Orioles pitcher Fernando Abad obstructed Blue Jays runner Lourdes Gurriel, but was it ejectable?
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- In the 6th inning of Friday's Toronto-Baltimore game, F1 Fernando Abad raised his right forearm into R2 Lourdes Gurriel as Gurriel attempted to score. Umpires called obstruction, but was it more? Article: www.closecalls...
It turns out the interpretation of this play-beyond obstruction type 2 (or Type B), which all rulesets agree on-depends on whether the play occurs in high school, college, or professional baseball.
In high school, NFHS Rule 3-3-1 would likely steer umpires toward a ruling of malicious contact, in which case the offending player would be ejected. NCAA 2-31 defines a flagrant collision in terms of a runner's malicious action, but umpires at that level too could employ common sense and deem that if the pitcher's actions were of a flagrant nature-fighting, for instance-disqualification could be appropriate.
Professional baseball, however, has no such rule on its books. OBR does not include the word "malicious" whatsoever and its unsporting or excessive collision rules pertain rather exclusively to plays at home plate with the catcher-runner interaction, or attempting to break up a play at second by evading the bona fide slide rule.
In other words, MLB seems to allow this unless umpires were to deem the pitcher specifically punched the runner or committed some other assaultive offense.
Could this have started earlier in the game? In the 2nd inning, Orioles manager Brandon Hyde yelled at Toronto pitcher Robbie Ray, who eventually returned the words, as Ray was on the mound.
Whereas NFHS and NCAA both contain provisions related to bench jockeying or unsportsmanlike interaction between members of opposing teams, OBR once again is more permissive and sets an unsportsmanlike conduct bar significantly higher than the lower levels.
At these lower levels, Hyde's unsporting conduct toward Ray may have necessitated umpire intervention, but at the Major League level, it would appear Park Avenue's stance is, for the most part, "let them fight. It's better for ratings."
I'm impressed by the fact Gurriel Jr. kept his calm. He could burst into anger, and create a bench-clearing. But he knew what was the best to keep the Jays productive (especially when they went to score 44 points in the next 48 hours)
Yeah, that should be Flagrant Unsportsmanlike Conduct of some kind and a toss, yeah.
Flagrant foul on the pitcher. Gurriel gets two free swings
Definitely should have been an ejection in my opinion. The only reason he wasn't ejected (and likely won't be suspended) is because the benches didn't clear. Players have been ejected and suspended for lesser offenses this season solely because it resulted in the benches clearing.
I agree
Oh just wait....October 1-3 in Toronto. If Toronto isn't still in the playoff hunt, expect retaliation.
Ejected & suspended!
Cause the league really do want those benches to clear first...
Because all major sports exercise a very specific agenda against Canadian sports franchises
That looks like an ejectable and suspendable offense to me. I think it’s dangerous conduct. I would send off the pitcher and Baltimore ‘s head coach.
In Rugby that's a send off for a shoulder charge. Clear ejection for me, the only way that collision happens is the pitcher doing it deliberately, and he had so much time and space to avoid it. Having a specific rule is irrelevant, the umpire under 8.01 D can disqualify any player for unsportsmanlike conduct, which smashing into an opposition runner deliberately is imo. Of course then you have an argument if Unsportsmanlike Conduct is solely down to the listed elements in Rule 6.04, but you can cover that by going back to 8.01 C, which says an umpire can rule on any point not specifically covered.
I love the O's but man that was a dirty ass play lol
"What are ya gonna do, Robbie?" B Hyde, Friday night
"Well, I think me and my teammates are gonna embarrass the hell outta your team the rest of the weekend!!" R-Ray and Blue Jays team-mates, Saturday & Sunday
Looks more "accidentally on purpose" to me than malicious, but hard to tell.
Where was that pitcher going? It wasn’t to back up anything over the 3rd base line. There wasn’t anything he could do there. He should have been running behind the catcher via an angle for an overthrow from the 3rd baseman.
