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Did Toyota Build A Better AU Falcon?.. ALMOST | Aurion ATX
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- čas přidán 3. 01. 2024
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Welcome to another Episode of Ross Reviews AU on this weeks Video we take a look at Toyotas Aussie Built Aurion AT-X.. A V6 Camry of sorts with over 200KW from factory & a 6 speed auto. this was Toyotas attempt to enter the Commodore & Falcon Market. They did well selling many Aurions but unfortunately never really matching the same soul as a commodore or falcon.. production finished in 2017 and we no longer make Aurions :(
Let us know what you thought of the Aurion Down Below!
Did Toyota Build A Better AU Falcon?.. ALMOST | Aurion ATX
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I've had an ATX for 12 years and I swear by it. In fact I'm selling it to get a Sportivo with just 72 Kms on it. In the corners, being front wheel drive, you brake before the turn, and accelerate in the turn. Genius.
I got Aurion ATX since the new 2013, 130,000 thousand on the clock. No single problem, perfect car, get me around anywhere. Even I thought to buy another car hard to find reliable car, it's like good old friend.
good reliable car
I think there a good car and under rated same as a mitso 380 because they are fwd. If your having fun sure a rwd is better but under most regular driving conditions it honestly doesnt matter.
I’ve owned a few 380s even the base model goes pretty hard for what it is will give a few stock turbos a run for there money
@@2jztheworld361, not wrong on that at all, New Zealand enjoyed the 380 Models just as much.
@@Barra.The.World. awesome daily drivers comfy good power ect
If he's going to review one of these he has to review the 380 as well. I had a 380 GT and loved it comfy to drive and put the foot down off it went.
@andrewk579 oh, for sure, he needs to review A Mit 380GT, but im hoping it's going to be one that's Supercharged or Turbocharged...!
People will say it's not a nice car and what not, but that actually weren't too bad if you put them next to other cars that were being produced at the time when Mitsubishi made the 380GT.
The 2GR-FE is no joke. I have a friend that has an Aurion with 615km on the clock and still climbing.
Good cars
Hired one of those not long after they came out for a trip to Western QLD … tried it out down a long straight…the needle was still climbing at 205KPH …
They have power for sure! If your brave enough to use it 🤣
Yes Ross this is the type of reviews we need random cars as it’s something different… Even do pov pack cars like the falcon or Holden it’s something different and that is what u need man keep up the good work
Glad you enjoyed it
Ive always thought Toyota would have absolutely killed it if they made a wagon model of these.
Also I agree, RWD is key here and manual would be a sick bonus, but also would be cool to adapt a hilux manual gearbox to the century / crown rear end that they would have pulled from the parts bin in Japan to make it in the first place.
No, the wagon was already dead in the water by 2007 when these came out . SUV was all the craze , territory was selling by the bucketload they could barely keep up with production. Kluger was lukewarm and nowhere near as good and sold moderately
The second generation XV50 2011-2017 was a bit quicker. It had the same engine but was a little bit lighter. The Aurions didn't ride or handle particularly well but was reliable if serviced every 10 000klms.
I've got a 2011 Touring. Got it at 13 500 klm, now at almost 150 000 klm and other than servicing, have only had to replace the alternator. Will hold onto it for a few more years as its difficult to find this combination of size, power and reliability.
That 3.5 litre 2GR-FE was used in a multitude of Toyota and Lexus vehicles and I believe is still used (albeit modified) in supercharged form in the current Lotus Emira.
Yeah, it was in the Hilux too, rwd ute.
It also had a nasty habit of grenading, Toyota Australia had to make do with the FE suffix engine which was for “Fuel Efficiency” variant for the TRD Aurion
@@ianhelyar6383 Nah..the Hilux was a 4.O litre V6, not the 3.5 V6.
yeah, I thought about that later. Still had 200kW though.@@victorpeirce4753
@@boss290t Genading? The 2GR-FE engine, properly maintained is quite reliable.
Some king lows and some 235s really helps handling too and they were around 150-250kg lighter than the Holden and Ford.
Yup you could settle them with some springs.. just wish RWD 🥲
I love these aurions. They're reliable, easy to maintain, and was quite powerful back in the day. I had a trd aurion and drove 220kms on it and it never missed a beat. It still drove like the day I bought it. I miss that car everyday.
