Why Woke Characters SUCK | Asmongold Reacts
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2023
- Why nobody likes woke characters.
by @EndymionTv • Why Nobody Likes Woke ...
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"so tell me about your character?"
"shes interracial"
"okay..whats her story?"
"Shes woman"
"...okay...whats her motivation?"
"Shes a lesbian"
yep. that's why it doesn't matter if "all" that the woke propaganda in a film is is a female character or a black character - if the reason for that female or black or whatever character's inclusion is purely based on ideology? the audience knows it, and feels it.
Exactly. 😂😂
Exactly this. They've replaced ideas with petty details.
She's perfect for a porn parody
im learning about writing, reading this made me laugh choking on my water
The simple reason is they aren't characters, they are merely self inserts and vehicles for the writers personal issues.
like Velma
No way, are artists using their stories to work out their personal issues? What a crazy, new idea
Yup. Also it's funny when feminists try to create a "Strong Female Character" by making all the male characters worse at the female in like every aspect. By making the male characters worse, you're basically saying that men have to be terrible in order for women to be better than them. Which goes completely against the original idea behind feminism lol. The best shows with strong female character DO NOT basically "nerf" the male characters in order for the female characters to look good.
^
Facts.
if woke writers created a D&D character sheet for their characters, all you would see filled in is appearance and minor details about their ethnicity/sexuality. the entire bio section meant to explain their backstory, personality and motivations would be completely blank.
This is what's been happening to Magic: The Gathering in the last 5 years. All the good guys lorewise are black they/them queers and all the bad guys are generic european males.
@@drowseefloof Are you for real? I haven't played since 2015. Has it gone that far down hill? Jeez. Guess I won't be coming back.
@drowseefloof for MTG I don't care about the story just stop f-ing up my game with power creep and over printing
It's the same in the roleplaying community. Been overtaken by woke weirdos.
Personality: LGBTQ+
Asmongold is missing the fact that people can relate to characters based on their struggles. They don’t need them to look like them or be short and fat.
Yes, but you can have both even seperate, you can have a good ethnic character you don't necessarily relate to other than skin or nationality or a different character with completely different genealogy with relatable problems.
That's why 'literally me' as a concept exists, it's not just Ryan Gosling meme, but also character relations with certain personal experience.
Is true. I watch quite a bit of Korean stuff and you know how many times I've sat there and been like "damn this would be so much better if there were more white people in it"..... Never!
These people think like that all the time.
Disney admits the woke agenda to ruin star wars. Amonsgold I do not think it has anything to do with it being woke.......
Exactly the issue here is that those characters have no struggles appart from being a minority with a particular sexuality, and most of them have the same cocky and condecending attitude, it's so lame and boring.
The thing with Rey is that the criticism always was mainly about her being a bad character with bad writing. It was her defenders who insisted on her being a woman to be the main talking point.
Because thats the only thing they see. They see a woman and that should automatically make her the bestest ever. And thats also what you see in the movie.
And ever since the Last Jedi all form of Star Wars entertainment went to the woke
They want to replace Luke with her. To give his role to her.
It would be okay if she was his successor, if Luke established the New Jedi Order, and she succeeded him as the leader or something, but him failing and her establishing the New Jedi order is an insult. I certainly won't be watching any of their movies as long as Rey the usurper remains. The only way to redeem themselves is to have Luke's New Jedi Order survive and be rediscovered by Rey.
Try asking them "If Rey was a man you think we'd let her trample on our hero's legacy?" Most don't even reply and those that do start it with the standard, you're just saying that cause she's a woman.
Yes, I was excited for a female Jedi as main character. The story blew chunks.
Fans didn't ruin diversity in entertainment. The writers/producers did, then gaslighted the fans.
and they appeal to the woke blue haired fans
@@VB-bs6wm who, most likely, won’t even consume what the writers pandering to them made 😂
They make (let’s be real) shit for people who just don’t care. Star Wars, new LotR stuff, comics, games…
@@VB-bs6wm Fortunately, they're in the minority and that's why these woke craps keep flopping
@@VB-bs6wm no...they dont...not that you could even describe who those people are they are simply marketing towards a fanbase they dont yet have while supporting something they support for monetary gain not beliefs (and specifically disney just plays both sides)
@@zenmkultra you dont even know who they are
My husband and I struggled with Castlevania: Nocturne for numerous reasons, but ultimately gave up on it because of Annette. Her backstory was compelling, but she was COMPLETELY changed from how she is in the games, originally being a pale-skinned blonde girl with a very different origin story. The show changed her race, origin, personality, and storyline - only keeping her name. They should have just renamed her and made her a completely new character. Yes, Isaac had been changed from the source material in the original show, but he was also significantly less annoying, his introduction and story well paced. We learned everything we needed to know about Annette in a single episode dedicated solely to her being sad and monologuing about a dead guy who never mattered in the first place.
I have the same opinion. I watched the show with my gf, and it was such of a downgrade from OG show. Everyone was saying that ep 6 is awesome, but all it was, just a default anime cliché "im about to die, but now i remember that thing from my past and also i have secret ability".
The dishonest denial of the erasure of a characters identity is what kills everyone. If they wanted to make a new character they would, after all the dramatic changes made it only takes the last step of giving them a new name and nobody will be mad. This isn’t the point of their erasure tho. It’s about vandalism and disrespect not innovation and “inclusion”.
What kind of person was Annette?
I’ve never seen the original castlevania.
@@Sparkofhope621 just like what they did with the OG trap from the 90s, with decades of lore supporting him, Bridget. Even japanese fans still call him an otokonoko but fighting game devs love to pander bc all they care about is money and tournament rules. Instead of making a new diverse character they bastardize existing ones bc they KNOW that NO ONE would like them since these ppl who push it can't write for shit
Pretty much, yes... though I'm not even knowledgeable in the Castlevania lore, so I didn't even know that. Their reasoning, if you can call it that, is always "But back then all characters were blonde whites!!!!", which simply isn't even true.
I liked the first Castlevania animated series, Nocturne just feels annoying ... they did a better job with the black vampire, whose name I forgot, sorry, but then his story turned completely ridiculous as well when he had his fling with a god-damn templar!!! Just doesn't really make any sense.
Annette on the other hand just doesn't have any characterization to begin with. She's just hateful.
Creed was his own character with his own story. He wasn't reduced to just "black Rocky", even though their were parallels Creed was a story about a man striving for greatness through self improvement. Skin color doesn't matter and they didn't focus on it.
yeah , like miles morales too, miles doesnt even give a damn about skin color, he is spiderman not because he is black, but he is responsible of the action he take, yes i know the race does give vibe to their differences between miles and peter , its not about miles being black, but a story about the confidence, unselfishness and keep going... that was curse of becoming a spiderman
@@ceiii7190the difference is he is called Creed and not Rocky.
Imagine making a character after yourself and being told they suck.
No wonder these people are mad all the time, they're realizing that everyone hates them
Yup
Shall I make myself the new batman???
@@Birdhatter how do you know I'm racist? I am but how did you know?
@@based-ys9umHe's severely schizophrenic and can sense people's emotions and ideals through their screens.
@@based-ys9um real recognizes real
Toph Beifong is the absolute gold standard of all diversity characters that all other examples should strive for. While she is female, Asian, and blind, these aren't nearly as much of her identity as her being a smart talking badass. She does bring up her blindness pretty often, but mostly only when it's genuinely an issue for her, as she's so competent in every other regard that people tend to forget that for whenever it does present an issue.
The stars are pretty tonight. Too bad you can’t see them
@@versecontro4898 "Hey loook, Appa!" *waves before eyes*
Help! Help! I can't swim!
Aren't the whole gang Asian?
@@Web720 everyone there is Asian if I remember correctly. Water tribes look like Eskimo, earth and fire nations are Japan and China(dunno who's who tho) and air nation is based on Tibet.
I think the difference between what guys like Ditko and Kirby did with Spider-Man and The Thing and what modern writers do is that they would base the characters on their actual selfs and experiences but would treat the characters as a son. Modern writers write like it’s a revenge fantasy starting off explaining why the world is wrong and hates them and by the end they have powers because they are them and they needed to do to be happy show how they were the best all along. I’m actually surprised we haven’t gotten a random girl picking up Thor’s hammer “only she can determine her worth” or some other self aggrandizing nonsense.
