@@boris2997it means the Celtics have a pretty easy path, there’s been an imbalance in the conferences since Jordan retired. The west has been better for 25 years
the conferences being uneven have been a thing way longer than a decade like in 2010 all 8 Western Conference teams won at least 50 games whereas only 4 Eastern Conference teams reached 50 wins
To so it's never been this bad is an overstatement. As a Nets fan during the 2000's the balance between West and East was so busted. You basically had the Lakers and Spurs destroying everyone.
Exactly you have 38 win playoff teams and 48 win teams not even making it in the west. Today without the play in factored into it the heat are a 45 win team so I think it’s not as bad as it seems but expansion is definitely the way to go
Sorry, should he say in modern history or as bad as the worst era in modern history in the early 2000s? These have the competitiveness of exhibition games and the players are way better. The league sucked 20 years ago and had nowhere the talent it does now which is the worst part.
1998 East - 5 50 win teams 1997 East - 6 50 win teams 1996 East - 3 50 win teams 1993 East - 3 50 win teams 1992 East - 4 50 win teams 1991 East - 3 50 win teams MJ went 6-0 vs the west BTW
@@TyBrezzy11having 3-4 50 win teams in a conference is not very impressive. I’ll give you 97 and 98, but it’s not that crazy considering it was the expansion era with trash expansion teams. There are only 2 50+ win teams in the east this year because there is more parity in the league than ever. The last 5 years in the finals have been different teams from both conferences expect for the warriors in 2019 and 2022, which were drastically different teams. That isn’t happening in fhe 80s and 90s when there was limited player movement and expansion going on, which stacked a handful of teams while leaving the rest of the competition in the dust. We can’t just look at team win totals and determine how good the team was… context is required
Yeah that would keep 15 teams in the west and 17 in the east. I agree Minnesota would move over Memphis. Memphis is more east geographically but has easier travel to texas/Denver/new Orleans. Whereas Minnesota has quick flights to Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana etc
Minnesota moving to the central division will not make any money for the league so it’s probably gonna New Orleans and Memphis split up the Atlantic and southeast is more likely
@@TheJalinmyles But for geography and travel time it makes the most sense. Memphis and New Orleans are culturally more Southwest around the Arkansas and Texas area than they are to the Southeast. Minnesota gets to have a fresh start in a new conference and they get to be closer to teams in the Central division because they travel the longest in the Western Conference.
I'm pretty much sure it's a DRAFT issue. Check how many times East got the nr 1. draft pick and who these players were (especially what and whom Philly drafted) compared to Nr. 1 picks from the west. Also, East is weak from the management point of view. They're just missing picks or mishandle generational talents
two teams in the East (76ers and the Cavs) both had multiple number one picks since 2011. Cavs got Kyrie and Bennet (a worthy number one and a bust in a bad draft), and the 76ers got Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz (a guy touted as the next LeBron with a great skill set and a bust THEY TRADED UP TO GET), also got Joel at the third pick (so not all bad on the luck angle). Boston also had 2 top three picks and got all nba guys in Brown and Tatum. Orlando got Paolo at number one and are now a playoff team. I think the west has better management but at the same time, they’ve had busts as well. It’s not like the east didn’t have opportunities, I just think the West’s superior competitiveness for decades has bred organizations that are more serious than their eastern counterparts.
I feel this year the drop off in talent in the East isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. As of today, the 8th seed Lakers (46-35) and the 8th seed Heat (45-36) have nearly the same record. If we dropped conferences, the Warriors, Kings, and Lakers would still be fighting for Play-In positions with those records. The records aren't significantly worse until we start talking about the 9th/10th seed.
Except the 45 win heat would be tie for 10th in the west this year and the Atlanta hawks with 38 win being 10th in the east would not be in the play in at all in the west
@riccanov what I said was true at the time I posted. The records are so close in both the East and the West that a single win or lose can have a team jump 2-3 spots. Regardless, we have to go all the way down to the 9th and 10th seeds before we find a team that really has an advantage by being in the East. If Emiid, Haliburton, and D. Mitch were healthy, there could have seen multiple 50-win teams in the East as well this year.
@delz5863 yes the 76ers, Knicks, and Celtics all are in the same division and have to play each other a good number of times. They all are/close to 50 win teams.
The problem with the East is that many of the larger markets have had incompetent leadership besides Miami and Boston. Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, and New York have all looked terrible and have struggled to entice any stars in FA. KD and Irving both said they chose Brooklyn to avoid the bigger markets.
Exactly last year the 3 seed won 48 games out west 🤦🏽♂️ 4 seed cavs would’ve been 2 seed in the west. Suns won 45 games as a 4 seed last year Miami 8 seed won 44
ur over thinking it. Its really only a problem with people who expose themselves to the nba standings page everyday. To most watchers no one really cares about conferences and specifically seeing conference parody. Most watchers just except that there are good teams and bad teams and this season most of them are out west.
@@BettingWithDocthat not true, there’s way more talent in the west. Jokic, Luka, Shai, Ant are all top 5 in the MVP race, who from the East is in that discussion? Maybe Giannis or Embiid before he got hurt? Also the young teams in the west like te Spurs and Rockets are set to make a big improvement while the non playoff teams in the east are floundering with no future to speak of.
@@MaximusR93not really embid Would have won if he was healthy giannis and Tatum was just top 5 burson was also just top 5 in MVP votes pacers are a young team they should better both of them Next year magic are already better than both of them
Could try change the play-in tournament to be based on overall record. This way, if a conference is stronger, then would have more teams in post season but still not change things way too much.
Hot take, the East isn’t that much “worse” than the West, the west just doesn’t have to do western road trips with weird time zones, playing a game at midnight ET is harder than a western team having to play a game that is at 3pm PT also the travel is easier for teams going out east than teams going out west. Just my opinion
This has never really been a debate In my opinion. Sure on paper the West has been more stacked since 1999, but 20 of those finals the conference was represented by the same 3 teams Laker, Spurs or Warriors. And is their respective playoff runs they only had 4 WCF go 7 games. Also in the 5 Finals those teams don’t appear The East is 3-2. Yes there has been horrible management in the East post Jordan that some teams still haven’t recovered and outside of Miami and New York who is going to the East willingly. At the end of the day no matter how “stacked” either conference is there are only 3 or 4 true contenders and Miami since they do whatever they want.
Could have the top 4-6 teams from each conference secure playoff spots and then the remaining 4-8 slots go to teams with best records regardless of conference.
This has a lot to do with marketting as well. Teams in the west are marketted a lot more and thus attract more talent, bring in more money for high wages, better coaching staff etc. Think about how many players in the past 5 years the Lakers have traded for vs an eastern team like the Bucks.
This same conversation has been going on for almost 30 years, and it has definitely been worse. Honestly I've seen more balance over the past ten years than in the 2000s. 2002, for example, had the Nets as the top seed in the East with 49 wins.
East teams have been winning okay in the past 5 years, with Milwaukee and Toronto grabbing one each. But in the last 20 years there has been a huge issue with the west taking most finals.
I really hope the NBA eliminates the conferences at some point. Just take the best 16 teams to the playoffs, regardless of where they are located. It would allow for much more intriguing matchups
The players will complain about travel and would never accept. Plus the East GMs will all say no bc that’ll decrease their odds of making the PO. I wish it would happen but it never will sadly
You can transition into it. - guarantee the top 6 seeds stay the same and have a different version of the Play-In where the Rockets make it over the Hawks. - do it alongside NBA expansion (when Vegas and Seattle would make the west worse and Minnesota makes the East better) It's not like the East is always gonna be the worse conference.
The simple solution is to have the top 16 teams make the playoffs but the east teams would never agree to it because their bad teama would be left out. In reality, this has always been the case and it swaps from conference to conference every 10-15 years but it hasn't happened since the 2000s because players prefer to play in the west than the east.
How about have the top five seeds on both sides be guaranteed entry into the playoffs, and have the last playoff spots determined by record from who is left regardless of conference?
If you did the top 16 team right now it would be split 8v8 with the west conference holding most of the higher seeds but looking at the matchups I think it would shape up to be a great playoffs. There are some tied records so those could be play in games or have a draft to have a play in games like the championship league in soccer.
why not just place them based solely off standings, I genuinely wonder how many times the nba finals have been the 2 best teams in the nba rather than the top teams from each conference, probably can count the times on a single hand
You got me curious so I had to check. In the first 24 seasons (I have a bit of running around to do so I couldn’t finish yet) it was finals match up between the best record 9 times. Also, special shout out to 1951 and 1968 both years where it was possible for the best records to match up in the finals, but neither team made it.
Who said the championship in any sport is supposed to be won by "the best" team? The league is rigged, and it's people like you that drive that rigging.
