Delay Subdivision Basics (Has Mick Got It Yet?)
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2015
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In this episode, Daniel explains to Mick how delay subdivisions work... very slowly and patiently.
It's a very simple concept, but sometimes even the most simple things evade otherwise semi-able brains (eh Mick?).
Daniel uses an Electro Harmonix Memory Man Deluxe and a Free The Tone Flight Time Digital Delay to explain quarter-, eight-, dotted-eight and 16th-note subdivisions, sounding a little bit like The Edge along the way.
Daniel is playing his Fender Custom Shop ’63 Telecaster through a Vox AC30 and Mallard 18-watt Marshall clone.
The GigRig G2 is handling amp and effects switching effortlessly, as always.
Enjoy this video, and for more on TheGigRig, visit www.thegigrig.com - Hudba
Subdivisions! Conform or be cast out.
Mick is great for bringing it down to basics, love Daniel he's amazing but he sometimes is a bit advanced in his explanations - Mick helps bring it all home. After 41 years of playing I learned something new (to me) today - thanks again guys!
Daniel, I think you guys should do this again on the new channel. But this time bring in a drum machin so people understand in context! One more thing I think that would help massively is if you did a 5 most used delays (say, delays that you find on working guitarists banks - a funk, a balade, a rockabilly, a lead, a driven rhythm) Thank you in advance
Oh God
I accidentally opened this in two tabs and for 5 minutes, 5 endless minutes, was thinking if i'd gone insane of if you forgot to disable delay on voiceover track.
Great show guys, very informative!
Just taaap it in... taaap it in... give it a little tappy... tap-tap-taperoo!
Wonderful stuff. I can't believe how much learning/teaching you manage to cram in to your videos. The format is excellent for me as an advanced/intermediate guitarist, and Mick is great at pulling things back to ask the questions that I'd ask if I was there. Thanks so much for your efforts in sharing your considerable experience.
+Peter Marshall And I love the Candy-Apple Telecaster.
Coolest show ever, and having Mike on-board is such a big value! Keep it up guys!!!
Man, your videos are top notch! I'm a grateful soul. Thank you for sharing your time, effort, and talents with us. Your videos have become a staple in my evening wind down routine. Cheers!
The Strymon Timeline makes this really easy to see.
So happy to hear that Riff's is still there. My band played there many times back in the early 2000's from the U.S.A.
Thanks guy's I've watched this video a couple of times now, you have helped me understand more about delay and the importance of the context. I'm sure I'll watch it again :-)
I know its an old one, but great video. Love that more than just the sound(s) of the pedal(s) are discussed.
good area to cover...its interesting all of the rhythm conundrums you run into when working delays into your music...well explained Dan! i can only imagine what fresh hell you run into using 2 delay units in sequence!
Great show guys, keep them coming.
Would love to see your take on flangers....
The more into delays that I get the more I realise that a tap tempo is kinda essential. Very awesome and informative episode guys, thanks.
+Tïr Eoghain Blackman the memory man lacks tap tempo
I love your show. Always looking for new vids. Keep it up guys!
Playing dotted eighths on an analog delay without a tap tempo is a bit like jumping into jump rope double dutch. You have to hear the delay as the dotted eighth polyrhythm to a quarter note pulse you hear in your head before you can jump in. It's easier to jump in if you listen to a lot of dotted eight delay and get used to the sound of the polyrhythm. If you write out the counts of a bar of sixteenth notes and circle every third count, you'd have dotted eighths. The capitalized beats below represent the dotted eighth delay, while you'd be counting the one, two, three, and four beats and playing eighth notes based on that tempo.
ONE e and A two e AND a three E and a FOUR e and A
If you do a quick chord stab on the 1st beat of a basic 4/4 rock drum beat, you'd get repeats on a 16th note anticipation before the snare hit on the 2 beat, the eighth note after the 2 beat, 16th note behind the kick drum on beat 3, and a repeat right on the snare hit on beat 4. As you continue, the pattern changes as the 3 sixteenth notes move across the grid against the 4/4 beat. The pattern resolves (catches back up and lands on the 1 beat) every 3 bars.
+Jake Stewart Music that's awesome, thanks Jake
K
Excellent Happy Gilmore reference, Daniel. Thanks for another great episode!
Found this video really useful. Awesome stuff guys!
I love the lightbulbs going off over Mick's head the whole time haha. Good job.
lol i didnt see them and i cannot find them, timestamps plx?
The little Run Like Hell riff gave me goosebumps.
