Dust Collector Suction Comparison
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- THE RESULTS MIGHT SHOCK YOU! Just kidding. I decided to test out the actual real-world suction on three different dust collectors that I happened to have on hand. I test out a shop vac with dust deputy, Harbor Freight 1HP dust collector, and my new Oneida V3000 3HP dust collector.
00:00 Intro
01:34 Understanding CFM
02:43 Shop Vac w/ Oneida Dust Deputy Test
06:22 Harbor Freight 1HP Test
07:47 Oneida V3000 3HP Test
09:42 Additional Discussion and Conclusion
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Thanks for doing this comparison! I have been going back a forth as to whether I should replace my shop vac + dust buster combo with the 1HP HF collector for use with my table saw. Your test convinces me it would be a worthwhile upgrade. The HF will also save me some floor space since I can mount it on the wall next to my saw.
This was fantastic and I appreciate you taking the time to do this test.
Thanks, I've been on a shopvac & dust deputy for quite awhile now, just itching to upgrade to a HF system. Great job and very informative
Very interesting experiment with very useful results. Your experiment completely solved my confusion and answered questions I had in mind which one to buy. Thank you!
Now I need to buy an Anemometer and check my equipment. This was super informative. Well done!
Holy dust collection! I was contemplating using a rolling "dust deputy" type setup for my workshop dust collection but I am glad I watched this. I am really surprised by the difference in dust collection capacity between a shop vac and the Harbor Freight system. I think it's time for an upgrade! Fantastic video - thanks for making this!
It's great for small tools and general clean up.
Very interesting analysis. Thank you for this thoughtful and informative video.
Great video. You did a lot of work to put that together. Just what I needed to see
I really appreciate the hard data. Thanks for sharing!
Finally someone did a video on the harbor junk mobile dust collector. I've had this thing sitting around for years after buying it and only using it for one job. So now its going to be used for my small shop dust collection. Thanks Robert
Harbor Freight is actually starting to make some really decent stuff. They've come a LONG way from their beginnings.
Exactly what I was wondering - great video!!
Thanks so much for this! I'm trying to rig up a 3/4 horsepower dust collector as a dedicated thing for a lightweight table saw that moves from job to job, and I'm hoping it'll be a big upgrade over the shop vac I'm currently using. The real world numbers are very encouraging!
Finally the test of all test 🤘. Thanks the video it's great.
That was great information! Thank you for doing a comparison with real stats.
Thanks for making this video. You just saved me from wasting my time and money setting up a dust deputy system.
If you already have a shop vac, the dust deputy is a great addition, even if you only use it for regular cleanup around the shop.
Thanks for making this! Very interesting findings.
Great video Robert!
Very good information. The low power efficiency of a small shop vac helped me make my decision to go with a larger system. Maybe the Harber Freight.
Really Appreciate this video .. I purchased a SurfPrep Sander and I've been trying to research how adding dust collectors inline with the shop vac would impact the performance of the dust removal. Again thanks for taking the time to make this video. I'm a woodworking virgin and haven't a clue to what I'm doing. *Happy Holidays*
This video convinced me to subscribe! Thanks Robert!
Very good! I like this style of video. Easy to digest.
This is very good information! That little 1hp harbor freight jobber does pretty good for the money. The larger one does even better from what I have seen, and the price is pretty reasonable as well.
Excellent video, and very useful information!
I've been looking for a video like this! Thanks for taking the time to show me how shit my budget system is LOL
Great comparison Thanks for sharing!!
Sweet, this was very informative, thanks so much, 100 thumbs up 👍
Outstanding quality 👌 thank you so much
Thanks for the video, really put it into perspertive. CFM/kW is usefull, only CFM or only kW not so much. Always compare to whats important to you. For some it's CFM/€or$ or CFM/Volume when you have limited space.
BRILLIANT video! Thank you!
Excellent video.
AWESOME BREAKDOWN! Thank you!
