Update to the Carrera Slot Car Track.. to R1 or not to R1.. that is the question?
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- čas přidán 24. 02. 2023
- The new layout is up and running. A week in and I am concerned that one of the lanes will have a huge competitive disadvantage. The R1 turn is really tough and causes the slow lane to be behind by at least a second every lap. Dave from @slotr made some suggestions and i sort of massaged the changes to fit the track pieces I already have. What do you thing?
Thanks to Bruce at @drsaleen88 for help with some of the track pieces.
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Firstly, thank you so much for the massive shout out 🤩 Secondly, I think your changes to my changes are even better! That first turn now opens up gradually like the ones I modified on mine in that recent video I did, it feels like a real racing line then, the old "slow in fast out". That last section also looks really good. I do still think using " Narrows" sections (Carrera 30351 I think) will smooth out the pit lane entrance, I'm going to do that next as I'm running non mag digital cars and they hate the standard pit entry :)
Thanks for the help! Between Jamie’s initial ideas and your changes, I think we will end up with a really enjoyable experience.
@@twolinesslotcars I'm nearly getting on a plane and flying 4000 miles West to run some laps
Love the new layout Marty🤙🏻
My 2¢...
A slotted car, is a happy car.
1. When racing digital, you have a workaround to somewhat remedy those problem corners.
Analog is where the issue would be apparent.
2. In racing, a second is huge, that second causes frustration and more marshalling.
3. Just like in the real world, not everyone's as good a driver as you perceive yourself.
Remember... less is more (frustration, tears, marshalling, money) and flow is key.
Enjoy 👍🏻
Thanks John!
Marty testing out the proposed changes is what I suggest, I do like Dave’s proposed changes I think once you set it up that way you will too.
Agreed!
I love how you can make the track flow with Carrera and their curves and like the changes Dave made to the right side of your track. It looks good and looks like it flows well as you approach the turn leading to the front/pit straight. But I also think most tracks need a little technical driving and I like the look of your R1. I would try the hybrid approach and leave the R1 and change the right side to Dave's plan. Remember, it's digital so you can always change lanes to go around the outside of the R1. Love your channel!
Thanks Jay! I appreciate the kind words. We really enjoy the flow at the moment and both lanes are very competitive with each other when we race analog. That was my goal. I don’t mind technical parts to the track when we are racing digital, but when racing no magnets and analog, the r1 really created a big gap between lanes.
I may be quite new to slot cars but it seems to me that it’s not so much the turn as its the speed, which the driver has total control over 😂and it’s the technical sections that will test and develop a drivers skills. 🤔
Completely. I think back when I did this video.. we were about developing “flow” to the track.. looking for a wood track sort of flow or feel… that was mostly influenced by our club track. We now have R1 turns all over the 4 lane layout 🤷🏻♂️ the challenge is what makes it fun and develops better driving skills. You are not wrong.. 👍
Its looking good! Ive pinned down the inner part of some corners,using nails and the red connectors, then I bank them about as much as can be done. So far it works great. Most real race tracks have banking to some degree built in to corners.
To me, the difficult corners are what keep it interesting.
Thanks Brad! I am trying to even out the lanes.. but you are always going to have a fast lane and a slow lane…🤷🏻♂️
We are racing on a 104' layout that has quite a few #1 curves in it. 9-60 degree and 4-30 degree in total. It does force you to slow down but that is basically the point of driving the cars to meet the layout. Because they are used in 5 of the 9 total curves each lane has a similar amount of insides and outsides. Changing lanes can attempt to circumvent this but the lane changers are strategically placed to not allow completely taking advantage. Using the #1 curves in combination with higher radius also keeps things interesting. Looks like your track in mostly flat on the table except for where it goes over the other section. Try shimming up the outside of your sharper corner to partially bank it to see what happens.
Good Racing
Keep up the fun content
Thanks Dave! I am always tweaking the layout. We will see where it takes me. 😂
I wish I had the space for a great layout like yours. I just got back into slot cars and set up my new layout.
Welcome back!! I feel very fortunate to have the space.
Hey Marty Either track designs looks great Ilike the way the last track flows in both troubled areas
Thanks 👍, Shane, I am not opposed to a tricky section.. but it does cause a big difference in lap times between the lanes.
I like the flow of Dave's suggestions.
