Pouring Babbitt bearings and making upgrades to our Ford Model A | Redline Update # 18
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2019
- Davin heads down to Ron's Machine Shop in Shandon, OH, where he walks us through the step by step process of pouring Babbitt bearings for our Ford Model A "Redline Rebuild" project. Davin will also walks you through the upgrades we are making to the Model A and why they are necessary.
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Old school iron requires old school techniques, awesome!
That young guy's got some skills that would probably embarras some so called experts. Thanks Hagerty!
I really enjoyed watching the skilled craftsmen at Ron's do that Babbitt bearing work. More than five decades ago it was new Babbitt bearings in my 1952 Triumph 650 MC rebuild that educated me about using too much torque when bolting the rod journals to the crank. Only screwed up like that once. Great videos. Thanks.
*That is a Lost Art right there!*
I just found out that my *216 with Babbitt Bearings* from my 1949 Barn Find had a Remanufactured Shortblock put in, in the 80's. So I'm hoping the Babbitt is still in good shape. 👍
Wow.
Makes me really appreciate modern bearings.
My grandad was a wwii B-29 mechanic. The transition away from babbitt bearing to inserts was such a big deal in his lifetime that he always refered to (what we call bearings today) as inserts. I still catch myself saying "tv set." flat screen on the wall less than 1/2" thick, it's still a tv set to me. almost no one today says "tv set." my kids mind it funny. I have an old c-10 chevy. My oldest is approaching the age to drive. She's noticing things. She asked me, "why do you push the gas pedal a couple times before starting the truck?" To set the choke and prime the cylinders. What's a choke?
"Shells" was a common term as well.
@@scheusselmensch5713 My grandfather called them Babbit shells.
Are you old enough to remember floor mounted dimmer switches, manual vents and vent windows?
@@Pulsatyr Heck, I've got half a dozen cars and trucks with just those things.
@@scheusselmensch5713 you're either a wise or fortunate man; perhaps both. Enjoy driving those classics, the modern stuff has no character. Kids get excited about this one or that, but they are all just transportation to me. They have exchanged 9000 sensor points for soul.
I really enjoy your posts, Im fasinated to imagine how Mr Ford conceived all of these machined and cast pieces with nothing more than determination and a slide rule, No CAD no CNC no modern alloys just grit and determination, The real fun Is watching your amazment in the tech of the 1900's and giving credit were credit is due, Wouldnt it be interesting to know Mr Fords reaction to seeing production in our era!!
Awesome. I've seen this process a few times as my uncle rebuilt his engines for his Model A's when i was a teenager in the 70's.
Oh yes... I watched this video before. Well, here is another view! Thank you guys for sharing stuff like this!
That is super cool and awesome!
Can't wait for the Redline Rebuild video!
I love seeing a young guy like Josh master an ancient skill. Huge respect to him
I'm actually kinda impressed they still do this rather than just design a more modern style insert bearing.
They do make inserts.
It would wear the crank too much
Absolutely awesome video, very cool how they did things back then with the basic machine technology they used. That lafrance block!!!!!! Dang!
Thanks for taking the time to make this interesting video !! Much appreciated
Great video and the timelapse A rebuild. I went to Ford in the UK in 1963 and up until 1959 the older sidevalve E93A still had Babbitt rod bearings and no adjustment for tapper clearances just ground to gap. Nice to see so many oldies getting rebuilt.
I did even know this was a thing, thank yall for schooling me.
Seeing that making a mold is easy, casting is easy, this will be useful for rebuilding my lathe. Thanks
I have a Model A, and I kinda knew what was done, but I’d never really seen it in person. Awesome video!
I love the blend of old school, versus the newest technologies.
Well now I understand the process of a babbit bearing. Great to see that there are still a few that can carry on with the old style manufacturing as to preserve the history.
this process is awesome!
That's sweet. Nice "modern" jiggs. Dad taught me how with hickory dowels and hand cutting oil ways. Again that was so cool
When I was a young kid, I remember my uncle Stan talking about poured bearings. I had no idea what he was talking about. He’d explain the process, no explanation comes close to watching a video. Thanks!
