Citra shutting down infuriates me more than Yuzu. Yuzu was kinda expected because the Switch is still an active system, but because of collateral damage, Citra went down as well. That was the best 3DS emulator and no other has a high compatibility rate at the moment. The 3DS is legacy hardware now, so shutting that down was a dick move.
@@powerhouse884I still have Yuzu on my Odin 2 with 256gb micro SD card planning to purchase 512gb so. I can easily copy and paste *and keep Yuzu on my Device as for Switch roms majority of 3rd party sites are still pirating them. So I get to keep playing games on Yuzu latest build runs great 60fps on most games even without update for switch roms. With very little bugs and glitches so'm still very happy that I have a copy of dead emulator on my Odin 2 that I'll never get rid of!*
That wouldn't make any sense, they could've used open-source emulators for NSO games but instead they made all in-house emulators, so I doubt they'd use any Yuzu code for emulation in the future. Most likely they'll just use it to create tighter security around how future Switch successor games are encrypted.
Nintendo is literally making the same argument record companies did when mp3 players started to catch on. The idea that something can be used to enable piracy equals "encouraging" piracy is so stupid.
I've been an emulation fan going back to when MAME was a one person project. The Yuzu situation reminds me of Ultra-HLE (N64 emulator) and Bleem (PSX emulator). Both of these came out during the lifetime of the hardware it emulated, and both got smacked down by Nintendo / Sony. It was a blow to the emulation scene, but as you know, N64 and PSX emulation is alive and well today. Emulating systems is not illegal, and as long as the emulator developers avoid making money off of their work (and avoid current systems of course) then they will be fine. Emulation is not going anywhere.
Profit is not an issue. Bleem won their case against Sony. Sony didn’t smack them down in a conventional sense. They went bankrupt due to litigation costs.
@@Bob_Smith19the issue with yuzu was cracking their cryptographic keys and distributing them. The devs were pretty careless and it’s a very fine line to walk with emulation and they crossed it multiple times. There’s still projects like ryujinx which so far avoided litigation and it’s a great alternative, it’s not too far behind and in some cases performs better. The suit against yuzu is less about emulation and more about cracking.
Thanks for providing a very well thought out and professional perspective on the Yuzu / Nintendo situation. Your channel is always one of the best when it comes to emulation and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your information and advice on the preservation of these systems, and their respective audio and visual art. Keep up the great work!
I love the push for retro emulation for the ability for us to keep enjoying these pieces of media history that have been lost to the wind. I can understand what is going on with this situation and know people always find ways to work around it. Being able to keep those memories fresh and these pieces of history and art alive is what brings me the most joy. The digital domain is finding its place in antiquated history and I don't want to see it turned to digital dust in the wind. Thanks for your thoughts on the topic Russ.
@@TakisEnjoyerYou don't seem to understand that the Switch and its games WILL be made unavailable eventually and when that day comes it's too late for developers to get as good of a look as they can now. Especially early firmware revisions are instrumental in getting a closer look. Emulation is ALWAYS ethical and piracy is NEVER theft.
@PuffyRainbowCloud no other mainstream console was emulated this early on while still at retail, and they turned out fine. And switch games are still dumped upon release regardless. So this yuzu thing isn't impacting preservation if that was the concern. This just impacts people for the near future wanting to emulate switch in the present, and mainly just android users considering pc has another Switch emulator.
@@TakisEnjoyerDid you ever compare BotW/ToTK on original hardware vs a decent gaming PC with mods? They're hardly even the same game / experience. Taking away emulation from these games would be like forcing you to play Skyrim without mods, on a PC from the time around when it came out.
@@ninjason57 It's a case by case situation. Ryujinx usually runs games with less glitches, but it's usually a little bit more demanding. In contrast, if Yuzu has problems with a specific game, maybe Ryujinx doesn't and soon.
@@ninjason57 The rule of thumb was that yuzu has worse game compatibility, but games that had it play better than ryujinx. I only play 1 game on yuzu and the rest on ryujinx for the better features
Nintendo first party exclusives aside, the thousands of indie and third party titles are usually widely available on other platforms - notably, Steam, where they're likely to work on PCs for years to come.
Interestingly, when pirates can't play third-party games on PC due to DRM that is difficult to crack, they would often turn to Yuzu to play it instead. Prince of Persion The Lost Crown is a recent example.
Internet Archive still has the latest Yuzu and Citra builds since they seem to be exempt. Even if Nintendo goes after them there are torrent sites and even Usenet. It is impossible to erase anything from the internet.
Yes, the emulator itself is never going to disappear. Once it's out there, any file on the internet will continue to be spread around. But it will no longer be worked on until someone else forks it (assuming it is open-source, which some of these projects aren't). Citra is the real loss here. Yuzu isn't important, there's already Ryujinx. It's a loss to not have TWO emulators, but far worse is to have none, as is the case with Citra. So, hopefully someone else picks up the slack. There are too many possibilities in the 3DS emulation world to let it end with the morons behind Citra who allowed themselves to be sued by not taking the necessary precautions.
@@Guitario666 No but they are moderately harder to get now, and some content creators have been removing how to guides. Smug isn't an attractive look Guitario666
@@Guitario666 Feels like your purposefully being obtuse. for both emulators the wiki guides are all down and the FAQ's, meaning barrier or entry for people is going to be harder. What file formats does Citra and Yuzu support? What does X setting actually change? Yes you can find all of that on forums and other places, but the barrier of entry is much harder now without it all. I am very aware that with some effort you can find what your looking for, but the ease of use just went away.
@@Oddoad6001 no need to worry. all the videos will be back up (people will make new ones) after the whole thing die down in a few weeks time. at the moment, everyone is in reaction mode. and i', certain you can find the wiki guides, and all that on internet archive.
The issue wasn't emulation, but the fact totk was leaked before the actual release of the game and Yuzu devs actively profited from it before even Nintendo did it. We have to thank Yuzu and Citra's shutdown to all these folks around the internet bragging about how "smart" they're for playing totk even before de "morans" who bought it. The emulation community weakens because of such behavior! When we make emulation about piracy the big companies gain resources to strike harder and even destroy whole niches of emulation. But when it's made about access and preservation this community is UNSTOPPABLE! I wish everyone had seen it!
