History Summarized: The Wild West
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
- This video was commissioned by Patron Matthew Ritter. Thanks Matthew! If you would like to support the channel and earn special rewards, check out our Patreon page: www.patreon.com/OSP
Articles referenced - Because Gun Control and Black Cowboys sound incredulous on paper so I can see why you wouldn't believe me but it's real and there's tons of proof:
Gun Control in the West: www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...
Black Cowboys: www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...
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If you really want to see the Spaghetti Western taken to the next level, check out "Bang!"
It's a tabletop game so enthusiastically Spaghetti Western in tone, the cards are all written in Italian.
www.amazon.com/Bang-Wild-West-DaVinci-Games/dp/B001Q4XWB8
What's your favorite bit of Wild West pop culture? No wrong answers!
Bang is fun, i died before my first turn the first time i played, because duels+ indians a couple other aoes and i had no bangs
Overly Sarcastic Productions I heard that calling a native an Indian is wrong, because Indian are from India, I learned from from my professor of history
Dude... the e in Oregon is silent. I've heard Or-gin and Or-gun, but the e is silent.
@@MPythonGirl Oregon (/ˈɒrɪɡən/ ( listen)[7])
Curious fact all of spaghetti western films (al least all the ones mentioned in the video at least) were filmed in the south of Spain in the desert of a little village called Tabernas (literally Taverns) my grandfather was from that village and appears as an extra in some of the films.
plot twist: this town......IS big enough for the both of us
Jimmy Barnes: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH. (AAAAHHHH intesifing continues).
20K slowburn fic
Wow who woulda thunk it
@@xdshrekt3909 *AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH* *AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH* *AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH*
Partner * *tilts cowboy hat up* * you better take your gay porn and walk right outta that door.
yeah but... red dead redemption 2
Spongeton what I’m thinking
yeah doyyyyyyyyy
Or girl
There’s always a god damn train
Is a bad game
The old west cowboy is just the American version of the British medieval knight.
You deserve more likes for saying this, thank you.
cowboys come from the Spanish and inherited by Mexican Texans
Old west was and It is what the usa does best: use propaganda to turn genocide in a good thing!
you are wise, cuh.
Nah
Tbh RDR2 (and even RDR1) breaks away from a lot of those misconceptions, the cast of protagonists is really diverse, the native American genocide, racism, sexism and xenophobia are all addressed, gun violence is shunned down by the law, there's a lot of emphasis on farms, ranches and cattle, and it is said multiple times (using side quests, Arthur's journal and Dutch's speeches) that the vision they have of a "wild west" is pure fantasy, there were no heroes and the government was always there. In RDR1 there are even cattle herding missions and an achievement called "Manifest Destiny" that you unlock after killing all the 20 bisons in the game, to reference the bison extinction caused by the US government.
I was looking for a comment like this. Part of what makes Red Dead Redemption so engaging isn't just the story and characters but how the game itself through its mechanics, dialogue, and plot directly addresses many mythologized aspects of the West. In doing so, it tells a grounded and gritty story that strikes a strong chord because of it.
Thank you for your comment. I was really bugged how the video throws rdr under the bus for no reason. Overwatch players are so annoying
plus there's at least some diversity in the van der linde gang in rdr2, we got an afro-indigenous cowboy! how epic is that!
that being said, the game does very much play into the stereotypes to a certain level (and don't get me started on the Red Dead Online players and those god awful cliched characters they make). The game does a much better job than most Westerns, but there are still improvements to be made. While the gang itself is diverse, it can come off as a sort of tokenism at times. For ex, Javier may be well depicted, but him and Flaco are practicly the only latinos with proper dialogue, and just about every other Mexican in the game aside from Javier is still portrayed as a stereotypical bandito. Just look at the Del Lobos. And this is just one example of where the game could have been better in its depiction of the west.
yeah, I just started playing rdr2, and I'm surprised and quite satisfied with how they don't brush past all of that
In my opinion, the archetype of a cowboy is popular for the same reason the archetypal pirate is popular: They both represent strong individualism in a harsh environment, with only your wits and your trusty sidearm to get by. The historical inaccuracy, and it does pain me to say this as a historian, is irrelevant. The idea of the archetype speaks to something instinctual, the desire to go out and make it on our own has a more lasting impact on the collective consciousness than what being a cowboy was actually like. Not that that doesn't make the archetype dangerous if not viewed with a grain of salt.
You make a really good point. To add to it, Italian movie directors are repeatedly quoted as saying the individualism of their characters reflected both the adventurism of the West *and* the disillusionment with Italian government in the 60s.
Like HBomberguy said in his Lovecraft video, a lot of times fiction can reveal more truths than facts.
@Philip K
Clearly you haven't played enough Oregon Trail.
To be honest, I'd love to see an accurate portrail of both cowboys and pirates for once. Even if they have to change tone and style completely.
@@eldorados_lost_searcher yep. It's just not a good run if you don't lose at least 2 people to dysentery.
A nocturnal cowboy once said, "It's high moon."
That joke was that bad it's good
@@coolthefool1 Thanks.
Hehehehe
A goose cowboy said "it's high loon"
The summer cowboy said, “it’s high June”
In my opinion, RDR2 is the perfect example of being in the fine line between historical accuracy and dumb fun
I'd say RDR1 felt like it captured the spirit of the actual West as it was a satire on the glorified version of it while RDR2 is more of a classical, idealized version of it, even down to its color palette.
@@themadtitan7603 More the setting then the actual style i would say, Cholla Springs and Armadillo still have that same gritty western vibe in RDR 2, except it literally looks like real life (the best looking place in the game in my opinion.)
@@thirdhandlv4231 That's because they were already part of RDR1's map. Looking beyond that though, everywhere from New Hanover to Ambarino to even an area from the first game like West Elizabeth is far greener, more colorful and has lost the grittiness from the first game. It was quite literally even inspired by an art movement at the time that depicted the frontier that way.
@@themadtitan7603 Yea but that is how it looks in real life for the most part, i do admit that the grass is a bit too bright and colorful though, but it does look nice.
Also they were heading east, so maybe it was a way to symbolize the difference between the west and the east more by using two different art styles when creating both.
@thirdhandlv4231 I'm not saying it looks bad. The game went for a specific art direction and it happens to be one that I'm very fond of, it's just there's the grittiness and authenticity to RDR1's depiction of the West that's gone imo. And even beyond the artstyle. Also, about them heading east thing, they're still very much in the West in RDR2. They mean east of the far west areas they operated in.
Mammoth Arizona in the early 1900s was everything you see in a Spaghetti Western. Mining town, more bars than Churches, or any other businesses, cowboys riding into town armed and looking for a good time, riverboats and riverboat gamblers, and gun fights in the streets on a regular basis. Some areas of the Wild West were actually Wild.
I agree, I visited Banack, WY, and there were bullet holes in the saloon where two different recorded shootouts took place. Definitely wild by modern standards!
Another Arizonan town, Two Guns, had the violence part down pat as well. The town itself isn't really there anymore, but in its heyday it was known for being a pretty lawless place, including at least one train robbery at the nearby Canyon Diablo.
Some, not all
You call that wild west? You guys had nothing on Mexico back then. In the 1800s several northern states tried to do a Texas and secede from Mexico, they had literally no laws because they were their own country, the army put down that insurrection real quick.
New Mexico has a lot of the same things.