I'm hearin' you. Wish I kept mine.
Easy to maintain? How long does it take you to change all six spark plugs?
Interesting review. They certainly are a very floaty car. Wife owns a similar Camry in a base model and it’s also very floaty, but a mostly reliable car (with over 300,000 Kms). Until at least the Ks rack up and then it starts throwing codes because you put a thicker oil in it to stop it burning. I don’t like front wheel drive one little bit. I like rear wheel drive way better as it’s better to handle. Thanks for the review.
@@kresnik_ss You didn’t read my comment correctly. Read it again slowly. Throwing codes and turning off traction control because you put a thicker oil in is not normal wear and tear.
@@petermanuel7128that isn't normal though. These engines have much tighter clearances, I'm only running 5w-40 and I'm about to pass 300,000km with no consumption. If your having issues you might have to clean the metal filters inside the vvti system, and service the pcv too. What code number was it?
Fast car slow transmission
But overall best bang for a buck if you’re looking for a cheap V6 sedan
Yup it’s that combination that really kills it’s performance
If by any chance, for future references maybe you could try testing out the newer 50 series Aurion models from 2012 upwards. It has much more features, a traction button, and such. The newer models are lighter and do go faster. I can do 0-100 in 6.5 seconds with my 2012 Sportivo model which comes with a more sporty stifter suspension making the handling not feel as floaty. With decent Michelin PILOT SPORT 4 tyres, it does make a huge difference to how the car drives. If you ever come to Sydney, I'll be happy to offer it for you to drive and review. 😄
I would like to try the last gen! I think it would be even better possibly
You need to review a aurion sportivo those came with tuned suspension compared to the standard aurions.
I’ll be looking for a sportivo maybe a later gen
i had a sportive zr6 and my dad has a atx, The difference is not really noticeable maybe %5 better at most
7.9sec on a 300k motor is pretty impressive. Toyota power 💪
Not terrible eh
When new, it should have run at least 0.5 seconds quicker.
@@JJ-wi2uwMore like a full second quicker.💯
He also mentioned that the traction control cut the power , probably could've gotten 7s without TC and good tyres
@@moijesuismoi99probably needs new ATF in the gearbox too. That will make it shift quicker.
Very smooth drive line with great reliability. Keep up the great vids .👍
Thanks, will do!
Super reliable. Bulletproof. Over engineered. Can run on the smell of an oily rag and 2OOkw from factory from a 3.5 is heaps better and faster than a base model falcon or Commodore and way more fuel efficient. If you run the Aurion on BP Ultimate 98RON it takes power up to 21Okw.💯
Good review on a cheap car Ross Reviews. I’d like to see you review a Stock Holden VF Commodore SV6 Ute please. Looking forward to the next video.
To Ross Reviews
From Jordan’s car reviews.
What I personally think really hinders these cars from being sportier is the tiny tires they put on these things. The SX6 only came with 215 wide tires, which were skinnier than the tires on the base model Commodores/Falcons (the XT also used 215s, the Omega used 225s), let alone the XR6/SV6. A lot of Japanese manufacturers tended to do this for some reason.
True I still think it’s the gear box and fwd as a combo since I’ve driven a lot of fun fwd cars before but this is a bit messy idk
Yeah the skinny pizza cutter wheels definitely didn't help it in the handling department.💯. You need 235s all round and some lowered King springs. My brother has the TRD Aurion and it's on coilovers and handles like a go kart.💯.
I drove a few of these for what they are pretty good from factory especially the power nicely made for a V6 but yes front wheel drive but if it were rear wheel drive I think the aurion would give the falcon and commodore a run for the money
I'm driving dad's Toyota Aurion 2009 Sportivo SX6 its done 236000km and still drives great once I take full ownership of this beast, I got plans for it.
Might upgrade;
Cams
Exhaust
Fuel Efficiency / power mods ,
Suspension
Wheels
Brakes
head unit
2012 Aurions are a lot quicker especially when you change out tyres to some bridgestones easily in the 6 seconds,, with the standard Michelins tyres it is very floaty due to soft side walls
I’m gonna try n find a new gen one
2017
@@RossReviewsau If you can mate, try the SX6 (sports with cloth trim) or ZR6 (sports with leather and all the gadgets).
There’s quite a few owners groups with enthusiasts, I’m sure they’ll supply you with each model!
