Zeno Needs To Go Away! | Dragonball Discussion
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2019
- The days of #DragonBallSuper have led to us thinking that what comes next will be major...but one key character may be left behind judging by fan sentiment: The Omni King. Zeno and his future counterpart are seen as annoying mascots...but is that fair? What can #Dragonball do to fix this, if anything? Let's discuss! #DragonBallZ
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reaction dragon ball super reaction dragon ball what if - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Zeno: THAT WAS SUPER COOL!
Zeno 2: YES, REALLY REALLY COOL!
Me: haha, they're kinda cute
Zeno: THAT WAS SUPER COOL! (20x)
Zeno 2: YES, REALLY REALLY COOL (20x)
Me: Ight, I'm bout to head out.
Kinda cute is already too much
This is literally why I didn't watch the series
In the Baki the grappler tournament experienced warriors other serious information
DBZ
Zeno: "oh Goku turn blue now he must be super strong"
Zeno 2 : "oh he must be really super strong"
Annoying two little shits
Yeah it's annoying and no longer favourite
For me, the worst part about the two zenos besides the personality lacking is just there is a severe lack of distinction in even appearance between them. Meaning why even bother have two who are carbon copies of each other in every single way possible
"An omni-king sized problem."
So... two feet tall and easily puntable?
OMG now that you've mentioned that I have an image in my mind of kicking zeno like a football that I can't shake - LMAO
I have to get up for work in a few hours and when it eventually gets nasty I'm going to think about that to make myself happy
Zeno:
Goku:
Zeno:
Goku:
Zeno:
Goku: Yeet.
Jason Clark Zeno:
Goku: Erased
bonk
My two main issues with Zeno :
1- He was introduced way too early.
2- the Goku Black arc ending.
I mean the Goku black arc is a big issue on its own so everything about it has an issue (im looking at you trunks)
*Looks at trunks aswell*
I partly agree with your first issue, a lot of things in super felt rushed or too soon, but honestly I'm okay with how early they introduced Zeno. I think his presence needed to be established early on. Conversely, I would have loved to see arcs involving each individual universe before the start of the ToP. It would have made every universe's erasure as impactful as Universe 6's, or at the very least, universe 9's.
@wicket warrick "nothing wrong"
h a h
i like both of those things.
I feel like Zeno is a caricature of us as fans, and Akira uses him to make fun of our blind and sparking love for beefcakes fighting with laser beams.
I wouldn't be surprised
At least we remember characters better than him
@@maverickdarkrath4780 true
I don't think Toriyama is the kind of writer to use metaphor like that. I think the Zenos are just dorks and part of the whole "the gods kinda suck in dragonball" thing we've kinda had since Kami but definitely with Supreme kai.
Also, while they might be incredibly callous, it might also be that they can create universes themselves (acting as both destroyer and Supreme Kai of universes rather than splitting the role... that or there is some as yet unnamed and unseen Supreme Kai of the multiverse) and see a universes destruction as no more meaningful than deleting a file on a semiautomated program on a computer.
The Omni Kings have nothing on Toribot
They wouldn't exist either if it wasn't for him.
"Will erase you if you made a selfish wish" but also they are selfish themselves and have been erasing universes left and right before the start of dragon ball.
Shhhh they wrote themselves into a corner. Don't try to make sense of it.
devilmikey00 Or the Zen-Ohs are just hypocrites.
The Zenos are just really childish
Leonardo Farias That too
@@superlombax1561 And wants all things hes way and only hes way
The main problem I have with the Omni-Kings at this point in the story is that the existence of two of them in the same plane of reality hasn't had any plot significance. The Grand Priest, the bodyguards, or even the gods of the other universes that wouldn't know the events of the Goku Black Arc don't seem concerned at all about how unnatural this is, or that time travel was committed by mortals despite how risque that is. And the Omni-Kings themselves should have slightly different outlooks as their experiences with gods and mortals have now differed. I want the two Zenos to have a disagreement in a future arc about how to run the multiverse and see the consequences of that dispute and how that affects each universe and its respective gods.
To be fair, he's their boss with literal unlimited power. There being two of him is weird sure, but not really anything you as a peon can do about it...not to mention the idea of a civil war between the two of them probably terrifies everyone to their cores.
Pretty sure everyone would be screwed...
Yeah, literally no one can compete with the angels ( and a few can barely reach the GoDs ) and you want the two Zenos to annihilate everything in a civil war...
