How-To: Control Ursa & BMD Studio Cameras from ATEM Mini Switchers
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 05. 2024
- With the introduction of the Bi-Directional SDI/HDMI 3G Micro Converter, Blackmagic Design has made it possible to use the camera control features on their Ursa Mini/Broadcast and Studio cameras from the ATEM Mini series. Here's how...
Product Info / Purchase links:
►Blackmagic Design Bi-Directional SDI/HDMI 3G Micro Converter - djp.li/bidi3g
These converters do work in the reverse direction as well: you can control a Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 4K/6K from the bigger SDI-based ATEM switchers as well.
Correction: I accidentally got the focus and iris adjustment controls swapped. The focus control is the one across the bottom, and the one on the right is for adjusting the Iris. My apologies.
--------------
Join this channel for behind-the-scenes, early access to videos, and more:
►CZcams: / @djp_video
►Patreon: / djprod
►Sign up for our video production management website:
www.crewaxis.com/pricing.php?...
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
www.amazon.com/shop/dougjohns...
►Equipment Used for YT Videos - djp.li/ytequipment
----------
Follow us online!
►DJP Website - www.djprod.biz/
►Second CZcams Channel - djp.li/youtube2
►Email Mailing List - djp.li/email
►Discord Discussion Server: djp.li/discord
►Social Media Accounts - djp.li/social
►Partial Equipment List - djp.li/gear
►Free Production Tools - djp.li/tools
Loving those new lower thirds Doug!
Great I couldn't figure that out with the second SDI :D Thanks!
Ive been using these since they arrived in AUS. I also use the fiber converters with them, lots of adapters everywhere. I invested heavily in fiber, dont have many long lengths of SDI cable! Very happy BM produced these!
Great video mate (Y)
great to hear from a fellow aussie
@@jezzathenugget not many of us on here it seems. Been watching for many many years!
Man I could’ve used this video 2 weeks ago I actually had to RTFM. thanks though great vid!
This is so helpful. I was bummed we couldn't control the SDI cameras with the mini. We have a handful of these convertors and I can't wait to experiment tomorrow. Thanks!!
This only works with the newer 3G versions of the converters, so if you don't have that version you'll need to replace them.
@@djp_video Thanks Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 3G, right? I bought them within the last few months.
@@NickDrinks Yep. Those are the ones!
Thanks as always for the helpful videos.
My question is only slightly related.
Do you know what the latency difference is between using a Micro Studio camera through this conversion compared to just using the Pocket 4K?
I have a few of the old Micro Studios as we go live to a projector and side screens. Wondering if it’s worth the switch to the BMPCC4K instead for the low light performance.
The slider that you said controls focus actually sets a ceiling for the iris. Focus is controlled with the dial that is across the bottom horizontally.
Yeah, I accidentally swapped it. I've added a correction to the video description. Thanks!
Hey Doug! I believe the focus control for the lens is the wheel directly below the iris control/black point. The coarse slider doesn’t effect the focus. It effects the iris as well however i’m not sure what the difference between the Iris/Black point slider you were using and the coarse slider are, unless it’s just that one effects both at the same time and the other just effects the iris. Thanks for the helpful videos as always!
You're right. I got it wrong. Thanks!
@@martycg15 The lens has to have electronic focus control, and for that feature to be compatible with the BMD camera, for it to work.
Thank you Doug. Always doing God's work.
Nice solution Doug!
Thanks, Paul! 👍
One note for the pocket cinema cameras is that you have to set the atem number in the usb config software.
Do you mean the port number you have the camera plugged into on the ATEM?
Brilliant video thanks! will the older URSA 4K work, the big beast? It has SDI in and out but you cannot choose the ATEM input on the camera. I have just ordered the ATEM Mini Pro to use with the Pocket 4K, just wondered if I can use the URSA as another camera.....I also have the BMPC4K that only has SDI out, I guess thats not useable?
I don't believe the original Ursa has the necessary features for remote control. You can certainly use it, but you won't have the ability to control it from the ATEM.
Your BMPC4K also doesn't have the necessary hardware for remote control.
