Nissan-Infinity no start, no spark from a faulty crank sensor
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2013
- How to troubleshoot a no start, no spark problem. This video is a fantastic review of the material I have in Chapter 2 “Switch Inputs” and Chapter 21 “Ignition System Inputs” in my book. The methods I’m demonstrating here can be applied to ANY pull-up design Hall effect sensor out there, not just Nissan or Infiniti.
Engine Performance Diagnostics chapter 21 pages 20 - 28
Symptoms
- crank, no start
- P0335
Fix
- replace the failed crankshaft position sensor
Tests shown
- how to perform an audible relative compression test
- how to use scan data to check for an RPM signal
- how to use a wiring diagram to identify a sensor circuit
- how to use a scope to check a hall effect sensor circuit
- using a test light to perform a bypass test
Tools used
- Autel MaxiSYS MS908 Diagnostic System with Wireless VCI
www.aeswave.com/cart.php?m=aff...
- PicoScope 4425 4 Channel Standard Diagnostic Kit
www.aeswave.com/cart.php?m=aff...
- OTC 3633 Mini Circuit Tester
www.jbtoolsales.com/otc-3633-...
Playlist
- (Chapter 21) Ignition inputs, cam and crank sensors
• (Chapter 21) Ignition ...
Related videos
- How to test a crank sensor (Chrysler Dodge Jeep)
• How to test a crank se...
- No Start, No Spark, No Injector Pulse (faulty crank sensor)
• No Start, No Spark, No...
- Hall effect cam/crank sensor operation and testing Part 1 (an SD Premium video)
• Hall effect cam/crank ...
- Jeep 4.7 no start from faulty cam sensor (an SD Premium video)
• Jeep 4.7 no start from...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
This is a REAL mechanic, that actually THINKS thru a problem. So much better than those "service technicians" that when you pay for a diagnostics that blindly follow codes and suggest throwing parts and money at it. Thanks for ur videos.
That litterally why he did actually ram a scanner checked a diagram the. Replaced the part the scanner said too
Hi Paul, your video is awesome of explaining how to demonstrate the sensor alone contributing for the failure of vehicle not start by eliminating all the possible cause by systematic way and finding real cause. You are a gift of us. Please continue your teaching for all concerns.
As usual my friend, you have nailed it spot on. This is great material for my young apprentices. This keeps getting drilled into their heads and they use it every day. Your work has done so much for them and for me. Sharpens skills and saves time!
I belive that theses types of videos wake up diagnostic skills . especially the entry level diagnostic mechanic. Keep up the good work Danner
I like the way you supplied the voltage using the test light to create the waveform never thought of that, really good paul always learning something new...
Good Point about the hall effect. sometimes when you don't consider the exceptions you can be thrown for a loop. You are a great teacher
Thank you Paul for your great videos.
You are person not to forget in Auto Repair Works, Giving me hands on experience
You've come a long way baby|. Keep learning. You can most times determine pull up or pull down by viewing a wiring schematic from the fuse box to the electrical component and then the computer. good effort
Glad you mentioned the point about koeo reading and how i a high or low on the driveplate. Perfect as always. Thanks
Thank you Paul always good to watch your videos.
Terrific explanation once again Paul
Thank you very much! Let me know if you have any questions about it. Also watch my video on my channel page about the ebook and lecture videos.
Send me a pm or email me through my website. I have an offer for you
Thank you Jeffery
Very Educational, Thank U for sharing your knowledge Danner.
I like the teaching manner of ScannerDanner.
Thank you so much my friend your video is help full
Thanks again for the info.
That is completely up to you my friend. Where do you live? That may also be a factory as to which direction you go due to shipping costs.
Replaced both of the camshaft sensors on our Q45 fixed the knock sensor code. The part numbers at most auto parts stores are not the right part number. They can cross to the right number if you take them one.
Thank you Bentley!!
amazing vedeo sir very very nice your explanation very nice
Awesome! thanks Paul.
Yes, in this case the bypass test and further testing wasn't necessary, but what if the signal was fixed at 0 v? It was a procedure I have in my ebook and I wanted to show it. I promise you will find it useful in other situations.
Thanks for info!
yes, very good!
Absolutely my friend. It is on my radar to do that very thing.
In the mean time, have you checked out any of my lecture videos yet? As an eBook owner I will give you a sample of around 2 hours of material if you like. Send me a private message.