Its weird because Zeno that Goku summoned is Zeno in the future....of universe 7...and I thought this guy rules above all the universes
I'm starting to think Zeno is a self-aware reference to how many levels of "supreme god" there are... Zeno's paradox of Dragonball gods. No matter how far you travel to reach the top god, there are always more above that point!
See Kami, King Kai, Grand Kai, Supreme Kai, Omniking...
By *being* the very top god?
@Ethan Kellerman
Fair point.
Don't forget the Grand Supreme Kai, the being that was absorbed by Buu and lives on in Majin Buu.
@@MaxUltimata
OK, what about him?
@@Bezaliel13 No, I'm saying that there was another rung on the ladder of gods that he missed.
Oh yeah, and King Yemma.
Is it possible that Toei was more interest into "MARKETING!"?? 😱
Selling toys??!
@TheAngelic1 Yeah, but it wasn't so painfully obvious back then as it is right now.
Yah because people are just dying for plushies and merch of a character like this one
Zeno actually has little to no toys or merch, so what are they marketing?
Zenos are just puppets. Everybody knows farmer with a shotgun pulls their strings.
Mr. Poppo
Toribot
@@gamergamer7508 *POPO
Excuse me, you all misspelled "Hercule Satan".
The Problem with Zeno is this.......he can't do anything without changing anything to his liking. He's a good favor for the heroes of the Dragon Ball universe but he indeed struggles with his problem solving skills and his judging skills. Also I wanted to point this out......that the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc may come into effect.
@NovaPrime Productions I mean he does fight!... For a bit... Without his own free will.
69th like 😏
While watching the Universal Survival/Tournament of Power Saga, I felt that it needed a special cut where the Omni-Kings DON'T TALK. Anyone else agree?
They really have no purpose but to be kids awkwardly pretending to be the badasses they watch.
@@josephbriggs2257 Yeah it ends up just being filler that doesnt add much besides more talking to pat out an episode.
Goku become super saiyan blue
Zeno 1:that was Amazing just now!
Zeno2:just now that was amazing!
Gush there is no more annoying characters than them in the series
Masakox: big things come in small packages.
Masakox's wife: he's right.
11:43 Wait. We shouldn't watch Dragon Ball as adults because nostalgia? Okay...
(Goes back to playing Pokemon like the last twenty years)
I never got the indication that zeno was smarter than he seems until the end of the TOP
That ending was an asspull.
The story seriously expects me to believe this drooling stewie knock off simpleton is wise?
@@1slayer959 whats "wise" about "If the winnner of this tournament isn't selfless imma blow everyone up."? It's still a very childish response to a problem. All it showed is Zeno actually does take his job seriously enough to form a plan. Even if said plan is wildly unfair to the people he rules over.
@@Fanatic_Foremem thats exactly my point.
Power has nothing to do with morality.
Supposedly u7 was the second worse universe. And they had the second strongest fighter.
If anything it just shows how likely it was for winning universe to be evil making his plan self defeating.
@@Fanatic_Foremem because its unexpected?
@@leonardofarias8843 because its hypocritical and makes no logical sense.
11:15
Let's not even get into the tragedy of them not only breaking Spiderman marriage up, but the fact that nobody in the marvel universe(besides miles morales and some younger characters) seem to actually age😂
All because it would take away their "relatibility"
Despite Peter and mjs relationship and interactions with each other being high key GOALS
what? why are you bringing up spiderman?
@@StanTheBland it's an example of how writers stagnate their characters to keep them in their most "relatable" forms.
@@chriss.249 tbf, Spiderman specifically wasn't a writer's issue, it was an editorial mandate. But yeah.
Who's still mad Perfect Cell wasn't picked?
Animators were too lazy to draw his circles SMH. He literally has higher potential than Freeza, through DBS logic.
Imagine if Cell trained for 4 months & became Platinum Perfect Cell
Nobody likes Cell over in Japan.
Majin Buu and Frieza always had popularity advantages over him.
Also he's been intent on destroying the universe. Frieza won't appreciate that, neither will Buu or anyone.
@@benjaminmcneil574 his goal isn't really a issue. Cause Frieza is literally a genocidal maniac & that didn't stop Goku & Co from bringing him back.
Though yeah popularity would be a problem.
@@greymon3654 Platinum cell would be lowkey badass
Masako: "So here's the problem with Grand Zeno."
Nobody:........
Grand Zeno: "A WORLD LIKE THIS, MUST DISSAPEAR!"
Zamasu: REEEEEE
If you think that Zeno is stupid just remember that Ash used thunder shock on a rock type.
