed they could along the line of the Ered Lithui, where their approach was not observed until too late. So it came to pass that the head of the army of Gondor had only drawn level with the Gates of Mordor (the Morannon) when a great dust borne on a wind from the East announced the oncoming of the enemy vanguard [2]."
...
2. An isolated note associated with the text remarks that at this period the Morannon was still in the control of Gondor, and the two Watchtowers east and west of it ... were still manned. The road through Ithilien was still in full repair as far as the Morannon; and there it met a road going north ... and another going east along the line of Ered Lithui. [Neither of these roads is marked on the maps to the Lord of the Rings.] The eastward road extended to a point north of the site of Barad-dûr; it had never been completed further, and what had been made was now long neglected. Nonetheless its first fifty miles, which had once been fully constructed, greatly speeded the Wainriders' approach.
Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 2, Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan: Notes, Note 15
...
"1640 […] Mordor is left unguarded."
The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix B, The Tale of Years: The Third Age
"Tarondor had the longest reign of all the Kings of Gondor (162 years), but was unable to do more than attempt to re-establish life and order within his borders. Owing to the fewness of his people the watch on Mordor was neglected and the fortresses guarding the passes became emptied."
The Peoples of Middle-Earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 7, The Heirs of Elendil: The Southern Line of Gondor: The Anárioni
The fortresses and their history in itself could have been interesting:
"Upon them stood the Teeth of Mordor, two towers strong and tall. In days long past they were built by the Men of Gondor in their pride and power, after the overthrow of Sauron and his flight, lest he should seek to return to his old realm. But the strength of Gondor failed, and men slept, and for long years the towers stood empty. Then Sauron returned. Now the watch-towers, which had fallen into decay, were repaired, and filled with arms, and garrisoned with ceaseless vigilance. Stony-faced they were, with dark window-holes staring north and east and west, and each window was full of sleepless eyes.
TTT, Book IV, Ch 3 The Black Gate is Closed
North amid their noisome pits lay the first of the great heaps and hills of slag and broken rock and blasted earth, the vomit of the maggot-folk of Mordor; but south and now near loomed the great rampart of Cirith Gorgor, and the Black Gate amidmost, and the two Towers of the Teeth tall and dark upon either side.
RotK, Ch 10, The Black Gate Opens
Soon enough after the wars with Wainriders the Nazgul entered and so Morannon would fall into their control:
"The third evil was the invasion of the Wainriders, which sapped the waning strength of Gondor in wars that lasted for almost a hundred years. The Wainriders were a people, or a confederacy of many peoples, that came from the East; but they were stronger and better armed than any that had appeared before. They journeyed in great wains, and their chieftains fought in chariots. Stirred
up, as was afterwards seen, by the emissaries of Sauron, they made a sudden assault upon Gondor, and King Narmacil II was slain in battle with them beyond Anduin in 1856. The people of eastern and southern Rhovanion were enslaved; and the frontiers of Gondor were for that time withdrawn to the Anduin and the Emyn Muil. [At this time it is thought that the Ringwraiths re-entered Mordor.]"
...
1856
Gondor loses its eastern territories, and Narmacil II falls in battle.
1899
King Calimehtar defeats the Wainriders on Dagorlad."
...
"1980
The Witch-king comes to Mordor and there gathers the Nazgûl. A Balrog appears in Moria, and slays Durin VI."
...
"2000
The Nazgûl issue from Mordor and besiege Minas Ithil.
2002
Fall of Minas Ithil, afterwards known as Minas Morgul. The _palantír is_ captured."
The siege of Minas Ithil as set in the real Tolkien world timeline, and also the Cirith Ungol being involved:
"As he gazed at it suddenly Sam understood, almost with a shock, that this stronghold had been built not to keep enemies out of Mordor, but to keep them in. It was indeed one of the works of Gondor long ago, an eastern outpost of the defences of Ithilien, made when, after the Last Alliance, Men of Westernesse kept watch on the evil land of Sauron where his creatures still lurked. But as with Narchost and Carchost, the Towers of the Teeth, so here too the vigilance had failed, and treachery had yielded up the Tower to the Lord of the Ringwraiths, and now for long years it had been held by evil things. Since his return to Mordor, Sauron had found it useful; for he had few servants but many slaves of fear, and still its chief purpose as of old was to prevent escape from Mordor. Though if an enemy were so rash as to try to enter that land secretly, then it was also a last unsleeping guard against any that might pass the vigilance of Morgul and of Shelob."