Probably, what would happen, is a bunch of random teenage girls on the street would unknowingly toss Thor's Hammer back and forth among all of them, no problem. Because "all women are inherently worthy without any character growth or accountability".
This is Actually a great explanation. 😂
A couple of other things people like ditko and kirby did that made their self inserts better:
1. They knew when to separate the character from themselves for the betterment if the character/story.
2. They weren't afraid to incorporate character flaws and also left room for character growth.
I recently rewatched Pirates of the Carribean and I was ASTONISHED by the presentation of Elisabeth Swan in the original trilogy.
She's much smarter than pretty much everybody else, often tricking and playing other people to gain leverage, and on top of that she's just as (and sometimes more) competent in a fight as other characters. But she has flaws, namely she often makes illogical decisions due to emotional factors or lack of information, and has difficulty inspiring authority until the last movie.
Literally one of the best written female characters in fiction. Literally all Hollywood has to do is write characters like that.
Yeah, that’s how you write a female badass.
That’s the problem now a days is the writing of these female characters isn’t there. If you go back before 2010s females were written well, examples are ripely, Sarah connor, the chick from the underworld movies. Hell you can put black widow up there her background her story was actually good being a turned agent for hood and sacrificed herself to help get the stone, and when she died everyone felt it. You can put niteri from avatar there too, strong female character protects her family and fights along side Jake for her family
@@Thisguy2532
Nah, the problem nowadays is that a ton of people are making videos complaining about the worst female characters and people like you act like these're the only ones made nowadays. That's annoying, learn to search for good movies.
All new movies are shit. People are complaining because all hollywood puts out now is steaming hot garbage. @@starhalv2427
Nah man, you've got rose-colored glasses on. Elizabeth was such a Mary Sue that even as a little girl I was rolling my eyes. All her "badassery" felt forced af.
Being "woke" Isn't just being supportive of minorities or women, it's using things like race and gender to shield themselves from criticism. And using it as an excuse to be bigoted towards people you disagree with
I just think that people who make this type of claims.
They just need to back that up without sounding like a bigot
@@HeoBaby24 What a whole lot of nothing
It's all about entitlement, victimhood, being the bully/aggressor while simulteanously playing the victim, hypocrisy, gaslighting, insecurity, etc
idk many shows that do this tho
Rings of power, Ghostbusters 2016, Harley Quinn movie, Foundation, The Sandman, Star Wars, Dungeons and Dragons, MCU, Velma etc.
You been asleep?@@gtab1700
I think when gender and sexuality becomes a problem with characters is when they’re so flat that their personality becomes that trait. Like they can’t go five minutes without them announcing it because that’s all there is to the character.
Woke is not any trait in particular. Its a specific reason *why* a character or script turns out bad.
@@brilobox2 Yes!
That's honestly usually because the person writing is not familiar with how to write an entire story about someone with an experience in life different than theirs.
The diversity can't just be on screen.
Y'know a lot of people were angry that Jon Casdan got writing credits with Lucas Film, people said it's peak Nepotism
Which is it
But I watched Willow and Jon actually managed to write diverse characters well. Larry Casdan though, I don't think he can.
Hollywood has many people with Talent who are diverse. Disney often has a checklist and they hire one to make "their" movie as opposed to hire a talent to make a movie.
They're notoriously rigid, and you have to have serious good will with them in order to "be allowed" to step out of their comfort zone.
WB, while looks like a total trainwreck (lol!) definitely treat their hired talent like adults. There's more creative freedom given... But of course that comes at a price. Not every movie makes a gazillion dollars...
So you're either on the rails all the time (Disney) but have no way of moving outside of the track, or you're freely roaming but get into RTAs sometimes.
And this could have the "This is not about comic book characters" comment after, because people in real life do this and it's sad.
@@GameplayzOfficial Sadly yes, lol.
Because Ridley was a badass survivor, Wonder Woman's backstory was supposed to be her distrust against men, but Rey... the only thing I've seen that makes her a problem is that she's doing so much so fast, she didn't need a master unlike luke or ahsoka but somehow she still succeeds in some reason
The reason that the woke mentality forces bad writing is because of the rules of it. For example you cannot show a woman as weak or in distress because thats bad. But those things are also an endemic part of the heroes journey. Wokeness holds back important aspects to storytelling and drama by design, making bad writing a feature not a bug in wokeness. It applies artifical rules that hold back writers and the creative process. Rather than focusing on what makes a compelling story the concern is about toeing the line of rapidly changing rules that have nothing to do with actually writing a good story.
"For example you cannot show a woman as weak or in distress because thats bad. But those things are also an endemic part of the heroes journey." And that also ignores reality. Serena Williams got smoked 6-0 6-1 by the 200th or so ranked man. Women's soccer gets obliterated by teenage boys, world over, if they have exhibition games against 14 year olds. The best female fighters going up against the worst male pro-level fighter... he takes it easy. The very best women do have a shot of beating average guys at sports those guys don't play... but that's it, and most women can't fight off a mugger. It's just reality, and people are speaking up now.
FACTS!
@@RealYRM just make ‘em use guns, and say there trained
Boom I fixed the power gap issue, that or supernatural powers work too
Woke or no, they really did Finn dirty. That first film starts off with his story and it's an interesting new angle we haven't seen before and he has so much potential for character growth but they sideline him immediately for Rey :(
Yup
As a very casual Star Wars observer and my family finally making me watch TFA, I yelled at them "Are you serious? This is EXACTLY like ANH!"
Even if they didn't there's also the immediate drop of storm troopers. We just saw from Finn that they're mostly indoctrinated children, but immediately after that Finn is gunning them down by the dozens and having fun. The minute Finn's helmet comes off anyone wearing one just becomes a faceless mook that you don't need to care about, despite establishing that some, if not all, could eventually question their allegiances and switch sides.
Isnt star wars anyway. It is disneywars
He should’ve been the hero
Having Luke attempt to murder his own conflicted nephew was insane. After it's already been established that he was willing to die to redeem the second most evil man in the universe. It's like it was done purposefully just to stir shit up among fans. Can't believe that's part of the story arc now and you can see why Mark Hamill just shit on the movie nonstop. Absolutely butchered a great character that I'm sure meant a lot to him.
@@BlackrockVanguardGhoul😂😂😂
@@BlackrockVanguardGhoulgoddamnit why put it that way 😂
Funny thing is, people will try to defend it. "Well, Luke is a flawed character; he wasn't thinking right"
Okay, yeah; Luke IS flawed. But he's not a fucking psycho. It's just straight up bad writing. Luke absolutely would not do that
"I saw darkness in his mind..."
But *specifically,* what did you see? That line is way too vague. There's a time to be a cryptic and a time to be straightforward
It wasn't a passing of the torch, but a torching of the past.
When I finished episode 7 I was like "hell yeah, I'd love to see exactly how the exalted Luke Skywalker handles a crisis of conscience after redeeming even the most evil man in the galaxy. What horrors could have caused this?"
And within the first 30 seconds of The Last Jedi, homeboy casts away the lightsaber that endured through the entire saga was the precedent that defined the entire rest of the saga; many moral and ethical questions that could rightfully be asked through the story but handled with such disregard and vapidity that it ultimately undermines its own coherence in the process. It's exactly how NOT to do a subversive deconstruction of any story, let alone one with an established logic like Star Wars
The problem isn’t the storytelling, the problem isn’t the woke characters, the problem isn’t the women.
It’s the woke writers telling the stories who are all women.
They’re the problem.
You can’t say Deadpool dating a non-binary character isn’t a big deal, sure in isolation I agree. But it’s every fucking marvel character now, it’s every comic book, movie, show, video game, etc.
I love how AG contradicts himself within 30 seconds of the video starting lol😂
Short fat girls don't deserve their own thing because a bunch of Twitter accounts said they do. That's the problem here. Tweets don't equal purchases. If they really liked the product they would take it for what it is and what made it popular, not demanding changes in outrage posts.
100% agreed. Problem isn't the characters. The problem is that the sort of writers and producers constantly worried about being politically correct naturally ends up creating a terrible product.
Well rey learning everything in 3 minutes while the jedi train for years and years since a young age -> mary sue -> isnt about political correct but is extreme wokeness
It’s funny how so many want to blame bad writing on some “agenda”. The fact is bad writing is bad. There are a ton of shows and movies that we could call woke but don’t because they are good.
