Why Kristin Tattar Is The GOAT... Not Paige...
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- čas přidán 14. 12. 2023
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The T in GOAT is the missing factor. Time. Kristen has to keep performing over time. But yeah, she’s the best right now.
If Kristen dominates Paige in pretty much every tournament that they compete against together, it's hard to argue that Paige is greater. Maybe my logic is flawed, but the term great seems pretty straight forward. Who has proven to be the better player? In almost every scenario when they've been stacked up against each other, it's Kristen. Seeing her complete dominance in the FPO field currently, it's hard to believe she wouldn't have held that dominance during the era of Paige as well. The general performance of FPO players hasn't gotten worse since Paige's time in the sun, so you'd have to assume that the current Kristen is better than any previous version of Paige.
Paige is on the tail end of her career, Kristin is relatively new. Paige’s dominance is what inspired women today to become even more competitive, just like Julianna Korver was for Paige before her. Each great of each generation feeds and inspires the next round of great players. Paige’s era of dominance was the 2010’s, and there really wasn’t anyone doing it better during that time.
Totally true and I agree completely. I just think that term GOAT belongs to the historically best player of the sport (this is just my opinion of course) so as the sport progresses newer players will take the title as they become more advanced than their predecessors. It should never detract from the prestige of a player and the value they added to the sport in the past, but those accomplishments don’t make them a more skilled athlete than incredibly gifted and willful players who follow them.
While I agree that KT is the best FPO player there's been so far, I think you can't call someone a GOAT who's been on tour for just 3 years. In time she'll get there, but she needs to keep performing longer to get that title.
You said that only time KT was shaken up was Champions Cup, but the final round of European Championships this summer was pure apocalypse. I don't want to hold one round against anyone, but it was jarring for someone in the GOAT conversation.
So best at the moment KT, GOAT for the time being PP, imho.
Yeah you can. She’s not just putting up “wow that’s crazy she’s cashing every event and only been on tour for 3 years” numbers. She won back to back world titles, every major, and would have won throw pink if Paige/missy posse wouldn’t have had their hand in it 😂 she’s also reached ratings no female has ever seen while doing it.
Also Kristen is the highest rated! Regardless of how one feels about the rating system, it's a metric to think about.
I fully agree with the points made. The bar Kristin is setting in terms of character and work ethic is something we havent seen before!
Paige built a longer tenure of dominance than Kristen did, though she is now a better player than Paige. The tide didn't really start turning until 2021, when Kristen started to dominate more often. Also Paige losing that 6th world title on the final hole that year broke her a little bit. She was vocal about losing her drive in 2022 and it showed. April of that year was the last time she placed higher than Kristen. If Paige gets the drive back, and has fully recovered, she'll be a threat again. Right now KT is that threat.
Can we get a list of essential discs everyone should at least try? Like the Pure, the Buzzz, the Teebird, the Zone? Like discs that aren't necessarily right for every player, but have a good chance of being the right one for the individual to throw and give a lot of insight on what the player needs/wants in terms of disc stability and depth of the disc? 🤔
Kristin is on track to be, but isn’t it too early man? Paige has had a legendary career.
GOAT is always a challenging term to use but i think the argumentation was on point
Paiges best scores are being smashed, it is clear she is and was a less impressive player compared to Kristin.
@@MegaLaban12345 I don’t know, during her peak she was winning everything. I think 2015 maybe it was all Paul on MPO and Paige on FPO for nearly every tournament. For her time, she was dominant, just like Paul, just like Climo. I think Kristin can take that crown, but there’s a lot of recency bias after this year I think because Kristin’s 2023 season was so special.
Kristin is scoring better than paige ever did, but the competition is better. Kristin is on a higher level than Paige has ever been.
I think Kristin will totally be there, but you’re absolutely right. GOAT isn’t about a dominant season or couple of seasons - it’s a career of dominance.
Kristin is my favorite FPO player for many reasons. Give her another 5-6 seasons at her current level and nobody would begin to argue she isn’t the GOAT. She is clearly the best right now. Without time, it is like saying Will Schusterick is the GOAT over Climo or McBeth.
Will Shusterick never won worlds, let alone back to back 😂
I needed some apollo content today. Another great video man. Keep it up!