Cirith Ungol being the first target before the siege of Minas Ithil and that interesting bit of "treachery yielded the tower" this could have been interesting plot point in the game if it was done more lore friendly (yeah sure in the Shadow of War there is treachery surrendering Minas Ithil but still,...in a proper lore friendly game even though it's still fanfiction, Talion could have been stationed on Cirith Ungol, having him interact more with his fellows and family in extended prologue, doing missions together etc. also the traitor being important character basically main antagonist of the game while the Nazgul and Black Captains being larger targets etc, the game in general being set in appropriate time period and so on it could have been hundred times better)
Love you Daddy Gandalf! Your videos rock!
Where is the artwork from? Pretty awesome.
The idea that Cirith Ungol fell due to treachery is certainly very plausible but even if it hadn't I think the Nazgûl would have eventually just used force. Gondor might have been somewhat stronger at the time of the War of the Ring but I don't think it would have been enough to alter the trajectory of the War of the Ring.
The watch on Mordor is really the Mudle Earth Cold War
You are my favorite lotr channel. Can you mabey make a video on why the elves didnt or could not help the free peoples of middle earth more during the war of the ring.
Glenn Cook uses the status of the watch leading to bad things in The Black Company. A fairly well built world.
A couple additional ideas we can probably theorize regarding Gondor's watch on Mordor:
1. It's almost certain that Gondor built additional fortresses. A watch on Mordor would be militarility untenable without some sort of stronghold watching the eastern entrances. We know from Tolkien that there are fertile lands in eastern Mordor and great roads entering Mordor from that direction. The forts in the west would be subject to destruction by Easterlings moving into this vacuum without some sort of guard there. If you look at the map, the roads to Gondor's fortresses in western Mordor could be easily cut off from resupply.
2. Those eastern fortresses are far enough away that you'd probably need a resupply station between Eastern and Western Mordor. I doubt Gondor would build anything in the plains of Gorgoroth, but there would probably need to be some sort of resupply beyond Barad-dur. Even if this is not manned, they need some sort of provision station even if they mostly traversed this distance by horseback.
3. I'd argue that Gondor's relinquishment of the watch probably happened in phases. Low on manpower, the kingdom likely had to prioritize fortresses. For example, do you really need to watch the passes west if Gondor controlled that land, or are the Towers of the Teeth more important? You probably had a situation where various interior fortresses went understaffed depending on their value and resupply difficulties, followed later by their wholesale abandonment.
I'd argue that by the time the gate fell to the Witch King, Mordor had already been overrun by Sauron. This fortress was likely Gondor's last toehold in Mordor. I would guess that Mordor was effectively lost whenever these theoretical eastern fortresses were abandoned. At that point, Easterlings would have a defacto blank cheque to overrun Nurn and re-establish some sort of solid anti-Gondorian presence there. From their base in Nurn, they could have launched raids across Mordor and effectively shut Gondor in the western forts. With a wall to their backs, it would have only been a matter of time before these forts became untenable to supply and would require an evacuation.
This is how I see things playing out given what we know and what we can extrapolate.
It's possible there might existed smaller fortresses beyond the main ones like Minas Ithil, Cirith Ungol, Morannon and Towers of the Teeth, Narchost and Carchost, possibly Durthang, maybe also Isenmouth the Carach Angren and so on, there were other orc holds and outposts at the time when Frodo and Sam moved through in the story, so it might be not all of them were build by orcs! Some might have been remaining outposts of Gondorians:
"The eastern faces of the Ephel Duath were sheer, falling in cliff and precipice to the black trough that lay between them and the inner ridge. A short way beyond the way-meeting, after another steep incline, a flying bridge of stone leapt over the chasm and bore the road across into the tumbled slopes and glens of the Morgai."
...
"Beyond its stony course they saw a beaten path that wound its way under the feet of the westward cliffs. Had they known, they could have reached it quicker, for it was a track that left the main Morgul-road at the western bridge-end and went down by a long stair cut in the rock to the valley's bottom. It was used by patrols or by messengers going swiftly to lesser posts and strongholds north-away, between Cirith Ungol and the narrows of Isenmouthe, the iron jaws of Carach Angren."
