A350 vs 777X - The Qantas Project Sunrise Order
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
- When Qantas announced its ambition to offer nonstop ultra-long-haul flights between Melbourne, Sydney, and other east coast Australian cities and the likes of London and New York, it asked Airbus and Boeing to put forward their best aircraft. The A350 and 777X were proposed to the airline, and thus, an intense few years of weighing up options began. Eventually, the airline selected the A350-1000, but what led to this decision?
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Even with the delay, it’s entirely possible that these Project Sunrise flights takeoff before the 777x enters commercial service. Yeah, they made the right call
without a doubt they made the best choice the a350 is a safe bet because the 777x is not certified and at the slightest problem risks staying on the ground for a good while before production.... so I think it's a choice of reason and security.
b777x is superior, once it comes into commercial, it will have a great success.
@@prasenjittripura4691 if it flies one day !!!
@@prasenjittripura4691 by the time in comes into service it will be outdated.
Agreed. I fly the A350 and have flown the 777. The 777X will be superior in every aspect. Q has a proven record of selecting the wrong platform, except for maybe the 737/747/767 in the early days. I cannot fathom how no operators are flying the 777 in Aus since Virgin's departure.
@@rampy4963 you drive for boeing yet they only make crap planes !!!!
Given that Boeing has faltered on manufacuring and certifying brand new airliners, the state-of-the-art a350 is a solid and compelling option. This aircraft type has been proven to operate efficiently on long-haul trans-continental routes while the 777x has yet to be certified by the FAA. Increased oversight and scrutiny from regulators would undermine Boeing's production in the foreseeable future.
Absolutely they made the right choice.
A350 is only going to get better when RR bring out upgraded engines
Airbus is better managed and led at the moment so go for Airbus 350. Reassess in 15 years when Boeing has reinvented itself.
another key factor in selecting the A350 is transitioning pilots to the A350 from existing fleet won't be as difficult as it would the 777, correct me if i am wrong but the cockpit of the A350 isn't too different from that of the A330, certainly a lot similar than the 777
This shouldn’t have been a factor. Yes the A350 and A330 are similar (to the point where with EASA they share the same type rating), but it is the exact same situation with the B787 and B77X (they also share the same type rating, just like the 330 and 350)
Thanks for the content Dj!!
A35K performance & availability
At the time Airbus said the A351 could fulfil Project Sunrise requirements without modifications. I think it has more range[16,100 km] than the 777-9[7,285 nmi (13,500 km]. Any modifications to the fuel system of the A351 would therefore enhance its range.
Don’t forget that around the same time Qantas got a great deal on ~100 A320 family planes, which would have been a bargaining chip.
That order for A320 family aircraft is probably extremely valuable at this point in time. Airlines that have 737MAX orders must be getting very worried.
What's that? 👀
Could you please elaborate on this "bargaining chip"? 🤔
@@Adrenaline_chaser If Qantas were vacillating between A350 and 777x, Airbus chucking in a good deal on A320s too could swing the widebody deal their way. A320s are especially desirable, have been for a long time, and they're hard to get hold of. Airbus shaking loose some earlier production slots at good prices is one of their standard tactics to sweeten a wider deal.
And it's a good outcome for Qantas; the A320 family has become the one to have. Those airlines with a lot of B737MAX orders are getting nervous. Some airlines that have A320s on order are now making money by forsaking their early delivery slots in favour of United Airlines in the US. In the airline business, making money from aircraft that you've not yet received or even paid for is call a win! It's free money.
Eventually, Qantas will have about 1/5th their overall fleet being Boeing (26 B787s), and the rest being Airbus. That's going to make it very hard for Boeing to sell Qantas more aircraft. So yeah, Airbus doing a deal on A320 to win the Project Sunrise gig basically ensures that the biggest down-under operator is likely to be a loyal, happy customer for a very long time to come.
05:25 okay, seriously how can you claim the 777X is a good aircraft? Even if it is we know to little about it to make such a claim.
Smart choice. The 777x is still not certified and who knows when the first will be delivered.
May 2022: Qantas announces it has chosen the A350-1000ULR (Qantas calls them this) over the 777X or 787 to operate Project Sunrise services. The significant change since that announcement has been the delays in delivery, pushing back Project Sunrise to mid 2026 from late 2025.
The other news has been the seating, with Qantas saying the Sunrise A350s will have the least number of seats of any A350-1000 - 238. So much for claims from some that the A350-1000 was chosen because it would not be load restricted on the route. This is about two-thirds that of a regular A350-1000,
I would think less seating numbers isn't about payload issues, rather about offering more space for passengers on such a long trip.
@@ymml467 It Qantas was truly worried about comfort it would not have the 787-9s on the 17-hour Perth-London sector configured with 236 seats, only two less than the A350 which has a much bigger cabin. The A350-1000ULR have more premium seats than the 787-9 and fewer economy because Qantas has to recover the higher operating cost of the heavier A350 (70 tonnes at MTOW) with much the same number of passengers.