The first lesson every film student learns in film history: Edison was an asshole.
You also learn that when studying the history of electricity (and possibly capital punishment). Edison suggested a Westinghouse generator be used for the electric chair so that Westinghouse (who had no interest in the electric chair) would forever be associated with gruesome deaths via electric current. This went nowhere, and Westinghouse is better known for his electric non-chair appliances, like stoves.
@@natesmodelsdoodles5403 Trying to remember: Did that generator also run off alternating current? Because I thought Edison planned on making bad publicity by association for Tesla too with that stunt. I could be wrong, though.
Lmao they made rdr2 into a real thing
@VADER r/woooosh
Said a kid who didn't see read more.
you fool it already existed before rdr2 its called red dead revolver
@@randomname2726 you're an idiot. The west has existed wayyy before red dead revolver. The west is actually based on the popular "The Man With No Name" series with Clint Eastwood
@@mhm3766 r/whoooosh
@@someguitardude8462 sir, I believe YOU got wooshed
God, Ennio Morricone's music is so ludicrously good.
May he Rest In Peace
Literally couldn’t pay attention to Blue because I couldn’t stop listening to “For a Few Dollars More” in the background
The only concert I have ever been to (or ever wanted to go to) was Ennio Morricone when he was in Adelaide 2012. Drove for 8 hours, and only went for that concert but totally worth it.
@@BumMcFluff oh wow that must have been amazing! Ennio Morriconi was truly a god among men
@@Will-vz3yf It really was amazing. Words can't do it or him justice.
On the gun control thing, true. But it was very specific. “No one’s saying you can’t own a gun. You just can’t bring your gun in town.” To quote a great western. Guns were legal, necessary and largely unregulated.
"Don't take your guns to town, boy."
Thats what gun control is.
So what you're saying is towns were a space meant to be free of guns. I wonder what we'd call that...hm... Oh! I know! "Gun Free Zone"! And we can put it on signs in the specific places they aren't allowed so people know! That could never backfire or piss anybody off!
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong Their approval isn't required, only their compliance. The idea of the judicious and responsible gun owner rings more than a little hollow when you live next to the family platter of fish and hicks who start going full auto into the woods AFTER the sun goes down.
I think one Clint Eastwood movie had a bar with "no guns" (also a fight broke out because of a said argument with sheriff) and The Man Who Shot Lucky Luke (new graphic novel) had to turn in his gun to a local Sheriff (I know it's Belgium comic, but many towns do have those policies).
*"Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.”*
From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!
Well from a certain point of view, the Highground is evil!
*MUH SAND*
Well from my point of view prequel memes are evil.
*THEN YOU ARE LOST!*
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the Mexican American War more.
well thats basically more war started by americans then blame mexico for it, with an excuse of invasion
thats pretty much what happened every time the USGov provided native americans with a share of land but when they needed that land they would create a dispute to get the natives out blaming them for it.
Mexico let in US immigrants, but the imigrants wanted their USA granted freedoms so they decided to secede Texas to the USA.
@@gunarsmiezis9321 yes, yes they did, and they wouldn't accept the rule of law from the established authorities, and they wouldn't shut up, even though many of them were former slave owners that left the US territories because they didn't win the civil war... cry babies, the lot... but we were supposed to "remember" when they were killed instead of being peacefully taken into custody... LMAO
@@gunarsmiezis9321 "the imigrants wanted their USA granted freedoms" right, good old freedoms like the right to own slaves.
@@yvonnethompson844 LMAO is what I have to say about your comment.
For it apears that you in all seriousness do not understand the USA got Texas before their civil war. If you actually take a look you will see that in the USA-Mexico war many good comanders would be generals in the civil war that happened decades later.
Not only were there spanish "vaqueros", there were also portuguese "vaqueiros" and similar things happened in Brazil.
and the mongolians had similar culture to this way before
@@alexalaniz5176 Yea
that explains why brazilains are so good in rodeos
"Literal Decimation" - no. Decimation means one in ten is killed.
For the natives, one in ten SURVIVED.
Yikes size: *BIG*
Decimation is literally the opposite of that. Decimate: Decim (10th), Ate (to Make). Decimate is to make 1/10th of the previous size. You're getting your size prefixes mixed up. There's a reason "decimated" is a term often used in fiction to refer to nearly-destroyed things.
@@BlueDavrial Not in it's original meaning. Decimation is a punishment that kills one in ten, not 9 out of 10.
Technically they are not natives they were just some of the first people to get here and as the original inhabits of Anatolia can tell you being first means fuck all not trying to excuse the tragedy American Indians (they prefer that title) experienced
@MinutemanSam Blue used the phrase "literal decimation". Now you could argue that the word "literal" doesn't mean what it used to, so feel free to educate me on what that means now.
There's also the point that there's a nice symmetry here. instead of the 10% death rate that decimation historically meant, there was a ~10% survival rate from the various plagues that the Europeans brought over.
If it weren't for those two facts, I would have sucked it up and not commented, but both were there so the comment was appropriate.
Yours Sincerely,
Arrzarr
I see the Wild West myth as a Fable instead of a misleading stereotype.
It can be two things. Fables can misinform every bit as they can inform.
If your only exposure to Native Americans, for example, is in fiction, and those fictions all portray Native Americans doing the same thing, you're going to internalize that. That's not a moral failing, that's just a consequence of how brains work.
It really is a myth, isn't it?
@Adversary American yeah, well if it only happend to one percent of the people who lived there, then it can be considered fables instead of "the true history". It's like talking about life in the nordic countries during the viking era and only mentioning the looting vikings did in places like Lindisfarne and picturing that as the "true" history of that era. Sure, it's not lying, it did happen. But it wasn't the only thing that happend.
@Adversary American But a very small number of people.
@Adversary American Sort of yes, just not in the ways usually described in fiction. True, there were a lot of young men spending months isolated, then rushing to blow their paychecks partying in townships especially built for that purpose - which led to some of the classic wild west shenanigans. Then there was "fighting" with the natives sure - just mostly contained to the army and farmers hit by retaliation. And gold rushes happened - but again, not really the same area or people. So a lot of people might have been a party to events - but those would be far spread out rather than every day life.
Tl:dr. Yes, things happened. No they did not all happen close to each other, to the same people or as often as depicted in fiction.
We're here to appreciate the accurate history of the Wild, Wild, West. But I'm mystified over Blue getting off the chair
I didn't even think it was possible. I guess anyone would panic and fling themselves across a room when McCree's Ult is ready
-B
He arises from the chair of explanation this shall be ridden in the history books
Speak for yourself, I'm here to appreciate Matt Mercer.
Theis the spade I mean I’d expect horses and trains to be more prominent but if you say so
I think most people would rather get up and hide behind that chair (unless you're zenyatta with his ult)
I actually ended up doing a ton of research on the Wild West for a game I ran a while back and I came to a realization:
The reason why the Wild West had this mythological, almost legendary status appear that tells wild tales of wild men and their lives despite this seemingly not actually being the case is because of a very interesting circumstance:
Wild Bill, Billy the Kid, Wyatt Earp, Seth Bullock, Calamity Jane, and nearly all of the other Heroes and fabled figures of the Wild West were all alive and active during one specific time period: the years between 1870 and 1890. Many of them would die in this time period too. So, while the Wild West itself never actually existed as the movies and dime novels would have us believe, there was a fleeting moment: a single lifetime of a mere 20 years, when it really did. All these movies and stories of the cowboys and their adventures actually happened in a very narrow time frame between when the west was first getting settled and when the Federal Government was actually able to exert control over the frontier and bring about law & order.
