Back in high school a decade ago I was running OITG on a cheap laptop without dedicated graphics. Only chugged a slight bit on some of the more busy mod charts.
IMO - the most interesting part about your observations have to do with the increased memory consumption that Outfox exhibits over time. I talked in person at a convention with one of the Outfox devs at a convention a month or two ago, wish I had brought this up at the time. What I _did_ mention was the lack of built-in Groovestats integration is one big thing holding me back from switching back over (plus the obvious closed-source topic, which I won't opine on here). Also, holy crap you're a Project Farm fan, I would die for Todd to see this.
Hi, that was me you talked to. I run outfox 24/7 without memory issues, and a very low spec machine. But I don't use windows, so I have never experienced this issue. I had a 84 day uptime with 2G ram. Definitely interested in what the windows users say. Honestly might just be a simple config.
top one reason why I still use openITG - I just have a lot of old hardware that can no longer perform everyday tasks (of course, it’s a pity to throw it all away and I won’t be able to sell it), but for openITG it still perfect
One thing you missed by testing rate mods exclusively on 2.0x is that fractional rate mods like 1.2x greatly degrade the audio quality in OpenITG. This bug is fixed in both NotITG and ITGMania, so I'd recommend those programs if you prefer your rate mods nightcored 😅
I was listening to this in the background thinking "Wow, did Dom copy Project Farm's video layout AND voice unironically?" and then I checked the description and saw the background lol. Very cool vid
The DDR XX Starlight theme is cool and all that, but it's more resource consuming so if you're using an old PC as a Stepmania machine it could have mini lags from time to time
Thanks for making this video. I just got the SMX pads this month and I've been trying to figure out which Stepmania version to use with it. I haven't used Stepmania since 3.9.
I didn't talk much about features in this video but if you're jumping back in and aren't super familiar, I think you'll have the best experience with either Outfox or ITGmania. Welcome back!
Preserve pitch is so terrible how it absolutely destroys transients. If it used a better time-stretch algorithm I'd consider it. Otherwise I'll be sticking with chipmunk vocals.
ITGmania for me all the way. significantly smoother with less frame drops and all of the features that make it optimal for four panel pad play are really nice.
OpenITG is my personal pick but it's mostly because of nostalgia from ITG2 AC theme. Simply Love is great if you want deep customization and visual metrics.
i think a on lot comes down to that Simply Love seems to be developed specifically for the 5.1 engine. i wonder if using default themes or something else would change the results of the memory tests. so this testing is moreso specifically "best stepmania version to use Simply Love on"
That's true but there are also several popular themes based on simply love. I know there are players that use other themes that aren't based on simply love but I'm not super familiar with those and it took so much out of me to gather these benchmarks, I don't really feel bad not adding more variables. But I'd love to see some results of anyone else wants to give it a go!
sorry if i made it sound like your testing was invalid. it's perfectly valid it just has a bias towards Simply Love users, which is the majority anyway. i really liked the video
Been using ITGMania lately so i can still run a fork of 5.1 that is also compatible with DDR XX Starlight. Simply Love is fun and all but when i play with people that never played ITG and don't know how the ranking system works, its just best to use DDR XX for the SN2 ranking system where even if you don't get a PFC you can still get AAA
Maybe DOM can help with this silly Question!! I was playing On A Day Like Today on Stepmania And Noticed the Stepchart to be missing a section/changed (a stream was Missing)? Is There an Option to have it play like I remembered on ITG I have not changed any options other than the noteskins.
IMHO: measuring the performance is moot. Most platforms run fine on +10-year-old hardware and now everybody could buy one of those small Chinese pc for $200 bucks which is way cheaper than any decent dance pad.
