Introverted Feeling - Fi - Relations - Explained Correctly
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- čas přidán 10. 12. 2022
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"The valuing of R makes these types appreciative of the quality and stability of their personal relations with others, trying to judge and assess the inner qualities of a person to see if they are good to be friends with. Such people will attempt to maintain a certain distance between themselves and the other until then. Once deciding on the friendship, these types will prioritize their loyalties to that person, defending them over others when they are in need and emphasizing integrity in these relationships. These types tend to assign subjective value to their personal attitudes of like and dislike, as well as the opinions of those individuals they trust".
"Are they someone who has a good soul or a bad soul?" This is very literally the lens I view life through. Any selfishness, evil, or dishonesty IMMEDIATELY reveals to me whether or not I want to associate or engage. I have always found that whether someone or something is "good" vs "bad" is what motivates me and is the ultimate determining factor as whether or not I'll respect or include something/one in my life.
I am almost 9 minutes in but I just had to stop and say wow. I have never heard this explained in such a way that clicks the way this does. That is very much my internal process of attitudes towards things and people and once someone lets me down in a way that it changes my perception of them, that is now shifted into me viewing them in this new light going forward. I do give second chances as I want to hold open the possibility that I’m wrong, but it’s going to take a pattern of behavior to shift my perception of them all over again. Thank you so much for your description of this function, it’s very helpful so far.
Exactly. As a Fi user I could never relate to the mbti description , they say introverted feeling is being focused on what you re feeling but I'm so outer focused and constantly scanning what others feel think and how they are. I relate so much more to this description as it descripes fi as a static and not as a dynamic fe function. Fi being aware of the deep feelings in the moment either your own or the others feelings and having no desire to change them as that would be exhausting and have no real purpose, other than maybe fostering a better relationship in the present or future. I also liked your ni fe description in another video, because you talk about nife individuality, creativity and self expression something that is solely attributed to fi users in mbti and that is not necessarily the case.
You left out the part about Fi being associated with desires and wants. Wish you would have touched on that. What a person personally wants or desires - it makes Fi egos very good negotiators because they know exactly how to bargain with and appeal to the people they're interacting with.
I talked about intentions, which is the aspect of what you are talking about that is relevant to Fi.
This has been a lovely series of videos you have recently put out, they’re all very succinct, not too long yet well expressed. I’m glad that at 2:58 you mentioned that Fi has personal judgements towards things as well as people. This specifically is something that has been bothering me recently. I tend to see people online focus a lot on a person’s relationships with other people when trying to type them. I understand why that is, and I don’t think it’s wrong to do that, but I just think they focus too much on that and not enough on how Fi types relate to things, either material objects or immaterial beliefs/ideas. If the only way you can find someone using Fi is through observing their relationships to people, then that seems to make Fi way too people-dependent. I would like to think I could still type someone as an Fi-type even if they were placed in an environment completely devoid of other people, like a deserted island for example.
Quite right, some EIIs don't have many personal relationships to speak of, so what do we do? type them ILIs?
I'm an ISTP and my partner is an ISFP. My ISFP partner liked your description. She added, "Fi reacts to everything, people, things, events, happenings and occurrences, everything.... and there is a tendency to notice Fi's r'ship with people and often it is described as a people relating function, but it is much more than that."
Tune in tomorrow, I'll be talking about Fi+Se.
Not necessarily a reaction. The reaction is after the information has bumped with Fi the subjective interpretation of the information
If something doesn’t bump Fi then no reaction will appear but sometimes a gleeful internal smile will be made or a nod with the internal head
This is the best description of Fi I’ve seen.
perfect you answered my question,
attitudes, moods omg that's perfect for it (soul hunters walking mood rings) rather than just feelings or morals.
fi -ne acts like a spiritual medium or healer, as ni -fe acts as a psychopomp or harbinger both have strong fi
fi-se is like an artist or tough love friend and Si-fe a yoga guru hipper or nurse joy lol ( just listing the types with the strongest fi)
good video i hope you do the quadras and you probably won't since no one has but the forms of cognition the vortical synergetic, dialectical algorithm, casual determinist and the holographic panoramic no one has seemed to really break that down
anyway, great video thanks for the clarity
Consulting the amygdala, hahaha.
Best description I have ever heard! As an Fi user myself I always felt that Fi is not about ideology, moral rules, etc. It felt false to me, when people put it this way. It is very subjective. This I like - this I don't like.
The static nature of Fi is a really good point, and I've found this can be very confusing for people who don't value Fi: areas where Fi maintains a consistent positive attitude, other areas where Fi maintains a consistently negative attitude.