Great video, I feel like the pitcher for the Orioles was trying to keep the runner from scoring so he intentionally knocked him down which in my opinion calls for an ejection but what can I say I'm not the Umpire in that situation great video once again!!!
Yea....i dont get accident from the obstruction play...ill put it like this i cant say if the pitcher was playing the ball ....but he knew where the runner was.
@@magicizaproblem I agree!!!
Pitcher eyed him down the whole time. Kind of hard not to eject him
@@jackjon7763 I saw jom boy cover the robbie ray part earlier today but the fact this happened it crazy there wasnt an ejection....it just sets the table for more stuff to go on with inner division rivals i guess. Blue jays are actually playing for something right here though.
@Karma is King Karma IS King. To the tune of 42 runs after this dirty ass play.
surely there has to be something in the rule book that would allow you to eject the pitcher here for malicious conduct. I mean if the pitcher took a swing at him instead I would hope he would get ejected. I dont see how this is any different. This was obviously not accidental.
IMO he did "take a swing at him." The pitcher clearly threw his elbow up at the runner. That's intent to make contact, not protect yourself from impact.
Orioles Manager: "You have bigger things to worry about than us"
Ray: "Says the man who will soon be unemployed, are you aware the trash talk isn't supposed to come from a bench boss whose team is 46-97?" 😂😂😂
Jays fan here so no motivation to defend Abad, but I don't believe there was malicious intent here. I think his initial move was towards the overthrown ball and then he was a deer in the headlights of the oncoming runner. Not knowing which way to go it became "brace for impact"
Accurate comment Robert. I'm a bit surprised by reading these other comments, the number of people that think this was intentional. Everyone who knows anything about baseball understands that there are interference rules. The pitcher had nothing to gain by intentionally knocking the runner down. It looks to me like both Gurriel and Abad had their eyes on the overthrown ball. If you're in a moment like that and you're looking at the ball, you're not focusing on a runner coming down the line. Your instinct is to go after the ball. Plus, Abad looks like he tried to jump back once he saw they were in a collision course with one another. Raising the arm is more a instinctual act to protect yourself, not a WWE cross-body block being applied, especially knowing there's going to be an interference call. Even the two trainers on the Blue Jays bench pointed out the obstruction. (i'm using interference and obstruction interchangeably here, not as a definitive term from the rule book). Kudos for your ability to not just want to spew more hate Robert!
Why was the bench coach allowed to distract the pitcher by yelling at him? In an era where the umpires eject players just for looking at someone wrong, I’m surprised the coach wasn’t tossed
Obstructed??? Straight out deliberatly targeted & body checked him! What a disgrace 🙄
Definitely seems like Abad wanted to knock him down
I can think of a couple football teams that might want that in their games this weekend. Although, then Abad would be flagged for Unsportsmanlike Conduct and risk ejection for targeting.
O's fan here and yeah it should be ejectable, that was a dirty ass play
My dude looks like a Treasure Troll
Dirty play, eject the pitcher and possible suspension imo.
That was a good block by Baltimore's left tackle.
The Ravens should sign him. They're hurting right now.
There's gotta be some history between those guys
Absolutely he should’ve been tossed
Completely disagree about malicious intent from the pitcher. It looks like Abad is trying to avoid him, but misjudged Gurriel Jr's path and speed so badly that they collided.
Jeese that's an elbow or even chraging/leaving your feet all day long in hockey haha
He not only blocked the runner, he also Dropped his forearm into him intentionally. Lol this isn’t even up for debate, this Def is an Ejection!
I'm surprised that there isn't a rule designed to protect players in the official rules....There aren't many instances where this is required but a blind-side block, going out of your way in a BASEBALL game, and collide with a runner? Maybe the player's CBA can fight for a useful change like this...
If MLB likes for teams to fight it out for ratings, why does intentionally hitting the batter with a thrown ball as retaliation qualify for ejection? (There is a HBP ejection from 3 days ago where the pitcher clearly aims to hit him on the butt, and gets tossed for it. Why the discrepancy?
Guess Abad was trying for the Ravens...
Also, Toronto got some degree of payback, getting back to back double-digit wins in today's double header. Should be interesting to how tomorrow plays out.