You are spot on with your assessment of Paige's game. Not consistent and many times breaks under the pressure
With the caveat that I think almost all GOAT debates are silly and unnecessary, I don't think we've seen anybody at Kristin's level. Paige has more titles-tied with JK and Elaine King-but Kristin has had about a year-and-a-half straight of nobody believing she can lose against by far the strongest FPO fields ever. If there's any real knock against Kristin, it's that she doesn't seem to be able to do it for a full season. She had some drop-off late this season, and possibly a minor injury, and lost from winning positions. When she's on, though, her style of domination is so different. She doesn't have to do wild things every hole to score. She just throws great shots, makes putts, and grinds you into the dirt with consistency. That's the top athlete way.
David,
You are generally right. Kristin has consistant accuracy resulting from her skill proficiency and mental toughness. BUT, to be considered the best one has to perform at this level for a substantial amount if time. Two years is not enough. If for some strange reason Kristin’s game fell apart next season, you could no longer consider her as the greatest. She would not have passed the test of time. And the the discussion around her would always be “what if” or “she could have.” Paige, on the other hand, while not as consistant as Kristin, has played at an overall high level for a long time, higher than any player before her.
With that said, it seems that Kristin will, barring disaster, become the GOAT after playing well for a few more years. She has the all around skills and extraordinary mental game only seen in two other players: Ken Climo and Paul McBeth, both of whom exhibited these qualities for many years. I don’t think any FPO player has played at this level before, even Paige. But Tattar must pass the test of longevity, so she won’t just be considered a star that went super nova and quickly burnt out. Time will tell, soon enough.
I like and agree with most of your takes, I have a hard time with discounting or even minimizing PP and KC's elevation and pure dominance of the sport, there would not be a PM or KT if their wasn't a PP and KC who began the elevation of the sport, and you don't mention the fact that there wasn't much coverage of KC and PP dominating the way there is now with all the social platforms, DGN, Etc. the growth advantage goes to PM and KT because of all the media coverage, yes KT and PM are amazing and they have brought so much to the sport, KT is a Olympic Athlete who switched her training from cross country skiing to DG, still a Olympic athlete, PM has help to legitimize DG as a professional athletic sport that started with KC, PM and KT have continued the relay forward... all are equally important...
I would argue that Ken Climo did a lot more for the sport than he's getting credit for here. The problem is things weren't documented as well and as easily accessible as it is today. You watch some of the old footage and KC looked like a pro golfer with his polo tucked in and a classy Innova hat. All while others were wearing basketball shorts and a t-shirt. I'm a big Paul fan too, but I think there's some recency bias in some of these opinions. P.S. I'd say we're about the same age. So, there's no generational Jordan vs. LeBron thing going on here.
Scott Stokley often refers to when he played as “the Wild West Days,” because everything was looser back then. There was no internet for easy information and communication. Also, players were not well supported by disc manufactuers. They mostly had other jobs. Climo had to win 7 World titles before Innova offered him a signature disc. Ken never made anything near what Paul makes, so it would have been impossible for Ken to grow the sport the way Paul does. There situations were not the same.
I agree with your points, but I also think it may be too early in Kristen’s career to tell. In terms of composure and demeanor, though, I think Kristen is leagues ahead of Paige.
Kristen also knows what a woman is. Bonus points for thst
Reasonable arguments.
fyi elaine king has 5 world titles also
Forgot about Elaine! Thank you!
Kristin is absolutely MILES ahead of Paige as far as skill level.
The competition wasn't what it was now when Paige won her 5.
Kristin has some gals that can really yeet chomping @ her heels every week, and she still dominates.
Got to add an edit to 7:04. 😂
Kristin needs more time for that.
Id second that
KT wouldn't be where she is today without Paige's achievements...just as Paige wouldn't have gotten there wuthout JK doing her thing before Paige. GOAT status is currently Juliana Korver, Elaine King, and Paige...although I'd give a slight edge to Paige as her career has done much more to advance not only dusc golf in general, but women's disc golf. KT isnt there yet...but she definitely owns the greatest season in disc golf history...by a man or a woman
BTW...I threw that Grand Slam Explorer yesterday and it immediately kicked my crave out of the bag! A hyzer flip to dead straight machine!
B2B world championship wins and grand slam is something that Paige has never done. Sure Paige has more worlds wins but its just a matter of time when Kristin has 5 or more
Elaine king also has five worls titles, preceeding JK.
tattar is the best player in disc golf period, at least the last 2 years.
Kristen was on track to be a gold medalist. Paige is a dirty hippie 😅
Paige is more like a Ricky or a Nate Doss at this point. Kristin is definitely the Serena Williams or Katie Ledecky
Lmao not yet buddy maybe in the end but no way you can says sue the goat atm over a 5 time world champ