Very informative. Enjoyed watching and learning, thanks.
Brilliant video, can’t wait for the build to carry on!
I have heard about Babbitt bearings from the old timers many times. I just couldn't understand what they were trying to describe. Now that I've seen your video, it has all come together. Great job.
soooo nice to see humans still doing this and not some robot. may man never give up his skills. teach them young ins we must never give up our skills.
Awesome, very interesting video. I definitely learned something today. Thank you!
Again I learned something. Great work guys.
Wonderful to see this process.
I'm enjoying watching your good video.
I support you in Korea.
Makes me appreciate off the shelf bearings; thanks for sharing :)
Always wanted to see how this was done. Looks like the poured Babbitt bearings are every bit the PITA that I imagined them to be. Great video.
You guys are very cool! I watch your channel with great pleasure👍
Ron's machine shop is a very talented model A shop!!!!
You guys are the best, your videos are fun to watch, please keep them coming..Frank
I was really interested in what was happening when I saw the full rebuild-- so I had to come and watch this to find out in greater detail what was going on. Very neat. Those old timers sure had some interesting solutions.
Jim's Automotive Machine Shop sent me here
+1 to JAMSI
2:35 I'm shocked and somewhat delighted that there is that much demand for product. Everything old is new again...
I really enjoyed your video. I always wondered what motor that someone put into the pull type combine that’s sitting in the back. Your video did answer that for me. I always thought it was a model T motor. Just to give you a history on this engine that I have. I’m 58 years old and as long as I can remember it was sitting. Nobody ever ran it or used it.
I turn over the engine every year or so. I always wanted to start it to see it run.
Your editor, and content is the best!!
Ron's Machine Shop! I love it. I worked at a speed shop here in Hawaii called Ron's Performance for years! They are no longer around unfortunately.
I love this type of content, thanks guys!
Nice explanation on the balance with the crankshaft and flywheel motion.👍
That was interesting and cool, never knew how that babbiting worked.
I hope you enjoyed your time in the Buckeye State! Let us know when you come back so that we can show some hospitality.
Love all your vids. Great stuff.
BJ and Casey are definitely at the top of their game.... Great place to have vintage engine work done
THIS IS MY #1 Channel !!! 🙏🏼✅🥇🏆👍
Hagerty’s channel BRAIN FOOD!
These A model build videos are some of your best
Beautiful!
Babbitt videos are so rare especially at this detail. You need more videos on this subject
Thanks for the video. I always wondered how Babbitt bearings were poured.
Excellent stuff!
First time I've seen what appears to be a painted crankshaft. Glyptal?
There's another guy on CZcams by the name of Keith Fenner (Turn wright machine works). He's real old-school and, among other things, does a damn good job pouring large white metal bearings!
1950: Rodknock, bring your car we will pour you some moonshine and new rod bearings.
2019: Rodknock, sorry your car is a total write-off...
Ain't that the truth.
@@rcnelson
1950: Here have a straight 6 or flathead v8 that makes 85 horsepower and 70 ft lbs of torque but only gets 14 miles per gallon
2019: Here have a 5.3 L V8 that makes 400 hp, 420 ft lbs of torque, and gets 18mpg city and 25 mpg highway with cylinder deactivation get 30+ mpg on the highway. Even modern 1/2 ton trucks get nearly 30mpg on the highway running on 4 of their 8 cylinders.
I know which one I am choosing. You guys can live in the past if you want to. I'm well over 40 and I'll take modern engines and electronics as well as active suspension and anti lock brakes all day. I'll pull out my laptop and adjust a fuel curve 100 times more precisely, quicker, and much easier than you can open up your carb to change the jets and end up smelling like fuel all day. I've done all that and I wouldn't go back to it. I could buy a Holley or Edelbrock carb for $500-$700 or get an EFI system that will program itself for $1000 and give me better mileage and power. I can work and have worked on anything from tractors to modern German cars. I'll stick with the new stuff, it's 1000x times easier to diagnose a problem and I can verify without a doubt that the problem is fixed after I replace what was faulty. With a 1980 Trans Am I would just be guessing at my diagnoses and then driving down the road after I fix it hoping I made the right call.