Naturally, with so many huge figures of the era all living in a single slice of time for that era, that's the specific time frame that got immortalized due to their doings, and thus it's the one that most of the world knows due to its impact on popular culture then and now.
Thank you man i could have not said it better myself tell people what he is saying is not true and that the western was wild for a time and still to day if u go into some of the lower income homes it's still wild with gangs and police brutality and gun violence and riots and this is coming from a person that then almost seen it all at a young age and don't go out side that much
Now that you say that, if I remember correctly the same thing happened with piracy too. The age was a relatively short one with a huge explosion of activity
Another big inaccuracy is that native Indians were averse to technology and fought with sticks and stones.
This is absolutely untrue. In the American west there was a overabundance of guns and ammunition due to the civil war and many native Americans actually had guns on par or even better than those of the US army as the US army had decided against the more sophisticated repeaters in favor of reliable single shot rifles.
When it came to using firearms on horseback the American native Indians were arguably the best in the world. To the point the American army even hired them to help their their own dragoon and cavalry forces.
The Wild West is of interest ultimately because it posed philosophical questions due to its very circumstances. These circumstances don't exist in the same way today, but the philosophical questions are universal and timeless. In the Wild West, there was maximum freedom but minimal government, and that back-drop is super attractive to people as the theater for what constitutes a moral life, and how should good people deal with bad people when there is no law enforcement? What is the point of having laws when no one will adhere to them or enforce them? We still must face these circumstances nearly every day.
There's also the robber barons and situations like the Johnson County War that were seemingly pretty common at the time.
"It may sound surprising but nearly all settlements had strict firearms regulations". This is not the case. There were five towns that had laws that disarmed people in town. Most settlements simply had rules prohibiting negligent discharge of firearms. The Smithsonian article on gun control in the Wild West overstates the case. There's some good academic responses to it that I recommend you guys read. The other objection I have to your characterization of the Wild West as not being all that wild is that you focused on ranching instead of mining. If you look at mining towns, like Bodie (or much later, Dawson) then you'll see that the classic Wild West tropes actually took place there.Barfights ending in someone getting shot. Stagecoach robberies, etc. The New York times would use "a man from Bodie" as a synonym for a tough guy even out on the East Coast. Gurr's "Violence in America" states that most crimes in Bodie were rare, but homicides were a regular occurrence, usually between willing participants. It had a murder rate 25x higher than Boston! The low crime other than homicide was due to everyone being armed, again according to Gurr. So your notion that "everyone having guns tends to cause more problems than it solves" isn't really right.
A murder rate 25 times higher than usual seems like a bad trade-off for a lower rate of pickpocketing or whatever.
@@the_exegete haha my thoughts exactly
Gun control didnt exist until relatively recently.... Ca (one of the wost states in the nation gun rights wise) only banned open carry in 2012
@@PikxDizzy why would you tell a lie this dumb directly under a video that debunks your lie
@@PikxDizzy CA also has the third most amount of guns in public hands, something people seem to ignore
Hey, nitpick - a lot of the Spaghetti Westerns were made by Italians in Spain, not Italy. It's got really nice Western-y landscapes. If I remember correctly the entire Dollars Trilogy was shot there.
That Django poster at 9:50 also lists it (at the bottom) as an Italian-Spanish co-production.
Both Southern Spain and Southern Italy/Sicily. They've both got roughly the right environment for it and both/all of the locations were utilized. I think Franco specifically put lower restrictions in place for filming in Spain though, making it more attractive not just for Italian filmmakers but film production in general, for instance, Patton was filmed in large part in Spain - using actual Spanish army equipment. I guess when 'autarky' fails you can always outsource your country as a film set.
Fuck off
Additionally, they often borrowed heavily from samurai films like Seven Samurai.
@@justinjacobs1501 And THE SEVEN SAMURAI itself borrowed from westerns!
There was gun control in the west...so r u saying that there wasn't a gunfight scheduled every high noon? If they didn't do that then how they figure out what time it was?
clocks were still there, and sundials also existed
Ring the bell.
a year a go, but.. the town business women, would fund schools, and the clocks were at the rail stations. we also had these things, that the tiny pockets are on pants for.. called pocket watches...;)
terrybull spellr u can use the sun to tell the time
@@adrianp7574 Not on a cloudy day.
I thought RD2 actually did a good job at portraying a more diverse perspective, the natives were not portrayed as savage but as people losing land to encroaching government and industry, the leader of the gang " Dutch" often criticized government administration, the gang itself was diverse and often covered themes and issues some of these people faced in those times. Certainly there was some embellishment. I also remember playing a quest were the protagonist has to interview and photograph famous gunslingers which almost eluded to the farce and embellishments of their feats. I thought RD2 put considerable research into the plot.
Funnily enough, in the Eastern European popular consciousness, in the “cowboys vs Indians” context, the cowboys are almost always the bad guys & I don’t even think that’s just Soviet anti American propaganda. I think European takes on westerns tended to do this in general, though with a dose of the noble savage trope
That makes sense, kinda how the US typically see Western empires as the bad guys against their colonized countries. Gotta have hypocritical views to be a world power at some point.
in most modern movies, the cowboys are the bad guys, even here in NE, squarely part of the wild west.
@@hwitt2237 Red Dead tends to be...good-ish, mostly anti-heroes.
Though by 1's timeline, native americans are essentially "curtailed" with Dutch's gang being made up of them.
2 mostly involved Indians fighting against the government with cowboys saving them while also using it as cover to rob the oil company stationed there.
As a Brit I remember playing it as a kid, and I don't recall either side really being the "bad guys"
It was just two sides on doing weird mouth sounds and the other pretending to be cowboys
@@Dryhten1801 I was talking more about how people viewed the rivalry between the two in the western genre of movies and books than the children’s game but I see how my wording may have been confusing
I imagine Edison just staring with some big binoculars at Hollywood like "damn, it's too far away. I'll get them eventually." or like the grinch.
For a good chunk of the "cowboys" period, most Native Americans had guns. Not as many as the US Government, of course; the government could get them wholesale from good ol' gunsmiths, while the natives had to buy whatever weapons traders brought by. But they had the.
Hell, they often bought BETTER guns than the army was issued! They really embraced the lever action repeater when the army had only just started getting into breech loaders.
Depends on who you are talking about, what region you are talking about, and what time period you are talk about. Many natives in the Midwest and Great Plains were outmatched by US soldiers during the Spanish American War, Civil War, and afterwards. Many first and second hand sources (many times from the chiefs themselves) state that the Lakota, Cheyanne, and Arapaho were using older rifles while the US army had newer ones that could shoot far more rounds per minute. There is a reason why there are so few Native victories. The US army had more men to throw at them, had tactics designed for "modern" warfare, and had newer equipment most of the time.
Yeah, as I understand it, the US gun industry was just terrible for a long time, and the Natives positively scorned American made guns, insisting on only buying high quality European ones.
One of the principle factors that caused the development of a proper US gun industry was a desire to compete with British arms companies in the sales of weapons to the Native American nations. Which ironically created a surplus of weapons, which made the gun companies started marketing to encourage settlers to also buy guns, thus reversing the largely negative view of guns that American settlers had had until around the 1840s, and creating the gun culture of today (also creating a powder keg for native/settler skirmishes, but that's another story).