*ground
I remember a gym leader thinking pure rock types were immune to electric attacks
Fun Fact:
Not every Gen 1 Rock-type Pokémon is immune to Electric.
Ironically, the ones that aren't part-Ground (ie. the Fossils) are all weak against Electric-type moves.
Oh, I member!
Rock type is not immune to electricity but ground type is
Funny thing is, these are villains who you literally can't fight, because the moment the consider you a threat, or even an annoyance, they can blip you out of existence.
No saving throw, no resistance, just obliteration.
To be fair, in manga you have a very limited amount of space to work with. Number of pages and panels per page. Anime you get far more to work with, 24 mins usually per episode. So being able to expand upon Zeno in the anime makes sense honestly.
The problem isn’t that they were expanded upon, it’s that it was done in a way that deflated any menacing or mysterious presence they had in Zeno’s first few appearances.
@@Popcultureguy3000 Exactly. "It's one thing to expand, it's another thing entirely to do it well." -Adam.J Seebach
finally someone with some commonsense
The main reason why i hate him:
The show cannot make its mind on what it thinks about him, and it turn, we don't know what we're supposed to see him as. It's inconsistent and confusing.
Exactly.
And he affects the plot. Goku can easily ask him for help to erase anything or anyone
@@warwick802 Knowing Goku, he'd never do that unless things get 'Universe Zamasu' bad.
@@warwick802
I'm pretty late but I have to Mitigate what you said. No, Goku cannot ask him for help. Remember when he asked Zeno's Help to erase Zamasu? He ended erasing the WHOLE universe. Even DBS Goku isn't that DUMB. Even more since Goku and his friends survived thanks to the time Machine. If Goku asks for Zeno help in his own timeline, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't just do the same thing.
"Could've went south" Kind of like how South Galaxy went south from Broly
AYOOOO
My main problem with him is that he wouldn’t stfu in the ToP.
You are missing the point of Zeno. Zeno isn't a character younger audiences are supposed to relate to. Zeno is a stand in for the young audience itself. If Zeno doesn't like the tournament then the universe can't continue. The newer audience will decide if the series is cool and worth continuing. The Zeno's wanted to see cool fights, the kids want to see cool fights. The fighters who lose to the heroes are boring, therefore they get erased. They sit in their char with their iPads, discussing the "show/tournament" just like the young audience is.
I feel that they represent the fans, to explain I mean that because of how childish and such fans of Goku they are that it's hard to see it otherwise. Dragon ball exists to sell merchandise that's the primary goal, so to Toei, they see us as children and nothing more of fanboys and because of how powerful they are; they're the gods of everything after all so if we don't like something or aren't fans of it, they will destroy it. I could be more wrong than right on this but it's still an interesting idea to think about since a lot of things do add up.
You know, I've never seen anyone actually talk about the future timeline that Zeno was taken from. Was it implied that he destroyed literally every Universe in that timeline? Because if not, I'm sure there's some people kind of freaking out that they're god-king just vanished.
But that would mean Zamasu’s soul had spread beyond future Trunk’s timelines universe into the other remaining twelve.
@@Popcultureguy3000
Exactly. So there's definitely still other gods out there wondering "Where is the boss? WHERE IS THE BOSS!?"
Does Zeno create planets too? Feels odd there’s so many destructive forces in this universe without anything to balance it out. That’s the most terrifying aspect so far.
Why do these corporations always think that most of there young audience are dumb?
TBH, a lot are. They'll justify any BS shown in the show for sake of a fight or "so a character can get spotlight". Very sheep-like....
B R yeah but there not all like that.
*thier
Cuz u wrote "there" instead of "their"
Well, Toyotaro was forced to rush the arc
And now look at the moro arc, tons of positive opinions, reviews, comments and many people are enjoying it, because he has more time now
He had to rush it for a saga that has anything to do with Broly
A childish omnipotent emperor of the multiverse? It's even Lovecraftian sort of idea similar to blind chaos Azathoth.
A bit less so, if Azathoth ever wakes up, reality in its entirety ends.
I woke azathoth from his bed once with a belt and reality was erased, so I kinda had to drug him in order to restore reality.
Morale of the story, drugs are rad.
Headcanon: Zeno is the Son of Mr. Popo (TFS)
I actually liked the happy childish Zenos in the anime when something cool would happen it was great to see their reactions. They were like a crowd at a wrestling show and reacting the way us fans of the show would. I feel like the Zenos would've loved DBZA Recoome BECAUSE IT RHYMES! WITH! DOOM!