This video should have been released on October 21st 2015!! Great video as always guys. It would be an interesting video to see what you guys 'typically' have on your own gigging boards and why you have chosen certain pedals.
Great video, as usual.
I discover the clue about the tempo of the U2 songs with my old Yamaha DDS-100 Digital Sampler Delay. :)
Tremendously educational and fun. I finally get what's going off now. Finally!! Woop woop.
You guys make such great videos... keep up the good work.
Great lesson. I always had a hard time with sub divisions too! Thank you!
+Matt “Marshall” Bruce you're welcome ;)
Came for the informative portion of this video, stayed for the Delorean.
Love your videos you guys.
Always learning with you guys. Thanks!
Subdivisions... epic Rush tune! Oh, this isn't that? Opps. ;)
You guys had me cracking up at the Back To The Future comment! Haha.
I really dig the show with all the informative stuff. Most youtube guitar and gear videos with two people talking (cough*andertons*cough) are terrible and ridiculous. You guys aren't. Keep kicking musical ass!
I know how to use my delays, but I didn't know all the theory and terminology behind everything either. Don't feel bad Mick :)
Great video as usual, very informative. I might add just a consideration , for explain better the use of subdivision, generally speaking a 1/4 note subdivision give you some dept in the sound , while keeping the use of the delay pretty discreet , most of the repeat will be buried under what you play. Most of the time this is the way to go, unless you want to use the delay in a creative and more "invasive" way by using dotted notes subdivision, which makes the delay repeat out of sync with the song beat, giving the tasteful stuff that people like Nuno Bettencurt, David Gilmour or the Edge are well know about.
I should've found you years ago. I subbed.
This is such a great video detailing what all of us who have issues understanding subdivisions feel. Slow down, please say again...now I understand. sort of.
as usual a great video about a relevant topic
It was touched on (guitar), but another thing that is cool to do, plus helps with your picking technique, and your ear, is to play with the delay itself, as Brian May does in his playing. It takes a while to master, but has a cool affect. It can be seen/heard in videos of Brian's solo spots with Queen in concert.
It'd be great to see an episode on solid state amps and how to get the most out of them.
I can tell you that in a second, throw it in the creek and buy a real amp.
Guys, many thanks for this great tutorial!
I caught the Happy quote. Well done.
Great video. I learned alot, like all your vids. Thanks so much!
It would be quite cool with some guests on the show Rabea Massaad for example :D
- Daniel
Workin on it Danni :)
Cool :D
+Danni Guitars all for a bass special with dave hes the man
Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!
The secret to Edge's strat tone from Streets, Bad, and Pride is his Boss FA 1 clean boost. If you figure the delay out you are still only halfway there. The clean boost gives it that huge sound then add delay and of course Herdim pick is mandatory.
Clean boost plus Herdim pick then dotted eighth delay. Amp is really less important.
had to revisit this one
I love delays but never understood them really well. Is it weird that during the first 15 minutes, I've been thinking the same questions that Mick just asked?!
Quite helpful video! At this point, guys, I suggest you should put up some illustrations/captions if you can. 😀 Cheers!
I'd have to say guys, once I got the TC triple delay, I thought my search for delay was over with all the options, ridiculous piece of delay madness! Love the trem in the strymon timeline, nifty setting!
+Barry Provost Official CZcams cheers Barry, we big fans. Check out the vid we did with Tore on the TPS channel. The new stuff sounds ace!
Daniel TheGigRig great episode with Tore, I watched a couple times! Haha loving the new channel, and making it a goal to watch every single one. You just have a couple good ones on your channel that we're answering a few questions I had. Thanks again for being such a great resource in this tonal technological golden age for guitar! :)
Usually Mr. The Edge is underrated and you have to watch and understand all the content of this video to really understand how clever, smart and good he is. The argument usually is: Edge is all about delay. Ok and if it was true (which is not)... what is the problem? just because he uses delay, as other guitarists do, it doesn´t mean he´s not playing or that he´s lazy... on the contrary, and as it´s said in the video: it´s the way you play against the delay!!! That´s what people don´t really understand and is well explained on the video... you have different ways to play, depending on the subdivision of delay you are using. Imagine The Edge that uses 2 delays in paralel on his most important songs, you have to have a great brain :P Thanks for this great video!!
