EXPLAINED: PCIe lane SWITCHING & Biggest MISTAKES! | Don't DO IT 👉 WRONG slot for m.2 SSD!
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- Why you don't want to make these mistakes!
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0:00 Intro
0:58 1. What are PCIe Lanes?
1:34 2. CPU vs CHIPSET PCIe lanes
6:32 AMD THREADRIPPER (AD)
7:44 3. How to find out how things are connected in your PC?
9:00 4. Understanding BLOCK DIAGRAM
14:30 5. Showing Examples on different motherboards AMD vs Intel
20:03 Conclusion: What it means to you?
21:21 BIGGEST MISTAKE!
22:55 Best PC creators can build?! - Věda a technologie
CORRECTION: Ryzen 7000 has 24+4 PCIe Gen 5 lanes instead of 20+4 what I said in the video. Thank you everyone for pointing that out! 😊
I honestly don't understand why you have background music playing when you're trying to explain something important. The background music makes it very hard to hear what you are saying and adds to the confusion of this video.
Threadripper is 120+8 or 60+4 (older not Pro). In the modern AMD structure every type of input/output device is connected through PCIe. So even on Threadripper the chipset lanes are still used for small peripheral connections that are not expected to have good latency and are not consistently moving enough data to justify reserving direct lanes for each device (x1 x2 or x4).
Do you have the link for the other video you did on the PCle lanes in more detail? You do a great job explaining.
i was about to say.. AM4 was 20+4 Gen4 (zen3/zen2) zen1/+ only gen3... still 20+4 ) but AM5 is 24+4 cuz we get 2x Gen5x4 m.2 NVMe from CPU (if you have X670E which is Bull$h1t
A litle late but . . . Ryzen 7000 have 24+4 (total 28) witch can only be totally in use with X670E. 20+4 (total 24) was the 3000 and 5000 series. The 1000 and 2000 was having 16 in total. You can have 1 GPU at gen 5x16 and 2 SSD NVME at gen 5x4 and the other via the chipset (can go to 2 gen 4 x4 as gen 5 x4 have double the bandwith).
There is a small mistake in the information you provided regarding the AMD 7000 CPU.
Number of PCI lanes is 24+4. Not 20+4.
That's not a small mistake though 😅
Yes, you are right, thanks for pointing that out!
@@dismuter_yt Yes, he enjoys making fun of JayzTwoCent's errors in some of the videos, but the motherboard he suggested can't read some of my hard drives, so I'm considering sending him the bill right now. ;))
If i set the pcie slot to x8x4x4 & i install a dual nvme expansion card on the slot what will happen?@@theTechNotice
Thanks for reviewing and clearing this up. I had chosen one of the gigabyte boards you recommended and had to make sure the SSd was in right slot to keep it going.
I am very glad there is Tech Notice out here making these kind of videos for creators. Everybody else talks only about gamer pcs. Anyhow even though I am still confused I at least know where to start looking - Block Diagrams. Thank you Tech Notice for making such videos and engaging in the comment section.
appreciate the comment, you're exactly who I'm making these videos for! :)
This comment right here. I second that sir! Thank you!
This video was a lot of word salad. Just check your motherboard manual.
@@michaelgleason4791 actually I found it fairly helpful considering, as a first time builder, I didn't know a lot of this.
Easier method:
I always check the Tech Spec -> Storage Section on their product website or the manual about M.2 slot before adding extra storage:
My Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming Tech Spec:
*3 When the M.2_1 Socket 3 is operating in SATA or PCIE mode, SATA6G_5/6 ports will be disabled.
*4 When the M.2_2 is occupied by M.2 device, PCIe x16_1 will run at x8 mode.
I don't want to give up the pcie lane for my GPU, so I bought a 2.5 SATA SSD as a secondary storage instead
Here are the spech of my MSI B650 th
3x M.2 (Qty)
M.2_1 Source (From CPU) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices
M.2_2 Source (From CPU) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices
M.2_3 Source (From Chipset) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices
6x SATA 6G (Qty)
• M2_2 supports PCIe 4.0 x2 speed when Ryzen™ 5 8500G is installed
so i can run a secondary nvme as storage?
Very good info on this! As a creator, this knowledge is very helpful on discerning your system and quite useful when building one and choosing the right motherboard that will be a benefit to your area of work.
Excellent video. One of the most informative channels out there. Well done.
Great video!! I really needed to know a lot of this information right now for a build I want to do 🙏🏾
Thanks for the video! Does this lane switching also hapenns on pcie 4.0 / pcie 4.0?
Great video!
I always check the manual of the motherboard, and I usually choose Gigabyte.