Stepmania is a engine that exists. I've seen notitg (on non mod files, based on openitg) preform insanely better then any sm5 client on older set ups, well outfox preform really good on newer set ups. In your case with a new set up, in my opinion you also have to consider thr new features of outfox that might be used in the future, including better mod file support, new note types, and other future theme features. Pointing these problems out relating to outfox performance other then fps helps the outfox team fix these things, as they are updating way more often then itgm is with there beta testing program. So also bringing up that the program is still being worked on more clearly would have cleared things up too just in case the preformace gets even better. Me not knowing and wording things I hear my own way, stepmania is a program with code in it from 2002. The program is abbizmal to work with in a coding sense, so anyone developing to fix these problems are doing a good job! Outfox developing the engine well keeping compatibility with all sm5 content, well adding features I personally use is why I pick it. I don't know how the stepmania engine works, so I have no reason to touch source code. I play more then just stamina, and since outfox can do way more with modding sm files, it's more compatible with files I play then 5.1. In the future, submitting to 2 leader boards instead of one if appalling to me as well. But in the end, I just want to play dance games with my friends. If I disagree with what you use or argue with you about clients, know that I'm still your friend. Sure it triggers me but in the end I'm still wanting to press arrows with you guys.
I'm no Outfox dev, but I am a programmer/game developer of ~7 years - what I think is happening with Outfox isn't a memory leak, but rather the garbage collector just doesn't kick in as often as other games. When loading and deleting things from RAM, you don't just magically get your RAM back as soon as you delete something from it, you need a garbage collector to free that RAM for you. I would guess that part of Outfox's optimizations for FPS includes calling the garbage collector much less often; un-used RAM is wasted RAM (keeping redundant things in RAM improves loading time), and calling the garbage collector takes processing time that would be better allocated to having a more consistent FPS.
Stepmania is written in C++, so there is normally no garbage collector. Memory is managed manually. Since Outfox does not claim to be a total rewrite, it is almost certainly still C++ and still not using a garbage collector.
It's clear from the CPU usage graphs that all the versions other than OpenITG are simply using all the CPU resources available to them while limited to 1 core. This is why they are all basically flat at 25% utilization (your i5-6600K is a 4 core CPU). This explains why they have a higher framerate than OpenITG, but it also makes the CPU utilization results pretty useless, because it doesn't show how they will run on a low end machine. I suppose it does show that OpenITG is best if you're worried about power consumption though, since OpenITG is the only version that throttles itself. My overall conclusion from this data is that if you want to run on a very low performance machine, use Stepmania 5.1 or OpenITG. Otherwise, use any version you want, but avoid Outfox if you want to play long sessions. The difference between 400 FPS and 600 FPS will be completely unnoticeable even if you have a 240 FPS monitor.
Dom what’s up with this “tv ad” voice you got going on during this video it makes watching this unbearable the normal voice you used in your video on scuffed set ups and stamina pads was so much better
@@no_uhs5249 no worries dude. i appreciate the feedback regardless. some day i will definitely fall off and im sure one of you guys will help me correct it haha
Very informative video as always 👍
OpenITG is basically the best build for school laptops
Back in high school a decade ago I was running OITG on a cheap laptop without dedicated graphics. Only chugged a slight bit on some of the more busy mod charts.
I love how well OpenITG performed
Very impressive!
IMO - the most interesting part about your observations have to do with the increased memory consumption that Outfox exhibits over time. I talked in person at a convention with one of the Outfox devs at a convention a month or two ago, wish I had brought this up at the time. What I _did_ mention was the lack of built-in Groovestats integration is one big thing holding me back from switching back over (plus the obvious closed-source topic, which I won't opine on here).
Also, holy crap you're a Project Farm fan, I would die for Todd to see this.
Hi, that was me you talked to. I run outfox 24/7 without memory issues, and a very low spec machine. But I don't use windows, so I have never experienced this issue. I had a 84 day uptime with 2G ram. Definitely interested in what the windows users say. Honestly might just be a simple config.
top one reason why I still use openITG - I just have a lot of old hardware that can no longer perform everyday tasks (of course, it’s a pity to throw it all away and I won’t be able to sell it), but for openITG it still perfect
"definitely think twice before attempting a 24 hour marathon" ok yeah but not just because of memory utilization
😂
Oh yeah, can't forget the power bill
The Project Farm impression was spot-on, and had me laughing the whole time. Very impressive!
