For Those Interested in Orthodox Monasticism - Abbot Seraphim
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 27. 06. 2024
- In this episode, Abbot Seraphim discusses the process for discerning whether or not a monastic candidate will be a good fit for the community.
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This is the fourth episode from my interview with Archimandrite Seraphim (Voepel), abbot of Holy Cross Monastery in Wayne, WV.
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About his age limits, this is exactly how I felt after the birth of my first child in my late 20s-that I had spend a decade practicing deep selfishness unknowingly! What a shock! I think this is why so many women get depression postpartum no matter how much money they have because of course this is what society directs us to amass in order to prepare for motherhood.
Salvation and relationship with the Lord and a life of prayer is the most important thing a man or a woman can do as long as it comes from the heart that's what the Lord looks at. The Lord knows the heart and those who worship must worship and love the Lord in spirit and in truth. Great video god bless you and thanks for sharing.
I have found that this âdesireâ within me for what I believed was the call to monasticism is just the desire to repent of my sins, frequent the Mysteries, be holy, and pray unceasingly. Iâd be open to joining a monastery if I wasnât so concerned with becoming a good father and future husband. May the Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.
A few months ago, I came across a quote from a monk who was asked what monastic life was like, he answered "chopping wood, fetching water."
As an old woman, aged 52, with a million dishes washed and clothes hung up to dry, if someone asked me what my life was like, I would say "washing, washing, drying, drying, praying, praying."
I have said the Jesus prayer since I was in my late 20's.
That washing was said in prayer.
I had no idea it was Orthodoxy. A tiny book in a French bookstore explained it. How that changed my daily life.
I had Jesus with me, wherever and whatever I was doing.
So even if there is no monastery for a divorced, old woman, it is fine.
He is already with me.
(And these last 18 months of lockdown, in a tiny flat, has taught me that I am actually very content with "cell" life. Others have lamented not seeing friends or going out. For me, it has deepened my prayer.)
(I do have a flatmate. So it has not been total isolation).
Now I wait for the next step and pray đ God will guide me to a community that practices Orthodoxy.
Thank you for these videos.
They do help.
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Hi, I saw your post and it reminded me of my Orthodox life. I am 50 and also do a lot of dishes and washing - and the Jesus prayer. Can I suggest you read the Saints' writings? Maybe starting with Saint Paisios. Also, find an Orthodox community so that you can attend services. Becoming and being Orthodox is only truly possible by attending the services. There is lots to learn online but the Church is central to everything.
I am a 58 old widow and been looking for a such community to be in a family of Orthodox Christian sisters. I tried to live in a monastery. It is better to live close, rather than in.
God bless all of you
Concerning the informal rule concerning age limits: in the end, as he said, it ultimately depends on the individual and their willingness to adapt to living in a monastic environment and all that entails. Not everyone is cut out for it and that includes young people who think they're "on fire" for the Lord. In fact, I would conclude the opposite: I would say the older the person, the more likely he/she is to persevere.
You also have to be careful about utilizing the argument that older people are "too set in their ways" to become monks. If that is true - and to a certain extent it is - then you would also have to say that there is an age limit to even becoming a Christian at all, since those outside the monastery are also called to a life of prayer and repentance just as monks are.
In the end, with God all things are possible.
Nathaniel P. Adams He sounded too strict to me, basically willing to accept people between 20 and 30 years old. Apart from some special cases.
@@radicr This is the mistake the Catholics have made, being far too picky in who they allow into their orders (e.g. some of their friaries require applicants to have a university education). I believe this has been a significant contributing factor in the closure of many of their monasteries. In Orthodoxy, those who can't hack it leave of their own accord.
I had no idea this was the case within Orthodoxy when it comes to monasticism. I'm a 37 year old man with 16 years of years of active duty in the US military. It's quite unfortunate that I found Orthodoxy so late in life as I think I have the calling to become a monk, but I'm signed on to the military until my 20 year mark which would make me 42 years old. I really only know structure, and discipline that was set down by others aside from myself. I'd also have a retirement check to bring to the table at a monastery. Truly a shame that I'm potentially too old to become a monk.
@@SymeonPhronema That's my point...I think this idea that one is "too old" to become a monk is more subjective than anything else. It's _plausible_ to say that one is less likely to succeed in monasticism as one gets older but then the opposite could also be the case, since young people with a zest for life uninformed by experience and tempered by cynicism tend to be more idealistic and could find the monotonous routine at a monastery stifling. Older people have a better idea of what they're giving up.
I would say that if you want to be a monk, go for it. As long as you're willing to adapt and grow, I see no reason why any abbot in his right mind would turn you away. Like I said, with God all things are possible.