These cameras have vastly different looks to them. If you're using them for live production you'll likely find that cutting from one camera to the other will result in vastly different images. Your best bet is to use the same camera model whenever possible.
Hey Doug ... quick question, in the video you explain how to connect your SDI camera using an ATEM Mini Extreme HDMI version (hence why you're going over the BiDirectional converters), but what if you have the SDI version of ATEM Mini Extreme... how are using camera control and tally? Meaning, I know you'll be using the "SDI In" port on the camera, but where are you connecting on the ATEM? Any of the SDI Out ports? And in this situation, is this why you need to set the camera id within the camera's settings? thanks in advance!
Yes, any of the SDI outputs would work. You can even use a distribution amplifier like the SDI Distribution Mini Converter from Blackmagic if you don't want to use up all of your outputs. And that is why the ID needs to be set; all ATEM outputs contain camera control and tally data for all cameras, so the cameras have to be setup to know which ID to listen for.
@@djp_video ... Awesome, thanks for the quick reply and for pointing out the SDI Distribution Mini Converter!! All great stuff!! Thanks again :)
Hi Doug, can you use a Rec709 lut on the camera and also use the camera control unit or software to fine tune the cameras in a production? Thanks for your reply!
Yes. Blackmagic doesn't really refer to it as 709, but that's essentially what the Video mode is. And you can tweak the color and exposure just fine.
Hi Doug, I was just watching your tutorial and I one thing I wasn't clear on. Could you take the return SDI to the camera and put a DA on it and send it to more than one camera and get control and tally data or is it a 1:1 type thing?
With HDMI switchers it's a 1:1 relationship. Splitting that signal would cause all cameras to respond to the control commands. That's only true of the HDMI-based switchers like the ATEM Minis; the others can be split with a DA.
Doug is there a blackmagic converter that I can run an SDI in and out from the camera and then instead of hdmi out of to the ATEM, another SDI out to the ATEM for control of my URSA's?
Nice stuff. Would love to see coverage of the Sony Z150’s and Z90’s remote control capability with that Sony app. I asked you about hit on a live stream once; you’d said it was clunky because the camera turns into a wireless AP. Surely it could join an already stood up AP and just function as part of a wireless LAN? Put some iPad minis on the same LAN and then in theory you’d have remote iris and zoom control of the Sony cameras on the cheap. Only you could cover all of the caveats in making such a setup fly.
I'll add it to my list.
But the cameras can't join another network for the remote control mode. You have to use their own built-in Access Point.
I just spent some time playing with the remote control capability of the Z150/Z90. To sum up? It's not very useful.
1. It forces you directly into Access Point mode in the camera. You don't have the option of joining another existing network or using a wired connection. It just isn't even an option. You have to connect the WiFi of your phone to the camera.
2. It disconnects frequently, so you have to switch back and forth between the app and the phone's WiFi settings often. And the WiFi range is pretty poor.
3. The LCD screen on the camera only displays a message that it's being remotely controlled while in this mode. You can't see the video that the camera is capturing.
4. The "live" video inside of Sony's Content Browser Mobile app has a significant delay on it, and likes to just stop updating randomly.
5. You only get control over the Iris, Zoom, and Record Start/Stop. That's it. No other controls. No focus adjustments, no shutter, gain, or white balance control.
6. While in this mode, you can't do anything else on the camera itself besides zoom and start/stop recording. You can't access the menu, or adjust exposure, or adjust focus. Most everything is disabled.
Bottom line? It's unreliable and very light on capabilities.
@@djp_video you realise this is just bait for me to find a way of bridging their wireless LANs together. You seem like you’re into networking too with all the funky stuff you have to do with those SONY PTZ cameras that have a fixed IP address where I guess you do some kind of source network address translation to make it usable. The Z150/Z90 wireless capabilities sounds like it could be a fun project if not for the light weight capabilities of Content Browser Mobile.
If someone is going to go to all of that trouble, would it make more sense to come up with an Arduino or Raspberry Pi-based system that talks directly to the camera through the LANC port? That would give a lot more flexibility and be universal.
