The REAL Reason Dumbledore Borrowed the Cloak of Invisibility - Harry Potter Theory
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- čas přidán 10. 11. 2023
- Welcome to Harry Potter Theory. Today we’re going to be discussing Dumbledore, the Potter’s, and the fabled Invisibility Cloak. Specifically, we’re going to be taking a look at the events of the time period surrounding the Potter’s murder, and why on earth Dumbledore chose to ‘borrow’ an item of such great protection when the Potter family’s lives were in imminent danger. If the cloak is so powerful that even death can't find you, wouldn't it be more useful in the hands of people who are hiding from the most powerful dark wizard to have ever lived?
Let’s dive in.
The Invisibility Cloak is a powerful magical artefact that once belonged to Ignotus Peverell- the youngest brother from the ‘tale of three brothers’- a story outlining the origin of each Deathly Hallow.
The plot surrounds the three wizard brothers and their ability to cheat death for a short period of time. After conquering death, a personification of death, under the guise of congratulating them, awards them with 3 gifts: The elder wand, the resurrection stone, and the invisibility cloak. Long story short, each brother chose one of the gifts that death had presented them. Ignotus (the youngest) chose the invisibility cloak.
All 3 of these objects are massively instrumental in the Harry Potter story- and while the elder wand is a huge plot driver, the invisibility cloak definitely ended up being the most useful hallow for Harry- which is interesting, because it was indirectly handed down to him by his father. After James’s death, it was kept safe until Harry was old enough to appreciate it, at which point Dumbledore anonymously gifted the cloak to Harry in the Philosopher’s Stone.
But..Why did Dumbledore have this Potter family artifact?
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I think Dumbledore had no idea peter pettigrew was the traitor and would betray the Potters, nor when he would do so. He borough the cloak to learn more about it's abilities. the fedelius charm was adequate protection for the Potters had there not been a traitor. I'm sure he intended to return it but after the attack on the Potters he protected the artifact until he could bequeath it to Harry.
Dumbles apologist sycophant ^ ..... Simplest answer is JK wanted the potters dead. BUT there is no excuse possible with Dumbles keeping the cloak from James when it could have been helpful. Per Book = Lily's letter to Sirius at least 3 months prior to being killed she mentions James starting to get upset that Dumbles refuses to return the cloak and had "borrowed" it for quite a long time as well as being told things by gellert's great aunt Bagshot refering to Albus lust for the deathly hollows and being grindelwald's lover in his youth.
He knew Voldemort was smart. He would find a way to get past the fidelius charm eventually. And that's something Dumbledore knew for sure. Maybe he didn't know how, but does that matter that much?
@@NoneofyourBusiness-iv6pi but at the end of the day if Moody can see through it with his eye what is there to say it would have saved any of them from Voldemort? Also unless there is another definition for "sycophant" I'm not sure you understand what it means.
The cloak is useless against magic and Voldemort would've found the Potters anyways. James knew there was little chance of beating Voldemort if they were found and that he had a high chance of dying. In that case, Voldemort would've been very interested in the cloak. Then Voldemort would've had a Hallow. I believe James gave it to Dumbledore for safe keeping if he died. Dumbledore gave it to Harry once he was old enough, as it was an old family heirloom.
@@TheLastCrow5150 so you are going to gloss over Lily's letter to Sirius written around 3 months prior to her death where she flat out states James very frustrated with dumbledore refusing to give back his cloak after having for quite some time............Even if it would have been useless against voldy. It was James POTTER'S cloak not dumbles
I think, if you ever desired the hallows-- as Dumbledore did-- they would always call to you and tempt you to do irrational things, just to have them. Especially if you actually saw one: something similar to the situation between Ron and the locket Horcrux.
I'm sorry, but from 5:41 ALL the words I'm hearing are "Harry Potter, Lord Voldemort, Invisibility Cloak, Deathly Hallows and Dumbledore."
Part of this may be that you tend to set your volume VERY low and partly as if you are "padding" a potentially-exceptional work with third-grade amounts of "and then THIS happened."
No offense intended as I'm a writer myself and I would want to know just how GREAT it could possibly be
Dumbledore had all three Hallows in his possession...the Elder Wand was buried with him and he gave Harry both the Cloak and the Resurrection Stone.
"My preciousssss!"
Most likely he took it to keep James or Lilly from leaving the safety of the house, that's what I always figured but I think he had it right from the beginning maybe James left once and just wanting to get out of the house and Dumbledore found out and asked him for it.
The theory that Dumbledore borrowed the cloak to leave Potters more exposed doesn't make sense. Not because Dumbledore couldn't do evil things - he definetely could and would if neccessary. But he was the only one in Order of the Phoenix, who knew about the prophecy. If he really wanted to leave Potters more vulnerable and exposed so the prophecy comes true, he wouldn't even tell them that they're targeted by Voldemort and wouldn't advice them to go into hiding. They only did it, because he warned them.
Dumbledore has never done anything evil
@@joshsims9642That’s just not true now, is it?