Question?: The MSI Mag Tomahawk Wifi DDR5 MAX does not have a cpu connected pci4 nvme slot other than slot 1. So the question is which is more beneficial having the main hard drive connected directly to cpu and leaving only 8 lanes for gpu; or connecting main hard drive to chipset and having 16 lanes for gpu? Articles I've seen so far seem to indicate a negligible performance difference between 8 lanes and 16 lanes for gpu usage, but I don't really see anything about the latency difference between using chipset or cpu for ssd...or combined evaluation. Right now I have a i7-12700K and rtx3050 so slot 1 for my nvme is for me as 3050 only uses 8 lanes anyway, but I am planning on upgrading in the future. Primarily used for gaming, but also learning python and GIS (GIS rendering seems intensive).
Gigabyte some of them- Yes z790 elite x has gen 4 m.2 top slot and 16 lane to first graphics card slot. so no switching! Good video as this confuses so many people
Excellent topic to discuss keep it up. Learned a lot.
Nice vid. Helped alot. Wish my motherboard had a diagram like that and not just words
Thanks Big time, finally I understand this kind of things, very helpful videos for creators in what to do and what not! THX.
MSI Tomahawk has some interesting potential for tweaked graphics performance due how it's laned with a direct to CPU slot and a chipset wired slot. Would be a great board for exploring the real difference in performance from various lane routing.
Great just picked up a z790 tomahawk, so my options are -
1. Read the manual or 2. Spend hours tinkering and benchmarking.
Looks like I'm gonna need more coffee :D
I have a Z690 Aero G DDR4 with a 12th Gen 12700K, and I was just looking at the recent Z790 boards and noted that the recent Z790 can reduce the top slot and was wonder why they went with the design. As I have populated all my 4 M.2 slots, I was quite surprised by the recent Z790 update, as it will be a concern if a creator needs the additional M.2, will have to choose between the m.2 and GPU. Hope that they will consider to review the reduction by the PCIE lane in future.
Very good and informative, now please compare speeds of gpu going in x16 and x8. Thanks for very good video!
There currently is no PCIE 5.0 GPU's 5 x8 is equal to 4 x16
any chance you know where I can get a block diagram for the ROG STRIX B650 E-E Gaming? I want to put in 2 SSD's M.2 NVMe, one for the OS the other for games? I was going to put the OS one in the nearest pcie 5 slot to the cpu and one in the 2nd pcie 5 slot below, but now not sure after watching your vid? HELP!
Amazing info.. well explained. Love you son cameo at 15:10 second.
My pro msi b650m A-WIFI board takes only gen 4 nvme ssds, will this affect my performance if I put it into my nvme in the one closest to the cpu?
Did you have simillar video about ram and what means 1:1 speed ratio etc and how to setup it?
Useful video. Although I knew some of the info, so many PC users live in negligence to know it.
Thanks, great info. I'm trying to decide which Z790 mainboard to get for my new pc... still confused. Looking at gigabyte-z790-aorus-elite-x block diagram. Look slike there is one PCI 5 x16 + 1 M.2 gen 4 connected to CPU, all other M2 etc are connected to the chipset. Shoudl I use the VGA + M2 connected to CPU or better to use M2 via chipset ? Maybe some one can recommend some mainboards that are better choice... ? Without breaking the bank :)
Check your manual if it indicates PCIEX16 G5 X16 AND M.2 X4 connected to CPU, then you will get the full 16 lanes for your GPU if you connect your M.2 to the top slot
So what mainboard did you chose?
@@kyrgeorge Gigabyte Auros Elite X wifi7 with g.skill ram @6000hz. Just had it few days, so far installed Linux without issues beside no wifi7. Win 11 works fine when installing using their media creation tool (not stand alone ISO), no M2 drives found, can't add mb drivers... The mb feels great, heavy and high quality, should last for next 5 years or so. On papper this new pc is 2.5x faster than my old pc with, but in reality for every day tasks the speed is about same to be honest. :)
I looked carefully at my Intel CPU 12900ks specs which is a 16+4 pci lane and my Asus Z690 rog hero board which indicates that all SSD NVme sticks are running through the chipset and none run off the 16 PCIe lane. Apparently Asus doesn't think that any Nvme SSD should run from that but rather the 4 lane chipset is sufficient. That means my GPU should get the full 16 lanes unless I was to plug something else into the PCIe lane or add another GPU. I believe this is correct. Please advise if I am wrong.