@@greyjedi1272Not true. The Batman was both woke and political, I still gave it like a solid 8.0
@@greyjedi1272here’s some food for thought. Wokeness is the problem in the sense that it is a useless ideology when it comes to hiring talent. If you prefer to hire writers just seeking to be activists rather than writers who actually want to write good and enjoyable content for a living, than of course it’ll be bad. You can still be woke & left-wing and be a serious writer, but you cant be a woke activist and be a serious writer at the same time.
Like your entire reason for applying to be a screenwriter for any company cannot be for politics. If so, you’d get fired anywhere else for how bad you screwed up.
@@PWNINSWAGMASTER I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. There is a lot of media that would fall under what a lot of people call woke. But the people that seem to call everything woke or make a living off of calling everything woke won't do it. The Avatar cartoon was amazingly woke but there hasn't been one person from the "go woke go broke" crew doing that because they would get roasted by it's fans. A lot of right wingers see "woke" media as bad by definition, so they will never give credit.
Another thing that's becoming noticible is that many of these new characters inserted into the legacies of previous characters usually come from places of extreme spite for the source material and customers.
This is the main thing. IF you think the franchise was sleeping and you need to wake it up, you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the script.
Exactly that. Reminds me of Stan Lee making comments about Iron Man, that half the reason he was made to be a multi-billionaire was because the audience hated billionaires in general in reality, or they were always used as villains, and thus they were challenging themselves to make a character people liked in that kind of setting. The other half of the reason was to have a logical reason he could financially back the actual creation of his armor and gadgets.
So then when Riri was introduced as Ironheart, it's pretty obvious the writer(s) involved gave her the background she had, being broke and growing up in a bad neighborhood, was to push their irrational belief that she was in the right for basically stealing Tony's legacy.
It wasn't enough that Rey and Finn could have their own adventure, Han and Luke also had to be broken down and killed. And the aggressive stance these companies have against their own straight white male audiences who don't like the direction they're going in is very telling.
Some of my favorite piece of litterature I've read were self-inserts, the kind where the author is literally isekaied. The authors were just very aware of themselves, their flaws, their strengths... So essentially they're just another character with the plot point of being completely out of their element. And as someone who loves reading about cultures clash, "fish out of water" scenario, and outside context problems, those kind of self-insert are basically the only place I can consistently read what I like.
The overwhelming majority of self-insert are still shit though, but Disney and their pals can't argue that they can't afford someone who knows what they're doing. They just don't care : make movie, name it "Star Wars", and make profit is what they thought, and it turns out they were right.
"I am not Starfire" is a character assassination of Starfire and Dick Grayson. No way those two would raise a daughter like that, because only bad people can raise bad people, and Mandy is a bad person.
I disagree a lot with your last statement, but your analysis is correct
@@l-nolazck-rn24it's true though, I'm a shitty person and my parents were shitty
@@Jiub_SN It's on you to continue with it or follow in their steps.
My father and the paramilitary group he was a member of erasd a gpsy community back in the 90's, but you don't see me aligned with extremists movements, not anymore at least.
And his father wasn't like him or as bad as he was either.
Neither did my mother took after my grandfather though I didn't knew her for long.
So, still flawed.
That actually could've been interesting. If Rey embraced the last name of Palpatine and used it to rebuild the Jedi Order. Showed that bloodlines don't always have to make you follow certain paths. She can rise above the sinister past of the Emperor.
But they were too focused on destroying whatever was left. Calling herself Skywalker was just weird.
Her Palatine bloodline wouldn't matter since she was a human. Palpatine wasn't a Korriban Sith.
@@userjo - the Korriban Sith were pretty much extinct by the end of the Sith Wars.
I do have a sneaking suspicion that she took the Skywalker name because she was pregnant.
Watch the scene of Ben resurrecting her. He places his hand on her stomach and when she revives the first thing she does is put her hand over his on her belly. She does this before raising her head or opening her eyes to look at him. And moments earlier Ben had been cradling her body in his hands in a way that he could easily have revived her by touching hsr face while holding her: he has to specifically let her slip back down to touch her stomach.
And the loving couple touching the woman's pregnant belly is such a well.worn image now that it's become.visual shorthand.
The implication of that and taking the Skywalker name is that she is continuing the Skywalker bloodline through Ben's offspring.
@BANKSHIMSELF I was going to explain that the point was more about accepting her past and rising above it instead of the literal bloodline.
But instead I'm going to call you a nerd and call it a day.
I dont think anyone could take this story seriously the whole palpatine reincarnation should be retconned
Kathleen: "The force is female!"
Asmon: "Yeah, I don't think this has anything to do with being woke."
So being female is woke?
When they say the force is female they mean it as feminist propaganda so yeah it is woke as hell, Star wars is full of leftist propaganda which is what woke is.
@HorkBork M the force is a supernatural entity that exists and controls the fabric of the entire universe. It doesn't have a fucking gender you clown. So yes, calling that a female is certainly woke.
@@hihihi1q23 No... it's that putting identity and gender politics in a setting that really has nothing to do with it or those topics that relate to our own world. Just this one statement is transposing our own politics onto a "galaxy far far away".
It has nothing to do with being female, just tell a good story with good characters. Hire good writers and have people at the helm that don't want to beat you over the head with their own worldview who also respect where the IP came from
Only reason why asmon acts like he doesnt get the problem is because he knows the twitch ban hammer will hit him instantly and articles will be written about him. Thats why most twitch people act like they dont care but they 100% understand the problem
A character originally written as black is not wokeness but a character originally white and turned into another race is wokeness.
I can't believe you said you don't know Starfire, she was one of my favorite characters when i was a kid. She's an alien species from the DC universe & she had a thing with one of the Robins that later grows to become Night Wing. She's was from a warrior/Barbarian race & Dick Grayson was from a family of Acrobats. How they would have an overweight grumpy child? Dick was the the heart of the Robins & Starfire was one of the gentlest characters.
I'm sure an AI can write a more compelling character than any of these soulless corporations.
I'm sure an AI can write a more compelling character than any of these soulless corporations.
Man you are in every video HOLY
@@okultism I'm sure an AI can write a more compelling character than any of these soulless corporations.
@@bhutehole How do you know that?
Reply Chad turtle
I think the biggest problem to come with "woke" culture, is that they're inserting into pre-existing IP's instead of making their own stories. Just a few recent examples include The Witcher, Halo, Velma, Star Wars, Marvel, and Rings of Power. Writers should be held accountable when they take a crap upon existing worlds and have the arrogance to think their story is better. Then the audience is blamed when the show or movie does terrible and has negative reviews.
Notice a trend here? Leftists know that attaching their activism and ideology to their own creations wouldn't sell "the message" on its own merit. So they rely on going after established IP's that already have a built in long term support base and hijacking them to spread "the message" more effectively. They need constant validation because they know what they're advocating isn't as widely embraced as they like to believe it is. Social justice is only really embraced at an elite corporate level, not a grounded level.
Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.
-attributed to JRR Tolkien
We as the audience were already tired of reboots and reimaginings. Then for them to hijack these ip’s to bank off of nostalgia while also using these beloved characters to be sjws, we’re just witnesses the bubble burst. I can already see traditional Christian values becoming the rebellion against the machine in the next decade and will eventually become the norm afterwards until degeneracy is applauded again as the counter culture. It’s literally the quote “strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak mean create hard times, hard times create strong men.” playing out in real time.
Yeah, hearing Asmongold saying writers doing self inserts is OK is eyerolling. I don't spend my time wanting to know the life of the writers, otherwise it should be called their memoir. HBO execs told Mindy K yes to a Scooby-Doo show but without the dog and let her go insane on it. It's so disgenuos by the execs and Mindy to bastardize that property. All of these franchises would not exist if it weren't for the already existing franchises' fanbase and established lores, go make a new IP for crying out loud then!
they do make their own stuff from time to time but most of it is so bad it gets no fandom and falls into obscurity. so instead they corrupt what they can to force their views into peoples faces
Self inserts are a problem when they replace established characters. If you want to make a character and story for a specific group of people then do that, don't hijack beloved characters and stories.
