The Problem With Mario Bosses
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- čas přidán 20. 11. 2020
- In this week's episode we explore boss fights for like the third or fourth time. Bosses have alwyas been one of my favorite parts of games and Mario is one of my favorite series but Mario boss fights are some of the least enjoyable parts of those games. Why is that and what can Nintendo do to make these bosses better? Are there any good Mario bosses? All your questions and more will probably be answered idk I didn't watch the video yet.
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OST Used:
Sirena Beach - Super Mario Sunshine
Big Bad Bugaboom - Super Mario Galaxy
Vs. Boss - Super Mario Sunshine
A Spooky Sprint - Super Mario Galaxy
Caves - Super Mario Odyssey
Good Egg Galaxy - Super Mario Galaxy
Bouldergeist - Super Mario Galaxy
File Select - Super Mario Galaxy
Tosterena Town - Super Mario Odyssey
Video Credits:
Mario Galaxy Footage
• Super Mario Galaxy: Bo... - Boss Fight Database
• GHOSTLY GALAXY! - Part... - Echo the Lombat
• 43. [60 FPS] Boulderge... - WhiteKhakis
• 1. [60 FPS] Title & Pr... - WhiteKhakis
• Super Mario Galaxy - A... - Kokiri Gaming
Mario Galaxy 2 Footage:
• Super Mario Galaxy 2 -... - packattack04082
Super Mario World Footage
• Super Mario World - Al... - Nintendo Unity
• Big Boo (Donut Secret ... - Mega Guia dos Games
Super Mario Sunshine Footage
• King Boo Boss: King Bo... - Xeno Archive
• Super Mario Sunshine H... - Typhlosion4President
• Super Mario Sunshine S... - Release-Fire
• Sirena Beach Episode 4... - Unpunk
• FIRST BOSS - Super Mar... - Roamer
Super Mario Bros. 3 Footage
• Super Mario Bros. 3 - ... - Scykoh Plays
• Super Mario Bros. 3 - ... - Scykoh Plays
New Super Mario Bros. Series Footage (DS Wii and U)
• Sparkling Waters - Lar... - Bob Hall
• Video - Kokiri Gaming
• New Super Mario Bros. ... - Zebra Gamer
• New Super Mario Bros U... - Typhlosion4President
Super Mario 3D World and Land Footage
• Super Mario 3D World -... - Typhlosion4President
• Super Mario 3D World W... - 1CoinPlay1Games
• Super Mario 3D Land - ... - packattack04082
Super Mario 64 Footage:
• Super Mario 64 Playthr... - PlayingWithMahWii
• Super Mario 64 - All B... - YTSunny
Super Mario Odyssey Footage
• Super Mario Odyssey: C... - Boss Fight Database
Super Mario Bros. Footage
• NES Longplay [005] Sup... - World of Longplays
Misc. Game Footage (Rayman Legends, Super Meat Boy, Sonic Mania, Banjo-Kazooie Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze)
• Rayman Legends Definit... - packattack04082
• Sonic Mania Boss 5 - H... - Boss Battle Channel
• Super Meat Boy ~ All B... - That Fella Johnny
• Super Meat Boy - 106% ... - pdxbla
• Donkey Kong Country Tr... - Typhlosion4President
• Banjo Kazooie - Treasu... - djxfactor511 - Hry
![The WORST Boss Battle In Every Mario Game EVER! [52 Games!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0OzUbIQe56c/mqdefault.jpg)
I enjoy Boom Boom fights because I can catch up on my sleep fighting him :)
you mean catch up on like 10 seconds of sleep lmao
@@BabyMatiny sleep is sleep
baby go Boom Boom
Heheheh
@@BabyMatiny i mean, that's my average sleep period
"He doesn't like spicy things because he's white" is the best part of the video
Fludd was truly onto something
Made me chuckle
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming definitely
@@Just_a_rathalos151 As a white guy, I found that joke hilarious.
I burst out laughing
I thought for sure you were going to mention megahammer and the boomsday machine from galaxy 2. The boomsday machine used the cloud flower really well, and I love how the machine had actual phases, something sorely missing in most Mario bosses.
those are also great bosses! I remember being super stuck on megahammer as a kid
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming I think lots of Mario galaxie’s bosses are epic, especially from the second game! Diggaleg has such a unique 2d type of gameplay getting you to be a prop at the spin drill, Boomsday machine lets you get used to the cloud flower for quick moments at a time, Rockadillo let’s you have fun with using the rock mushroom with already a pretty intense fight, and even the frosty boss that starts out as a planet has some depth to it by hitting the red nose at the right time, I could go on and on how the Mario Galaxy bosses from the second game are AWESOME! I love the idea that a lot of the bosses let’s you get used to using a power up and getting used to it! The word builds you up with those power ups letting you prepare for the inevitable boss at the end using ALL your new skills to Win! Gaming GENIUS!!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Mario games is usually known for level design and platforming first and foremost. With Mario Galaxy you have motion controls, which means you can't go as fast as Sunshine. So you need good Boss battles to balance it out. In Odyssey there are motion controls, but it's still faster than Galaxy.