It's something I've been wanting to do but just haven't found the time.
Hey Doug!
First of all, wanted to thank you for such an informative video!
Had a doubt regarding the camera control on a studio camera 4k plus, which does not have SDI on the camera itself. Would using bi-directional converters at both ends work?
If you get the 3G or 12G Micro Converter versions, yes. The original pre-3G versions will not.
@@djp_video thank you!
Great video Doug, does this also allow you to trigger recording on the Ursa ?
It should, though I didn't explicitly test that.
Hey Doug, love your videos! I refer to them constantly for training and support! Question maybe you might be able to answer:
I am attempting to get my URSA Mini Pro 4.6K with the viewfinder tally light to work when hooked up through the Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 3G adapter to my ATEM Mini Extreme ISO and although I can control everything (GAIN, GAMMA, LIFT, FOCUS, etc) on the camera, for some reason the Tally light wont turn on when switched to the camera. Everything else works. I know the Tally light works and functions as expected when I hook it up to a Television Studio HD. It's the strangest thing. Have you had any experience with Tally on the ATEM Mini? Curious to know your thoughts.
Thanks again for your videos! You rock!
Set the Camera ID values in the menus of the camera and in the setup application of the bi-directional converter to match the input channel number on the ATEM.
@@djp_video Hey! Thanks for replying, Doug! I love all of your videos!
There is one thing that I had to do additionally that I just discovered last night. It only started working once I ran an additional HDMI cable of the program feed back from my ATEM into the HDMI IN on the BiDirectional Converter (both HDMI IN and HDMI OUT populated). Once I did this, then Tally on the View Finder (Blackmagic add on) started working. As an added bonus, I can then use the PGM button on the URSA to be able to display whatever is the Program feed on the ATEM at the time (so I can monitor what is live on air). As soon as I populated all I/O on the BiDirectional Converter it worked!
Oh, just as a side note that might be an important detail, I'm running the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K. Not sure if that matters to others if someone else runs into this issue.
Thanks for the video, I just tried the setup with my BM mini extreme iso to original BM Studio camera (w/ 10" monitor with latest firmware). The setup seemed to work, however, the video signal blanks out and on every two seconds continuously. The control seems to make the changes but the video keeps blanking on and off. Can you help?
How long is your HDMI cable? Have you tried it with a different cable?
I totally missed that the 2-way adopter enabled camera control, thanks for this! How is your Design Micro Studio Camera 4K with the adaptor? I'm mostly shooting talking head from fixed mount cameras in my office that are recorded on the Atem Mini Extreme ISO and/or Hyperdecks. So the Micro seems appealing. Does "bad" autofocus mean slow, or does it mean it often doesn't get a sharp focus even on something easy (medium closeup talking head)?
The Micro Studio Camera 4K works as designed, but it isn't a great camera. Take a look at the videos on the channel from a year ago (MSC4K) vs. now (Sony Z150). The difference is pretty staggering.
Auto-focus is really slow. It works most of the time, but it can miss focus occasionally. It's very simplistic in the way it works.
@@djp_video lol thanks Doug. I don't need new cameras, and the Micro would probably be a step back in image quality (running Nikon Z6 now with a bigger sensor), but all those unused buttons on the Atem Mini are killing me :-) A very dumb reason to go camera shopping.
@@djp_video I am looking into getting two studio cameras and two pocket Cinema 4K all controlled from a ATME switcher the main reason I was looking at the studio camera is It has SDI and thay will need them to be about 100 ft away from the switcher. would it be possible to use two bidirectional converters to go from HDMI to SDI and then back to HDMI and use a pocket Cinema instead of the studio and still have camera control?
@@CYBERSTORM101X I would think it would work, but I haven't tested it, nor do I have all of the required gear to do so.
@@djp_video thanks for the reply. if all goes well and our package gets approved I will test this and if I remember reply and confirm if it works. Thanks again for all the informative videos.
hey @Doug, have you done a MIDI /USB controller for these controls? Especially the colour correction for the cameras?
I've never looked into it. Maybe Central Control has something that will help?
