Fr. Peter Heers Examines the Views of Scott Hahn on Orthodoxy
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2022
- Excerpt from: The Orthodox Ethos Extended Podcast: After 1,000 Years - An Orthodox Examination of Catholicism: • After 1,000 Years - An...
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Apparently, Mr. Hahn doesn’t recognize the cultural differences between Spanish or Mexican Catholicism compared to Irish Catholicism compared to Italian Catholicism. All of which have distinct cultural differences from each other.
I always reverse the ethnic argument. If you really believe the Orthodox Church is true, but you turn away from it because your local parish doesn't match your own ethnic/cultural background, then
Also, like many things Catholic I have to ask, has he not read the Book of Acts? The presence of the Holy Spirit, the Parakletos, at Pentecost gives the Apostles the ability to communicate intimately in every language so wouldn't Orthodoxy's ability to flourish in any cultural milieu be a strong proof for it on its striking consistency with Scripture?
I've seen this and was very surprised this was the reason he gives for why he didn't become Orthodox. Mr. Hahn was very instrumental in my conversion to Catholicism. However, I begin to wonder if the reason why he didn't become Orthodox was because he wouldn't be able to develop his business writing books, teaching in Steubenville, EWTN shows, etc. I find Orthodoxy to be a quiet and humble Church with theologians quietly in the shadows. Perhaps Mr Hahn is unable to be in the shadows professionally. I'm so grateful I'm on the journey out of RCC. Lord have Mercy on me.
On the whole ethnic thing in the Church. Im reminded of what Jonathan Pageau often says, unity in multiplicity. In Christ we can all be united without losing our distinctiveness. I’m glad our priest (Fr. Josef) is Dutch and speaks Dutch, makes it a lot easier for me. We have some Greek in there (Lord have mercy and maybe some more) and the Lords Prayer is done in all languages by the faithful in attendance, Dutch, Greek, Romanian, Russian, Ukrainian and Arabic and maybe some other languages depending on who’s there. That’s what I love about our (Saint Nektarios parish) Church, there aren’t many Orthodox Churches here, so we all come together to glorify God and venerate the Saints. Some even know the Lords Prayer in multiple languages. How great is that? Glory to God! ☦️🙏🏻
Father Heers the way you refute and substantiate mistakes by those seeking to be Orthodox and exposing their mistakes without calling them names while being respectful and professional about it is truly the reason why you are truly my on line spiritual father. God love you.
Hahn’s greatest strength as an apologist is that he doesn’t exclusively interpret early church theology through a scholastic lens. Since my conversion to Orthodoxy and hearing Orthodox lectures on the Fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom in Christ, and the Theotokos as Ark of the New Covenant, in the same way the Golden Box was Ark of the Old Covenant, Hahn gets these details exactly correct, and he seems to approach them without all the usual Scholastic baggage. He only resorts to them and other post-Carolingian dogma when defending the peculiarities of papal claims. I think this shows his heart was, indeed, going in the correct direction before letting these ethnic perceptions derail him.
I am a convert to Orthodoxy. Having been a former Latin (I was born into the RC Church before I converted) I never understood why so many of them wrongly believe these ethnic aspects among jurisdiction of certain autocephalous churches somehow override the theology of the Church. This seems to be something that really bothers papalists, despite the fact that their own churches once had these stark ethnic characteristics.
The Catholic parish I attended had two Masses. One in English and one in Spainish. There are separate festivals for each ethnic group in that one parish.
Father, I was a member of the Church of Rome for 65 years before becoming Orthodox. My wife of over 41 years told me I was always Orthodox. Unfortunately the Church of Rome was not. I was born and grew up in a small North-Central Pennsylvania city. In the west end there was Holy Rosary Parish attended by mostly Poles. Moving eastward there was Annunciation Parish predominately made up of Irish. A bit more to the east and north was Mater Dolorosa Parish made up of mostly Italians. More to the east was St. Boniface Parish made up of Germans. Parish boundaries did not seem to matter as people simply preferred to be with those of their same ethnicity. Especially vicious were basketball games between St. Joe's (Annunciation - Irish) and St. Boniface (German) schools. When a St. Boniface girl married a St. Joe's boy, or vice versa, at the basketball game the wife sat on her side of the court with her people and the husband sat on the other side with his people. In the early United States there was an extreme dislike between Catholic Irish-descent bishops and Catholic German-descent bishops. This unfortunate man's experience and knowledge is rather limited. The Orthodox are, or should be, aware of prelest whereas it is all too common elsewhere. I just got a Bible so I'll interpret it for you and teach you? I visited a few Orthodox Churches and am now qualified to pass judgment on the entire Orthodox Faith? God forbid I lose my own soul and even worse mislead others into doing so.
As a recovering new age American I struggled with this view especially in the last year. God puts any of our struggles in front of us before full entry into the Church. I persevered in placing my will in his keeping and lo and behold he is revealing the mystery of such matters to me. In my experience and understanding, from the Father, as little as it is with me, the Orthodox Church is the only Church in which within, beyond the worldly veil, (ethnicity) the Holy Spirit remains in force today. Though many Orthodox are abandoning, have never known or are denying this. That is expected.
I am a Roman Catholic, I deeply appreciate Dr. Hahn, but what Father Heers states here couldn't be more right and more clear.
All due respect to Mr Hahn, critiquing Orthodoxy from the ethnic angle is not only low hanging fruit but feeble as well. He seems to think that the difference between ethnicities is tantamount to a difference between denominations. It’s the persistent fallacy of others as well. Lofton also comes to mind.
When I was Roman Catholic, Scott Hahn was my go-to apologist. Now that I'm becoming Orthodox, it is just absolutely cringe-worthy to see the weakness of his arguments against Orthodoxy. These Catholic "apologists" only know how to debunk protestantism.
One of the reasons I converted is bc of all the different cultures...it's a beautiful thing. And IMHO helps stand against the current gl*balist agendas. Thank you father for these ☦️☦️☦️
Thanks again Father for this analysis.
In a nearby city a Catholic Vietnamese Church was recently established. Many Churches in that area also offer Mass in Spanish and Vietnamese as well.
Thanks, Fr. Peter. I’m really enjoying these response videos. ☦️
Funny when I was looking into things, I wanted to be Catholic because they have seats 😂😂😂 true story. But I couldn’t deny orthodoxy and I’m so very happy.
Thank you Father Peter for another informative video. ☦️