Roberto T.M. Back in the Stone Age I was in a band and I was desperate to be The Edge, and I wasn't shy about it. I learned a lot about how to use delay, but I just learned so much more watching this video. Anyway, in my efforts to replicate his sound, I really came to appreciate his genius. By its very nature, electric guitar is a special effects instrument, and no one has ever delved into effects quite like Edge (and if I'm being intellectually honest, David Gilmour belongs there with him - in fact, Edge has said that Gilmour was an influence on him if I'm not mistaken) I suppose you could include Tom Morello, too, but I've always felt his use of effects is just too gimmicky. Guys like David Gilmour and The Edge incorporated effects into their music seamlessly. For Edge, I believe that will be his legacy and lasting contribution to guitar.
Thank you guys so much!!!
I'd love to see a video on the different styles and types of fuzz and muff pedals. and the differences between them.
Thanks for clearing that up :-)
This is great. So much nonscense on youtube, but this is really really good. Thanks
thanks, mick my mind works like yours, I need that explanation to understand too
also it's be great to see a video on the amp in a box pedals and how close they get to the actual amps they are based on.
Taking into consideration that you guys generally demo and explain stomp box/analog/digital effects. Would you ever consider demoing and giving your opinion on a floor unit like the new Line 6 Helix?
There's a lot of hype surrounding the ease of use and genuine authentic analog tone of this unit and I can think of no one who's opinion's I trust and respect more than yours with regards to giving a detailed and totally unbiased review.
Figured it'd be worth asking seeing you can still use the Gig Rig in conjunction with it.
Thanks and keep up the great work :)
You're not going to get the sound of the memory man out of a helix. Or a good univibe. J.S. helix is for wannabes IMHO. and lazy musicians that can't afford the real deal.
Don't forget Andy Summers was doing what "Mr.The Edge" became famous for first ! I would imagine Summers was a big influence? Of coarse all roads in the delay world lead back to Les Paul :) Great video guys, keep up the good work for the world of guitar nerds !
Gilmour as well
Dan, you're the most patient man ever. However, I think I still need a 1 on 1 lesson on delays... Lol
I needed this video ! Great !
You’re welcome 🙏
Also make sure to ride the eq on your delay, high eq makes it pop, turn it low and it muffles it down
I've learned that i know a lot about delay. but it is my favorite effect....
Dotted eighths .. .. .. ..
Steve Hillage .... showing my age ? Then long time later: The Edge
Vegetable rights and peace !!
My old Yamaha D1500 Delay was great for timed echoes. Early digital though it was it had/has memories.
Big fan of the Flight Time here, curious to get your thoughts on it. Thanks!
Great stuff, thanks
Do any delay pedals require 1.21 Gigawtts to power them? ;) Awesome show as usual guys. You explain things better than any professor I ever had and much more fun.
And, certainly David Gilmour was using dotted 1/8 delay before U2 got out of primary school. I don't know if anyone had done it before him or not. Even before the wall, there's dotted 1/8 delay on the bass on the Meddle album.
I've been practicing 16th note picking to try and sound like the Edge this whole time...I can probably 16th note better than he can now! LOL I know your secrets Mr. the Edge...
Hey Mick. if you want to work it out mathematically...
Dotted 8th note delay time for 120bpm
60,000 divided by 120 = 500ms
(8th note) 500ms divided by 2 = 250ms
(16th note) 500ms divided by 4 = 125ms
dotted 8th = 375ms at 120 bpm
regards,
tweed
Yep. And 500 divided by 1.5 = 333ms for a “triplet eighth” (the “3” of the 1 2 3 1 2 3 etc).
For 25 years I had created a delay settings table, for various tempos, with ms values for qtr note, eighth, triplet eighth, dotted eighth, etc. Then I painstakingly plotted approximate (but close) delay time (ms) points on the delay knob of my pedal (e.g. Maxon AD80, MXR CC). Then, on set lists I’d note where to set the slap back on certain songs, e.g. 2:00, 2:30, 4:00 etc. Example: “Sultans of Swing” needs a dotted eighth slap back; bpm = 150; therefore they slap back is 300 ms (or 5:00 on my AD80 pedal knob).
Thank you! I need this too. I feel daft
great explanation! thanks.
thanks for the lesson.
Great...as always!
IT'S YOUR HOME! ARE YOU TOO GOOD FOR YOUR HOME!
+Benjamin Klein hahahahaha!!
Great video! This channel and That Pedal Show have helped me immensely... Unfortunately I am late to the show (not a drummer)! I've subscribed to this channel and That Pedal Show's channel. One thing to suggest as a follow on video: How would you apply subdivisions and delay rhythm to 3/3, 6/6, or other time signatures?
