$100,000 Neve Console FAILED in under SIX MONTHS!
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- I worked my whole life to finally be able to afford a legendary Neve console. And here's my experience dealing with its failure. And how it sounds vs Reaper!
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About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
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Remember kids, buying expensive gear doesnt make it better
And if you want to buy good stuff it is going to cost you more though.
😂😂 😂
Damn!
Where have we heard that before? Ahahaha
And not every failure is due to lack of effort. Even the most well engineered cars like konneggseigg have issues once in a while. There's literally no way to make anything tangible prefect
Absolutely nothing is built to last anymore. It’s pathetic really
If I’m spending 100K on a piece of gear, it better outlive my grandkids, never mind myself.
Sadly, it’ll probably last 10-15 at best. Either thru the components failing, or the software connectivity becoming obsolete.
This is why I prefer to work with non-computer stuff (except the Focusrite 18i20) and analog gear, not because I'm a tone snob, but because it can be repaired.
😂 wishful thinking
For $100k - I want the lifespan of an Egyptian pyramid!
Sony was the worst for this, which is why they lost so much market share.
if you buy a neve at Walmart and they ask if you want to add the extended warranty for $3.99 say YES!!
😂😂😂😂😂
Your first mistake.. buying a console based on a… computer. Take it back and get a 100% analog console.
Any tour on the road disagrees. 80% of digital consoles run on embedded windows, and others run on linux. Tours that run analog often have a full spare in the truck because analog consoles still have issues and need constant work.
Absolutely!
@@ddgarage7025 Is glens studio on the road? No? Wtf are you even talking about lmao
The "I'm not angry, just disappointed" dad energy is overwhelming, lol.
My friend once said this was the most devastating thing her dad has ever said. She said that she has thereafter lived her life to make that he would never speak those words again. So never underestimate the power of disappointment.
Did you try turning it off, and then on again?
Or blowing on it?
For $100,000, Neve should be shipping overnight and the swap should be 'plug and play'.
User Error isnt covered
I think the correct response is: "My disappointment is... immeasurable... and my day is ruined."
The longevity question is absolutely key. We now live in a world where built in obsolescence is a design paradigm. For a $30 gizmo that is probably not too bad, but in the $thousands range, it is completely unacceptable.
I feel for you man!
Ikr. I know right. I had a pair of Mackie HR monitors that I have used since the late 90s that finally "died" on me a few months ago. Since I am more hobbyist than serious engineer now, I couldn't justify (to myself or my wife) spending $1500 and up for a set of monitors so I started looking at budget options. And boy, the amount of reviews complaining about a lot of these things failing within a year or two (or barely out of warranty) was frightening. I ended up buying a set of Adam A7Xs and I guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed for a few years.
It's not even designed-in obsolescence from Neve - the consequence of using a commercial operating system is that you're shit out of luck as soon as Microsoft decide it's no longer supported. You don't even get any shelter from that if you use a Mac - Apple's support window is even shorter. And, of course, you can't even update it because the hardware's going to be completely proprietary.
Please tell me nobody's connecting these things to the Internet...
Blame Taiwan - in the late 90's they fucked up some state-sponsored industrial espionage that resulted in virtually every electronic device (since most of it was made in Taiwan at that point) failing after a few months. They stole the formula for low-cost capacitors that were supposed to have a long lifespan and passed it on to all the Taiwanese factories, only the forumula they stole was actually a trap, and was designed to fail after a grace period. As a result, consumer expectations lowered to the point were we now expect electronics to stop working after a year or so, instead of lasting for decades like they did before all this went down.
@despoticmusic I couldn't agree more
@@cynicaloutlook Honestly don't blame Taiwan. Blame the corporate industry for cheap labor exploitation.
Comparatively Korean made components like capacitors & relays of the same era were also notoriously failure prone well into early 2000's products!
I know because I've had to physically replace several.
Ever hear of original Xbox consoles overtime bricking themselves unplugged sitting on a shelf?!
That's why.
Because the shotty Korean capacitors would literally swell, burst, and thus inevitably kill the PCB motherboard.
Another reason why I'd always recommend anyone who's buying a vintage tube amp, or one older than the 2010's?!!
To consider getting a modern capacitor upgrade job done. By a PROFESSIONAL though!!
I once saw some dumbass stick both hands into the back of his Sovtek MIG 50 and get zapped nearly across the FN room!!!
#deathcapacitor
.
Know this: The windows "automatic repair" has NEVER EVER repaired anyone's windows. Ever. The feature is just there to give you false hope.