Thanks Dan. Yes, it is a great recommendation. We will see how it goes
months late here, but I really agree the change will be better flow with your change and widened corner, I prefer max flow
It was a great layout.. may go back to it at some point.. we have now built a 4 lane and are having a great time!
Hi Marty, I like Dave’s changes. I’ve struggled myself with the issue of a decreasing radius turn like your R1 curve. On one hand, a decreasing radius turn IS challenging and requires practice & skill…..both good things. But on the other hand as you mentioned it can be problematic for novices or guests that you host. I finally gave up on decreasing radius curves for that exact reason because I host a lot of youngsters and twice-a-year family members.
Good luck with whatever you decide. Love your interest, channel, content & projects…it’s a great hobby in a great new era.
Best, Steve
Thanks Steven! I have made some changes.. and the new changes presented new problems Lol. I appreciate the kind words.
Marty agree with you about Dave. He is very low key and has a great sense of humor
Agreed!
I tended to tinker with the track layout. My goal was to keep a layout for two to three weeks to keep running the cars fresh. But if there was section(s) that had a higher chance to damage winged cars I would modify to layout to smooth the turn(s). Having a bunch of 1/4 and 1/3 straights are always a good to add a smidge of extra length or make the track fit together without as much stress on the Carrera red connector pins.
Thanks Chris.. I think I’m honing in on the proper layout.. I really enjoy the ability to change it up.
I used to race on scalextric tracks about 30 years ago and we had the hairpin 180 curves from scalextric. I find it interesting that folk find the huge (in comparison) carrera R1 difficult to get round. But i do understand your thinking if you have novice or younger drivers on the track and you want to keep things flowing which is something i will have to think about in the future, maybe reducing to speed of the track when less experienced drivers are racing and slowly increasing the speed as they improve might help 🤔..Harry
That’s the beauty of an adjustable power supply or a digital system. You can control the speed.
By now you are probably well into implementing your latest diagram, and I think you've found a good solution to the issues of flow and time difference. But save your R1 pieces for later down the road (pun intended) when you want to re-introduce a technical section into a future layout. Keep in mind: if you balance a left-hand R1 with a right-hand R1 in your layout, each lane gets an equal challenge in radius AND time lap time. Or you can balance the challenge of unequal lanes by racing in heats; combining time and lap count at the end of the race. ("What goes around comes around.") Understood: digital cross-overs make it possible to choose a better racing line, but everyone has the same opportunity. Finally, if you take the challenge, I also have some extra pieces including inside/outside borders for those nasty R1 curves!
Bernie! It is ready for you to come run some laps on! Thanks for the advice.
I think the first layout was fine, Its just practicing getting around that turn. But now that you have made changes are not bad either. I wished that I lived near you because I would love to run on your Track. I like your track because I like to challenge sharp turns. That's what makes it more fun.
It is a fun layout! I should host a race day! 😊
Marty, I would make the changes to what Dave sent. When I had some "mixed" curves R3 and R1 combined, it really was tough to drive. When I smoothed the curves to have consistent ones together, much more enjoyable to drive. I'm envious of your space!
Thanks Steve. I am fortunate to have the space I do.. it gives me lots of options for sure! Thanks!
I'd try your revised layout. Decreasing radius turns are tricky but generally don't decrease then suddenly increase right after from what I've seen. I'd say try both revised layouts (try yours first since you have the track pieces for it) and see which one you like more.
Thanks Josh.. working on dates for race night.. I’ll let you know.
Slow down for the tight curves haha. You’ve got a boat load of lane changes so I don’t consider one tight turn a problem. Switch lanes. Regardless, I like your modified layout best which also utilizes existing track. That layout is better. I’m on my ninth or tenth iteration for my layout. I had turn issues at one end of the track that didn’t feel right. I just kept changing it until now I have a layout that feels good all way around. I’ve also noticed that I had to tweak the braking settings for the cars on my different layouts. You didn’t mention that but I see that as a big deal.
I know… probably being a little knit picky.. but my concern was less for digital racing and more for analog no mag racing.. most important is getting a second difference in timing between each lane. Yes, I often forget to adjust the brakes.. since it is not on the controller but in the computer. Good call!👍
I like that you found something similar to the proposed track changes without having to buy the additional track. Fitting everything in and including enough extensions so the cars don't ride the guard rails is important in a layout if you are trying to make the lanes more equal. That requires also an overpass so you can balance inside and outside turns per lane. My first track design I had a few "cotter pin" sections. Realized this was a problem area so my new track avoids those. The way you gradually ease into that turnaround looks better to me, and you avoided having to buy more track. I have never used R1 sections, but could see where that could cause issues.