One thing you missed by testing rate mods exclusively on 2.0x is that fractional rate mods like 1.2x greatly degrade the audio quality in OpenITG. This bug is fixed in both NotITG and ITGMania, so I'd recommend those programs if you prefer your rate mods nightcored 😅
I was listening to this in the background thinking "Wow, did Dom copy Project Farm's video layout AND voice unironically?" and then I checked the description and saw the background lol. Very cool vid
The DDR XX Starlight theme is cool and all that, but it's more resource consuming so if you're using an old PC as a Stepmania machine it could have mini lags from time to time
Thanks for making this video. I just got the SMX pads this month and I've been trying to figure out which Stepmania version to use with it. I haven't used Stepmania since 3.9.
I didn't talk much about features in this video but if you're jumping back in and aren't super familiar, I think you'll have the best experience with either Outfox or ITGmania. Welcome back!
Preserve pitch is so terrible how it absolutely destroys transients. If it used a better time-stretch algorithm I'd consider it. Otherwise I'll be sticking with chipmunk vocals.
after ITGmania released its my main lmao. i switched from 5.0.12-outfox-ITG mania
ITGmania for me all the way. significantly smoother with less frame drops and all of the features that make it optimal for four panel pad play are really nice.
OpenITG is my personal pick but it's mostly because of nostalgia from ITG2 AC theme. Simply Love is great if you want deep customization and visual metrics.
Okay, this is amazing. Someone share this with project farm.
i think a on lot comes down to that Simply Love seems to be developed specifically for the 5.1 engine. i wonder if using default themes or something else would change the results of the memory tests. so this testing is moreso specifically "best stepmania version to use Simply Love on"
That's true but there are also several popular themes based on simply love. I know there are players that use other themes that aren't based on simply love but I'm not super familiar with those and it took so much out of me to gather these benchmarks, I don't really feel bad not adding more variables. But I'd love to see some results of anyone else wants to give it a go!
@@domitg yeah it's certainly fine the way you did, just got to keep the test limitations in mind. it's certainly accurate for a typical stamina player
sorry if i made it sound like your testing was invalid. it's perfectly valid it just has a bias towards Simply Love users, which is the majority anyway. i really liked the video
I appreciate the feedback! But I did shudder at the thought of using the default SM5 theme 😩
Great video, very impressive!
Been using ITGMania lately so i can still run a fork of 5.1 that is also compatible with DDR XX Starlight.
Simply Love is fun and all but when i play with people that never played ITG and don't know how the ranking system works, its just best to use DDR XX for the SN2 ranking system where even if you don't get a PFC you can still get AAA
OpenITG is made to run on a dedicab PC's or something? Sorry I don't know a lot about it
Which one is best at reloading after a crash?
what GPU and CPU combo do you recommend to run itg mania at +300fps stable at 2k?
Can any of them support reading a song frome a thumb drive?
haha lmao love the project farm impression
OpenITG seems like a very nice choice for people looking to make an arcade box with a raspberry pi or some other microcomputers
A recent windows update broke outfox for me so back to 5.1b2
very helpful vid.
other than og sm5, what other version has the most theme compatability
Witch one has a FREAKING SEARCH FUNCTION!!
i just wanna know where to get all the songs...
itgpacks.com
Can any of them be played online? something similar to osu for example?
Maybe DOM can help with this silly Question!! I was playing On A Day Like Today on Stepmania And Noticed the Stepchart to be missing a section/changed (a stream was Missing)? Is There an Option to have it play like I remembered on ITG I have not changed any options other than the noteskins.
lmao I love this
I only etterna so I have no idea whether to switcj lmao
Im still On OpenITG
I cant get my pad ro register on itgmania I want to use it super bad too
Which of the 4 versions has the most accurate or difficult judgment window?
all of them let you set your own timing windows
@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN thanks man!
the theme, specifically Simply Love, is what ultimately determines which judgment windows are used
stepmania benchmarking 😮
nightcore wins again 💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥
IMHO: measuring the performance is moot. Most platforms run fine on +10-year-old hardware and now everybody could buy one of those small Chinese pc for $200 bucks which is way cheaper than any decent dance pad.