I work as an IT tech at a UK university. Whenever the automatic repair option comes up on a computer I’m working on, I reach for my USB stick to reinstall Windows
I actually have had it fix an issue. Probably a drive error issue, like fixing MBR or some such. Anything beyond that, I don’t know even what it does.
Agreed, something like Macrium Reflect, Acronis, Paragon, DriveImage XML (The list goes on)
Has saved me many times.
It can fix small faults in the file system and replace missing files. That's about it.
Haha
Spending 100k on products that breakdown is surprisingly common right now
Time to buy a Cybertruck and double the fun.
Space truck, anyone?
Spending 100k... common...
The more bells and whistles a system has, the more possibilities of shit hitting the fan.
Is Harley Benton making consoles, yet?
Give them a few years I'm sure they'll try lol
It would run some form of Linux, as the price wouldn't cover the Windows license fee.
LOL
@@TranscendentBen And would be better for it.
Thomann are selling them, at least.
Glenn's Lament:
"Where it's at
I got two dead computers and a microphone..."
Take me home with my Windsor bones
Do it
That was a good drum break
@@pierreblenderbuss9807too bad we couldn’t get it on tape…
@@joshuaporterfield6774if it had been an analogue mixer and tape it would have been fine….
As neat as the Genesys desks are... There's buying a console, and then there's buying a fly-by-wire nearly completely digitally controlled console that is mostly dead when the computer goes down. This is why I greatly prefer the approach of something like the API 2448 - fully analog board, completely optional traditional moving-faders automation as a small embedded system that also speaks MCU over USB. Their automation is great, and if it does go down, all the primary features of your desk are still working.
I'm surprised a Rupert Neve 5088 wasn't considered either. It's an analog console by the legend and deliberately isn't digital.
@@QuickQuips I'm not sure how many preamps and EQ modules Glen's Genesys has, but the 5088 configured with a comparable channel count, with preamps and EQ on all channels, is potentially in a substantially different price bracket. The 2448 is priced much closer to comparable regardless.
Absolutely. Analog equipment is repairable. I don't buy gear that requires software to work properly. Because eventually it'll be an extremely expensive paperweight
I think the genesis is a great console thing is I don’t live in England. I live here in New York much easier to service my Api love it.
If 1000 bassists buy your bass sim, 1000 bands will sound like they have the same bassist.
That’s like saying if 1000 bassists buy bass strings, 1000 bands will sound like they have a the same bassist.
"I
AM
NOT
ANGRY"
Yeah okay, and I'm the fuckin Pope! I'd be livid 😂
I've noticed that I get angry at the 'small stuff' but if something goes catastrophically to shit, I don't even get mad, I just try to figure out how to fix it and if there's anything I can do. There's like a threshold and past that point I don't even feel anger anymore.
A grievance with Neve is called a "Neve-ance".
👏😺👍🍾🙌
Get out
If we're talking about decades of support, I definitely would not go with Mac OS. Try running a 30 year old piece of software (or even 10 year old!) On a current version of Mac OS... it ain't gonna happen. Say what you will about Windows but it's still possible to run 30+ year old software on Windows 10/11. Try that on an Apple.
From my expirience all windows problems were from user negligence. Just take care of it a bit, make sure everything is compatible, dont stack shit upon shit and thats about it.
The best macs were those intel Mac pros. Those 2000 dual quad cheesegraters I know a number of guys who run those in studios to this day. Heavy and they run like tanks.
Mac OSX rocks for me... I have El Capitan and works like a charm
@@cycomiles4225 Agreed. And I'm confident this one was no different.
Well, that sucks Glenn! Sorry you had an issue with a brand new console. On my Live stream last night, a few folks told me that you mentioned my channel in one of your videos. I have not seen it yet but thanks for the shout out. Would love to chat with you one day! :) - David
I can't believe it's not Linux-based.
With the hell that JACK, Pulse, and Linux audio in general are? I absolutely totally can believe they didn't want to touch Linux lol
It should be cross compatible eith Linux, windows and Mac
What does it help if it is maybe a hardware prob 😂?
@@Sylkis89 wdym? JACK is amazing
@@Sylkis89 I mean, I get that but it's still less of a headache than...most everything else with Windows.
That's a hardware issue and not a Windows issue. Windows is more than capable of running audio reliably.
Bingo!!!
True, but absolutely nothing is built to last anymore…. It’s pathetic really
Windows is much harder to troubleshoot then mac in my experience.