Hi Robert ... outstanding video, I learned a lot ... this was eye-opening at the very least. If you are indeed on a budget, the Harbor Freight solution is quite attractive.
In any case, your time and effort is definitely appreciated. Thanks much, Cheers, Dave
Absolutely killer video, got a sub. You rock🤘😄🙌
Very interesting, well done.
It's like a giant vacuum cleaner brilliant video
CFM and fine particle collection (HEPA) are the most important things to me. Then noise is 3rd and and watts is 4th.
Hard to find reviews that talk about filtration and sound on any of these things. 2 parts which especially for hobby workers on small garages and shops is super important
Eduardo - I second the importance of HEPA filters! Bill Pentz has done extensive research on the importance for our respiratory systems of capturing the fine particles that are too small to see. He also gives some ‘rules of thumb’ for the square footage of HEPA filter / CFM necessary to capture these particles. Bill’s website is: Billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php#index.php
I’m in the process of deciding on a dust collector for my small garage shop. In what I’ve found thus far, Clear Vue appears to make collectors with the largest HEPA sq ft / CFM.
@@davidsherley2652 Thanks for the info
Crocs in the workshop
I see you too are a man of culture
Haha. Trust me, no one hates my crocs more than me. BUT, they are a great shop shoe. Comfortable, cheap, and more protection than a normal shoe. I'm not gonna say it's a safety shoe, but I have dropped some relatively heavy objects and it's been a fair amount of protection. Screw it, I like them.
Great vid, thx 👍👍...I have a 1hp 4" extractor, plus the shop vac... making big me reasses! I wonder if using the 4" hose, coupled down to 2" (DeWalt 745 table saw) would work better than shop vac...
The Shopvac is designed for high pressure and low volume. The dust collection units are designed for high volume and low pressure. As an example, if you were going to build a vacuum hold down table for your AVID cnc, you would want a motor that was high pressure and high volume. The shopvac would be great holding down a board to the table, until there was an air leak or you cut through. Then there wouldn't be enough volume to maintain pressure. The dust collection units would be horrible and holding anything down since they don't create much pressure. Just my 2 cents of info.
Great comparison. If I was energy conscious, (which I am) The dust collector will do a better job after the $$$ outlay but save in the long run. That SUCKS. I cannot run the lathe, compressor and shop vac without overloading my small workshop. Cutting the power KW load would work for starters. Thanks for the info.
I designed and printed my own cyclone filter that drops the dust into a 30 gallon drum using the shop vac. I mainly cut Styrofoam board and thought the really light dust would never drop out of the cyclone. Boy was I wrong! Everything goes into the 30 gallon drum and there wasn't anything getting sucked into the shop vac.
I had similar results with the Dust Deputy and Styrofoam. Completely impressed. Seems like heavier objects stay in the cyclone longer than anything else.
Hey robert! Thanks for posting these results! Did you happen to test the hard or freight dust collector without the bag filter attached? I’m curious as to what the airflow increase would be and my expectation is that it would jump from ~500 cfm with the bag to about 1200 cfm without.
Great video! Thanks!
Thanks for the info. Question for you test the harbor freight without the bag on it. I just purchased one for my little hobby setup but I plan on making a homemade barrel cyclone and through wall venting without the bag. Was curious what the cfm without the bag was and the wattage. Thanks
Very interesting comparison
Thanks Robert! I came to your video by searching for the answer to a question. Would I be better off using my Shop-vac, 12-gallon vacuum to drive my dust collection system or a Grainger blower with 425 CFM that I have laying around in the garage? I'm only connecting a chop saw and router right now. From your testing, it sounds like I'm better off with the blower?
Thanks for making this with real data!
Great demo, thanks for posting. Can you comment on the cfm typically required to pull xx% of dust from various tools, say a table saw?