I'm glad that the last version of Yuzu was pretty solid in performance and that version should last us for a while. It runs almost any switch game I've tried. The handheld market is obviously more impacted than PC since Ryujinx is still a great emulator and is still in development.
Definitely a respectable approach to the future of emulation and your videos moving forward. I'm still interested in every other existing emulator with new and old handhelds alike, so I'll be watching regardless of the unfortunate halt in Yuzu and Citra development and inability to showcase them without the risk Nintendork striking you down. Love the work you're doing and appreciate the update on your channel after all that's happened!
It is important to note that Yuzu was not deemed illegal by a judge, and therefore, they were not fined $2.4 million. Yuzu decided to settle with Nintendo for that amount because they were aware that they would lose the case. Their downfall was due to the fact that they created a Patreon account and shared ROMs on Google Drive. If future developers don't set up a Patreon and share ROMS, they will be all right.
I think the patreon also gave Nintendo real numbers to understand how yuzu was being used when TOTK was launched. Without the subscriber count and the early access incentive nintendo would have virtually no way of prooving that pirated copies of TOTK were being emulated. As oppose to just being played on a hacked switch
Someone will use a clone of the last repo and keep Citra and yuzu running, if not under the same name. A popular manga app, tachiyomi, had the same issue, and someone picked up the torch within 24 hours.
This is a really big bummer. Im pretty new to the retro emulation community, about 6 months, and this is the first big blow to emulation I’ve experienced. As for the future, I’d love to at least see performance benchmarks for switch on these new devices with the next best available switch emulator. But it’s totally understandable if that’s not doable right now. I’d love to see the 3DS and Japanese 3DS modding videos. I see tons on marketplace in my area and have always been curious to get one and tinker. We’ll be fine through this, it’s just a change to adjust to. Thanks for keeping the community alive and well Russ! :)
Switch is not retro, hence why it got smacked down extra by Big N. Us old timers know not to poke the bear and draw attention to this hobby. Still lots of retro games to play so keep playing PS2/Gamecube and older titles. Lots of gems there. I'm sure Nintendo is trying to find ways to shut down Ryujinx as well. I would not be surprised if we see DMCA challenges on github start happening.
@@vlesmeriesNah, the Ryujinx guys are doing low profile stuff right now and aren't involved on stuff like leaked Tears Of The Kingdom ROMs before launch. The creator is a brazillian and emulators are legal on Brazil, if Nintendo wants to take it down, then it would have trouble with Brazil's government.
This is the concern I have when "buying" videos as well, from Amazon, etc. Will they always be available? But while I understand the Yuzu takedown, I agree with you that 3DS emulation through Citra should have been left alone. If it's not an active system, it moves into the realm of preservation. At some point, the technology available to physically play games on the older systems will not exist, and emulation will be the solution. I'd like to see a video on the Japanese 3DS system, as well as jailbreaking and set-up, as my current 3DS is no longer working. Thanks for the video!
This is kind-of a solved issue as well. Digital isn't great but one thing that does get backed up is blurays, and they use a similar key decryption scheme on them. This is called the AACS encryption key, having these keys isn't illegal because they are required to play media you own. But it's very much a similar situation to Nintendo, where Toshiba really wants you to watch Blurays their way, but the prevailing legal sentiment is that having the keys on another device to play media you purchased isn't a legal battle anyone wants to have because going that route isn't likely to win. I mean Nintendo makes a lot of money, but they have no way of proving that people who pirated the game would have bought it otherwise (or turned around and DID buy it), and the amount of "loss" is so little compared to the fire they've started in the emulation community now. There are so many forks of forks of repos and some are private and people are already working to obfuscate the Yuzu code and maintain the emulator, it's become a race, Nintendo may have done more harm to themselves than good.
I got stung last week when I bought the ES-DE (emulation Station) from Amazon app store. And then Amazon took it down. And there is no refund option here int he UK store 😂 booooo-urns
@@tybera1114if someone is/was never going to buy the game, what makes them think they are entitled to experience it anyways? i understand if its old games u cannot buy anymore, but if its something that is still readily available pirates have no moral ground to stand on.
I believe Switch emulation shows a few things: 1) there is a desire to carry fewer devices that serve more functions, and 2) there might be some frustration with Switch performance. It is no secret that the handheld is using a SoC that is roughly a decade old at this stage, and even top end devices rarely last so long. If we could measure those two driving forces, I wonder what they would translate into in terms of raw numbers. I assume Nintendo probably has some marketing/product strategists that have a better picture of this, but I a sure those sales figures act as a strong counterpoint. I would love to be a fly on the wall for those conversations.
I mean if you want to be real it showed there were a lot of people that would rather play for free rather than pay money... i mean lets be real thats the number one reason.
Most people weren't building it themselves. The Yuzu team painted a target on themselves by pay-walling binaries. It may have been legal, but it was a bad idea.
@@GareWorks that's so incorrect. you don't need to build it yourself. what was it called? pineapple ea. people compiled everything and shared it as soon as yuzu released it. you didn't need to build anything and you get it the same time.
This was an amazing discussion on the topic. All sides were intelligently dissected and it’s honestly, just great journalism, which I don’t think we always think of when watching CZcams. Ha.
THEY. WERE. CHARGING. MONEY. We had this conversation about emulators decades ago - defenders made the argument that reverse-engineering hardware was a purely scientific endeavor. That was the protection emulators had and Yuzu painted a huge target on their backs by abandoning that. The age of the console was inconsequential.
Especially 3rd world countries emulate and download these games but how many people in the 3rd world countries have powerful enough system PC or mobile that can run it at acceptable frames without hiccups.
The point about creators pushing Yuzu as part of its downfall is really interesting to me. Yuzu was the first time I can recall that people touted an emulator as an alternative to a modern console. Cemu was kind of like that, but only for BOTW really Also I hope CitraVR can continue, I really think it's the definitive way to play 3DS, even better than the actual 3DS
No. People fear mongering Nintendo's ridiculous and hole-filled claims, and spreading misinfo because of it, is why the settlement happened. Yuzu EA could NOT play TOTK when it leaked up to release, Ryujinx could meanwhile (and they banned any mentions of mods to fix that in their discord). Yuzu EA is "paywalled" except it isnt since the source code was always open, you could build it yourself, and already-built EA versions were available in multiple places. A lot of Nintendo's claims in the lawsuit are either grossly false or disgusting statements that are so broad in nature that it intimidates the person being sued to not take it to court, out of fear of precedent and validating the disgusting statements in future cases. Nobody bothers to learn the full context around Yuzu, the patreon or the lawsuit.