Yeah, I've been on Windows since 95. I use Windows not only for my audio recording but also use it for SolidWorks, Cinema 4D, blender and Maya. I can't tell you the last time I saw a blue screen of death. Mac might be easier if you don't want to learn how to use a computer.
One of the reasons they don’t use Windows in Russia is too many people disappear opening.
Now you have a giant table you can't even put a coffee on.
For everyone saying it's a hardware issue...it's _incredibly_ rare for previously-working hardware to just fail (EDIT: I mean after six months of working perfectly, and after being burn-in tested on leaving a low-volume manufacturer). It's far more likely file corruption due to the heavy shutdown, and Windows really doesn't deal with that very well.
Embedded systems like this should be shipped with a factory disk image on a second drive, so it can be restored to factory settings at any time. Even better, they should come with the capacity for the customer to create and store their own (configured) image at any time. With the prices Neve charge for their desks, it would be a negligible additional cost, and would actually save them money in support costs, for the sake of a bit of development time and £200 on a second NVMe drive (it doesn't even need to be an expensive one, a cheap QLC drive would do the job - doesn't need buckets of endurance, since writes would be _very_ rare).
It would also save them from serious reputational damage in terms of the lack of business continuity experienced by their customers.
That's just not true. Yes, the likelihood of hardware failure goes down after a couple of months, but most hardware that fails, fails within weeks and months of being first used, not seconds. Hell, I've had a GPU die two years into use before, without OC or any shenanigans like that. A friend currently struggles with a faulty GPU, which is about 1 year old.
Infant mortality of hardware can easily range within months of first being used, and saying "it's incredibly rare" is just false. Especially with modern production, where devices and electronics are tested enough to relatively safely rule out that it will be broken upon unboxing. But of course you can't see into the future and tell if a tiny little part on the device is gonna fail 6 months down the line.
For sure Glenn is aware of UPS
Kontron uses EMMC in their default devices, and has everything soldered in (as most tablets have,) That is not OK for something like a console controller. It should have an off the shelf ITX board for embedded systems with changeable ram/storage and use eDP to drive the display.
It's not even a LITTLE bit true that hardware failure is rare. Where are you getting that from? Hardware failures after several months are fairly common, if not even expected. That's why having backups and restore points for job-crucial components is as critical as it is.
@@EivindFalken He's running a UPS a lot better than you can buy at Staples, and a power conditioner unit, for sure.
Has the Neve now become the Gibson of consoles? All kidding aside, I work in IT and have seen things fail right out of the box. I always joke that the sweat shop kids overseas had a bad day when those particular components were manufactured.
Haha I have similar experiences, very expensive IT equipment failing fight after install. Linux, Windows based, proprietary OS I've seen it all.
Maybe Fender. There's a G&L equivalent with Rupert Neve Designs.
Any inkling of a faint desire to own a console down the line totally evaporated for me upon watching this. Hope it gets resolved for you, thanks for making this video and the transparency and vulnerability in it!
Thanks for this episode Glenn!!!
I'm an IT manager and I manage 100 windows based computers... I rarely encounter failures with windows... but I also harden the systems and have management software in place to ensure daily operation. I am not sure how the neve operates but powering the computer on and off is not something I personally recommend. Thank you for validating the IT profession... You go to a mechanic when your car is broken... you go to the doctor when you are sick... Hire an IT professional to ensure your computer equipment is operating at peak performance. You have taught us so much about recording... and you probably have decent computer knowledge but no man is an island...
This is kind of an outdated perspective. I mean, obviously I'm not going to be doing surgery, but I also don't go to a doctor for every little sniffle. The specialist society is on its way out, and I think this is something we should encourage.
Specialization is how we ended up with lawyers...
@@gunslingersymphony5015 I'd be interested to know what you do for a living... your whole statement is a huge contradiction. Doctors and lawyers are very specialized education. I've been in the IT world for 29 years and can tell you there are very very specialized fields/certifications. As a matter of fact, just because I am an IT manager doesn't mean that I don't hire engineers to do the heavy lifting on projects if I don't have suitable skills to accomplish the task.
@@RobertModica Doctors are specialists. Law is a specialization that only exists because of itself, to the detriment of everyone who is expected to follow it.
Specialization is something to be dealt with out of necessity, not to be maintained as standard practice. One of the greatest advancements we've ever made has been to collect our knowledge and share it publicly. I've learned more from the internet than any school/university, and-apart from the basics that I had down after elementary school-it's been significantly more useful, overall. As far as what I do for a living, I'm a millwright, and I'm currently working on getting into things like web development and cybersec. As much as I love risking my life every time I go to work, AND having to be able to do everyone else's job as well as everything mechanical, AND having to make some engineer's pipe dream actually work in the real world, I really want to experience this whole "work-from-home" thing I keep hearing about.