You can find those online. In general, for a contractor table saw, you can get 90% of the "chip dust" with a Wet/Dry Vac and Dust Collector. But, it'll be too underpowered for a Hybrid or Cabinet Table Saw and if you try you'll get about 50% of "chip dust" - as those saws have a minimum requirement of 350 CFM.
Thing about the shop vac, it has the smallest hose diameter of the 3. With CFM, you're somewhat restricted on the hose diameter. People have increased the inlet on the HF Dust Collector from 5" to 6" just to get a CFM increase.
I love the “this is just complete bullshit “on the 4hp
Awesome video thanks
CFM and CFNM are very different things. Both, however, apparently, involve suction.
I have no idea what that means.
Would be interesting to see how necking down the dust collectors to 2.5" affects CFM. I haven't gone to a full on dust collection system because all of my tools have 2.5" ports, but if the CFM difference is still staggering I might "upgrade" from my shop vac and dust deputy. I'm not super pleased with it's performance, and frankly the shop vac bags perform a heck of a lot better than the dust deputy, the problem is the cost.
Great video. I built my cyclone over 20 years ago and I piped the exhaust to the outside thru an insulated duct which sound deadens the noise. Much quieter and 100% dust-free. No filter cleaning ever. The amount of heat loss is not significant. Hepa filter works best right before it needs cleaning then you have to clean and avoid dust from the filter. This makes no sense!
Hey paul anyway you can share how you did it? Do you still get fine dust or not? Do you have a cyclone and bin?
In my shop there was a preexisting 4" line for dust collection built under the counter tops in the house I bought. I am running a 5.5 hp shop vac to a homemade cyclone, all 2" pipe, to the 4" pipe. All my accessories are 2" fed off the 4" line. What should I have my surface area set to on my anemometer to get accurate results? I tried the .034 as you did, but I got a lot higher results than you did. I'm thinking something might be skewed because of the pipe size variance. Whatcha think?
Robert, do you think you could make a video on air particulates like solder fumes and chemical voc's? If be interested in your opinion on safety and practices.
Edit: specifically focusing on environments like shops and interior home rooms
That's an interesting topic, I might have to look into that.
Super helpful
you are a badass dude. great info!!!
Could you do a workshop tour??
Could you please measure the CFM after the vacuum hose is attached to the Dust collectors? I wonder if is different than minus 20 CFM for the hose connected to the dust collectors..That could show how long the hose can be before real loss of suction..
I believe that the main draw of the Dust Deputy (aside from budget) is the dust separator which saves on filters and provides for easier dust disposal.
You're 100% right. I was focused more on CFM performance. If you suck MDF dust for a few minutes with a shop vac, that filter is going to get clogged and it will stop performing. I was assuming most people would be using a cyclone because of that.
So I have that same anemometer. And seem to can't read cfm beyond 700-800 I get either a bunch of 0000 or the letters OL on the screen. I sent back 1 thinking it was broken and got a new one but same thing. Did yours really give the higher readouts?
2.2kw with 2600cfm vs 1kw with 150cfm. What a scam on consumers with those shop vacs.
Great video! Just was I was looking for!!
He did not measure static pressure, that's where your watts are going on the shop VACuum. Different applications.
Question and im not doing it. I bought a larger unit but just for fun with the harbor fraight chip collector, and the dust deputy how much loss of power insted of using a vacume.
I think if I was going to go a vacume route I might buy a shark Bagless unit. Four about what a shop vac and dust deputy cost and you get all that stuff with a hepa filter in one unit around the same money. Shop vacs are good to pick up water. Or vacume the floor.
But they cost more to run. Just use it to clean out your pickup truck bed.
Hi Robert, very nice 👍. I would have hoped you tested the 3hp w/o cyclone. That would really tell the story.
Eh, yeah, but it's nearly impossible to test it without the cyclone, it's all attached and integral to the design.