@@theblackprotagonist5936 what
@@joshsims9642 Depens on your definition of evil. Among other things:
- he left Harry with the Dursleys even after he knew how badly they abused and neglected him
- approved the detention in the Forbidden Forest, despite how dangerous it was and despite knowing that something dark is happening there
- hired Lockhart while being well aware that he's a fraud and isn't qualified to teach. And not only Lockhart - there were also other teachers hired by him, who should never be teachers in the first place, for example Trelawney, Hagrid or Snape
- didn't close the school when the Chamber of Secrets was open, putting lives of the students at risk (he was at Hogwarts when the chamber was opened previously and Myrtle died, so he knew the danger)
- lied, manipulated and purposedly kept relevant information hidden very often - like when using Harry to bait Slughorn into accepting job as a teacher. Or hiding the fact that Harry has to die in order to defeat Voldemort. Or forcing Snape to kill him, so Draco can be saved
Yes, all those things had a purpose and were often justified, but it doesn't change a fact that they were evil.
And that's not even including all the bad things he did in his youth.
@@alam5055 that is your opinion that that is evil
Dumbledore admitted that he failed to resist the temptation of the deathly hallow, a.k.a. authority, while he was young, so he outcast himself at Hogwarz(where he did quite good), to learn humble and deal with the guilt of his sister's death.
After he gave up so many year, stop trying to find the hallow, and some of the day, it just pop out right under his nose, and this time he still can not resist it's temptation, I mean after he lost so many thing, his parent, his sister, and his younger brother's trust, how could he let it go? but this time is not for thirst of authority, but seek of internal peace.
And he gave it back to Harry at volume one. The fact that he put on the ring say it all.
You just said James had shown Dumbledore the cloak mere days before he went into hiding. Of course the cloak attracted Dumbledore. And he probably did ask to borrow it out of curiosity and fascination for the Hallows. James himself may have readily said yes, himself not thinking whether it could protect his family or not. I think it was as much James's inadvertent gestures as Dumbledore's.
Indeed, Dumbledore made some egregious mistakes: making a blood pact, borrowing the cloak, not telling Harry the whole story of him and Voldemort, and maybe a few more of canon.
Personally, I don't think the cloak would have helped a whole lot. It would not have kept Harry quiet. It would not have kept Voldemort from doing any magic on them. Indeed, all one needs is to rain down, say, a bag of flour on them to expose them.
However, it also boils down to whether Voldemort would have bothered to learn about the invisibility cloak and resurrection stone. Dumbledore thinks he didn't because he might not have turned it into a horcrux. But maybe that didn't mean anything to Tom.
And Voldemort could have surmised that such a talented witch and wizard might be able to use the disillusionment charm, and the cloak could protect Harry. But they could disillusion Harry, too, as Madeye did.
Still, even without the cloak, Voldemort would know the Potters would have to be in the house. All he had to do was stay at the door and cast a revelio spell, and they would be there. Or even use the thoroughly muggle-style gesture of throwing powder of some sort everywhere.
If they disapparated after they were revealed, I think Voldemort could have held on to them like Yaxley did with Hermione at the Ministry to Grimmauld Place travel.
(BTW: did you catch that Grimmauld Place was a "grim old place?")
Also, whose to say he never picked up Sectumsempra from Snape? Just cast that wildly around and he'd likely find the Potters quickly enough. Plus, there is at least one known magical artifact that can see through the Invisibility Cloak and any number of others that might, at the very least, reveal the location, if not the identity, of concealed persons or objects.
He may have borrowed it to deny James access to it with the thought that it would keep him at home and therefore safer.
I like your theory best.
Or he could have been making certain James would be home when V paid them a visit.
Jk Rowling’s creative ability to create character names is so underrated. Each name she created sounds so grounded yet whimsical 😌
I truly couldn't agree more with you. They all sounded so good and you can tell she truly took her time creating the names and everything.
Cho Chang
@@MugShotDogGrooming I think some are based of names of tomb stones in Edinburgh, Scotland
Yeah e.g. the asian Girl Cho Chang, very creative Name.
When my kids were in 4th and 1st grades, their teachers’ names sounded like something straight out of Hogwarts.
Mrs. Podrat (Magical Creatures)
Mrs. Unthank. (Umbridge’s cousin?)
Mrs. Wiseheart (Muggle Studies?)
Mr. Poohak
I feel that the more likely option is they didn't want it to fall in enemy hands if they knew they where after them
Another idea is possibly Dumbledore figured the prophecy would come to pass regardless of what protection the Potter's had. So he may have taken the cloak to keep a powerful weapon out of Voldemort's hands, which also hides any proof of the hallows from Voldemort.
I don’t think there has to be any weird reason for wanting to study the cloak. They mention other invisibility cloaks in the books but they are all just substandard. The invisibility spell wears off over time and they aren’t always perfectly invisible to start with anyways. An artifact that can retain that magic over such a long time is at least a curiosity if nothing else. But what if dumbledore had cracked it and they could make more?
It would not have saved them because they weren’t expecting to be betrayed and for Voldemort to find them.
A Dumbledore already had the wand and kept it safe from Voldie. He wanted the same of the cloak. Not to make the Potters more vulnerable. The stone was too much of a wild card and he hadn't yet identified where it was. Ultimately he was able to accomplish his childhood dream. Reuniting the Hallows. For a period of time, he knew where each was and was able to "control" then to some extent.
I think Dumbledore borrowed the cloak because he thought James might try to use it to leave his house, so he wanted to protect him by getting the only item that could help him leave unnoticed I think he forgot that there was a traitor in the order and that the cloak could help him survive Voldemort’s attack.