Great chat Russ! Re: testing Switch emulation on new devices, maybe u could test on Ryujinx, but show literal footage of the game on Switch? So we'd more listen to the words than the visuals.
I don't have your numbers - but I have purposefully stayed away from covering anything surrounding the Switch. It has NEVER felt right to me to enable people to essentially steal "current gen" content. I'm not anti-emulation. But imagine what Sony or Xbox would be doing to people if PS5/Xbox games were being pirated, playable on whatever hardware and in some cases, play better? Of course they would go after everyone. Somehow Nintendo is "the devil" for doing it; but truth is - emulating a current gen system is no different than taking the latest AAA game on and pirating it. This isn't "abandonware". This has ZERO to do with preservation. It is about piracy. Nintendo doesn't "tolerate" emulation well - but they don't go for the throat unless the line is crossed fairly far. That's what happened here.
There is another 3DS emulator for both PC and Android (Mikage) in development, as well. They've already stated that they plan to continue development despite recent events.
I'm surprised by the number of people who genuinely cannot see any issue with an emulator that targets a company's _current console_ on the market, and which lets you play those games at higher framerates and resolutions. That, coupled with how people would brag about how they were playing some Switch games ahead of their public release, is essentially saying 🖕🏻 you to Nintendo. Are people really now **surprised Pikachu face** that Nintendo's lawyers have said: no, 🖕🏻 you! 🤷🏻♂️
I personally think it’s bad form to crack games with a current system still selling games and publicizing that fact. I know it is going to happen but should remain on the down low until the system sunsets. The PSP got raped. If I recall it was done by a fella out of Brazil and took a long time before he was pushed into a corner. But a corner he did find himself with big Sony gorillas with suits. If you want to be smart about Emulation just wait till the company has stopped selling the system you want to emulate said games. Don’t be on CZcams and be like, “ HEY look what I can do and 🖕you!”
As a Monster Hunter player - I know Citra was collateral damage, but I am utterly disgusted by Nintendo shutting down Citra the same month they're shutting down MH4U servers. There's no way to play MH4U now. It's anti-consumerism at its finest.
You can spin it whatever, to their eyes its -60 dollar every single time people torrent that thing. And their army of lawyers and ninjas are going to convince the judge and jury one way or another
Mines is I’ve never played Citra before I still have it thank god. 2. I never own switch emulation on my pc it still be virus. I’ll covering it for future until switch is discontinued before until next gen for Nintendo. 3.I’m sure 3DSpanda is 3DS emulator can’t wait for trying it soon as possible. 4. It makes me sad about they taken down on emuparadies, yuzu or skyline and Dolphin on Steam. 5. I’m looking forward to it for new emulations, that my end of story.
Actually... it occurred to me... If Nintendo now owns all of Yuzu's stuff, does that mean the previously open source code is now property of Nintendo? In other words, if anyone builds on the legacy of Yuzu's code, can Nintendo just immediately squash it because Yuzu code itself belongs to Nintendo?
@@linkonprimeluckily even if it's owned by Nintendo, the code has an open source license, so Nintendo can't do anything about Yuzu source code being used in forks, because the license states that it can be used. Basically, it's impossible to kill a project using the source code unless they manage to make emulators illegal which I don't see happening any time soon.
So Switch - We got Ryujinx, we good. 3DS - What was left for Citra to do, that can't be picked up in a few years? Go get a backup of Citra, it's like a Hydra as people are saying, it's not going anywhere, so we're good there too. Lets be chill and enjoy giving Nintendo the bird, this is Streisanding really badly for them, and I'm glad that Nintendo will lose out because they're "a holes"
Piracy has never been linked to loss of sales or profit. People who pirate were never going to buy the game anyway, but by pirating it and playing it those people are actually MORE likely they will purchase the game, to have an up to date and supported version. Piracy gets companies more sales than it loses.
@@darth_hylian That's still a ridicoulus amount for the work he's putting in. What point exactly are you trying to make? You're not going to convince a pirate that those companies are playing a fair game, lmfao.
Bleem and Virtual Game Station were awesome PS1 emulators back in the day, and it hurt to lose those products that I paid for. It took many years, but now we have some incredible emulators that strive for accuracy, not just zero-day compatibility (as impressive as that is from the user's perspective, it's a nightmare for publishers). The Yuzu model was quite the anomaly in the emulation scene; we just just need to recall the past and practice patience.
Everybody who says "emulation is dead" is being overwrought and unnecessarily dramatic. Nintendo may stamp out Citra and Yuzu, but others will take their place, and multiple generations of emulation of MANY consoles inside and outside of Nintendo's control aren't going away either.
Its a bummer from the present stand point. For the future, its very likely a fork will pick up Yuzu's work and go from there. Same for Citra. Its just a matter of time until even more alternatives exist, so yeah, its fucked now, indiferent in the future.
Nintendo KNOWS they're making dead systems harder. They want to sell it back to you as a subscription. A game that is no longer in print on a system that is no longer sold should not be protected by law.
u shouldnt care too much about it since you can still download yuzu or citra. Just look for forks of those projects (Many ppl forked the project already and some even try to further develop it).
I personally think Nintendo has the right to shut down emulation of their current hardware, which undoubtedly is promoting piracy of their games. But losing Citra in the crossfire is a huge bummer. But seeing how Nintendo hasn’t taken action against emulators for previous systems, I do feel like if someone reintroduced a Citra-“inspired” emulator they would likely leave it alone. So long as no money is being made off of it
One of Dolphin founders last year said that for all the 💩 people give Nintendo they're usually pretty nice to their legacy console emulation communities. And they need to be poked really hard for them to do something about it. I feel like if Yuzu was released in 2026 they would be more than safe
I have to tell you, I really appreciate you and what you do. I’m new to all of this and am also of the same mindset of being able to play all of the retro systems in one place is fantastic. As a switch owner, being able to play those games was just gravy. I guess we have to stay tuned.