Hello dear Paul, it`s always a pleasure to see your videos. Thank you. I would like to ask if injector pulse or fuel pump relay PID can be used to identify if input signals are ok.
for sure, as a guide! If you have injector pulse but no spark, it is most likely not going to be a crank sensor issue
2002 Nissan Maxima 3.5
No crank/no start. No noise, just nothing.
New batery, cables, plugs and wires.
All fuses good and relays good except, did not check inhibitor relay. Have not checked starter for power yet.
Would a defected or bad inhibitor relay, cause a no crank?
Awesome video. Thanks a lot.
With sensor unplugged, measuring signal voltage, harness side, with the key on.
High volts (typically 5 to 12v) = pull down design.
Low volts (near 0v) = pull-up design
Thanks SD
Having Nissan Pull Up design
Checked it yesterday and the signal wire is having 5v with harness plugged or unplugged. Having weird fuel economy and hesitation on acceleration btw.
Where should I direct my diagnostic?
Thanks
It would be a pull-down design for sure. As stated in Section 2 and 21 in my book. The signal wire typically will range from 5 to 12 volts. Sensor unplugged and the signal fixed at 5 is clearly a 5 v pull-down design.
I love your great procedures ...doing the ckp bypass with starting attempt for see the RPM data PID because we can not see the RPM without CMP signal on some cars .
man you kill me by this procedures
I work on your webside and your book for absorbing every thing you said and you wrote .
But what about the inductive CKP ? how can we do the bypass test with it ?
It is not pull up or pull down design it produce its own signal
great video
good video my brother
Most systems use a "high resolution" crank sensor. Basically the computer watches and anticipates frequency (RPM) increases between cylinder firing events. When it sees the crankshaft slow down, this equals a misfire.
Hello sir, pls can u help, I currently have a no spark issue on same type of car now , I have injectors pulse but no Sparks , meanwhile I have speed Sensor signal when I view it in live data just that the computer is not Firing the spark plugs, I have run a continuity test on the signals wire from computer to spark plugs coil it all ok , what did u think will make the computer not to fire the plugs , thought the computer in this car is replace .
yes, sir. And doesn't it make you feel good when you can make the PCM react to a sensor signal that you think is bad? Agree with you again on the issue with this car, that we didn't need to do it. Very good thinking on your part my friend.
excellent video!
depends on your meter. The Vantage Pro min max feature of the voltmeter would catch it, most of them probably would not.
Nice video, wish I had that tool. I have the m37 with a no start, they replaced the CKP sensor and still didn't start so now they say its the ecu since they aren't seeing any rpms.
Did you fix it yet ?
On this particular Nissan product the CKP had 12 volts and the pull-up voltage was around 10 volts. On other Nissans with pull-up style CKP circuits, I've seen anywhere from 1.5 volt to 5 volt square wave signals. All had the 12 volt power supply. Is this just indicative of the type of CKP sensor used? Internal circuitry? And is the testing the same?
Great video Paul, thanks for sharing. Could you not have used the ignition timing PID to verify a cam signal?
a lot of factors i didnt think ,, nice :D
good video
Excellent video! I took my 2003 Infiniti QX4 to the dealer to diagnose the reason for the car cranks but won't start. It began with an ECU failure, which I replace with a used ECU purchased from eBay and also replaced the ICVA. Upon cranking, I got error codes P1610 & P1611 (NATS Initialization Failure & NATS ID Discord). I decided to replace the burned Chip in the ECU and re-installed back, but the engine did not start. The DTC scanner showed "No Power Train in DTC or Freeze Frame Stored" I am not a mechanic but have some understanding of how an engine works and how to test a few things. At this point I was out of my league so decided to take the car to the experts (The Dealer). Well, they called me back and said they possible cause was the Knock Sensor. Possible cause? I replied that I did not expect the Technician to do guess work but to diagnose the problem and they gave a bunch of reasons as to why they couldn't do it. The bottom line, I am waiting for a call back hoping that it was the Knock Sensor and avoid another guess diagnostic. After watching this video, I wonder if the dealer's Technicians are incompetent or plain lazy. Five STARS to Scannerdanner for this amazing video.
It is definitely not the knock sensor causing your car not to start. Ridiculous guess and that is all it was. They saw a code for the knock sensor and want to start there? Crazy.
The real truth is this dealer "tech" doesn't see cars this old and he doesn't know how to fix them because he is just a parts changer.