Quit blaming modern technology. You could learn to work on modern cars just as easily as I did. It doesn't take a rocket scientist it just takes someone willing to spend a few hours and learn something new. A rod knock in a modern car isn't a write-off anyway. Most folks would rather just buy a new vehicle than spend $3000-$4000 on a new motor and the labor to install it. Taking the old one out and rebuilding it wouldn't be much cheaper and people aren't willing or able to throw $4000 cash at a vehicle that is 10+ years old with 200k+ miles. Engines aren't any harder to rebuild than they were back then. They rebuilt them because their car was likely only 3 or 4 years old and the horrible casting and machining of the engine and components meant that they had to be rebuilt a lot more often. It was just an accepted fact of life that before 100k miles you were absolutely going to be taking out your engine and hauling it to the machine shop.
By the way it costs a lot more to machine and rebuild an old Model A motor in 2019 than it does to rebuild and machine a small block Ford or Chevy motor, even an LS engine is less expensive to rehab than something 80+ years old. I promise you Hagerty spent 3 or 4 times what it would cost to take the LS out of my truck and take it to the machine shop and get it completely rebuilt and back in my truck.
If a Model A cost $700 in 1930 that adjusts to $10,754 in 2019. $10,700 for a complete car. The top of the line Town Car version was about 2x that cost $1500 in 1930 so $20k in 2019 money. Just rebuilding that motor would eat up most of $10,000 in 2019 to do it properly. Old technology with huge tolerances and poor performance and economy. Nobody in their right mind can say "they did it better back then."
The past isn't better you just think it was because you aren't living in it. We always look back on "the good old days" and remember how wonderful everything was. Humans have a tendency to forget most of the bad things and unpleasant times we went through. It's how we carry on and move forward psychologically. We remember what made us happy and the things we enjoyed.
I wouldn't drive a classic car unless it had a drivetrain with fuel injection and a 6 speed manual to go along with a modern suspension and disc brakes all the way around. I've driven enough restored classics to know they drive like garbage, ride like garbage, and stop like garbage with the stock parts on them. There is a reason things aren't the way they used to be and it's because engineering and technology have moved on and improved or replaced all that old tech. A new Coyote engine in a 65 Mustang or an LS in a old Camaro with other upgrades make those cars better then they ever could have dreamed of being when new. If they could have done it in 1920 the way we do it now you can bet your butt they would have because it's simply much better and more precise.
Old isn't better folks, it's just old. We have 10x better now than we did then. People who had cars in the 1920s and 30s had to work on them. They broke down constantly even when they were new and there wasn't a dealership with a warranty to fix all your problems. My grandmother is 98 and she can tell you about all the times her daddys brand new car broke down and he had to work on it right there on the side of the road or they weren't going to get where they were going. She has said it was horrible how cars used to be when she was a child in the 30s. They were unreliable hunks of garbage no matter how well you tried to maintain them. They would and often did break down anyway. You can live in the past and let the world pass you by. You can be like the old folks were in the 1950s complaining about Rock and Roll music or the folks in 1910 complaining about motor cars spooking their horses. Or, you can move forward and keep yourself an informed and productive person. There is zero reason you can't work on a modern vehicle with an internal combustion engine just like you would have an older vehicle. Some of the tools have changed, you will need a scan tool. For engine codes you can get scanners for as little as $20 that connect to your smart phone. For other modules you might need to spend $250 to $500 for a more advanced tool but they will let you find issues in all the vehicles systems and then troubleshooting the cause of those issues is a lot easier.
Don't be intimidated by technology, grab it by the short hairs and make modern technology do the work for you. Never quit learning new things, that's what makes life worth living. I know guys who have been auto technicians for 30 and 40 or more years and they love modern cars. They would all agree they are much easier to troubleshoot. An alternator on a 1970 Ford truck going bad needed to be removed and replaced just like one on a 2019 Ford truck. Most things on cars are remove and replace repairs and for the most part they always have been. Sitting around complaining that things aren't how they used to be is a dead end street. You won't get anywhere and you won't learn anything. That sure isn't how I want to live my life.