There is infrastructure in Mordor some of it would be older no doubt made by Gondorians later adapted like Cirith Ungol and so on.
The beginning of the video show my biggest issue with tolkiens world building, Ithillien and the relativ distance of gondor heartland to mordor, or in other words they are too close to eachother.
Morder being atleast a 100 to 200 Kilometer further away from the anduin would serve the history of middle earth better.
Wonderful video👍👍👍, but I have a question. Gondor could have built fortresses in Nurn which could be used as a cornchamber or to launch attacks on Khand or Rhun. What would you think?
Where was it stated the Treachery part?
"But as with Narchost and Carchost, the Towers of the Teeth, so here too the vigilance had failed, and treachery had yielded up the Tower to the Lord of
the Ringwraiths" - Tower of Cirith Ungol, Return of the King.
It's a perfect example of a throwaway line having massive implications.
Algormancy!
Sooo... you also like AOT season 1?
As far as I can remember Minas Ithil was taken by barbarian men, probably in alliance with some of the nazgûl, but not clearly so.
Where in the literature does it say that Cirith Ungol was taken via treachery?
"But as with Narchost and Carchost, the Towers of the Teeth, so here too the vigilance had failed, and treachery had yielded up the Tower to the Lord of
the Ringwraiths" - Tower of Cirith Ungol, Return of the King.
It's a perfect example of a throwaway line having massive implications.
The knights what!
Yes, the massed depopulation of Middle earth caused by the great plague, was certainly the main reason that the watch on Mordor was ended for a time, alongside permanently the watch on Tharbad and garrisoning of Isengard. However, one has to wonder if Gondor hadn't just come out of a hundred years of constant warfare and sapping of resources and manpower that entailed, would the fall of the watch on Mordor have occurred, probably not as Gondor wold have certainly had armies available to save Minis Ithil during the two year siege of it as well as eventually repulse and retake any other fortress lost to the enemy.
Tharbad
Oops, spelt as it sounded to me and thanks for the correction.@@maximus3160
😍😍😍😍👌
They watched Sauron make Mordor great again
and all were likely inspired by The Black Watch
Do you think Men could use Orcs in there armies? The Men from the east could fight with them, so is this possible?
Orcs as mercenaries? Well technically possible I guess, I mean even in The Hobbit we are told:
"Now goblins are cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted. They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones. They can tunnel and mine as well as any but the most skilled
dwarves, when they take the trouble, though they are usually untidy and dirty. Hammers, axes, swords, daggers, pickaxes, tongs, and also instruments of torture, they make very well, or get other people to make to their design, prisoners and slaves that have to work till they die for want of air and light. It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far. They did not hate dwarves especially, no more than they hated everybody and everything, and particularly the orderly and prosperous; in some parts wicked dwarves had even made alliances with them. But they had a special
grudge against Thorin’s people, because of the war which you have heard mentioned, but which does not come into this tale; and anyway goblins don't care who they catch, as long as it is done smart and secret, and the prisoners are not able to defend themselves.”
Tolkien also wrote once in a letter:
"So even if in desperation 'the West' had bred or hired hordes of orcs and had cruelly ravaged the lands of other Men as allies of Sauron, or merely to prevent them from aiding him, their Cause would have remained indefeasibly right."
But such a hypothetical situation and obviously in Tolkien's world morality terms , the end DOES NOT justify the means in any case the other peoples like Easterlings and Haradrim, people in general serving Sauron or the darkness or the tribes like the Dunlendings who allied with Saruman and marched with his orc armies. In the First Age the Easterlings serving Morgoth had contacts with Orcs, marched with them, had enough close contacts to learn much of orc language:
"But with the passing of the years the life of the former folk of Hithlum, such as still remained. Elves or Men, became ever harder and more perilous. For as is elsewhere told, Morgoth broke his pledges to the Easterlings that had served him, and he denied to them the rich lands of Beleriand which they had coveted, and be drove away these evil folk into Hithlum, and there commanded them to dwell. And though they loved Morgoth no longer, they served him still in fear, and hated all the Elven-folk; and they despised the remnant of the House of Hador (the aged and women and children, for the most part), and they oppressed them, and wedded their women by force, and took their lands and goods, and enslaved their children. Orcs came and went about the land as they would, pursuing the lingering Elves into the fastnesses of the mountains, and taking many captive to the mines of Angband to labour as the thralls of Morgoth."