Meant to add that you have all of the things I mentioned that are important going already and with the proposed changes even better. Nice job!
You might try some elevation on the S curve section if you find that there is an issue with clearances for the extensions where those overlap. The only drawback is visibility to the rest of the track depending on POV.
Thanks Nate! The changes I made to this layout design was all about visibility issues on my previous layout.. but a slight elevation would not hurt..
@@twolinesslotcars glad to share my experience, as I have learned a ton from others. Wanted to share this where after recording I found and issue with my track. I commented in the video: czcams.com/video/YVrDrXV-BqU/video.html
I like the revised Dave layout. If you look at the revised turn itself. the easing up on the radius makes it look and feel to be simple. BUT the added shallow reverse sweep immediately after you exit (radius 1 to the left) will catch some people into paying more attention. Also the revised turn is basically the same as the start to your S's above it. To me it presents a challenge driving no magnet but not a drastic transition.
Thanks Jeff D! We will see how it plays out
I think that course is good as is. Removing all the challenge makes it no fun. In the heat of racing that R1 will separate the men from the boys.
That is what I called that turn when I was designing it.. lol thanks Billy!
I don't think there's anything wrong with R1s I've got two 180 degree R1 sets in my lap, but an R1 in between R2s just throws the car out of balance mid turn which is no fun with no magnets
@@slotr You think my top left turn had bad flow? I disagree. Note the car in this video is magnetless: czcams.com/video/oJZVUAJLpHY/video.html
@@Sundayslotcars super smooth lap there 😁
Make the changes. I just finished my first layout, drove a couple of laps and was not happy with the flow. Some of those corners are have to be driven to be understood. I made the change in the editor, bought some more corners because I did not have them yet and are happy with the result now. Long story short… change it until you like it 👍🏻
Thanks Erik! I will probably make the changes and do a follow up video
I have a tight turn on my track where the “R1” (wood routed so I don’t have radius designations) comes at the end of a straight. So you are breaking into the turn. The R1 is followed by a more relaxed set of turns so you can ecelerate out of the turn into your next section. It adds a technical element that still has flow.
Paul, I agree! I needed to move the r1 to the front of the turn.. not the middle of the turn.. great advice for all track builders out there..
Older video so you’ve probably already decided, but wondering if you tried it reversing the direction of the track. That would have made the turn increasing radius instead of decreasing. I agree with the proposed change, too, so I’m sure it turned out great.
So we have been running the layout since March.. we love it. I built my own digital to analog converter box a few weeks ago so we could us our analog controllers. I am toying with the idea of a polarity switch so that we can do just that.. but need to look to see how that effects the lane changers.
I have 13 R1s in my 4X16 table, so I would recommend more R1s they really improved my skills.
Thanks! I am not opposed the the turn, just know I have the space to tinker and ultimately I want both lanes to be enjoyable for people.
I'm surprised your having that much trouble with that one R1 piece! Guess it shows the speed those cars are carrying off the front stretch. I get having a technical part to the track but when it breaks the flow of a corner and the feeling of the cars, it needs to go.
One thought that has bothered me after seeing the track on stream is how flat it is. What I would like to suggest is a rise to the back stretch peaking at the rear left corner of the track (turn 4 on existing plan), and then have it descend down through the esses. This will give your track some visual interest, and layering of the track, the front being low, mid track being mid height and rear being the highest, it shouldn't block any sight lines. The change in elevation through the corners can make things flow and feel different, so would need a test to see if it feels good, and it may also help your issue with the esses overlap on your modified slotr plan.
I am not having trouble.. it is a fun turn. But in the inner lane.. it really changes up the flow. I have about a 1 second difference in lane times.. I am just trying to even out the lanes more than anything.. the layout is fun.
@@twolinesslotcars I guess I didn't mean trouble as in a skill issue, more that it stuck out so much. I have found a decreasing radius turn like that to soften the often harsh R1 corners to the point they don't feel like R1's.