The "it's a current console" argument is completely moot. I appreciate a lot of folks may be too young, but Sony and Nintendo lost various lawsuits in the 90s against emulators that were emulating what were at the time current systems. The most famous of which being Bleem which made headlines for running certain PS1 games on Sega hardware, but was a full fat PS1 emulator years prior on PC, at a time where the PS1 was very much a current system. Emulators are not illegal and there are literally legal precedents affirming this. The issue is due to the wonderful legal system the US employs companies such as Nintendo can simply litigate the defendant into oblivion, even if legally they are in the clear. Nintendo simply wanted a quick payday and for those Yuzu devs this was the easy way out. Trying to justify such aggression from a multi-billion dollar company who will not respect the law is nothing more than fanboyism
"How are my kids going to play these games in the future?" As a father, this question resonates so deeply... We'll just keep the preservation effort going Russ!! Thanks for the thoughts man. Love what you're doing.
CZcamsr responsibility is definitely not a stance most would take. Mad respect for talking about the impact CZcamsrs have on these communities. It’s a difficult line to walk when spotlighting stuff because you want people to know how great it is, but the last thing you want is everyone to flock to your paradise and ruin a great thing. This is something that has happened with retro game collecting and I think the transition translates to underground gaming as well. Nobody wants to take responsibility for highlighting something with the possibility that it could ruin a great thing. I don’t think CZcamsrs ruined yuzu but I think that its popularity wake is something that should be considered especially when it can set the stage for the future of emulation. If a company has bad business practices that can hurt the community I think it should definitely be left in the shadows. That said, I don’t think most CZcamsrs highlight or are aware of these practices so it can’t fall on them for its demise. Honestly I think we can thank Nintendo for highlighting the faults of bad emulation practices so that we can adjust its course and better protect its future.
What a bummer. I had hoped it would go to court and Nintendo would have lost. Now they've 'won', and it could be a potential harm for the future of emulation cases.
Dont worry yall. Pirates will find the way forward. We always do. You cant be anti piracy while using Emulators. Yall can act like you are. But without the pirates yall wouldnt have Sh%t. 🏴☠
I really appreciate all the work done for all emulators - past and present consoles. I think it’s awesome that we can play Switch games on Steam Deck and other platforms. That being said - I don’t think we should be emulating current gen systems. It just paints too much of a target on our backs to companies like Nintendo. If Yuzu hadn’t been profiting off of the project in any way - I don’t think Nintendo would have gone after them. The problem (at least with Switch emulation in my opinion) has never been that emulation takes place - it’s that piracy takes place. I have a modded switch and have backed up all my games and have some loaded on my Steam Deck, but I have never given my game files to anyone else, nor have I downloaded/recieved game files from anyone else. That’s all fine and well given the results of Sony v. Bleem and Sony v. Connectix. I don’t want to see anything change in regards to the legality of emulation BUT if Nintendo is so gung-ho about changing things - start a new case that addresses emulation in modern terms. So many people talk about how the Sony emulation cases were decided 20+ years ago and they are no longer relevant. I personally think they are - but times changes. Piracy is the main issue here - and that’s harder to tackle. When games leak ahead of time and people can play them via emulators - that CAN eat into potential sales. Not always - I know some people will pirate the game prior to official launch, play it, and still buy it when it comes out. Sure - Nintendo didn’t lose any money from that customer - however if that person shares gameplay online, or redistributes the game files with others - those others may not behave the same. Maybe they see gameplay that doesn’t look good (because of the emulation quality) and decide not to buy it even though it would play better on official hardware (they just wouldn’t know about that prior to launch). It’s because of these bad actors that the emulation scene has such a target painted on our backs. Until people stop promoting piracy - this issue will never go away. And by that I mean that I know it will never go away.
I agree with the fact that some of these people should be compensated for what they are doing and I've always wondered why they were never set up like a non-profit organization or non-profit company to begin with? The way it was set up now, was just asking for trouble.
You make some good and well thought out points. I have never done any Nintendo Switch emulation, simply because I didn't want to jailbreak my Switch to back up my games and risk being locked out of my Nintendo account, even though I have an earlier version of the Switch console that can be more readily jail broken. I bought my Steam Deck LCD, and subsequently Steam Deck OLED, to primarily play the games in my Steam library, as I especially like the Steam Deck's console experience. I have experimented with emulation on the Steam Deck, so I could play my GBA games that I really liked, but I can no longer play on my GBA console because it failed. I also play Zelda BOTW and Metroid Prime on my Steam Deck, but I bought the Nintendo WiiU games versions for the Deck, in addition to having already bought them as game cartridges for the Switch, so I paid Nintendo twice for the experience, as I prefer playing these two games on my Steam Deck compared with my Nintendo Switch. I do wish Nintendo would spend as much money / effort on improving their customer experience as they do on litigation. Nintendo's recent antics and sharp practices of effectively making you buy the same game many times over as you upgrade to their newer gaming consoles, discouraged me from buying an OLED Nintendo Switch, and leaves me questioning should I reward such behaviour and buy a Nintendo Switch 2, should one ever be released. Why don't Nintendo take a leaf out of Sony's book, and release some of their back catalogue of old console games for the PC. Most modern PC gaming consoles have touch screens and gyros etc. that would allow them to readily play PC versions of old DS and 3DS games, and then I wouldn't need to mess around with emulation. I recently re-imaged my Steam Deck LCD, and didn't bother with reinstalling EMUDeck etc, and instead focussed on my Steam Library and XBox Cloud gaming, so I could stream some of my XBox Game Pass games to my Steam Deck which works really well after adding the relevant Microsoft provided Edge shortcuts and artwork to my Steam Library.
If Nintendo would keep their online shops open there would be less of an argument for emulation. Sony is guilty of this too with the PS3. (I'm unfamiliar with how Microsoft/Xbox does things.)
Gabe Newell said it best: Piracy is an issue of service, not price. The people who side with Nintendo on this are essentially saying, "Will someone please think of the poor billion dollar mega corporation!".
