That Pedal Show - Effects In The Loop or In The Front End?
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2015
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It's a question we get asked all the time: should I run my delays and reverbs in the amp's effects loop, or should they go into the front end?
Well you guessed it, there's no definitive answer, so in this video Daniel and Mick attempt to address the main points to consider when setting up your effects.
We're using a Victory V40 The Duchess amp along with TheGigRig G2 to demonstrate the same effects going into the front end and also in the loop. G2 is taking care of the signal path shenanigans as seamlessly as it always does.
As you will hear, the differences are subtle but significant.
A Strymon Big Sky and Time Line supply reverb and delay respectively, while the JHS Pedals Angry Charlie serves up the distortion.
We suspect this may be a topic we will need to revisit at some point so please post your comments and questions below and we'll do our best to address them.
Oh, and we love Taylor Swift, just for the record.
Happy watching! - Hudba
![Using Effects Pedals With Multi Channel Guitar Amps [And A Bit On FX Loops] - That Pedal Show](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/K-YbjgNcMQ4/mqdefault.jpg)
"That Pedal Show" should be mandatory viewing for guitar players of all skill levels looking to get he most out of their rig.
Agreed!
+Michael Fenton Agreed!!
+Michael Fenton true dat
Michael Fenton wish i had years ago, no kiddin.
I was actually thinking this a few hours ago....I personally know a ton of guitar players out there gigging that have no idea what they’re really doing. There’s no excuse with the advent of these CZcams tutorial and demo vids. It’s as good as school.
You could have just stopped the video at "Dave Gilmour doesn't use effects loops"...great video!
Fred Feldman Yeah thats true
Well this is random
Mainly because he runs his amps super clean and smacks a Ram's Head Muff in front of it for screaming leads. The effect loop was for people who run their amps dirty, but don't like the sound of a delay or chorus going into an overdriven amp.
Well, David Gilmour mostly played (I don’t know about now) a Hiwatt DR 103 and this one does not have an effects loop so this might be the main reason.
Smurfman256 Gilmour has used countless different pedals from two Silicon Fuzz Faces(one for clean, one for distortion) to various Muff clones in recent years. But his use of modulation, in the front, is counter-intuitive to most players that try to get tones as clear, as his usually is.
I love how he went from the loop first then he went into the front. As soon as he went into front I felt like an addict wanting that crispy clean beauty back.
It has to be said.....The Pedal Show ROCKS!!! Love the depth and passion that comes across in these shows....and the knowledge shared is priceless. Thanks guys :)
Man I love you guys. You managed to explain something 100x more clearly than the other countless videos I've watched on effects loop and now I FINALLY get it! Thanks gentlemen. Sorry to hear things didn't work out with Taylor. ;)
Something I discovered about running delays into the front end of a cranked up amp is that the level of the delay repeats can be much more responsive to your dynamics. When you play softly and roll back your guitar volume, the repeats become more subtle or fade out completely. As you hit the amp harder and get more power tube overdrive, the delays come back in a lovely grainy, almost lo-fi kind of vibe. Cranking the level of the repeats yields more overdrive on the repeats since they're hitting the amp harder.
By contrast, I found that running my delay after my OD pedal and into a clean amp yields a much more controllable delay with cleaner repeats, but I hear the repeat at any setting on my guitar's volume knob due to the compression in the OD pedal smoothing out my level going into the delay.
Playing my Analog Man ARDX20 straight into my Carr Rambler cranked to 10 has made me completely rethink delay sounds. If you have an analog delay, play it into an OD pedal or a cranked up amp and play with your guitar's volume knob and your picking dynamics. You might discover something cool.
Look forward to the show every week. Keep it up lads!
I have been watching you guys for like two years now and I’m really digging all the videos. There’s a lot of genuine fun had between you guys and this series is a genuine masterclass for playing rock’n roll with an electric guitar.
Gentlemen, your vids are simply perfect and a lot of fun to watch! I am learning a lot! Just go on like that!