It DOES have to do with being woke though. There's a literal checklist that Disney uses to produce these "strong, female characters" and it includes removing literally every aspect of what makes a character compelling, along with several other diversity and feminist pillars: there _has_ to (even at the expense of the talent and quality of the production) an even distribution of racial and gender-based characters (except for white people; there can be little to none of those), majority of men in the female-led movies are depicted as wholly incompetent, evil, and/or inept, the female characters cannot be saved by men, they can't have learned anything or have anything explained or mansplained to them (which is so sexist it's laughable), female characters cannot have any perceived weaknesses or significant struggles, it's perfectly acceptable and even encouraged for female characters to demean or diminish their male counterparts for the sake of propping up the female characters, female characters must be stoic, strong and essentially adopt all the "toxic" masculine characteristics they're absolutely against depicting in men, love and motherhood is seen as "weak" and unimportant compared to being a leader and business/political-related accomplishments, etc.
Go through anything female-led produced in the last 5+ years, especially from Disney: you'll not have to look hard to find these attributes. And it doesn't need to be that way in order to have great, "strong" female characters. As you pointed out, Ellen Ripley from Aliens, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Trinity from Matrix, Sarah Connor from Terminator, Zeo and River from Firefly, and even Catniss from Hunger Games: all of them strong, all of them with weakness or struggle to overcome, all of them embrace the concept of love and family, etc. You'll practically never find that in modern movies especially from the likes of Disney. That's seen as weak, unimportant and "outdated". It's ridiculous. Clearly evident more than ever by the likes of Rachel Zegler in her Snow White interviews: THAT'S the real motivation and philosophy behind many studios like Disney now. They're selling a message, not relatable and timeless stories. It's going to be the subject of their own demise, and they absolutely deserve it.
The bride from Kill Bill has always been one of my favorite characters and I'm a guy. I never once thought of her as a "strong female character". I always just thought she was badass and likeable.
Cause El is in fact a fucking bad ass lol My fave scene is still her moving her little toe idfk why but that scene cracks me up everytime im fucking weird
@@Mstrskeletor89 Nah it's just a great scene :)
Because she was written to be a real human being. lmao
She has struggles to overcome, she isn't perfect at everything and slapping people so hard they fly across the room.. It's realistic in how she might use her environment or other things to her advantage because she, as a smaller person, lacks the raw brute strength of an "Arnold" figure 🤷♂️
@@Mstrskeletor89 Tarantino has a thing for feet, makes it even funnier.
From Software also does “strong female characters” right
I find it hard to believe that Starfire. One of thee most caring and compassionate super hero would allow her daughter be what is depicted in "I'm not Starfire."
Starfire would defiantly give her daughter emotional and social support.
Yeah, and it is very weird for beautiful people to have ugly children. Ugly children usually come from ugly parents. It can happen, but it is highly unlikely.
Most of the hate I saw was how awful of a person the daughter was. Starfire was trying to give her daughter emotional and social support. However her daughter will not have any of it. On top of that she slut shames Starfire and is upset that her single mother is dating.
Andor is an excellent example of a show with a good political message conveyed through great writing. No one is complaining that there were a lot of “woke” concepts in it because it was extremely well made and well written.
We stopped complaining and just stopped watching it's why trash shows like Andor got bad ratings.
@@voltron8375 yes Andor is an excellent example of a show where people just gave up rather than complain, so theres less of a debate over a show people prefer to simply forget.
whats Andor?
The thing about Doctor Aphra, is that A) she has a fully developed character, not just a series of tickmarks [IIRC her creator designed her to be "a dark version of Indiana Jones"] B) She isn't perfect. Her plans do fail, or unexpected things happen that she doesn't foresee, and she has to work out a solution, sometimes on the fly.
Aphra went woke immediately after he Vader series. "Oh look at me I'm a lesbian" completely irrelevant
"Nick Fury isn't being played by a black guy, he's being played by Samuel L. Jackson" - Asmongold 2023
He spittin straight facts.
To be fair that came about because when Marvel relaunched the 'Ultimates' comics series in 2000 the artist thought it'd be cool to draw Nick Fury as Sam L Jackson.
Jackson was a comics fan, saw the comic and thought it was cool. So when they began casting for Nick Fury in the MCU he was eager and the perfect guy to fill the role.
So yeah Asmon's point stands but Sam L Jackson was in the comics as Nick Fury long before he was in the movies.
And that's why he is not Nick Fury, he is Samuel L Jackson.
@@feliperisseto9113 Just like Peter Darker
@@feliperisseto9113 Bro Nick Fury IS Samuel L Jackson at this point
He didnt defeat me btw it was all part of the plan to turn anakin to the dark side.
Woke characters just end up being boring, with "being preachy" as their only character trait.
Just like asmon post 2021
@@Tetrathegod yup! What do you expect from a person who lives on the internet and doesnt leave his attic. Asmon is hilarious though when he stays in his lane and discusses video games.
@@bleachknight90 Appeal to everyone? No, they're meant to appeal to a very small percentage of people... aka Los Angeles NPCs.
anytime any leftist person tries to defend woke propaganda in media, ask them how would they feel if christians began infiltrating hollywood and putting in religious characters that are forced, putting in religious and christian subtext, putting in christian symbols into the story, putting in religious posters or slogans into film. Bet they wouldn't like that.
@@thisbarb No, leftists use woke to define their strawman of conservatism. No one thinks that the inclusion of a black or female character automatically makes something woke. Leftists claim this is what conservatives believe because it is easier to attack such a ridiculous idea than it is to engage with the actual criticism of wokeness.
you can't de-canonize something... once it's cannon it's in the story. If you change it, you can change how the characters understand the interaction or behind the scenes what the underlying reasoning was or small details about it. But if you change a large event like that your telling a new story that isn't part of the old story.
... Multiple canons have been a thing for decades. It's pretty much a staple of the comics industry.
@@cultreader9751*stewie voice getting high pitched* You mean the industry that had to create multiple parallel realities to explain their stories?, each universe with it's on cannon events?, Ones that didn't erase cannon events in their own respective reality?, but instead every event that's changed created a new reality?, in which it was possible to spawn an infinite number of other realities?
@@Nelnac”Stewie voice getting high pitched” -🤓👆
Most cringe thing I’ve ever read
you can... its called the "it was all a dream" scenario. It doesnt need to be an actual dream but simply a figment of a single persons imagination. you could have an episode 10 start with Luke meditating and have him state the last three movies were simply a force induced delusion or a prophecy of what would happen if he tried to kill his nephew. bam episodes 7-9 are now just made up shit in lukes head. a parallel universe existing in only Lukes memory. it never happened.
@@dathunderman4 thanks for letting us know dad
I went straight up to the original video because of the pauses and how Asmongold kept missing the point of the video and he narrowed the topic to "they are poorly written characters". Yes, they are, because the writers want them to be powerful and important only because of their sexuality/gender/race and they go straight to the powerspike or anything else without any character development - and that makes it woke.
Its not that (identity) characters are bad, its that if the characters only notable characteristic is that they've got that identity trait, then it's just an insert to tick a box.
It's a shame that things have come to this, isn't it? Ten years ago, I wouldn't have batted an eye at a black or female protagonist. Now, the likelihood that such a character is going to be a mouthpiece for regressive leftist insanity is just too high to ignore. It's become a red flag, and I hate that leftist creators have made this so. I've tried to ignore the pattern, but I've gotten burned so many times now that I simply can't pretend there isn't some truth to it.
People keep saying this but there's literally no major character that's like that.
@@hihihi1q23 *looks at Forspoken* suuuuuuuuuuuure
@@Bioshyn funny thing is, older male characters, usually always depicted by a white strong male, ended up being characters all men related too, the problem they have is that they think for someone to relate to a character they have to be superficial traits like straight, gay, etc. When in actuality all we need are characters who are designed to have similar life experiences, moral codes (like debating on helping homeless people, etc.), or just overall supposed to touch at our humanity, the term we use "woke characters" not only subvert in the worst way possible but many directors, writers, and producers have gone out of their way to say they don't give a crap about making the character have depth and they just want to have representatives of minorities. I'm sure you know this but it's great to discuss because discussion is the only way we can actually start going forward.
thers a nearly direct correlation between "identity" characters and shit writing
I mean it's pretty simple yeah? They manage to offend both the people who never asked for this and the groups they're trying to appeal to in the first place.
EXACTLY
@@SkywalkerOne1977 Nope, a huge majority of them never cared and are just as sick of it. Don't make the mistake of assuming screeching spergs on twitter represent people they happen to share characteristics with.