Also, I'm sorry; I don't see how my previous statement was a contradiction.
@@RobertModica I should add that I respect your position, and don't believe that specialization is, as of yet, outdated. Rather, I believe that being well-rounded should be encouraged.
@@RobertModica I'd also add that I had a nice long response before that which wasn't posted. I'm try to reorganize and retype my thoughts at a later time.
Why do you not have a bootable image stored for this eventuality?
sometimes i wish i had a console, but then i remember how often the maintenance guys were working on the ones in the berklee studios. seemed like one of them was down every few weeks
ofc it was 2017-9 and the digital consoles still ran on windows xp lol
if the audio industry properly supported linux, this story would be VERY different
Harrison Mixbus.
@@vigilantestylez i personally use reaper, lsp plugins, airwindows, as well as some plugins by u-he. i also know that bitwig, renoise, and some others have linux versions. sadly, not enough for there to be an user base that is "viable" for companies :(
Yes, then reason his computer crashed would be lib update/dependency Hell.
I like how insane you are.
@@jdc6681 developers could customize and stay with what is stable. and then not update unless it is necessary
Failed computer was probably due to manufacturing issue rather than the operating system. I'm running a Windows machine that has gone non-stop for 7 years without a single fault or failure.
This kind of form factor for a device is designed to exist in another era. Computers didn't exist or were much more serviceable, studios had resident electronics technicians who worked full time on maintenance, service manuals and individual parts were much more accessible without any of this corporate BS. As amazing as they are, these consoles are pretty much unfeasible to own and use professionally and dependably today.
Everytime I think I want a console, I remind myself of all the times I sat around waiting for the studio techs to fix them when I was working in different studios. My perspective comes from a hobbyist mindset though. I am not doing this for a living anymore.
Glenn, I hope you get it all taken care of, and can get back to your normal work flow with ZERO issues in the future.
why do you even need one? Just get one of those API lunchboxes and use channel strips. Should have the same effect..
As a systems administrator who supports a Windows based environment of 20k devices across almost every enterprise device manufacturer available, you had a hardware failure not a software failure.
$100,000 for a software based appliance is craaaazy 😔💀
Welcome to the world of CNC machining.
For me it's completely opposite. Windows runs flawless, and Mac well let's just say I want to throw my mac out the window.
Is your windows pc attached to a 50k console?
@@Durkhead What difference does that make? Windows doesn't get less reliable if it has to work on more information, unless were talking about something like 400 simultaneous USB connections heh
@@Homanjer the difference is that looked like a pos windows tablet trying to run a 50k worth of faders and converters
@@Durkhead If the hardware sucks, that's not Windows fault. Apple always charge a premium for the same, or very similar, hardware.
I know people absolutely love to shit on Windows, but most issues like this are caused by hardware, not software. You could basically say that's what actually getting a blue screen is essentially telling you - you have a hardware issue.
Not had a blue screen in like 7 years lol or when Windows Vista was a thing...
Improper shutdowns-restarts could also eff-up the boot sectors and the FS
I disagree. Most of the times these BSODs are software related. Windows is just not a reliable OS..
By far the most common reason you'll *ever* see a blue screen on a PC (as rare as they are) is with a failing or incompatible/misconfigured HW or its badly written/buggy driver. Speaking as a PC tech with now several decades of experience if it means anything.
But, granted, the second most common reason would probably be a clueless user who thinks they know best that abuses the hell of their system for years on end and then proceeds to whine in every internet thread about how horrible and unreliable Windows are.
But, I mean, there's plenty of those in every field, as this channel tends to prove so frequently...
I have never had an issue with windows OS, just dont be a moron and update it once in a while lol
Its a very reliable OS, as long as you are not a moron.
Sitting here writing this on my 12+ year old Windows PC that has been used very very much an hard and where not one part has been replaced except for a harddrive (not system drive)that i took from my previous computer which already had a number of years on it, the system drive is still the 12+ year old Samsung SSD. Also the previous computer from 2005 also runs fine with all its original parts including harddrive. This is of course as anecdotal as anyones experience, but in my experience i havent really had any big computer problems since i got windows 7 and now on windows 10 i have never even reinstalled it, its been extremely stable. In the windows XP days it was way more common with problems, i had to ghost the computer since sometimes viruses were impossible to remove and also other problems, i say that as someone that loved XP.