@@RossReviewsau Ive got a 2017 Sportivo, and I'm only about 15 mins from where this location is :)
I myself sill own a 2008 Aurion Presera whihc my dad got brand new alongside a GWS204 Crown, 2015 Audi S6 and 2018 BMW 540i Touring (I live in Fiji, each car has been brought in from a different nation). The AUrion is my favourite car because it's not stress inducing when things are rough or complex. It just works, works well and being a high spec variant it's very nice
I know of a 2017 Kia Stinger that has close to 300,000 kms, and is running just fine, it would be great to do a review on that Ross. 😊
Traction control off with semi slick tyres on the front you will see these crack 6 seconds and 14.1 in the 1/4 - respectable for what it is especially in the day. I've seen IS350's that have the NA DI injector version of this engine nearly cracking 12s at Sydney dragway.
If you can get hold of one; I'd love to see a review of a Lexus LC500. They are criminally underappreciated in Australia and relatively few sold. Most who can afford one end up buying German; but the LC500 with it's NA 5 litre V8 (351 KW) will be a modern classic in 20 years. They also look great and have an awesome interior. A great GT car.
Solid review, I’ve owned an ATX and ZR6 and currently have a VE SV6 LFX.
Agree with the ATX being floaty. Great around the city, but can scare on a fast windy highway. ZR6 can be a little hard around town but solid when overtaking road trains.
Biggest killer is the gearbox. It’s got long gears and is slow to change - needing feathering to get the best out of it. I’d say at highway speeds it’s quicker than the SV6.
Service them properly and they’ll go for years. Alternators every 100 kays, otherwise pretty standard fare. Mine had 350k and 280 when written off.
very good points! im keen to test out the later gen ZR6
honestly the aurions after the facelift go pretty hard, i have a 2014 atx, chuck it into sport mode and it actually has some guts, i have surprised plenty of xr6's and sv6's in it
Great video Ross !
These cars are great at what they do as you were saying but i think if Toyota had of built the Chaser/Mark X type sedan here it would have been more of a contender to the Aussie sedans. Cheers✌️
Spot on.. they were very similar to the more performance based falcons n commodores.. this just needed to be RWD
Friend of mine had a BA turbo, traded it in on a new aurion (supercharged shitter). 2 year later when the shitters trade in value was what he owed he bought another turbo falcon. Just because the grass looks green on the other side doesn’t mean its not covered in dog shit.
I would never trade a turbo Barra for a TRD but I would have one as a daily
Cmon bro you should’ve asked me for my top of the range 2010 aurion presara😂. It’s in mint condition with so many more features looks way better, it’s been taken care of. It also has only 125k kms.
I’ve actually seen so many modded aurions that look very good and also tuned. They recently unlocked the ECU of it if you didn’t know.
Love the video bro, finally the Aurion getting some acknowledgment 😂❤.
Eh let me know your keen! Send me a message
Where exactly or where did you heard they unlocked the ECU? I'm keen to getting my tuned.
Id still take the mitsubishi 380 over a camry i think the 380 is under rated 😅
Bro has an Aurion, I prefer the 380. Aurion is quicker😅.
Awesome video Ross. I used to own a old v6 Camry 2002 loved that thing got written off my plan this year is to get my self just a white aurion like that and next year I'll be turbo my ba wagon so hopefully will be first turbo wagon review on channel
glad you enjoyed it
Love these standard battler reviews, please do a 380 next, or if you can.....a 380 TMR
No one reviews the 380. Most don't know they exist😅.
Great video and great car, I have to say I had one of these cars before and I think your example is lacking power especially in the low rpm when taking off. I had one and it could do around 6sec 0-100 on good ground. It was around 240km though.
I owned one of these for 6 months a couple of years ago and I liked the engine and gearbox. But it was so boring to drive and like you said, so floaty. If all you want is to get from A to B then it's a good car for that.
yeh A-B doesn't have the same connection as a commy or falcon
The Presara is Lux.
Except the water pump seal.
The camry and aurion were daily work cars . You keep your weekender in the shed . Car people usually have 2 cars . I like the grand master corollas with the same v6 as the aurion .
I love your videos Ross I used to watch your videos all the time when I was without a car.I was looking for something powerful like a V6 but I went for something more economical and bought a Toyota Yaris,it suits me as I havent got a family just single.