I really tried but i got morr confused but i will rewatch again
on z790 i9 14900k can i use gpu in top slot and in last 2 slots i wish to put evga nu audio pro ( it has 2 slots to take) is that gonna work fine ? and lets say 3x m2 samsung 990pro
Does the AM4 x570 chipset suffer from PCIE lane switching? I have a Samsung 990 Pro NVME SSD and I noticed that it is slower in the 2nd M.2 slot.
Thank you so much bro amazing information very helpful 🫡
There are PCIe 5.0 peripherals: the NVIDIA H100 GPU and ConnectX-7 NIC, and several SSDs.
You should note that the x16 connection on Intel LGA1700 can only be bifurcated x8/x8, which is less flexible than AM5 which allows x4/x4/x4/x4
I have an old 990fx AM3+ board (The northbridge provides all PCIe) and it has 40+4 PCIe2.0 lanes (data is sparse so a bit of collecting data and calculating on my part).
The 990 chipset could support(based on board vender), either 2 x16 ; x8/x8/x16 ; or x8/x8/x8/x8.
x32 is in the PCIe standard but I don't know of any x32 devices.
and still had 2 x4 and 2 x1 (or the option of 1 x4 and 6 x1 ) for expansion cards
2 or 4 PCIe lanes (unclear they renamed it alink-Express3), were used for the southbridge which handles all of the network(1Gb), USB(~10 mix of 2.0 and 3.0), 6-SATA, firewire, eSATA, audio and several legacy headers for things like serial and parallel.
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Ryzen 7000 series has 24+4 lanes to CPU. 16x lanes for PCIe, 8x lanes NVMe and 4x to chipset. On the x670e you have two "dedicated" M.2 slots to the CPU so no lane switching(sharing).
My MSI Z790 Edge WiFi DDR4 seems to have independent PCIe 5.0x16 + NVME 4.0x4 to the CPU and don't affect each other. Also, it says DMI x8 between CPU and chipset. Maybe this is how it frees up 4 PCIe lanes for the independent NVME slot?
What do you think is faster for the games data installation ? An 2TB M.2 drive encrypted with Bitlocker that is connected directly to the CPU with its x4 lane (as C: main drive). Or the games data on a second 2TB M.2 drive that is not bitlocker encrypted and not connected directly to the CPU with the lane, but via x4 to the chipset ?
Perfect timing. I'm looking for new mobo right now =D
long story short, mainstream platforms have insufficient pcie lanes for common uses. with all current mainstream platforms, you get 3 pcie slots and up to 3 m.2 slots. typically a 16x gpu is going to be in the top pcie slot. if you put a card in the second pcie slot it will half the bandwidth to the first (gpu) pcie slot to 8x. this is UNACCEPTABLE, particularly now that we have cards with good memory bandwidth. the third pcie slot is a 4x slot (which can sometimes look like an 8x or 16x slot but it's electrically only 4 lanes). this is typically shared with the second m.2 slot (at least it is on amd platforms) this means if you have a high bandwidth m.2 drive slotted in the second m.2 slot, it will have to share bandwidth with whatever is in that 3rd pcie slot. this too is unacceptable because that could very well be a multi 4k capture card, or another m.2 ssd on an adapter pcie card. the top slot (at least on amd boards) is direct cpu connected in every case i've seen, the THIRD m.2 slot is typically connected through the chipset which means it has to contend with your onboard 10g nic, your audio solution, your onboard usb3.2/4, etc. etc. which can slow things down quite a bit.
tl;dr: intel and amd need to start giving us more pcie lanes on these platforms. 64 or so should do it, that should at least give us 3 real 16x pcie slots, 3 m.2 slots that aren't switched, and a dedicated pcie 4x to onboard dual 10g networking so it doesn't slow anything down. there are lots of people like myself that are peeved that they'd have the audacity to charge us something like another THOUSAND dollars just to get reasonable numbers of pcie lanes and a couple extra memory channels.
Wondering why we cant have a Z790 gaming board with 3 PCIE lanes.
Like GPU. But i want to add a Capture and Sound Card.
Why when we pay 500 to 1000 for the motherboard do we have to compromise on Whats parts we can add to our pc.
There are several Z790 gaming boards that have 3 full length PCIe slots, though obviously they're not all x16 due to the platform not having enough lanes. Z790 Aorus Master and Tachyon, MSI Z790 MEG Ace and Asus ROG Maximus Hero (not the newer Dark) come to mind immediately.
Now, if you're asking why the mainstream platforms don't have all those PCIe lanes? Well, AMD and Intel want you to buy their HEDT or workstation platforms (=more $$$ for them) if you want more bandwidth.