Some may see that as a skill haha
@@mojoboingo1744 The 'screeching spergs on twitter' are usually anti-woke nutjobs ranting about how something is woke because there's five seconds of a black woman in it.
The only people I see offended are conservatives outraged at the existence of women and minorities tbh. No one else cares either way. If it's good, it's good. If it isn't, it isn't.
Self-inserts are fine to me, as long as they stay fanfiction. The moment they try injecting it into canon? Nah, don't you dare.
The wokeness in Rey was that she did everything Luke did, but better and without effort, while every exciting male lead of the old films have turned into poor, helpless, grumpy old farts. Every successful man from the original stories have been systematically downtrodden to give rise to the female leads. Even Kylo Ren descended into this emo dweeb of a character, even though his first intro was him stopping a plasma bolt mid flight. Flynn got totally sidetracked when it was obvious "stormtrooper awakens to the force and gets a conscience redemption into jedi master" was the original intended main plot
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.” - JRR Tolkien.
outing yourself like that is the most comedic self-report of an evil person I have ever seen
@@secretname2670 who are you referring to?
you just copied exactly what someone else has said (and what most people here are commenting) and wrongly attributed it to JRR Chadolkien instead of Samwise Gamgee @@VatardGaming literally a showcase of copy & corrupt
@@secretname2670I too love the rings of power. Very cool
terrible junk@@aronean
A big problem that's arising is that due to the forced diversity in so much media that is poorly written, a lot of people, myself included, are much more critical when the protagonist of a film/show/etc happens to check one of those diversity boxes, even before the thing gets released. It becomes difficult to analyze characters properly when we've been burned so often. I hate that, since you could easily have a film starring 10 black non-binary lesbians with incredible writing and a plot that delivers, but because companies have been more focused on simply HAVING the diversity present, it makes actual diversity easily hateable.
Out brain is good at learning correlation. Sadly, 'diverse' casting ane marketing strongly has correlated with horrible writing for so long. So now we just see an article about how the next whatever is 'more diverse' and we just know it is going to be bad.
Except for those who disagree with those lifestyles. Those movies only appeal to a small percentage of the population. Look at "Bros".
@@dan-lr4zm Black, lesbian and non-binary are attributes, not lifestyles. "Disagreeing" with such people existing is a lifestyle. Attribute is what you are, lifestyle is what you do.
@@clovernacknime6984 What does that even mean.
Tf would non binary lesbians change do for the story
Oberyn Martell was such a good example. One of my favourite characters in GoT.
It's kind of hard to say "if you don't like something, don't consume it". Cause you basically have to consume something in order to know whether you would like it or not. Generally what happens is you don't watch the next thing of the same creator but it's potentially bad because you could just watch something that was bad, not watch the next thing which was better and then watch a third thing that is bad because you heard the second one was good. Meanwhile the creator sees you watched first and third who were the worst.
Especially in movies, not so much in video games that have replayability ofc. That's why you kind of have to get reactions, discussions about things (even tho it becomes a twitter shitshow I suppose) and not just "checking if product was consumed".
the line where he said "anybody can be mandalorian now" when this initially was a secret creed of exceptionally capable but mistrusting warriors, at best will cheapen that impact and at worst completely will eliminate any intrigue and mistery that the mandalorian creed ever had.
again Syndrome from The Incredibles, a 2004 animated masterpiece, said it a line that basicaly describes the consequence of what happened in Star Wars:
"When I'm old and had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so everybody can be superheroes, EVERYBODY CAN BE SUPER! ...and when everybody's super... [evil laughter] noone will be!"
This is Disney Star Wars and the MCU in a nutshell now.
I still think Finn was the one who was absolutely ROBBED from his spotlight role as a Stormtrooper turned Jedi but they never would do that in the modern day. His story Arc was the only motivating factor that I forced through the sequels. Was so disappointed when that never happened.
Finn was absolutely robbed, and so where the fans.
Eh Finn was boring from the start, I’m not sure that was fixable
Finn and Kylo Ren were the only characters with potential in The Force Awakens.
It's proof of modern-day writer's complete incompetence that they were squandered so badly...
@@ILoveGrilledCheesethank you. I don't know why people thought Finn was such a great character that the movie would be better if it focused on him.
Finn is no Kyle Katarn, he doesn't have the potential to become like him
@@bloody4558A stormtrooper becoming a jedi, a blood related padawan turning into sith, a scavenger woman searching for her life, and a young pilot becoming the leader of a the resistance. These could have become something good, even though it's hurtful to decanonized some stuff.
Asmongold advice: "Stop consumming content you do not like." We would not. Unfortunately, they give us what we want at first then transform it later into something else entirely. That is the problem. If they were clear about what they would do, be honnest, we might actually like and give a chance and not be outraged. They should create their own characters and write them good! We will be happy. But they should leave established characters as they have been known and liked.
Fan fiction is fine. But when you try to sell it as cannon people will notice and not accept it.
With the Mandalorian, its not about the main character being Bo now, it's about the fact that the whole time up until then it was centered around Dinn, and then when Bo comes out and takes the mantle, it feels like a bait and switch.
I feel they were kind of forced to move towards anyone can be a Mandalorian as Pedro has admitted he doesn't do the actual acting now and just does the voice lines. It is obvious Pedro (as much as I like him) is not interested in I habiting the role fully, so it makes sense to transition to an actor who will; I foresaw this in the first season that if Pedro become more a more popular actor.
And if they had not bring Bo more to front at last season everyone would whine how she becom ruler of mandaloria ower din, eaven thou making din ruler would mean end of story
Whether Dinn or Bo is in the lead it doesn't matter, the Mandalorian isn't a very good show, and won't be unless they get those clowns Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau off the show. They both have fallen so far into mediocrity it's actually insane.
@@bilbobagend8155Dave filoni hasnt had a fuckup at all though? All of his shows are top tier, he barely had anything to in mando s3 because he was directing Ahsoka
@a_agadir3964 I really liked the Clone Wars and some individual episodes of Rebels, though admittedly, I'm not sure how well they'd hold up on a rewatch.
Mando S1 was mediocre, S2 was just kind of bad, and BoBF was actually bad.
Xena was around in the early 90's. Powerful, not sexualized. They just didnt beat you in the face with it until you couldn't take any more.
I loved the show used to watch it weekly on tv.
Currently rewatching with a friend :)
Or buffy the vampire slayer, that show slapped.
@@MrEvans1 xena is a good example of how it worked in a good way , they never rubbed it in either to make you feel shit about it as well.
Xena not sexualized? Did you not notice her armor? Had the aim not been to make her sexy, they would have instead had her wear proper leather armor that actually protects her whole body. Not a skirt and corset emphasizing her curves.
It made sense for Hercules to not really wear armor, he's a friggin half god. Xena was a regular mortal, albeit a powerful fighter.
There's even a god damn bathing scene.
Nothing wrong with being sexualized. She was a great character and the TV series was awesome.
"can you write a new story that's original and good?"
"No, no, and no"
tl;dr: a lot of movie and game makers think "GIGACHAD = wear a label and nothing else" or "GIGACHAD = have literally no flaws whatsoever (and make sure to point out that it's solely due to that label)" when they should really be creating interesting characters. No one complains about Ripley and many other girl characters because they're well-written and more or less realistic. When you confuse writing with slapping labels on the character, you have bad writing and that's it. To add insult to injury, most people tend to double down and resort to rhetorics like calling names and _ad hominem_ when someone points that flaw out.
They straight up assassinated Luke's character so Rey could do the stuff he was supposed to do.
Let me guess, they gave him emotions instead of making him a cold uncaring jedi like the ones before him.
@Diomedes Cowards in what way?
@Diomedes That is an old story troupe that gets used time and time again, new character talks old characters into rejoining the fight. Both characters had other issues going on that made them not want to join.
@Diomedes Han left because he was upset over Kylo disappearing, Luke was still upset at himself for nearly killing Kylo. those are the reasons I come across and if those are the reasons given in the movies they are fine.
@@Shadowlurkering Did Han and Luke even try to address Kylo Ren AT ALL before Rey showed up.
Also, I am curious about whether Luke told Leia and Han about his role in Ben Solos turn to the Dark Side.
It's simple, "the message" is more important than character arc or character development or storyline. Are there any franchises left that haven't tanked their fanbase for this?