He was safe from the traitor too because Voldemort would want to do the attack himself after the prophecy, and the traitor was magically unable to tell him about James's whereabouts unless he were Secret Keeper, and one who was certainly not the traitor was Sirius Black, who was the Secret Keeper.
As far as Dumbledore knew.
That’s the reason I thought he did it for borrowing it also cause he knew James well enough to know he wouldn’t want to be cooped up in their house.
Sorry, hard disagree with this one. A lot of folks fall into the trap of thinking that Dumbledore was nigh-infallible and omniscient, and that if something happened, then obviously he knew about it and planned it. If I've understood the timings correctly, the Potters had been in hiding for 15 months by that time. Nobody ever mentions if the Longbottoms were in the same kind of hiding as the Potters, but we can probably assume they were (one wonders who their secret keeper was). Dumbledore had no reason to suspect that Voldemort would chose that week to actually attack. As far as he knew, the Potters' Fidelius charm was still secure, when in actuality, Pettigrew had actually broken it months before.
I agree that the theory is a stretch and Dumbledore did not have everything planed out, but this "Dumbledore had no reason to suspect that Voldemort would chose that week to actually attack" is a bit wrong.
Dumbledore did not have the cloak for a week, even though he said to Harry that James showed it to him "just a few days prior" of his death, (which is Oct 31st).
He had it for maybe 3 months at least.
When H+R+H find a letter from Lily to Sirius, she thanks him for the present for Harry's birthday (that is July 31st) and mentions that "James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries not to show it but I can tell -- also, Dumbledore's still got his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions".
The letter seems to be written shortly after Harry's b-day, and Dumbledore apparently had the cloak already for some time...
But anyway, Dumbledore was the only one who knew the prophecy, if he wanted Lily and James dead, why would he tell them to go hiding in the first place?
@@panda4247 thanks for the correction on timing. I'd only remembered the "few days" portion
Yeah, that "Neville would have been Harry" thing doesn't get brought up much
id love to pick yyour mind on theories, but to burst the one about the longbottoms were actively looking for them, and was caught while looking for voldemorte and tortured on the grounds of they thought he was onto voldemortes trail (obviously not knowing where he was) thus leading the torture to leave them with their minds mostly destroyed
This theory is a stretch to put it nicely. For him to have that end goal, he would have had to know that Harry would have survived that attack but worse, he would not only have to know Voldemort had horcruxes but that Harry himself would become one.
exactly.. and as we see in The Half-blood Prince, Dumbledore never suspected the possibility of Horcruxes until much later, and was only sure of it after Harry recovered the memory from professor Slughorn.. sure, we can argue about his wisdom and how even he says most of his guesses ended up being correct, but in this instance, even if we stretch A LOT he only even suspected anything about Horcruxes years after the Potters were already dead
@@JiruPadovani All correct.
I assumed Dumbledore had it so James couldn't do anything reckless and sneak out from the protection of the charm
This makes sense to me. James shows Dumbledore the cloak and says something like, "and if we do need to go out I can use this." Dumbledore replies with something like, "that might work, but let me study it first to make sure that moldy warts can't see through it." In reality Dumbledore was removing the temptation from James.
Good answer...
Love the channel. You’re a great narrator, it’s always fun to listen to more potter info
Cheers!
@HarryPotterTheory I like your channel but I have to disagree with this one Dumbledore is my favorite character
I've always wandered about the cloak deathly hallow. It is said to be so powerful that death cannot find you, my question is do you think it could repel or absorb avada Kadabra. Let's hear some speculation.
Underrated comment
We have seen it repelling some spells... I think it can
@@red-fq8zf even deeper down the rabbit hole....maybe avada Kadavra was originally made to recharge the deathly hollows but then they figured out it kills real gud too.
Another theory might be that dumbeldore borrowed the cloak because he wanted to prevent james from sneaking out. Dumbeldore knew james and his rule breaking behaviour at school. So he may have borrowed it to protect him. Lily mentioned this in her letter to serius about james feeling frustrated being locked up and can’t get out because he didn’t have the cloak
Maybe Dumbledore borrowed the cloak, knowing that there was a chance of the Potter family being killed and wanted to keep a deathly hallow out of Voldy's hands.
I don't think Voldemort would wear such thing. Though it is a deathly hallow, it isn't interesting to him, since it's useful to avoid fights
@@micaelviniciusliraprado4147yea he would. It’s said whoever wields all 3. Clock wand and stone would be ALL POWERFUL. So I’d wager he would.
for short context, Albus took the invisibility cloak to study it as he believed it was the real cloak of invisibility. (one of the deathly hallows)
Not sure if anyone else has already suggested it, but is it not also possible that Dumbledore knew that there was a possibility that the Fidelius Charm could fail in some way? With this knowledge and the realization that the cloak is a Deathly Hallow, Dumbledore may have wanted to prevent the cloak from ending up in Voldemort’s hands. So he may have asked to borrow it as a guise for wanting to ensure it’s safe-keeping.
Dumbledore borrowed the invisibility cloak possibly to go undetected into the enemy camp to see what they had planned or whether weaknesses is I need number of good reasons that have no evil inclinations in it and certainly wouldn't have taken it or left a Potters exposed if he thought they were in danger that very night. He would have stayed with them and protected James, Lily and Harry Potter.