I have this Riptide motherboard, rtx 4080 and ssd Samsung 990 PRO. My system crashing on default bios(updated). when i set PCIE1 to Gen3 pc can start but crash. When i set DMI to Gen 3 stress cache failed. Only if set PCIE1 to Gen 3 and DMI to Gen 2 system is stable but ssd are slow. on gpu a have also updated Vbios. Im something missing in bios or its just broken mobo or gpu? I know that on igpu its working without problems and my 4080 working on old pc
Great video! I've been on the hunt for the perfect laptop for video editing, and your insights were incredibly helpful. Initially, I was eyeing the Asus Studiobook 16, but I share your concerns about the 4070. After some additional research, I considered the Razer Blade 16 (4090), but the reliability issues gave me second thoughts.
Do you have any other recommendations for a top-tier video editing laptop? I'm looking for a powerhouse with solid reliability and performance. Your expertise is much appreciated!
Thanks again for the awesome content!
If you are spending that kind of money for a Mobile Workstation. Take a look at Lenovo ThinkPad P16 Gen 2. You can spec it out with a 13th gen Core i7/i9, up to 128GB of RAM with or without ECC, dual M.2 Gen4, RTX 5000 Ada 16GB (RTX 4090 mobile). You can also choose a lower en RTX 4000 Ada 12GB(4080 mobile) or a RTX 3500 ada 12GB (cut down RTX 4070 desktop).
@@tonyjohansson8395Thanks
So i have a question... im with the z790 rog maximus hero board.
im running all m.2 slots and have a gpu in first pci.
if i plugg a 2nd gpu in the slot 3 pci.. no power and no signal cable what will happen?
will my 1 gpu lose bandwith or will my system crash becous no power to gpu? and will my m.2 drives still work?
My top nvme only runs at gen 4 X1 speed not x 4 ryzen 7 3700x b550 is it a lane problem or is it a broken mobo
“Great videos, but context can be spotty. Smoothness suffers due to connectives and unavailable components. Articulation is solid, but arguments sometimes lack clarity.” 🎥👍
So if you're using the m.2 slot at the top of the gpu, there's no lane cut as long as it's a gen 4? So how about using the pcie slots below the top pcie slot? Will it cut the main to half if for example we add an m.2 there?
That’s what i need to know, i think it will be fine if it’s a Gen 4, i dunno I’m so bad at PCI-E Lanes lol. Just look it up in ur mb manual.
@@bogdan12275 if I understand it correctly, the 13th gen in particular, has has up to 1x pcie gen5 x16 and 1x pcie gen4 x4. So a 4th gen m.2 installed in the cpu chipset will not cut down the gpu lane. But if you use the extra pcie slots at the same time, I have no idea either
I think that's a good way of looking at it, but always double check the manual! :)
Dude, read the manual for clarification, it's on the web! For free!
Intel 12th gen, introduced x16 Gen 5 + x4 Gen 4.
Some motherboard, the top most (the closest to the CPU) wired it to Gen 5 lanes, while other Gen 4.
AMD on the other hand, doesn't separate. Meaning, if you installed PCIE 4.0 devices, your entire CPU's PCIE will run at Gen 4 speed.
If you lose 8/16 PCI-E 5.0 lanes and use a PCI-E 4.0 GPU does it still get the 16 PCI-E 4.0 lanes? 5.0 is twice the bandwidth of 4.0 am I right? Or does it just cut the lanes no matter the gen?
How that WS motherboard + Threadripper + 1x 4090 + PCIe Gen 5 x4 m.2 would perform against 14900K or 7800X3D gaming configs?
I have a new ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Dark Hero (WiFi 7) LGA 1700, and I buy also a RTX 4090 and 1 Crucial T700 2TB Gen5 NVMe M.2 SSD where I can place the M2 to be same speed and don't loose and PCI lane?
You can’t. I am building a similar setup with that board now, went with gen 4 ssd’s populating m.2 socket 2 & 3, the dark hero board both m2 socket 1 & 2 route through the cpu, but only m2 socket 1 is capable of gen 5, which will cut your 4090 to gen 4 x8
I don’t “think” you can run a gen 5 SSD anywhere but m2 socket 1.
Love to hear others thoughts
My msi z790 tomahawk I have all 4 pcie slots filled with 4 gen 4 drives and 2 sata drives. My 4090 runs at full speeds. My z490 tomahawk has both nmve slots filled and 4 sata drives it's only a pcie gen 3 "10th gen" and my 3080ti runs at full gen 3 speeds "3080ti is gen 4 but again 10th gen..." I've never had an issue with populating nvme slots and loosing lanes. Even on my old z170 and 6700k build.
Can you do this video but for audio production?
This is my main issue for years, can't afford a threadripper, but the difference in # of PCIe Lanes between Threadripper and Ryzen is just ridiculous.