Spoiler alert....it did not go well for Mr. Hyde and his team on Sunday either.....and the final score could also have a football tie to it!
@@rc24caldwell19 Definitely. I had no idea MLB aired batting practice
absolutely... that pitcher ran into him on purpose.
Now bad blood? Did you watch them clear benches awhile ago lol
Poor sportsmanship on Abads part. It definitely was intentional. He should have been suspended for a few games. Coach has a big mouth. He sure quieted down after our Blue Jays blew the Orioles out of the park the rest of the weekend. 44 runs, what do have to say now Coach?
Robbie Ray thought the O's were calling out his pitches
I went back and watched, and it looks, shall we say, suspicious. First couple of innings, almost every time he's going to throw a slider, someone on the bench yells "Andele!" before the pitch, and the O's hitters would lay off. When I can sit in my living room and know what pitch is going to be thrown, there's something going on.
Anyone know where I can find complete footage of the first 3 innings?? It would be cool to watch now with this knowledge and see if they were calling everything or if there is a clear tell in Ray's approach
Pretty obvious there should be a suspension here.
I stand by my statement that machado was right vs Abad.
Glad to see Abad back in the majors but wtf was that? Dude was never that dirty in Oakland and I remember as a fan talking to him about our bouts with Manny Machado and the Royals, this was completely unjustified
MLB and Rob Manfred is a joke, they want a story like e so they want them to fight? First of all that pitcher absolutely meant to knock him down and should've been ejected immediately followed by a suspension. Toronto is actually in a playoff race and have a lot to still play for and the Orioles season was over months ago, seems to me the Orioles are mad for sucking so bad
Please fix the audio. You sound ridiculous. I like these videos, but listening to this is BRUTAL!!
This is a play were I think as officials we get too involved. No need for an ejection. It was ruled and handled properly. Yeah the Orioles pitcher gave him a good shot. Any official who is at the top of his game his going to diffuse the situation with his people skills. Any official who has officiated for any period of time has heard the term don't break into jail. Any ejection here is like a police officer writing a ticket for a guy going 56 in a 55. A misdemeanor maybe a FELONY definitely not.
Ejection. Obstruction B.
What are the other types of obstruction and their definitions? No mention of it in this video or the article on your site. Wish you guys would realize not everyone watching your channel is an umpire and we would love to have more context with these videos. In-depth explanations are highly appreciated. Didn't get it on the video so figured it'd be in the article. But not there either. Please provide very detailed analysis SOMEWHERE. Thanks.
I don’t disagree with the policy that umpires don’t eject players in situations like this. Players are used to fighting at the major league level, and if the umpire is forced to eject a player, it inserts him into the argument. I’d much rather have players fight* with each other than with the umpires, particularly if things get physical.
100% was intentional look at his eye sight line as he did it he wasn't watching to a throw
Pretty disgusting behaviour from that manager to seek a fight with the pitcher and then (presumably) incite his own to maliciously bump a runner...
Manager should be banned or at least suspended from the sport and that pitcher should be suspended. In any other sport that's a likely possibility but hey, it's major league baseball...
He saw him at the last second and tried to stop. It looks bad but I don’t think it was intentional.
The O's got the crap beat out them the next few games... including a massive come back by the Jays. Karma.
Where the fuck was Chuckles Montoyo here? He should be calling for the pitchers head.
That’s what happens when your team sucks. The coach runs his mouth and the pitchers throws a cheep shot. But in the end, their team still sucks.
The only offense here is gurriels hair wtf is that
Pitcher should have been ejected.
Of all the teams, Baltimore. The worst team in baseball over the last 10 years...if not longer. Funny how angry managers try to pinpoint others for their problems
huh? that doesn't even make sense. Robby Ray is the one who started the interaction with the Orioles because he thought they were verbally giving the batter a sign of what pitch was coming. This wasn't Hyde (the angry manager) pinpointing others for his problems. The fact that people come here and try to make up shit cracks me up.