My only worry regarding their customers support is what's the likelihood a regular guy and not someone with a huge CZcams channel will get the same level of support?
Windows is okay guys.
Cheaping out on the pc hardware is not.
Oh, by the way. Win10 support is supposed to be dropped in Autumn next year😅
Only the mainstream version. The IoT LTSC version (which I suppose is the version running in this console - or at least it should be) will be supported until 2032.
Yes, They said that Windows 10 is the final version of Windows and it's not.😂 Have to replace a laptop that is perfectly fine for simple tasks... Or instal Chrome OS or Linux.
@@RoderikvanReekum why? I plan to rock my "music" PC way past the official support date. At least now
@@jonessperandio plenty of time to buy new $100k console 🤣
@@kennethdarlingtonIf it is not connected to the Internet that is fine but a connected PC without (update) support will become a security risk and it's not recommended. It would be fine if Windows 11 would support older hardware.
The Neve kick and snare sound smoother.
Yeah, it isn't like Apple ever stopped supporting their own tech.
The automatic cut on that mic has made a few bad cuts, but over all, it's pretty impressive.
I live ten miles from the office, give me a shout if there is anything I can do, sound tech Paul at your service
That being Burnley!
That’s why I like API with automation.
It's so rough to see when I've followed your channel for so many years, seen how much it's grown and the tremendous amount of work you've put in too to get to this desk!!!
Hello, IT guy checking in. Supporting lab equipment with in-built computers is its own special flavor of IT hell, and I simply can't fathom buying a console with an integrated computer that isn't a standard form factor. We have so many pieces of kit that we have to air-gap from other computers cause they have an OS we can't update, plus just finding ways to keep old stuff going if/when the computer that runs the gear fails is miserable.
If you're buying high-end gear with a computer built in, the manufacturer almost certainly expects you to come to them for paid support down the road, or at least be replacing it on a pretty regular interval.
Windows is okay. I've certainly had less problems with Windows at work than I have with Macs, and tons less problems with Windows users whinging about things...That seems to be all Mac users want to do. :(
The Neve definitely sounded louder and punchier which is great for metal. But either way, the average listener probably won't care. They both hit hard and are mixed well.
This is when you rethink the benefits of analog
Broke: Going analog for the sound quality
Woke: Going analog because every OS is garbage now
We had a Neve at audio engineering school and it was never NOT broken...;) I feel you!!!
The phased flipped comparisons were quite interesting, really confirmed that I wasn't just imagining hearing more in the neve mixes.
Windows is a perfectly fine OS, comes in an embedded version which is hopefully what Neve have used. I've been stable over 3 systems and 20 years. I think the strengths of MacOS are Core Audio, interface linking, AVB support built in and a (hopefully) stable hardware platform (though there have been issues in that department with some Macs over the years). There used to be other reasons, like needing 3rd party antivirus and/or to stay offline on Windows, and drivers for graphics cards and the like messing with audio performance and causing clicks and dropouts, but that's so 2010.
Cut out the OS wars stuff Glen. The fact that you couldn't recover Windows indicates a hardware issue anyway.
But I do hope you get the issue sorted and that Neve keep working on the platform until it's rock solid.
SSL next time, Glen. New Neve ain’t old Neve.
Thanks for the blind test. Those are always fun and the reveal teaches me something.
I’ve found that different DAWs can yield different sounding results because of the differences in the algorithms used to create eq, compressors, etc…
I took a song that I mixed on my AW4416 and then mixed it in Reaper using the Reaper equivalent plugins, and set them to the same settings as I got from my AW4416. Definite difference in sound.
Have you considered the Rupert Neve Designs 5088 or the tried and true AMS Neve 88RS? Also, 11:43…holy shit those transients really make the entire song jump out at you.
The mixes are certainly different. A justifiable difference for what you paid for the Neve, not to say the Reaper ones were bad at all. I have a thought though- with the vast improvements of digital audio tech, will it eventually be able to replicate analogue fully? I'm under the impression that it may, but there's one problem everyone is overlooking.. how the digital recreations of analogue gear produce more of a square wave harmonic distortion. Is it a deal-breaker? I don't think so, but I believe it can cause a bit of sterile dissociation. The average listener would never be able to tell the difference, but their listening interest would be stunted, as it is these days proven by search engine charts. I could be dead wrong about some of this, but I think the fall of music has a lot to do with the lesser-organic processes of its creation. Once that can be fully incorporated digitally, we may have a rise in interest again across the board.