Thank you so much
Yeah. Forget the stealership!
Hey Paul very neat trick..i like lol...that being said can the magnet trick that another member used from your videos be used in here to?
EXCELLENT DIA-a-Knows its!!!!!
very nice!
Thank you for the video master you are great . I have same situation have Mazda mpv 2001 no spark no fuel cero fuel pump pressure , already put new ckp , have signals igt, gif, from pcm. Just notice that have 0 communication fro DLC to pcm. This is a van that already buy it like this no start. All fuse are good. I am trying to learn some mechanics so I suscribe to your Chanel already also got the book. Please help. Ckp is only two cables I was going to put ground. So I don’t know if I will fry the pcm. Thank you for helping me.
Not sure. Something with the operation of the MAF signal circuit but I wouldn't be able to tell you what and why this is done. Something to do some digging on for sure!
That's a neat trick with the test light. If it was a pull down circuit would the test light be connected to battery negative to get the same result?
Thank you
Thanks sir
The characteristics of the CKP with the wide gap in the square wave pattern is important in such cases of an engine change with a different year, possibly one year or two years different. If the characteristics of the replacement crank profile does not match what the PCM needs to see, the car will not start. This is where a good library of waveforms comes in handy. So if an engine is changed or a PCM is changed from a different year, make sure the same characteristics of CKP & CMP are the same.
Great stuff Paul. I had my car in at an Audi main dealership who changed both the fuel pressure sensor and fuel pump control module when the fault was a high pressure fuel pump. Came up with a P0089. Why don't they follow these kinds of procedures? I'm going to buy your book. Section two on inputs sounds interesting!
awesome thank you
How are you scannerdanner I'm a tech here in Houston tx. I would like to go to your school and learn the proper way of fixing a car, but with the funds and location that your school is at is pretty impossible. I already have your ebook, great book by the way. But in the near future would you ever consider teaching interactive online to teach the ones that cant make it out your way ?
Bushougoma, think of it like this, if a sensor has 4 wires such as a Hall Effect (3 wires) and a magnetic pick up (2 wires), they only share the ground, so the 5 wire sensor has become 4 with only the ground shared. Many ECM or PCM have multiple 5VRef outputs even if internally there is only one voltage regulator. This lowers the Amperage on one circuit wire as it may feed several 5VRef sensors so in your case the 5 wire sensor combo is only sharing the ground as the power may overload one wire
It is used to reduce radio frequency interference (RFI).
I have the same verus that Paul uses on the videos, it is good for me however on the shop the owner has the verus pro and locks a lot, the pro is faster than the one I have .
John. On this van they use three different fan relays and two different fan motors. There is a low and high speed fan operation. For low speed they actually run the fans in series to each other, then for high speed they are in parallel. I should do a video on this one, it would good.
Most likely the AC automatically commands high operation. My guess is only one fan works right?
ScannerDanner hi Paul, I have a 2088 Qx56 infinite and it will not start/ will not crank. I was driving home and I stop to the shop to pick up something I got back in the Qx56 and it will not start. Ever time I try starting the Qx56 it just keep showing a little red car with a key can you please help. I don't live in the states
If you had only done this diagnostic for the camshaft sensor. My 02 Q45 died on us while on the interstate but, it did restart after 5 minutes or so. We took it to an O'Reilly's and their scan tool said it was a camshaft sensor. Those are only $27 at Advance Auto which is where I usually buy my parts because their deals are so much better with coupon codes.
dynosaur did the fix it scanner might say cam codes when it a crank sencer
In bypassed systems as you described (where crank sensor go to the icm), you may or may not get an rpm with a bad icm, right? (ICM internal issue)You won't get an rpm for sure if you are missing power or ground. We were dealing with a no power to the icm issue at work with no rpm, last week.
@scannerdanner I had to this on 05 honda civic 1.7L cam sensor code.. Hard start . Well with key on feed was 12 signal was 0 , when I unplugged it signal only went to 5.. I was expecting to see higher voltage.. But I could not determine design pull up or down
I'm not a fan of backprobing wires by piercing them with needles as you have the potential for damage.
I would suggest dabbing the wire with liquid electrical tape at the pierce point when done.
Some CKP connectors are extremely difficult to access as well.
What is your opinion on using wire wrapping instead at the header of the ECM?
