Are Tubeless Tyre Inserts Over Rated And Pointless? | Ask GMBN Tech
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Welcome back to another episode of Ask GMBN Tech, where we try to answer all of your complex, scary, niche, and technical questions about mountain bikes and MTB-related tech!
⏱️ Timestamps ⏱️
00:00 - Intro
00:26 - Would it be possible to ride with no air pressure, just inserts?
02:22 - Can you evaluate the value of a DIY tyre insert Vs official brands?
03:27 - I'm going to add Rimpact inserts for a trip. Should I run lower pressures?
05:04 - Can inserts be too big?
05:26 - I'd like to run tubeless and inserts but no sealant, will this work?
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Can you make a review of Tannus Armor tire inserts with inner tube model?
They are not pointless, but they are pointless for me at my weight and the way I ride (LOTS of time riding in Moab, which is hard on tires and rims - though I've never had a problem at 160 pounds). I put them in an ebike tire but found several problems. First of all, they make the ride harsh. Much like tokens, which can also be useful, they reduce the volume of air in the tire so there's a fast ramp up in pressure. Secondly, in my case after checking on them in a week, I got "stanimals" and that was with Orange Seal! So, with the solids "churned out" of solution, the tires won't seal as well. Finally, if you do damage a tire past the point of sealant or bacon strips, you now have to remove the tire from the rim to install a tube. VERY difficult, as the insert presses against the rim.
6:18 As you point out, many tires inflate and stay inflated on a tubeless rim without sealant. If you've done a good job taping the rim and inserting the valve, with a decent tire, it'll hold air. The sealant is there for punctures.
They are must have for Ebikes/Enduro
I run Vittoria air-liner in both my ebike and analog. I would not go without them as the air-liner has saved my rims multiple times from being damaged beyond being rideable. I only run the inserts in the rear tyres and they are appropriately sized to the tyre (Vittoria Air-liner comes in different diameters to suit different tyre widths). The only drawback is that the insert makes tyre installation harder.
Good questions and answers! Thx!
I always loved the feeling of tannus armour inserts. You can still use tubes with them, it's just a hassle to get on. Especially when you are using a tyre that's clearly too wide for the rim. But when you do, you can at least use that tyre because of the extra sidewall strength
I think they're great because I like the extra damping and sidewall support which is why I run Cushcore specifically but I also don't think they're for everyone. If you're riding rocky and aggressive terrain they'll save you from a poor line choice, but if your trails are mellower their benefits are reduced. As far as the extra weight goes you really only notice the weight the first day you put them on and the first day you take them off, the heaviest Cushcore weighs about the same as a tube for reference.
Hi. I use tannus system on 29. Very good and simple to use. Bye from Verona
I ride a hardtail and the rear insert is a must. Running a wide 2.6 with 19 psi and an insert offers just the right amount of rebound that it feels like suspension in small, sharp, fast bumps.
I use them in my 29+ tyres so I can go super squishy on the stache - makes it feel like a short travel fuller susser and eliminates the tyre roll when pushing hard in corners - only downside is the extra rolling weight.
I live in bentonville Arkansas. Been on cush core for almost 2 years, I have had 1 single flat since Cush core and DD tires. Easy pedaled @ 1.5 miles out of the trail on a fist tire because Cush core.
Tried a tannus last week on my new bike, 45 minutes in I flat out and have a dinged rear wheel!
According to strava I have ran the trail (loam wolf) 52 X on Cush core with zero issues, first ride on it with Tannus and this happened.
The difference in the two is shocking and the additional weight of the cushcore is well worth it based off my experience that I’m sharing here.
To me, that’s an absolutely insane question. I simply will not go without them! Have used both the self made and Kush Core. The Kush Core are worth the price for me, but that’s just me.
Do you need a med card for Kush Core?
@@Argos1571 Med card? That makes no sense
You spelled it Kush instead of Cush lol@@jammerlr7780
@@jammerlr7780 Kush being slang for Weed hence the med card joke, The product you refer to is Cush Core slang for Cushioned Core
@@jammerlr7780weed
Vitoria Air Liner in both my Enduro and Levo SL Rear, absolutely amazing and so good I feel guilty as run my tires way past there sell by date! I do still end up doing punctures but only for my mates who are too tight 😂
I haven’t made the switch. When running maxxis exo tires I got punctures on a number of occasions. Since I went DD on rear and exo+ on the front, I haven’t had one in 2 years. I was riding with a mate in pisgah last wkend who uses cushcore, he got a flat strangely enough.
G'day, For casual trail or cycle paths type rides i run those tannus inserts & previous those green ones? BUT with a small inner tube with a helping of sealant in the tube.. forget all about punctures but the tyres are a bit heavier & vauge. Lap times or racing is tubeless for feel, with the backup tube. Have a fantastic day
I have one in my dh bike (cushcore) and none in my enduro bike. Inserts allow that super grip psi without destroying a rim in a single run. But they do slow the snap on the first few pedal strokes. Have ridden a ripped tyre down part of dyfi and still have the same rim and Insert
I use Rimpact V2 because I had a really bad run of bad luck wrecking tyres on my very rocky local tracks. 4 months later and touch wood I've been fine. Anecdotal, I know, but money well spent IMO if you're prone to pinches.