Every gen upgrade AMD is adding 4 miserable lanes to the Ryzen line.... People need at least 2 full PCIe 16x and a 3erd at least 8x. Not including m.2 of course.
Every system I built I have to choose between, fast network cards or storage HBA, and that always comes with a sacrifice of my GPU PCIe bandwidth by HALF which is around 5-10% perfornmace....
Nobody needs 2x16 slots.
Gaming. Sli/xfire is dead
Productivity no card out there saturates pcie 4.0 8x let alone 16x
It’s not super critical for me as a photographer, but I was upset when I noticed that myASUS rogue maximus cut down, bandwidth or disabled I think two of my data ports Or cut their bandwidth down if I installed a second nvme drive. Especially since all my SATA ports are populated with drives. .
I wonder if it’s worthwhile to buy a creator motherboard instead of a gaming one, and if it also provides additional headroom between upgrade periods because of all the additional slots.
Thanks for excellent video
Could I put my Gpu on the bottom slot if both pci are x16
TY. Always found this topic super confusing.
I agree to some extent BUT doesn't the connection between CPU and GPU separate on x8 DMI 4.0 which if I read it right is a different lane to PCIe 4.0
Yes the Intel 1700 platform has x8 DMI 4.0, which is equivalent to x8 PCIe 4.0. That's double what the AM5 platform provides, and makes the Intel platform better on the I/O side, because reducing the chipset bottleneck is much more valuable.
@@dismuter_yt My thinking was that my Gigabyte Z790 MB has 5 NVME PCIe drives installed with boot drive in top most CPU slot separate from the other 4 (one in the PCIe 4.0 slot on an adapter) in raid 5. Thus the x8 DMI 4.0 is separate to any of the PCIe channels. as it works fine. The CPU PCIe lanes are 16 at PCIe 5.0 (GPU) and an additional PCIe 4.0 x 4 (top slot).
@theTechNotice please help i have a Aorus x670E Pro X motherboard , 7800 x3d ,RTx 4080 GPU and at the moment I have 2- 4th gen m.2 nvme cards , the board has 2 cpu gen5 m.2 slots and 2 chipset m.2 slots on the board . im so confused as to how to install the m.2 slots after watching this video . one is my Os the other is file storage . please help , ignorance was bliss now this is eating away at me lol
I have b650 Aorus Elite AX with Ryzen 7 7700. This MoBo has x3 m.2 slots. Question: can I fill ALL x3 m.2 slots with three SSDs and have all of them at x4 PCIe 4.0 lanes? What will happen to my GPU in this case? Will it still have x16 PCIe lanes?
I checked the specification for the motherboard on Gigabyte's website, and found no information regarding decreased speed of the x16 slot when all m.2 slots are in use.
So...I have an Asus ROG Strix Z790H MB with a 13700K. I installed my M.2 OS drive into the top slot because it had a better heatsink. I have a 4060 ti in the slot below. Am I losing any bandwidth to my GPU and if so, which slot should I use? Thanks.
The 4060ti only runs on x8, so it won't be affected.
Cool...thanks.@@OutLanderUSN
THANK YOU MAN . 👍👍👍
Hey, that’s one of Melbourne’s tunnels with the cars in it. Crazy odds of it being footage from my neck of the woods 😎
And if its a gen 5 m.2 in the top slot of an intel board?
Hello, I have been trying to understand something and still very confused:
My motherboard is an MSI Mag Z790, it has NO gen 5 slots for nvme drives, only gen 4. I already have an nvme installed on slot 1 which is not interfering at all with the graphics card bandwidth according to hardware info 64
My question is this: If I install more drives on the remaining (chipset) nvme slots (all gen 4) will that make me lose graphics card bandwidth?
EDIT: I watched the video again a second time... you do say that if all slots are gen 4 you don't lose any bandwidth on anything (this is important to me because I use PC for work)
Thanks!
Wait, the ASUS sage board has no PCIE gen 5 for thye GFX card either, is what you meant? Because my board has the one gen 5 slot for the graphics card
Need help: Just got a 4080 Super and it is only running x8, My mobo is Z690-E Wifi I have 1 M.2, It is in slot M.2_2. My 3080 was in the exact same spot and was running at 16x... I'm really lost here. GPUZ is showing PCIe x16 4.0 @ x8 4.0.
i have an Asus TUF b550 chipset motherboard and it has 2x m.2 slots and 6 sata slots. When i plug an M.2 SSD into the second slot it disables 2 of the sata ports and uses that to run the second m.2 slot. So i can have 2x M.2 + 4 Sata drives or 1x M.2 + 6 Sata drives. Also since the second m.2 slot uses bandwidth of 2 Sata ports it limits the second m.2 SSD to 1.5GB/s speed (single Sata 3 is 6gbps so 12gbps = 1,5GB/s).