@@Primordial_Synapse You are absolutely 100% correct in my opinion about growing, and adapting. Obedience certainly applies, as well. I appreciate the inspiration, and Abbot Seraphim *did* give an example of an older gentlemen who he accepted to the monastery that is doing quite well. So, exceptions are certainly made, though I may, or may not be one of them. I have a visit on the books set for when I return from an upcoming deployment to a GOARCH monastery that is a few hours away; God willing of course. I appreciate the kind words, and the inspiration, Nathaniel.
I'm Very disappointed with the world. Since i found Orthodoxy, It's becoming harder and harder for me to live in the world, or in a big city atleast. I don't think that this is monastic call tho, i still enjoy some aspects of secular life
Same experience here. It's really not easy.
Be in the world but not of the world
Yeah I said this all my life long before I was orthodox. I always felt like a foreigner in this world and especially America
I know the feeling, though deep in my heart I envy monastics because they have what I do not, and it truly is a divine presence and a divine/holy life, simple and all dedicated to our Lord Jesus Christ. Ill give it some time to sit.
My "secret" longing is to be a monk... fulfilling at least 3 decades of longing... but I am over the 40-year mark and also have children from my prior marriage.
Good evening. I have thought about the monastic life for years, but I have been my mom's caretaker since my father's passing in 2011. My father told me years before he passed that he would have been a monk if he didn't get married. I am not married. I have not practiced my catholic faith in years, but this pandemic has reignited this interest in me. I don't know if I would be accepted since I am in my late 40s.
Would you be a catholic monastic?
I have long found monasticism very appealing, particularly Orthodox monasticism. But I couldn't be one even if I wanted to, though I had thought about it, I'm afraid my answer would be a disappointing one. I'm 33 and only a catechumen, have some student loan debt and have not lived a righteous or virtuous life long enough before coming to the faith. My own personal testimony speaks of the potency of and the power of Christ snd His ancient church. Apart of what appealed to me was the celibacy. I'm new to Orthodoxy and have much to learn, after coming from a sinful and sexually disordered life, it would be better to let those who are more qualified to discern the monastic rule. I'd be willing to adapt and learn and grow, which should be more important than age, but who am I to argue. At the end of the day, the Lord might have more use for me and my personal testimony in the laity.
Slowly, slowly, brother! It is good to see one's sin and to repent...thanks to God for this...may we all have such clarity of vision. St. Moses the Black led quite a disordered life before becoming a monk...in time things will become clear. May God continue to guide you on your path!
@@ProtectingVeil I've never been more afraid in all my life lol
Never say never! Remember the parable of the Prodigal Son? Maybe it should be called the Parable of the Loving Father instead! I know a man slightly older than you, who, only a year after his conversion to Orthodoxy, made a pilgrimage with me and some other fathers and their sons, to Mount Athos of all places! St. Moses the Black (as already mentioned) or St. Mary of Egypt both turned out quite alright in the end:)
T.R. McPherson There is deep humility in your words, my friend.
I too suffer from the same student debt nonsense (the sins of the 'real' world), and I'm sure the debt will outlive me, which means that I could never be a monk, rather, I could only be a home-based worshipper, which is better than nothing I suppose.
Thx God, for Christ age is not a matter.
Do most monasteries have libraries with religious, theological, and philosophical books? Or can you bring books if you become a monastic? I love to read.
They usually do have libraries, yes. What you read when you become a monastic is usually prescribed by your spiritual father in the monastery...
Very interesting. Do they have any place for sisters in Christ near by?
Roosh could become an excellent monk IMHO
I think so too
I can't. Im married. But I love monks
What is a prayer rule?
Robert Waguespack a prayer rule is given to you by your spiritual father-it defines the limits of your prayers
@@rasimoo999 Is that an individual rule that pertains only to that individual monk or is it the rule of prayer of the monastery
@@robertwaguespack9414 Since each monk (or nun) is an individual with unique strengths and weaknesses, the Abbott (or Abbess) gives a unique prayer rule to each monk or nun that is tailored to give them a good "spiritual workout" but to ultimately help them succeed in the monastic life.
Please Realize There are always exceptions. And the even people you Father may not find desirable..well with your love and trust in the Holy Spirit you may find the Lord Himself has called them. Being different or living according to intense Listening is not always a lack of discipline. There is far more to God than we are able to see and no His Ways are certainly not our ways!
I'd be really interested in what prayer rule Abbot Seraphim assigns to men who are considering religious life.
There, most likely, isn't one rule he gives. Just as a doctor gives different therapies to different patients, so too do spiritual fathers give different prayer rules to novices. One man might become more tired after 30 prostrations, than another man, after 300.
That makes sense. Thank you. @@John-Svanlund
If you are a convert can you join the monastery in order to become a monk inmediately once you have been chrismated? That is, if you have things clear.