And no boyfriend too ?..😂
appreciate the support man
My Dad has a Sliver 2008 Toyota Aurion ATX and that has 379000 kms on its a great and a awesome reliable car it’s been the most reliable car that we have ever owned it’s been our Family car for 14 years since 2010 and it’s hardly ever broken down or even let us down except for when we lost power steering once when my mum owned it but besides from that it’s never hardly ever broken down and nothing mechanically has ever gone wrong with it for 8 years for 8 years not a single mechanical issue it just refuses to give up and it just keeps going and it gets us anywhere and everywhere without fuss or without anything going wrong on its done countless family trips up to Sydney which is 5-6 hour drive away from where we live in the bega valley and literally nothing can stop or get in the way of the Aurion that’s the beauty about Toyotas they just don’t stop and don’t die and they just keep going reliability on our Aurion is unbeatable the exterior of our Aurion the body is a bit rough a few dents and dings and there is some surface rust on it too and the Bumper is Screwed it’s hanging just by a few bolts and screws and it’s just very cracked and a messed up bumper it’s been in a few Accidents with some big kangaroos and it’s ran over a few wombats and sadly some other wildlife on the road so even though it’s had a hard tough life it’s still so reliable and it just refuses to give up and it just keeps driving and it’s still mechanically good just the exterior that’s the rough part.
It used to be originally my Mums car when my Dad bought it for her as a birthday present for her birthday because sae needed a family car for me and my sister. she owned it from 2010 to 2018 until my Mum wanted something smaller and bought a 2011 Mazda 3 Sedan and then she gave my Dad her Toyota Aurion and he still owns it to this day for him to get the Aurion he sadly had to sell his 2001 AU Falcon forte Sedan because mom was buying a new car and he was getting her old car so he didn’t need it anymore his AU Falcon was such a reliable and a great car he never had any issues with it never let him down from the 5 years he owned it from 2013 to 2018 but back to the Aurion it was a very safe and comfortable car for all of us including me and my sister it kept us safe and got us anywhere we wanted it was a great car and still is.
@@adventuresofaidan3541We get the point. All Aurion are very reliable and never die. You can thrash the shit out of them and they never die. The 2GRFE is over engineered and can run on the smell of an oily rag.💯
In 2011, I bought the same car, and it's still running strong at 450k kilo. Engine, gearbox, and trans have been fine all along. Only thing I hate is the suspension, always noisy despite replacing the shocks, mounts, bushes couple of times.
My friend owns the same car with around 650k kilo on it, he drives back and forth between Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
They are indestructible
Brand new,the newer one,2014 if you tromped it would momentarily wheelspin at 90 clicks.I like the look of this one better though.Good cars.14.1 out of the later one though.Have fun getting off the the line or around corners,but at 30g brand new ,who's arguing.ATX,yeah!.Au's were alright though,I remember about 90 in 1st gear,just depends on who you should divulge this with.
I gotta try the next gen version now.. sportivo also
Gives me hope a 380 will feature soon😅.
I've got an ATX myself, and got a 0-100 in the mid sixes, though granted with 170,000kms and on an 8 degree night.
Can't go wrong with a Toyota in some cases, my mate has an aurion almost exactly like that with over 500ks and it is still going.
Yeah they are a great car for daily and highway cruising
awesome
There so underrated
very for a solid car A-B
One friend of my wife has a Toyota Camry which last i know it had over 750 thou on the clock and still running ok it IT was a 2000 model
Love the Spanian accent impression in the opening scene. Nailed it.
Spanians a gee
I had a 2008 zr6 aurion smoothe as to drive super reliable but the front wheel drive is what let it down it just didn't feel right when cornering hard in such a big car so I sold it I sorta miss it now tho
I always look for value and reliability for our second daily car after owning two mitsubishi 380s both had over 350000ks when I sold them bought with under 100000ks.
Lost $4200 on the first one $3600 on the second, no problems just normal services.
We have just moved from Brisbane to Perth and bought a 2011 Aurion ATX with 48000ks full Toyota service history and immaculate $12400.
Like your reviews but i would not use and poorly maintained 300000k one as a reference as to what the car was like new.