I have MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk DDR5 with I9 13900K (20 pci lanes). So i should be good with M.2 in top slot? 16 for graphics and 4 for M.2
that's not how pci lanes work. just read the frickin manual, it has a block diagram that shows you where every single of the cpu's pci lanes goes
@@protator Top slot goes to CPU, the 3 other slots go via chipset. And since i have 20 lanes CPU i don't lose any GPU lanes. Tried and tested with GPUz and HWinfo
@@meindertz9602You still have it backwards, but 'Good for you', I guess?
@@protator You're right, there is a switch between the pci-e slot and the m.2 top slot, and they are both gen 5.0. I just looked 13 gen i9 supports gen 5.0 and 4.0 so i should be good, i hope. I'm just going to try and see how it goes. I have a rtx 4080 super, so second slot is not an option. It's just too hot. (Edit: just found the diagram, only top slot goes directly to cpu, the other 3 slots go via chipset)
Isn’t Intel 20 lanes plus the dmi lanes to the chipset?
Therefore 16x5.0 for GPU and 4x4.0 for the first m.2 which is always dedicated…
Everything else comes from the chipset ?
Yes. The video is very misleading. There is no reduction in video card PCIe when using the first M.2 slot.
Thanks - very useful
Thank you! 🙂
Some motherboards lose SATA ports if extra M2 slots are used. It is not only a reduction in lanes for the graphics card slot that can be lost
True!
18:14 Very bold statement. I have the same card (Hyper M.2 X16 gen 4) and it doesn't have a PLX chip on it. It means that if you wanna use the 4 M.2 slots on the boards, you have to bifurcate the given PCI-E X16 to 4x4.
Are you sure that the motherboard supports bifurcation for EVERY X16 slot? Because they are usually supporting it only on the first X16 slot but not the other ones, even if those lanes are also connected to the CPU and not the chipset.
Slots connected to the chipset are most probably not supporting PCI-E bifurcation at all.
I wanna play Sims 3 on the threadripper. Will I get 60fps?
🤦
You are not the troll we wanted but the troll we needed
been an intel fanboy for awhile, but this information is making me reconsider my next build. seems like amd/ryzen is the winner. whats the point in buying an intel platform now?
AMD is not the winner. Intel provides 16 lanes to the video card and 4 lanes to the M.2.
I have a MSI Pro Z790-P wifi ddr 4 with a 13700k. I can not get decent speed out of my top pci-e slot.
I changed the nvme drive to a lower slot and when I use the top pci-e slot with a rtx 3060ti, it gpu mines at half the rate it should. The other 2 pci-e slots give me full performance. I've tried setting multiple bios pci-e settings and nothing changes. I am stumped.
Disable all powermanagement for pcie in the bios. A lot of modern systems like the Z790 are build around energy reduction.
with the default pcie powermanagement on all the pcie slots will downclock themselves to save power. Ive had my 990 pro set all the way back to pcie gen2 x4 just to save power.
same goes for the gpu, it went all the way back to gen 2 speeds bottlenecking everything.... but it almost runs on a potato battery xD
Note that a lot of motherboards for the AM5 socket and currently AMD Ryzen 7000 processors doesn't support PCIe 5.0 for the x16 slot for GPU or the first M.2 slot. Others support one M.2 at PCIe 5.0 but still only PCIe 4.0 for the x16 slot for GPU.
Finally there are cards that support up to PCIe 5.0 for both the first M.2 and the PCIe x16 slot for the GPU.
Note that this is present in both B650 motherboards and X670 motherboards. So check the documentation so you know what the capabilities of the motherboard is.
The PCIe x16 only supporting up to 4.0 is today no big deal as currently there aren't any graphic cards that support PCIe 5.0. It might actually matter in a year or so when new graphics cards are released. But even then I doubt it will be a dramatic difference between running those cards at PCIe 4.0 or 5.0.
The limit on the M.2 slot is however more real as there are very high performance M.2 drives that support PCIe 5.0. However we're talking about 7GB/s or 15GB/s, and while this sounds drastic it's not really something you are likely to feel the difference of in real life. Besides the maximum transfer rate tends to be limited in span on the fastest drives. Once you've filled the buffer on the drive the write speed will go down a lot. PCIe 5.0 drives also tend to use more energy and run a lot hotter than the PCIe 4.0 drives.
What I'm trying to say is that there are speed limitations on the PCIe slots and the first M.2 slot on a lot of motherboards. And yet that doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad.