E.g. I strongly suspect my PhD advisor is an ILE - she's equal parts a civic-minded Eleanor Roosevelt and comedian Tina Fey - and she has this quite unneeded insecurity over whether she's offended me or not, made me uncomfortable or not. I understand it's because she views other people's images of her as being highly malleable and transitory, shifting in the Fe wind - she has a bit of an edgelord streak to her, so she's likely drawn a lot of nasty blowback in the past.
She appreciates that I trust her, that I don't get offended easily, that I'll hear her out instead of going "Oh you said this edgy thing, how inappropriate of you!," that I don't need to get paid to do every little favor - but I can tell it's the one area in our working relationship that has her going "huh..."
On the other hand, there's a major strike at my work, but I've stayed out of picketing because I refuse to work anymore with two of the main people organizing the picketing.
They read this as me being upset that I didn't get to be part of their group - they didn't understand that after the time they'd spent bullying me and the people I cared about in the department, I simply wanted nothing to do with them. I didn't want to be part of these two people's group, I didn't want their friendship, I didn't want to be on their public petitions...all I wanted was to not exist to them at all. That rejection of their social hierarchy hasn't registered with them.
Very good case study. Thank you.
Interesting, I don't experience Fi as static at all. If someone offends me, that very much recalibrates my feelings towards them in a very dynamic way. But I'm only Fi mobilizing, not Fi base - for Fi base, it is very static indeed, especially in combination with Ne PoLR, as once a decision on someone is made, alternative possibilities are not even considered. I have much less (read: no) decisiveness, so for me everything is constantly updated as new information comes in, including my feelings towards people.
@@Retrosenescent If anything, Fi in the Mobilising function should be all the more rigid and static. An all-or-nothing, once broken, ain't gonna be fixed situation. Especially when combined with Ne Ignoring.
@@Retrosenescent Yeah, for me it really depends on what the offense is.
I know people who will change their view of you overnight if you, say, give them critical feedback on a research paper - I find this incredibly sad, since that sort of feedback helps me do my job better. I also don't particularly mind if somebody finds me weird or odd or un-hip or whatever.
On the other hand, I wound up cutting ties with a trusted confidante after I found out they'd been playing a bunch of people against each other with a series of provably false rumors. That felt more weighty, the sort of thing that really gets at the heart of who a person is - the sort of thing where I could feel my trust in that person just simply shatter on the spot.
But that also works both ways: people do change, and I've always had faith (whether merited or not) in my ability to tell when somebody expresses true regret vs when it's just performative.
The way I think of it, for an IEE, Fi isn't totally immovable forever. It's like an anchor. It's what keeps me grounded when I'm out at sea. But if the winds push too hard for too long, if the storm starts turning into a deadly hurricane, I'm not going to stay in that one spot forever.
Fi dom here, since you disclosed you are fi blind I can't say exactly how soon I'd know for certain but even 5 minutes into this video, the first I've watched from you, I can already sense your fi blindness. But great job describing what fi is at its fundamental rather than making the mistake most commit. Fi is indeed not morals. It's more of the personal emotional attachment to the morals (ideas) that can flip on a dime depending on new input.
Helpful, thank you. Lately I’ve been questioning my IEI self typing of a few years and considering EII. I’ve been called out a few times for having Delta values 😂 and have been gathering descriptions of both Fi and Delta NFs.
I like that you differentiated Fi from having values/principles. That’s a much needed clarification.
I do have a strong sense of justice and fairness, though…if I’m Fi that would slightly go against what you said here about Fi vs Ti 🤔 It’s a new concept to me that Fi isn’t as fair as Ti…one can have favorites but still value not showing favoritism, no?
Being just seems like a character quality rather than a cognitive process. Although I get what you mean about Ti having principles that should be applied across the board. Hmm, food for thought.
My favorite function
Prob the best explanation of Fi I've heard. Every time people say it's to do with a system of principles, values I cringe, that's Ti/Fe, the Fi/Te type is instinctively sceptical of systems, set methods, even more so ideologies, dogmas as all those can and do threaten the individual. That's why there are so many INFP, ISFP working freelance, and so few active in politics. Yes Fi is concerned with morals, but more on an individual basis because it hates, distrusts, fears any kind of groupthink or massed emotion. It absolutely can be partial because every one is unique. In fact Ti/Fe types can and often are partial too though they might deny or try to conceal it, dress it up as something else, perhaps Fi/Te is just a little more honest about it, or maybe that's just my Fi bias.
absolutely amazing channel !
building my static introverted feeling towards you right now mr. world socionics society guy
I have been into Jungian Typology for a very long time, but for the first time ever! I'm able to see the functions manifest in people clearly. The socionics descriptions makes things much more clearer!