Will do, make sure you're signed up to the new channel :)
Awesome show guys. So glad I found you on here. Been binge watching, and have already learned a lot. Cheers
Great job guys... Guitar/ gear nerds like myself can't get enough of your show. Very informative.
Thanks for the thorough talk and examples guys! Answered some questions I had, and some I didn't know I had until you answered them :)
You guys always have the tastiest overdrive tones.....simply a joy to listen too.
Can't believe I just found this channel. My 3 loves, comedy, pedals and jiu jitsu! Awesome video series guys, can't get enough.
Wow, y'all have come a long way! So glad I found your channel
EQ pedal episode would be awesome. Amazing show guys keep it up!
What the hell would I do without this show?! Maybe have less gear in my life but wow every problem or question I have you guys not only answer but leave me informed on why it's best for my situation. Thank you so much
putting my whole chain through the loop has made everything finally sound right for me. it's also been really helpful in letting me keep a noisy cut-throat distorted tone at suburban decibel levels.
Thanks for the vid guys! I ran it up as you described. The time based pedals really do work better in the loop of my Egnater. It really tamed them and made them more alive.
Awesome fellas. I learnt plenty and realise I don't need to buy an amp with an effects loop. For once you've saved my thousands as opposed to the usual!
Throwing down wisdom 8 years ago. I've watched a Ton Of your awesome content and once again this one gave me ideas. Gonna put my phaze 90 in front of my amp
Great show guys! Excellent flow of info! Cheers
Thanks guys, after watching your video I now have my delay and reverb going into the effects loop of my Kemper, a definate improvement :-)
Love these videos, look forward to the next one. As an idea for a next episode it'd be amazing to see a video on MIDI and all the awesome stuff you could do with it. Would be intrigued to see just how much you can do with it and the G2
Best videos on here,infomative and sometimes funny it's great these guys describe everything in pretty simple format and without being boring either like some are.
I have watched 5 of your videos today, very informative, and on topics that I not considered the importance of.
I was watching this video will my wife was watching TV so I put on the CC. It was quite hilarious, because it was giving this video a totally different story!! Try it for fun!
Great discussion, coupled with very clear information which this subject needed.
Great video. I'm pretty new to this game and there is lots of good information here. Keep up the good work. Cheers from across the pond.
You either distort the delay and reverb or you reverb and delay the distortion. The latter seems better in my opinion. Think recording session.
typically but not always..
Thanks guys.
After some experimenting the big plus for me right off the bat is that running my pedal board into the front of the amp instantly eliminates 40' of cable. That alone is all the advantage I need to conclude that just running everything into the front like Gilmore does is the way to go. Personally I've always look at effects loops as more of a sales gimmick than an actual essential functioning element.
Good teaching Mick & Daniel, no question. I have learn something new as always. Great channel. Thank you guys.
Great video. I personally like the more organic sounds by going into the front. I also like old school simple amps, they dont have fx loops. You showed the tonal differences!
I'm so grateful for your input (excuse the pun). Picking up my guitar again after two or three decades, I've recently been overwhelmed to such a degree by technical-equipment stuff, that I couldn't even find the correct words to phrase my questions. Your explanation and demonstration has been incredibly helpful... thank you.
+Peter Marshall ah, absolutely my pleasure Peter. Thanks for watching ;)
+Peter Marshall A really basic question: Can you please define what you mean by the terms 'wet' and 'dry' ? The terms are bandied-around so much by those in 'the know'. I'm assuming that the dry-signal is taken from the pre-amp, prior to the effects-loop stage... however, I guess that the even drier signal would be taken prior to any effects being added. Sorry if this sounds like a 'numptie' question.
+Peter Marshall The 2 terms vary in meaning but for the most part, a dry signal is the signal that's direct from your guitar and your amplifier, whereas a wet signal is the sound of the delay and reverb in the background.
Hi guys, i'd love for yous to do a video on guitar sounds in the mix in comparison to guitar sounds on its own. Its an interesting and unexplored topic among the internet guitar spectrum! And you guys know your stuff!
Great idea!