@@qt3dot14ish maybe, I don’t doubt it’s rigged for big market teams, but considering how the league has had Milwaukee bucks and the Denver nuggets win in 2 out of the last 3 years I find it hard to believe it’s always rigged, stop being so cynical, it’s not in the best interest of the league to rig it every year and some years it’s clear, some not so much, every pro sport riggs it in some way and if your gonna be like that, don’t watch it
Though there are significantly more good teams in the west, I do believe that my 4 favs for threats in the East (Celtics Bucks Knicks 76ers) can hold their own with any of the big teams in the west, and they pretty much all went 1-1 in the regular season with those big teams, so I still think it’s anyone’s shot.
First thing they can do is to make every team play as often against each other in the league. The conference and divisions are a relic because traveling took a lot of time and was really expensive. that isnt the case anymore so remove that with the expansion. If they add 4 teams playing each team 2 times makes for 66 games. This gives more room for "in season tournament" being separate games. Especially if you do this with the play in too. Make it best out of 3. Then give the play in spots outside of the traditional top 8 to the best 4 teams outside the traditional east/west divide. Watchable (and good teams) get back to around 82 games before the playoffs. This way you fix: 1. less chance to rest during the season because games matter more (66 vs 82 games) 2. Screwed record for home court as for example the Celtics got a easier path to home court in the finals this season 3. Winning in a strong conference is rewarded and losing is still punished in a weak conference. 4. the "cup" gets its real attention it deserves and isn't a double punishment if you loose like it it now. 5. Resting good players is harder to do as you split up important games. So there is a chance you can remove the 80 % played rule (would be 52 if you do a 66 game regular season) Separate fix: A player is available for the whole all star weekend or not at all. Don't want to do the dunk contest; dont be a all star. Maybe with a limit on the number of total career events (er event). For example max 2 times forced dunk contest.
I think this is a problem that’s often blown out of proportion. Yes, generally the west has been better than the east since 2000. But only three times has the West won >60% of their match ups (01, 04(the largest disparity), and 2014) but also 2022 and 2023 both actually had the East win more of the head to head games. In the last 10 seasons we were within 5% of 500 of between the east and west as well.
Not just 10, more like 25, every single year since 1999 (MJ retirement), The West has been favored to win the finals (only exceptions are the 2011 and 2013 Heat)
@@pinbarbecue1100the closest Western team to the T Wolves is Denver. There are like 4 or 5 Eastern conference teams that are closer to the Wolves than their closest conference rival
@@jasonfire3434 Actually its OKC, but regardless the overall point is correct. Minnesota is closer to every team in the Central division than they are to the closest team in their current division.
i think honestly, the easiest and best way to help out the lower tier teams is the draft. So in this draft or next, all lottery teams will have 2 1st round picks, all playoff teams wont have any, unless from previous trades done. So Detroit should have a top 3 pick right, and the would also get a 2nd 1st round pick, around pick #16. getting 2 quality draft picks should help them get better faster.
I'm not fully convinced this would be better, it would destroy rivalries, but you would definitely get more competitive series and a more competitive final just having the top 16 teams making the playoffs. Or top 20 and then the playin teams will play the 1-4 seeds
They wouldn't do it because of travel time and I don't think people understand how big the United States is. Plus the owners in the Eastern Conference would literally fire the commissioner just for thinking that.
Yeah this isn’t the right idea at all. Imagine you had Knicks-Sixers in round 1 while also having Warriors-Celtics. That would’ve been completely unfair to the teams playing a cross-country series while the others are traveling like 100 miles
The NBA & NFL west teams are always better offensively and more finesse. The east is rough drag down defense beat down on each other. It’s always been like that.
It’s simple. The West teams have just drafted better, have had better front offices, and had better coaching. How can you make teams be competent? The ownership group does the hiring. 🤷
You way overestimate the WC. The only difference between the EC and the WC, since 1999, has just been a couple of transactions and lucky breaks. Their domination comes down to only 4 players and one coach. The Lakers scammed Kobe from the Hornets, the Lakers paid for Shaq, Duncan, rigged or not, ended up in San Antonia, Steph (whom the Wolves passed up in the draft...TWICE) crossed paths with Klay/Dray/Mark Jackson, and LBJ offset one of his three championships from the EC, and went west and won one for the Lakers. Do the math, Duncan 5, Shaq/Kobe/referees 3/ Kobe without Shaq 2/Steph 4, = 14 championships since 1999. In fact, since 1999 there have only been between 11-14 league altering players (and one coach), period: 1. Duncan 5 (6) 2. Shaq 4 (5) 3. Kobe 5 (6) 4. Wade 3 (5) 5. Garnett 1 (2) 6. Dirk 1 (2) 7. LBJ 4 (10) 8. Steph (Klay/Dray/M Jackson) 4 (6) 9. Kawhi 2 (2) 10. Giannis 1 (1) 11. Jokic 1 (1) 1999 - 2023 = 24 possible championships, and 48 possible finals appearances total. Of 24 possible championship teams, ALL of them except the 2004 Pistons had at least one of those eleven players. 41 of those 48 possible finals appearances had at least two of those eleven players. 5 of those championships had a team with two of those players. 3 of those championships had both teams with two of those players. Only 11 of those 24 finals had only one team with only one of those 11 players. Of those 11 finals, the team without any of those eleven players lost the series. Of 48 possible finals appearances, those eleven players account for 46 actual appearances. Of the 48 possible finals appearances, SIX OF THOSE PLAYERS ACCOUNT FOR THIRY EIGHT POSSIBLE APPEARANCES, 79%!!! Of 24 possible championship appearance opportunities, FOUR PLAYERS ACCOUNTED FOR TWENTY-TWO APPEARANCES, 92%!!!!! Duncan was drafted by the Spurs. (D-WC) (Chips 5/6, all WC) Shaq was drafted by the Magic. (D-EC) (Chips 4/5, 3 WC, 1EC) Kobe was drafted by the Hornets and then traded to the Lakers. (D-W, Traded E2W) (Chips 5/6, all WC) Wade was drafted by the Heat. (D-EC) (Chips 3/5, all EC) Garnett was drafted by the Wolves (but won his title in the EC). (D-W, Traded W2E) (Chips 1/2, both EC) Dirk was drafted by the Mavs. (D-WC) (Chips 1/2, both WC) LBJ was drafted by the Cavs (D-EC) (Chips 4/10, 3 in the EC, 1 in the WC) Steph was drafted by the Warriors, but only after the Wolves passed on him twice. (D-WC) Chips 4/6, all WC) Kawhi was drafted by the Pacers and won a title from both conferences. (D-EC, Traded E2W, then W2E) (Chips 2/2, 1 WC, 1 EC) Giannis was drafted by the Bucks. (D-EC) (Chips 1/1, EC) Still in his prime Jokic was drafted by the Nuggets. (D-WC) (Chips 1/1, WC) Still in his prime 8 of those studs were drafted by the team for which they made the majority, or all, of their current success. The Lakers scammed the Hornets. Shaq was paid for. Kawhi arrived in San Antonio, and Toronto, via trades. Duncan/Shaq/LBJ who were all drafted with the first pick, which means the other conference had zero chance to pick that player, and those three players account for 13 of the possible championships, THREE PLAYERS ACCOUNT FOR 62% OF CHAMPIONSHIPS OVER THAT TIME PERIOD, and ACCOUNT FOR 21 of the possible championship 48 appearances - 44% OF ALL POSSIBLE CHAMPIONSHIP APPEARANCES OVER THAT SAME TIME PERIOD. You say the west "drafted better". This is true. But your tone seems to indicate that you think the west drafted significantly better than the east, which is not really true. Had Shaq stayed with the Magic, Kobe would have probably won zero championships, while Shaq could have easily won three with the Magic. Had the Lakers not had the refs in their pockets for their entire 3-peat, the EC could very well have won several more championships. Had an EC team won the first pick in Duncan's draft year, the entire NBA history would be different. Had the Hornets held onto Kobe, he never would have been paired with Shaq. Had the Wolves drafted Steph...., you should now get the picture. Of the 11 players, eight of those were big (we could debate Kawhi's classification), two were "medium" (Kobe/Wade) and only one was smallish (Steph-an all-time anomaly shooter AND an anomaly rebounder for his size) AND all eleven had premium contracts, ie extended protections from the refs.) Of the 11, only three were drafted outside the top 7, ironically the last three on the list (Kawhi/Giannis/Jokic) It was just a couple of transactions that has the league history as it is today. It comes down to just eleven players (since 1999), and a few flips of the coin determined which of those eleven ended up in which conference. It's a razor-thin margin as had just one of Steph/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe ended up/stayed in the EC, from a championship perspective, the EC/WC would have been dead even since 1999.
My idea will be to take the top 6 of each conference, and the remaining 4 spots open to any team that win the most regardless of conferences. Or play in can be arranged among the best 8 teams after the top 12 teams (6 from each conf.) being selected out.
Same LEASTern conference during the "Lebron" era. The peak Eastern conference was from 89 to 99, where East teams have winning records against West teams. Their play styles also differ, East being recognized for defense, and West for fire power. The East started getting old and from 2001 to current is just terrible. Although they have a short run Pistons and Boston but they are too old even before they can dominate
The weird thing this year is that the Northwest Division has the #2, #3, and #4 teams in the NBA... And they had to play each other 4 times... If Denver only had to play OKC and Minnesota twice they would probably have several more wins. And as it stands right now all 4 play-in teams will be from the Pacific Division. Just odd fact, not saying any of this means anything in the long term.