After thinking on this for a few days, I think there are generational differences at play here. Who didn’t have a “neighborhood” copy of software in the 80s and 90s? I remember in my high school Cisco Networking class, we had a copy of Windows XP that was passed around prior to release by a few days. Our teacher over heard us talking and kind of called us out, kind of hurt he wasn’t offered it early. Apple became what it is today because Napster and Limewire, etc all got shutdown while iTunes made it affordable and easy to pay what we now know is for the ability to access a license, not actually own it like physical. Who didn’t have mixtapes and recorded shows off their VCR? …I’m still curious why companies haven’t tried to ban DVRs… I think we have a culture that toes the piracy line with different feelings based on different upbringings, both generationally, but also regarding what is and isn’t perceived piracy. Obviously there are legal definitions, but there are also plenty of laws that are no longer enforced, but still in the books. Piracy can obviously be enforced, but even Nintendo seems to pick its battles. Ultimately- devs, stop pre-release compatibility, if not all current gen emulation. Stop pay walls - I’m fine with “$5 to remove ads” or “$5 coffee donation”, but the optics of “Pay $10 to get this additional access” seems a little too far. Publishers need to do better, too. We need options to preserve purchases and not be expected to pay multiple times to play things on current hardware - Steam has done it for years and years! Windows still has Windows Phone purchases I made. C’mon Nintendo!
Both yuzu and citra were open source. They have already been revived by different groups. We should be focusing more on Nintendo's insanity and less on emulators that will continue to exist.
Hello Russ, Highly appreciate your high quality videos over the years. Thank you! I think you can still show your 3DS and N.Switch emulation results but not mentioning the emulator’s names. Tell your audiences to check your older videos to get to know what emulators were used, “because of many reasons”. That makes your videos remain high quality by not missing 3DS and N.Switch results. I hope you would keep it on. All the best!
Great video, Russ. I saw someone in the comments of MVG's video speculating that Nintendo chose this time to strike once they had a solid case because the Switch 2 is going to have a similar OS and API layers. It feels like this is an extremely unique case because gaming is so much bigger now, and the Switch is so underpowered.
Citra shutting down infuriates me more than Yuzu. Yuzu was kinda expected because the Switch is still an active system, but because of collateral damage, Citra went down as well. That was the best 3DS emulator and no other has a high compatibility rate at the moment. The 3DS is legacy hardware now, so shutting that down was a dick move.
At least Citra is fairly stable. Not like any more 3ds games are coming out
Hopefully mikeage can take it's place
You can still get Citra builds out there. Many old emulators are still online to download from other ROM websites.
@@powerhouse884I still have Yuzu on my Odin 2 with 256gb micro SD card planning to purchase 512gb so. I can easily copy and paste *and keep Yuzu on my Device as for Switch roms majority of 3rd party sites are still pirating them. So I get to keep playing games on Yuzu latest build runs great 60fps on most games even without update for switch roms. With very little bugs and glitches so'm still very happy that I have a copy of dead emulator on my Odin 2 that I'll never get rid of!*
fr its so sad no more citra update especially on android
You know what's more absurd? Some years from now, Nintendo will probably use yuzu code to emulate switch in their current console.
Most likely... Just like they use pirated ROM dumps
That wouldn't make any sense, they could've used open-source emulators for NSO games but instead they made all in-house emulators, so I doubt they'd use any Yuzu code for emulation in the future. Most likely they'll just use it to create tighter security around how future Switch successor games are encrypted.
@@Last_Colossi Who's to say they didn't go through the open source codebase. It's only logical to do so. And there is precedence for them doing so.
Seems like some people have no experience in the real world. How do people come up with this stuff?
@@Last_Colossi Console makers have been using open source emulators to resell their old games for decades, my guy.
Citra being downed is absurd.
If it wasn't developed by the same developers as Yuzu it would most likely still be up and running. But I agree wholeheartedly.
@@brandongabelDeveloped? Thought they were only funded by them.
@@ryulanda9399 Lead developer was the same person on both I believe
Bruh they owe nintendo 2.4 million and that was without even going to court. It would be absurd for them not to be careful
Nintendo is literally making the same argument record companies did when mp3 players started to catch on. The idea that something can be used to enable piracy equals "encouraging" piracy is so stupid.
I've been an emulation fan going back to when MAME was a one person project. The Yuzu situation reminds me of Ultra-HLE (N64 emulator) and Bleem (PSX emulator). Both of these came out during the lifetime of the hardware it emulated, and both got smacked down by Nintendo / Sony.
It was a blow to the emulation scene, but as you know, N64 and PSX emulation is alive and well today. Emulating systems is not illegal, and as long as the emulator developers avoid making money off of their work (and avoid current systems of course) then they will be fine. Emulation is not going anywhere.
Exactly
Profit is not an issue. Bleem won their case against Sony. Sony didn’t smack them down in a conventional sense. They went bankrupt due to litigation costs.
Bleem was freaking insane. They too gave nay damn, similar to Yuzu and shared a similar fate w/o surprising anyone.
@@Bob_Smith19the issue with yuzu was cracking their cryptographic keys and distributing them. The devs were pretty careless and it’s a very fine line to walk with emulation and they crossed it multiple times. There’s still projects like ryujinx which so far avoided litigation and it’s a great alternative, it’s not too far behind and in some cases performs better.
The suit against yuzu is less about emulation and more about cracking.
Bleem didn't get smacked down. They won. But they went bankrupt from costs
Thanks for providing a very well thought out and professional perspective on the Yuzu / Nintendo situation. Your channel is always one of the best when it comes to emulation and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your information and advice on the preservation of these systems, and their respective audio and visual art. Keep up the great work!
Whoa, whoa there, buddy. I didn't even have time to grab a snack and drink, because dang it I need one after this news.
Ha ! Nice 😉
Yea probably a strong one like a vodka or whiskey 😢
@@wongwwy Facts
I love the push for retro emulation for the ability for us to keep enjoying these pieces of media history that have been lost to the wind. I can understand what is going on with this situation and know people always find ways to work around it.
Being able to keep those memories fresh and these pieces of history and art alive is what brings me the most joy. The digital domain is finding its place in antiquated history and I don't want to see it turned to digital dust in the wind.