Fellas. 3:30 is all you had to say to earn a subscription! SO MANY people will tell you that even overdrives need the loop. However it’s far from the truth. Thanks for getting right into the hearty information and keeping that info legit and straightforward! Cheers mates 🍻🤝
You guys have really helped me make much more sense out of this stuff!!! Glad I found you!
Hey Edward, you’re so welcome 🤓👍
Ahaha I'm mentioned in this video...! In all seriousness, thanks for the video, I've been learning about effects chains and wanted to learn about the loop- and you guys gave the best explanation by far.
Love the jiu-jitsu shirt. I do not have a effects loop on my amplifier or a pedal that has that capability. I plug everything thru the front of my amplifier with the amplifier on a clean setting. my analog delay does not like being in a effects loop.
That's by far my favorite pedal-guitar related channel on CZcams! It would be great to see an episode on input impedance of fuzz pedals. My favorite drive is the EHX Double Muff, but it has to be the first in the pedal chain. I also have a Fuzz Face Mini, which also doesn't take wah or compressor in front of it. I ended up settling with a SolidGold Rosie, which does fine anywhere in the chain.
great video gents, explained so much. incredibly helpful 👌👌
Would love an episode about equalizers! Would love hearing the new Mesa five band pedal vs a boss! Love the videos! Keep it coming :)
Hey Dan, thanks for this video! Maybe another topic would be how to properly split your guitar signal. I'm currently wondering how to do it after the ex loop of my amp so I can have a D/W rig. That could be a topic for one of your videos, I think. Thanks again, I really enjoy all the knowledge that you both share and also the tone!
thanks guys, this makes it clear that given a choice, it would absolutely be the more detailed, rich and dimensioney presentation of the FX send/return. It was pretty obvious!
I've never had a good experience with the FX loop. Some people do, I'm sure, but not me. I've tried it with a JCM 900, Supersonic 60, and Fender Blues Deville 410. I run a Fender Deluxe Reverb '65 RI right now and I A/B into both channels: Vibrato for cleans, and normal for dirt. I have my Saucy Box after the A/B switch and my Carbon Copy before my A/B switch. Having the delay before my OD has made a world of difference. I love it. It's clear, clean, and distinct.
I'm sure many people have had success with FX loops, but I wouldn't base an amp purchase off of it.
That's excellent, you've experimented and found a setup that works for you. Our job here is done :)
Great video! Thanks again.
A big hug from Rio de Janeiro for you!!!!
wow gentlemen, great video. i learned a lot to day!!!
Great job guys! Thanks again for taking the time and going through the proper rigors of comparison on this topic. Your videos are among my favorites for gaining the knowledge I can use without costing me money, time, and Pete Townsend tom foolery I would have to go through to get it. Don't get me wrong I have owned albums and appreciated the Who and Pete's work over the years. It's just that one can't really grab, run, and return all that not so good stuff without being recognized by the 3rd time!
+Mike Sperling cheers Mike :)
" If its good for enough for Dave, its good enough for me " That brought a genuine smile to my face.
I have a Crate GFX 212, it doesn't have a conventional FX Loop. It has a single Stereo 1/4 Input on the front of the amp and the way you use it (according to the manual) is you buy a stereo 1/4 inch to 2 mono 1/4 inch splitter cable and plug the stereo end into the "insert" jack and the other ends to each output of the pedal(s) you are wanting in the loop. I used to think it didn't have an FX Loop but now that I know it does, I actually like this amp. I like the very basic clean it has, perfect for pedals and modulation of every sort.
u guys are so on point. the loop gives effects a more wet sound
great demo and explanations.
pretty useful stuff. The best way I can describe it is, if you run a delay in front of the amp and your using the overdrive from the amp your basically running the delay into the overdrive. that's why delay and reverb is usually last in the chain. if it's not it will be distorted by what ever effect comes next.
.it really sucks! (overdrive from the amp...) I learned this long ago on my own.
very interesting video, i am a 100% delay in the loop person (Carbon Copy in a JMP with a zero loss loop) - however on your video I actually preferred the sound of the delay in front. I will give it a try on my rig and see what happens :)
I've only been playing for about three years so I'm new to your channel but I subscribed because of the jiu jitsu shirt lol!!