You CANNOT have season games scheduled the way they are and then take the top 16 teams. Yes travel and tv deals are major factors too, but you need to change how the season is structured.
I agree. They need to give Seattle, Vegas, and Mexico City a team, and move the Grizzlies and Pelicans to the east. Another thing that can be considered is adding a North and South conference so that there can be 4 divisions and split up the teams that way, This would also be in line with the association's plans to add more teams. And also with more divisions, they can change the allstar game into a tournament format.
Adding 2 expansion teams in the West, which would require a lot of good teams, losing possible key players. And a good team like Minnesota, Memphis, or the Pelicans going to the East. Would balance things out.
This has always been an issue I think it’s cuz historically expansion franchises are usually east teams. I think adding Seattle and Vegas to the west and throwing the grizzlies to the east would help the balance a bit
Top 20 teams instead of 10 West + 10 East would only add Houston to the bottom 8 play-in series and remove Atlanta, Suns would come out and another team from the East would go in. Last years NBA finalists are currently 8th in the East (45/36) .. 8th in the West is (46/35). It's been much worse in the recent past.
The draft is the main issue, almost every time there is a generational talent a west team gets the number 1 pick, at times when that team had low odds too (Pelicans 12 and 20 come to mind)
I don’t think we’re having this conversation if there wasn’t a race for the first seed. The 2/3 seeds and the play in second spots are the only actual difference in conference
I'd say it goes beyond the last 10 years. The West has been stronger overall since the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. Of course, there are individual years that hasn't been the case, but for 20+ years it's been the norm to see teams with losing records making the playoffs/play-in in the East. Going back 20 years, you had Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, Kings, Trailblazers, etc always being competitive, then fast forward some years and you had the Dantoni Suns, Yao/McGrady Rockets, Carmello/AI Nuggets, Lob City Clippers, OKC, etc. And in the last 10+ years, you get Harden/CP3 Rockets, the Warriors, Timberwolves, and even Pelicans (along with the usual teams) all doing well at various points. The East had whatever team Lebron was on, the Celtics, and eventually the Bucks. You had 1 off teams like the Kawai Raptors, but it's been very top heavy with a huge drop-off.
First, they should add maybe 1 more roster spot (east teams should use this for a glue/veteran player) or even another Two way contract. Then should add compensation draft picks AFTER each round (mainly for teams who had to trade max contract players or let walk, or even released their former 1st round pick from 3+ years ago). It would spice things up and make some good senior college players get drafted. Teams that have a player have to have a season ending injury should be given a IR spot like the NFL teams, so they can get another veteran to influence young players or take swings on projects. Maybe even that every team that stays at or under the salary cap gets a compensator draft pick or extra 2.5-5 mil cap space. Lastly, add like 4 more G-League teams and more games, but 2 of them be ran by the NBA and be full of veterans and veteran coaches to give even more challenges and development to the G-league. Lastly continue to explore in season tournaments with again, draft picks, MLE, or extra rosters spots paid by NBA as a part of the prizes to motivate younger teams to try (or give draft capital for them to trade to starving teams). East would eventually benefit from something like this. The only issue is the west could get richer from any of this too
Also, NBA and players should agree on pop up practice and coaching evaluations from successful former players, coaches and GMs to hold crappy coaches, GMs and owners accountable. This way an “evaluating” party can help owners or GMs make better mid season adjustments or make the tougher decisions sooner rather than later. And just thought of this, start making some contracts that are just way to high not be fully guaranteed and based off performance and playoff success. This way players won’t phone in some of their performances or the one year wonder affecting a team for years
For the tournaments, they can have all east and all west, and a loser’s tournament that includes all teams that did not make the playoffs the year before. The only trick is to schedule all of this before hand. Maybe even a mid year tournament for teams that are under .500 at the start of the tournament. Prizes should always be to give the winning teams some prize that gives them more opportunities to improve.
Adding more than 1 or 2 expansion teams would greatly dilute the product. There's already a handful of teams with a dearth of talent, and they want to add more teams??
It is no coincidence. No one wants to play at Detroit, Charlotte, Washington, Cleveland, Indiana, Atlanta and Toronto. While the west has only handful of teams that no one wants to play for, and new york is much of a lesser market than LA in the recent years. The west has bigger market teams, and even if the big eastern markets will be more competent, the west will continue to have an edge, as long as players are in control of where they are going to play. Only the draft can make a high profile showtime players like Zion or Ja play for small market teams
This was the same in the 2000s. West had Lakers, Spurs, Nash’s Suns, Dirk’s Mavs, the CWebb Kings teams. East had ragtag Pistons, Nets, young LeBron, Young Wade.
We don't need expansion, making the playoffs seeded 1-16 would fix a lot of issues. Let the division winners get an automatic bid and the rest of the best records get in.
The league needs to get rid of conferences, and for the travel issues, allow the team with home court advantage to choose who they want to play, keep the play in tournament but in order for teams in the 9-10 seed to qualify they have to be within 5 games of the standings with the 7-8 seed records. Lastly what's happening this season is unacceptable. The Rockets are likely to finish with a 500 record and not even crack the play in, the worst three teams in the league (record wise) are Eastern Conference Teams, make lottery odds the same for the 6 worst teams in the league to prevent tanking cause it's still going on.
The imbalance is caused by the bottom being worse at the better conference for years teams like the Suns, Timberwolves, Spurs, etc had better chances at getting a top picks. Coupled with the LA teams getting players worming their way there because NBA players love LA.
Since 99-00, the east has won the head to head against the west a total of 3 times. Admittedly, the east won the head to head in 21-22 and 22-23, but it appears as though the balance of power is shifting back to the west this year. This definitely at least was a real issue in the 20 years since Jordan's retirement and it looks as though it may continue.
Can’t really do conferences not having a part in playoffs without completely redoing the schedule so everyone plays everyone an even (or as close to even as possible) number of times otherwise the teams in the easier conference would have inflated records by playing the bad teams more often. You’d basically have to remove conferences entirely for all purposes which would lead to more travel but that could be accounted for in scheduling if they do it right.
4:22 Sorry, but it just makes so much more sense to move Minnesota to the Central division. I'm not even a T-Wolves fan, but I'm willing to die on this hill. Minnesota is closer to every team in the Central Division than they are OKC the closest team in their current division.
I've been watching NBA basketball since the Jordan days; my thoughts and observation on the West v East argument is western teams are more willing to experiment and flesh out new concepts (7 seconds or less, pace and space, 3pt revolution, the point center) whereas I see a more traditional/ conservative approach in the east.
That's actually a pretty accurate assessment. I would just add that each conference has been stuck on their particular business model since Magic/Bird. In that time period, if you had a plodding team in the WC, you couldn't even pretend to contend with the Lakers, and if you had a smallish flash-and-dash team in the EC, you couldn't survive Boston. So each of the other teams in those conferences at that time, HAD to build their teams to contend with the conference bully and couldn't be concerned about "winning a championship"(ie, the bully in the opposing conference). Switching sports, this is the reason that the Steelers couldn't beat the Patriots in the playoffs. Brady and company could get by with a smurf-sized team in their division because their division was small and terrible, so even though they were a smallish team (at some positions), over the course of a full regular season, they didn't take near the physical beat down that the Steelers had to endure to make the same playoffs. Conversely, the Steelers had to be built to survive the Black-and-Blue division, so when the playoffs arrived the Steelers were beaten down, and a slower team anyway, whereas the Patriots were generally fresh and healthy. The Patriots kind of had a choice of how to build their team because their division was so horrible, but the Steelers HAD to be built a certain way just to physically survive their division. Back to basketball: So ever since Bird/Magic, the respective conferences have been stuck chasing the conference bully. ie, if you were not huge, you couldn't beat LBJ, and if you weren't "quick" you couldn't beat Steph, etc., still a mirror image of the Bird/Magic era.
@@qt3dot14ish I like the NFL analogy but I don't think it applies here because by that logic the east should have way more titles considering how much of a gauntlet the west has been for 25 years and the title disparity is 16-8 in favor of the west since Jordan's 98 retirement. Look at Ben Simmons' archetype. He's a 6'9" athletic defensive minded playmaker without an outside shot, who does he sound like? Magic; and Magic probably would've failed as an NBA player if he wasn't allowed to play to his strengths, which is what Philly and Brooklyn didn't understand in handling his development. We consider Magic to be arguably the greatest point guard of all time, yet in his 13 year career he averaged over 20 ppg in a season 4x. Would anybody consider him a failure for that?
Priority in draft picks for the weaker conference previous year. Just compare the draft picks last years. The west is insane with Luka, Ja, Zion, A. Edwards, Wemby etc.