I also know when my tyre pressure is too low when I get a squeaky bum noise from my tyre on a steep climb 😂
it took me a while, but actually this season i try tubeless Mavic Crossroc Quest 27,5"x2,4" (2015)system first time! i got 2.4 tires and good sidewalls, i dont think inserts will make sense cause the tire is so thick i never could punch the whole tire i guess...but, we will see ^^
I think it comes down to how you ride (do you pick good lines or just smash through), your weight, and how often you really test the limits of your wheel/tire combo. There is no one size fits all answer.
I’ve been running inserts for the last two years on my trail bike. However since the birth of my son a year ago the riding I do now has really changed and I’m primarily riding XC trails. I recently had DT Swiss XM481 rims built up and as I only weigh 165lbs I don’t plan on putting any inserts in them to start and plan to just ride for a while to see how it feels. If I do run inserts they will probably be Vittoria Airliner light inserts though I honestly don’t think I will need them. That works for me and how I ride. Your situation may be different and that’s cool too! It’s your bike and your money. Do what you want, support cool brands, and enjoy the ride.
Logical
I am interested in a discussion about tire plugs. Do not use them currently but a large puncture on a long ride could be easily repaired. How effective are these in plugging holes?
I've been running CushCore for 5 years. I've never had a pinch flat, untill I switched tires to a lighter sidewall. I had a huge slice with a light casing. I have to run inserts because of my weight of 230lbs which helps in my mind BUT if your tires don't have the right sidewall for your riding you can still rip the tire in a pinch flat.
I can run a trail with a 100% flat with CushCore when the tire can't be repaired which is s nice plus.
The last Question running without sealant if the tyre stays up, my thought on this is good luck finding a thorn hole in the tyre, it amounts to a pin prick. For what mess is in the tyre I would just put the sealant in. I have completed 2 Mega Avalanches and had one puncture that required a slug popping in and off I went. Also best part of 5 years without any small punchers.
Before cushcore I had weekly snake bites. Since cushcore none. I guess if you ride rocky trails on a heavy ebike they are a game changer. XC trails on buffed tracks? Probably not worth it.
Snakebite’s through your tyres.
With an insert you can drop pressure and add compression or thicker oil to your fork bcoz the lower pressure will soak up the chatter. So your fork will be there just for medium to big hits and can do a much better job with the travel it’s got.
I think a lot of this goes back to quality of wheels and tire sidewall. I think an inexpensive set of wheels are most likely prone to flexing more than a very expensive high-quality wheel set.
#askgmbntech I got a Cube Reaction C:62 Race 2022 (1x12 shimano deore xt) and I want to change the front chainring which has currently 32 t for an oval chainring with 12% and 34 t. I assume I need the clearance for a round 36 t chainring. I already wrote the cube customer support and they couldn't answer the question. So what would be the biggest oval chainring I could install on that bike? I also enjoy the show a lot and looking forward to the next episodes 😊
I’ve been thinking lately that my inserts (Tubolite) require that I add even more sealant as it would seem that they impede the sealant getting to the pin hole leak as effectively than if I didn’t have a liner getting in the way of progress. Could be wrong on that. Anyone with similar experience?
#askgmbntech hi guys, i am not the most handy guy around, but when it comes to my bike, my passion really gets me interested. I already learned a lot from the channel. My dream is to build a hardtail from the frame up, can you guys do a in depth video (or series) where every single step is explained that even a dummie like me can do it? Or do you guys have a link to a guide like this. Cant seem to find anyrhing on youtube that doesnt either skip some steps of goes to fast over others. Thanx!
#AskGMBNTech Hey guys! I have a Canyon Spectral 27.5 CF 9, and I want to upgrade the headset bearings to Cane Creek's high-end ones. Water easily infiltrates the frame, and especially the bottom bearing is worn out. When I try to turn the handlebars after a couple of days of not riding, it's initially quite challenging for around 10 twists or more, but then it becomes easier. However, the bearing feels rusty. The ones currently installed are the Canyon GP7273-01, and I'm unsure about which Cane Creek model to choose since there are numerous options. Thank's for the help ☻
All have do is make smaller version of a pit bike wheel lock so tire stays locked sealed won’t have blow outs from bead only puncture bites etc and then just put insert honest I’m honest in works making my own wheel locks
I have a few bikes and a few sets of wheels. Enduro bike? Yes, insert in the rear. Trail bikes? Depends on the wheelset. If the wheelset has the agressive tires, then yes, in the rear. If the wheelset has the cross country-ish tires, then no. The weight penalty is not worth the type of terrain those tires see.
What about reports of them simply going really thin ( ie getting sqaushed ) over time and then not really doing their job?
Can I use a tannus armour, and a cush core at the same time?
One in the front one in the back maybe, but you won't have the volume for both in the same tyre (and we bet it would feel horrible!)