7:33- and in spite of seeing him doing this act in action on impulse, Goku still thought it was a good idea to bring up a tournament to now identical beings who think the same way about problems- without there being any consequences.
Certainly a problem of Dragon Ball Super Goku. He's just not intelligent; Not in anything that does not involve fighting. And is single minded to getting more fights... even at the risk of literally everything and everyone.
Grimoire666 You do know that Zeno was going to erase those universes anyway, so there weren’t any consequences to the tournament of power, besides good ones.
ThePcGamer well the very point is that is that nobody knew that in the anime, other than the Zenos and grandpriest. Most of all, Goku didn’t know, and was willing to risk his universe just “to fight strong guys”. We didn’t know that till the very end of the arc.
Giga Phoenix But he didn’t think there was any risk at all.
@@jiraffe9600 In the very beginning yep, but when he found out, he still reveled in it. The whole point was the apparent consequences didn't matter to DBS Goku. He was content, excited and happy from start to finish, despite whatever consequences became *Apparent* to his or other universes.
I'll agree that Zeno was a pretty clever concept, just really not a good execution especially in the Tournament arc. I don't care if rescuing the deleted universes was their plan all along, the gleeful tone in which the Zeno were causing interdimensional genocide really didn't make them endearing characters. I mean, I didn't hate them as much as the series made me hate Goku near the end. Watching that one group that basically said with smiles on their faces "Know we did our best with love and friendship as you slip away into the horrific void of nothingness," was dark, disturbing, and depressing. Especially for an anime. And Goku and the Zeno just sat there, smiling with cutesy voices about how "cool" fighting was. Yeah, we all knew someone was going to wish for all the universes back because that's how storytelling works. Just the fact that Zeno is supposed to be the audience surrogates, backhanded compliment and all, and that we're supposed to still like Goku through all this taints the series. The thing that made the series good in the first place was seeing characters grow and change. Some characters were happy with their civilian life, some characters grew out of their main traits especially Roshi. It feels like the entire thesis of the show is that everyone moved on, but Goku not only stayed the same, but regressed into an even dumber version of himself when he was a kid. And this is NEVER called out on. I spent the entire arc waiting for an enraged Vegeta, after losing the other universe Sayan he was mentoring, to pull Goku over and just give him the business about how freaking selfish and arrested his development was. But no. Completely walked over. And that's the problem with the Zeno. They were Goku enablers the entire time. And they're supposed to represent the audience?!
“Hmmm where we seen that before.. Cough GT Cough”!
Agree Frost
Congrats on your wedding mate hope you both stay happy together
12:16
As a GT fan, I feel very called out.
To be honest, they kind of remind me of myself as a kid. When I first started watching, I didn't care much about character deaths or backstory. I just wanted to see cool fights. Granted, I wasn't as excitable, but I was easily bored if there wasn't constant action.
I vividly remember watching the episode where Vegeta gives a dying speech to Goku, before Frieza kills him. At the time, I remember thinking stuff like, "Oh great, it's going to be a talking episode, isn't it?", "Shouldn't he have bleed out by now?", "I just want to see Goku fight Frieza already", and "Well, that was a waste of an episode." Thankfully, I have matured since then.
Anyway, maybe Toei realised they missed up the Omnikings, that last bit as an attempt to redeem them. Like, "See they weren't just goofing around, they had a plan this while time", or something
the is something about a character that can just go 'Bored now!' and just erase an entire UNIVERSE as a whim that that bugs me more than it should.
To be fair, most of them did attack universe seven. Edit: I also wonder sense the Zenos were so into the Patara fusion, if they'll do something like it.
Merged Zeno...?
Oh my.
But they're the same person from different timelines. It would be like having one Zeno again, but way more powerful
Never really liked Zeno after the Goku Black arc. The Universe Survival Saga didn't really help either.
Zeno is the representation of us(The Viewers) Zeno Is A Dragon Ball Super Fan, Zeno can make anything and or everything in Dragon Ball Super go "Bye-Bye" and The viewers have the same power to make Dragon Ball Super Go "Bye-Bye" By Complaining About EVERYTHING & ANYTHING and Not Watching The Show would cause Ratings to Fall Off and Then Super would be Cancelled or "Erased" but if Super is going good and the people like it then it shall remain... and that's to just put it simple
I'm glad someone else brought it up. The head angle is totally manipulating thing. And in fact I think he's going to be a villain. He almost has to be after what they did.