These vids are fantastic. I always enjoy them.
Glad you like them!
I think that maybe Dumbledore didn't want the cloak to go missing. Or get taken
I think that Dumbledore ultimately knows that the prophecy probably cannot be changed and the Potters are doomed nonetheless. As a precaution, Dumbledore 'borrows' the cloak to keep it safe, since Voldemort would surely take it if the opportunity arises, thus maintaining the original line of succession.
Would the cloak have worked on Voldemort? There is a passage where Dumbledore seems to see through the cloak to adress those beneath it. Perhaps he thought Voldemort would be able to see though it as well.
I don"t think Dumbledore or Mouldywart could see through the cloak, but let's not forget that both were Legilimens of the highest order. They could probably sense and read the thoughts of the person wearing it, without needing to see them.
@@cherryb893 Do a Legilimens know where the source of the thought is placed?
It is also important to consider the eventuality that Dumbledore asked for the cloak just to avoid that it could fall in the hands of Voldemort himself. If this happened, he then could have started is research of all the others deadly hallows, bringing him in a new awareness of the ring horcrux, with the only wand left.
Probably, he could not use the resurrection stone (because, I think, it only works to communicate with the beloved ones, and Voldemort never loved), but we don't know what could happen if he "get in contact" with his last family members (like the uncle or the grandfather), granting him new and unexplored form of power behind everyone knowledge
My theory is like this, dumbeldore wanted the cloak because he knows how his students are and how james potter is like after hearing what they done to severus snape, so dumbeldore knew that james was going to be a idiot and hunt voldemort with his invisibilty cloak, but as you can imagine the invisiblity only hides you but does not make you surround sound proof so any sound that is made by interactions means that they can be found and heard, refference first harry potter movie when snape grabbed voldemort by his chest and lifted him up, they suddenly heard something and both looked straight in the direction of harry potter and his friends under the invisibilty cloakcand they actually went for a grab, luckily every sound in the invisibilty cloak is negated and therefor not heard and they back stepped out of range. With this example i want to back up this theory with another movie its called the half blood prince, malfoy, knew potter was spying on him the whole time while he was under his invisibilty cloak that means that malfoy can sense traces of ancient magic, but couldn't make out what it is, example movie the prisoner of azakaban where malfoy ganged up on ron and hermione, then harry potter invovled him self and played tricks on them, but a non being can be seen so that leaves the question for draco what could it have been, so draco naturally told his mom and dad about it and then they told him it was a person invisability cloak, to tired to type, just know that if voldemort got it in his hands, there would be no harry potter.
Awesome as always thanks
A gaping hole in your theory is this: the Potters knew they were in extreme danger and they were well aware of the power of the cloak. Further, Dumbledore asked to borrow it. He didn't demand or threaten the Potters to let him borrow it nor did he attempt to steal it. This means that the Potters had a choice in the matter. Dumbledore is more than powerful enough to have forcefully taken it from the Potters one way or another, and yet he didn't. I think it was simply a case of curiosity and bad luck.
So says Dumbledore 😝
@@gustavedelior3683 I see someone reads the Daily Prophet.
@@samuelhaverghast2442 oh no no I'm more a Prophets Digest kinda guy 😁
Dumbledore had been their headmaster for seven years. Perhaps James didn't object for the reason of respecting your elders.
read the books and read the letter in it from lily to Sirius months prior to their deaths. James has been complaining to dumbles about dumbles not returning the cloak after "borrowing" it for so long. James months prior to being killed was asking Dumbles for the cloak to be given back but NOPE! dumbles doesn't. Sketchy as H@ll. No excuse possible beyond JK wanting the potters dead for her story thus the cloak couldn't be in their possesion which makes Dumbles SKETCHY at best and malicious at worst
You should make a video on the different career options in the wizarding world. I don’t think there’s a lot of career options but we’d love to hear from you!
If dumbledore had a great understanding of magical items, then perhaps there was a second use for the cloak. Its entirely possible that the cloak allowed him to sense things that were dead in a way that harry also felt called to horcrux's. Perhaps and ive thought this many times. If welded all three items and walked through the stone passway in the ministry, that it may be possible to pass through the netherworld unharmed.
I don't think Dumbledore felt borrowing the cloak to study it would leave them in more danger, & he wouldn't have done that on purpose because they were part of his Order too. Them being compromised would hurt the whole Order. They'd been in hiding more than a year, so I think it's more likely he just trusted the plan too much & thought it wouldn't be any harm to study something that might help in the future. He didn't know that James had used a different Secret Keeper either. James & Lily kept things from him too. If they felt they needed the cloak as part of their daily safety they wouldn't have let him borrow it. It's not like they were using it in the house.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is When Snape asked Dumbledore why he put on the RING, He stated that he was sorely tempted. So I think the third possibility is the most likely.
For me it seems a little different. It is possible that Dumbledore couldn't allow the cloak to fall into Voldemorts hands if he succeeded with his threats of killing them. This would have made him even more dangerous as he could just wander into the ministry of magic or Hogwarts or anywhere else he would be noticed. And knowing this Dumbledore may have wanted to take the cloak to pass down to the next generation, but that leads me to another point you made which doesn't make sense.