Hi Doug! Do you find that if your camera is connected to the software, any setting changes on the camera revert back to the software values after ~1-2 seconds?
Yes. That is normal and how it is designed to work.
Hey Doug, does this also working the newer studio pro versions? I am having some issues with it. For some reason it is not allowing me to run SDI straight from the unit to the converter. I have to run HDMI to SDI, then back to HDMI then into the ATEM mini extreme.
I would assume so, but I don’t have access to one to test it
Thank you 4 the video 👍 what you think it’s also possible with the first URSA? The old 7kg beast with the tablet siced screen?
Kind regars
I really have no idea.
@@djp_video ok i will check it tomorow 👍
@@djp_video i test it and it dont work :-(
Would it work with a wireless video transmitted and receiver like the hollyland connected to the micro converter?? I assume it should work the same way right?
No. These signals don't pass through wireless systems.
Thx Doug, Grt Video! Thx. Do you think it will work with the Ursa G2? (G2 has 3G sdi in, and 12G sdi out)
Yes. It works great with my Gen 1 Ursa Mini just fine. You'll still have to set the SDI output to 1080p though.
@@djp_video Awesome, this is so cool they added to the Ursa. Adds to the already high value for money of these cameras as it is and BMagic's eco system in general. Amazing really.
How would you go about to connect a wireless video trans/receiver on a BM Studio camera 4k pro to an Atem Television Studio pro 4k but maintaining camera control/tally & com?
And is it so that the Atem mini Iso and X have supersource while the Atem Television Studio pro 4k which suppose to be a broadcast device don't?
I don't think you can. The wireless systems that are available will ignore the camera control data, and are limited to the main 2 channels of audio.
@@djp_video I was planning to buy the sdi/hdmi bi directional converter. sdi in/out from the. camera to the converter and hdmi out to the Wireless Trans and Wireless Rec out to converter hdmi In and SDI In/out to Atem. But I didn't wanna buy the devices because I had my doubts. Thanks. I have learn a lot from your videos.
I got me new BMD Studio 4K Pro camera yesterday. I'm having a hard time getting camera control and tally to work from my ATEM mini extreme ISO through my 40x40 video hub. I'm going SDI from the camera to the video hub, from the video hub to a SDI-HDMI into the ATEM Mini Extreme. I'm sending the program feed from the ATEM to an HDMI-SDI into the videohub, then SDI out to the SDI in on the camera. Everything works except tally and camera control. What I'm I missing?
It only works with the 3G version of the Bi-directional Micro Converter. The other converters don't pass the required signals.
Hi there I ordered sdi to hdmi converter to use the setup you just explained. Was I supposed to get the bidirectional instead or would the one I got work? I haven't received the item yet so I can cancel and change.
Camera is ursa mini 4.6k and atem mini for switching
It has to be the bi-directional 3G version if you want to control the camera.
@@djp_video thank you very much
hi, which profile do you use? For record i use film but for streaming?
Unless you have something in your signal chain to later convert the film gamut to video, you'll want to use the video profile on the camera.
Does this work on all ATEM inputs? I’ve had issues getting it working with inputs 2-4 on an ATEM mini at 1080p50 because the output from the micro converter at 1080p50 won’t work with those inputs. It seems to be just the converter that is the issue because any other 1080p50 source works with those inputs.
It should work on all inputs.
Hi Doug! Do you know if you can use camera control if the cameras are remote and linked through the Streaming Bridge? The Blackmagic Design launch suggested it could be done as it was through HDMI & SDI but I have not found a way to do this.
It is/will be with the newest Ursa Broadcast G2 cameras. I/we don't know about other models.
@@djp_video Thank you - I am using 2x BMPC 4K so I will need to do some more testing. I have a new Atem mini extreme ISO arriving next week.
The feature currently requires that the camera itself have the ability to stream using RTMP. Only the Broadcast G2 does that.
@@djp_video Thank you Doug, that saved me some frustration in testing.
Do you know if the atem mini pro works with a URSA 4.6k G2 and the 3g bidirectional? Can the mini panel be added?