I liked bo katan from clone wars and I thought she was a petty cool character in mandalorian. But she needed her arc in her own show
Why does Asmon assume we didn't stop watching Mandalorian and other shows? We did. But that doesn't stop us from noting how many franchises we have had to walk away from and explain why we left.
The biggest issue is not when they appear, (that’s another issue) but if they appear in exchange of pre established motifs or plot points. Rey taking Luke’s place for example.
Her and Finn were primed for absolutely compelling story points. The orphaned scavenger, and the force sensitive stormtrooper turncoat. It was actually exciting in episode 7 when you thought of these potential points
The only and best thing about this new trilogy is the potential that Episode 7 generated (even though the script was well copied from the first film).
You see not just one, but dozens of good stories that could spawn, but then the bad direction turns the promise into a mockery of a self-inconsistent narrative.
I think the real problem is this, corporatism taking over the creative space that makes art able to connect people.
@@bryanm498 Also.. music.
@@bryanm498 No, the biggest problem with Episode 7 is that no one working on it could agree on what the fuck they wanted to do with it.
Episode 7 established something safe but workable, Episode 8 shat on all of it mercilessly from the word go and tried to do something more poignant, then Episode 9 shat on all of THAT and went BACK to being as safe as possible and just ended up boring because it was the ending and thus there was no room to expand on things properly.
i even forgave the new hope rip offs just to see new plots especially Finn being force sensitive vut didnt get anything good
I saw episode 7 as a palette cleanser to the prequels. It tried to establish that this was classic star wars here are the new heroes and here’s some plot threads to follow…..
Then along comes episode 8 and just burns everything down until there was nothing left to build on. That’s how we got “ somehow Palpatine returned”
They should have had a written planned trilogy from day one.
havign black people in a story does not make the story woke, having black people in it BECAUSE they are black and their entire character and identity is "black person", that is woke. Having a woman in it doesn't make it woke, having a woman in it BECAUSE its a woman and their entire character and identity is "I has vagina" makes it somewhat woke, and "i has vagina, therefore I can do no wrong, I am super good at everything I do, and everybody loves me for no conceivable reason" makes it truly woke.
Woke doesn't mean what conservatives want it to - being woke isn't bad. It's meant something for 50 years and a bunch of whiny fanboys can misuse it all they want doesn't change what it means to any of the people that ever gave a shit about it. Being "truly woke" is a good thing that describes a story that shines a light on a real issue. The 500 crazies on twitter aren't the thoughleaders of the other side on this, "woke" people don't like terrible characters either
You are right but just because the cesspool you call home uses that word as a slur doesn't mean anyone respectable does.
@@Souledex yeah, everyone in my home is progressive/liberal, sorry buddy. Good luck with your dogma :D
@@Souledex "Woke" is about pushing identity politics, it's all about putting people into camps based on their race, sexual orientation and gender and the concept had been gaining ground slowly since the 80's.
Shining light on issues isn't woke, societies all over the world do this all the time throughout history and they were not seen as woke, it was only when identity politics was pushed and claiming it "woke" them up to the injustices to minorities or women or gays and that we should focus on these identities to help them that created the woke movement and this is extremely problematic.
Do you know what the biggest cause of hate is from in society? Tribalism and tribalism is a programme that humans have that triggers as soon as you identify and become a part of a group which allows you to work better and more efficiently in that group but it causes in-group biases for that group and out-group prejudices to any competing groups which is why you have a growing number of men hating feminists or white hating minorities or straight hating gays, in other words, identity politics will spread more hatred and prejudices in society than it will ever solve and it's more regressive than progressive but the elites are afraid to be labelled racists, sexist or homophobic so they keep perpetuating this ideology to keep their jobs because many elites have been indoctrinated in this ideology thanks to universities which has pushed for more and more progressive views and it has become very problematic in society and become pretty extremist.
30:55 To be fair, ANY character improves if you cast Samuel L Jackson for the role. I'd pay top dollar to see him as Snow White, or anyone and anything else.
Its sad that it is so shocking when someone says, "Don't watch something that is going in a direction you don’t like". People just accept mediocrity these days. Try watching something from the 90s or early 2000s. Don’t accept modern garbage.
They didn't turn the mandalorian into a girl, they just made the mandalorian a "recurrent" character in his own show
they did the same with boba fett from what i saw about the show on YT.
@@thepsychomagus You're just like me. I have more fun watching CZcams videos breaking down how bad the show is instead of just watching the show itself.
If the audience wants activism, they'll go to a rally, not a cinema.
while i agree, there r times when "woke" media is done right & can make a story unique. ex: love simon, josee the tiger & the fish, bend it like beckham, like stars on earth (taare zameen par)
Having a black character in a show is not activism.
@@mono8476 definitely, it all depends on the context and how they go about tackling these issues. If I feel like the movie is trying to sell me some ideaology, I instantly switch off.
Just my 2 cents though, it's the same as why I play video games, I want to escape from all the politicisation and not be reminded constantly of the injustices of the world.
Movies have had political messages since their inception, its only a problem when its a message you don't like.
@@jaimebyrd3578
My original was about my disdain for the politicization of media, it's ironic this comment itself has been politicized.
I'm center left ideologically, studied undergrad Politics and International Relations for 3 years and now super apathetic and disenchanted by Liberals and Republicans alike.
I hate how everything is politicized and have moved to the ideaological extremes in US politics.
My issue is the overt shoehorning of US centric social issues into media. If done subtly, it's immersive (like in Harry Potter with the Mudbloods) but if done overtly you're no longer in the fantasy world but now discussing US politics in Lord of the Rings.
We are constantly reminded of how fucked the up the world is, alot of us watch movies to escape and forget for a couple hours.
When it comes to characters i usually don't go for looks first thing. Talking about fighting game characters for a bit, i usually go with what they can do rather than what they look like. If i understand what they are meant to do and i can implement that then that's a character i'll gravitate towards. My first assessment of the character is: What can this STICK FIGURE DO? That's how i see them at first. Then comes the meat and bones and scars, the characters personality, the motives and the struggles. The scars/struggles don't have to be visible, physical, they can be emotional and psychological. Take Juri Han from Street Fighter as an example. She's basicly a traditional Shoto character, a female shoto. She has deep personality, she has personal motives and she has plenty of scars to show both physical and emotional and psychological. What was the result? INSTANT FAN FAVOURITE AND MAINSTAY IN THE SERIES. She's Asian btw, no big tits either.
What? A deep female character that actually defies beauty standards? And she became instantly popular? NO WAY!
5:06 the problem is they are co opting known IPs and changing them. It isn’t their own story. No one cares about a no name new character being created, it’s taking a beloved series and then manipulating it. The fans of the series expect 1 thing and get something else. The creators are banking on the fans to drive revenue but then make it something else. The food analogy is always a great one. You order lasagna and get a soy burger. You wanted x but got y. Then when you add the fact that sales of lasagna are 200x what soy burgers are, it looks a lot like bait and switch.
In regards to the self insert thing I feel like an important part is what they are connected to, in the case of Peter Parker it was a new character in a new world with a high chance that if it failed he would have disappeared, but in the cases of Rey and I’m not starfire girl, they piggyback onto a popular media to attempt to leach that popularity and still try to force it after it fails
The main problem with things being "woke" is that it ruins the legacy of whatever it touches. These new writers and directors are not making their own thing but riding off the backs of already established franchises to push their own messages. Plus it doesn't help that they always hate everything about the series they are working with.
Yea that whole "the force is female" bullshit didnt fly well with people they act like there legit arent any powerful female Jedi masters AT ALL while lietrally Jedi master Shak'ti And Ayla Secura two incredibly badass women in the starwars universe and they relike no we need string female character in starwars there arent any at all meanwhile Leia is the leader of the new republlic and always been an actual badass despite still playing the Damsel in distress role you can be two opposing things at the same time they arent mutually exclusive its just ridiculous
@@Mstrskeletor89 I would also point out that one of the main leaders of the rebels was Mon Mothma. Andor did a great job with her as well.
I agree. And a huge problem, i see, is that these woke additions are NOT paying homage to these great works. Zero respect and at times they call the whole fanbases racist or misogynistic etc. If someone doesnt agree with their takes. They just step on these classics and take a fat shit then use it to propel their agendas. Eventhough these media iterations would not even be realized in the first place if it werent for the classics to pave the way. Idk it just sucks.