But check the specs before you buy so you aren't surprised when PCIe is limited to 4.0 if you upgrade in the future.
With NVME drives getting cheaper, drive expansions is ideal for AM5 X670 chipset. I have a chugging Z170X motherboard but ok with me as I can directly install two NVME drives plus two SATA drives. The 4 sata ports were disabled when using the second NVME drive but ok with me.
One of the reasons why I still like my cheap X99 build (X99TF motherboard) with the XEON E5-2696v3 (18core/36 thread; 3.8Ghz turboboost). FORTY (40) PCIE lanes (albeit Gen 3)!
I also like its FOUR(4) CHANNEL MEMORY and ability to support either DDR3 or DDR4 (limited to 2133Mhz, but in four channel)! Sure, it's a decade old processor. But at only $45, it can still deliver a CB R23 multi score of 14,050 pts.
Yes...the IPC isn't great...and its efficiency cannot compare with modern CPU architecture. But it gets the job done well and it runs cool on air...and never exceeds 53C at 20C ambient.
For gaming, it will typically run ~3.7 Ghz all core (turbo unlocked). On full stress loads, the 145W TDP becomes its hard limit and it will revert to 2.8Ghz all core.
Mine is well matched with the venerable RTX 2080Ti.
This is why researching your Board is probably the most important thing you can do when in the design phase. FYI, this has been a thing since at least the existence of PCI in general (AFAIK).
On some Intel processors, the difference needs a better camera, I counted 5-10 more connections on the 2 ghz core 2 duo 667, 2 mb cache laptop cpu, compared to the pentium 2.2, 800 mhz fsb, 1 mb cache.
My asus wrx80e wifi ii can not see and select m.2 raids 3xm.2 raid or 4xm.2 raid on raid card and can not create a boot drive. 3 weeks long ASUS try to find what is the problem. If anyone knows how to make m.2 raid bootable to install Windows, please advise me. Thanks
Having an issue folks. Running a proart z790, 13900 i9, 3090 rtx, have a 500 m.2 in slot 1, went to expand slot 2 with a 2 tb black ssd and it shows up and formats, I started copying my unreal engine stuff and it just drops off the system, won't even show up in disk manager, reboot and it will do the same thing when I stay copying files. Took the drive back for a replacement thinking the drive was faulty and the replacement is doing the same thing. Had anyone had issues like this?
great info. very good description
If one installs 2 M.2 storage (same exact manufacturer and size) on the MOBO, how do we know which one to install the OS on? Is one better than the other? Mobo - MSI Mag Tomahawk Wifi DDR5.
The easiest way to get around that is to install one drive, install windows, and then install the second drive after. As for which one to install the OS on, that's dependent on which slot has the shortest path to the CPU.
It should show which nvme slots are supplied by the cpu and which are by the pch in the manual.
For Intel boards that have a 5.0 nvme slot, those will drop the gfx card down to 8x. Those boards may also have a cpu connected pci4 nvme slot as well, I'd use this slot instead of the 5.0 slot if the drive doesn't support the gen 5 speed.
@@cartman20000thank you! Here is what I am seeing in the manual.
∙ 4x M.2 slots (Key M)
• M2_1 slot (From CPU)
• Supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4
• Supports 2260/ 2280/ 22110 storage devices
• M2_2 slot (From Z790 chipset)
• Supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4
• Supports 2260/ 2280 storage devices
• M2_3* slot (From Z790 chipset)
• Supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4
• Supports up to SATA 6Gb/s
• Supports 2242/ 2260/ 2280 storage devices
• M2_4 slot (From Z790 chipset)
• Supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4
• Supports 2242/ 2260/ 2280 storage devices
* SATA_1 will be unavailable when installing M.2 SSD in the M2_3 slot.
I am not seeing anywhere in the manual that says the graphics card will be reduced if M.2 is installed in the top slot.
This board MSI Mag Tomahawk Wifi DDR5 does not have a cpu connected pci4 nvme slot other than slot 1. So the question is which is more beneficial having the main hard drive connected directly to cpu and leaving only 8 lanes for gpu; or connecting main hard drive to chipset and having 16 lanes for gpu. Articles I've seen so far seem to indicate a negligible performance difference between 8 lanes and 16 lanes for gpu usage, but I don't really see anything about the latency difference between using chipset or cpu for ssd. Right now I have a rtx3050 so slot 1 for my nvme is for me as 3050 only uses 8 lanes anyway, but I am planning on upgrading in the future.@@cartman20000
That’s how the ROG dark hero is setup
IF ANYBODY CAN SHARE THE LINK WITH THE BIFURCATION PANEL OF THE ASUS PROART Z90 WIFI, PLEASE DO IT, I LIKE ANALIZE BETTER MY MOTHERBOARD, THANKS AGAIN
Pardon my noobishness but how is it possible for four M.2 cards (in the Asus daughterboard) use the full x16 bandwidth for each card? If the slot is x16 and each M.2 fires at full capacity wouldn't they be choked to x4 performance because they're sharing a single slot? Otherwise the slot would have to be x64.