I'm not sure you are going to be able to fix the time difference between the lanes with your current layout. Your inside lane becomes the outside lane for the longest most sweeping corners of your layout which unless those corners allow that lane to run that much faster, then the inside lane may struggle to ever keep up. Will be interesting to see if the changes to the R1 corners bring the inside lane more in touch.
@@LionFace I made some changes and the lanes are more even.. some cars are faster in one lane than the other and Vice versa.. which is surprising. It is getting there. We like the flow at this point. I may play with elevations as you suggested. Thanks man!
G'day Marty, as I race anglog cars , it doe take time that R1 turn just back off as you go into the turn let the car roll though and then apply the gas
Thanks Rhys! I have the turn figured out.. my biggest problem was the difference between lane 1 and lane 2… a full second a lap.. I am trying to get them a little more even…we will see if the changes indeed do that!
Great video, I love thinking and learning about track design. I like your solution, only question I have is can you rearrange the order of the pieces to go from wider radius to tighter radius. Currently, it looks like several changes in radius through the full turn. I don’t run digital, but how does that R1 impact the optimal line around the track? Will it forces everyone to the faster lane all the way around? Looking forward to following this process
Tom, when racing digital… everyone hangs out in the fast lane.. lol
Hi Marty, Did you try adding.a few degrees of lift (banking), in that one tight corner. Just mike quarter inch at the most? Have found on my.track even without using magnets it was enough to help manage the g force pulling the back around.
Again, my track is no where's the caliber of yours. But it the principles of the angle of the dangle..as I say.
I did not add banking. I will try that and see how that helps. Thanks man!
Hey Marty i have about 100 ft with one jumper. How many r you using? Mine runs great but i think ine spot i can see car lights flicker so was just wondering how many power taps you have. Thanks
Frankie.. sorry I missed this question.. I have 4 power taps for almost 100 feet of lane length. I think the rule of thumb is about one every 30 feet of track. It became obvious when we ran more than 2 digital cars on the track and the cars would end up next to each other about mid track from the CU.. they would just crawl..
Morning Marty. I would give your revised SlotR layout a try. You already have the required pieces and it wouldn’t take much to change it. If you don’t like it you can always go back to what you have now.
My thoughts exactly Dave!!
Make the change and even out the lap times. Does this response seem quite selfish of me?
Lol.. we will see after you run a few laps.. I might wait until you try this layout first..
I’d go with your idea Marty, the less expensive route. At the end of the day it’s about having fun. Like you said before, you can make changes to plastic track. Good luck!
Thanks Injest! I appreciate the feedback!
There was a real Track on Long Island that had three grooves. One LINE had a giant bump that would rattle your eyeballs and shake your fillin's out in one lane. You would litterly have to gather it back up each time you would go through and feel almost airborne. DON'T MAKE THAT YOUR LANE!
😂😂
Marty, have you tried banking the R1 turn ever so slightly? My track is made up of all R1 turns and I found by banking them using construction shims purchased at HD 5 - 15 degrees made a very big difference in cornering speed.
Yes Jim, I have played around with that.. but it just made the fast lane even faster than the slower lane. I am trying to even out the lanes.. but that may just be impossible.
Hi Marty, I say make the changes if you have the track, you could always change it back, thats the beauty of plastic track layouts are forever flexible. I just wish I had more room so that i could eliminate all R1 turns from my layout
Thanks Gene!
Marty what is the size of the new track layout? Is it 7x14 feet?
Kevin, it is 8’x 24’. 97 feet of lane length.
Marty - too bad you couldn't do the changes AND keep the R1 curve . The sharp turn adds a challenge to your track making it more fun . An easy track becomes boring fast - but a challenging track helps improve your driving skills. Now just wait until you try a wooden routed track.
Thanks!! I am looking forward to getting on a wood track! Soon!!
Every body gets there turn in that lane. Whats good for the goose should work for the gander. If your not on the pole...the line forms to the rear
True, I am probably too worried about it
@@twolinesslotcars looks like everyone is having fun!
Hello Marty, make the changes that you like, NOW LETS PLAY.
Hey Marty! Roast has a super strong logo but you dont know what it means yet because it 's not been around. Needs the words "gourmet coffee" or "really good coffee" or "the worlds best coffee" around the logo. Also. You need a large coffer mug with logo. Not a plastic water bottle. Sorry 2b so knit picky.