There is no way Dumbledore could have known the order of events when Voldemort attacked, he couldn't have known that Lilly would die before Harry and as such passing the ancient love magic to him. He couldn't have known that Voldemort would have directly attacked Harry with Avada Kedavra, he could have just blown up the house with them all inside.
There is one last point, Dumbledore could see Harry through the cloak, may be this is why he wanted to study such a powerful artifact so he could learn to see through these types of illusions if they were used my Voldemort or the death eaters
Anyway, still an interesting topic and great video as always. I do like the way your videos can bring a friendly debate in the comments section. Thanks
"I have a scandalous theory"
Scandalous indeed. And what's even better, makes total sense to me and doesn't seem farfetched at all.
One thing that I think of whenever I rehear the deathly hallows story points is that it means Harry is a direct descendent of one of the 3 wizarding brothers that met death and received the deathly hallows. Idk why but my brain ignores that fact until it's brought up again and it's just really cool to me.
Pretty sure it was an oversight cause he was excited to learn about a possible Deathly Hallow. This oversight led to the Potter's death, and his later oversight with the ring led to his own death. Though the former was likely unavoidable regardless. James and Lily were taken completely by surprise when Voldemort showed up. They didn't even have their wands with them in the same rooms. Nothing would have changed if they'd had the invisibility cloak with them.
I've said this before. I'm sick of Dumbledore being villainized by fans. Most if not all of what he did was necessary. Maybe not those mistakes you talk about concerning the hallows but he always had the best intentions at heart. War requires sacrifice. Pure and simple. Even if he manipulated events it was for the best.
While I agree that Dumbledore made the decision knowing the consequences, I disagree that dumbledoor is taking risks. We know how strong he is, we know how wise he is and how much his presence commands... I believe Dumbledore knew exactly what needed to be done, he understood the prophecy SO WELL, understood the loopholes and outcomes to such perfection, that to him, it wasn't a risk, merely another stepping stone to the ultimate end that has already been proclaimed.
It also proves just how much he's had to do, alone I might add, to ensure that everything lined up properly.
But when we say, he take risks and makes silly decisios, we make it seem like he had no idea what he was doing and that he was just fumbling around and just so happened to get it right in the end.
My HP Theory is that Brown Sauce is much better that Tomato Sauce!
There's also the possibility that he took it to pervent it from falling into Voldamorts hands.
It's not like the cloak would have helped him much anyway since he pretty much opened the door and got blasted
I think Dumbledore was too obsessed to see what the effects of his actions were going to be.
I doubt that the Potters having the cloak that night would have made things any different. A counter point is that Moody's mad eye was able to see Harry just fine when Harry had the cloak on in GOF. Mrs. Norris could see Harry and Ron with it on in SS. Snape could sense cloaked Harry via legilimency in SS, something that Voldemort is extremely skilled in. Once Voldemort got to their house, he was going to find them one way or the other. I'm sure he had various ways of sensing where they were.
Agreed while a very powerful and long lasting invisibility cloak, that's all it is in the end. It showed no signs of having any magical defense and it could be pierced by a powerful legilimen or true sight type spell like what Moody's eye had and I'm sure Voldy could cast with ease. Hell I'll bet that if Dumbledore didn't take the cloak it would've ended up in Voldy's hands whiteout question.
It did protect from accio.
@@muckfichigan4484 true but does it protect you from the killing curse? Probably not, so with Voldy finding who ever uses the cloak using legilimence or true sight and a quick killing curse or two and his problem is solved and he might just take the cloak to boot not a good out come if you ask me.
I belive it could. Professor* Snape and Mrs. Norris could sense him, yet not really find him. I'd also like to think that the vanishing cloaks thread was woven from gold. Which in OoTP had statues blasted in order to protect except one. The golden wizard.
I lean more toward him wanting to possess- even briefly- the only Hallow he had access to. But given his sometimes ruthless disregard for Harry's safety, a deliberate manipulation to serve the greater good cannot be ruled out. Brilliant video.
Um... You do remember he holds ownership of the Elder Wand, right?
I think Dumbledore knew the Potters were very close to getting caught by Voldermort. Possibly through some spy within the Death Eaters. Their deaths would therfore have been essential to keep this valuable spy hidden. So Dumbledore taking the cloak would both prevent it falling into Voldermorts posession and also give him a chance to study it.
I had figured it was a way to keep the Potter's inside their house. Dumbledore knew how James was, he'd eventually get tired of being cooped up and would use his invisibility cloak to leave the house, potentially alerting a Death Eater to his, Lily's or Harry's whereabouts. No cloak meant none of them could leave which, technically, should have been safer for them.
Dumbledore was obsessed with the Deathly Hallows. He wanted to unite them to defeat Voldemort. He probably thought that if he succeeded he would be able to figure out a way in which to see his sister again or bring her back for good. It was only James & Lily’s death that snapped him out of his selfish motivations and focused him on destroying Voldemort’s Horcruxes.
Dumbledore already had the elder wand. If he knew Harry was a descendent of the Peveral family, then he probably also knew that Tom Riddle was as well. He may have assumed that Tom had the elder stone, so if he, Dumbledore, had 2 out of 3 of the deathly hallows, it would make a victory over Tom Riddle more probable.
Voldy wanted 2 things from memory; to gather the Deathly Hallows and beat the prophecy so he could carry out his power play. Taking the cloak from his targets makes sense for many reasons. Denial of the artifact, research and to return it to fulfill the prophecy. Dumbledore seems to be a great tactician and so knowledgeable he could plan almost 20 years ahead.