Thanks for your thoughts on the topic Russ.
By pirating yet another copy of Mario Brothers?
Ah yeah Switch, my favourite retro console that needs it's games being keep alive because you totally can't get them anymore.
@@TakisEnjoyerYou don't seem to understand that the Switch and its games WILL be made unavailable eventually and when that day comes it's too late for developers to get as good of a look as they can now. Especially early firmware revisions are instrumental in getting a closer look. Emulation is ALWAYS ethical and piracy is NEVER theft.
@PuffyRainbowCloud no other mainstream console was emulated this early on while still at retail, and they turned out fine. And switch games are still dumped upon release regardless. So this yuzu thing isn't impacting preservation if that was the concern. This just impacts people for the near future wanting to emulate switch in the present, and mainly just android users considering pc has another Switch emulator.
@@TakisEnjoyerDid you ever compare BotW/ToTK on original hardware vs a decent gaming PC with mods? They're hardly even the same game / experience. Taking away emulation from these games would be like forcing you to play Skyrim without mods, on a PC from the time around when it came out.
Ryujinx just had UI improvements in latest update. A much nicer game layout now. I liked how Yuzu handled game controllers better though.
but does it run games better?
@@ninjason57 It's a case by case situation. Ryujinx usually runs games with less glitches, but it's usually a little bit more demanding. In contrast, if Yuzu has problems with a specific game, maybe Ryujinx doesn't and soon.
Ryujinx focuses on compatibility and accuracy, sacrificing performance.
Yuzu was the other way around and focused on performance.
I wish it was on Android
@@ninjason57 The rule of thumb was that yuzu has worse game compatibility, but games that had it play better than ryujinx. I only play 1 game on yuzu and the rest on ryujinx for the better features
Nintendo first party exclusives aside, the thousands of indie and third party titles are usually widely available on other platforms - notably, Steam, where they're likely to work on PCs for years to come.
Interestingly, when pirates can't play third-party games on PC due to DRM that is difficult to crack, they would often turn to Yuzu to play it instead. Prince of Persion The Lost Crown is a recent example.
@@Zamzumminstar ocean too
Well presented and well thought out Russ! Well done.
You can get it off Internet archive
Internet Archive still has the latest Yuzu and Citra builds since they seem to be exempt. Even if Nintendo goes after them there are torrent sites and even Usenet. It is impossible to erase anything from the internet.
Based
Yes, the emulator itself is never going to disappear. Once it's out there, any file on the internet will continue to be spread around.
But it will no longer be worked on until someone else forks it (assuming it is open-source, which some of these projects aren't).
Citra is the real loss here. Yuzu isn't important, there's already Ryujinx. It's a loss to not have TWO emulators, but far worse is to have none, as is the case with Citra.
So, hopefully someone else picks up the slack. There are too many possibilities in the 3DS emulation world to let it end with the morons behind Citra who allowed themselves to be sued by not taking the necessary precautions.
noo don't tell our secrets😂
@@daktheavking9357 nintendo already knows, and is powerless, and butthurt, and that makes all of us happy.
I literally got yuzu and citra setup on my Retroid 4 Pro right before the take down.. so lucky. Thanks for the content RGC, don't slow down.
They aren't disappearing...
@@Guitario666 No but they are moderately harder to get now, and some content creators have been removing how to guides. Smug isn't an attractive look Guitario666
@Oddoad6001 but it's super easy to find. I just downloaded the latest version after going to I.A.
@@Guitario666 Feels like your purposefully being obtuse. for both emulators the wiki guides are all down and the FAQ's, meaning barrier or entry for people is going to be harder. What file formats does Citra and Yuzu support? What does X setting actually change? Yes you can find all of that on forums and other places, but the barrier of entry is much harder now without it all. I am very aware that with some effort you can find what your looking for, but the ease of use just went away.
@@Oddoad6001 no need to worry. all the videos will be back up (people will make new ones) after the whole thing die down in a few weeks time. at the moment, everyone is in reaction mode. and i', certain you can find the wiki guides, and all that on internet archive.
Great video Russ. Listened while I cooked on the grill. Thanks for the entertainment!
The issue wasn't emulation, but the fact totk was leaked before the actual release of the game and Yuzu devs actively profited from it before even Nintendo did it. We have to thank Yuzu and Citra's shutdown to all these folks around the internet bragging about how "smart" they're for playing totk even before de "morans" who bought it. The emulation community weakens because of such behavior! When we make emulation about piracy the big companies gain resources to strike harder and even destroy whole niches of emulation. But when it's made about access and preservation this community is UNSTOPPABLE! I wish everyone had seen it!
I'm glad that the last version of Yuzu was pretty solid in performance and that version should last us for a while. It runs almost any switch game I've tried. The handheld market is obviously more impacted than PC since Ryujinx is still a great emulator and is still in development.
Will I still be able to use my yuzu?
@@giogames13yes it should work fine
@@JasonBornTV yay thank you 😊
@@giogames13 unfortunately nintendo is on its way to your house to take it from you :/
@@giogames13Yes you can use it freely! 🙏
Definitely a respectable approach to the future of emulation and your videos moving forward. I'm still interested in every other existing emulator with new and old handhelds alike, so I'll be watching regardless of the unfortunate halt in Yuzu and Citra development and inability to showcase them without the risk Nintendork striking you down. Love the work you're doing and appreciate the update on your channel after all that's happened!
It is important to note that Yuzu was not deemed illegal by a judge, and therefore, they were not fined $2.4 million. Yuzu decided to settle with Nintendo for that amount because they were aware that they would lose the case. Their downfall was due to the fact that they created a Patreon account and shared ROMs on Google Drive. If future developers don't set up a Patreon and share ROMS, they will be all right.
Just a quick note, Ryujinx got an entirely new UI in a major update this past weekend, you might want to check it out.
Thanks, I'll check it out!
My thoughts are 🫡
I think the patreon also gave Nintendo real numbers to understand how yuzu was being used when TOTK was launched. Without the subscriber count and the early access incentive nintendo would have virtually no way of prooving that pirated copies of TOTK were being emulated. As oppose to just being played on a hacked switch
Yep, and the updates they pumped out during that period really shown money being the main goal there. Should stay low profile man, such a shame
Didn't the lawsuit state TOTK was pirated more than a million times? That's not something they got via Patreon. That's torrent IP logging.