Personally I'm sick of all the comments on CZcams about how "they knew how to build them back then" or "it's too bad they don't build them like they used to." If it was the best way to do things we would still be doing it. We learn something new and find better ways to do things constantly. If they built the perfect car in the 1930s we would still be building it the exact same way today. The fact that we don't should be a pretty good hint that it wasn't all sunshine and butterflies when it came to building cars.
@@velvetjones 100% agreed and I enjoyed reading your post. I've driven some v8 carb'd 65-68 mustangs with stock suspension and everything, and although they were pretty quick, they felt unsafe to drive at high speeds especially without abs and all the gimmicks of a modern car. They are fun to drive, but I'd much rather drive a modern car.
@@velvetjones All true, but it took longer to read your rant than it did to watch the video.
My rant is regarding things happening in this millenium. Accounting says to buy the cheapest foreign little irreplaceable bits that go into the hard-to-reach sub-assemblies that go behind everything else. You guessed it, I could replace 3 nylon timing gears on a 60's Chev by the time you get everything else out before removing the modern car's $700 sub-assembly with a bad 0.1 mF capacitor inside that came from Where-the-heck-istan..
@@velvetjones I mostly agree. Lemme explain I dislike bleeding edge tech shits buggier than a hookers underwear, there are alot of cars i wont touch because some of the ultra modern cars (lets be fair and say the last 15 years or so) problems are cause BECAUSE technology behind a given operation is throwin up error codes when mechanically they are sound (and im not talking about the idiot codes like for oil/trans you know the captain obvious stuff) On modern cars for instance a P0420 = catalytic converter issue....usually it throws off a code when there is an efficiency curve not being met (on some of the ultra modern its set to 99 98 percent of meeting said curve before throwing up a code) as stupid as that is it will fail you in most states that require emissions testing.
I currently drive a 95 toyota corrola it has most of the aforementioned tech (way older versions of said tech) When that car was made every piece of tech that was placed in it was more or less very well established to limit potential failures
And you will see alot of cars like that still buzzing around town or where ever you live. Cars have gotten so advanced that the run of the mill mechanic cant even have a prayer on fixing them unless its a basic issue. There is more i wanted to say but I just woke up.....
Is the LaFrance block a Hall Scott? Pretty common in old fire apparatus. .
Amazing!!
Love the content, love the host, beautifully shot and beautifully produced. Keep it up:)
Awesome education! Can’t wait to see the progress!
Thank you for watching!
Very interesting !!! I hope you filmed some of the "sizing" process where they "scrape the babbitt to size it correctly for the journals.
No scraping.Its too slow. At 4:40 you see the long rod thru the mains. It has teeth that cut the babbitt to size
@@pkerit308 OK. So that takes care of the mains. What about the rods??
Great video. Interesting stuff.
Be careful with the improved compression ratio when using babbit. High compression and high revs can pound out the babbit in the rods and mains...! trust me I did it with my fresh rebuilt hopped up Model A, I'm now switching to inserted bearings and pressurized oil to the mains!
Holy heck, you were in my neck of the woods for this. H-town, represent!
Very kool video!!
It just shows how much Ford had it right. Built to last and easily repaired 100yrs later.
Wow, how good was that, still learning
Cool video Davin, so different than today's engines
Its Babbitt season.
I've always wondered how they do that. I'd like to see a model T babbitted. I've heard it's poured directly into the journal, but idk.
I would give this two likes if I could for the LeFrance engine at the end. Crazy when 1 or 2 cylinders equals a small block Chevy and you have 6 of them.
👍master of his craft
That block in the end... OOF man!
been following your stovebolt chevy truck rebuild, didnt know what Babbit bearing where so I googled it and I came here, the shop made rod bearing looking like solder and way rough
I like to see a rebuild on that engine at the end.