To be fair I haven't read the books, could be missing a ton of lore to say otherwise
This theory has one large drawback tho: At this point, Dumbledore could not have known that Voldemort would actually try to attack Harry, because the prophecy could also apply to Neville. He only knows that Potters are targeted, after Snape told him so. Yes maybe at that point there would be still enough time to return the cloak to James, but the cloak - as useful as it could have been - can only effectively protect one adult person. The fidelius charm is more viable at this point. Dumbledore at this point had already 2 hallows and maybe he thought he could find the stone as well. Its still a bit egocentric from Dumbledore, but not as dark as leaving the Potters *intentionally* vulnerable.
Unless ofc it would turn out, that the cloak actually makes you immortal as long as you are using it, say you get old or even hit by Avada Kedavra, nothing would have happened (which is actually plausible within the lore). An attacker would have to know that you are wearing the cloak and hit you with a non-lethal spell first, which also reinforced the concept of "all 3 hallows make you the master of death", since you still need the wand for combat purposes and the stone to "bring dead people back". In my personal head canon i actually believe this to be true, because no one ever died *while* wearing the cloak. I mean, otherwise the cloak would be really lame if you think about it. Yes it never loses its power, but i always thought, that there would be more to this hallow.
Yeah if Peter never told Dumbledore where the potters lived how could he have gotten the cloak from James if he wasn't allowed to know where they were? Also it would seem like this would have made sense because Dumbledore probably gotten it before they put the fidelis charm on because when Lily was writing the letter to Sirius black saying that James was going stir crazy, that indicates that he had no access to the cloak at that time because Dumbledore probably had it and didn't know where they were to be able to return it to him.
I definitely agree with that, it makes sense
it is also entirely possible that one is ascribing deeper meaning to simple early plot devices that became more meaningful as the story evolved; such as Bilbo's invisibility ring in the Hobbit later being rewritten to be the One Ring
If you want to make an omelette, you have to break a few eggs.
Dumbledore already had the wand, with two he could find what he really wanted the stone! Hence why he knew Nicholas filmel? Wrong stone but a step in the right direction?
I mean, Dumbeldore didn't have any reason to suspect that the fidelius charm would not work, because he thought Sirius was the secret keeper, only Sirius and the Potters knew it was him, so I do think he borrowed it thinking they wouldn't need it, since there was no way for the fidelius charm to be broken, sadly, Sirius convinced them to make Peter the secret keeper, I can only imagine how bad would he feel about that after the fact.
I think the truth is a mixture. One must remember that Dumbledore is an expert on afterlife theory, specifically because of his study of the Hallows.
For example, he made the deluminator with the intent of using it for more than light, which is why it can find people. He is also extremely driven by his desire to discover a way to bring back his sister, to a point of being a character flaw.
He has never truly stopped looking for the hallows as they are powerful death magic items. Perhaps they could "with proper study" lead to discovery of a way to truly revive people or allow them to cross over.
He's trying to master death in his own way, but doesn't figure out how to achieve what he wants and realizes it's not his discovery to have.
Technically Dumbledore succeeds in acquiring all the hallows by the time Harry is going to attend Hogwarts.
He has the wand, the stone (in the vault, so accessible) and is still in pocession of the cloak. And he's had them long enough to "study" them.
If anything, his drive to have the items is very much alive and he has to purposely force them away from himself to not fall into destructive actions.
I think this is one of the reasons why he put the stone in the mirror. It keeps him from using it.
Think it’s more likely it being as simple as Dumbledore seen that it was inevitable that the potters would be killed so “borrowed” the cloak to stop it falling into Voldemort’s hands. Knowing from his experience that Voldemort who inevitably try and overcome death via seeking them out
I think Dumbledore was very nearly devoid of human emotion and only thought of maneuvers to attain predetermined ends. If he didn’t know of Pettigrew then his quest to get the 3 artifacts to cheat death may have been his way to circumvent the curses on the hoarcruxes
nah I think its a sstretch saying he gambled with their safety both because before the potters chose another he offered himself up to be the secretkeeper but mostly he was long past the "for the greater good" thinking, he left that path after Ariana died and he chose not to put himself in a position of power for this reason. I think its more plausible he thought there was no need for the potters to have the invisibility cloak while protected by the fidelius charm since he as everyone else thought Sirius was the secretkeeper.
I think dumbledore asked for the cloak for mainly 2 reasons.
1. he was curious about the cloak and wanted to learn more about it.
2. He knew james was a rule breaker and in school would sneak out. So if James had snuck out of the house using the cloak, then the Fidelius Charm wouldnt be enough to protect him. and james would think he is safe under the cloak. Dumbledore must have thought that voldemort could have a way of finding james if he snuck out even under the cloak. So i think that was another reason for dumbledore to request the cloak from him.
My theory is that Rowling needed a way to get the cloak from his dad to Harry. The plot line that Dumbledore borrowed it made sense to her. It which means it wasn’t destroyed in their home.
I still find it funny that as far as we know, Dumbledore and Harry were the only two wizards that ever had all three deathly hallows in their possession, but neither had all three at the same time, but two at most. Harry could have had all three if he hadn't dropped the stone in the forest. You would have thought Dumbledore would have asked Harry for the cloak again just to study what actually happens when one possesses all three.