Megahammer is a very meh fight to me. It uses the level mechanics well, but has more than 60% of the boss as waiting, and the parts that aren't are either easy, or annoying. It also take 8 hits, which is crazy for a boss with so much waiting
@@thatgamernoob5186 I agree. The boomsday machine is definitely better because of less waiting. It’s been a while since I wrote this comment, but I’m pretty sure I was just surprised that they weren’t mentioned in the video
You know Bouldergeist is a good boss when at first you thought it was hard as hell, but once you figure out the pattern, it becomes a fun time.
That’s a great point and indicates great design
Kirby bosses are the same too, Forgotten land was so fun
I don't know, I consider bouldergeist to be way too easy to make an impact. Apparently a lot of people have trouble with him, but I have no idea why.
@@Nobodynotable1 No, I'm just... a little baffled. If you run around in a circle you will almost never get hit, so I can't really figure out why everyone else struggles. I guess they just don't think to try that? Maybe?
@@braydengraves4655 What? People consider Bouldergeisy hard? I have never seen anyone say such thing. Mario Galaxy is a very easy game
I’m glad the bouldergeist is getting some love
As a kid, that boss fight was intense
Yeah as a kid I was super freaked out by him
We all thought the same way bud
This fight is so hard in Galaxy 2 when you have to do it with only one HP. Took me forever to get it when I completed the game.
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming super mario galaxy was one of my first mario games i remember atleast and i remember being so scared of Bouldergeist
Bouldergeist was way easier than I remembered him - even the Prankster Comet challenge - when I came back to this game in 3D All-Stars. I think because this time around I just intuitively got the hang of the harder strat and finished him faster.
The rabbit bosses from Odyssey are pretty good. They hold to all the elements that can make them boring or confusing, but there are like 4-5 different opportunities to hit them that aren't obvious.
It makes a relatively easy boss more fun by hitting them in their more threatening cycles and attacks.
I’d say the rabbits get better the longer the game goes on, their early renditions are a little too easy but I agree they have around 5 different ways to speed up their fights if you know what to look for
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming The fact that the first Topper fight was only TWO hits made me go "...what?! Why is it even less than 3? That's TOO easy."
Also, most bosses in odyssey build on top of the gimmicks introduced in the levels through use of the captures (mecha wiggler using sherms, broodal mech using pokios, etc)
They aren’t fun tbh, the only one that was good was when they all form into that giant robot and that made it more creative
Miniature Flowerkind it’s so satisfying to complete mecha-broodal birdless
I feel like Gooper Blooper deserves an honorable mention here. You aren't even allowed to start the fight until a wordless explanation of the main fight mechanic: yanking on his tentacles (or face). There's practically no waiting involved, the boss is constantly keeping you on its toes with its attacks, and what's more? As with Bouldergeist, there are even certain strategies to make the boss even easier without them turning into a complete pushover, such as ground-pounding all the tentacles beforehand and just going straight for the face without the need for removing them whatsoever.
Goopier Blooper is indeed a fantastic boss the only thing weighing him down for me being the fact you have to fight him so many times
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Gooper Blooper is basically a proto Galaxy boss come to think of it.
I don't wanna pull the arms off of goober blooper so I pull the face 😆
Where would Gooper Blooper fit in the Mario Galaxy series?
@@iantaakalla8180 If they were able to make a galaxy with a giant shark skeleton as a boss I don't see why they can't do the same for Gooper.
The koopalings could be better if they utilized their koopa cars. So instead of an arena, they can be chased through a stylized level similar to the world they occupy, and use the environment against the player
That would be great!
In Yoshi's Safari, the Koopalings were each given their own crazy vehicles for their boss fights. I think that's as far as Nintendo went to making them distinct from each other.
I really think changing the environment could work. Have the arena be larger with more obstacles and traps. And whenever the player hits them they’ll quickly move to the next spot in their shells.
Yeah, I also think odyssey gets it right too. Most of the bosses are continuations of previous mechanics, and some have methods of being beaten relatively faster than normal.
Odyssey gets it pretty close but I will say some of the bosses are a little tooo easy
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming but the rematches tho
I thought of the mecha broodal because while it normally is a slow and difficult fight on your first playthrough trying to deflect the bombs with the bird like you had previously, sometimes you can try staying on the mecha and try getting a few more hits per cycle, and if you reach such a high level, you can eventually beat it without a bird... though I doubt it's intentional and it's extremely difficult
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming true but thankfully the ideas are still present at the core
Some are easy, but on moon dark side they're good.
My biggest frustration has to be Mario 2D platformers _always_ recreate the Bowser fight from Super Mario Bros, and always the 1-4 one, at that. I think if they're going to go that route, they should at least go for one of the more challenging iterations of it, like have firebars on the bridge, have walls you have to run under and jump over with firebars going the opposite direction. It'll still be easy and basic but at least it'll spice up what has become a mere formality in Mario games. It's like Nintendo forgot that not all "Bowser on the bridge" fights were the 1-4 battle.
Yeah I think the over reliance on Bowser nostalgia hurts NSMB specifically. Like it’s cool but we’ve played this boss so many times
like New Super Mario Bros Wii (i think, might've been Wii U/Deluxe, idk), where Bowser chases you and it's basically platforming except you also have Bowser fireballs as non-stationary obstacles
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Yes, 100%. And if they must do the Bowser nostalgia thing, they could instead stop recreating 1-4 but instead do one with a little more teeth to it, like 4-4 with the firebar on the bridge and podoboos jumping from the lava.