@davidcarter4247 Well remember project sunrise load factors won't be constantly high given that this is ultra long haul.
@@Tpr_1808 I was commenting on claims made in the past that the A350 was chosen because it was not payload restricted, unlike the 777X Boeing was offering.
If Qantas could get 350 people in the Sunrise A350 it would because that is what it has done with the 787 and A380 very long haul flights
@@davidcarter4247 Every aircraft is payload restricted. But the A350 is vetter in that regard compared to the 777X. But there is also just no variant on the market for the 777X that could manage that route.
777X will be certified when? Given the problems in other Boeing airplanes, how to ensure 777X quality meets its design requirements?
So how will project sunrise increase Qantas' competitiveness in an era of increasing passenger travel volume? How will major airports cope with a higher frequency of aircraft movements by smaller twinjets when they are already at capacity ? An A350 non stop service from London to Sydney will carry less than half the passengers of an A380. The 777 is slightly larger but still cannot carry as many people as a 747 or A380.
I Hope They Don't delay The Project Sunrise Launch from 2026!
MEL to LAX is my limit, fatigue is a real issue so no thanks, but that is just me.
The a350 is on par if not better in many ways (and for Qantas) plus it's certified, proven and yeah it has delivery delays but so does every aircraft. The 777-8 (the 9 isn't suitable) is set to be certified in 2028 meaning that Qantas could only get them in around 2030! The only other option is to use 777-200lr until then but it can't cut it. The A350-1000ULR was 100% the best option
The 777-8 is not even in any sort of production. I doubt it will exist before 2030
@@Sedna063 Yeah lol. And by the time they make Qantas modifications it’ll be 2035 AND THEN it’ll crash 😂
Fully agree. The ULR for the -1000 will come in the next 1.5 years into testing. But from there its not far as its only a small modification to the existing-1000 abd there is the experience with the -900 ULR
It all comes down to range travelled. The Airbus a350 has the range for Project Sunrise. The Boeing 777x has the capacity for Project Sunrise.
Sadly, Boeing 777x hasn’t been certified yet and their GE Gen9X turbofan engines haven’t logged any long haul test flights yet.
Dutch saying; better one bird in my hand then 10 in the sky.
So the better choice is one (or two?) A350-bird at hand then 10 triple 7's at the drawing board 😊.
The A350 is slightly larger, has a longer range and a slightly better fuel burn due to being a lighter design. The comparison here obviously is between the A35J and 778. The 779 doesn't have enough range to even be in the discussion. There really isn't a downside to choosing the A350.
I'm eargely waiting for Qantas to get their a350's so they can commence this route.
The A350-1000 ULR to be specific as the template for Qantas’ Project Sunrise
✈️
A350 best choice
How much will it cost to fly NY to Sydney?? Shoot if I need to ask, I can’t afford it. It’s ok. Need a stopover anyways. 19-20 hrs not for me. Big woop for Airbus and its selling of 4-6 planes. Airbus will make a killing, not!!!
They are not going to get their first a350 until 2027/28. What’s the point.
I hope that Airbus will get better their act together with project sunrise. It not only would help Qantas a lot.
What exactly are you referring to? Which act to they need to improve?
@@chiad25 Not to delay it even further. 😉
no competition.
The A350-1000 was the correct decision then and is even more correct now. Airbus has delivered three A350-1000s year-to-date while the B777X is still not certified. Despite Airbus's supply chain and labour issues, Boeing has similar problems plus a host of quality issues. Airbus wins.
Who knows if the 777X will ever be certified? The A350-1000 was the only possible choice.
The A350-1000 is a wonderful aircraft, and Qantas can readily use them on some of the A380 routes. However, the Boeing 777-9X would've filled the void pretty well enough had it not been delayed. Once it can start operating with the airlines, the 777-9X will be a true game-changing experience. So, with that said, Qantas will secure their airplane order with Boeing, but in the meantime they should use the A350-1000 airplane on some routes that can bring a profitable margin to the airline.
I don't see Qantas ordering the 777X to replace the A380s. They already announced that the A350-1000 would be used instead. I imagine that they might fly an A350 as well as a 787 instead of one A380/777X in which case capacity isn't an issue, it's more efficient, a simpler fleet choice and has the benefit of extra flight dates/times.
@@Plen3716they will do ultimately.. all long haul airliners will order b777x, this is game changing aircraft
@@prasenjittripura4691 Far from a game changer. Compared to A350-1000, 779 can carry 10% more passengers, but it is 16% heavier and 25% more expensive. Its range is 2500 km less than A350.
Fuel per seat mile will be similar for the two aircraft and purchase cost will be much higher for 779. For many routes it will be difficult to fill.
@@prasenjittripura4691it isn’t
You guys are forgetting that 777-9 doesnt even have the range to do a london - melbourne or sydney. The 777-9 has a range of 13500 km whereas A350-1000 has a range of 16000km. You atleast need 15000 km aircraft range for project sunrise. So even if 777-9 was certified, qantas would not pick it because it just doesnt have the range.