Is FPS even a problem when you're getting 400+?
ok so what about for mac? 😭
outfox. full stop
Stepmania is a engine that exists. I've seen notitg (on non mod files, based on openitg) preform insanely better then any sm5 client on older set ups, well outfox preform really good on newer set ups.
In your case with a new set up, in my opinion you also have to consider thr new features of outfox that might be used in the future, including better mod file support, new note types, and other future theme features.
Pointing these problems out relating to outfox performance other then fps helps the outfox team fix these things, as they are updating way more often then itgm is with there beta testing program. So also bringing up that the program is still being worked on more clearly would have cleared things up too just in case the preformace gets even better.
Me not knowing and wording things I hear my own way, stepmania is a program with code in it from 2002. The program is abbizmal to work with in a coding sense, so anyone developing to fix these problems are doing a good job! Outfox developing the engine well keeping compatibility with all sm5 content, well adding features I personally use is why I pick it.
I don't know how the stepmania engine works, so I have no reason to touch source code. I play more then just stamina, and since outfox can do way more with modding sm files, it's more compatible with files I play then 5.1. In the future, submitting to 2 leader boards instead of one if appalling to me as well.
But in the end, I just want to play dance games with my friends. If I disagree with what you use or argue with you about clients, know that I'm still your friend. Sure it triggers me but in the end I'm still wanting to press arrows with you guys.
11:15 is it okay to leave a comment even though i don't have a video idea?
wheres etterna
I'm no Outfox dev, but I am a programmer/game developer of ~7 years - what I think is happening with Outfox isn't a memory leak, but rather the garbage collector just doesn't kick in as often as other games.
When loading and deleting things from RAM, you don't just magically get your RAM back as soon as you delete something from it, you need a garbage collector to free that RAM for you. I would guess that part of Outfox's optimizations for FPS includes calling the garbage collector much less often; un-used RAM is wasted RAM (keeping redundant things in RAM improves loading time), and calling the garbage collector takes processing time that would be better allocated to having a more consistent FPS.
Stepmania is written in C++, so there is normally no garbage collector. Memory is managed manually. Since Outfox does not claim to be a total rewrite, it is almost certainly still C++ and still not using a garbage collector.
I will have windows 10 and 11 64 bits now I have windows 7😪
So, what do you use? Lol
more project dom plz
It's clear from the CPU usage graphs that all the versions other than OpenITG are simply using all the CPU resources available to them while limited to 1 core. This is why they are all basically flat at 25% utilization (your i5-6600K is a 4 core CPU). This explains why they have a higher framerate than OpenITG, but it also makes the CPU utilization results pretty useless, because it doesn't show how they will run on a low end machine. I suppose it does show that OpenITG is best if you're worried about power consumption though, since OpenITG is the only version that throttles itself.
My overall conclusion from this data is that if you want to run on a very low performance machine, use Stepmania 5.1 or OpenITG. Otherwise, use any version you want, but avoid Outfox if you want to play long sessions. The difference between 400 FPS and 600 FPS will be completely unnoticeable even if you have a 240 FPS monitor.
4/10 didn't test on core 2 duo
BABE WAKE UP NEW DOM
Only one of them has a waifu mascot :)
Dom what’s up with this “tv ad” voice you got going on during this video it makes watching this unbearable the normal voice you used in your video on scuffed set ups and stamina pads was so much better
I was trying to immitate @ProjectFarm 's cadence and video style 😅
@@domitg ah I see sorry if I was too harsh then I’m not familiar with project farm sorry
@@no_uhs5249 no worries dude. i appreciate the feedback regardless. some day i will definitely fall off and im sure one of you guys will help me correct it haha
That wallpaper though. 🤌
@dom ITG, do you have discord? I have some kortek questions I would love your help!