Kaizo Mario World had an extremely difficult Bowser bridge fight
Kaizo Mario World 2 had a ridiculous fight with Reznor
I could see how developers could tone down the difficulty a tad from the Kaizo versions but still make something interesting
@@DanielSong39 Yes, exactly! I'm thinking they could recreate the 7-4 Bowser fight from the Lost Levels, lava bubbles (podoboos) jumping out of the lava on the bridge, walls to climb over and duck under, and a firebar on the bridge right where Bowser is rotating counterclockwise just to make it extra rough, maybe even add a firebar onto a wall you have to run under.
"Platformer bosses have never been the highlight"
Mega Man: am I a joke to you?
Megaman bosses do be good as long as their weakness doesn’t kill them like in 2 hits
Mega Man is my favourite retro franchise and even I can admit the quality is all over the place. The first NES games have mostly bad bosses.
Most of the bosses in Mega Man 9-11 are good though.
honestly I think you couldve thrown galaxy 2 a bone. Peewee Piranha, Giga Lakitu, Gubblegut, Sorbetti, Megahammer, Glamdozer, Squizzard and Boomsday Machine have all player-managed pace to some degree. Prince Kaliente and Whomp King have cycles so quick youre basically not waiting for anything. An they all have mechanics taught during the level or beforehand too.
edit: I see you gave some compliments to these in the comments, so that's cool :)
Galaxy 2 has some great bosses too like the ones you mentioned. I'd say Megahammer is my favorite out of all them I remember fighting him as a kid and having such a good time!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming yeah its really fun!
bro included pee wee piranha, giga lakitu, sorbetti and squizzard in a list of bosses with good level design in smg2 :skull:
they don't really have much pacing behind them, u normally figure out the mechanic mid-fight.
@@Albert_Pecanio yeah thats not what pacing is
@@undergalaxy775 oh i know what pacing means. giga lakitu is the only example of the mechanic being introduced beforehand, the rest you all do on the fly (spin mechanic carrying). and the main issue with giga lakitu is how long you have to wait to throw stuff at him.
even still, if the boss has poor design (peewee piranha), then pacing doesn't matter too much anyways.
I'd say Mega Man and Metroid, being more combat focused have fun bosses most of the time.
Megaman has some fantastic fights especially the ones where the boss weakness doesn’t one shot them
The bossfights are a big reason why I got into mega man.
(most) Bosses in Mega Man have a learnable pattern, but they still have some level of difficulty because:
1. Even if you learn the pattern it's still difficult to dodge the attacks
2. There's some randomness in the pattern to change things up, so the bosses aren't as predictable as Boom Boom.
Some Mega Man bosses even react to your inputs, which is a good idea to me, because it feels like the bosses can think and react to your attacks, just like you, the player.
same bides by Hollow Knight (or i just have HK brainrot), because some of the bosses follow the unique mechanics of the area prior like the Soul Master (teleporting fireball shooting enemies in Soul Sanctum) and Troupe Master Grimm/Nightmare King Grimm (Grimmkin attacks are usually similar to their attacks + you have the handicap of 2 charm slots for Grimmchild) and can be defeated through fun mechanics and gimmicks (like Dung Defender who will suffer immensely if you use Desolate Dive on him, or most of the bosses by simply the philosophy of Git Gud)
Megaman has almost awesome boss fights, making the bosses feel like they have soul and that they're trying to destroy you, tho', sadly not every boss fight is like that, but games like megaman 4-11, Megaman X1 and X2 and Megaman Zero games have some really good boss fights.
@@byzantine5761 Hollow Knight bosses almost entirely do away with one of the main problems presented in the video: waiting. There is no dodging phase, “weak point exposed!” phase and recovery phase. Battles are dynamic and relentless. The boss does not wait for you and you do not wait for the boss. Bosses are vulnerable at all times and you can land as many hits as you want, so long as you can get close enough to do so without getting fucked. How long it takes to defeat a boss depends entirely on how good you are.
There are only a handful of exceptions. Most notably Uumuu. Which is why no one likes Uumuu.
Hollow Knight combat is amazing and has honestly destroyed my standards for boss fights in platformers. I just can’t deal with the Mario boss formula anymore.
_"Platformer bosses have never really been the highlights of their game"_
That's...a bold opening to a video, my friend.
Wait omg you’re the guy who made the Metroid Fusion video right?? I’m a huge fan of that video it’s super cool that you watched my video
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Thanks a lot! Yeah great content, keep it up!
Its 100% facts though. 2D platformers can have good bosses that can be a cool diversion but they are rarely anything special upon inspection or analysis (and many are bad).
I won't talk about 3D platformers due to not playing many but I see the bar is low there as well.
Metroidvanias and action platformers tend to have significantly superior bosses on average, even if a lot of them are still weak. Metroid has probably some of the very best bosses out of any Nintendo franchise though.
@@panthekirb7561 Castlevania had some very difficult boss fights
The music in super mario galaxy 1's final fight is also crazy good, idk why they don't use such epic music for their final bosses anymore.
I love the huge orchestra sound they used for Galaxy, it really captures the essence of space
Metroid Dread has some of the best boss fights I've ever played. They force you to use the skills and abilities you've learned up to that point, with the most recent one you've obtained being the main gimmick for that boss. Experiment Z-57 is such a perfect boss.