Hot air conditions and a full tank also don't help get the best 0-100 time but it is a 300k car.
not bad considering
Looking at the rear lights, and lack of rear spoiler, I guess this is a prefacelift. With the 2009 facelift, the made the ESC and EBD standard, so its safer and can go around bends/corners faster. But still not a confident handler like a Falcons
For those who doesn't understand about what is happening in this video. Let me explain this to you to make it clear
...see more
nice lol
i paid 19k for a 2016 atx in 2018 best buy still own it
They put those engines in the Rav4. That would be a fun review!
I think the Tamago / Estima MPV had these too
Need green Sportivo ZR6 with the hectic wing 👍
I’m keen to try a sportivo next
You definitely have to do a Pedal Dance to turn off the Traction Control.
Ros , you want to drive a volvo 850 R
Oh mate shoot me a message would love to see one of them wagons!
white goods on wheels love it
My aurion got 600k km and still run smooth best Toyota car
They just keep going eh
I am interested with the opion of the followers. I have been using Dubbin as my interior replenish cream. I feel it's way better than the super cheap auto stuff. Let me know.
I used to do 200km jumps in my old one 😂. They are rally cars
What is a 200km jump? A non-stop drive for 200km ?
they are durable
Ours has 407 ks great everyday car
They go forever 👏
can you do more toyota aurion videos :)
Will try
Pity it didn't get the Toyota Crowns rear wheel drive tailshaft a differential to make this more like the aussie cars we love.
Ikr 🥲
I have an aurion and a xr6 and i love my aurion to death 😂 my dream is to have the TRD one day hopefully if they ever go down on price
They are so fucking reliable its insane mine had its Ks wound back when I purchased it but it still goes crazy with no signs of giving up and its somewhere over 380ks
One thing tho, i absolutely hate working on them changing something as small as an alternator or spark plugs is fucking unnecessary complicated and challenging
Pretty much a Camry in my eyes, and this one is a bit of a nugget... Maybe a suspension refresh will help it feel less floaty but it's FWD V6 so the dynamics will never be as good as a Commodore or a Falcon...
Bro u can turn the traction control off but it requires you to use ya pedals
1:21 that’s my dads car as he has the very last Toyota aurion made.
Not being modified is a bonus😅.
Could I get your opinion? I’m looking at first cars and cant decide between a ZB commodore or a VE. The VE has more mods and is built in oz and is cheaper (all the good stuff :), but the ZB is more modern, economical and has modern safety features (or more modern safety features at least. 2018 was 6 years ago!) What should I be on the look out for?
Ve Commodores are ugly & poorly designed.
@johncameron6864 I like them. The series 1 omega looks best in my opinion. Beside the timing chain they are pretty reliable I hear. Plus if they do go, parts are cheap and I have a petrolhead grandad happy to fix it (he’s a holden guy). But looks aside, what would you suggest?
Get the VE. The ZB wasn't a traditional Australian Commodore. If you can stretch your budget a little, get a VF with the LSX motor. Far more reliable than the VE V6.
What's your budget? These cars are in two very different price brackets...
@@ausernameidkI hope you have a tech2 scan tool, because those cars need it for ecu diagnostics. Can't do much without a scan tool these days.
If only they were RWD or AWD. That is their only down fall! I own a 2013 3.5L Aurion daily driver and it hauls ass.
Agreed
If you’re in QLD I gotta Mark X if you wanna review
shoot me a email or socials DM
They can't tow & have a large turning circle due to the FWD.
I respect the engine but the packaging restricted the vehicles potential.
A FWD can't compare to a RWD Falcon & Commo Johnny so that was the death of it right there & it's so floaty did you catch any flatties 🎣😆 brah,but apart from that they're reliable & will get you to your destination no problem,anyway top review as usual champ.
Of course they did. The others are no longer on the menu.
such a shame these things were front wheel drive
i always thought the body shape would make a great modern lead sled
Aurion beat ba bf falcon and anything below ba and bf including vy vx ve commys the only car that keeps up is the ve sv6 I owned a standard aurion I left any commy and falcon in it at the lights like they were standing still
Cool looking car but fwd
Need to get the traction controll off and it will be faster than the 195 kw v6 commodore and the 190 kw falcon at the time these where new the arion was faster , its the fwd it has much less drive line power losses than rwd and there around 150 kg lighter , i had a vz sv6 with a 190 kw v6 6 speed manual , had a drag off the lights against one off these , got off the mark faster and was infront buy half a car but the aurion did catch and get just infront buy the end of 2nd gear 100 kph and yes smashed it into 2nd gear like i stole it , but id much rather a facon or commodore in the xr6 or sv6 they handle much better look much better and i would get a 210 kw sv6 to take care off the performace gap
I mean, now you have to review a Mitsubishi Magna or 380.