@@olivercuenca4109
What's your source for this gun history? That sounds like a terribly interesting read.
Bosnakedisniksic: Sorry, but you've BADLY mixed up the Time Lines. You mention both the Spanish American War (1899-1900) and the Civil War (1861-1865) in the same sentence. The United States Army officially states that the Indian Wars ended in 1890, nine YEARS before the beginning of the Spanish American War.
Blue: The government was MASSIVELY overpowered
General Custer: I'm gonna do what's called a pro gamer move
horse wall
6:58 I thought Bass Reeves was the real life equivalent of the Lone Ranger.
he was.
Are you trying to say that Batman wasn't also the Lone Ranger?
All superheroes are the Lone Ranger. So by extension, all superheroes are just Bass Reeves knockoffs.
@@the_exegete And then by extension of that all superheros are just Bass Reeves without Bass Reeves.
To put it more simply: *YEE HAW*
Game Generation howdy
First off, as a Texan who is also a historian, thank you for addressing this. I'm a tad bit disappointed in not mentioning the constant conflicts between the cattle drives and the farmers who were understandably upset at several thousand head of cattle stampeding through their crops, but you had so much to cover in such a little time that it's easily overlooked. But sadly, cowboys were more often in conflict with settled farmers than they were native americans.
I suspect the whole 'cowboy vs indian' was a way to politely sweep under the rug the fact that those weren't cowboys, they were military units, Calvary Dragoons, and we were waging wars to conquer the west. My son is in Jr. High, and none of his Texan History or American History texts even MENTION all the conflicts. They just... hand-wave it with 'and then Manifest Destiny happened, so let's cut to the Civil War'. But hey, Cowboys rode horses, were typically armed, and at least were theoretically in the same general region as the native tribes, so... let's create a noble archetype and sweep all the atrocities committed under the rug, eh? Something something Trail of Tears? Anyone? Yea, that wasn't mentioned either.
Also, as far as 'guns over bows'... that was only true after they came up with the idea of cased ammunition. Horse archers were very much the equal to muzzle-loading flintlocks. They call the Winchester '73 the 'gun that won the west', and while there's a bit of glamor to that, there's also a grain of truth. But before Winchester became so famous, the technological advance that really gave the US Military the advantage over the various native tribes was the percussion cap and the cartridge, which enabled calvary to fire on the move and to dramatically increase the rate of fire and accuracy (due to a more precise level of control over powder to shot and other considerations). Until the 1830's, the powerful bows of the plains tribes actually had superior rate of fire, ammo capacity, and at least in some cases effective range than the US military firearms.
But once the expansive cartridge case came out, and people started figuring out how to do semi-automatic fire through either revolvers or repeating rifles, and advances in mobile artillery like breech-loading howitzers and gatling guns.... the native tribes never stood a chance. Except in one particularly famous incident because General Custer was a racist idiot who couldn't pour piss out of a boot without the instructions being printed on the heel.
Also something else often overlooked is that the native Indians weren't at all averse to technology and actually in several conflicts most notably the famous battle at Littlewood the native Indians were better equipped than the US troops. Most Indians at littlewood were used Winchester 73's while the American cavalry troops were using single shot rifles.
During the latter half of the 19th century many native Indian tribes actually were superior cavalry gunners than those of the US or in Europe. They were so good that the US army even hired some to teach their dragoon legions.
With general Custer he indeed was an idiot but it's also important to keep in mind that with the absence of cannons the natives and the Americans were pretty much on par technology wise.
The reason for this is because there had just been the American civil war which of course led to a huge increase in army size which means a huge increase in weapons. When the war ended the army was scaled down again which let to a huge surpluss of weapons. You also had massive weapons factories that kept going for quite a while after the war so guns and ammunition were cheap as dirt at the time. The US army at the time also was not super on top of things as Mexico was no threat nor was Canada so they didn't upgrade their rifles to the latest models. It might be hard to believe but in the late 19th century mos civileans had weapons that were more advanced than what the US army was using.
Hell, the natives were famous for utilizing repeating rifles before a lot of military units, which were often stuck with at best breach-loading rifles and clunky Spencer carbines for certain cavalry units
As a History major from Tennessee I can confirm that my state does the same sweeping under the rug. We do mention the trail of tears on account of the Cherokee being from our area. However the blame gets shoved on President Andrew Jackson who defiantly deserves some of it but there were far more people pushing for them to be pushed off then just one president. And while the state says it is regrettable they do not see it as a mistake that they need to help correct.
In general southern states do not like teaching things that paint them in a bad light. Which has several examples: the Wild West myths, the claim of states rights being what caused the Civil War when there is far more evidence that it was slavery. Lastly the mass purging of African American history in Florida.
The problem I have is the”spaghetti western is a derogatory term” when Hollywood westerns are called ‘pulp westerns’ because oranges grow in California, it is just slang
Wow they made a real era in history after red dead redemption
That’s some serious dedication
I’m sure rockstar appreciates that they made this time period a thing after their game
People: *constantly talk about my fascination with history*
Me: *realizes I know next to nothing about the recent history in my own country*
OK you got me..where are you from?
😏🍸
Same boat, my interest drops directly after 1776 when all the history books I had just became "go us!" and a bunch of waspy old men signing bills instead of the great names that carved out their place in the world with fire and sword and then settled down to grow a culture.
@@JackSilver1410 The Spanish fought and funded that war, no mention of that in history books.
History is written by the winners, and the winners will ensure their stories are written in gold. You'll never see these stories because the truth, well, the truth is that we are in a country of corruption and murder, painted as beauty. In truth, we're almost in a worse place than North Korea, not because we have worse off lives, but because how blind and ignorant we are not just to the rest of the world, but our own history
Remember if a cowboy says "high noon"
Be sure you have ninja evasion skills
Unless you are fighting Billy the Kid, that dude ignore evasion and deal crit damage like a monster.
Or your ass up and that's not a joke from Tumblr....I means duck and cover
Or a sword.
i need healing
This was like years ago and no one's paying attention and maybe it was brought up and couldn't find it scrolling down two pages: Spaghetti Westerns filmed by italians in Italy? Nope. Filmed by italians, In Spain. Because Italy doesn't have vast expanses of flat deserts. Or flat anything
Almería specifically
There's an additional element blended into the Hollywood gunslinger 'cowboy' that created the modern archetype: the samurai, or more precisely the ronin. 60s Westerns, and especially Spaghetti Westerns, drew a significant amount of influence from Japanese movies just a few years earlier. See 'The Magnificent Seven' or even 'A Fistful of Dollars' for examples. The roaming gunslinger character that never really existed in America is an interesting cultural artifact from a very different environment.
Rdr2 is actually accurate wow
Profile picture?
Agreed whats with that profile pic
@@julitotellado4652 I like it and I thought It was funny
Elijahwildwarlok 7 bruh
@@cmdrfrosty3985 its hot af ngl
I’m looking for my friend Lenny
lennyyyyy
He is tending the rabbits
YNNEL ?
Im sorry. He is......
@@williamchristenson9038 Lennie????
This is by far my favourite CZcams video made on the notion of the American Frontier/Wild West.
Being a non-American, It really did help put a lot of things in clear perspective.
You've gained a sub!