Yessss I love Metroid Dread bosses to death in particular Raven Beak who was one of the most exhilarating bosses I’ve ever fought against
I will say, if I have to complain about Bouldergeist, it's that you said the level revolved around Bomboos, but the thing is you are right, but also not really... You see, you use the Bomboos once to find a launch star, and there are some you can use to find a 1up, but you don't ever use Bomboos anywhere else, and instead it focuses more on sling pods. In fact, my biggest issue with Super Mario Galaxy 1, is that it doesn't use enough of some of its gimmick. And the main reason why I prefer Super Mario Galaxy 2 over 1, is that Galaxy 2 generally uses its unique gimmicks in more unique ways. I love to compare Bouldergeist from Super Mario Galaxy 1 to Megahammer from Super Mario Galaxy 2 to make people see what I mean. Both have hard prankster comets, both uses the gimmick of their level to beat them, except Bouldergeist's level makes you use the bomboos for a few seconds, while the entire level for Megahammer makes you use Yoshi's ability to spit Bullet Bills back at enemies and other stuff to solve puzzles.
I will have to say there are not that many good bosses in Galaxy 1. But Tarantox is the worst by regressing to typical Mario boss patterns around a circle
Don't worry I didn't die I just couldn't come up with an idea for a while. Like I mentioned in the video, I got a new microphone so I think I sound much better now although I'll porbably have to adjust some of the settings in the future. We're getting surprisingly close to 200 and I'm really excited. Don't forget to Like, Comment and Subscribe and I'll see you in the next video.
You should do an explanation on why some spin-offs work while others don’t (example: Metal gear rising vs. Metal gear survive
@@reillymcwritingThat's a pretty good idea, I'll tkae into consideration!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming OH MY GOD, MY MAN JUST REPLIED?!
Naval Pirahna from World 3-8 of Yoshi's Island fits into the category of 'bosses that fit into the level gimmick' well too. The whole stage is encouraging you to learn that you can skim Yoshi's eggs across water if you ricochet them off a wall.
Then, for the boss, that's what you have to do. If you haven't learned it by that point, it's not impossible to beat, it's just considerably harder.
Also you can one-shot the boss if you hit it before the cutscene too :)
Yoshi's Island in general has a ton of great platforming design that I'd love to delve into one day!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming I'd really love to hear some of that!
You’re a really funny channel! I especially liked the joke about king boo
Thanks man!
I think it’s important to note how incredible the bosses in the Luigi’s Mansion series are, ESPECIALLY in the third game. That piano fight was SICK
Luigis mansion has a boatload of cool bosses with puzzle mechanics like the entirety of the first games mansion
There was that one boss fight where the caveman ghost possesses a t-Rex skeleton and that one was sooooo cool.
The one Boom Boom fight I’ve ever enjoyed was his last fight from Bowser’s Fury. The arena is completely covered in on-again, off-again spikes, so you have an extra dangerous element to monitor when timing your jumps.
That is an acceptable Boom Boom fight
i never really had a problem with platformer bosses tbh. the 2D Sonic games in particular pretty much shaped my idea of a boss fight at a young age, being that they aren’t really structured as “wait around until damage phase.” you could always attack Eggman, but he could also always attack you in turn. funny enough, that’s a big part of why i fell in love with Dark Souls years later
I think 2D sonic gets bosses right half the time. Sometimes the bosses can just be damage boosted through and be defeated in seconds and other times they actually test the player
3:38 "The only hint you get is fludd assuming he won't like spicy food because he's white"
IM DYING 😆😆😆
And king boo is dying of spice dont laugh at him lmao
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming dude's about to become a ghostghost
I thought the fight against Bouldergeist was slow and stressful, but the boss himself is such an amazing design!
He freaked me out as a kid but now I realized that was just pure good game design
this is why I love Galaxy. tbh it's a tragedy that SMG2 was lost with the wii. both were amazing games, though i never got to finish Galaxy 2 before my wii broke. the Bowser fight of Galaxy 1 also feels like an actual final boss, worthy of such an amazing game. hell, every bowser fight had me jumping out of my seat, and it felt like an actual accomplishment to beat him. thank god it got ported to the switch
so glad you gave galaxy the boss fight recognition it deserves. when you said "nintendo HAS made some great mario boss fights" i immediately thought of a few of the fights in the galaxy games, which are up there with my favorite games Ever of All Time. and yeah, Bouldergeist is a GREAT pick. i occasionally replay through the galaxy games for nostalgias sake, and i always look forward to fighting him. even as a younger kid he always stood out to me as.. the least mario-boss mario boss in the game, and i love him for that. just the sheer fact he takes like a minimum of EIGHT hits to kill really makes him feel more like the much younger cousin of a dark souls fight or something.
Both Bouldergeist and his prankster comet are some of the most memorable stars in the game
I personally really don't like SMG's bosses.
To me, they're unfair, frustrating, and extremely unfun.
You can like them if you want, but to me, they are some of the worst bosses ever.
@@superdean9966 do you have a single reason for saying that, or do you just get sexual gratification from being a contrarian online?
@@the_goodest_boy No.