My system is a pull down design since without CKP connected/key on, signal shows 5V constant.
Would I connect a test light to ground for a bypass test? LED or incandescent light?
This is my exact car and I actually fixed this issue when I first got it, now I'm having some issue on the 5v system causing timing to slowly be pulled until 0° advance but only after warm.
The odds that scannerdanner has my exact car model (very obscure Infiniti) truly meant to be lol
Hey, it's you! I didn't see this until now. Glad you were able to fix it!
PAUL ...Wich one do you recomend to buy, ebook or the the hard copy version ?!! I NEED ADD A GOOD TOOL TO MY TOL BOX , THANKS IN ADVANCE
raimondszunda, if you look at a coaxial TV cable, there is a small wire sticking out from the center, if you disassemble the cable, just covering the center wire is some white insulation, then wrapped around this insulation is a mesh of silver colored wire, this mesh is the SHIELDing. A shield of metal acts as a barrier to electromagnatism or radio electromagnatism or stray voltages that you dont want to get onto your main line or the center wire. RFI or radio frequency interference is noise.
Hi Maestro, i ve watch several video of you doing the actual work and troubleshooting, you have all wiring diagrams of every car you fix. Where those come from sir?
Here you go
www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here/3757-need-service-info-check-here.html
I have the DIYer in mind with this thread from my forum
Is it possible to scope the crankshaft sensor in the engine compartment instead of under the car?
that is a good video
Thank you!
El Chemo93 yes no spark or rpm
Good question. No, that PID is an output command not an input signal. IT is what the computer wants the timing to be not what it is.
At the end of the video we see the resting position of the crank influences the high or low output at rest of the crankshaft position sensor.
If i didnt have a scope and instead If I measure the potential between signal and ground, am I right in thinking I should see the same behaviour when bumping the engine over a turn or 2 as done in the video?
I.e. in some cases I will see low or less than 100mv, and in others I will see high.
I understand this would be inexact - I could bump 5 times in a row and get the same reading even from a working sensor, it just depends where the reluctor ring on the flywheel stops compared to the hall effect sensor location.
exactly my friend. and you do not need to use the sensor ground, you can, but it is not necessary in this case. On some inputs you will want to use the sensor ground (cleaner signal on a scope, bias voltage to name a few)
What section of your book does most of the testing in this video is covered?
So in order to bypass a pull down hall effect is the contrary, uaing a test light connected to ground.??
you got it
Moving Up Diy yes test light to ground
so to clarify, whether pull up or pull down, 12vt +ve is introduced as trigger. Would sensor need to be tested for vt signal to ecu eg 5 vt and adjust supply vt accordingly?
+Peter datechmen I'm not sure what you are asking me? Can you rephrase your question? Thanks!
hi paul, mi doubt is if you are 100% sure that in the pull up designs hall sensors they all have a resistences inside of them that is going to alow me to do the by pass test giving groung to the signal with the connector plug, in a safe way without cooking the sensor or blowing the fuse?
That's why you use a test light and NOT a jumper wire. Also, these are input circuits you are signalling and there is very little danger in hurting them, if any.
hey, i have a battery from another car that i installed into my other car, the difference in cca's is 10 amps, would that prevent a car from starting? im dealing with a start no spark. i got power to all my coils and fuel injectors. so im a bit puzzled.
i recently did a timing job on the camshafts, regardless if it's low compression etc i figured the car should still have spark?
2:56 in you just finished going through engine data looking for cam and crank data pids, what about injection pulse? Is that a data pid you could look at while cranking?
I will rarely use the injector pulse width data parameter. Remember it is an output command, not an input signal. A computer can issue a command, but that doesn't mean it's actually happening. But using that data parameter for a no start situation? I suppose it could be one to add to the list of pids to look at, but there would be others ones (like rpm) that would be more important and useful. Too many variables with injector pulse width.
i would like your opinion about the verus . i have a solus ultra and vantage pro and i wanna trade it to the snap on guy for the verus pro ...but he said people aint really happy with those verus..can u pleases share your experience with this machine...thanks pleases raply
Just thought of something.... If the crank sensor is bad, will the fuel pump activate, or will the computer shut it down? My fuel pump comes on for about 15 seconds when I turn the key on. (I can hear it hum)
When trying to create a simulation for the rpm signal, cant you just backprobe the camshaft signal wire without trying t crank the car? So you touch the CKP and Camshaft signal wire the same time to get a reading ?