Great video, Thk u! Whats your thoughts on a Harbor Freight or WEN, or equivalent 600cfm unit, connected to an 4” reducer to a 2.5” connection, then to a Oneida Dust Deputy using a 2.5” hose directly connected to my table saw? I am thinking a whole lot better than using a shop vac.
That would certainly be better. Likely still 4 to 5 times better.
That much strain could burn out the HF. Its made for airflow not suction.
I see in the meter 1269 and you put 130cmf what is the calculation to know that they are 130cfm that would help me a lot.
In your opinion do you think the HF collector would be sufficient for use solely in mitersaw station? I've used a shop vac in the past but I'm not satisfied with it but dont want to run a line from my big collector.
Yeah, for a single tool, good ducting and some sort of cyclone or separator, it would be perfect.
Kind of late with this comment but thank you for the informative comparison. My dilemma is that I want to build a very portable, like jobsite to jobsite, cyclone dust collector but wanted something better than (and possibly smaller than) the dust deputy /shop vac combo. So I was thinking of the dust deputy 2.5 and a small 3/4 or 1 hp fan but step in down to the 2 1/2" opening on the DD 2.5. I was considering the smallest cyclone with 4" ports but it is way too big. Question is, how much cfm do you get (or lose) after you step down from 4" to 2 1/2"?
What brand anemometer did you use? Would you recommend it?
Would of liked to see the harbor freight CFM w cyclone too… I have the Wen version of that one and debating if I need a cyclone or not- converting my 2 in shop vac system to that w 4 in duck
You're right, that would have been a good test, sorry about that! I think that would be the best of all worlds.
I have a Harbor Freight Dust collector i thinks it works great i have nothing else to compare it to.
super helpful
Thanks!
I need to put my 2 cents in here I think your information is great and viewers can understand the differences now especially those who may not have a real technical back ground.
I bought a 2hp harbor freight dust collector and it works fine I also have the shop vac cyclone setup . What I really want to say here is everyone on u tube want to modify the harbor freight system which is fine , I would like to say that every time they add all these mods they are reducing the original cfm's and I do not understand their reasoning maybe some of your viewers can enlighten me.your demonstration really explains that . thank you for the time of doing it. Oh yes which home energy monitor are you using?
The Harbor Freight can makes a great exhaust for a laser cutter. Speaking from experience
Can you please elaborate?
I have the HarborFreight 2 HP dust collector. Rated at 1300 cfm I think...but I reduced it to 2" fitting and found that the suction to be useless. Far less than my Craftsman shop vac. I'm not an engineer but I think it has something to do with pressure. It's kinda like comparing a wide slow moving river compared to a power washer. The river moves more water but the power washer can cut wood.
Each system has its advantages if used for what they are designed to do. A 2" shop vac with a dust deputy will be sufficient for smaller bench top power tools like sanders. The bigger dust collector systems are designed for table saws, jointer, and planers.
Thank you
How to calculate suction pressure of dust collector ?
Can’t decide whether to build a flat cylinder centrifuge with Thein baffle…or a deep conical cyclone funnel….or a hybrid which starts as a cylinder and then tapers to a cone. The difference is the way the air gets to the outlet tube. In a Thein cylinder the air flows in a flat circle radially closing in on the pipe at the core. In a cyclone the air forms a vortex moving down, then funnels up through the vortex centre like a whirlwind….which works best for spinning out fine dust I wonder? Important to keep in mind in the video…dust is easily moved by even gentle flows…so a slow speed high CFM set up is probably the most effective at capturing wood dust and small flakes…BUT, the static pressure or ‘suck’ will be much lower so heavy particles..like metal shavings and metal filings in a multipurpose workshop might not be pulled into the hose at all…or might ‘settle out’ at lower speed sections within the duct. Some shopvacs can literally lift a house brick on the end of the hose with their huge vacuum pressure and will easily take up small metal offcuts..and dropped money/keys/screws etc. Just a thought.