I just get crippling anxiety from people saying something that I don't like :)
@@the_goodest_boy destroyed him like a boss
Even as a kid I freaking loved Bouldergeist's fight. It was just so cool
Ive been a bouldergeist stan since day 1 and I can say Im very happy to see him get the praise he deserves
We stan bouldergeist in this household absolutely
I still think the super mario galaxy bosses were the most fun because the locations were so unique and the background had a lot
Galaxy is the best mario game's the art direction is so amazing
Pizza tower is a fantastic platformer with fantastic bosses. It came out way after this video came out but still! Felt like it was worth a mention
Respect to Hat in Time for proving platformers can have great boss fights
Hat in time is basically inspired from mario galaxy which explains so
Ok the joke at 3:39 actually 100% sold this video for me. Great work!
Thanks for watching!
*Writing this at **0:37*
It's funny, because platformers *can* do bosses really well. Take Wario Land 1, 4, and Shake It for example. Each one of them allows you to beat them faster and faster as you master their fights, and Wario's bruiser-type characteristics make him pretty good in a fight.
EDIT: Watched the rest of the video, and pretty much all of it is accurate.
Yeah I think a ton of other platformers do boss fights well, it's just the mario series that really can't nail it
You got some good in-depth videos here. Very well done content here, best keep it up. And I see your point, the worst is the Imprisoned from Skyward Sword. A dull, slow fight you do 3 damn times
I’ve never gotten around to playing skyward sword but I have heard some negative things about the imprisoned. Overall I think Zelda has some pretty good boss fights technical wise with the item introduced and fleshed out in the dungeon prior is then used to defeat the boss. Although this can make the boss design a bit boring at times
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Honestly Skyward Sword is still a terrific game, just has flaws. And the game has a super good boss in the Ancient Cistern, probably the best water dungeon Zelda has done too...now I want to play skyward sword again haha
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming the imprisoned was my least favourite boss of any zelda game
3:40 "King Boo doesn't like spicy things because he's white"
HAHAHAHA
Another game series that expands on mechanics introduced are the portal games. They're pretty formulaic: introduce a mechanic, use the mechanic in a different way, combine with previous mechanics. However, it creates a natural progression and that progression applies to the bosses as well. In Portal 1, you bait missle shots to hit GLaDOS, pick up the core that drops using different mechanics with the portals, and then drop them into an incinerator. This comes after you use momentum from falling to launch yourself, incinerate your companion cube, and bait missiles to destroy glass. And in Portal 2, you learn about how to use gels and bombs in a similar way.
Portal is one of those games that I absolutely need to play but I keep pushing it further into my backlog
Huge wall of text ahead, but read if you’re interested
The final boss (Ogura) in his rematch in the final phase in Densetsu no Stafy 2 follows the flaw of waiting heavily than in the first game. For the uninitiated, in order to defeat Ogura in both games, Starfy (the main character) has to attack Ogura’s weak spot, which are his eyes. Ogura will use attacks every so often to try and prevent Starfy from getting to his eyes. Ogura has 5 health, like every other boss. In order to actually damage him, you have to hit his eyes 5 times. That’s the general rundown of how to beat him. In the first game, the boss is very generous to do this, but the fight gets somewhat harder with Ogura using new attacks like repeatedly slamming his hands to the ground causing spikes to fall from above and trying to crush Starfy by summoning two hands which if successful, the player has to mash to escape. After Ogura takes damage past the second hit, he becomes enraged, disappears, fires giant fireballs at Starfy at a fast rate although these can be avoided with ease by swimming away from them. Then Ogura returns to the arena and is vulnerable to be hit again. This is slightly harder because of Ogura’s new attacks in his arsenal, but it’s pretty intense and fun. Although in the second game, the final phase’s rematch is a NIGHTMARE to fight! Ogura has a total of 6 attacks including the giant fireball attack from the previous game. The fight has the same premise, but he has 2 hands that he actually uses in this fight. Each hand has a different attack with the left shooting fireballs in a circle-like pattern and the right summons 8 icicles in a circle formation and home in on Starfy’s position after a few seconds pass by. However, each hand can be temporarily destroyed if Starfy hits them 8 times. For every time they respawn, they only take 4. This essentially makes getting around the arena easier as Starfy gets knocked back if he touches the hands making some attacks especially in corners hard to maneuver around. But the real pain in the butt is the attacks that don’t come from his hands. He has a laser attack where he stops moving and two small lasers come out of his eyes, then a laser flies to either the top or bottom half of the arena followed by a giant laser. The attack itself isn’t too hard to dodge if you look at where the small laser is going. Then there’s the bomb attack where he spits out 8 bombs from his mouth that fly upwards, then fall on Starfy’s position. These bombs hurt Starfy regardless if they were spat out or they’re falling. Then there’s the swallow attack where he stops moving and tries to swallow and spit out Starfy by sucking him in which is very easy to dodge by holding the A button and moving away from where he’s pulling you in. It’s also indicated by his hands flashing a purple/pink color but may be slightly harder to tell if his hands have been destroyed. All the non-hand attacks I mentioned make his eyes invulnerable which drags the fight even longer and the swallow attack makes his hands invulnerable.