...
"All at once from near at hand there came a wild cry, and many others along the borders of the road answered it. A harsh horn blared, and there was the sound of running feet. But Tuor held on. He had learned enough of the tongue of the Orcs in his captivity to know the meaning of those cries: the watchers had scented them and heard them, but they were not seen."
Orcs and Easterlings of Beleriand fought side by side:
"Thus it came to pass that the Elves forsook the caves of Androth, and Tuor went with them. But their enemies kept watch upon their dwellings, and were soon aware of their march; and they had not gone far from the hills into the plain before they were assailed by a great force of Orcs and Easterlings, and they were scattered far and wide, fleeing into the gathering night. But Tuor's heart was kindled with the fire of battle, and he would not flee, but boy as he was he wielded the axe as his father before him, and for long he stood his ground and slew many that assailed him; but at the last be was overwhelmed and taken captive and led before Lorgan the Easterling. Now this Lorgan was held the chieftain of the Easterlings and claimed to rule all Dor-1ómin as a fief under Morgoth; and he took Tuor to be his slave."
Men could march with them as part of the armies and even rival in cruelty.....and Orcs being greedy for spoil, also taking slaves and so on one can imagine them making a deal wiht shady individuals among Men, Orcs also received at times rewards even while serving Dark Lords:
"Then you'll fly off with our prisoners, and get all the pay and praise in Lugbúrz, and leave us to foot it as best we can through the Horse-country." This coming from conversation of Orcs!
And obviously the Orcs in the armies of Morgoth at times were given incentive of the rewards the price for the heads of important targets:
"'At length Morgoth set a price upon his head no less than the price upon the head of Fingon, High King of the Noldor; but the Orcs fled rather at the rumour of his approach than sought him out."
Mim the petty-dwarf also negotiated with Orcs that captured him:
""Nevertheless he attempted to impose certain conditions on the Orcs, who laughed at him, but Mim said that they knew little if they believed that they could gain anything from a Petty-dwarf by torture. Then they asked him what these conditions might be, and Mim declared his demands: that they pay him the weight in iron of each man whom they caught or slew, but of Turin and Beleg in gold; that Mim's house, when rid of Turin and his company, be left to him, and himself unmolested; that Beleg be left behind, bound, for Mim to deal with; and that Turin be let go free."
Orcs seem to value money, gold or precious metals and gems:
"Then Nár turned the head and saw branded on the brow in Dwarf-runes so that he could read it the name AZOG. That name was branded in his heart and in the hearts of all the Dwarves afterwards. Nár stooped to take the head, but the voice of Azog said:
'Drop it! Be off! Here's your fee, beggar-beard.' A small bag struck him. It held a few coins of little worth."
So orc chieftain, Azog, who also deemed himself 'king' in Moria, had a pouch of coins, money of small worth but still a bag of coins! So the Orcs had put some value of money.
I feel like shadow of mordor and war would of been better if they were set 1000 years before the lord of the rings when minis ithel actually feel
The what? Sorry, season 8 of GoT erased my memory.
Why wasn't the capital of Gondor moved to a safer place e.g. Lamedon?
I don't see why, in real life Constantinople / Istanbul has been sieged by enemy forces far more than Osgiliath was. They didn't move their capital during the past 700 years, and more like 1700 years if you ignore one emperor moving the capital to Sicily in the 1200s
The answer's in the question!
It'd been too Lame to move it to Lamedon!
@@the_Kutonarch lol
Game of thrones is a homoerotic fan fiction of lord of the rings .
What if denethor 2 died with his wife because of the darkness of Mordor
Tolkien predated game of thrones by a very long time. George RR Martin stole a lot of shit from Tolkien
Unpopular opinion: GoT is a post modern ripoff of LoTR
OMG, can people stop equating Tolkien's ideas to vastly inferior commercial knockoffs from 70 years later? I mean, Jesus. I'm sure it's a massive coincidence that Martin calls himself "R. R."
Game of thrones season 8......... 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
2 minutes in and I’ve heard, multiple times, the typical British “f” in replacement of the intended “th.” It’s a threat, not a fret. (and don’t get me started on the letter R. “whaa faah” instead of warfare yet there are places called Americur and Africur?)
Just sayin’. Please continue. 😂
GoT/ASoIaF is just Tolkien from an idiot who thinks fantasy needs to be more realistic.