3/3 is just the same as 3/4 but with three beats played in the same time as another piece of music playing at the same time plays 4 beats (but also with 3 beats per measure). In isolation, they are identical (except in bpm), and the distinction meaningless without the quarter note per beat music as context.
6/6 is essentially the same idea applied to 6/8 music with 6 beats being played in the same time as another part plays 8 beats (but also with 6 beats per measure).
Since you won't find even the most boutique delay available with a dotted "third", just tap out your "thirds" and apply the appropriate division. Or use an online delay time calculator.
Or do the math yourself. (60,000 ms/min)/ (number of bpm) = delay in milliseconds. With quarter notes as your beats, multiply by 0.75 to arrive at your delay for a dotted eighth. Use the exact same math to arrive at the dotted "sixth" in your 3/3 meter counting your bpm as "thirds" per minute.
edited for clarity
This was great, thanks.
great video lads!
Dan desperately needs a whiteboard to diagram stuff for Mick. :-)
I keep thinking Mick is gonna break that Strat holding it with the neck pointing down to the ground...yipes!
I have a question : I own the tc electronic flashback delay. The switch it has for subdivisions says 1/4 note, dotted eigth and "a combination of both". Isn't the pedal's dotted eigth actually a regular 8th, and the "combination" the actual dotted eighth that The Edge uses and that is explained in this video? Thanks to anyone that can help
Great video but please tell me about multi tap delays now, it's not the same thing as subdivisions is it? Is it a rhythm from the taps that is then repeated as a quarter note or not? Thanks
08:00 Daniel's response made me laugh so hard!
This is great! Thanks!!!!!
I still struggle with delay. But basically Dotted 8th note (what we are all trying to hit, that " the edge" effect) subdivisions are dialed in like this-
Volume- @ or slightly higher than unity
Time- @ just under .5 seconds usually around 10- 11 o'clock on most pedals
Feedback/ repeats- @ 1 full repeat then a subtle trail.so like 1.5.
And DO NOT MATCH THE TEMPO OF THE DELAY! Learn to play to a click or run dry monitor headphones till you get the " feel" of the subdivision.
i may be off.or totally wrong.like i said delay is still not something im super proficient with honestly i usually use the flashback 2 as a crutch for setting up subdivisions.it kinda does 3/4 of the work for you.
And another thing... stacking delay pedals. Surely if I have one delay pedal after another, the second delay will simply fire from the repeats of the first and things will get crazy and horrible. Is it best to run two delays in parallel rather than in series?
The one question I have had about delay is how do you get Andy Timmon's delay tone?
Does this mean that any and all dotted anything notes means that the repeat will be happening on the down beat?
intro sounds like corporate training music
Totally got the Happy Gilmore reference. Don't worry Dan, you aren't alone! Just give it a little tap-tap-tap-a-roo!
I got my Delay from the Lybians, should I start wearing a vest?
The other Dave, doesn't he use two delays for a sound on sound thing? I think Run Like Hell is around 440, not sure
Check out Iris...the Edge definitely still uses it...
Could you guys do a video on the order of modulation effects? I never know whether to put my delay before my tremolo or the other way around.
+Brandon Tedesco delay after trem generally. For super choppy type stuff trem after delay can have a cool effect though. As with most things, experiment, and see which way you prefer it :)
That memory man... so lush..
Brilliant!
You so needed a diagram for this!
Hey guys I love your show it is so informative one of the best guitar shows on You Tube in my opinion. I have a request I have a digiTech PR200 it is a dinosaur compared to what is on the market today but I love it. Will you do a show on DigiTech products ?
+Aurora meddle will certainly have a look at some
+Daniel TheGigRig
Thank you sir
it's friday and it's funtime
A dot multiplies the TIME VALUE of a given not by 1.5, so a dotted 1/4 not has the total duration of (and plays essentially the same as) a 1/4 note tied to an 1/8 note.
What Tele is dan playing? AM Standard or custom shop? Loved the look and sound of it on many videos
It's an early 2000s Custom Shop. On the TPS channel they have a series of gear videos that each of them did about their main guitars.
Love Riffs! Where's Andy??
great video. incorporating metronome would have been really helpful
I think having event the most basic shell of a song or few measures looped, even way back in the background would have helped the explanation when you’re trying to explain a highly contextual idea like subdivisions. But good work here, just the same.
What is that Dan's tele? Pickups?
It also means I don't have to work even 1 32nd of how hard & fast i usually play & I can get these killer sounds
My confusion level didn't drop as expected through the show. Nice show tho. Did learn something.