James was arrogant. He would've thought he was fine and probably lent it to Dumbledore as he was seeking the hallows.
Absolute rubbish. Anything James Potter does (whether good or bad) gets turned against him. It wouldn't make a difference if James kept the cloak or not because in your view James is arrogant no matter what he does (good or bad).
Now now now, you suggest that Dumbledore tends/tended to be steps ahead. IF foresight had shown him that the attack on the family Potter was unavoiidable, then it may also have shown him that he by safeguarding the cloak would be able to prevent Voldemort from getting it. That is a perfectly reasonable and non-evil reason.
Maybe he even utilized a time turner.
Albus would've never done that!!!
Perhaps James knew that it was safer with Dumbledore since it was a Hallow. He would've known this and given it to Dumbledore for safe keeping.
Dumbledore definetely studied it; checking to see it's strengths and weakness. We are talking about one of the Hallows. He found that spells could reveal where you were. Why do you think he knew when Harry was under it everytime? He used wordless and wandless spell that he would use quite often. Moody could see through it, too. James knew of it's weaknesses, seeing as it belonged to him. Voldemort would've definetely sensed someone under the cloak and kill them. Voldemort would've possessed another Hallow.
Dumbledore did write that James left it in his possession before he died. James knew that if they were found, there was no way he could beat Voldemort.
It would have done the Potters no good; just a false sense of security.
The cloak was powerful but it had it's weaknesses.
For those claiming that James kept asking for it back: Dumbledore knew it wouldn't be effective and couldn't afford the repercussions. I'm sure he told James.
Another way it could've gone:
James gave it to Dumbledore knowing it's weaknesses and knew they couldn't risk Voldemort finding it. If he died, then it was to be passed down to Harry when he was old enough; as it was an old family heirloom.
In the end, James and Dumbledore knew the cloak was a Hallow and couldn't let Voldemort take it.
When I read it in the book I took Dumbledore at his word. But then jumping out of the book I could see that it was an easy simplified way for JKR to getting the cloak to Harry years after the death of his parents. Additionally, the deaths of parents needed to be quick and clean to focus on Lilly and why Harry lived.
I think what happened is James said "Hey Dumbledore, I can't go out on missions for the order right now. Maybe someone could use this sweet cloak I have, since I can't." Dumbledore realized what it was and wanted to take a look at it but before he even had the opportunity to lend it to someone, the Potters died. Dumbledore said that it was only a few days before the Potter's death. Not a long turn around
Here’s another hole in the Dumbledore saga, as he already had 2 of the three Deadly Hollows and with the Invisibility Cloak he had in his possession all three at one time, making him the deadliest Wizard ever and the true Master over Death, but he willingly give up the cloak to Harry when Harry was just old enough to use it and also saved the Resurrection Stone in for Harry as well , so in fact he willingly gave up 2 of the 3 Deadly Hollows to Harry without deciding to,use the Resurrection Stone for Himself. Now that’s a true sacrifice that he never told Snape about when Snape made the comment that You raised him like a sheep, to sacrifice at the proper time. He could have informed Snape about the Resurrection Stone to ensure he continued to fulfill his promise to be the double agent against Voldemort.
If you pursue the reasoning of "Dumbledore manipulated everything from the start to obtain the desired result for the greater good" further, you could think that Dumbledore willfully put on the Ring to get cursed and FORCE Snape into his plan... because Snape was one of the most important pieces of it, the piece to convince Voldemort he was on the right track.
I think Dumbledore understood and felt deeply that the prophecy was ultimate, therefore Voldemort meeting Harry/The One was inevitable. He was only afraid that a legendary and powerful artifact such as the Cloak of Invisibility could end up in the hands of Evil.
Dumbledore rarely confronted actual threatening dark wizards til forced to.
Dumbledore wanted that cloak so much that he manipulated potter somehow and he borrowed his familys only protection.
Maybe James brought the cloak to Dumbledore for safe keeping, knowing that voldemort would use it for nefarious means if he were to find it.
The peverils didn’t “choose” their gifts. They asked death for 1)an invincible wand, 2)their lost love, and 3) the ability to leave this place without death following. Death gave them deceptive gifts in response.
As per usual
The simplest and most obvious reason is probably true.
You said it: Dumbledore's obsession w the deathly hallows ( remember he couldn't help but put on the ring that killed him).
And as hindsight is...
NO one expected Sirius to Not be the selected keeper of Potter location.
Though Dumbledore was no stranger to hard choices, I don’t think he had intentions to directly influence the Potters’ safety, for one main reason. The prophecy never outright said that the chosen one would live, only that neither could live while the other survived. Dumbledore would never have risked the possibility that the sole person capable of defeating Voldy could be killed.
it would make more sense that he didnt want to lose the cloak knowing what was likely to happen to the potters vs. wanting to enable their deaths
He could have borrowed it with the intention of lending it to another member of The Order of the Phoenix. Since this conversation happened during Book 1 Dumbledore wouldn’t admit to the Order’s existence, so he lied and said it was to study it. James would have lent it out to help protect his friends.