Aliens in jealous mode tarnishing High quality Boeing,777x is a real horze plane,capable of everything exciting.
A fundamentally misguided concept, that passengers will want to be strapped into anyone's aircraft for so long. Perhaps they will succeed in helping Boom to restore demand for supersonic travel, which could only be described as poetic justice.
It was about money
Oh please the Qantas board was offered numerous “site tours” in south France near the champagne and French Rivera.
Who on earth would choice rainy Seattle or down town Carolina vs going to France as an executive.
Qantas should force a re-tender this plane. The former CEO was fired for a number of very very questionable business practices.
Qantas is covering itself for numerous sliding door moments when it should have chosen the 777-300 and didn’t.
Qantas has not choice but to use the 777x and to replace the capability of a retiring a380 and 747
With almost ALL one world partners and emirate going with the 777x to replace the a380, Qantas will decimate shareholder value if they going with any other plane.
Well this is a no brainer Airbus is by far a safer and better option Airbus has its act together but Boeing is lost never to return again so hats 🧢 off to Airbus 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Everyone dogging on Boeing. 😢
Enough already of the same stories!
I like the “if you’re NEW to the channel, hit that button (subscribe)” and not “if you enjoy my content...”. You do good work and put a lot of effort into your videos, but your constant demand for subscribers is off putting. It will happen. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Quantas would have chosen the 777X if it was available. They can't wait for it though.
There's no u in Qantas. And if they wanted the B777X, then they would have ordered it years ago. Therefore U are wrong on both counts........
@@artrandy The 777X isn't certified so it will be years before it is available, so no, they won't order it. So you are wrong and obviously can't read.
@@davemiller6055 not sure this is for me bro...........
@@artrandy Oh, it is. read your reply to me.
I cant work out how you can say Qantas would have done this or that,are you on the board of Qantas or is it just a fanboy thought bubble?
First!
Nothing new...
The A350-1000 will ultimately prove to be a more expensive choice because of the very low "time on wing" of their engines.
That “time on wing” remark was nothing but Tim Clark’s attempt to lower the “money on aircraft” they’re spending on the A350s they ordered.
I don't mean to be argumentative but, that wasn't a remark, it is a fact.
@@merrillkingston8807apperantly only within hot sandy climate.
@@merrillkingston8807
Its a negotiating tactic. And its about Emirates objecting to the price of the RR Total Care maintenance package for the XWB-97, which is an uprated version of its sister engine, and therefore expected to be more high maintenance. When introduced, it was cutting edge tech, and is expected to be upgraded by 2027, when Boeing and GE should be very afraid that it steals a further advantage over the B777X, an aircraft currently with zero in service flight hours. No one yet knows what teething troubles this aircraft might have, and certainly how the GE9X will behave in hot, dusty conditions. Its an unknown quantity, whereas the A350-1000 is not. The B777X also has an aluminium hull, and after witnessing the JALs A350 carbon composite hull giving so much time for passengers to get out in a catastrophic fire, Im predicting its now all over for aircraft built like a Tin Goose.............
No one knows how well the GE engines on the 777x will perform in service. There’s also the risk that the 777x has got heavier since the failed wing limit test failure. It might not be able to fly far enough for Sunrise after all.
RR has a dev program in progress to improve the time on wing of the XWB-97, though the biggest problems arises from operations in the Middle East (dust). Project Sunrise will be flying past, so it won’t have to chance the dusty conditions.
.
I don't know why you prefer Boeing I have seen you always Boeing the best let me tell you I was big Boeing fan I was 727 the best but I see you always talking bat about Airbus
He is a boeing fanboy. We all know that. He is speaking of boeings issues like being totally negligible.
Well, at this point, your rather biased. Opinion of boeing has proved that even airbus can't deliver
Boeing's "management" (and I use that word sarcastically) did yet another documented cost-cutting move -- this time with the 777-X -- to NOT increase the wing size for its "1000" variant (same exact wing used on all three variants). That decision is what's kept ITS range nearly 1,000 miles shorter than the A350-1000. So, via Wall Street / bean-counter "money games" versus EITHER engineering OR marketing sense -- once more is biting Boeing in its (sadly very stupid) ass.
FIRST…I want to be pinned. My daughter said that.
777x will be more capable in the end.
777-8 Range 16 170 kms (8732 nm) , Passengers 384 , MTOW 351534 Kgs
A3550 Range 18000 kms (9720 nm) , Passengers 315 , MTOW 280000 Kgs
The A350 is lighter , burns less fuel and out ranges the 777-8. Further more is a model already in service with 4million flight hours under its belt. ie proven technology. The 777-8 may not be available till 2029. If boeing continues with it profits before safety mantra it may not turn well for the 777-8 whose orders are miniscle compared to the 777-9.
@@ricky1231
And that's before the announcement by RR for uprating the engines, due about 2027, & starting with the XWB-97. Whether UltraFan technology is used for an A350neo by the end of the decade, is another threat to the success of the B777X.......