The east should get two teams from either the pelicans, wolves, or grizzlies. West gets 4 expansion teams in Seattle, las Vegas, mexico City, and kansas city or somewhere else.
The Western Conference winner will be more battle tested for a championship than the easy road the Celtics possibly had. It's probably why Jordan's East gave him the type of competition to test his teams for championships when they did eventually break through the East.
It’s pretty obvious. Most of the best players in the east went to the west and the 2 best players are having issues. Embiid has been injured, and Giannis team got gutted.
Even though some of them have less of an impact now part of the west feeling stronger could be because the east keep trading away stars for no stars in return. Ex. Harden, Westbrook, Beal, Durant, CP3, Kyrie, etc. The only team that I could think of that traded a star to west and got a star back is Indy. The only star for no star trades I can think of from west to east are like KG, Ray, Melo(this was a fleece though), and Blake.
Per standings today. Season series matchups with the position each team is in their respective conferences Celtics/OKC 1-1 Bucks/Wolves 1-1 Knicks/Nuggets 1-1 Cavs/Clippers 1-1 Magic/Mavs 2-0 Dallas Sixers/Pelicans 2-0 Pels Suns/Pacers 1-1 Heat/Lakers 2-0 Miami Bulls/Kings 1-1 Hawks/Warriors 1-1 Obviously this doesn’t tell the whole story, but looks like the two conferences are evenly matched.
I get it, but even with injuries, the 8th place team in the ECF is going to finish 10 games above .500. The Celtics are very likely to play either the Sixers or Heat, which is nuts for a mid-60s win team. It’s more that the bad teams in the ECF are really bad
I like moving Memphis and New Orleans to the East, and adding Seattle/Las Vegas, making them choose from a team's 3rd best player down to make decent, not dynastic teams. It helps in 2K until the retirements come, then it's all East for a while lol. Bron/Steph/KD all go well before the next East titan does.
Simple solution. The top 6 team in the east and the top 6 team in the west automatically make the playoff. The playin based on win-lose, regardless of conferences.
2 reasons the West is ALWAYS going to have a recruiting advantage. 1. The weather. Keep in mind, the best players in the league can live anywhere they want, they can afford property at any price, and they will never have to worry about being taxed to death. The weather on the West Coast means that a lot of role-players are willing to take a salary-cut to play there and set up their families there, and when you are getting max either way, you might as well get max somewhere you would like to live the rest of your life (like California). Good Weather Cities: East Orlando and Miami (Ignoring Hurricanes) West Sacramento, Los Angeles, Los Angeles (again), San Francisco borderline: New Orleans (Ignoring Hurricanes), Houston, San Antonio, Dallas Bad weather Cities: East Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, and the East Coast is all borderline West: Denver, Minnesota, and Portland is kinda borderline 2. Time Zones. East Coast NBA fans can tell you, a lot of those late games on the West Coast, it's hard to stay up for if you've got to be up early in the morning. It's much harder for Eastern Conference teams to go to away games on the West Coast and START playing at 10:30 Eastern (game ending after midnight) several times a year than it is for a Western team to go to the East and play an early game at 10:30 AM Pacific a couple times a year. Both have their drawbacks, but the drawback to being Eastern Conference is clearly worse.
Remember, much of the west is expansion teams with ownership that has different values and expectations.. many of the old east teams are family businesses at the end of the day
Let's get something clear about conferences, I think we should keep the Eastern and Western Conference, but they should make it a point to have divisions matter; so, it could be easier to schedule games. Plus Eastern Conference owners would basically fire the NBA Commissioner for even thinking that. It's also a logistics nightmare.
Its all about the money and the nba is banking big and so are the players. Team salaries doesn't seem to have an affect by east and west. When you throw out the crazy salaries of the LA teams
Love to see a straight up 18 best records, 15-18 have a play in. I don't think travel is that big a deal, most the teams will be in the West anyway. Lol
its been waaaaaay longer than 10 years bro lol this been going back since the kobe and sahq days in the early 2000s... you look young so i wont give you hell lol (tho the 2020s have been more east power until this year in my opiniion)
it's crazy. Even in the case of the celtics, the last time I looked (like a month ago, idk about now given they've taken their foots off the gas), less than 40% of their games played were against the west, yet half of their losses were to west teams. I still think they'd be the #1 seed if they were a west team, but I don't think they're winning 60 games. the east is pathetic from 2 to 15.
Doubt this would ever actually happen, but surprised nobody has ever suggested randomized conferences like the AFC and NFC in the NFL or the AL and NL in the MLB
Why would the NBA do dumm stuff just because the other sports leagues are doing dumm stuff? Smaller divisions build more passion for the local teams, save on travel expenses, saves wear and tear on the athletes bodies, builds excitement as 6 teams in "first place" is way more marketable than 2 teams in "first place", plus, in general, sport is not about idiotic randomness. One of the reasons that NBA viewership has gone down in the US is because the NBA has already over-homogenized the division and conferences. The reason is that gamblers don't care about teams, only stats, and the overseas viewership, which dwarfs us viewership, doesn't care about localized divisions. All that stuff you are suggesting has zero purpose.
If I was in the West I would want out, the west is stacked and will be much easier to make a play-off run in the east, won't be surprised if some free agents makes the journey east
It also causes the schedule to suck. Magic and Miami get to beat up on the hawks, hornets, and the wizards because they are in the same division they play a ton. Meanwhile Suns, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Golden State all are in the same division beating up on each other a ton during the season. Considering there isn’t any focus on division in the NBA and travel has become easier, I think they need to balance the schedule to where every team plays each other a set amount of times
How about the top 6 teams of both conferences get in the playoffs in their respective conferences. Then take the best 4 records of the remaining teams, regardless of conference, and fill in the 7th and 8th seeds.
They should add the next 2 expansion teams to Seattle and Vegas (which is definitely going to happen), then move the Grizzlies and Pels to the east, because that would shake things up
The only team that would make the play in this year if it was whole league seeding is Houston that's it. They have a 1 game lead on Chicago and a 4 game on Atlanta. Atlanta out Houston in is the only difference that would occur.
Crazy that the East has 1 60-win team and a bunch of 40-win teams while the West has a bunch of 50 win teams.
That doesn't mean anything when it comes to playoffs
The east could’ve had 2 60 win teams if Embiid didn’t miss 2 months of basketball.
@@boris2997it means the Celtics have a pretty easy path, there’s been an imbalance in the conferences since Jordan retired. The west has been better for 25 years
@@boris2997why do you think LeBron made the finals out of the East 8 times in a row and had a 3-5 record doing so?
@@MaximusR93 yeah it worked great for them last year getting beat by a play in team
the conferences being uneven have been a thing way longer than a decade like in 2010 all 8 Western Conference teams won at least 50 games whereas only 4 Eastern Conference teams reached 50 wins
No this started in the late 90s during the bulls 2nd 3 peat.....the main cause was da expansion teams
@@boymande yeah but my point shows a good amount more than a decade still
Spurs and Lakers won 9 out of 12 years from 1999-2010
I think the East started to fall behind right after Michael Jordan Retired with the bulls
@@IcyGoat11I think it fell during the 90s. Don’t get me wrong the bulls were great but the rest of the east wasn’t top tier
To so it's never been this bad is an overstatement. As a Nets fan during the 2000's the balance between West and East was so busted. You basically had the Lakers and Spurs destroying everyone.
Exactly you have 38 win playoff teams and 48 win teams not even making it in the west. Today without the play in factored into it the heat are a 45 win team so I think it’s not as bad as it seems but expansion is definitely the way to go
Sorry, should he say in modern history or as bad as the worst era in modern history in the early 2000s? These have the competitiveness of exhibition games and the players are way better. The league sucked 20 years ago and had nowhere the talent it does now which is the worst part.
@@MYNAMEISGARYThe league was way better 20 years ago 😂
@@facelessandnamelessim gonna take a guess you were 14 y/o 20 years ago, or you are 14 now 😅
@@GoldudeMK been watching bball since the 80s. I swear these youngins just say anything
It's not a decade long problem. Western conference has been more dominant since early 2000s when Bulls dynasty ended and Lakers were dominating.
West superiority goes back to theost-Jordan era
*Post Jordan era lol
Jordan era the east was better 😭😭
1998 East - 5 50 win teams
1997 East - 6 50 win teams
1996 East - 3 50 win teams
1993 East - 3 50 win teams
1992 East - 4 50 win teams
1991 East - 3 50 win teams
MJ went 6-0 vs the west BTW
@@TyBrezzy11 that WAS the Jordan era, and he only had to play 1 Western team. Dunno what point you’re trying to make
@@TyBrezzy11having 3-4 50 win teams in a conference is not very impressive. I’ll give you 97 and 98, but it’s not that crazy considering it was the expansion era with trash expansion teams. There are only 2 50+ win teams in the east this year because there is more parity in the league than ever. The last 5 years in the finals have been different teams from both conferences expect for the warriors in 2019 and 2022, which were drastically different teams. That isn’t happening in fhe 80s and 90s when there was limited player movement and expansion going on, which stacked a handful of teams while leaving the rest of the competition in the dust. We can’t just look at team win totals and determine how good the team was… context is required
Memphis and Minnesota comes to the east and the west gets two new teams in Vegas and Seattle
If you're doing 32 teams, only one of the teams from out west has to go east and that would have to be Minnesota.