Where does it say that Dumbledore borrowed the cloak from James? In Book One, at the end when Harry asks Dumbledore who gave the cloak to Harry, Dumbledore says "Ah - your father happened to leave it in my possession, and I thought you might like it.” Dumbledore’s eyes twinkled. “Useful things…your father used it mainly for sneaking off to the kitchens to steal food when he was here." Are you assuming that means that Dumbledore borrowed it, or is it stated elsewhere in the books that he did? Isn't it just as possible that James Potter gave it to Dumbledore for safekeeping or perhaps it was confiscated during his time at Hogwarts? Dumbledore did say that James Potter used it for sneaking around the castle.
Maybe he suspected that Voldemort was about to break the protection of the Potters, and didn't want him to get the cloak. Dumbledore was probably not aware to what extent the hallows were known Voldemort. He might have elminiated the risk of Voldemort getting a hallow by simply removing it from the house.
I thought the same thing about the cloak of invisibility
I personally even believe that Dumbledore was the one to choose Harry over Neville, somehow manipulating Voldemort to go after Harry instead of Neville, possibly by somehow hiding Nevilles existence from him. I mean, if I was Voldemort and learned about a magical prophecy of some kid who one day will destroy me, and it's one of those two kids, I'd go after both of them, rather than pick one based on whatever. There's a 50% chance to be wrong here, and when it's a life and death thing, that's not an acceptable gamble.
So Voldemort didn't know about Neville, because Dumbledore chose Harry as his designated puppet and weapon, loosing a few followers in a pawn sacrifice (the potters) but gaining a spy in Voldemorts ranks (Snape) and Harry who's prophecised to dake down Voldemort one day and so loyal to him he'd die on his orders without hesitation or asking a question. That, or Voldemort has an IQ of room temperature. And even tho it can be argued that Rowling has an IQ of room temperature, a lot of things she wrote can be explaned with complex theories, or with her incompetency, Voldemort/Tom Riddle is supposed to be incredibly smart, to the point of bordering the uncanny.
The ancient magic protection thing from lily also doesn't make sense to just be a natural magical phenomenon, because if it was, it would be more common and well known. The only two people who even knew it exists, other than Harry after he's told, and whoever Harry tells, are Voldemort, with very vague knowledge of how it works, and Dumbledore with the detailed and in depth knowledge about it. So I believe that Dumbledore secretly and delibaretely cast it on Lily. Not to protect her, because he would have had to sacrifice his life to do that, but as the dedicated sacrifice. Being a mother, Dumbledore knew she would do everything to protect Harry, but Voldemort being Voldemort, Dumbledore also knew she didn't stand a chance against him. So she'd die to protect harry no matter what, fullfilling the condition to make the chosen one invincible to Voldemorts attacks.
For starters, while do the Fidelius charm with anyone except the strongest guy on the "good" team? Dumbledore should've been the secret keeper
I think dumbledoor was time travelling i genuinely think he let certain things play out a certain way with wee tweaks here and there to push in the right direction and i think he has been doing it since the Grindelwald , Magonagol being in s time period before her birth ......
And with taking the cloak he was going back and forward and needed that cloak to stay completely hidden no matter what
And hes being going back and forth so much to make sure everything pans out in Voldemorts defeat with the lowest possible deaths
Interesting theory.
I've always believed that Dumbledore "borrowed" the cloak to keep Voldemort from possessing a Deadly Hallow...
I doubt very much not coz i think dumbledore cannot be evil, only because it was albus who had said this to harry: "you are setting too much store by the prophecy." He also stated that u dont have to kill voldy just because the prophecy says so. He in fact thus believed that things would turn out as prophecy said if it was meant to be.. and no interference was needed. Scary thought if albus had been evil n voldy good... i mean he was curious and most intelligent wizard situation wise, he directed his powers correctly, unlike voldy who was hell bent on destroying 1 boy rather than ignoring him. Trust me albus would have been even greater threat than voldy n gellert
dude id love a movie about the peverell's and how they truely achieves the hallows and how they became eternalized in story
Just having the ability to cast a disillusionment charm doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t be fascinated by the only real invisibility cloak in existence. All other cloaks lose their charms over time. Of course he’d want to study this one that has been handed down for centuries.
Is it possible that du.bledore thought voldemory was going to inevitably find the potters and didn't want the cloak to be there for him to get ahold of?
I think dumbledore knew that nothing would stop Voldemort from finding them eventually…if voldemort got the cloak he could walk pass charms…essentially he could walk into hogwarts, which is a lot more dangerous.
I habe a question that could also be a theory: When Harry bought his wand, the one that chose him shared the same core as the one voldemort had. Was this because of the part of voldemort that lived in harry? And following this question if I am right: When Harry died in the deadly Hallows, and the part of voldemort inside Harry died, what happened with his wand, as Harry wasnt the same anymore as when the wand chose him. Did the wand lose allegience to him or is its allegience life long once chosen
Oversight by Dumbledore? No, at this stage of the game and with his experience with Grindelwald and himself, an oversight is not an acceptable excuse. Was he evil? No, but he was damn well manipulative.
I'm saying no on the leaving them in danger. The cloak would not have helped once Voldy knew where they were. He would have just started hurling curses until he hit somebody.
Dumbledore wanted to make sure Harry was the one rather than Neville, or more likely Albus was in league with the death shrew.
Guess I always thought James loaned it for safe keeping. It didn’t work as well hiding with a baby in a set location. Voldemort would have been able to use other methods than sight to find them and have the cloak.