@@RandomPlaceHolderNameseriously though, I'd really really like to know how they got that information.
@@RandomPlaceHolderNamethe thing is their discord patreon server have roms uploaded for devs to try and test.
@@IceYetiWinsthey most likely made it up. And by made it I mean “estimation”.
Someone will use a clone of the last repo and keep Citra and yuzu running, if not under the same name. A popular manga app, tachiyomi, had the same issue, and someone picked up the torch within 24 hours.
@@bananatoofat they're literally already up
yep there is one ik of called suyu (Sue You) yes thats what they actually call the fork....
I'll give it six months maybe less. They'll be a workaround for both emulators for sure. All Nintendo did was create a challenge for us to overcome.
*SEND IN THE CLONES*
@@bananatoofatsomebody forked Yuzu 2hrs after it was taken down on Reddit.
This is a really big bummer. Im pretty new to the retro emulation community, about 6 months, and this is the first big blow to emulation I’ve experienced.
As for the future, I’d love to at least see performance benchmarks for switch on these new devices with the next best available switch emulator. But it’s totally understandable if that’s not doable right now. I’d love to see the 3DS and Japanese 3DS modding videos. I see tons on marketplace in my area and have always been curious to get one and tinker.
We’ll be fine through this, it’s just a change to adjust to. Thanks for keeping the community alive and well Russ! :)
Switch is not retro, hence why it got smacked down extra by Big N. Us old timers know not to poke the bear and draw attention to this hobby. Still lots of retro games to play so keep playing PS2/Gamecube and older titles. Lots of gems there. I'm sure Nintendo is trying to find ways to shut down Ryujinx as well. I would not be surprised if we see DMCA challenges on github start happening.
@@vlesmeriesNah, the Ryujinx guys are doing low profile stuff right now and aren't involved on stuff like leaked Tears Of The Kingdom ROMs before launch.
The creator is a brazillian and emulators are legal on Brazil, if Nintendo wants to take it down, then it would have trouble with Brazil's government.
Nice level headed approach. Its nice to hear an unbiased explanation
Glad I downloaded the latest update
Ditto that
yea and made it portable too
@@_GarethRossUK facts 💯
I mean, it's not like it would be hard to find. Just like game roms, it will be reuploaded everywhere.
@@jasonrodriguez2963problem is any vulnerabilities going forward won't be patched
This is the concern I have when "buying" videos as well, from Amazon, etc. Will they always be available? But while I understand the Yuzu takedown, I agree with you that 3DS emulation through Citra should have been left alone. If it's not an active system, it moves into the realm of preservation. At some point, the technology available to physically play games on the older systems will not exist, and emulation will be the solution.
I'd like to see a video on the Japanese 3DS system, as well as jailbreaking and set-up, as my current 3DS is no longer working.
Thanks for the video!
This is kind-of a solved issue as well. Digital isn't great but one thing that does get backed up is blurays, and they use a similar key decryption scheme on them. This is called the AACS encryption key, having these keys isn't illegal because they are required to play media you own. But it's very much a similar situation to Nintendo, where Toshiba really wants you to watch Blurays their way, but the prevailing legal sentiment is that having the keys on another device to play media you purchased isn't a legal battle anyone wants to have because going that route isn't likely to win.
I mean Nintendo makes a lot of money, but they have no way of proving that people who pirated the game would have bought it otherwise (or turned around and DID buy it), and the amount of "loss" is so little compared to the fire they've started in the emulation community now. There are so many forks of forks of repos and some are private and people are already working to obfuscate the Yuzu code and maintain the emulator, it's become a race, Nintendo may have done more harm to themselves than good.
I got stung last week when I bought the ES-DE (emulation Station) from Amazon app store.
And then Amazon took it down.
And there is no refund option here int he UK store 😂 booooo-urns
i can guarantee you they will not always be available..
@@tybera1114if someone is/was never going to buy the game, what makes them think they are entitled to experience it anyways? i understand if its old games u cannot buy anymore, but if its something that is still readily available pirates have no moral ground to stand on.
“The way they allow you to play”
To bad Nintendo, I don't WANT to play on a 7 year old console with a 2013 PHONE chip with a 2-3 hour battery life
@@milesharris249
Then dont play it? You have no right to steal from them
@@DracoMeteor91 calm down ur just mad cause you regret wasting ur money on it, I own a ps5 I have no reason to stoop down to the weaker console
@@milesharris249 I prefer a switch to a ps5. At least I have games to play on switch
@@waddleburr8048 😐 hahaha 😐
I believe Switch emulation shows a few things: 1) there is a desire to carry fewer devices that serve more functions, and 2) there might be some frustration with Switch performance. It is no secret that the handheld is using a SoC that is roughly a decade old at this stage, and even top end devices rarely last so long. If we could measure those two driving forces, I wonder what they would translate into in terms of raw numbers. I assume Nintendo probably has some marketing/product strategists that have a better picture of this, but I a sure those sales figures act as a strong counterpoint. I would love to be a fly on the wall for those conversations.
It's a POS since launch and isn't worth the plastic
I mean if you want to be real it showed there were a lot of people that would rather play for free rather than pay money... i mean lets be real thats the number one reason.
@@alexoelkers2292 I dunno. Buying a device is a pretty big investment vs just the games.
Always appreciate your candor and positivity. I look forward to seeing where the channel goes. You're a national treasure!
I think the 3DS video ideas sound great! Looking forward to those!
i don't give a shit what nintendo says, i am emulating all of their systems and will continue to do so.
The code for the early access builds was available to everyone. Only the builds were paywalled.
Most people weren't building it themselves. The Yuzu team painted a target on themselves by pay-walling binaries. It may have been legal, but it was a bad idea.
And those builds were even redistributed by the community as well.
Some people have uploaded all the EA and mainline builds to an archivery somewhere somehow , some time. 💪
EA 276 I think was mentioned
@@GareWorks that's so incorrect. you don't need to build it yourself. what was it called? pineapple ea. people compiled everything and shared it as soon as yuzu released it. you didn't need to build anything and you get it the same time.