But yeah, thank you for the reminder. I legit forgot how scary he could be initially. He mimicked for a long time a lot of the more horrible and negative aspects of Goku's own childish lack of foresight. Innocence is usually viewed as good but far too often we adults forget that Innocence also begets a certain lack of empathy (because they don't know to exercise it). Its why kids can be manipulative little sociopaths. Early Zenos sortof gives that feel in retrospect, although for a while he makes you question "is this guy actually innocent or just disconnected?". He's so much bigger than anything else that he's almost the kid burning ants on the playground even once is treated as innocent. In that version the High Priest is almost his handler - the guardian that deflects his more negative impacts when he's bored (not unlike the lesser angels and their interactions with the more minor god's childishness really). In the anime it almost seemed like HP was more the trigger man waiting for a reason. Like he *wanted* to turn Zenos loose for some nebulous personal goal.
Lol I'm always so off base from the rest of the DB fandom. I quite liked Zeno and how he was written. Tbh it took me back to being a kid watching DB.
Honestly that scene with the fusion reaction reminded me of hanging out with my nephew when I was watching a Godzilla movie and he saw Godzilla do the atomic breath and reacted so excitedly with "CoooooLLLL!!!"
Yeah Zeno reminds me of the fandom and how we all go crazy over cool attacks.
He was kinda fun and a little unique in that it's actually unclear if he even can fight at all or if he just has the Hakai power scaled to an infinite level. My only real problem with him so far (aside from hinting at dropped plot points, that always really bothers me), is that there is effectively nowhere left to go beyond him, possibly subverted in that Goku may not care as much if Zeno's only power is just deletion and nor actually fighting at all.
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat meh people said the same thing about King Piccollo, Vegeta, Freeza, Cell, Buu, Beerus etc
that he exists. That's the problem with Zeno.
No it's not
@@thedead073 yes it is. just like most of super existing is also the problem with super. Face it, they had two good ideas and the rest was crap.
@@clericofchaos1 I don't even know where to start. You do realise that this isn't even a valid complaint right?
@@thedead073 a whole lot of fans were disappointed in super. Heard plenty of people say that dragonball would have been better off without it.
Zeno is disappointing AF if this is really the so called "Omni King" then somebody only needs to master time control & they could destroy zeno in one move its plain stupid that zeno is a king his childish his dumb he has no fighting ability no physical strengths basically his the worst "God" in any fictional story i have ever seen
The problem with Zeno is...everything. Zero redeeming factors.
He's one of my main gripes with Super, further adding that the stakes and consequences no longer matter anymore since Goku can contact him whenever he's on the brink of death.
Chris Cannon that’s a false observation. The last time he did it, an entire multiverse was destroyed. First off.
Second off, Dragon Ball started with zero stakes and the Dragon Balls kept things like that. Potara and Dance Fusion as well nullified them. Goku can “just” convince Vegeta to fuse OR ask Gohan. So, this entire argument is pointless
I wanted to see more of the other universes in the TOP arc. It Dragon Ball so you know who is going to win. Plus with the reveal that it has just a test for the mortals they panted out an other tournament with the unused universes because now everyone knows it's just a test.
Its the audience equivalent of how the producers expect us to react... f'm
Honestly, I like then and kinda feel like they helped the ToP to feel a bit less dour and more chipper. A little disconcerting considering several entire universes were destroyed, yes, but I assume they have the power to create more universes a la Supreme kais.
We did just come off of the Goku black arc which is arguably the darkest arc in all of dragonball so far (what with at least one universe being completely destroyed of all life and Future Trunks' entire timeline truly destroyed), we kinda needed some levity. A low stakes tournament was a good idea but the framing device made the tournament out to be as high stakes as possible and we don't even have characters like the tournament announcer or the champ Hercule Satan to brighten the mood. Zenos giving commentary worked for me and I liked them providing a bit of levity.
Personally, I do agree that there are annoying dropped plot points with the angels and grand priest going on but that's not their fault that the writing was a bit sloppy. I do also agree that Future Zeno destroying Trunks timeline was a bad idea even if visually cool, it really should have just been left b as the sword of hope being enough and then just using shenron or something to bring his universe back (maybe Zalama?) to pre-Goku black.
My last gripe with them is just that it'd be a bit awkward for anyone to ever be stronger than them and thus, they almost necessarily serve as the final strongest person Goku could go up against. Oddly, it might actually be a non-issue since they might only have a kind of super hakai power and not an actual fighting ability, so Goku might just lose interest and call it boring. Also, the buu arc did kinds establish that the Supreme Kai was weaker than buu, who was created by mortals, so it's already established fact that gods aren't necessarily stronger than the mortals they oversee. Also we kinda saw something similar with Gero, a random scientist, creating androids magnitudes stronger than even Frieza, the strongest person in the universe. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for the stakes to be upped from new villains in weird places.