Minny makes more sense than memphis to the east IMO.
Yeah that would keep 15 teams in the west and 17 in the east. I agree Minnesota would move over Memphis.
Memphis is more east geographically but has easier travel to texas/Denver/new Orleans.
Whereas Minnesota has quick flights to Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana etc
Minnesota moving to the central division will not make any money for the league so it’s probably gonna New Orleans and Memphis split up the Atlantic and southeast is more likely
@@TheJalinmyles But for geography and travel time it makes the most sense. Memphis and New Orleans are culturally more Southwest around the Arkansas and Texas area than they are to the Southeast. Minnesota gets to have a fresh start in a new conference and they get to be closer to teams in the Central division because they travel the longest in the Western Conference.
I'm pretty much sure it's a DRAFT issue.
Check how many times East got the nr 1. draft pick and who these players were (especially what and whom Philly drafted) compared to Nr. 1 picks from the west.
Also, East is weak from the management point of view. They're just missing picks or mishandle generational talents
Free agency, alliances and weather. Rs
Fr, I feel like the east have been screwed over the past few seasons
two teams in the East (76ers and the Cavs) both had multiple number one picks since 2011. Cavs got Kyrie and Bennet (a worthy number one and a bust in a bad draft), and the 76ers got Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz (a guy touted as the next LeBron with a great skill set and a bust THEY TRADED UP TO GET), also got Joel at the third pick (so not all bad on the luck angle). Boston also had 2 top three picks and got all nba guys in Brown and Tatum. Orlando got Paolo at number one and are now a playoff team. I think the west has better management but at the same time, they’ve had busts as well. It’s not like the east didn’t have opportunities, I just think the West’s superior competitiveness for decades has bred organizations that are more serious than their eastern counterparts.
@@LS-pv4dhheavy on the weather, the east has a LOT of states where almost nobody wants to live.
I forgot the Cavs got Wiggins at #1 too.
I feel this year the drop off in talent in the East isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. As of today, the 8th seed Lakers (46-35) and the 8th seed Heat (45-36) have nearly the same record. If we dropped conferences, the Warriors, Kings, and Lakers would still be fighting for Play-In positions with those records. The records aren't significantly worse until we start talking about the 9th/10th seed.
Except the 45 win heat would be tie for 10th in the west this year and the Atlanta hawks with 38 win being 10th in the east would not be in the play in at all in the west
@riccanov what I said was true at the time I posted. The records are so close in both the East and the West that a single win or lose can have a team jump 2-3 spots. Regardless, we have to go all the way down to the 9th and 10th seeds before we find a team that really has an advantage by being in the East. If Emiid, Haliburton, and D. Mitch were healthy, there could have seen multiple 50-win teams in the East as well this year.
Are you including the fact that west teams have to face west teams more often?
@delz5863 yes the 76ers, Knicks, and Celtics all are in the same division and have to play each other a good number of times. They all are/close to 50 win teams.
bro west got a way harder schedule than the east
The problem with the East is that many of the larger markets have had incompetent leadership besides Miami and Boston. Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, and New York have all looked terrible and have struggled to entice any stars in FA. KD and Irving both said they chose Brooklyn to avoid the bigger markets.
I’m mean last year the East was the tougher conference in terms of standings. It’s really not a big deal
Exactly last year the 3 seed won 48 games out west 🤦🏽♂️ 4 seed cavs would’ve been 2 seed in the west. Suns won 45 games as a 4 seed last year Miami 8 seed won 44
@@gaminggod3212The west has a lot more competition, thus the reason some teams would have less wins.
@@gaminggod3212 they're just picking and choosing seasons to complain about, dumb asf
there shouldn't be conferences anyway. just lump them together. it doesn't matter anyway
It matters a ton for logistics during the season.
ur over thinking it. Its really only a problem with people who expose themselves to the nba standings page everyday. To most watchers no one really cares about conferences and specifically seeing conference parody. Most watchers just except that there are good teams and bad teams and this season most of them are out west.
Yeap. Thats why western teams have more wins. I reality, more talent is in the east.
@@BettingWithDocthat not true, there’s way more talent in the west. Jokic, Luka, Shai, Ant are all top 5 in the MVP race, who from the East is in that discussion? Maybe Giannis or Embiid before he got hurt? Also the young teams in the west like te Spurs and Rockets are set to make a big improvement while the non playoff teams in the east are floundering with no future to speak of.
@@MaximusR93not really embid Would have won if he was healthy giannis and Tatum was just top 5 burson was also just top 5 in MVP votes pacers are a young team they should better both of them Next year magic are already better than both of them
no
ur underthinking it
Could try change the play-in tournament to be based on overall record.
This way, if a conference is stronger, then would have more teams in post season but still not change things way too much.
Hot take, the East isn’t that much “worse” than the West, the west just doesn’t have to do western road trips with weird time zones, playing a game at midnight ET is harder than a western team having to play a game that is at 3pm PT also the travel is easier for teams going out east than teams going out west. Just my opinion
This has never really been a debate In my opinion. Sure on paper the West has been more stacked since 1999, but 20 of those finals the conference was represented by the same 3 teams Laker, Spurs or Warriors. And is their respective playoff runs they only had 4 WCF go 7 games. Also in the 5 Finals those teams don’t appear The East is 3-2. Yes there has been horrible management in the East post Jordan that some teams still haven’t recovered and outside of Miami and New York who is going to the East willingly. At the end of the day no matter how “stacked” either conference is there are only 3 or 4 true contenders and Miami since they do whatever they want.
Could have the top 4-6 teams from each conference secure playoff spots and then the remaining 4-8 slots go to teams with best records regardless of conference.
Why would the league do any of that dumm stuff? There is zero to be gained by implementing any of this stupid stuff you people are suggesting.
This has a lot to do with marketting as well. Teams in the west are marketted a lot more and thus attract more talent, bring in more money for high wages, better coaching staff etc. Think about how many players in the past 5 years the Lakers have traded for vs an eastern team like the Bucks.
This same conversation has been going on for almost 30 years, and it has definitely been worse. Honestly I've seen more balance over the past ten years than in the 2000s. 2002, for example, had the Nets as the top seed in the East with 49 wins.
East was better record wise last year amongst playoff teams and in 2019-2020
Lol west has always been better
East teams have been winning okay in the past 5 years, with Milwaukee and Toronto grabbing one each. But in the last 20 years there has been a huge issue with the west taking most finals.
I really hope the NBA eliminates the conferences at some point. Just take the best 16 teams to the playoffs, regardless of where they are located. It would allow for much more intriguing matchups
The players will complain about travel and would never accept. Plus the East GMs will all say no bc that’ll decrease their odds of making the PO. I wish it would happen but it never will sadly
That would never happen and I hope that doesn't happen.
You can transition into it.
- guarantee the top 6 seeds stay the same and have a different version of the Play-In where the Rockets make it over the Hawks.
- do it alongside NBA expansion (when Vegas and Seattle would make the west worse and Minnesota makes the East better)
It's not like the East is always gonna be the worse conference.
@@ckqi don't know. A lot of Western teams are in the southern portion of the country so as far as weather goes the West has an advantage.
i agree with that
The simple solution is to have the top 16 teams make the playoffs but the east teams would never agree to it because their bad teama would be left out.
In reality, this has always been the case and it swaps from conference to conference every 10-15 years but it hasn't happened since the 2000s because players prefer to play in the west than the east.
How about have the top five seeds on both sides be guaranteed entry into the playoffs, and have the last playoff spots determined by record from who is left regardless of conference?
If you did the top 16 team right now it would be split 8v8 with the west conference holding most of the higher seeds but looking at the matchups I think it would shape up to be a great playoffs. There are some tied records so those could be play in games or have a draft to have a play in games like the championship league in soccer.
NBA is going to expand with teams in Seattle and Vegas and then have the shift of the Pelicans and the Grizzlies to the East to even things out
Eastern conference has been crazy...I remember the western conference was very similar
why not just place them based solely off standings, I genuinely wonder how many times the nba finals have been the 2 best teams in the nba rather than the top teams from each conference, probably can count the times on a single hand
I wish they’d change the format…
@@facelessandnameless they shouldve changed it in either 2001 or 2008 or 2012 or 2015
You got me curious so I had to check. In the first 24 seasons (I have a bit of running around to do so I couldn’t finish yet) it was finals match up between the best record 9 times.
Also, special shout out to 1951 and 1968 both years where it was possible for the best records to match up in the finals, but neither team made it.
Who said the championship in any sport is supposed to be won by "the best" team?
The league is rigged, and it's people like you that drive that rigging.