That would be up to the abbot...but 99.9% of the time the answer is likely to be no. It takes a long time to truly understand Orthodoxy...and most people aren't ready to make this kind of commitment that early in their journey.
Many fathers suggest a time between 5 years and 7 years post-reception into the church.
It depends on the father or mother of the monastery and your spiritual father. It is a hard wait but doable, I know this from experience as I am getting close to the jump myself.
A good guide in this is at Theophan the Recluse especially his text 'The Spiritual Life', also a prayer rule from your own spiritual father or catechist since building a foundation of prayer is essential.
how would someone compare this to living in lets say the Bruderhof or Twelve Tribes community? Do people living in monastic communities consider those who refuse to give up everything as we read about in Luke 14.26 or Matthew 19 as being "saved"or even disciples? Was not the early church communal and designed to be? We read about this in the book of Acts 2.44. I was offered a chance to give up everything to live and be baptised in the Twelve Tribes community but due to a bad feeling and the controlling aspects I eventually decided against it. I probably would not be a good fit as I did not look beyond the "bad stuff:" I guess my question is if you can look at your fellow orthodox who have not relinquished the world and tell them they are saved? It doesnt make sense.
Forgive me, brother, but Orthodox don't judge the salvation of others...God is the Judge, and we are not to judge...
Suppose you dropped out of school, avoided parties, drugs, etc. And spent all your time in solitude studying Religion, The Humanities and Social Sciences. Would you technically not already be a monk?
Though there are two kinds of monks, one of which is more similar to what you describe (hermit/anchorite), even they aren't living without a spiritual father, under whom they must be until they bury him, and who guides them in their efforts. The emphasis is always on the Church, since it's regarded as a human-divine vessel through which people are saved, it is the Mother to those to whom God is the Father, and similar to how thinking you can win without God it's thought as a mistake of pride to think you can be saved outside the Church. I'm not trying to attack you or the life you talked about, I'm just trying to answer your question from the perspective of Orthodoxy. Surely you can live in the World and still strive in spiritual struggle, it's actually said that there isn't a 'double standard' of what's expected of a monk vs a layman, they both should be in prayer all their days. But to summarize and shortly answer your question, no, you wouldn't be a monk in Eastern Orthodox terms.
How young do you have to be to join?im 13 male
I would suggest you continue to stay in the world a bit more, until you make a decision.
PS: I am also moved by Thorfinn's way of life in season 2
99% of Orthodox monasteries won't accept people under 18 even with parents permission and BTW in this video he said he would not have anyone 16 or 15 be monks
What is an obedience?
Robert Waguespack an obediance is doing what your spiritual father tells you to do.
@@rasimoo999 Is that distinct from obedience to the abbot?
Robert Waguespack not necessarily if the abbot is your spiritual father that would be the same. Obedience also. Means to be obedient to your monastic community,, to be obedient to the Holy Scriptures and the life of the church.
So is that like who will wash the dishes who will take out the trash etc...?
â@flavianstuparu
Yes an obedience is what you said I would just add that in small communities each member might have two or three obedience and be expected to help out with big tasks when they happen.
Obedience may relate to trades learned in the world before entering but also physical strength, age and aptitude. It can very a lot between communities and the spiritual aspect is not neglected as for some monastics pride or vaine glory can be a challenge.
24 male wisconsin. Startint cadecumen. Father gave me a prayer rule of 15 minutes 5 scripture 5 silence 5 prayer.
Iâm 58, can I come to see
You can certainly visit!
that place sounds like jail
Come and see.
The sweet yoke
Paradoxically, it's the opposite! It's where brave souls go to free themselves from the prison of the passions...
it frees you from worldly desires
@@ProtectingVeil So I am curious,,,raised a Baptist,,, so does the Monastery have a Congregation of Families coming to worship like we go to Church and Sunday school?..
I find it disheartening. Iâve felt a calling to monasticism but it seems in order to become a monk you must first be perfect.
I didn't get that from this video. I think what the abbot pointed out was someone's romantic idea that one creates from a distance is sometimes not satisfied with the reality of monasticism. What the abbot also pointed out is the desire of wanting to pray. By God's Grace I think everything is possible in life, but we must also accept God's will. I'll be praying for your discernment, Jason.
@@Zam0rak41 I appreciate your kind words, brother. However, isnât there background checks, financial correctness, mental health tests that eliminates many people? I have felt a calling for the Monastic life, however Iâm in my early 40âs and lived a secular life. Iâve since come to God and long to spend my days in worship. But youâre right, I must discern Godâs will for me. God Bless you, my friend.
@@jasonr6717 Why not look for a monastery that offers retreats and you can go visit once in a while and attend church with the monks