I use a lot of front end distortion in both my amps, but I prefer using all my effects in front of them. That includes modulation and delays. I have a multi-channel Mesa/Boogie MarkIV and a single channel Marshall JCM 800.
Your presentation has come so far. These early videos, even though they have excellent information, are so much harder to follow than your new videos with the shadow boxes to show what effects are active and the multiple cameras, etc. Great job evolving to make the videos so much easier to follow (while I'm multitasking, LOL).
Yup I would agree. I've been deep diving into That Pedal Show to get my understanding of all things stompy an ampy up to scratch. The newer vids are def easier to follow, where's here I'm rewinding a lot - though sleep dep from last nights binge watching and playing doesn't help
great vid guys I always run delay/reverb in a instrument level metro amp FX loop on both my amps. way to muddy in front when you add more delay times or deeper reverbs when in front... on digital pedals.. strymon and eventide are still digital effects. I had a mobius but never dug it so I tried the eventide H9 and feel its much better overall. both strymon and eventide should be in a instrument level loop for the best audio and less issues..imo , but in the end its up to the individual musicians ears.
NOW video showing 2 amps in stereo with H9 pre/ post and H9 in both amps fx loops (stereo) with the humdinger and G2!!
Great show. Makes me think b4 I plug! I now play alot of acoustic and would love to see a review of the new digitech Mosaic using both an acousti and a tele. In andoutof the effects loop. Thanks guys!
Five years later this was very usefull for me; thank you
Very informative 👍🏼
That Pedal Show is far and away THE best pedal show, these two are the dynamic duo of pedal reviews. One thing I must mention is Mick always brings things into focus for the layman when Dan gets techy - this is an invaluable aspect of this already naturally excellent partnership. I partially agree with Daniel - though they did not mention this too much - especially for mod pedals adding color to the overall tone rather than fundamentally changing it, which is a GREAT sound... I put them PRE dirt, PRE loop. i.e.: My mod pedals are right after compression... and I LOVE THEM THERE - but delays and verbs (unless I'm going for a specialized sound) I will keep on the back end.
Interesting video, especially as I don’t have an amp with an effects loop it’s interesting to find out what they’re all about
Now this is a show I can appreciate.
I like to run my Dr. Scientist Reverberator in the loop, but not my delays so much. I like my delay dark, warbly, and analog. That reverb has a great JFET circuit that gives my sound a bit more clarity and definition. Kind of like the ep booster would but a bit smoother. And it's just a killer reverb pedal. Love the plate sounds on it.
I put my Yamaha SPX900 in the FX loop of my Mesa Formula Pre amp, (Formula Pre Amp has a 'blend' in the FX loop),
and into my Peavey Classic Series 50/50 tube amp. Excellent sounds! Just like Dan said , "gain structure". (The Yamaha SPX 900 is a true line level rack mount unit which I used mainly in my FOH FX racks. I had this lying around and just wanted to give it a try. The Mesa Formula Pre Amp, SPX900 and Classic Series50/50 power amp are all rack mount. I put my other pedals direct into the Mesa pre amp. Best sounding rig (for me) that I have ever played through. (Except when I played through a real Dumble.)
I use an amp that has the perfect drive tones, and there's pedals I don't like in front of distortion being generated by the amp, so they go in the effects loop. A parallel effects loop versus the series loop (found in most amps) preserves the amp's tone, there's blend knob to bring in the effects.
Love the "Taylor and girl singer" digs, spot on ahahaha!!!
Hmmm I think I liked reverb most in the loop but I could do delay in either place depending on use... solution? Strymon TimeLive in the loop, Jam Delay Llama in front, Chase Tone Secret Preamp in front of that! I've seen this before twice but revisited it. Good job demonstrating the pros and cons. FX loop can sound just right seems like sometimes or way too refrigerator rack sounding at other times . Maybe running straight in and adjusting the settings would be fine as long as you're not getting any more than mild tube compression.