@@qt3dot14ish maybe, I don’t doubt it’s rigged for big market teams, but considering how the league has had Milwaukee bucks and the Denver nuggets win in 2 out of the last 3 years I find it hard to believe it’s always rigged, stop being so cynical, it’s not in the best interest of the league to rig it every year and some years it’s clear, some not so much, every pro sport riggs it in some way and if your gonna be like that, don’t watch it
Though there are significantly more good teams in the west, I do believe that my 4 favs for threats in the East (Celtics Bucks Knicks 76ers) can hold their own with any of the big teams in the west, and they pretty much all went 1-1 in the regular season with those big teams, so I still think it’s anyone’s shot.
First thing they can do is to make every team play as often against each other in the league. The conference and divisions are a relic because traveling took a lot of time and was really expensive. that isnt the case anymore so remove that with the expansion. If they add 4 teams playing each team 2 times makes for 66 games. This gives more room for "in season tournament" being separate games. Especially if you do this with the play in too. Make it best out of 3. Then give the play in spots outside of the traditional top 8 to the best 4 teams outside the traditional east/west divide. Watchable (and good teams) get back to around 82 games before the playoffs.
This way you fix:
1. less chance to rest during the season because games matter more (66 vs 82 games)
2. Screwed record for home court as for example the Celtics got a easier path to home court in the finals this season
3. Winning in a strong conference is rewarded and losing is still punished in a weak conference.
4. the "cup" gets its real attention it deserves and isn't a double punishment if you loose like it it now.
5. Resting good players is harder to do as you split up important games. So there is a chance you can remove the 80 % played rule (would be 52 if you do a 66 game regular season)
Separate fix:
A player is available for the whole all star weekend or not at all. Don't want to do the dunk contest; dont be a all star. Maybe with a limit on the number of total career events (er event). For example max 2 times forced dunk contest.
I think this is a problem that’s often blown out of proportion.
Yes, generally the west has been better than the east since 2000. But only three times has the West won >60% of their match ups (01, 04(the largest disparity), and 2014) but also 2022 and 2023 both actually had the East win more of the head to head games. In the last 10 seasons we were within 5% of 500 of between the east and west as well.
Not just 10, more like 25, every single year since 1999 (MJ retirement),
The West has been favored to win the finals (only exceptions are the 2011 and 2013 Heat)
Da expansion teams r a big cause of this....Dat and the cold weather teams in high tax states
My expansion/realignment ideo: add Seattle and Vegas to the West, Move Minnesota to the East
Move grizzlies and Pelicans because both teams close to the East than Minnesota
@@pinbarbecue1100the closest Western team to the T Wolves is Denver. There are like 4 or 5 Eastern conference teams that are closer to the Wolves than their closest conference rival
@@jasonfire3434 Actually its OKC, but regardless the overall point is correct. Minnesota is closer to every team in the Central division than they are to the closest team in their current division.
"seattle expansion" is basically the *CELTICS SHAQ* of expansion teams
i think honestly, the easiest and best way to help out the lower tier teams is the draft. So in this draft or next, all lottery teams will have 2 1st round picks, all playoff teams wont have any, unless from previous trades done. So Detroit should have a top 3 pick right, and the would also get a 2nd 1st round pick, around pick #16. getting 2 quality draft picks should help them get better faster.
I'm not fully convinced this would be better, it would destroy rivalries, but you would definitely get more competitive series and a more competitive final just having the top 16 teams making the playoffs. Or top 20 and then the playin teams will play the 1-4 seeds
They should do 1-16 playoff seeding
They wouldn't do it because of travel time and I don't think people understand how big the United States is. Plus the owners in the Eastern Conference would literally fire the commissioner just for thinking that.
Yeah this isn’t the right idea at all. Imagine you had Knicks-Sixers in round 1 while also having Warriors-Celtics. That would’ve been completely unfair to the teams playing a cross-country series while the others are traveling like 100 miles
Why do that at all? Why not just give the NBA championship to the team with the best record and forgo the playoffs completely?
The NBA & NFL west teams are always better offensively and more finesse. The east is rough drag down defense beat down on each other. It’s always been like that.
This hasn't been the case for 10 years, but for 26.
Since Jordan's retirement in 1998:
Eastern victory: 8
Western victory : 17
It’s simple. The West teams have just drafted better, have had better front offices, and had better coaching. How can you make teams be competent? The ownership group does the hiring. 🤷
You way overestimate the WC.
The only difference between the EC and the WC, since 1999, has just been a couple of transactions and lucky breaks.
Their domination comes down to only 4 players and one coach. The Lakers scammed Kobe from the Hornets, the Lakers paid for Shaq, Duncan, rigged or not, ended up in San Antonia, Steph (whom the Wolves passed up in the draft...TWICE) crossed paths with Klay/Dray/Mark Jackson, and LBJ offset one of his three championships from the EC, and went west and won one for the Lakers.
Do the math, Duncan 5, Shaq/Kobe/referees 3/ Kobe without Shaq 2/Steph 4, = 14 championships since 1999.
In fact, since 1999 there have only been between 11-14 league altering players (and one coach), period:
1. Duncan 5 (6)
2. Shaq 4 (5)
3. Kobe 5 (6)
4. Wade 3 (5)
5. Garnett 1 (2)
6. Dirk 1 (2)
7. LBJ 4 (10)
8. Steph (Klay/Dray/M Jackson) 4 (6)
9. Kawhi 2 (2)
10. Giannis 1 (1)
11. Jokic 1 (1)
1999 - 2023 = 24 possible championships, and 48 possible finals appearances total.
Of 24 possible championship teams, ALL of them except the 2004 Pistons had at least one of those eleven players.
41 of those 48 possible finals appearances had at least two of those eleven players.
5 of those championships had a team with two of those players.
3 of those championships had both teams with two of those players.
Only 11 of those 24 finals had only one team with only one of those 11 players.
Of those 11 finals, the team without any of those eleven players lost the series.
Of 48 possible finals appearances, those eleven players account for 46 actual appearances.
Of the 48 possible finals appearances, SIX OF THOSE PLAYERS ACCOUNT FOR THIRY EIGHT POSSIBLE APPEARANCES, 79%!!!
Of 24 possible championship appearance opportunities, FOUR PLAYERS ACCOUNTED FOR TWENTY-TWO APPEARANCES, 92%!!!!!
Duncan was drafted by the Spurs. (D-WC) (Chips 5/6, all WC)
Shaq was drafted by the Magic. (D-EC) (Chips 4/5, 3 WC, 1EC)
Kobe was drafted by the Hornets and then traded to the Lakers. (D-W, Traded E2W) (Chips 5/6, all WC)
Wade was drafted by the Heat. (D-EC) (Chips 3/5, all EC)
Garnett was drafted by the Wolves (but won his title in the EC). (D-W, Traded W2E) (Chips 1/2, both EC)
Dirk was drafted by the Mavs. (D-WC) (Chips 1/2, both WC)
LBJ was drafted by the Cavs (D-EC) (Chips 4/10, 3 in the EC, 1 in the WC)
Steph was drafted by the Warriors, but only after the Wolves passed on him twice. (D-WC) Chips 4/6, all WC)
Kawhi was drafted by the Pacers and won a title from both conferences. (D-EC, Traded E2W, then W2E) (Chips 2/2, 1 WC, 1 EC)
Giannis was drafted by the Bucks. (D-EC) (Chips 1/1, EC) Still in his prime
Jokic was drafted by the Nuggets. (D-WC) (Chips 1/1, WC) Still in his prime
8 of those studs were drafted by the team for which they made the majority, or all, of their current success.
The Lakers scammed the Hornets.
Shaq was paid for.
Kawhi arrived in San Antonio, and Toronto, via trades.
Duncan/Shaq/LBJ who were all drafted with the first pick, which means the other conference had zero chance to pick that player, and those three players account for 13 of the possible championships, THREE PLAYERS ACCOUNT FOR 62% OF CHAMPIONSHIPS OVER THAT TIME PERIOD, and ACCOUNT FOR 21 of the possible championship 48 appearances - 44% OF ALL POSSIBLE CHAMPIONSHIP APPEARANCES OVER THAT SAME TIME PERIOD.
You say the west "drafted better". This is true. But your tone seems to indicate that you think the west drafted significantly better than the east, which is not really true.
Had Shaq stayed with the Magic, Kobe would have probably won zero championships, while Shaq could have easily won three with the Magic. Had the Lakers not had the refs in their pockets for their entire 3-peat, the EC could very well have won several more championships. Had an EC team won the first pick in Duncan's draft year, the entire NBA history would be different. Had the Hornets held onto Kobe, he never would have been paired with Shaq. Had the Wolves drafted Steph...., you should now get the picture.
Of the 11 players, eight of those were big (we could debate Kawhi's classification), two were "medium" (Kobe/Wade) and only one was smallish (Steph-an all-time anomaly shooter AND an anomaly rebounder for his size) AND all eleven had premium contracts, ie extended protections from the refs.)
Of the 11, only three were drafted outside the top 7, ironically the last three on the list (Kawhi/Giannis/Jokic)
It was just a couple of transactions that has the league history as it is today.