There were DOZENS of powerful female jedi in the old Expanded Universe, but Kennedy threw it all out. Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Bastila... @@Mstrskeletor89
Woke characters are born special, there's no hero's journey.
Starfire's daughters being like that is not OK . Firstly , starfire is a redhead with a tan , her daughter looks nothing like her . Secondly they didn't have to make it ugg-lly(no no word) . Third, shouldn't we support healthiness as much as possible, which that character clearly isn't. Being chubby is ok , but being morbidly(word yt wont let me say) is not ok in any way, nor is it ok to say hey this is an ok .
the thing with Samuel Jackson playing the role of Nick Fury is that the only difference was the looks AND they didn't make a big deal about it. they didn't say "we will butcher the character in every possible way but we will also make him black and gay and call everyone who doesn't like the changes a bigot"
also the fact that Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury is based on the Ultimate Universe's Nick Fury... who was specifically designed to look like Nick Fury, because they already thought about wanting to cast him as Nick Fury for the MCU.
@@DatAsianGuy I thought they drew Ultimate Nick like Sam and then had to ask him for permission and he said "Only if I get to play him in the movie".
@@kyleellis1825 I mean how I remembered it was that they decided to base Ultimate Nick Fury on Sam Jackson, because they wanted at some point to make movies and cast him. but perhaps my info is outdated.
@@DatAsianGuy The author did it just because he loved Sam jackson but had no permission. Sam Jackson saw the comic and had his lawyer get in contact. Sam didn't sue if they used him in the movie instead of the white Nick Fury. But it was all his idea to be on screen.
Edit: Just red a few articles on it to make sure.
exactly the fact that hes black is literally never brought up in the marvel movies hes just Nick Fucking Fury and thats all he should be Sam Jackson wasnt picked because he was black he decided to play the role himself and hes a good actor so they went with it and likely didnt wanna get sued this is why i like falcon and the winter soldier cause the kid calls same the "Black Falcon" his orginal comic book name and Sam responds "its just the Falcon Kid" its a nod to the old comic and simultaneously kicking that shitty moniker as it should have been decades ago lol
One bit about creating characters in the author's likeness: it wouldn't be a problem, if they created they're own properties and did it. But instead they take existing properties, with fanbases large and small (but almost always equally impassioned) and subvert/insert those characters there to almost always disastrous results. Most popular IPs from the 80s on have, in this last 10 years or so, have been subjected to this and have nowhere near the clout they once did. The diehards mainly abandoned it because nothing was the same anymore (what got those properties to that clout in the first place)
"they're" lmao
Guts is literally one of the best characters ever written and Miura said he was basically an amalgamation of him and his friend from highschool (the same one that took up writing the series).
@@nickelakon5369 I think the point made here is there's an issue with putting a self insert into someone else's story.
Especially if your self insert is suddenly the main focal point of the story.
People who go to a Sonic film want to see Sonic, not some cheap ripoff OC.
@@nickelakon5369 Sure but Miura *literally* wasn't a one armed mercenary hacking away at demons with a 500lb sword after losing all of his comrades in a supernatural blood orgy who eventually learns the real reward was the friends he made along the way. Guts writing and behavior as a character is largely independent from Miura's personality and the inspiration drawn from him and his friend group was mostly aimed at the dynamics between Guts and the band of the hawk. He's not even close to being a self insert.
@coltonwhite2518 yea but most of the things that make people like guts are heavily based on Miura's own life (or the other mangaka's).
Not to mention, some of the stories they told about themselves give off some real anime protag energy.
Deadpool would cear he himself is pansexual. Lady Death is his greatest lover in the Comics and she is a skeleton
30:40 pretty sure Fury had dark hair. He would have been perfect for David Hasselhoff(pretty sure he did play Fury once) but Samuel L Jackson did a good job for while.
There's no progression and context in the backstory of these woke characters.
For example if you want strong feminine character, Sarah Connor from T1 is the best. You can see how she went from being a normal girl with daily job to a female warrior throughout the whole movie.
On the other hand with these movies nowadays, you have right out the gate "this is a chick name 'X', she can kick the shit out of every buffy dudes in a bar. She also has a lot of cheap one-liners to crack some forgettable chuckles in the movie theater"
The modern female hero's journey is a flat line. She can't be shown as weak or flawed or failing in the beginning because that would be a negative portrayal of a female character, so she has no low point from which to grow and develop and overcome. The "climax" of almost all these girl boss movies is the main character realizing she was awesome the whole time. Her only obstacles were the constraints unfairly placed upon her by society. The universe then bends around her will and desires, seemingly out of nowhere and for no other reason than she's so self-evidently amazing. The only thing she learned was to believe in herself. It's all disgustingly narcissistic, and yet it's held up as some great triumph.
@@RavenGlenn John McClane isn't a superhero. He's an Everyman. At least he started out that way. Ironically writers turned him into a super hero and that made the character less relatable and the movies much worse.
That has less to do with "woke" characters and more to do with today's writing. Nobody has that type of story glow-up anymore. Like, cats love Andor (I do too) but to act like that motherfucker doesnt start out with hyper situation-awareness and was a top-notch pilot is pure fantasy. The only thing you get out of his backstory is his adoptive parents taught him how to scavenge tech and he used to be a cook in the military.
@@jasondaniel6021 What? He literally takes out an entire building full of bad guys ALL BY HIMSELF. That doesn't happen in reality. He very much is a "superhero".
@@wholetyouinhere What are you talking about? Pretty much every female character goes through the typical heroes journey. Rey literally starts as a peniless scavenger lmao.
The problem with woke characters is that the writers expect people to love them because they're woke, not because they're good characters.
If you have good characters in a compelling story, then it doesn't matter what their gender or the color of their skin is for me to enjoy it. But on the other side of that coin, if the characters are one-dimensional and the story is crap, then you don't get a free pass just because they happen to be woke.
mandy from grim adventures of billy and mandy is one of my favorite female characters because her power comes from the force of her personality. shes not a female casted as john wick but she comes off as more authoritative and believable because men arent scared of women because of their ability ot force choke them, were scared of their minds.
Deadpool dating a nonbinary woman is somewhat hilarious to me because one of his former love interests was an overweight black woman and they had a pretty loving relationship despite his psychopathy. They even had a kid lmfao
Star Killer was a great character with great potential. I love the idea of the bad becomes good.
star killer was basically male rey, they both are awful written and asspulled
@@mihaimercenarul7467 There are actual reasons why Starkiller is OP, not the least of which is due to his own hard work. I don't see that from Rey
@@thisguyoverhere6572 starkiller was just an insert character that was made OP and able to beat everyone with ease because the game tries to make you feel like an unstoppable badass. He even managed to steal vader's saber when he was a child and we barely saw his training. And his story was awful, just as bad as rey's. Starkiller is excused and loved because we played with him and lazily OP prodigy males are usually preferred over lazily OP prodigy females
@@mihaimercenarul7467 He was a child born from two Jedi, trained since he was child by the Chosen one. Had struggles and near death experiences. Fighting for those he cared about even sacrificing himself for the Rebel leaders at the end of the first game.
Of course he was overpowered, it was a game about unleashing the full power of the force, to really make you feel like a badass. The difference is here that he has a reason for the power he gained, trained for it and had flaws such as his initial trust and blind faith in Vader as his Master. The people working on the game also explained that the powers portrayed is simply how the legend is told of their story. Similar to how legends is explained in real life and how things get exaggerated. What was the reason for Rey learning the force and knowing how to mind trick someone in the span of no training and recently finding out the force exist?
@@mihaimercenarul7467 Yeah no. OP prodigys that have no conflict whatsoever suck no matter the gender. And that reply makes me think you never actually went through Starkillers story, as it was miles better than Rey's. Adding to Fardfox, he was only able to pull off the crazy shit he did because of that training with Vader and his best friend PROXY programmed to try to kill him on a regular basis, the latter you see come up a lot in game. PROXY has been doing that for many, many years. And despite that power, he still couldn't beat Palpatine in either the good or bad endings. He sacrificed himself to let the other founders of the rebellion escape and start the alliance, which is a way more interesting founding of the rebellion than in disney canon.
Meanwhile, Rey was able to pull of what Jedi masters can do in so little time with almost 0 training and suffered absolutely none of the drawbacks that Luke did.