You can control the Ursa cameras from an ATEM Mini if you connect the Bidirectional Micro Converter 3G between them, as demonstrated in this video.
Hey quick question , to changes the color of a camara need to be blackmagic or works with other camaras??
Blackmagic cameras only
Hi ! THX for all your vidéos...
I have Blackmagic 6K and when i connect with HDMI in ATEM, Image look less than 1080 px.
I have Black Stipes up and down ;-(
Do you know why ???
THX
I don't know why this would be. I haven't seen this behavior.
What is your HDMI video source?
@@djp_video THX,
My source is the Blackmagic 6K.
@@djp_video Ok I just find :-)
In my ATEM 6K menu I find that the format image was in 5.7K 17:9 and not in 6K
so say you were doing a long sdi run, you would need two of these on each end?
Yes. Since SDI cables can only carry signals in one direction, you need two -- one for video from the camera, and the second to carry the control signals and tally data back to the camera. That second one actually carries a video signal that happens to carry the camera control and tally data as well.
Is there any way to get camera control on a BMPCC 6k that’s ran over a distance with SDI? I have the BiDi converters on each end too. Also I have 6k set up as a wireless HH but I still don’t have any control over it. Thanks.
If you have the 3G or 12G versions of the bi-directional Micro Converters it should work. The older, non-3G/12G converter doesn't translate those camera control signals to/from SDI/HDMI.
Camera control isn't going to work over wireless.
@@djp_video ok I have the 3g converters. So I still need to run 2 SDIs? I tested it with one today and I got signal but no control.
Yes. You'll need cables running each direction for each camera -- one to send video from camera to switcher, the other to send camera control data back to the cameras.
Can I connect any 4 cameras to ATEM Camera Control Panel, for example Panasonic AW-UI 40?
You can connect them, but not control them. Only Blackmagic cameras have the remote color and exposure controls from ATEMs. And only PTZs that use Visca over RS-422 can be controlled by ATEMs with Remote connection jacks.
Do you know if this converter also makes it possible to control the BMPCC4K from the bigger SDI based ATEM switchers?
It does. It works in both directions.
@@djp_video That’s awesome! 😃 And i was just about to pick up a bunch of converters anyway!
Hey Doug, I have an URSA Broadcast G2. Set up almost the same way I see signal to the switcher, but I don’t have control. Do I need to go into channel one or can it go into all the channels?
It can go into any of the channels. You may have a camera ID mismatch, or are using a version of a converter which doesn't create the required SDI ancillary data (it has to be one of the 3G or 12G versions of the Micro Converters -- the older versions don't have that feature.)
When connecting an SDI camera to an HDMI switcher, you can go one of two routes to get camera control and tally working -- explicitly set the camera ID for each camera and micro converter, or just set them all to 1.
SDI cameras and switchers use data in the SDI signal to know which camera is being controlled. All cameras get the exact same data from the switcher, so it's that camera ID value within the signal that lets cameras know which commands they need to respond to. But HDMI switchers and cameras don't have any camera ID data -- the assumption is that the camera will be connected directly to the proper input, so no ID is needed (or even supported).
What this means in practice is that when you connect an SDI camera to an HDMI switcher input that the camera ID data has to be added by the Micro Converter (and it has to match the ID of the connected camera). This is done inside of the converter's setup software. And the camera's ID is set in its setup menus. In this one particular situation, the actual ID number doesn't matter -- it just has to be the same between camera and connected converter. Since the HDMI signal doesn't include any camera IDs, the switcher doesn't know what the actual camera ID is.
Hey Doug, thanks for such a thorough reply. We can see signal to the switcher by way of the converter, which is a 3G I set the converter to 1 and the camera ID to 1. Still no luck myself the DP and the Director have been scratching our head for a day and a half now. Running through the menus on the camera and resetting the converter box several times to make sure that it’s correct I must be missing something simple. But I just don’t see it. Very frustrating because I’m on a multi camera shoot and I have rented my camera out for this production. I just have to say again thank you so much for replying so quickly. 4:38
I failed to mention that the converter has to be the Bi-directional model. The SDI-to-HDMI version won't work. And you have to have two cables going between camera and converter -- input to output in both directions.