Cool shop ! I thought I saw some American LeFrance cylinders when you first went in the shop . I have one of those big 6 cylinders in my shop right now . Unfortunately we don't pour Babbitt bearings and the man I used recently passed away . I may contact these folks at Ron's .
Really interesting
AWESOME SHARE ! .. ENJOYED
Thank you for watching. Enjoy the ride!
I like that type of ingenering
Very cool Chanel . I love you work, i am from mexico
It's always nice when you drive into Ohio from Michigan. Once you hit Ohio roads your car doesn't complain so loudly and your teeth don't rattle anywhere near as much
As an Ohio resident, I take pity on you if our roads are superior to yours. I was helping a friend, an immigrant from Nigeria, move his office cross town. On a road in which I thought I had destroyed my suspension, he looked at me and said, "There are no roads this good in Nigeria." All I could do is laugh.
@@Pulsatyr I grew up in Michigan and now I live in Ohio. The roads here are far superior to the roads in Michigan. They're terrible up there
He's gonna be a really great creature.
I don't understand, but it's beautiful I'm learning very well because I'm from the same profession thanks
Greetings from Uzbekistan!
Good teacher
Parabéns muito top esse canal sou fã desse canal .
fascinating
Круто! Это не работа а сплошное удовольствие! Спасибо за видео! Привет из Сибири!
Nice
Going to be getting more babbitts with that 216
I see Pennzoil logos . I never use Pennzoil since it has wax in it . We popped off a ford 351 that hah over 200,000 miles on it and the rocker shaft , valve springs and the whole top of the head looked like someone poured a gallon bucket of hot black wax all though the top of the had and the parts. We asked the owner he said he always used Pennzoil. I also heard Quaker state does the same thing? I stick with Castro and Rotella
Killer next level skills! Please help rebuild my '73 240Z!
спасибо, было интересно ))
As a very young kid, ~1962, I remember my Dad restoring a Model A from scrap in Roswell NM. I recall him later saying that he was upgrading his restored Model A bearings to Model C bearings that would last longer ~1974-75. Do you have any idea what was referring to? I’m pretty sure he did it with only the oil pan removed. Without removing the engine. But I could be wrong.
This process is almost a lost art. I am surprised they do so many of these daily... Imagine doing a v-12 or v-16. Its kinda of like Leading that was used before fillers. Great Video, thx.
I’ve been working on cars for 12 years and have all my Ase certs. I had absolutely no idea that bearings used to be poured. I guess I’m so used to the current technology in the industry.
@Mr. Morningstar OIlite and also 'shell' type bearings with a thin layer of some bearing material (be it babbitt, indium, even silver!) over a bronze backing, which in turn was supported by a steel shell.
Is that red paint glyptal?? (Mind my spelling)
I've got Babbitt bearings in my 1933 air handler fan shafts
Modern car engines still have Babbitt bearings in the mains. I believe the same goes for the rod bearings as well. The just don't cast them into the part. It's now a separate made piece that slides into the block and rods
Makes sense- self oiling is a genius concept👌
@@traddad9172 they are NOT self oiling
@@pkerit308Babbitt's I have are self oiling, but it isn't a car application
Had someone try and correct me concerning Helicoils. It doesnt matter the name brand or technique, us old timers still call them Helicoils. I watched my dad do babbits as a kid. My Grandfather owned the garage that is now located in Henry Ford's Green Field village. When he was retiring, Ford offered to buy his entire shop lock stock and building. I still have a few model T wrenches that were his. My dad played Violin at the Ford Theater. He told me how him and his brother used to harass Edsle Ford growing up. He told me that Henry's wife used to chase them off the Ford Estate with their dogs.
How does one become a worker in a machine shop like that? Looks like an awesome job where you can learn so much.
I'm gob smacked that there are that many vintage engines being rebuilt to support a business.
Old Gear Head it makes me feel really really good inside to know there are still those out there that appreciate, and wish to preserve such objects of history and artwork
O Brasil agradece pelo vídeo
ok guys i asked this earlier but i dont know if you guys got it, but why babbitt? why not regular bearings? are they not available for your build? and how long can you go before having to redo the babbitt?