This video is innacurate
Wild West 5 years ago: don’t care
Wild West 4-now years: RDR2 RDR2 RDR2 RDR2... and so on
There isn't enough room in this comment section for the 506,000+ of us.
.
..
...
DRAW!
BAM!
*furiously scribbles on a sketchpad.*
Inquisitor White oh no you don't *uses deflect*
*starts playing jangly saloon piano*
Bang! You're dead.
"If you're gonna shot, shot. Cut the chit-chat."
That conclusion is something I've been harping on for years now.
On the origin of the cowboy myth, there's a vital component that wasn't covered here - one that is so vital that not covering it significantly hurts your conclusion. And I'm going to be super pedantic, but it is necessary to dispel this omission, and a few myths (at the end) that are present in this video. Remember, Edison's most successful film was a cowboy flic, so the myth long predates hollywood. People were complaining about T.Roosevelt's presidency by calling him a cowboy, and as a historian, he had written extensively about cowboys more than a decade prior.
But the most import piece of the myth that fueled hollywood was historiography. Frederick Jackson Turner instilled the myth of American exceptionalism with his Frontier Thesis. When it finally died in the 1960s and 70s, so too did the western genre. The reason why cowboys were so popular is that they were represented as the final wave of expansion before settlement, thereby being the last to civilize the frontier and make a nation. Turner should be a pivotal component of any discussion of the frontier mythos in Hollywood.
Some good books on the subject are Henry Nash Smith, _Virgin Land: The American West as Symbol and Myth_ (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1950). Frank Richard Prassel, _The Great American Outlaw: A Legacy of Fact and Fiction_ (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1993). And of course Richard Slotkin's _Regeneration through Violence_ trilogy: Richard Slotkin, _Regeneration through Violence: The Mythology of the American Frontier, 1600-1860_ (Middletown, Conn.: Wesleyan University Press, 1973). Richard Slotkin, _The Fatal Environment: The Myth of the Frontier in the Age of Industrialization, 1800-1890_ (New York: Atheneum Books, 1985). Richard Slotkin, _Gunfighter Nation: The Myth of the Frontier in Twentieth-Century America_ (New York: Atheneum Books, 1992). Smith and Slotkin are basically required reading for any discussion of Hollywood cowboys, and Slotkin is an avid debunker of Based on a True Stories about the West.
Also on the whole gun-control in the West thing. Laws mandating turning weapons in when entering town or restricting open carry were common in Kansas and Arizona, but not so much for the other territories or states. Kansas especially only had such laws in most cowtowns because of the rampant cowboy violence. San Francisco tried to impose it in 1857, because of the vigilante political party that held power, but was basically never enforced, and the high murder rate continued.
There was a great debate in the history profession over whether the West was especially violent. Go back to Roger D. McGrath, _Gunfighters Highwaymen & Vigilantes: Violence on the Frontier_ (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1984) - who has an entire section on the debate. The matter has mostly been settled as historians have begun to do more detailed work. For instance, John Mack Faragher, _Eternity Street: Violence and Justice in Frontier Los Angeles_ (New York: W. W. Norton, 2016) - has fairly well proven the violence of Southern California was orders of magnitude worse than any violence in the East at the time or since. My MA thesis calculated the murder rate of San Luis Obispo County to be even higher. You won't find many historians arguing the orthodox view that the West was only as bad as the East. So the "wildness" of the west, if that simply refers to violence, is very well founded. Of course it doesn't just refer to violence, but that is not what you referred to in this.
Now I really need to make an episode about the Hollywood western.
Underrated comment.
Please do make that episode.
Name checks out
Hi there The Cynical Historian
When you scroll down to see if anyone else caught the gun control misrepresentation, and you find a mini The Cynical Historian episode script.
I think the most authentic approach to the cowboy archetype was the Mexican one, the vaquero. In that time legends like Emiliano Zapata or pancho Villa were fighting against the government, there was a lot of rebellion and people finding a way to live outside of the rules, leaving everything behind (almost like even today lol).
Anyway, the "wild" adjective goes very well with te chaotic México back in the day.
‘Turns out everyone having guns is a bad idea’
Kennesaw, Georgia ; am I a joke to you?
Pro Tip: If you hear "It's high nooon." Run.
Or be a fat man with a pig mask and a chain
Or hide
Or be a Asian Bowman with Dragon Powers and Gay
PowahSlap Entertainmint why do you watch everything that I watch
I'm going to say that at my lunch period.
Read dead redemption 2:
*Quantum physics forbids this*
Red
Nobody:
Absolutely no one:
That one weird guy: The laws of Quantum physics do not bound me.
10:38
My favorite pet of the Wild West. Robot Buddhists.
"Turns out everyone having guns tends to cause more problems than it solves."
The NRA has denounced this statement.
Denounced, yes. But not disproven.
bah, self protection is always your responsibility
*ahem*
The Virginia church incident where a man using a gun stopped a mass shooter
If we're going to get into events, you're outnumbered
@@ethanmcfarland8240 And... then count all the mass shootings which.. WEREN'T stopped. then compare them to the similar rate (shootings stopped vs shootings carried out) in all other developed nations and... cry yourself to sleep. you don't need to stop mass shooters if you have rules which prevent obviously deranged individuals from having stunningly easy access to firearms.
That Doesn’t Really Yee my Haw
Cowboy is only mentioned in outfits and about twice in dialogue in rdr2
The outfit makes sense because marston is a rancher
The dialogue is poking fun at Arthur for herding the sheep/ working on a ranch for a bit, it’s mentioned in dialogue as well.
I've been watching your channel literally the whole day today :) Red, you're as lovely in real life as your cartoon drawing implies :) You got yourselves a new sub :)
Everyone always translates Vaquero to "cowboy", but grammatically, its more accurate to say "cattleman"
0:34 I love that this new rendering of Blue looks a lot more like actual real life Blue.
And by "actual real life" I mean "His hair looks different and more like his real life counterpart". It's cool to see a change like that reflect the passage of time and people changing in real life too.
Same. If I weren't fifteen, anyway.
10/10 “Dutch would approve” -Arthur Morgan
AnthonyCreeps That isn’t really a staple of quality now is it
@@noahchmielewski1347 Hey, that's a little disrespectful
@@blizzit1211 How's Tahiti?
@@jjdrucker953 mangoes
2 things I'd like to argue with:
1. Guns were plenty prevalent on the frontier. While some towns did have carry bans, pocket guns, derringers, and Bowie knives were very popular at the time for their ability to be concealed. Many people also had concealed holsters inside their pants, vests, or jackets.
2. The "lawmen" were often corrupt officials as was common with 19th century American law enforcement. Even moreso on the frontier where it was easier to get away with it. Many were on the take with local cattle barons, brothels, and gambling dens.
Many native cultures had raiding as a central cultural pillar, as did many tribal cultures in ancient europe. While many massacres were perpetrated by the military when they were involved, many pioneer settlements were raided by native peoples in attacks where they had the upper hand, and they also spilled their share of innocent blood. While among the native tribes these raids were seen as custom, and the property and women seized were often seen as part of life, the "white" man's attachment to personal property made them often react with lethal violence to these raids, which escalated what were usual raids into war-like conflicts. Once these conflicts were setup and the army cavalry got involved the issue changed. But both groups would mostly target soft targets ie: unarmed civilians. The natives were rarely stupid enough to stand against a cavalry division, and the govt would target villages when their warbands were away. When you came up against natives that had adopted cavalry and guns the playing filed became more balanced, but just looking at the outcome can show who had the upper hand all along.