Not really related but it’s kinda funny to me when people refer to as Goku being the strongest anime character despite him not even being top 20 in his own show anymore. There’s the gods of destruction, angels, Grand Priest, Zeno and those 2 guards. Goku’s not even the strongest mortal it’s whatever Merus turns out to be then Broly and Jiren.
Uh, mascot? There is more problems than that. the Omni-King is pretty evil for destroying entire universes for childish reasons. should be replaced with a more reasonable ruler.
11:44
That's the thing tbh
Kids now a days are much smarter than the generations that came before it.
Access to better tech and other forms of learning that previous gens b4 it didn't have(when I was lil, leapfrog learning pads were the wave and the coolest thing I'd seen at the time. V smart too lol).
Kids are smarter? Kids get more *access* to knowledge, but I dunno about actual intelligence. Technology provides information, though it does little for actual learning ability.
@@br9760 u have a point, but if u factor in all that kids can do from such interactions with technology, it can correlate to an increase in intelligence.
That intro is ROYALTY gold! Are u an ANGEL of comedy?
The problem with Zeno is that he is kinda pointless. He can destroy and create, but so can GoDs and Supreme Kais, right? He's there to do the management of the GoDs, but so are the Angels. Zeno doesn't have a thing to call his own.
José Cavalcanti he’s the creator of everything ( probably ). The Angels have to report the work of the GoDs to him, but they ( the angels ) don’t force the GoDs to do anything ( as we could see ). If a universe is destroyed he can restore it. If a universe is rebellious, weak, or overwhelmed by chaos, he can destroy it. It’s as if to say that the One Above All ( in Marvel ) and the Presence ( in DC ) don’t have a role because mortals and other gods already guard the universes...
@@LuisBrito-ly1ko I'm not saying that he's useless, I'm just saying that he didn't came with anything new, and is kinda unfair compare Dragon Ball's "God" with Marvel's or DC's. The One Above All and The Presence are unique in a way in their universes, but Zeno? Everything he does, the other deities do too.
Zeno needs to go away? Yeah, I'm all for that.
They should definitely give more explanation and more parallels with the manga instead of rushing it. Do you think that they should make other Dragon Ball characters canon and do arcs with them like Cooler, Android 21, or any other characters before they adapt the Moro arc? They should give them good explanation, development, and great battle sequences (with DBZ's version of battles) instead of rushing through.
do: bojack,ake cooler/golden cooler canon, janemba, possibly turles with his own version of blue/rose coming from the fruit, but after moro, super GT happens
I knew el grande padre was behind this tournament the entire time. That's why he had to buy his puppet rulers a godpad to watch the fighting. He actually put this tournament together to try to awaken Gohan blanco, but the time wasn't right.
You know I would like to know how these universe pairs work in more depth, because if there were originally 18 universes than each pair would have to add up to nineteen, not thirteen. Presumably the universes had pairs before Zeno destroyed six of them. So did the other 12 get remade at that time also, did the pairings just switch, why does each one need a partner universe anyway? And if they do need a partner universe to balance the multiverse, shouldn't that universe be somewhat opposite of them to balance out the energy? Why aren't there any of Jiren's race in Universe 2? or Toppo or Despo? I mean Saiyans, Yardratians and Earthlings exist in the 6th! Or, existed... Either way, there are so many questions I need to find answers to.
Well since Zeno is supposed to be the God of every universe I think it would have been better to make Zeno omnipotent like say the First time he was introduced he says Goku’s name before he even introduces himself and then he explains he already knows everything about Goku despite the fact that they just met
BlueKirby
The thing is that it isn’t Toriyama’s style. He’s mainly a comedy writer and then a Shōnen Manga author. Toriyama wrote a vague script and Toei moved in its own while crossing blind points. However, they always try to resemble Toriyama’s style. That’s why Zeno is like that. Not to mention that Super is for kids.
Besides, if he was omnipotent, Goku Black arc wouldn’t have happened in the first place.
Luis Brito maybe I guess I just it weird that he’s the God of all the Universe in Dragon ball and yet he doesn’t seem to know much when other Gods of with this Power are usually both Mysterious and Omnipotent
I think there is a hint in Zenos using opposite hands... maybe the Zeno from Trunks' timeline has a different personality too, considering the two of them had different encounters... maybe the alternate timeline Zeno had resigned to seeing his universes get ravaged by villains and was more direct with his approach than our timeline's Zeno
Zeno basically ruins any tension the series had left.