It comes down to just eleven players (since 1999), and a few flips of the coin determined which of those eleven ended up in which conference.
It's a razor-thin margin as had just one of Steph/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe ended up/stayed in the EC, from a championship perspective, the EC/WC would have been dead even since 1999.
My idea will be to take the top 6 of each conference, and the remaining 4 spots open to any team that win the most regardless of conferences. Or play in can be arranged among the best 8 teams after the top 12 teams (6 from each conf.) being selected out.
And your point to any of that?
Why would they change the format that has contributed to their global success?
Quite literally add 4 west expansion teams and move Nola and Memphis to the East
Agreed
Yeah, the quality of play is already terrible so let's add four more really bad teams to water-down the product even more, that'll teach us!
@@qt3dot14ish tfym the west is stacked as is
Give 2 good teams to the east and call it game lol
Same LEASTern conference during the "Lebron" era. The peak Eastern conference was from 89 to 99, where East teams have winning records against West teams. Their play styles also differ, East being recognized for defense, and West for fire power. The East started getting old and from 2001 to current is just terrible. Although they have a short run Pistons and Boston but they are too old even before they can dominate
It’s been longer than 10 years. In 2010, the 8th seed in the west won 50 games.
Minnesota should move to East is Vegas gets a team!!
Nope sorry mn needs a team dummy
This has been a thing since the 2000s the east has generally had only like 3 50+ win teams
The weird thing this year is that the Northwest Division has the #2, #3, and #4 teams in the NBA...
And they had to play each other 4 times... If Denver only had to play OKC and Minnesota twice they would probably have several more wins.
And as it stands right now all 4 play-in teams will be from the Pacific Division.
Just odd fact, not saying any of this means anything in the long term.
You CANNOT have season games scheduled the way they are and then take the top 16 teams.
Yes travel and tv deals are major factors too, but you need to change how the season is structured.
I agree. They need to give Seattle, Vegas, and Mexico City a team, and move the Grizzlies and Pelicans to the east. Another thing that can be considered is adding a North and South conference so that there can be 4 divisions and split up the teams that way, This would also be in line with the association's plans to add more teams. And also with more divisions, they can change the allstar game into a tournament format.
17 east 16 west?
Adding 2 expansion teams in the West, which would require a lot of good teams, losing possible key players. And a good team like Minnesota, Memphis, or the Pelicans going to the East. Would balance things out.
Pelicans and Minnesota should be East! Idk about Memphis tbh
This has always been an issue I think it’s cuz historically expansion franchises are usually east teams. I think adding Seattle and Vegas to the west and throwing the grizzlies to the east would help the balance a bit
Seattle, Vegas... And where else? Not a lot of places that would support an NBA team.
Top 20 teams instead of 10 West + 10 East would only add Houston to the bottom 8 play-in series and remove Atlanta, Suns would come out and another team from the East would go in. Last years NBA finalists are currently 8th in the East (45/36) .. 8th in the West is (46/35). It's been much worse in the recent past.
Theoretically both the West and East top teams may get bounced in the first round.
Boston vs Miami
OKC/MINN/DENVER vs GSW
The draft is the main issue, almost every time there is a generational talent a west team gets the number 1 pick, at times when that team had low odds too (Pelicans 12 and 20 come to mind)
I don’t think we’re having this conversation if there wasn’t a race for the first seed. The 2/3 seeds and the play in second spots are the only actual difference in conference
I'd say it goes beyond the last 10 years. The West has been stronger overall since the Kobe/Shaq Lakers.
Of course, there are individual years that hasn't been the case, but for 20+ years it's been the norm to see teams with losing records making the playoffs/play-in in the East.
Going back 20 years, you had Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, Kings, Trailblazers, etc always being competitive, then fast forward some years and you had the Dantoni Suns, Yao/McGrady Rockets, Carmello/AI Nuggets, Lob City Clippers, OKC, etc.
And in the last 10+ years, you get Harden/CP3 Rockets, the Warriors, Timberwolves, and even Pelicans (along with the usual teams) all doing well at various points.
The East had whatever team Lebron was on, the Celtics, and eventually the Bucks. You had 1 off teams like the Kawai Raptors, but it's been very top heavy with a huge drop-off.
Memphis and Minnesota can just be in the east
First, they should add maybe 1 more roster spot (east teams should use this for a glue/veteran player) or even another Two way contract. Then should add compensation draft picks AFTER each round (mainly for teams who had to trade max contract players or let walk, or even released their former 1st round pick from 3+ years ago). It would spice things up and make some good senior college players get drafted. Teams that have a player have to have a season ending injury should be given a IR spot like the NFL teams, so they can get another veteran to influence young players or take swings on projects.
Maybe even that every team that stays at or under the salary cap gets a compensator draft pick or extra 2.5-5 mil cap space. Lastly, add like 4 more G-League teams and more games, but 2 of them be ran by the NBA and be full of veterans and veteran coaches to give even more challenges and development to the G-league. Lastly continue to explore in season tournaments with again, draft picks, MLE, or extra rosters spots paid by NBA as a part of the prizes to motivate younger teams to try (or give draft capital for them to trade to starving teams). East would eventually benefit from something like this. The only issue is the west could get richer from any of this too
Also, NBA and players should agree on pop up practice and coaching evaluations from successful former players, coaches and GMs to hold crappy coaches, GMs and owners accountable. This way an “evaluating” party can help owners or GMs make better mid season adjustments or make the tougher decisions sooner rather than later. And just thought of this, start making some contracts that are just way to high not be fully guaranteed and based off performance and playoff success. This way players won’t phone in some of their performances or the one year wonder affecting a team for years
For the tournaments, they can have all east and all west, and a loser’s tournament that includes all teams that did not make the playoffs the year before. The only trick is to schedule all of this before hand.
Maybe even a mid year tournament for teams that are under .500 at the start of the tournament.
Prizes should always be to give the winning teams some prize that gives them more opportunities to improve.
Adding more than 1 or 2 expansion teams would greatly dilute the product. There's already a handful of teams with a dearth of talent, and they want to add more teams??
You have to remember: At the end of the day, the NBA is a business and there have already been talks about expansion for a while.
It is no coincidence. No one wants to play at Detroit, Charlotte, Washington, Cleveland, Indiana, Atlanta and Toronto. While the west has only handful of teams that no one wants to play for, and new york is much of a lesser market than LA in the recent years. The west has bigger market teams, and even if the big eastern markets will be more competent, the west will continue to have an edge, as long as players are in control of where they are going to play. Only the draft can make a high profile showtime players like Zion or Ja play for small market teams
Timezones and more people live on the east coast, you gotta make those teams look good so people on the east stay up and watch em
This was the same in the 2000s. West had Lakers, Spurs, Nash’s Suns, Dirk’s Mavs, the CWebb Kings teams. East had ragtag Pistons, Nets, young LeBron, Young Wade.
East also had the Pacers with Jermaine O’Neal, and Ron Artest
We don't need expansion, making the playoffs seeded 1-16 would fix a lot of issues. Let the division winners get an automatic bid and the rest of the best records get in.
Odd we didn't bring this up last year or the year before that 🤔
People have been talking about it for 10 years.
@@Oshakaramore than 20 years actually haha
@@facelessandnameless sure!
The league needs to get rid of conferences, and for the travel issues, allow the team with home court advantage to choose who they want to play, keep the play in tournament but in order for teams in the 9-10 seed to qualify they have to be within 5 games of the standings with the 7-8 seed records. Lastly what's happening this season is unacceptable. The Rockets are likely to finish with a 500 record and not even crack the play in, the worst three teams in the league (record wise) are Eastern Conference Teams, make lottery odds the same for the 6 worst teams in the league to prevent tanking cause it's still going on.
The imbalance is caused by the bottom being worse at the better conference for years teams like the Suns, Timberwolves, Spurs, etc had better chances at getting a top picks. Coupled with the LA teams getting players worming their way there because NBA players love LA.
Since 99-00, the east has won the head to head against the west a total of 3 times. Admittedly, the east won the head to head in 21-22 and 22-23, but it appears as though the balance of power is shifting back to the west this year. This definitely at least was a real issue in the 20 years since Jordan's retirement and it looks as though it may continue.
the east has dealt with more injuries than the west this year. thered be at leat 4-5 50 win teams below the celtics
Can’t really do conferences not having a part in playoffs without completely redoing the schedule so everyone plays everyone an even (or as close to even as possible) number of times otherwise the teams in the easier conference would have inflated records by playing the bad teams more often. You’d basically have to remove conferences entirely for all purposes which would lead to more travel but that could be accounted for in scheduling if they do it right.
4:22 Sorry, but it just makes so much more sense to move Minnesota to the Central division. I'm not even a T-Wolves fan, but I'm willing to die on this hill. Minnesota is closer to every team in the Central Division than they are OKC the closest team in their current division.