I feel fortunate to own a '94 Groove Tubes Soulo 75 amp that has a parallel effects loop! It's the best effects loop design in my opinion.
I know this is an old video but I hope you guys see this. I'm using a Way Huge Echo Puss in the loop of my Mesa Rectoverb, and it absolutely destroys my signal. Loss in volume and fidelity when its on. But with it in front of the amp, it behaves so wildly differently from channel to channel that it isn't an option. You wouldn't happen to know if the way huge delays are built for line level or not would you? I'm so frustrated because I love the pedal, but its useless currently.
Live, and loud... I always put my order as....
Amp: Laney LC50ii
Front: Reverb, chorus
Parallel loop: Delay, Boss LS2 looping 2 phasers (effects level about 70%)
It adds an amazing honk to my Laney and the delay into the phaser means the phaser is kept moving rather than repeating a moment of the phaser. I blend the phaser in as loud it can be too dominant.
14:44 when you think about how good ur sound is gonna be after watching this video
great video, thanks for the info. I use the fx loop on my Peavey 6505 with G major.. and to add to the anti fx loop talk; most fx loops have a certain amount of bleed... so my expression pedal (to achieve volume build ups or to mute the guitar when tuning) doesn't fully silence the guitar.
when the expression pedal is set to its minimum (i.e. G major 0 volume) the fx are completely muted.. but you can still hear the guitar (without the fx) because the fx loop has bleed
running my fx (and expression pedal) up front would solve this but since my other fx are in the loop I havnt bothered. I live with it, but its annoying
Hey guys - I'd love a video about running effects in parallel.
I mean even with a single amp, let's connect Tuner/aux out to Volume return and Volume send to 10ST return (with 10M send & return bridged) and then move the volume loop!
Inserting the volume after loop 10 might be harmful though
Guys - great series of videos. Given you advice in Compressors 101 about compression being better after gain/drive stages would a compressor work in the loop? I note I have clean boost separate ahead of drive pedals and preamp so compression is for the effect not just boost.
Sounds better in front of the amp ,my amp doesn't have a fx loop so now i have my answer great demoThanks
one of the best channels on youtube...
Hey.. just rewatching this and noticed your Gracie shirt! Thats awesome man!
Makes total sense. There some really great amps with awful loops!!!! If your using older stomps,make sure it is an instrument level loop or you will clip your delays especially. Unfortunately these types of loops require rack gear,and that doesn't always work either.
Hello Mick and Dan, I really love your vids and ALWAYS learn a lot from you. Right now I'm searching for some info in plugging the guitar directly in the Power amp in jack (off course with a preamp after the guitar and before the power amp). I have a Hot Rod Deluxe and as you guys showed up in one of your vids since this amp has no master volume for the power amp, when you plug in the power amp in the power amp is full completely open. Could you please shed more light on this? Thank you so much from Venezuela
I run all my effects in the front of the amp. I might change that for one amp with my chorus only because it has a separate fx level for the clean/crunch and od1/od2 channels. I like to use clean with and without chorus but its hard to switch off chorus and switch to distortion at the same time.
I may have to find a a few extra cables to try the loop on my amp. I've put a boost in the loop to drive the power tubes before and was very satisfied with the result but with only short patch cables I can't turn the pedal on and off while playing. I don't have the foot switch for the amp either so I can't even switch the whole loop out.
I use a Foxx Tone Machine Fuzz in the effx loop of a peavey classic 50 and it radically improves the sound of the amp. Huge and harmonic
Great vid learnt heaps, knowledge is tone....
Great stuff. I'd have loved to have heard a Memory Boy or other BBD delay, or a Spring reverb to hear how more lo-fi time effects sound in the loop (Don't have one myself) - but definitely good for those curious.
Any thoughts on using modulation like Flanger/Phaser/Trem in the FX loop?
Being that I run a few pedals, and I watched your Compression 101 about OD before comp, and I get my drive from my preamp, I'm thinking of using my Pulp n' Peel JHS comp in the loop, as I always leave it on. Maybe unmount it from my board and just stick it on top of the amp.