I used the 1hp dust collector (Harbor Freight $150.00 ) in sand and finish hardwood. I'll produce 2 55 gal garbage cans of dust on an average job. I'll hand dust window sills after the job and that's all the dust left behind. Many professionals some years back bought 25k Atomic 2micron trailer systems (Think professional carpet cleaning system but way friggin more $$$ ) and I'm running 90% of that system for less than $300.00. Most other trades watched me pull this unit out and instantly say...WTF and then dude that works great.
Yep! Focus on what works. The HF is pretty decent for what it is.
Apples and oranges. The shop vac works with vacuum, the other collectors with airflow. Every device has it's application. If you reduce the diameter of the hose, the big ones don't work anymore, no airflow. If you need volume, the big ones shine. Basically, you need both or get a Cam Vac. They have volume and vaccum capabilities.
Then there is the crazy expensive Ruwac collection system with a 3 motor hepa vacuum and 2x 50gal drum separators/collectors. Intended for asbestos vermiculite insulation removal, but would still be amazing for for everything else.
A sound level comparison using a phone app would have also been pretty useful. Excellent video nonetheless.
Ah, good idea. I actually have an old school analog decibel meter which I've used for other videos, but just didn't think of it. All of them are LOUD. The V3000 is probably the quietest actually. I did find that the specs on each are pretty accurate, so you can trust what the datasheets say.
Thanks,
Do you realy need 2.2kW of dust collection? Would it be possible to save a little electrical power by adding a VFD?
Suction does take a fair amount of power. I'm not expert, but just creating the airflow is a constant load on the motor. With machining or other forms of cutting, you're only loading the motor when there's a load. Whereas with suction, you're almost always pretty fully loaded.
6:03 "this is complete bullshit" 😂
What about static pressure? Also, i would love to get an e-guage to support you but it just does not make much sense for a homeowner that likes numbers.
Also, the fact that eguage does not have proper integration into Home assistant is a bummer.
@@Ender_Wiggin You're not work, but that's just not our market. We're more of an industrial/commercial product, and Modbus is like the "home assistant" for that market. We've thought about doing something with Alexa or Google, but it's constant upkeep and I'm not sure what you'd really be asking it. "How much power am I using right now?". Stuff like that is tricky.
Dude do you know your off and on button?
Good info. However, there are a few things to note here. Having used both a cyclone setup with a large volume dust collector and a shop vac with a similar separator, they both have their purposes in the shop.
A big cyclone is very good for moving large amounts of air with bigger objects in it (think planer, jointer) or in areas where dust collecting is hard to do, due to the volume of air /dust needed to be collected (think bandsaw, table saw) the cyclone wins hands down.
Now hooking the big cyclone to a 2" ish port on a router table or a smaller port on a sander to capture the dust, it will suck, and not in a good way. The shop vac will outperform that hands down.
Also sweeping up your show floor after a day's work, the shop vac wins easily.
Verdict = both are needed in a shop for completely different tasks.
Good to know!
Wicked Wood - I agree 100%!
Robert Cowan do you have a Facebook group/page or a Instagram??
I enjoy your no nonsense way of presenting the information.
I can't remember, maybe check the description ;-)
I've been using a shop vac with a dust deputy because I already had it but you sold me on a harbor freight upgrade.
Did I just say Harbor Freight was an upgrade!?! Great, now I have to watch for lightning strikes...
Did you upgrade?
@@brianflanagan5173 I did and I actually love the HF DC
@@ThePapabear2012 nice! Thanks for the reply!
Hi, thank you for video, but you are not comparing right things - Im talking about shop vac (high pressure low volume system) vs dust collector (low pressure high volume).
You need both in workshop. Try to reduce 6" inlet of DC to 1" to use it on orbital sander or hand router - it will just dont work! You need shop vac here. SV has high pressure and therefore it can work with small ducting...