There is a huge hint towards GT regarding Zeno indeed, it's currently a empty character that doesn't really belong in the Dragon Ball realm a it so far is shown. The manga may be better but that doesn't mean that it is a good character in that regard. It's just the same as saying "hey we have candy for you, but oh you have to be happy with only the wrapper".
Where is the hint from GT
@@leonardofarias8843 You didn't see the video? Masako actually mentioned it
Zeno: Are you back stabbing me? I'll erase you!
Masako: I'm not canon
Zeno: Bruh
I actually like the part where Zen-oh destroys trunk's timeline, or at least to concept. I wish future Zen-oh was slightly more serious and ominous than present Zen-oh, and I love the idea of seeing a darker side of the little guys doing something like obliterating trunk's timeline. Just, leave trunks in the present day.
good vid and I like some of your topic
The biggest problem with DB Super is that way too many new power ups and characters are being introduced way too quickly. But mostly on characters. Toriyama or whoever else that was writing for DBS with him at the time should've took the time to explore already established characters that were either forgotten or just flat out being ignored for the rest of the show.
Like, Upa from the original kid Dragonball arc, Mercenary Tao, Or bring back Launch for goodness sake (even if Toriyama did forgot about her). Make her finally get Tien or something instead of that random Chinese martial artist girl from that one filler episode. Heck, make Yamcha self aware and evolve into a powerful villain for being the butt of every joke. Just *something* for the characters that have already been there since Z and before.
I still pretty sure Zeno in the anime's ToP arc had so many lines solely to spread out the scenes and add run time to the episodes and streeetch it out as much as possible as (possibly) they felt they didn't have enough content to fill out their episode requirements.
5:13... because that worked out so well for choutsu
I feel Zeno should be something akin to the sleeping gods in "Cabin in the Woods" . They should be a representation of the fans and the fandom and will go off the hook if something doesn't go the way they want to. It should also be words before action that stop him before erasing a universe. Something like, its okay Universe 6 is still exciting and then go on an adventure to prove that point.
I have a theory since the 2nd Zeno arrived from future trunks “dark timeline”. In the ending of DBS..that both zenoes will fused or merge somehow.where do you go after that??
I hope in a new Super Arc that there's a plot where the Zenos face a threat so large that they're forced to potara fuse into a stronger adult version, like in the DB Fusions game. That would be awesome.
Important Question: What creates in the Void?
I wonder if this show will even go on, I mean where can they go with this ?
I thought it'd been cool at the end of the Goku Black arc, as the Zeno in the universe wipes it out, have Zamasu put his essence in the Omni King.
That certainly makes sense because if it was zenos idea he may not have bothered leaving the angels alone.
Zeno is irritiating, doesnt add anything good to the series. He should undraw himself from the franchise
the 3 most annoying things about Zeno
1.powerful but annoying
2.Toriyamas choice in designing him.
and 3.theirs 2 of them! 1 was annoying enough.
Ah... I see what you did there
Oh my God, it's the monitors from DC again. Now I can think of is the "we should do something. Should we do something? We should do something. Should we do something?" Joke.
Any mention about how Toonami seemingly doesn't want to stop airing Dragon Ball Super?
I mean for crying out loud! They Cancelled both Gundam:The Origin and Boruto just to keep it
on air! (And that's not mentioning the pointless My Hero Academia Repeat at 4 am.)
Also you did a what if on Krillin becoming a Saiyan. Why has no one thought of making that wish? What if while the Eternal Dragon was present Vegeta by accident wished the people of the earth were Saiyans. Like Yamcha said something so insipid that Vegeta said it under breath like.
*_"ugh Yamcha, I wish you were all Saiyans so that perhaps you might grasp the stupidity of what you were saying and what a buffoon you are, that way you might grasp what Goku and I are trying to do! Idiot,"_* at which point the dragon would respond *_"WISH GRANTED"_* a genuinely accidental wish, which is you know better than Pilaf's accidental wish for comparison. Basically rendering humankind as Saiyans and making Yamcha the Raditz of humanity.
"and making Yamcha the Raditz of humanity."
"I don't know what a Yamcha or Raditz is, but it sounds disappointing." - Guru
@@AkodoAkira1 hashana good one mate
What if android eight helped fight king piccolo and then stayed in the story through to the android saga where he helped provide character development for dr.gero and bonded with android 16
What if the present Zeno is supposed to be Toriyama and the future one is Toyotarou, and the Daishinkan is actually Toei (and the other angels are representative of the team in the dragon ball room)?