The water bootle is what I had.. I made due. It is not my brand, I will leave those changes to the fine folks at Rost Coffee. Thanks for the comments.
Trim your borders for that overlap issue and that should take care of it.
Or, get the right thickness of MDF and cut your own borders.
Thanks Greg!!
I know you stated that your track had one lane 1 sec, slower than the other lane. I try to make sure that both lanes are about the same in length. Could this be the reason for the 1 sec slower.
Michael, lanes are the same length. With the changes I made the timing is within a couple tenths of a second…
I will be buying a slot car track soon.
Would you recommend Cararra or scalextric‘s track as the best?
Also car type.
Thx!
Russ, I have Carrera track. I would say it all depends on what type of room you have for your layout.. you can fit more track in a smaller space with Scalextric or Policar.. if you are going digital.. Carrera is the way to go.. I am super happy with my Carrera track.
@@twolinesslotcars thank you for advice 👌🏁
I would try both for a week or so, and go with the one that works best for you
That is the plan! Thanks John!
Make changes now so your not unhappy later ♥
It’s easy to go back if I don’t like it!
Hey Marty can u send me your track plan please. Not doing exactly just wanna tweek a few things if you don't mind. Thank you
Hey Marty. Let me know what pieces of track you need for Dave's changes. I have some extra sections laying around. I also may have some shoulder sections as well.
Thanks John! I appreciate the offer. I think I am good. It is amazing how much extra track you collect over a short period of time 😂
@@twolinesslotcars I get it brother. Hope you are doing well. See you Tuesday but I may be a bit late getting on. Take care.
Apex is the R1 piece. Tough. Can you make that the first or last piece on that turn?
I have played around with different scenarios.. more details to come.
I am not a fan of running on compound radius turns although they look cool they are difficult to navigate around. I don't mind R1 turns at all if they are a constant radius throughout the entire turn.
I agree Joe, they do present some challenges for sure. Thanks!
Everyone here is talking about changes to the track and nothing about changes to the cars reduce the center of gravity on the cars. Change tire compound, Add magnets are three of the solutions that the cars won’t lose it around those corners.
If you have a mandatory crossover, then everybody has to use both lanes
We are running no magnets for some classes. Would not even be a conversation if we were magnets only. Thanks for the tips!
I'm new and getting back into it. So....what's a "Check Lane?"
It is a sector timing point on the track. Gives you lap split times. If you are a stats person, it is a fun addition, I only have one.. but you can add multiple check lanes through out your layout.
Make the changes to Dave's using what you have!
I’ll let you know how it goes Gary!
What are the dimensions of this layout?
Patrick, it is 8’x24’ or 2.4m x 7.2m (I think). I have the plans.
Do the changes that you did.
I have rebuilt into a 4 lane!
Personally I think you should try the layout for a bit longer and then make the “tweaks” if you decide that the little R1 is just ruining the flow
Probably a good call 👍
What size is your table Marty?
8’x24’
I’d keep the R1 turn, it will keep you on your toes.
Thanks for the input!
I mean... if you don't want to slow down, then make a banked oval. Every real road course has a turn or two that you have to slow WAY down for. There's nothing wrong with using an R1 turn. Heck, Carrera R1 turns aren't even true hairpin turns. Try a Scalextric R1. Anyway, ANY car can be driven around ANY track without deslotting or sliding out too much. You just have to drive it properly. If you're coming out or sliding too much... slow down more and accelerate later.
Greg… it was more about making the lanes more even.. We had no problem negotiating the turn.. it was challenging though. The layout is great and we really enjoy it!
@@twolinesslotcars Ah, I just saw a lot of focus on that turn, and of course, your video title helped. ;-) I agree that your layout, as shown in this video, is great. It appears to have good flow, and since it's a figure-8, the lanes are equal. As you know, lanes are never perfectly "even" but equal lengths sure helps. :) I honestly didn't like the suggested changes much. I'd stick with your current one, IMHO. :)
On the other hand, I assume not one person will be racing.a dedicated lane. So technically every car will be having to DRIVE that section. imo
True..
You know what the doctor would say....
Don't use that lane🤪
😂
What about sensitive or punch on you remote
Danny, adjustments need to be made for sure!
@@twolinesslotcars how long are each lane? This could cause a time difference as well.