@@gmbntech Thank you, nobody has done that yet haha, I was curious
I still prefer sealing inner tubes
Not pointless. Cushcore in the rear for sure. No reason to run crazy low psi I still run what I always do 23-24 in front 26-27 rear
#AskGMBNTech what makes an mtb a good climber (geometry, suspension setup, etc..)? is a good climber automatically make it a bad descender?
#askGMBNtech regarding the question asked about if tyre inserts are worth it as DH riders don't use them. Think about the discipline it's self. Down a hill fast as possible, enduro on the other hand, it's stages and you use the same equipment on the bike, so inserts are an advantage to save their wheels. Same with xc riders.
By the time you ad sealant and an insert, you gain very little from going tubeless beyond small hole puncture protection.
Exactly right. No plans to go back to tunes.
Nobody has mentioned the snake bites, where the tube gets pinched between the tire in the rim, but those are the biggest problem with tubes for me and my kids.
Cushcore is awesome for enduro style riding. Don't like the mess of sealant? Install tubes and pull the valve core, inject sealant and voila, best of both worlds (except no cushcore which is a must have on rear wheel if you ask me)
Recently installed a pair of Michelin DH tires. Definitely no need for inserts anymore.
#askgmbntech Do tyres with yellow sidewall branding really make you go faster? 🤔
Maxxis, Conti,, Pirelli, etc, ect ect...
#Askingforafriend
#TeamPirelli
#askgmbntech, Why haven't the tannus armor inserts been covered yet at the tech show? I'm not a fan of the messy tubeless with sealant option. And have been riding on the tannus inserts for a long time now without any punctures. maybe these are a little heavier than the tubeless setup, but I don't think this makes a big difference for the average mountain biker and certainly not on an E-MTB.
they're simply unable to match the reliability of a tubeless + proper insert setup
If you hit hard enough it will pinch flat or worse damage the rim, the same impact would probably be fine on a cushcore or a rimpact
They have much higher internal friction. However tire damage protection and reliability should be above anything tubeless.
For bigger riders that overwhelm the sidewall protection, they're not. For the average 160lb or less rider on good tires, you're just kidding yourself.
Don't like them. They mess with the rebound and compliance of the tyre especially on roots.
Some I've tried make an annoying rattle especially inside carbon rims.
There should a Tube inside the tubelles tire ready to inflate a bit when the tire fails. Like a support system to be able to continue rolling. but inserts themselves are trash. just get a DH tire and forget about anything else. if anything go 29 PSI. even 30 if you are heavy or an absolute heavy hitter with sharp rock trails on hand. Pro DH riders barely use casings in DH races going a real speeds. Why on earth would normal human beings bneed this stuff then.
Yes, just run 40 PSI
I just stuff the rear with an insert.
Oh that sounds nasty.
yes, they are round
Ridden without them since their inception. Never had a tire/rim issue. I rode all over America from the mountains of Colorado to the deserts of Arizona, on multiple bikes. It would have been a waste of money for me. For diy, closed cell foam noodles are the exact thing needed, doesn’t absorb sealant and is very firm. This is the foam the companies use. You can trim them with a utility knife. BTW, didn’t use sealant this year, because I got into pickleball and spent all my MTB money on paddles and balls (1500usd+, stupidly addicting game, still can’t call it a sport).
No they are brilliant. Won't ever put a wheel build together without inserts now.
Shout out to all the commenters whose phone autocorrects Cush to Kush.
We know why. Pass that!
Foam inserts were marketed in the 1980s A total failure as over time the foam compresses and just adds weight
Yeah. But 40 years later, these foams are totally different. Same goes for shoe insoles. It wont pack out like it did in the 80s because we are able to make them much better now.
About DIY inserts: it is _literally_ like a DIY matress. Yes, factory made seem overpriced, but you can't match the performance with off the shelf padding.
I tried Tannus inserts. So hard, even with wide rims and tires, could not get the tire seated. LBS could not either. Tannus support suggested a bunch of things, confirmed that the specs of rims and tires should work, but would not. They gave me a refund.
if they had a point they would puncture the tire
Of course they are pointless, they are round and squishy 🤣🤣🤣
No inserts here! 170lbs w/o my gear on, Enduro bike, 2.6" Conti tires out in the super rough Las Vegas rocks.... 22psi front, 25psi rear. Traction for Daaaaaaayz, and zero issues. Inserts to me seem like, you might as well go back to riding with tubes. You don't see off-road trucks & jeeps out in Moab running foam in their tires... they just air-down and use bead-locks. Since we don't have bead-lock MTB wheels, we can't run single digit pressures... however, if you feel like you need less than 22psi in your front tire you've got bigger issues to cope with.
“Just go to the Alps” oh I didn’t realize it was that easy…
What's up with all these guys in skin tight suits in these DH racers clips ?
Yes they are pointless. I ride a hardtail down double black diamond trails and never get flats and my wheels have over 8,000 miles on them and still straight as new.
Same. Running tubeless on my DH and Enduro - never had any issues or flats. Big fan of Maxxis tires.
They are overrated. I’ve been riding tubeless for 15+ years. I don’t need inserts. Keep it simple.