Dragon ball ark idea: War of the Omni Kings. All of the universes have to choose sides.
Dragon Ball: Civil War
Or Universal War.
Each omni king gives each universe that sides with them immunity to being erased and it ends with popo telling the two to play nice or the go back to being dirt
That’s not even an arc considering that the number of mortals that can reach GoD level is almost zero. Let alone Angel level or Grand Priest Level.
@@LuisBrito-ly1ko so the zeno the grand priest sides with wins?
The Zenos just kinda felt like an after-thought to me, just felt like they were shoe-horned in instead of introducing them properly in the anime.
Sometimes I wish we never got new content. Just Dragonball and Z. Take or leave GT. Only 3-4 SSJ transformations, a set cast, a set hiearchy. It seems tighter and more thought out.
I see Zeno's butting in during the Anime as Toei padding for time. Every character does the same thing, describing what just happened. Static dialogue shots are cheaper than fight choreography. That and reused fight animation helped the show last longer with less effort.
Also unrelated to that point, I'm excited to see the return of Android 13 but this time backed by Zeno.
The king of everything is going to do something
We'll see about that.
the goku black saga shows that the future android 8 is still alive and apparently chose not to try and help against the other future androids who he almost certainly would have known about
i'm not sure how deep this goes, but during the anime TOP the Zenos are pretty obviously supposed to mirror the audience in a way, or at least try to hype up the audience.
What if... and hear me out on this... What if the Grand Priest was equivalent to a top tier Kai, and Zeno is the top tier God of Destruction, thus why we've seen the Grand Priest create the tournament and it's battleground, and Zeno has only been seen to destroy things...
He was a deus ex machina and little else for the goku black arc. Now they have this character who can literally snap his fingers to do anything and on top of that he's best buds with are protagonist. Kind of sucks the tension out of everything going forward when goku can just call up zeno and have him snap away the big bad.
Then again it also sucked all the tension away when Whis revealed he can turn back time or that Beerus can one shot anyone regardless of power. Both characters who are also buddies with are heroes. The only real reason any villain going forward has any reason to exist as a threat is the saiyans selfish desire to have a good fight. That's not exactly high stakes stuff from an audience perspective is it?
Whis can turn back time only one minutes and not many times
@@KamenMasked How do we know they're going to take it back
"Beerus can one shot anyone regardless of power"
If Beerus can one-shot anyone regardless of power, why is he afraid of Zeno and the Grand Priest? Also, deus ex machina is a plot point that is introduced to resolved a plot point with no foreshadowing or warning. Zeno isn't a deus ex machina since the Zeno button was introduced months before it was used.
Also, "The only real reason any villain going forward has any reason to exist as a threat is the saiyans selfish desire to have a good fight"
So, just like Fusion.
I think you've kind of DECIDED that the Grand Priest was up to something when the simple explanation is just bad writing.
Honestly I just hate Zeno as a concept. This brat is liable to erase any universe on a whim, and the fact that he decided not to this one time is considered a happy ending? A selfless wish would be to rid the universe of him.
And now, no matter what, we have someone who will always be stronger than the next villain. Someone emotional and petty who could be convinced to nuke Super Duper Mecha Cell if Goku asked him nice enough.
Ugh.
No more Zeno. They are annoying and always bring the action and story to a screeching stop.
I agree that Zeno should have talked less childly in the tournament, but I think him saying chilling comments ever so awesome dropping tidbits of new cosmology lore would be very cool
It’s mainly due to the fact that they’re so powerful that their mere existence ruins any tension in a plot. It’s the exact same issue that Beerus and whis have. The gods in super are the worst concept to be added to the dragon ball universe because they don’t add anything to the story and at worst make the entire arc feel pointless because they can one shot an enemy, turn back time to prevent death or flat out destroy a timeline
Whis is limited
PRL 412 that’s a poor argumentation. Since the very existence of the Dragon Balls, stakes were from low to non-existent, let alone when Fusing became a thing. Dragon Ball started with zero stakes ( Pilaf Gang mini arc, 21st World Martial Arts Tournament arc, Red Ribbon Army Arc, 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament Arc ). So, “stakes” aren’t really needed in this show nor they’re necessary to make Dragon Ball good.
Wooooooooow! I thought that was cool! I agree! I also think that was cool!
What if the good Android 21(from fighterZ) was canon and helped fight against goku black/in the tournament of power?
What if the two Zenos were to fuse into one, in some way?