The play wouldn’t matter the pitcher would need the ball
The fair punishment in this situation, since it didn't happen in-situ for Abad, is at least 2 starts.
Hyde was asking the umpire why time wasn’t called immediately because the batter/runner advanced all the way to 3rd base before the entire play ended.
Why would he ask why time wasn't called? There was no reason for time to be called.
@@alanhess9306 I think Gassy Jones' point is that perhaps the obstruction/interference could dictate the play dead, and thus prevent additional runners from advancing, but in my book, if your players want to bounce off of each other like a pinball machine and let runners advance, it should be allowed! LOL And I live outside of Baltimore.
@@nik040271 I don't understand his point about the batter-runner advancing to third base. Why should he not be allowed to advance is my question. Interference is always a dead ball because runners are not allowed to advance. On a type B obstruction the ball stays live.
He thought that once obstruction occurred, then time is automatically called like in Type A obstruction.
Interference is always an offensive action (other than “catcher’s interference”). Obstruction is always a defensive action. Don’t listen to the broadcasters as they really don’t have a clue of the rules.
Why are the Blue Jays playing a Low A team?
Because there in the same division and they have to play them😐
It might have been flagrant, but I am also imagining it's possible that as the pitcher closed toward the base line, the runner progressing was obstructing his view of the ball (he may have never been able to pick up the ball) and was not sure if it was being thrown toward him, or not, thus the collision.
Pitcher wasn't looking at the ball, but the runner the whole way.
@@Subangelis Yes, but if the ball was being hidden from the pitcher's view the whole time, then the angle of his look would be the same. I'm not sure we have a good enough camera angle to know for sure but why would the pitcher lay down a block on purpose, what would he stand to gain?
@@nspro931 Except it wasn't. Ball in one spot, runner running. Just how long do you think it would be hidden?
@@Subangelis Small ball in background moving, large runner in foreground running, pitcher running, maybe never even saw the ball but was trying to pick it up against chaotic background, saw runner on collision course, too late. Or what do you think he was trying to accomplish? Is this pitcher known for these kinds of shenanigans?
@@Subangelis except he wasn't.... We saw his eyes for a spilt second...
For a nothing series, it sure ain't boring.
Could it fall under unsportsmanlike conduct
Trying to piece something from basically nothing. I’m not a fan of either team, but trying to turn this into something flagrant is foolishness. The pitcher got caught in a bad spot, nothing else. Objectively watch the video. Sure, he defensively lowered his shoulder, but that was in a protective manner. Watch the rest of his body. He wasn’t trying to lay the guy out. 🤷♂️
malicious intent by the pitcher
What the hell is on his head?!
Lots of fun with these teams last two days
Abad was playing the puck..nothing to see here.
there's no logical reason to do this... the two got a beef?
Hyde is a joke
No way I have an ejection here. Pitcher is clearly going to back up the throw and doesn’t see Gurriel until he’s trying to protect himself. This is accidental
@@archie15900 he’s initially running to back up the throw, and he looks up and plants to protect himself once he realizes it’s too late to avoid the collision. I might be wrong, but I honestly can’t believe this many people think this is intentional
So few people attend Os games that you dont even need field mics
Orioles should be moved to Montreal
Arm, thanks, but no thanks.
Toronto's pitcher accused the Oriole dug out of alerting the batter to when he was going to through his slider. He gets a wiff on his slider 55% of the time on average in Baltimore they only wiff 35% of the time.
"Andale!"
Yep, that's what started it all... Saw this video yesterday...
Hyde is classless
"MLB loves when teams fight"?! That's the first time I've heard that! Rather, MLB hates it when they fight, and do everything in their book to prevent it. In the old days it was was different, but now it's warnings and ejections at the drop of a hat. Just not sure why this comment was made.
Absolutely should have been ejected, fined, and he should be suspended a few games. Intentional shoulder block cheap shot.
Stupid rule
Unintelligent
Try using the dictionary when you make up the rules
It's almost like there was a purpose for that. Luckily, the pitcher wasn't ejected. He was focused on the runner. Someone was getting at Robbie Ray's head causing him to look at the Orioles dugout earlier in the game.