In the comparison section the neve seems to be more transient overall which does sound better to my ears. It seemingly gives that life and bounciness to the different elements in the mix
Hope you get back on track Glenn. Thanks for your insights into music stuff
The 88RS runs on Windows XP. I've played pinball on them.
Hahaha my studio I work with also uses the 88rs. Broke down often and a tech guy coming over pulling channel strips, replacing parts on the boards. Then they had to leave it on 24/7 cus shutting it down when studio isn't being used cause it to break. Racking up $5k per month on electric bills since the machine room also has to be air conditioned 24/7 everyday through the year. It's cool to look and take pictures with looking like a big shot. But for home studios not recommended.
Yeah there are a couple of them where I work. There is always work being done on them, it's a testament to our techs that they're up and running 99% of the time.
Have Automatic repair ever repaired any pc ever??? I never saw Windows self diagnosing tool fixing any problem ever 😅
windows self diagnosing is equivelent to the lil engine that could "i think i can i think i can "
Man, is that is a bummer? that piece of equipment has been impressive. love the videos. rock on
Both are fine, but I really think the neve is bigger warmer and has a less harsh mid bite. I like it better.
Shit, that sucks.
Is bricking a super expensive mixing system by turning off the power too fast the producer equivalent of a les Paul neck break because you knocked it over?
Can immediately tell there’s a density/weight and a levelling off of the transients in the neve. The digital mixes were still good, but a definite 5-10% increase in polish on the neve
Instead of auto repair, select the option with an admin command prompt. Then run 'sfc /scannow' (no quotes obv). When that is done, run 'DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth' If that doesn't work, select 'restore my pc' but pick the option that says 'keep my files'. That'll fix Win without destroying your existing files. I've made a healthy living fixing Windows machines. I never get to work on Macs as they're usually phased out with no chance of updates by the time someone brings me one.
This type of issue is utterly unacceptable for this type of platform.
I wonder to what extent this could have been identified earlier. Glenn is pretty admittedly not a PC power user. There are a lot of things you can do to identify that you are on the edge of a failure before it happens. But it requires a bit of legwork either in going about learning such tools or in using them.
I think that if you are paying over 100.000 you should not have to put any "leg work" to notice details that alerts you about this kind of stuff
Other than that I think you're absolutely correct!
Yall do realize that old analog neves and ssls and apis need constant repairs too right?
@@potestoniko
I fully agree. You shouldn’t have to do anything when you get a product like this. However, just because Neve should have good diagnostic tools built-in that are easy to use, doesn’t mean you can’t be proactive.
@@nugznmugz
Yes
They generally do sound different. But the different mixes to me were just that, different. The Neve mixes to me were not better or worse than the ITB mixes. They were just different
Definitely a huge bummer man. Really sorry that happened. Fear of computer failure is one of the reasons I opted for console that didn’t have a computer built into it. I hope they get you sorted really soon.
Bootable usb with an iso of windows setup and it's fixed in 30 minutes. When you have a $100,000 Windows computer it is a must to always have one on hand.
So it's a $100k, Windows-based console. I'm shocked, shocked to hear it bricked itself without warning.
I just migrated my whole studio setup to Linux. Surprisingly, most of my stuff worked without tinkering. Was worth the effort.
I want to do this very same thing. Would you be willing to share what plugins worked fine and which didn't?
What DAW are you using in Linux? And do the plugins integrate as smoothly with Linux as they do with Windows? I’m a big believer in Linux for everyday computing but I’m still windows based in my music applications.
Brother, I was listening to the mixes while I was putting a frame together so I wasn't even watching just listening. I'm listening through some killer Yamaha YST Advanced speakers with a nice subwoofer. I really couldn't tell the difference to be totally honest. Both mixes sounded phenomenal. There was some ever so slight differences I would notice from time to time, especially on the guitars but other than that, chef's kiss!
WARNING - Glen - Presonus has garbage support! We bought a NEW 16.4.2 console early on. Nothing but glitches and issues after 3 months of home studio use, it became inoperable. Support would not FIX or warranty ANYTHING…. The mom and pop store where we bought ours closed soon after and we were left with a $3500 paperweight.
I will NEVER “EVER” buy another Presonus product ever again. Even with fender as the new owner, that company needs to fold. Or just call everything Fender from now on… Fender won’t do that because they know the products are garbage too, so they don’t want their name on it either!!!!!!
You are all forewarned. It’s Chinese junk. Just DON’T! Save you money. Live and learn!