Thanks for your videos. As a pretty average recreational player, I've been able to learn a lot. I have a couple questions that are probably silly, but what about pedals that aren't overdrive, modulation or delay/reverb? I have a pitch shifter and compressor early in the chain, and a looper and drum machine (beat buddy) late. Should any of those go in the effect loop (5150iii)? Or literally just reverb and delay? My others are over drives and modulators which I now know to put in front. Thanks, sorry for my ignorance, cheers.
Hi Guys, greetings from Canada!
Love your videos!
Would you please note in each video whether the pedals are going through the effects loop or straight in front? That would be really helpful! Thanks so much!
Great post guys. Had a question. You mentioned that you thought it best to include one's delay and reverb pedals in the effects loop. How does that apply when you don't use a reverb pedal but have a tube amp with a spring reverb? Is a spring reverb (since its already part of the amp) considered to be "in the loop"?
Completely depends on the amplifier (as you said). I have a Mesa Mini Rectifier that absolutely hates reverb and delay into the front - it just sounds awful and I use a vintage hot JCM800 sound...definately no Djent :-). My Vox AC30 loves all the effects into the front, it just sounds awesome. For me it unfortunately means 2 different set ups but all part of the fun ;-)
Good discussion of the routing/sonic considerations (front end vs effects loop). Most guitarists perform and/or record using an amp in some configuration. However, increasingly guitarists are using their guitar and pedals - via an audio interface - injecting directly into their DAW, and running their signal through amp simulators and Impulse Responses (IRs). Have you considered doing a show for those of us who record In-the-box? For example, what, if any, do you think are pluses and minuses or considerations of such an approach? Also, guitarists are increasingly using their pedals as send-effects. Any thoughts?
I use individual analogue pedals to the front of the valve amp and my boss me 80 multieffects to the loop of an old expensive solid state amp to have the best from both worlds but in the end it is a matter of taste as long as you have good equipment really!
Cool video! Recently discovered this channel and I love the video's and the topics that are covered. What I also love is that (for the most part, not this video of course) actual clean amps are being used to show pedals etc. It's always so frustrating that when you're looking for a pedal demo, every demo is played on a cranked amp or amp that's breaking up, to make it sound beter, or to cover up that it doesn't sound good into a clean amp. BTW, what's the drive in this video? Angry Charlie?
Glad you like the vids :) yeah, the angry Charlie on this one :)
Great show as always! I feel like one thing should be cleared up about parallel fx-loops though. Say you run a Delay and a Reverb in the loop like you do in this video. The internal signal path of these pedals look something like this (although very simplified):
-> Dry (just guitar) -> Dry (guitar+delay)
Signal from preamp -> Delay ->Dry+Wet blend -> Reverb
-> Wet (just delay) -> Wet (just reverb)
If you set both the delay and reverb to kill the dry signal (like you said in the video, although it might not be what you meant!) , you will loose the delay and only get reverb signal, since the "dry signal" going into the reverb actually carries the delay too. Therefor, only the FIRST pedal in the parallel fx-loop should be set to dry kill, otherwise you'll get just the effect of the last pedal :) Again, great show, I'm always looking forward to what comes next! Just wanted to clear some things up that weren't super clear in the video!
Hi Dan, hi Mick! Love your video on this topic. Just wondering, i understand the pros and cons in placing the effects in front or in the loop for tube amps, but nowadays, lots of solid state amps are equipped with fx loops as well. How does the loop works on a SS amp? Is it the same principle as the tube amp?
So cool!! But how did he set up the switcher so that he can switch between running delay and reverb in front or in the loop????
What kind of an effect would this have if I am running my guitar through a DI box and passing the signal through the box to both my preamp for recording but also my amp so I cam mic it and record both the direct line and miced amp?
so question towards the end of the video at 23:36 if your amp doesn't have parallel effect loop option just a regular FX loop send and return should you just plug your reverb and delay pedal in normally without touching the kill/dry switch inside. And if so should I change the GTR input to LINE input on the pedals or leave that stock as well.
So much good infoz!