Another reason to get rid of the DH. Give him a chance to answer for his actions.
Wtf? That will never happen, if anything the DH will be universal in a few years.
These types of comments are all drawn from hype. A pitcher wouldn't do something that he too wouldn't be willing to accept, if you think that he would, you've never played anything at a competitive level. Don Drysdale and Bob Gibson were two NL pitchers notorious for taking claim of a portion of the plate for themselves, often brushing back batters or knocking them down, or hitting them. They both pitched in the NL, but also at a time when the DH wasn't yet in the AL (though present at the tail end of Gibson's career).
100% intentional and IMO warrants an ejection. No room for that mess in the MLB.
Was this a 12 yo travel ball game?
Orioles would lose to the Bad News Bears
That was intentional
What a dirty pitcher
Gurriels hair should have been ejected.
Is this a guy or girl talking? Asking for a friend.
the only thing that should be Ejected in this game is that dudes hair - come on man
Bush league stuff from the O’s.
lolol...give him a trophy for bad acting
I'm not a huge Montoya fan. With so much talent and best offence in Baseball and we are fighting for a wildcard. Hmm...makes you wonder. And then the incident with Hyde and Ray. If i was the Jays manager, i would defend Ray and actually come out of the bench, stand up for 1 of my players and tell Hyde to STFU. That's you're number 1 pitcher being verbally attacked and the whole Jays team see their manager does not have their back.
To be fair, Ray started the confrontation by accusing the Orioles of giving signs on his pitches. Hyde was responding to Ray's accusation. You don't start a confrontation and then have someone else tell the person you started it with, to STFU! LOL And I've never been a big Blue Jay fan, being a Baltimore native, but now that we don't have the shenanigans going on between Jose Bautista and Darren O'Day, I can appreciate the Blue Jay line up. They will be lucky if they don't end up with 4 - 100 RBI guys this year. Major potent offense, when you've got Grichuk putting up serviceable numbers in the 8 hole.
@@nik040271 Still don't agree. Hyde went too far and thats why he apologized to everyone. Still think that players take care of players and coaches take care of coaches. Yeah Grichuk hitting eight is really strong. I just hope Springer stays healthy.
Didn’t know the Jays signed a raccoon
fym by “raccoon”
You know, I was really pissed off when I first saw that and thought it was foul play. After watching the replay and considering the situation, I don't think he did that on purpose. He was just being dumb and completely unaware of his surroundings.
Man Child Latins have ruined baseball!!!
special rules for the Jays
What makes you think it is a "special rule" for the Jays?
@@alanhess9306 years and years of watching Jays games son…
@@raymondclouston6255 No, explain how rules are different for the Jays little boy.....
@@alanhess9306 without context you won’t understand….you haven’t been alive long enough …literally…
@@raymondclouston6255 I would wager I have been around longer than you, and for certain, I have spent a lot more time on baseball diamonds than you have. Tell me all about the special rules there are for the Jays.
LOL 😂🤣
I like seeing that girls make cool baseball content videos too. Keep it up young woman
46-96
@@1NobleGiant wow
it’s a dude but it’s just that he pitched down his voice😂
@@joeshipley666 Baltimore lost to Toronto Sunday 22-7
@@1NobleGiant I know lol, we are horrible
Only play that was less defensible was when P.O.S. Clemens threw a broken bat vampire killer at Piazza.
weeeeeeell, there was that time that Delmon Young threw the bat and hit the minor league umpire, after being ejected.....at least Clemens bat-throw missed Piazza. But still a shitty play by Clemens. There was also the A-Rod play where he swung at the players glove to intentionally knock the ball out of his glove, while running down the base line. Oh, and lets not forget the play where Reggie Jackson purposely stuck his hip out to get hit with the thrown ball during a run down. This collision wasn't even close to any of those, this was an accidental collision in which the pitcher knows that if he interferes/obstructs the runner he's going to be awarded home plate anyway. The pitcher had nothing to gain here.