Interesting. I’ve bought and used presonus for years now, starting with my first audio interface, and I’m now using a Mobile 192 with their hardware control surface. Never had a single problem with Presonus hardware and the software has some incredible features, Studio One is a mind blowing DAW, most ProTools users who give it a real try wind up switching to S1. I’ve always been interested in their 16.4.2 desks, never heard anything bad about them before. Sorry you had a bad experience, guess I’ll have to do some more homework before pulling that trigger.
Audio Engineer and IT Guy here: Neve know that the Support period of a Windows Version is 18 Months.
I deal with this shit daily for Automotive Companies where Production Machines often still run on Windows XP... yes XP.
And the Support People are retired or even dead...
I had a case where a 75 year old guy needed a Windows 98 Virtual Machine to build a Programming Environment to fix a 25 year old Bug in the Software.
I don't know how Neve will support this thing for more than a few years.
As an IT Guy in regards to Music: Leave the IT out the Chain as much as you can.
For embedded devices, Microsoft have an LTSC (Long Term Channel Support) of Windows that is supported for a much longer period; the current LTSC version of Windows 10, for example, is planned to end extended support in 2032 - Windows 11 LTSC hasn't been released yet. These versions don't support the full Windows experience however (because they're designed to be run on single-use embedded systems).
@@cynicaloutlook I know about that but it is still a huge mess. The current LTSC Versions have so much issues (Siemens SPS / RS232 / 488 etc..) that Windows 7 and XP still lives on in industrial environments an nobody supports it that we have to isolate them.
Do you want to isolate a Neve Console in 8 years so it doesn't bring viruses to your Network? No thanks....
It is simply a bad idea to put Windows on such devices.
WHY IN THE BLUE HELL would Neve not use Linux like EVERYONE else in audio? Its literally just control software, no different than any digital console or digitally controlled analog. Most companies setup a small Linux server running a self repairing terminal that should never crash unless hardware (CPU or so on) fails. Everyone uses Linux under the hood for audio products now since its is made for servers that run 24/7 even SSL's live desks use it. I remember when Euphonix came out with a digitally controlled analog desk and it was a nightmare for anyone who owned them and they were based on Windows as well.
@@joesalyers Will Linux run on faulty hardware? This is a bit how it looks like
Exactly! Linux is AWESOME!!!
becasue linux sucks and has as many problems as windows
It’s all the same binary tech, if a physical component goes the program is useless
Mac for me, decades of dependable use, Never!! Had a virus
@@GW2_Live Yea Linux is terrible and the reason why ever major cloud provider and server farm use it is because its so bad. Linux is not mining data at all times even offline or powered down like Windows does with Intel's Management Engine which runs the MINIX operating system, which is embedded in all Intel CPUs. Neve uses Intel. Windows is a terrible OS, 90% of recording studios use MacOS and almost all audio products with a small OS on board, like a digital console or audio servers use Linux. Even Waves switched away from Windows to Linux because it Windows was so problematic trying to eat up bandwidth to mine data on closed loop networks for waves soundgrid. There is a whole article on Waves website about how even after killing every data mining operations on Windows as soon as Soundgrid established a closed network for audio the OS would reinitiate data mining in the background even though it was closed loop. That is a dystopian and a complete breach of trust as well as a terrible way to kill hardware faster than normal. It would be like if you neighbor stole your headlights off of a car and when you said something about it their answer was you don't need to drive at night.
Question: Does that need to contact a server for any sort of activation? I know windows does but what about the console software? If so that is built in obsolescence and they can turn it into a paperweight whenever they want.
As someone who has worked in the embedded space i cant believe they are doing it that way unless its just a standard usb c cable and they are going to support the app on every version of windows into the future. At the same time ive seen how much a modern replacement computer for an older SSL costs
A Windows 10 computer crashing? Who would've thought!
You can't call bassists dumb anymore when you bought a studio console with Windows 10!
Worse it's the Win10 IoT (internet of things, wow that was a few years ago buzzword, wasn't it) edition.
That's a real pain in the arse! All that money on a desk based on Windows! Jesus, do you really have to replace the computer if the OS fails????? there's open source Linux OS out there that would be infinitely better than Windows. That's really poor from Neve. At least the Tech Support is good.
I do not think it was a problem with Windows itself as the computer had some sort of a hardware failure.
@@shane011471 ah I thought the fact that Glenn tried Windows recovery that it was a software issue. Fair enough but it would be more prudent not to use Windows as the base OS for something like this due to its flaky nature.
@@bandsbikesandboozereviews It was just an assumption so at the end of the day who knows. Windows recovery sucks and it's best to just go ahead and do a clean install.