I'm not a builder so this is purely inquisitive.
Each M.2 slot on the daughterboard has 4 dedicated PCIE lanes going to it, and those 4 correspond to 4 in the motherboard slot. If I'm remembering what I read about it a while back correctly. I think you also have to set PCIE bifurcation for the slot in the BIOS, but I could be mistaken about that.
Wen i type here I have a approx a second long delay.???
19:16 The expansion will divide the speed between the used NVMe and there is nothing you or the manufacturer can do about that. The only useful thing is to use the expansion for data storage and not as system driver.
The PLX and PCX chipsets manage the use of all the lanes. Remember, USB, Network, Audio, etc need connections.
If the GPU can't do 5.0x8 cuz no modern gpu support gen 5 yet won't it go down to 4.0x16?
Doesn't quite work like that...
@@theTechNotice Ok thanks.
pcie 4.0 x8 is the same as pcie 3.0 x16 in terms of theoretical bandwidth. im running a 4090 at x8 and it is fine. my board knocks out the m.2_1 because i have to use the bottom pcie x16_2 because i have a watercooled gpu, that won't fit in the first slot.
Also, it is worth checking whether your GPU can use 16 lanes. Some GPUs are wired for x8 and would gain no benefit from a x16 slot over a x8 one.
good info up to the point of pushing AMD and the outragous price tag for a thread ripper system. you can get 9 intel CPUs for the price of one $5000 AMD CPU.
I just wish that more manufacturers would display on their websites if their motherboard supports pcie bifurcation (to x4x4x4x4).
Those proart boards have a big problem. The heats sink on the chipset sticks up too far and prevents pCie cards from properly seating in the second slot making the slot worthless. I have 4 of them and I'm thinking about chucking them all in the trash now.
you'll need to custom watercool and get a GPU block.
For most people it doesn't matter. Just get the biggest ssd you can afford and a good gpu. Plug in, game on.
7:00 When is the gen 5 Wrx80 and gen 5 Threadripper Pro going to come out...I know it's coming...lol.
99.9% of M.2 adapter cards, like the Asus Hyper cards, DO NOT have lane multiplexer chips on them.
Cards that do usually cost $150 and up.
Most mainstream mainboards, unlike a small number of xeon and Threadripper workstation mainboards, DO NOT feature pci bifurcation on all pcie slots
But why is the Asus MB ROG STRIX Z790-E GAMING WIFI II not sharing Lanes with the CPU (for 500E ) and the ROG MAXIMUS Z790 FORMULA witch cost 800€ doe have that limitation of Lanes? I would expect that a Expensive MB is better then a cheeper one!!! That makes me crazy, because the Formula would be good with the VRM liquid cooled. But i can't have that one, becouse i use 5 M2 Drives.
On the Intel platform, the switching on the uppermost M.2 slot exists only if that slot supports PCIe 5.0. The CPU only has 16 PCIe 5.0 lanes, so to get 4 of them for the M.2, it has to downgrade the x16 slot to x8 through switching.
Chances are that the cheaper motherboard doesn't bother with PCIe 5.0 for the M.2, and therefore doesn't need to do any switching.
@@dismuter_yt it means that it only downswitches, if i use the first m2 slot with an gen5 m2?
IVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THE THE M.2 ABOVE GPU SHARES PCIE LANES AND BANDWITH WITH CPU WHICH IS THE FASTES AND BEST W2AY AS IN PERFORMANCE TO USE FOR YOU (OS) ETC AND THE OTHER M.2 SHARES LANES WITH SOUTHBRIDGE CHIPSET DEPENDING ON GEN OF MOBO AND CPU
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY do ASUS not give us the block diagrams?
My new mobo has a diagram that shows 16+4 or 8x2 + 4 . It's important to know that because not all the mobos are cutting the 16 PCIe slot in half while adding a M.2 SSD on the top.
So I have the Asus Z790 Hero Motherboard and I installed a 1TB Samsung 990 M.2 in the top slot, is this correct or not?
I still do not know which the best slot is for the m.2 SSD for the system.
We are going to need liquid cooling for even some gen 5 storage based on fan and huge heatsink for just one m.2 drive i saw recently.