And I really dont think that cyclone for SV is waste of money. I think it is necessary because of small filters and bags - even when you loose 23% of CFM how you showed to us. There is also important question about how much pressure do you loose? Nevertheless I think cyclone for shopvac still worth it.
What I really miss is measuring lost of CFM in DC cyclone? Many of us with small shops do have a small power DC. And because dust collector is usable without cyclone it is really important if one should add it?
When Mathias Wandel measured CFM his conclusion was that adding cyclone to shop vacuum makes sense but when you add it to DC there is too much loss of CFM. Of course it depends how powerful DC do you have...
Regards, Tomas
I've set up a woodworking shop and now have a clean slate, but I'm uncertain about what diameter pipe to opt for in my dust collection system. Currently, I'm equipped with a Harbor Freight 2HP setup, enhanced with upgraded fan blades and a P181038 filter, alongside the addition of the Oneida Cyclone, which I've wall-mounted.
I've noticed many CZcams creators employing 4" pipes, while a few opt for 6". Could you shed some light on why you chose the size you did?"
You can find calculators online, but with a 3HP vacuum, you want higher volume, so bigger diameter tubing. For smaller suckers, you won't have the power to get any real velocity in the larger diameters, so you use smaller tubing. There are lots of sites that will let you calculate the appropriate sizes for everything, based on your layout and equipment.
wish i woulda watched this a week ago lol that harbor freight is only $50 more then my shop vac and i just dropped $$$$$ on 2.5 inch ducting set up lol my shop vac "claims" to be 6.5 HP so maybe ill get more CFM then urs? but damn i would really like that 1 HP at half the electricity cost with way more suction
This is one the best videos on dust collection I've seen. Short answer if starting out - skip the shop vac setup and go straight to the HF 1HP. It may not even cost more at the end of the day. It would have been interesting to know what the velocities were just for kicks.
Thanks. My thoughts exactly, get the HF unit, and if you need separation, just go with the cyclone. The cyclone itself isn't bad, it's just the shop vac lacks any real airflow. For velocities, I say the diameter of each hose, so you can use that to find out the actual air velocity.
Hello Robert, just found this video. Thanks for making it. I wondered what your thoughts are on hose length factor using the dust deputy/shop vac collections system. In particular, do you think there would be any increase in CFM using a shorter hose (or plastic tube) between the shop vac and the cyclone? I have a larger Ridgid vac and have a short (about 12-14 inches), modified plastic tube connecting the Ridgid to the "Dustopper" bucket. Thanks again!
Yes of course. Long hoses and also sharp turns make a lot difference. If you can, use smooth tubes, 2x45 or 3x30 angles than 1x90 degrees.
Good video but man you pressing the wrong button every time on the shop vac really bugged me to the point I wanted to shout! Lol
Ha, and I've had it for YEARS/
That’s interesting.
The test is flawed 1000 ways to Sunday BUT, the errors are really important unless you were comparing 1 shop vac to another. Even with error, it's easy to see the point that the Shop vac sucks. Lol. I'm setting up my system in a small shop and have the shop vac and cyclone. I have not looked at the price of the the harbor freight but I'm going to and see if I should switch gears. In setting up for a drill press, spindle sander small 7 1/ inch miter saw (for rough work only. I have a Large Ridgid that I take outside in their Amazon folding rolling stand) and also a router table that gets used mostly for round overs at the moment. My table saw and Ridgid miter saw are used outside 99.99% of the time and I don't currently have a planer or jointer. I live the video and made me think. Thanks and good luck with that suckinator.
I'm not really sure what you're referring to? I'm measuring CFM for different dust collection methods. That's in the title, and that's what I'm doing. It's not a complete picture as others have said, but I thought I was pretty clear about that. This isn't some clickbait BS about "which is best", it's just a CFM comparison.
The length of the hose in the dust deputy example Is too long. In my dust deputy setup the length of the hose is about one third of his. His hose reduced the airflow by about 14%. So with my setup the hose would reduce the airflow by about 4.7%.