It cannot always be simulated
Hi Dan, can u use the verus to ck other system other than PGM.? Like srs or abs system.?
Milton Solis yes
Hi Paul, do you have any videos comparing cam and crank?
that is correct my friend but not on "electronic switches" like a hall-effect. The wiring diagram will not help with these.
Gud job
@scannerdanner in this picticular application.. Using a voltmeter in mid max range , connector unplugged double t-pin on signal wire.. One for volt metter and other for bypass.. Could u have capture the signal or is to fast for volt Mir volt metter
Notice the data PIDs Inj Pulse B1 and Inj Pulse B2 are fluctuating KOEO....very interesting that is.
@tom a Thanks man, but I remember scannerdanner saying if signal voltage is high its.pull up design , if voltage is low its pull down design.. So I thought... When I seen the 5 volts .. I couldn't determine rather thats low or high.. If would have went up to 12 volts as seen on feed... Then I could say its pull up... But 5 volts threw me off..
hello, hope you could help on infiniti as well, i use an fx 35 1st gen, and 2 of my coils keep on burning up, some, every 2 days, sometimes up to 1000km befor it fries out, my mechanic told me bad cam sensors could do that, though am thinking a low resistance on my coils or bad quality is the cause, what do u think?
+Rodriguez Guery if your system uses an external igniter then I would look towards that as the cause. It is unlikely to be an input problem unless your coils are firing without the engine running
thanks man, i'll just go ahead and buy all the sensors he asked me and see what happened next.
So what was the problem. Did you get it fixed .
Rodriguez Guery hey I have the fx35 same problem. Did you fix it?
Simpler solution: Got a ckp code? Just replace sensor first (99.9% of time it’s faulty anyways) and if that doesn’t work then check everything else..
where is best place i can get circuit diagrams i.e im looking for nissan micra k12 2007 wiring digram
Scanner danner I got a question 4 you a 03 Chevy venture cooling fans only work with ac on replaced relays and temp sensor have any suggestions thank you
Is it one of them crank sensor and the other one cam sensor positioning sensor
For sure. Watch this video "2004 Chrysler 3.3L Cam Sensor Problem (P0344, P0016)"
I am in overseas,how to purchase ebook and paperversion?
My 1995 Q45 will crank but not start. Do you think it has the same crank sensor as shown in your EXCELLENT video?
gort400 did you find out what it was?
I have not. My other vehicle needed immediate attention, so I had to fix it. The heat has been so oppressive, that working outside on a car is rough. i will get to it soon and give you an update. Thank You for checking on the status!
gort400 ok I’m having this same issue. And it’s driving me crazy.
I’m hoping I can get some answers I’m suspecting crank sensor aswell my car cranks like the beginning but it makes the sound like it wants to turnover but feels more like at point it will ignite the fuel is cut or reduced. Kinda like the car is protecting itself because it’s not reading something if that makes sense
You have to do some testing and find out what you're missing, otherwise I cannot help you.
@@ScannerDanner maybe this is more specific so when the car was running I never had serious issues I own a 370z so at idle I noticed my fuel trim on a scanner would flip from lean to rich really fast but not stay on one. At full throttle it would go into limp mode and not rev past 3500 I’ll pull over torn car off, fire it up boom symptoms gone. Now I never got a cel. The car prior had no issues. I dropped pan to see if there’s anything abnormal. Clean, checked valves they were clean aswell. So the only thing I saw that was strange is the Filipe trim. The fuel pump is new and injectors got sent out for ultrasonic cleaning and testing. The engine sounds healthy when cranking.
@@jao906 non of that is the testing that needs to be done for a car that is not starting. And "new" me absolutely nothing.
What is your fuel pressure? Do you have spark and injector pulse? What codes? All stuff that needs done for a no start
Ok ,thanks for clarification defently stain on my brain now...
I need help!!!!!!!!!!! I have 2007 Infiniti G35x the housing area for my crankshaft sensor was broken due to my drive shaft breaking. Therefore the crank sensor can not be mounted in place at all causing the car not to start. Is there anyway to bypass the sensor?
There absolutely is not. I'm sorry.
Is it safe to say that when you pull the connector off and you see a bias voltage on the signal wire that the PCM is good?
this is more of a wiring integrity test than it is a test to tell you that the computer is good
@@ScannerDanner Thanks Paul,I appreciate it!