The worst part is that he can do these attacks in succession with one another dragging the fight REALLLY long if he wants to. And remember that fireball attack from the previous game? Everytime he takes damage he uses it but he fires the projectiles at a slower rate but they are also bigger and have a huge hitbox meaning you have to move even more carefully. But that’s not the end of the road, fellas. Cuz Ogura’s got one last surprise to make this a real nightmare. After he reaches 1 health, after using the fireball attack, he will attempt to heal back to 2 HP, which can only be stopped by destroying his hands which can be very difficult to do when he performs the move. This is mostly why destroying his hands is near necessary to end the fight, but constant use of the swallow attack plus his other attacks make this a chore as his hands can regenerate if he stalls for long enough meaning that he will try to heal at EVERY opportunity he gets. All this really shows how Ogura’s rematch is not fun in the second game as all he does is stall 24/7 and no matter how well you play and wait, you will most likely take damage. I can’t see myself actually beating Ogura damage-less in years no matter how good I get.
I never played a Starfy game, but this is a great writeup!
Dark Souls dragon is the best Mario boss
Hard to argue with real life dragon
another thing galaxy 1 & 2 did is that a handful of the bosses dont follow the 3-hit rule
Galaxy 1 & 2 are PEAK Mario boss design
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming it really is
kirby boss fights are really well designed. bosses have health bars rather than taking a set amount of hits, and your copy abilities allow you to damage the boss at any time. so the challenge comes from learning how to avoid and take advantage of the boss's attack patterns, which are usually quite varied.
I loved Magalor in Return to Dreamland and Queen Sectonia in Triple Deluxe
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming kirby final bosses are straight up art
The bosses are also super intimidating too. When I played planet robobot and first fought cleanly woods I had no clue what to do but when I figured it out it was such a cool fight.
“Boss fights in platformers are usually not the highlight of the game”
Sonic frontiers:
Literally every Mega Man game:
The ruined dragon was told that it was an E-rated game so he purposely showed only an eighth of his power. So sad :(
I was intimidated. I needed at least half of the effort put in! I don't really care much for bosses in these games. Easy and straightforward. The dragon didn't look easy and straightforward though 😭
The dragon was such a surprise and was so cool at first until I realized it was barely a threat
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Same here! That's why it's intimidating when the enemies are actually as threatening as they look!
I like the boss fights in pizza tower. It's a nice change of pace
there's not a lot of running, and they pretty much all take place in a simple square room
But mastering them is still satisfying.
Mario bosses: 🤠
Mario bosses when they get hit twice: 😡
Mario bosses when they get hit thrice: 💀
I’ve had fun with many platformer bosses. I think hack and slashes are more of the culprit for “wait too long” bosses.
Waiting is just a general culprit in a lot of genres
Bro hard agree, start to finish. Good work putting all this in a good cohesive way
Just found your channel and loving the content. Keep it up!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you found me
I really like Celeste's boss design philosophy, where each boss is basically a level mechanic that is integrated into the design of still platforming-focused levels. Instead of dropping the game's strengths to create a boss encounter, it has bosses that work as part of its strengths.
I mean Celeste really only has one boss in Badeline (I guess Oshiro too) but I love that boss to death so I have to agree
Celeste “bosses” (oshiro, badeline) probably don’t have the limitations of standard fights, since they are really just normal screens
I’d say the real Celeste “bosses” are the longer screens near the end of every chapter (most notably Farewell’s final room, but it’s in other chapters and even subchapters for longer chapters or mods). It has a difficulty spike and an additional focus on endurance that is less present in other parts of the game, but it is still the same game, so it isn’t as jarring as the standard fights in boxed arenas.
Note that some mods do implement traditional fights, e.g. Monika’s 6D (has a closed arena fight against Badeline in one room), Conqueror’s Peak (vs the conqueror in the final fight). They usually don’t overstay their welcome
I love all of the kingdom-specific bosses in Mario Odyssey, they hold the same design philosophies you talked about with the Bouldergeist boss. For example, in the Luncheon Kingdom, You spend most of the level learning how to use the Podoboo capture, and the boss puts your skills with the capture to the test, making you weave through projectiles and obstacles while you try to damage the boss. Most of them also keep the kingdom's theme well.
Im glad you mentioned bouldergheist. That boss single handedly convinced me that Mario galaxy was an o.k. game to an amazing game.
I’m glad you think so!
I personally couldn't get attached to Super Mario Sunshine, although I do admit it has one of the greatest boss fights in Mario history: Manta Storm.
You are tasked to clean up the electric goo that's spread on the resort, until you get attacked. The mechanics are self explanatory: just spray the manta ray and it splits up in two. This makes a fight against one enemy with more health transition to a one vs. many fight with less health to a one vs. a lot of agressive enemies with a single hit point.
Plus you got the environment which is still partly covered in electric goo that damages you when you touch it. You just learned how to get rid of it, but now you have to focus on your enemies as well.
For me this fight is easily the highlight of the entire game.
The phantamanta is a fantastic boss fight with its free form nature, minimal waiting, and you get the entirety of the beach as your battlefield. Definitely a highlight!
mario bosses after two hits:😠
mario bosses after three hits:☠️
I am a fairly frequent Super Mario Maker 2 player, but an even more avid SMM2 Level Creator. Ive been attempting to make an entire super world of traditional levels meant to feel like an actual mario game (with a pinch of extra difficulty of course), and one of the most important things about this to me is the Bosses in each world. Hearing this criticism on how traditional bosses function is actually really helpful, and most of all encouraging, because i realize that I have so far managed to build off of the negative parts of Mario Bosses and do what the originals did not. So simply, Thank You :>
Hey no problem and good luck on your level building journey!