So, one semi-significant historical detail you kind of missed/glossed over (possibly just because of time): The Mormons. There's a pretty notable exception to the characterization of the area between California and Kansas as being devoid of (white) Americans and only settled based on resources and the railroad, as a religious group settled a swath of land from Idaho to Arizona as they fled persecution in the "civilized" part of the United States (most notably the extermination order in Missouri) and established themselves in a territory they managed to not actually get kicked out of. Of course, Mormon country isn't the setting for the typical western, and when it does come into play in media it's mythologized as its own kind of wild (because, y'know, if you're going to make entertaining movies about the wild west, of course you capitalize on and exaggerate the weirdness of the religious group across a significant part of the region if you mention them at all), but still... history's pretty big, and there's always more to the story.
THANK YOU FOR INCLUDING THIS! I was wondering if people just totally forgot about all the settlers who dominated from Southern Idaho to Northern Arizona, and I was hoping in the video he would debunk some of the crazy things portrayed in wild western movies depicting religion, but I was sadly disappointed. Thanks!
Maybe the historical facts concerning the persecution of a largely white peaceful religious minority by people supported by government policies did not fit the tone of this video.
Thank you very much. Being raised Mormon, and being, myself, white as wonder bread, yeah, I take exception to being rainbow-washed out of my own history.
Mostly only Zane Grey novels even talk about the Mormon pioneers, and usually just to vilify them to hear a brother of mine talk about them. But what you've said is, eh, basically accurate. I mean, Mark Twain talks about meeting Brigham Young in 'The Innocent Abroad', but it's doubtful he ever did.
Silly commenter no one cares that. White Christians were once oppressed
One of my Paternal Great great grandfathers was sent by Brigham Young to the Pima Valley (Pima/Safford/Thatcher) in Arizona to help set up a community there. He and his wife are buried in the Pima cemetery. This was after their children were all adults and they were free to travel to far flung locations.
You forgot about the Mormons.
Yeah it's easy to forget the massive blob of people who came out here to the most gawd-awful spot so people would leave us the heck alone.
But I was also thinking twice because
What's the FIRST rule of a healthy CZcams channel?
We don't talk about the Mormons
What's the SECOND rule of a healthy CZcams channel?
We don't talk about the Mormons
What's the THIRD rule of a healthy CZcams channel?
THERE ARE NO RULES THE COMMENT SECTION IS GONNA DO IT ANYWAY
I don't think you guys contributed as much to the idea of a wild rough west. I'm not 100% sure on Mormon history though
@@renworksfornow not to the west being Wild or Rough no, except in a few odd cases; we mostly settled and organized a lot of the area away from the strip of west coast that the government originally found interesting and worth living in. heh. However some of our guys helped build Sutter's Mill and were there during/part of the disovery of gold that led to the famous Rush, and that might have made the west a bit wilder. Those guys of ours were only there because they'd opted to march that direction and assist the Army during the Mexican-American War. Google 'Mormon Battalion' for an interesting read on Wikipedia. Seems accurate, and apparently one of Sacagawea's boys joined as a guide. A lot of interesting stuff happened as a result and it made our trip west a lot less difficult.
Then again we didn't get along with all of the Native Americans we encountered, and had several wars, or assisted the U.S. Army in theirs from time to time- heck we kinda skirmished the U.S. Army for a while because we thought they were after us on false charges of sedition from the Union. It was partially because of this and during that time that the Mountain Meadows Massacre took place and it was pretty sad. For some of those immediately involved it may have been personal because of what we had experienced out east, but Brigham did not give an order to do it as I have heard some say. Get to know him for five minutes; he was much too sensible and witty to do something so monumentally stupid, his responsibilities aside.
@@renworksfornow Look up Porter Rockwell. He was Brigham Young's bodyguard and he was converted when he crashed Joseph Smith's party and called him out. (He didn't know him from Adam) and he was claimed to have Samsons strength if he never cut his hair. He did cut his hair to give a wig to a scalped woman so he lived in a cave until it grew back. John Moses Browning, famous gun designer, Mormon. Heck Mormon banks helped to build Vegas. They aren't as perfect as you think.
I can't believe that today was when I learned the origin of buckaroo
Thank you so much for this video! it wasn’t only super interesting but also so helpfull for me to understand this period of the American history
Hollywood is the bane of all history buffs.
Hollywood is the bane of all* (accept those who own it)
True. Ask the people who made "Trumbo" about Dalton Trumbo himself, and they'll say, "WHAT Communist Party USA ties? Never heard of them."
I live in northern Mexico (Monterrey) and traditional cowboy culture is big here.
Totally not No One hey, I'm from mty too
I've met more Mexican 'cowboys' than American ones, and this is in New Jersey. o.O
Gotta get them boots and belt buckles.
All my life I believed that the "vaqero" style and culture was something that Mexico borrowed from America, now I know that it was the opposite way.
Btw I'm from Coahuila.
@@RiusakiAkumawell mexico borrowed it from New Spain, back when there were more Spanish in the Americas, Mexicans are now very different than New Spanish.
Fortunately, the fact that cowboys were a diverse bunch was one of the things that I was taught when I was little.
To be fair, the kind of exageration that characterizes Western stories has happened for pretty much every historical period. The popular idea of pirates, vikings, knights, ninja, Spartans, gladiators etc. is all just as much based upon fiction as the idea of gunslinging cowboys is. And this isn't particular to just the modern era either. People have always turned the past into legend. Ancient Greeks made legends about people from the Trojan War. Ancient Romans made legends about people from the early days of Roman history. Medieval Europeans made legends about early Medieval kings and heroes such as Charlemagne. Medieval Chinese made legends about people from the Three Kingdoms period. As a period that easily grasps people's imagination, it is no surprise that the "Wild West" became another such period to be a source of legends. The only difference is that the Wild West is still comparatively recent and its actual history is relatively well-recorded, thus making it possible to more accurately distinguish the facts from the legends, which for older historical periods is often not possible.
But I don't think Western stories are any less fun and exciting because they are based on legend rather than fact. I also don't think that analyzing the difference between the real West and the legendary West is very productive or interesting. It would be more interesting to instead analyze what it is about this historical period that attracts people's imagination so much, and what makes us want to legendarize certain historical periods in the first place.
Reeves was amazing.
Despite killing 14 men and arresting ~3000 (including his own son), he never got shot.
And after 32 years he lost his job as a lawman when Oklahoma gained statehood, because of his skin colour.
*I T ' S H I G H N O O N*
*looks a pfp*
BOB ,do something
I love the Ennio Morricone tunes in the background.
As an indigenous scholar that researches the histories of colonization in the upper midwest, let me just say... you still haven't de-romanticized "the West". You've described it as 1. mostly peaceful, and 2. Strictly managed, and both of these points are horrendously revisionist in the eyes of native people like myself. Every policy the United States put into effect was to the detriment of indigenous people one way or another, and often time the affects of colonization-- whether it be disposession, displacement, slavery, genocide, etc.-- were often formed as a result of the outright neglect the US Government had towards the indigenous people had in turning us into "domestic dependent" colonial subjects (which we still are today.) I would love to talk more about this to help work as a consultant on these issues but for now I'm content with watching the rest of the channel's content. I really do appreciate the work you do towards recognizing the histories of indigenous cultures in the Americas towards a broader audience, even if your content can sometimes give the wrong impressions. I'll leave you with this tragic impression about the current state of US-Native Relations: "There's only 3 things the United States measures the blood quantum of: dogs, horses, and Native Americans."