Yes it is a bi-directional
Is the firmware on all of your devices up to date?
Do you know does tally work on camera converter over studio converter?
It does. You just need to set the camera number on the Camera Converter.
Does this work going from a pocket cinema to a atem TV studio HD too
I should have mentioned that it works in the other direction too.
@@djp_video awesome thanks.
Hi I have 2 Blackmagic cameras 4K and 6K also ATEM Prodaction Studio 4K Switcher. I connected all, the software as well, I can see my cameras on my multyvew, but I got a issue. When I go to Camera section on software and trying to control cameras it looks like noting is changing when I change bottoms. Can you tell me what can be issue, also my 4K Blackmagic camera is turning off automatic after few second, can you tell me how to fix it inside camera settings ? Thank you, good video.
Before doing anything else, make sure you’ve updated the firmware on the cameras to the latest versions. Then make sure you set the camera ID in the settings to match the input number on your switcher (camera on HDMI 1 is set to ID 1, etc.).
@@djp_video is there any video that shows how to do?
@@djp_video I did update my bought cameras firmware still not working. If you can send any video or link that shows how to much camera ID with inputs, that would be great. Thank you
I don’t have either of those cameras to demonstrate with. But the process will be almost identical to what you see in this video.
Make sure your camera IDs are set to match your switcher input numbers.
What about getting program return into the Ursa from the ATEM Mini Extreme ISO.
You won't be able to do that from the Mini series. You'd have to step up to a higher end model of switcher.
I pushed the HDMI out to a Converter and an SDI DA but of course you lose Tally and any remote functionality in doing so but you do get return.
is this possible with the Television Studio HD or just with the mini series?
The Television Studio HD can do this without the Micro Converter; you just run SDI cables directly.
Hi, How would I use this with a Blackmagic 40x40 videohub?
As long as you have connections for both the SDI input and output, it doesn't matter if that signal passes through a Videohub.
Hey doug
Can you please tell me how to connect return cable from ursa mini 4.6k to television studio hd
Connect an SDI cable from one of the Program outputs on your ATEM to the SDI Input on your camera
Thank you,
Please one more thing to know, has ursa mini 4.6k the same control with Blackmagic design atem 1/me constellation. I mean is it compatible?
Yes. It all works the same across all models.
Normal people don't understand why BMD has mini for such chunky devices! Until they see conventional broadcast equipments!
Help, any time I change something on the actual camera (for example white balance) it goes back to the value I have set on the Atem. Is there a way to override those settings from the camera?
No. If you're remotely controlling the camera the local controls are always overridden.
@@djp_video thank you Doug. Is there a way to disable the remote controls without unplugging the sdi? And use the sdi for communication (talkback) only?
If you change the camera ID number it will stop responding to control commands
@@djp_video of course! Thanks a lot.
How do you utilize these with a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema and an Atem Pro with camera controls
The Pocket Cinema Camera 4K and 6K don't need anything special; just make sure you have the latest firmware on both the switcher and cameras, then connect the two with an HDMI cable. No other hardware is required.
The original Pocket Cinema Camera is not supported.
@@djp_video Thanks what about if I need use a hdmi/Sri converter to have a long cable length?
@@djp_video Thanks. What about if I use a hdmi/Sri converter at both ends as I need a long cable length
You’d need two of the bi-directional 3G micro converters
@@djp_video sorry for all the questions, how would you connect them as there is only 1 hdmi on the pocket camera and 1 on the atem
Thanks as always for the helpful videos.
My question is only slightly related.
Do you know what the latency difference is between using a Micro Studio camera through this conversion compared to just using the Pocket 4K?
I have a few of the old Micro Studios as we go live to a projector and side screens. Wondering if it’s worth the switch to the BMPCC4K instead for the low light performance.
The converter itself doesn't add any noticeable amount of latency -- only a millisecond or so.
As for latency numbers for those two camera models, I don't have that information.