I think it has more to do with the “self inserts” being the whole characters in their entirety rather than just having certain traits or personality points that line up with the character they’re creating.
Love your nuance, much needed in the realm of gaming
I went on a tinder date w/ a girl who thought the new star wars movies were god's gift to hollywood and we got in a 2 hour long discussion about it. Long story short there was no 2nd date lmao
One big issue. Characters like Captain marvel instead of being built up by their actions are instead just told that they are smart, emotional, bold, etc when we never actually see them be emotional or take bold risks.
"Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made" -Tolkien
The shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make; not real new things of its own.
Right - which is why capitalist white as hell board rooms built on greed and a need to please more to reap more ruin diverse characters
so hecking based and redpilled! BatChest
M l
@@gimezo123 cringe and bluepilled.
It was clever the back when Rings of Power was coming out. But do you really not see the irony in repeating a phrase about evil only being able to copy things?
"they deserve a comic" - almost correct, the creator deserves to create it, and then deserves the outcome.
If the readers like it, or if they don't like it. Readers have the right to like what they like, regardless.
Asmongold "If you don't like it, don't watch it and they will stop making it"
Disney "chalange accepted"
The problem is when the character is pushed for the identity they have rather than for the compelling story narrative they hold. Thats what makes the difference between "woke" and not "woke".
"Chekhov's gun is a narrative principle that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed. For example, if a writer features a gun in a story, there must be a reason for it, such as it being fired sometime later in the plot."
When characters are gay and it plays into the story - that's fine. IMO, in the cartoon Kipo, the MC develops a crush on a guy she's adventuring with, and he explains that he is gay, which kills off any unnecessary romance and leaves the characters as friends.
Otherwise, just throwing in the fact that an MC is gay without it making any difference to the story or character development is terrible writing. It's like describing a character and saying "he had a dog throughout his childhood and teenage years". Ok, how does it affect the character? Is he now an animal lover and will prioritize saving animals over humans, for example? No? Then there's no point in adding that.
I felt the same way and its one of the few shows that touches those areas that I still let my kid watch it, cause its a good kids show, lots of good take care of your friends and make peace lessons.
i feel it's kinda weird to put these expectations on characters if they're anything other than straight though. if a character is straight, no one ever asks for it to play into their character arc or story.
@@Zeenobae You should watch the episode bro, see what we are talking about, they made it into an interesting moment of tension between the characters that was really relatable.
I mean who hasn't liked someone that couldn't or wouldn't like them back, I myself have had a few she doesn't play for our team crushes at one point.
its like episode four, its organic and if the current climate wasn't so toxic I don't think it even would have stood out to me. like early on in season 1 episode 4 maybe.
@@LazyActor Way to not respond to Cass' point at all.
@@bookswithike3256 what Cass said was pointless and wrong
The biggest problem with woke characters is that nobody knows what woke means. Fans use the politicized term woke to condemn political characters. Its stupid and no one knows what they are talking about.
Is Asmomongold seriously arguing that Disney Star Wars doesn't put women above men for political reasons?
Nah he's just trying not to get cancelled 😂😂
I think a lot of the people that get mad at some characters or some renditions of a story is, partly that the story/character is being used as a platform to try and promote ideas which is fine in and of itself but not when the character has always been, looked, behaved a certain way and now it's something entirely different , and for the most overwhelming part is them being pissed off at the fact that the people behind a beloved IP are funding stuff like that instead of other settings, plots or concepts that fans would've loved much more to see adapted.
yeah, its when activist take over a beloved ip to sideline the main characters or turn them into whatever they are trying to promote, and dont try to further the narrative of the story, they just push propaganda.
I also think the lack of proper villains for these characters is also a problem. Villains that act as a counterbalance to the characters. Like Batman v Joker, Sonic v Eggman Robotnik, Spider-Man v Goblin/DocOck/Venom, etc.
@@whaleping
Do you think that's why they brought back characters like Darth Maul and Vader? As in they couldn't figure out on making their own villains that could work with their new protagonists so they simply returned some older ones.
Its alot and its years of it, it cannot be simplifee into reason. That you can easily say or type
Asmongold doesn't understand. Wokeness is pushing the progressive agenda. A black character isn't necessarily woke. It's the context that makes that character woke. If it is supposed to be a white character that got race swapped to black for diversity quotas, then it's woke. If it is a European historical figure that got race swapped to black, that is hyper woke. Erasing Europeans from our own history to give black people representation where they are not entitled to representation is woke. Interracial romances are woke. When producers want to promote interracial relationships by giving a white female character a black husband or black boyfriend, that is woke, since that is aimed at promoting race mixing to young white women to try and get rid of the white race.
Asmongold: “Stop consuming content that you feel doesn’t respect you”… it’s not easy cause everything is infected by disrespect. There are no franchises left
go to animes or manga. for now they do a good job not insulting people... but who know for how long since the west are trying really hard to force japanese people into follow the western views or values.
This is completely true, everything they create now days is woke drivel.
Make your own. Same goes for the government or entertainment, if it's bad then switch it up or give up and become an animal. One of few things in life with no middle ground
@@secretname2670 4Head
... then don't. Entertainment isn't a vital part of life. There's more media made before these times that you can enjoy in a lifetime. Or better yet, make your own, even if only for yourself. Creative writing is a great hobby to have.
Rey taking skywaker name is like luke taking kenobi name after knowing wader is his farther 😂
5:15 Starfire is from the Teen Titans (essentially a junior Justice League with Tim Drake as Robin) And Self-Inserts rarely work out especially when the writer/artist isn't the actor playing the character. The big reason why Self-Inserts are almost always s&!t is because the author is far too often slavishly invested in that character--- to the point it becomes a power fantasy with the (plot warping to serve the character) as they don't want to see their 'perfect' creation suffer. If Perfection doesn't have to strived for by the MC and their compatriots it becomes anathema to a story. Rei is a power fantasy done wrong (everyone has to made dumber and weaker in order for her to shine)-- if you want a power fantasy done right see the anime IPs One Punch Man and Overlord.
I use the "what else?" strategy. One of my characters is the grandkid of an African-American soldier once stationed in Japan. This is important to the character because he was raised differently from his peers as a result, and couldn't always fit in. And that's the "what else" that's a lot more important than the character being mixed.
what in they world does his grandfather's old duty station have to do with his upbringing? lol is my future grandkid gonna be unique because I was stationed in Virginia?
@@stevendemayo3631 The location matters since people often do parenting the way they were parented. And people are also influenced by the culture they're immersed in. Someone who lived among native tribes on the Amazon river would have different views compared to someone who spent a decade in downtown Seoul.
Is he a Swordsman?
@@abacatezika More of a boxer with a bit of magic, but you're giving me ideas, holy smoke..
@@destroyerinazuma96 I'm just saying, a flame Katana may always come in handy.
I'm black and I get people calling me racist because I want more original black characters... The argument was never about black=woke or woman=woke. To say otherwise is just being disingenuous.
@@omensoffate nah I'm really a 43 yr old white man
I'm black as well and this is my problem, unless race is a key aspect of a character then who plays them shouldn't matter. When you look at changes from books or shows to movies they change so much and that's fine. Yet if a black person has a role that was done by a white person the movie is ruined.
@@greyjedi1272Fans deserve to have adaptations that are faithful to their source material. I don't need or want hand me down characters. This whole representation thing is just baffling to me because there is so much to a character than their race. I'm not gonna assume this about you, but I know damn well that people who agree with your position wouldn't be okay with a original black character being white.
@@Cimo8 If there is so much more to a character than race why is it that people are ok with changing those things but race is the breaking point? Also do we really want to start listing characters that aren't faithful to the source material but is still ok?
@@greyjedi1272 That's a damn lie and you know it. Batman was changed and people hated it. Superman was changed and people hated it. And okay to who exactly? No actual fan would be okay with race swapping characters or their characteristics. Even Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter gets criticism for not keeping to the source material. The fact that I enjoyed those movies doesn't change that. And the people okay with those kind of changes most likely never read the source material in the first place, so of course they'd be "okay"with it.
Guts in the manga called Berserk is pretty much a self insert of the creator Kentaro Miura and Guts is literally the most well developed character in existence.
You can’t have complex villains because you can’t send the message to the masses that maybe our idea of morality is flexible.