Despite how unrealistic it is, the lone wanderer hero archetype has always been my go-to when creating characters for RPGs. I love how unattached they are to the world around them and how their strength comes entirely from themselves. With only their moral codes to guide them, they wander the world as a strangers. There's something very romantic about that notion.
Well, the 19th century was the century of romanticism, the claim of the individual in search for something meaningful, and I guess that played a huge part in how Hollywood percieves cowboys and the stories that were told about them
Well, to be fair another one of the big reasons why the natives folded easily to the US military was also because the various tribes and nations were, well, tribes and nations. They had constant fights, disputes, skirmishes, and even all out wars between themselves and half the time they would ally themselves with the settlers and try to buy guns so they could kill their neighbours and take their stuff just as any small horde of nations were wont to do, and the government took advantage of this fact.
There's a reason why many tribes even in the reservations would spit at the mention of the Apache and Crow, and why when Utah petitioned for statehood there were tons of Shashone but virtually no actual Utes around. These were all individual nations with their own grudges and conflicts which the federal government was easily able to take advantage of by selectively targeting certain tribes for assisted destruction while giving others support to attack more people before turning on them in kind, just as the Romans did with the various tribes when it invaded Gaul except without the presence of fabulous cheekbones.
Can't forget the decimation they'd faced just prior to the westward expansion due to European diseases, either.
But having a highly decentralized system of societies definitely didn't help in the long run.
way to unify a conflicted nation then America SAY I wonder how the middle east is structured these days... history repeats it self.
Here's a tip England and France, don't make deals behind everyone's back that's going to have major repercussions done the line that the United States is going to have to clean up.
Yeah, everyone likes to forget that everyone in history was a cunt to everyone else.
What government in the history of humanity has not believed it's subjects were to be subjugated in thought and deed?
Yeah, we're all stupid to the powers that be. And sadly, they're right. As a whole we are pretty dumb and eat stuff up. It's individuals that see things for what they are, but are rather powerless to do much.
cowboys and the natives got along a lot better than most know. uncle Sam hadda paint someone as the aggressor besides themselves.
I feel like the most chaos would have been when an area was first being settled, but that chaos is unproductive, so it gets stomped out.
I guess that the wild west "era" is essentially the american "mythic age", since they lack the sufficient depth of history that europeans do, hence why medieval era was the european "mythic age", because that was a while ago when people actually sounded badass (and they really weren't, swordfighting in reality is what I call "a massive disappointment")
It wasnt that we lacked sufficient documentation of the happenings, it was the lack of distribution that allowed ignorance of the west to run rampant. They relied on guys riding on horseback to get info from one place to another. If you tried doing that from California to Boston, you'd die in Texas.
The train helped, but was still slow and hell, mixed with the lack of proper protections as they did get robbed or derailed quite regularly.
Something we learned a few years prior while investigating towns and settlements in modern times is that they kept deep recordings of trade, events and people that came through, and had much of what one would need to document. The problem is that they rarely kept these documents safe (leading to their destruction) or the gaps in info made many of them useless in the end. It was actually a hobby of a friend to go out west into now titled 'Ghost Towns' and pop open stuff to find any documents or things he could donate. You'd be surprised the amount of stuff we just leave lying around, even after a good hundred years.
European mythic age is actually more the migration period (starting about 370 AD) than what most people think about when they say medieval times. There wasn't much mythic stuff after 800 AD.
this is true, however, I'd argue that popular culture distorted that far beyond that time period, what with certain romantic works and the like distorting legends like Arthur to the classic fantasy we think of, dragons knights and castle's (which would either be some roman fort ruins (like the origin of Lincoln) or a hillfort right? I haven't done history in years) and stuff, which would make the comparison more apt than initially considered, but that's just what I think and you're entitled to think otherwise
While many actual European myths were based more on the early Middle Ages ("based on" is important, they have very little to do with actual history), that has shifted since Romanticism, 19th century nationalism, and modern-day Fantasy, all of which romanticise the high Middle Ages (11-1300s) more than the earlier stuff.
well in most fights I've been in against my friend, and ones I've seen second hand they generally only last 30 seconds tops, with one or two blows exchanged, it's not the flashy romantic sword battles of film or whatever so real-life duelling is painfully utilitarian (as it probably should be when you're life's on the line), and so I prefer more stealthy interesting tactics utilised by spies/assassins/scouts and such because their stuff is very much more interesting and impressive (like how shinobi would take logs and put them under lakes so to the observer it looks like the shinobi runs on water and so on), obviously they're not what media cracks them up to be either, but I think they're still more interesting to watch as an observer
Not that I disagree with anything stated in this video but a common strategy the U.S. government used to get around recently made treaties was to encourage homesteaders to settle on land promised to native tribes. They knew this would inevitably lead to conflict between the natives and the homesteaders. Then they would turn around and use the ensuing or perceived violence to cut down the tribe. So in a sense you would see some "Cowboy vs. Indians" action prior to the arrival army who was waiting for things to kick off.
True, true! It was more so a fight of who could get to where faster than an immediate fight to the death. It wasn't even just the natives versus homesteaders, but homesteaders against homesteaders too. It got brutal at times.
And indians vs indians, tribal societies are violent at the best of times
Saying "the U.S. government" is disingenuous. Say the Republican government, because that's accurate. The South became a vassal state, military occupied, during Reconstruction, during the Wild West. They didn't have the power, and the Indian Nations were allies with them against the North. The Democrats didn't wipe out the indians, they couldn't even win a Presidential election for decades.
@@IggyTthunders This was a strategy existed prior to the civil war and was used against some tribes in the south. Also it is wholely incorrect to refer to south as a "vassal state" that would infer that the CSA as an entity was allowed to continue its existence rather than being destroyed.
The South was a vassal state, or, really, a prison farm at that point: because prisoners are not allowed to leave.
"have fun while playing red dead 2 but recognize that the damaging elements ..."
bro red dead is good. it has done its homework on the matter
I'm stressin the fUCK OUT rn and my anxiety is in turbo overdrive. I just wanna say thank you two and your crew for making videos that have a calm and consistent tone/volume that are also educational, so I can distract myself and still feel like I'm being productive in some way
Half of this pretty wrong and mostly take place in a calm area of america. If you check places like bodie you'll see the WILD west
Fun fact, Leone's western were usually shot in Spain, we don't really have deserts in Italy.
Also, the "gio" in Sergio is roughly pronounced like Joe :P
We do have some arid lands like the Crete Senesi
It's interesting to compare the American romanticized version of the West with the German romanticized version of the West. Thanks mostly to a wildly popular series of books written by Karl May in the late 19th century, Germans often view Native Americans as noble people living in harmony with nature. The cowboy plays a much smaller part and the major themes are less man conquering nature and more man returning to nature and a simpler time.
the only wild thing in the west was the US government killing natives, mexicans, enslaving negroes and chinese
Both are wrong and bad :(
Kevin Sullivan comparing one pile of shit to another pile of shit doesn’t change the fact that you’re talking about shit. Both was horrible. Done.