@@shane011471 definitely agree with you on Windows Recovery. Pot luck whether it works or not.
Just reinstall windows if its that bad...no need to buy another computer...windows is fine, it just expects you to know what you are doing as well...meaning, dont be a moron.
Wow, I feel your pain Glenn. I have a Neve 8424 console with motorized faders. I’ve had it less than a year and the right side of the master channel went out, no sound. I’ve been in contact with Neve support and they have been very helpful assisting with the diagnosis and sending me the replacement part. Though I do wish it was moving along a little faster as it’s been 2.5 weeks since the ticket was opened. Just received a “lower monitor board” replacement from Neve today and now need to arrange a tech to come over and install it. Fingers crossed this works. I understand things break and Neve support has been very helpful, just a little let down it only took this long for something to break. Praying this fixes the issue and the console is solid for years to come. Though I definitely will be considering purchasing the Neve Care extended warranty once my 2 year is up.
The Neve mix sounds much better to me, greater clarity, punch and more space. It just hooks me more. Only listening through decent earbuds for what it's worth.
System64 boot configuration error. Happens when Windows is not shut down correctly. Can also be a bad sector on ssd/hdd . Not sure if you can fix that your self.
Looks like an embedded machine. Not much you can do. I suspect everything is soldered down because repairability isn't a thing anyone care about
@@redlionhead5902 Could be a micro pc too running locked win10/64 with neves own shell.. But Nothing is exempt from a 64boot failure. It would be locked down so self repair wouldn't be an option. Probably easer to just do a swap in.
Must be made by gibson
Can we apply your “last 5% worth it” logic, to pickups, tubes, woods, amps?
If there's a trivial difference only audible on some specific gear and not on what 90% of listeners use then I'm hands down all for the cheapest option of the selection.
For a further Neve vs Reaper comparison, I have a couple suggestions:
1 Frequency sweep & white noise comparisons for pure frequency comparisons without the mixing factor
2 For the mixing side of things, how about an approximate amount of time used to do the mixing? Even if the audio was 100% exactly the same, show us the time difference between using the 2 methods of mixing. That is as you said a major factor in the value 🤙
You make me wanna work with some one who knows how to record because while i love learning skills, this is a bit beyond me still. You still get massive credit for alot of my choices in gear and why I choose them. Half my CZcams recommended is demos of speakers, pedals, pickups, etc. All so I could fine tune what I wanted. Thank you for helping me make wiser and more responsible choices in gear. I hope one day you can hear my full setup and I can learn more from you! Keep it up!
Hey Glen, 6 months into a warranty is far far better than 1 day outside of the warranty!
I am sorry this happened. I waited 2 years for a custom guitar build and it is the shop due to a fret issue. Don't be dismayed. You will get through this and any electronics can fail at any time, new or old. Hang in there. Love your stuff:)
Assuming this was in the same order as the blind video and clips didn't get mixed around from video to video, I was wrong about mix 2!
I typically liked the Reaper mixes better, but mix 2 just sounded better on the Neve to me. Listening to it all again today, I can see how people like the Neve mixes more in general, but they feel a little muffled in a direct AB comparison.
Loved the analysis!
I think I'll stick to an audio interface and a pair of 5" studio monitors if expensive equipment like this is just going to fail after 6 months...
Got that blue screen of death. I have not seen that for a while! 😀
Sorry about your gear woes Glenn, but props to AMS Neve's customer support for being on top of things. Personally, this is why my gear is all analog. I love the idea of instant recallability with hybrid digital systems like Bettermaker and Wes Audio, but how long before the unit becomes a brick when the company folds or stops sending out firmware updates? How much will you be able to sell that console for in 10 years if you decide to move on? A quality all analog console will retain its value much better in the long run, and in some cases even increase in value. I buy my equipment with the intent of keeping it for decades, not 5 years or less. If I were in your shoes I'd definitely be looking at buying a backup computer or two.
I’ve never seen Glenn almost in tears. That was heartbreaking. Hope it gets better for you.
The neve mixes seem to have more saturation and compression that glues the mixes better than the in the box mixes. It's subtle. With a instance of very very light Saturation in the box at the start and end of each process chain I think the in the box could get even closer to the neve.
Show of hands, how many of you think you can hear the difference between the Neve and a Behringer on a high gain metal guitar or heavy drum track or scream vocal track. How clean does your console pre need to be to record a hard clipped distorted guitar tone?
I have had that error once, just rebooted and everything was fine. Turned out it was my CMOS.