Bouldergeist was one of my favorite bosses playing through Mario Galaxy
There was a game that made Bosses on Plattformers really good.
I don't know the name, but it was a Prince of Persia for the PSP.
I remember that it was some kind of plattforming puzzle where the enemy shot you to knock you off. I spent days trying to land the correct jumps and avoiding his shots until I managed to hit him. I felt that it was pretty cool.
The only other mainline Mario game I believe does bosses well is Odyssey. Sure, their fights aren't specifically related to the main mechanics of the fight, apart from the non-Broodal battles, but experienced players can attack the Broodals during the infamous waiting stages. They're a close second to Galaxy's boss designs.
There are many bosses in Mario Odyssey that do the same thing as many of the Mario Galaxy bosses. For example the Mechabroode buids on the mechanics of the Pokios encountered earlier in Bowser's Kingdom. As a bonus, there are many ways to speed up the boss fight if you're skilled enough. There are lots of other examples as well, but that one is just my favorite.
I like it when games dont tell you what to do (to a certain degree). Like King Boo in SMSunshine. Its supposed to throw you off i believe.
“Platformer Bosses have never really been the highlight of their game.”
Kirby games: *Allow me to introduce myself.*
I'm 2 minutes in and you've already hit the nail on the head. I can tell that you know what you are saying and that you have the understanding necessary to make it better.
Normies when the example wasn't major borrows cuz hes in gusty:
How to commit genocide
Good video, completely agree that most bosses in the series are just there without much of purpose, the point of the bosses just being an intermission or mini game is really good
“platformer bosses have never really been the highlight of the game”
Cup head:
Am I a joke to you?
Wario bosses are Chad tier.
*Sees King Bob-omb* To be fair, I’m pretty sure that’s a tutorial boss. 64 never gets much better in that regard, but I think the ease in the fight was intentional.
*Sees Casino King Boo.* To be fair, that is indicative of Sunshine’s quality all around. 😂
bouldergeist reminds me of this one boss from luigis mansion 1
Hell yeah that's a good boss too
Lol this was a great video, I enjoyed your analysis
You definitely bring up some good points here. I also get kind of sick of all the Mario bosses, especially in the 2D games, being a boring waiting game a lot of the time and just not feeling very inspired in general.
I hadn't really thought about how well designed a lot of the Mario Galaxy bosses are. They actually feel like highlights of the game, rather than just being tacked on for the sake of having a boss fights in the game.
At least Mega Man bosses are/were thematically consistent and don't involve waiting for head bops.
Mega man does have some classics
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Guts Man is one of them. Everybody knows Guts Man has one of the most practical boss designs in the Mega Man franchise.
Underrated video.
Well I’m glad you found it!
As a kid, I remember the challenge in fights like the king boo example (3:59) being attempting to figure out how the fight works.
I think that's the intention; give you platforming challenges (dodging the attacks) as you try to figure out how to beat this thing. Like a puzzle.
I agree it doesn't always land though, and it is generally a weird disconnect from the mechanics of the level leading up to it.
Pizza Tower knew what they were doing lol
Pizza Tower bosses sucked tbh
I mean, keep in mind these are made for kids. When I was a kid, Boom Boom was an actual threat. Even waiting could be stressful for a kid especially when the boss does an attack during it. Like you said with Galaxy.
But yeah King Boo from Sunshine was the epitome of waiting and “how was I supposed to know to do that?” And omg the waiting was horrible. Because when he does finally spin the wheel, it’s not always the fruit.
Even if the games are made for kids I do think copying and pasting boom boom 8 different times isn’t great and there are boss fights that can be engaging while still being easy
I was just about to leave a comment about the Galaxy bosses before you mentioned them, great video
What can I say i read minds sometimes
Why not watch the video before coming to a conclusion 1/3rd of your way through.
I agree, the Galaxies NAILED how boss integration should work
I admit, Nintendo is not the best at making challenging bosses, but that doesn't mean they're not the best at making fun and enjoyable bosses either. I'm fine with the whole 3 time hits n stuff as long as they're fun and actually let the bosses have a small moment to themselves so they can attack again instead of just continuously hitting them a few times
Pizza Tower Bosses: Allow us to introduce ourselves
New Super Mario Bros. had such amazing bosses but they went back to koopalings after it and I have no clue why
Immediately went yes a you mentioned Galaxy, excited even more when you say Boulder-geist, he was a neat boss
Dude I loved in the original new super Mario bros when you would HAVE to fight the bosses with a mini mushroom to unlock the secret levels. It made them a lot harder!!