I've been watching NBA basketball since the Jordan days; my thoughts and observation on the West v East argument is western teams are more willing to experiment and flesh out new concepts (7 seconds or less, pace and space, 3pt revolution, the point center) whereas I see a more traditional/ conservative approach in the east.
That's actually a pretty accurate assessment.
I would just add that each conference has been stuck on their particular business model since Magic/Bird.
In that time period, if you had a plodding team in the WC, you couldn't even pretend to contend with the Lakers, and if you had a smallish flash-and-dash team in the EC, you couldn't survive Boston.
So each of the other teams in those conferences at that time, HAD to build their teams to contend with the conference bully and couldn't be concerned about "winning a championship"(ie, the bully in the opposing conference).
Switching sports, this is the reason that the Steelers couldn't beat the Patriots in the playoffs.
Brady and company could get by with a smurf-sized team in their division because their division was small and terrible, so even though they were a smallish team (at some positions), over the course of a full regular season, they didn't take near the physical beat down that the Steelers had to endure to make the same playoffs.
Conversely, the Steelers had to be built to survive the Black-and-Blue division, so when the playoffs arrived the Steelers were beaten down, and a slower team anyway, whereas the Patriots were generally fresh and healthy.
The Patriots kind of had a choice of how to build their team because their division was so horrible, but the Steelers HAD to be built a certain way just to physically survive their division.
Back to basketball: So ever since Bird/Magic, the respective conferences have been stuck chasing the conference bully. ie, if you were not huge, you couldn't beat LBJ, and if you weren't "quick" you couldn't beat Steph, etc., still a mirror image of the Bird/Magic era.
@@qt3dot14ish I like the NFL analogy but I don't think it applies here because by that logic the east should have way more titles considering how much of a gauntlet the west has been for 25 years and the title disparity is 16-8 in favor of the west since Jordan's 98 retirement.
Look at Ben Simmons' archetype. He's a 6'9" athletic defensive minded playmaker without an outside shot, who does he sound like? Magic; and Magic probably would've failed as an NBA player if he wasn't allowed to play to his strengths, which is what Philly and Brooklyn didn't understand in handling his development. We consider Magic to be arguably the greatest point guard of all time, yet in his 13 year career he averaged over 20 ppg in a season 4x. Would anybody consider him a failure for that?
Priority in draft picks for the weaker conference previous year.
Just compare the draft picks last years. The west is insane with Luka, Ja, Zion, A. Edwards, Wemby etc.
The east should get two teams from either the pelicans, wolves, or grizzlies. West gets 4 expansion teams in Seattle, las Vegas, mexico City, and kansas city or somewhere else.
It's been like that since at least the 2000s as i recall
The east needs to just "get good" and that starts with management.
The Western Conference winner will be more battle tested for a championship than the easy road the Celtics possibly had.
It's probably why Jordan's East gave him the type of competition to test his teams for championships when they did eventually break through the East.
It’s pretty obvious. Most of the best players in the east went to the west and the 2 best players are having issues. Embiid has been injured, and Giannis team got gutted.
Even though some of them have less of an impact now part of the west feeling stronger could be because the east keep trading away stars for no stars in return. Ex. Harden, Westbrook, Beal, Durant, CP3, Kyrie, etc. The only team that I could think of that traded a star to west and got a star back is Indy.
The only star for no star trades I can think of from west to east are like KG, Ray, Melo(this was a fleece though), and Blake.
Per standings today. Season series matchups with the position each team is in their respective conferences
Celtics/OKC 1-1
Bucks/Wolves 1-1
Knicks/Nuggets 1-1
Cavs/Clippers 1-1
Magic/Mavs 2-0 Dallas
Sixers/Pelicans 2-0 Pels
Suns/Pacers 1-1
Heat/Lakers 2-0 Miami
Bulls/Kings 1-1
Hawks/Warriors 1-1
Obviously this doesn’t tell the whole story, but looks like the two conferences are evenly matched.
I get it, but even with injuries, the 8th place team in the ECF is going to finish 10 games above .500. The Celtics are very likely to play either the Sixers or Heat, which is nuts for a mid-60s win team. It’s more that the bad teams in the ECF are really bad
I like moving Memphis and New Orleans to the East, and adding Seattle/Las Vegas, making them choose from a team's 3rd best player down to make decent, not dynastic teams. It helps in 2K until the retirements come, then it's all East for a while lol. Bron/Steph/KD all go well before the next East titan does.
What is East vs West all time record?
Simple solution. The top 6 team in the east and the top 6 team in the west automatically make the playoff. The playin based on win-lose, regardless of conferences.
2 reasons the West is ALWAYS going to have a recruiting advantage.
1. The weather. Keep in mind, the best players in the league can live anywhere they want, they can afford property at any price, and they will never have to worry about being taxed to death.
The weather on the West Coast means that a lot of role-players are willing to take a salary-cut to play there and set up their families there, and when you are getting max either way, you might as well get max somewhere you would like to live the rest of your life (like California).
Good Weather Cities:
East
Orlando and Miami (Ignoring Hurricanes)
West
Sacramento, Los Angeles, Los Angeles (again), San Francisco
borderline: New Orleans (Ignoring Hurricanes), Houston, San Antonio, Dallas
Bad weather Cities:
East
Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, and the East Coast is all borderline
West:
Denver, Minnesota, and Portland is kinda borderline
2. Time Zones. East Coast NBA fans can tell you, a lot of those late games on the West Coast, it's hard to stay up for if you've got to be up early in the morning. It's much harder for Eastern Conference teams to go to away games on the West Coast and START playing at 10:30 Eastern (game ending after midnight) several times a year than it is for a Western team to go to the East and play an early game at 10:30 AM Pacific a couple times a year. Both have their drawbacks, but the drawback to being Eastern Conference is clearly worse.
Remember, much of the west is expansion teams with ownership that has different values and expectations.. many of the old east teams are family businesses at the end of the day
The conferences have been lopsided for a quarter of a century.
the ideal scenario is to add Vegas and Seattle as expansion teams in the west and move Minnesota and Memphis to the east as they should be
Let's get something clear about conferences, I think we should keep the Eastern and Western Conference, but they should make it a point to have divisions matter; so, it could be easier to schedule games. Plus Eastern Conference owners would basically fire the NBA Commissioner for even thinking that. It's also a logistics nightmare.
Timberwolves & OKC come to the East if NBA want 2 team expansion 🤔🤔🤔
Its all about the money and the nba is banking big and so are the players. Team salaries doesn't seem to have an affect by east and west. When you throw out the crazy salaries of the LA teams
Love to see a straight up 18 best records, 15-18 have a play in.
I don't think travel is that big a deal, most the teams will be in the West anyway. Lol
its been waaaaaay longer than 10 years bro lol this been going back since the kobe and sahq days in the early 2000s... you look young so i wont give you hell lol (tho the 2020s have been more east power until this year in my opiniion)
it's crazy. Even in the case of the celtics, the last time I looked (like a month ago, idk about now given they've taken their foots off the gas), less than 40% of their games played were against the west, yet half of their losses were to west teams. I still think they'd be the #1 seed if they were a west team, but I don't think they're winning 60 games. the east is pathetic from 2 to 15.
The NBA needs to realign the conferences
Doubt this would ever actually happen, but surprised nobody has ever suggested randomized conferences like the AFC and NFC in the NFL or the AL and NL in the MLB
Why would the NBA do dumm stuff just because the other sports leagues are doing dumm stuff?
Smaller divisions build more passion for the local teams, save on travel expenses, saves wear and tear on the athletes bodies, builds excitement as 6 teams in "first place" is way more marketable than 2 teams in "first place", plus, in general, sport is not about idiotic randomness.
One of the reasons that NBA viewership has gone down in the US is because the NBA has already over-homogenized the division and conferences.
The reason is that gamblers don't care about teams, only stats, and the overseas viewership, which dwarfs us viewership, doesn't care about localized divisions.
All that stuff you are suggesting has zero purpose.
If I was in the West I would want out, the west is stacked and will be much easier to make a play-off run in the east, won't be surprised if some free agents makes the journey east
It also causes the schedule to suck. Magic and Miami get to beat up on the hawks, hornets, and the wizards because they are in the same division they play a ton. Meanwhile Suns, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Golden State all are in the same division beating up on each other a ton during the season. Considering there isn’t any focus on division in the NBA and travel has become easier, I think they need to balance the schedule to where every team plays each other a set amount of times
How about the top 6 teams of both conferences get in the playoffs in their respective conferences. Then take the best 4 records of the remaining teams, regardless of conference, and fill in the 7th and 8th seeds.
They should add the next 2 expansion teams to Seattle and Vegas (which is definitely going to happen), then move the Grizzlies and Pels to the east, because that would shake things up
Philly would probably be the #2 seed if Embiid didn't go down.
I don’t think that is even a “probably”. A healthy Embiid would have been good for at least another 8 - 10 wins.
The only team that would make the play in this year if it was whole league seeding is Houston that's it. They have a 1 game lead on Chicago and a 4 game on Atlanta. Atlanta out Houston in is the only difference that would occur.