I haven't heard I.f explained in this way. You are a skilled teacher. This is my 2nd best function and I found myself thinking that is exactly how I am in my relationships.
Glad it was helpful!
I've spent years trying to understand the cognitive functions through the MBTI system but most of the definitions offered seemed to have at least a flaw in them. This is the first time they've been explained in a way that makes sense, without the vague, overlapping language. I've heard you mention a course--is that something you're still working on? I don't use Facebook and while I find your website to be useful, I'd love to see what more you have to offer.
Glad that you are posting more often again!
Very glad to hear it's clicked for you. The pilot of the course is nearly finished, and then I'll be re-recording everything to make it slick and professional. That should be done by early next year. If you'd like to make sure I don't forget, please send an email entitled 'course' to worldsocionics@hotmail.com
well done, explaining your blind spot element👍
yes its not personal values
bc a lot types gave them esp Ti leads but also beta NFs etc
its indeed antisystematic
and immediate, involved and veeeery static, its a felt fact!!!that cannot explain by thinking about it in any way. its just creating these fix set attitudes and you can only acknowledge these verdicts.
yes and its a lot about other peoples attitudes and noticing those.
it looks like moral but moral is mire a chosen? principle than a felt fact.
its not possible to ignore the distance Fi sets.
the Fi static attitude can change. but ist a rare thing
and it one moment, a thing someone says and the Fi changes, that breaking you describe is painful sometimes
thanks
I'm an LII and I've had to consciously work on my Fi. The inability to really judge peoples' character has gotten me into a lot of trouble and confusion.
I've found that Fi users are not the kind to act nice to keep social harmony. They're truer to themselves. Which probably keeps them from becoming socially drained as easily. I can also see how it relates to Te -- intimate relationships take a lot of external logic, communication, and practicality, which isn't externally emotional. You have to know, deep down, that you love someone, to work through an interpersonal conflict.
It might be the alpha quadra in me but my friendships are more mutable. I like deep conversation but more on an intellectual level. My best friendships are ones where we go off and do our own thing, and reconnect to catch up after a while, with more of an emphasis on a light mood. Here for a good time, not a long time, I say. 😂
I liked this series a lot! It gave me a better comprehension about the functions!
glad it helped!
I have a hard time saying someone is a good person or a bad person. I think most everyone has good in them. Very rarely you will have a psychopath who is evil though. Like a Jeffrey Dahmer type. Most people, want to be loved and understood, but they may have had trauma that makes it hard to achieve these things or an inability to be vulnerable.
Literally exactly what ive been saying to people and idk where this stereotype comes from even
You related Fi to attitude formation. Which purpose/s do you see an attitude serving? Think of someone with a particular attitude and ask 'what does that attitude do for him/her?' For example, someone might hold a racist attitude. Which purpose/s does that serve? How does it benefit the racist in the racist's own eyes?
When you say you are not very good at forming Fi judgements, do you mean that you tend not to make them or that you make them, but end up finding that you did not actually make a good judgement there?
Former, although the latter would likely be true if I made them
Fi is also about what's fair. Fi is more the opposite of Fe than the opposite of Ti.
Fi is partiality, as opposed to the impartiality of Ti. It is inherently unfair.
So this description of Fi is interesting. I’ve always thought I was an SEE but I have an artificial mindset that lies above my instinctual interactions, and the way you described Ti to be seems to be more in line. Is it possible for someone with Ti polr at all to even construct that sort of mindset and actively judge and use this mindset to form decisions? Or is it their weakest ability and unusual?
Also, what does status in a professional setting have to do with Fi?
Reading other comments, there are some instinctual values I have developed that never change, and some, like my attitudes on a person or some sort of food can change drastically. Is this a sign of strong or very weak Fi?
My latest video may be of use here, as well as the video coming out tomorrow.
It may be that you think you are, but you actually aren't. That's common with Ti PoLR. The distinctions between different concepts can easily blur.
I'm an ILI and I think I use Ti more than Fi. Do you think this could be true?
Yes, particularly when you are not in a position to use Fi confidently. ILI will grow from Ti to Fi over time.
How come the delta quadra is considered aristocratic while valuing Fi?
To my understanding, Fi is anti-aristocratic because it values each person on an individual level. As he mentioned in the video.
Aristocratic is wrongly defined and only works for Betas. It should simply mean a focus on the locus of change as the backdrop for one's values, not group categorisation vs individual appreciation.