Wtf, I have a toyota aurion prodigy, & it runs 6-6.5 second 0-100 without sports mode
i highly doubt it.. they are fast on a roll tho
Peice off fwd 💩 my grandparents owned a TRD back in the day
pop always said it was the most reliable car ever built if you drove it backwards LMAO
THANK FARK THEY MOVED UP IN THE WORLD & now drive a LEXUS LC500 convertible that thing is a weapon with nanna behind the wheel
Your grandparents have taste 😂
@@MartinJones123 yeah pop does owns 8 Holden's but nan's not allowed to touch them lol
@@dazza8389 Do they have oil money or something?? 🤣
@@MartinJones123 how'd you know he was a engineering specialist Penrite oil's
@@dazza8389 What's his name? I reckon you're trolling
Mine got to 400,000 kilometers of relentless floggings and never missed a beat! Only servicing, a set of drive shafts and that's it.
They are built different
Oh what a feeling taxi Toyota thay we’re good for that 🚕Vz Glenn 👍🏎
🚕
@@RossReviewsau thay we’re a good car that’s why there was as many Toyota taxis as ford and Holden Vz Glenn
In QLD the Cops had heaps of Aurions in their fleet... thousands of them.
I think the poor looks of the AU are grossly overstated. It looks a lot like a similar era Camry, so much so that I've sometimes thought, here comes an AU, only to realise when it gets closer, it's a Camry. I never heard anyone bag the Camry for its looks, but the Falcon cops it all the time! Perhaps it's because Falcons inspire passion, which is a word no-one uses for Camrys?
I don’t know what Camry you are referring to that looks like an AU. Maybe you’ve confused it for the Toyota Avalon. The facelift of the Avalon looked like a comedic stab at the AU falcon. The contemporary Camry for the AU production years looked like a boxcar and had no style whatsoever , the complete anti-thesis of the curvy bloated AU.
you might be right. After I identified it as a Toyota, I lost interest...@@boss290t
7:56 8km per 100 litres you say?
Claimed
Lovely solid, quick cars but more understeery than the four pot. Much better quality than ford, holden.
If driven normally
Cant compare front wheel drives to rear wheel drives
True
The 2Gr can limmi bash
Solid engine
300 thou plus klms, its going to feel floaty etc, the suspension would be shagged.
*39O,OOOkms. !!! Nearly 4OO,OOOkms !! Of course it will be boaty and floaty if it's still standard springs and shocks which would be 💯. My brother has a TRD Aurion on coilovers and handles like a go kart.💯*
If they made them RWD they'd be sought after now.
I reckon
From a Ferrari to an Aurion..
🤣 I don’t discriminate
Amazing 🧹
cheers
190,000 miles is not that much I feel like
*It's getting up there, but it's nothing for an Aurion with a 2GRFE motor. Bulletproof. Reliable. Fuel efficient. Over engineered. Never let you down. Always get to your destination. Trouble free motoring.💯*
I own a ve commodore. I’ve never found Toyotas appealing, even though they are more reliable, they just seem bland and as car enthusiast I wouldn’t enjoy owning one as much as a ford or holden
100% they are vanilla AF
Nissan Maxima 200kw
👀
Lol you a funny guy
Sorry mate, front wheel drive kills it. Piece of crap…. Just like the Magna/380
It definitely hurts it.. I’ve been in a lot of fun fwds tho.. they can be done well but incredibly challenging
nowhere near as good as a falcon 😂
If it was RWD they would be close
*They are better than a NA base model falcon or Commodore. They are heaps quicker, use way less fuel, way more reliable and sound soo much better than a NA 6 cylinder falcon or Commodore if they both have aftermarket exhaust and extractors. Na falcons and Commodores with aftermarket exhaust sounds like a dying cow, where a 3.5 V6 with aftermarket exhaust sounds really good for a V6. They sound a lot sportier and a lot more refined because the 2GRFE is a way better engine.💯 Na falcon and Commodore owners are in denial and just can't accept the fact they are wrong.💯*