That was such a cool mechanic to unlock the secret worlds and I’d like to see it come back in the future
1:31 1:10 2:18 I See Now. 2:29 4:21 6:01 6:40 7:09 8:06 8:25 8:50
I only partly agree with waiting. Waiting is actually one of the most important aspects of a lot of boss fights, but I agree with the fact that it is incredibly underutilized, not regarding the amount of waiting, but regarding what you wait for, and how you wait. It also highly depends on the difficulty of the boss. If you're dealing with a very hard boss, where you have to wait for it to do a certain move to expose its weakness, or if you wait for the boss to do a specific attack so you can get closer for more damage, that's fine. The problem with Mario resides in how easy the bosses are. While you're waiting, there is absolutely no tension at all in almost every single boss fight in Mario games. The only very prominent exceptions, that actaully use waiting well, are the following: Bouldergeist, Kamella (Deep dark), Final bowser fight in SMBW, and final bowser fight in Super Mario Galaxy. While the latter does involve a lot of waiting, at least Bowser constantly throws something new at you, so it doesn't feel dragged out. Bouldergeist has almost minimal waiting, and its premise is actually amazing, and the SMBW bowser fight makes you wait for fireballs to break the wall, but it's expertly done.
Anyways, what I was trying to say, is that waiting is only a bad thing, if the boss design is too predictable and easy, and if the waiting in question doesn't have a prominent role, instead of just making the player "Wait just for waiting sake."
thank you for this
Bouldergeist was always my favorite boss in any Mario game.
I went into this video prepared to hear you dunk on Mario Galaxy, my favorite game ever, and was pleasantly surprised to say the least
“How would you know to throw the pepper” If only Mario had some sort of sidekick which would tell him how his enemies might react to things! Thatd be cool!
The biggest issue with a Mario boss fight comes from the fact that in most Mario games, Mario has no offensive moves that aren't tied to his health. If you want to throw fireballs, you can't take a hit. The moment Mario takes damage, he has no way to deal damage. So, all bosses must either be vulnerable to being jumped upon, which makes them really easy, but ties in to the core mechanic of Mario: jumping, or a boss must provide the weapon you need to defeat it, which necessitates waiting for the boss's attack pattern to get to the point where it gives you your weapon. In the 3D Mario games, Mario has some attack options regardless of his health, so those boss fights tend to be more proactive, where Mario needs to find an opening and attack. In the 2D games, Mario has to either jump on their head, or wait for them to give him a weapon. If Bowser didn't stand on bridges that can be collapsed by an axe, he would have won already.
Bouldergiest was so fun and hard simply because it had more than 1 actual phase, and because of the 4th and 8th hits being very unique.
I agree! Although this boss right here 4:45 is such an interesting mechanic that I love
So glad to see someone give rightful praise to the best Mario boss! Good video, haha.
Mario Galaxy truly did have amazing bosses. I feel like the quality of a game is largely dependent on its boss design. Kirby is a fantastic example of this. In fact, the bosses are often the most fun part of the series for me. Blowout Blast -- Kirby in a 3D space for the first time -- takes it to a whole new level.
But with Mario, bosses tend to be too quick, too annoying, too easy, and/or too awkward. Bouldergeist really is the pinnacle of this design -- even if you've nailed the fight, there's still a challenge, there's still fun to be had. It's not just jump, step away for a bit, jump, step away for a bit.
Really good analysis here! Loved the vid :)
SMB3's final boss was great. With randomized attacks and destructible terrain the fight is engaging and dynamic with just one phase.
SMB3’s boss is actually pretty good I agree, the koopalings in that game on the other hand…
The "classic" games and 3D games seem to have totally different design philosophies, and these problems mostly just relate to the "classic" ones (basically, 2D games, 3D Land and 3D World), and I agree with it, although there are ways to speed up some of those boring koopaling fights, too, for example jumping on them right after they come out of the shell before they even have a chance to attack, and also using ground pound on the first hit to deal double damage.
64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1-2 and Odyssey are much better in this regard. Yes even Sunshine. For Petey Piranha if you aim properly you can fill his belly in one go. For the best boss, the Manta Storm you are completely on the offense, and are free to be cautious or agressive with a wide variety of strategies. The giant wiggler can also be defeated fast if you strategically target the sandcastles in front of him. Even for Bowser you can go slowly to get around his attacks fast, or use the rocket to fly around and reach your targets fast.
But gotta agree with the Bouldergeist fight being awesome.
The manta is definitely the best boss in sunshine it’s such a cool idea to turn an entire level into the arena. I will say Sunshine has some really poor bosses that kinda balance the good like cleaning the teeth of the Eel or all the times you have to fight that paint piranha
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Yeah, that one sucked for sure.
What I was try to say, whether the individual bosses were good or not, they mostly follow a better design philosphy, similar to Galaxy (and also SM64) where you are on the offence, or at the very least, can easily trigger the enemy's attack.
Sunshine is more janky and unpolished than most Mario games, it was rushed, and it shows. It's amazing at its best, but downright broken at its worst.
Oh my god yes. The king boo fight in sunshine took me so long to figure out and it made me really frustrated.
Just adding up to Bouldergeist. If you use correctly the Bomb Boos in the "protected phase" you can save a couple of seconds. You can get an extra boo from the "protected phase" to attack the red blob in the "exposed phase" instead of waiting until a bomb boo spawn from the shadows
Great Video! Bouldergiest is still one of my favorite Mario fights in all the games! But if I may ask, what is the “prankster comment?”
Edit: Nvm, I misheard lol.
And here I was worried I would disagree with you based on the thumbnail. Glad I can relate to your sentiments about the SMG bosses
3:41 underrated joke, caught me off guard lmao.
Bosses have always been the absolute highlight of every platformer I have ever played and I thought everyone felt the same. It's weird to me that someone would like a normal level more than a boss.