@@WorldSocionics thank you
I'm an LII INTj and I have a question:
My views on people can change within a second. If I see someone behaving in a way that's offensive to me, I tend to feel like I can't trust that person anymore. The reason I can't trust them is not because of their character, but that they will continue to hurt me this way so it's best to avoid them. Even their rude remarks can hurt me but some people may find this overly sensitive, I think. People’s behaviour matters to me a lot. And I don't stay blindly loyal to someone. Is this Fe or Fi? I'm torn between LII and ESI. Or am I just an SFJ?
Another thing I would like to mention is, as a child I would forgive people easily but then I discovered that they'd keep hurting me. I even had a friend who had no mutual respect for anyone. I always thought that she might change but I ended up disrespecting myself by not getting away from her forever. I did not follow a rule back then. Instead I considered her possible problems behind such behaviour but I somehow I always knew that I'm being too forgiving. I like making many friends tho, but I never had any circle of my own. I want people of my own, who will stay away from those I stay away from. But I'd always discover that most of my friends would always get distracted by those I don't like, or are manipulative. I would stay with them despite that bcuz I couldn't get along well with anyone else. Does this look like Fi?
This sounds like a situation where natural and learned behaviours are interacting. I would need to interview you to advise on your type.
At the end of the day, INTJ can use Fi as a means to inching closer to Fe. At the same time, one must factor in Si and the avoidance of Se.
Can I trade it in for something else? I don't want it.
The audio in this video is way too quiet too
in the end where you explain how Fi is partial, there I hear a TiFe interpretation
orefering your friends over others isnt what Fi dies, Fi understands fairness as wekl as Ti does
delta Fi at least would see that a stranger deserves to be treated equally
Idk about Fi in gamma though
but in delta Fi would notice outsiders and underdogs especial and even include them on their family event for example bc the idea of excluding someone who not belongs feels bad and everyone deserves to get support etc
it can become naive in times
but thats delta not gamma Fi
Fairness is not something you can subjectively evaluate. It always appeals to some kind of standard to be upheld with consistency, and by appealing to a standard, it becomes a matter of Thinking, not Feeling.
I’m still lost
What's lost you?
I don't know if I agree with your description about the sentiment function. I understand what you mean, however there is a feeling that you are moving too far away from Jung in describing such functions.
Well, what does Jung mean with Introverted Feeling, and does what he mean make coherent sense in contrast and comparison to the other rational functions?
Is the goal to build upon Jung or to cling to Jung?
@@WorldSocionics first I must say that I do not totally disagree with your model of functions, Sentiment is a function that filters information and judges them in a subjective and personal way, however, your definition seems to me closer to what would be a "pure feeling" than in fact the feeling of the Jungian definition. If rational for Jung means: a reasoning that uses specific criteria to form a conclusion, the sentimental type reasoning would not be in any way insubstantial or antisystemic as you say. To put it more clearly, it is necessary to understand that functions come in pairs and that they can only exist if they are counterbalanced by another perfectly opposite function, and in that, there is a dialectical relationship between thinking and feeling that you seem to ignore, the thinker only it can be moral because it is constantly being influenced by its sentimental shadow and the sentimental type only knows whether something is good or bad because it can understand the logical and mechanical materiality of reality that is provided by its inferior function
@Vitor If by "pure feeling", you mean feeling without any thinking mixed in with it, then that is entirely my intention, and I think it crucial that we deal with things in their purity before working out how to mix them together.
Yes, Fi is complemented by Te and vice versa, and in different types we will see a balancing of both or the deficit of one due to an overwhelming focus on the other. This is necessary for types like INFJ and ESTJ to be meaningfully distinct in how they use Fi vs. Te.
When it comes to Fi, it is Feeling, so it must be personal and subjective. It must be a Rationality of sentiment. Being partial rather than impartial and saying 'no' to something because you don't like it is every bit as rational as appealing to a rule or set of criteria, it's just a product of Feeling rather than Thinking and specifically Fi rather than Ti.
@@WorldSocionics yeah, however, what I mean is that you define feeling as a completely subjective and anti-systemic function, when in fact feeling can be as systematic and objective as thinking. If a feeling type says, "I don't like that," this should not be taken as a sufficient condition for concluding that there was no orderly reasoning in arriving at that judgment.
@Vitor what orderly reasoning do you undertake in order to reasonably and judiciously arrive by your feelings?
Im entj and pass all the day watching violent videogames like resident evil studying biotechnology and learning about the Qabbalah and judaism. I also suspect that Si and Fi are the weakest functions i have