@@19ars92 And animals, cuz they’re wild.
@@EnigmaEnginseer
well america's founding fathers were slave owners so im not even suprised.
Me and my old English teacher used to have this completion of who could get to Oregon the fastest on the Oregon Trail. This was because at the time that was one of the only games in my school that the firewall had failed to claim.
Solid video, although its worth noting that the gunslingers of spaghetti westerns didnt come from nowhere as an archetype, they pulled heavily from Japanese cinema and samurai movies. The relationship between A Fist Ful of Dollars and the movie Yojimbo is worth looking into
Blue is forgetting to explicitly state the presence of multiple nations in the "wild west."
The Wild West myth is mostly a US myth. So why bring in the other countries?
This also is just a summarizing, not a lengthy video essay. There is a lot that hasn't been mentioned, but could have.
What else do want from a 11.5 minute Video? The Mexican/Texan War with the Alamo? The Pony Express? The Civil War?
It was touched upon, but not gotten into detail. It could be easily forgiven since this isn’t a full exploration of the topic and just a basic summary of the events to get the topic disgusted.
In Mexico it was real we had real bandits . Like Pancho Villa
Pancho Villa wasn't a bandit, he was a Revolutionary who was murdered by his one time friends and allies after the Revolution turned inward on itself.
@Adversary American Check out the Revolutions Podcast on the Mexican Revolution.
@@kevinsullivan3448
Yes, but he was also an international border-raider, which is why the U.S. Army was after him. He can be both. You can't lead a band of nomadic gunmen without being a good multi-tasker.
dude if you re going to say stuff like this mejor callate el osico animal
@Ikrani, well yes but, He was swindled.
Doroteo Arango a.k.a Pancho: Looks like I was swindled, well, it seems like a good day to invade a nation.
( It's a phrase that the United States uses a lot)
US:Well, it seems that the dictator who helped impose it now has anti-American policies, I think we were swindled, well, it seems like a good day to invade a nation with large oil reserves.
now I know why they're called spaghetti westerns, those were my favorite as a kid
As a Japanese, it's so hilarious that this American dude spent 10 minutes going "U GUYS STOOPID, REAL LIFE COWBOYS WERE NOTHING LIKE THAT, UR MISREPRESENTING THEM!!!". How do you think we feel about how Ninjas and Samurais are portrayed outside Japan.
People are just too sensitive
@@nope6908 💯
*Andy Farrant sings Wild Wild West in the background *
Kathy Aird hello there fellow denizen of oxboxford
@@nerdherder9340 Hello I was hoping another one of our people would be here
Kathy Aird *poor johnny looks more and more sad*
Actually you didn't really demythologize the west. While outliers are just that, the existence of outliers is still a fact, and the short period in history we call the wild west had plenty of very interesting, unique individuals and incidents.
It's rather like saying gangsters during prohibition are blown out of proportion because the majority of Americans weren't in the mob. They are going to always be the focus of most people when they look to that period, because they are some of the most flamboyant characters of the time.
Being more accurate about the demographics of who was in the west and demythologzing the west are really two separate topics and they don't have to be mutually exclusive. After all, Hollywood has been leaving people out of history across the board. When was the last time you saw a story centered around a black pirate, or saw a black Victorian in any hollywood film set in the victorian age in Europe?
Well focusing on black pirates would be weird simply because most pirate captains were former European privateers without a job because their weren't any wars. There were plenty of black pirates, blackbeards crew had almost 75% black pirates, but most of the well known pirates and their stories were white.
And blacks in the Victorian age were still quite rare. And racism is sadly a thing
Most Hollywood films aren't about actual pirates, but fictional ones. If I can name a black pirate (Black Caesar for example), then you can legitimately make a film or story around a black pirate. I mean seriously, how many great white hunters were roaming around darkest Africa to justify all the films and literature written with one as the protagonist? A lot of actual history seems "weird " to people simply because they've been raised on a completely false narrative for the majority of their life. You can't co-sign that and then criticize people for being historically ignorant.
We make stories about exceptions to the rule because they are exceptions, and I think a lot of exceptional individuals have been left out of film and literature that could revitalize a lot of these dead genres, because they could provide a new perspective.
Uhhhhhh Captain Philips had black pirates, thank you very much!
Don't give them more ideas
Ah the myth of the noble savage defending his Homeland strikes again
Thats what happened
I love hearing about the west, especially since I'm related to one of the most infamous people in Western history: John Peters Ringo, or "Dutch" as he was called (since the Ringos who came from Europe were from Holland and the Netherlands).
Thanks for doing this honest take on western history, it was well made.
John was Dutch???? I thought John was Marston??😂
@@arnas109 We just, need, MONEH
DUTCH PLAN DER LINDE
Hey, Blue, I’m personal friends with Matt Mercer and let him know you’re a fan.
Q: Why did the bowlegged cowboy get
fired?
A: Because he couldn't keep his calves together!
This helped me SO much with my manifest destiny homework. Thanks!
Zebulon Pike on his exhibition west said of Texas cowboy culture, "For this business I presume there is no nation in the world superior to the Spaniards of Texas."
probably cause it was originated in spain
then brought to mexico
then copied by Americans moving into mexico
Can you do the Philippines next? Also 1:23 that mustache is goals!
Bass Reeves is indeed the most badass dude, and that includes his dressing and facial hair
I second the motion.
the goat is here amen
Your Typical Pinoy MABUHAY ANG PILIPINAS!!!!!
Your Typical Pinoy HELL YEAH!
You want to know who you can thank for the harshness of the Indian Wars? That would be William Tecumseh Sherman. The very same William Tecumseh Sherman who decimated the Confederacy by burning crops, ripping up rail lines, and employing scorched Earth tactics to capture Atlanta and insure Lincoln's re-election. When Grant became President after the Civil War, Sherman became commanding general of the US army. He had studied the native Americans extensively, and had even expressed respect and admiration for them. He knew how important the buffalo were for them, and employed the same type of tactics he'd used during the Civil War. He organized huge hunting parties, posted outrageous bounties, and all to exterminate as many buffalo as humanly possible. I'd even go so far as to say that the sole reason that the US expanded so rapidly, and why they practically trampled over the Native Americans with such ease, was because of William Tecumseh Sherman.
He also shelled my home town.
Civil War hero, and demonic slayer of innocent buffalo. Humans are hilarious.
@@Carakav you're a human too prick
He was once quoted (supposedly) as saying, though I dunno if this is accurate or hearsay as saying: "The only good Indian is a dead Indian."
I agree with you. There so many misconceptions of the wild west. Thank you for this video.
I do enjoy your stuff btw ;)
*I WANNA BE A COWBOY BABY~~*
Fun fact that gun control back fired often. You dont get names like Lynchwood, and Tombstone for nothing.
Tombstone's name is a joke on the man who founded it. As they referred to his venture as his Tombstone, or so I just learned.
Engelrekt
That’s true about the name of tombstone but I believe Argus was merely pointing out was how the gun laws backfired. In tombstone there was one metric fuckton of shootings. The laws were for the most part unenforceable. You can’t lock up the entire town! Think about modern day Chicago or Detroit. Strictest gun laws in our republic with the highest shooting rate. Go figure
“called spaghetti westerns because they were made by italians in italy, yay stereotypes” you know sergio leone, the director of many spaghetti westerns coined the term “spaghetti western”