This was an amazing discussion on the topic. All sides were intelligently dissected and it’s honestly, just great journalism, which I don’t think we always think of when watching CZcams. Ha.
Great to hear a measured reponse to the last few days news!
THEY. WERE. CHARGING. MONEY. We had this conversation about emulators decades ago - defenders made the argument that reverse-engineering hardware was a purely scientific endeavor. That was the protection emulators had and Yuzu painted a huge target on their backs by abandoning that. The age of the console was inconsequential.
Looking forward to seeing where you go with the channel, Russ. 🎉
Lets be honest here, 99% of people using Yuzu were pirating games.
And about 99% of those people would never have bought Nintendo games anyways so it really doesn't cut into Nintendo's profit
Especially 3rd world countries emulate and download these games but how many people in the 3rd world countries have powerful enough system PC or mobile that can run it at acceptable frames without hiccups.
The point about creators pushing Yuzu as part of its downfall is really interesting to me. Yuzu was the first time I can recall that people touted an emulator as an alternative to a modern console. Cemu was kind of like that, but only for BOTW really
Also I hope CitraVR can continue, I really think it's the definitive way to play 3DS, even better than the actual 3DS
This happened with VPN. People couldn't shut up about VPN subverting streaming platforms, so now every streaming service blocks VPNs.
brasil rapa, ninguem entra aqui nao, jamais vao tirar o ryujinx de nós
Algum dev br trabalhando com 3ds?
😂
I did see it coming thanks for the analysis on the matter, Russ
Ryujinx has update/patch/gamefix almost every day I open it, big respect for its team.
Stay Retro folks. History tells us that messing with stuff that is still on the shelf is not retro.
Not paying nintendo $250 to play a couple games
Fuck nintendo
That's my thought mate
We live in strange times and I think this is just the beginning of the end. It was nice to experience the golden age of emulation.
Time to bury the external hardrives in the woods somewhere
Stop being dramatic, this suit means literally nothing that we don't know, it ain't boundary pushing at all.
in my opinion *"Content Creators and bad actors are to blame"* for blowing this up
Dumb
No. People fear mongering Nintendo's ridiculous and hole-filled claims, and spreading misinfo because of it, is why the settlement happened. Yuzu EA could NOT play TOTK when it leaked up to release, Ryujinx could meanwhile (and they banned any mentions of mods to fix that in their discord). Yuzu EA is "paywalled" except it isnt since the source code was always open, you could build it yourself, and already-built EA versions were available in multiple places. A lot of Nintendo's claims in the lawsuit are either grossly false or disgusting statements that are so broad in nature that it intimidates the person being sued to not take it to court, out of fear of precedent and validating the disgusting statements in future cases. Nobody bothers to learn the full context around Yuzu, the patreon or the lawsuit.
Yuzu could be compiled for free. You didnt need EA its just convenient. Also Ryu had TOTK working before Yuzu and i was there to see lol
Great chat Russ! Re: testing Switch emulation on new devices, maybe u could test on Ryujinx, but show literal footage of the game on Switch? So we'd more listen to the words than the visuals.
I don't have your numbers - but I have purposefully stayed away from covering anything surrounding the Switch. It has NEVER felt right to me to enable people to essentially steal "current gen" content. I'm not anti-emulation. But imagine what Sony or Xbox would be doing to people if PS5/Xbox games were being pirated, playable on whatever hardware and in some cases, play better? Of course they would go after everyone. Somehow Nintendo is "the devil" for doing it; but truth is - emulating a current gen system is no different than taking the latest AAA game on and pirating it. This isn't "abandonware". This has ZERO to do with preservation. It is about piracy. Nintendo doesn't "tolerate" emulation well - but they don't go for the throat unless the line is crossed fairly far. That's what happened here.
There is another 3DS emulator for both PC and Android (Mikage) in development, as well. They've already stated that they plan to continue development despite recent events.
I'm surprised by the number of people who genuinely cannot see any issue with an emulator that targets a company's _current console_ on the market, and which lets you play those games at higher framerates and resolutions.
That, coupled with how people would brag about how they were playing some Switch games ahead of their public release, is essentially saying 🖕🏻 you to Nintendo.
Are people really now **surprised Pikachu face** that Nintendo's lawyers have said: no, 🖕🏻 you!
🤷🏻♂️
I personally think it’s bad form to crack games with a current system still selling games and publicizing that fact. I know it is going to happen but should remain on the down low until the system sunsets. The PSP got raped. If I recall it was done by a fella out of Brazil and took a long time before he was pushed into a corner. But a corner he did find himself with big Sony gorillas with suits.
If you want to be smart about Emulation just wait till the company has stopped selling the system you want to emulate said games. Don’t be on CZcams and be like, “ HEY look what I can do and 🖕you!”
Ty for saying the most obvious thing that people seem do don't understand
I think its surprising because it took so long for it to happen
As a Monster Hunter player - I know Citra was collateral damage, but I am utterly disgusted by Nintendo shutting down Citra the same month they're shutting down MH4U servers. There's no way to play MH4U now. It's anti-consumerism at its finest.
Im tired of hearing the argument,"because they pirated, i lost a sale."
Someone being able to pirate something does not mean they would have bought it
It also doesn't factor in those of us who pirate games to try them out, then buy a physical copy later on.
No it does not mean that 100% but there is still a huge correlation. It definitely does take away some potential sales
Devil’s advocate, but piracy definitely leads to less overall sales all things considered
@@darth_hyliancorrelation hahahaha
There is no any proof of that
You can spin it whatever, to their eyes its -60 dollar every single time people torrent that thing. And their army of lawyers and ninjas are going to convince the judge and jury one way or another
Mines is I’ve never played Citra before I still have it thank god.
2. I never own switch emulation on my pc it still be virus. I’ll covering it for future until switch is discontinued before until next gen for Nintendo.
3.I’m sure 3DSpanda is 3DS emulator can’t wait for trying it soon as possible.
4. It makes me sad about they taken down on emuparadies, yuzu or skyline and Dolphin on Steam.
5. I’m looking forward to it for new emulations,
that my end of story.
💀virus....
That was a beautiful story 🥲
Google translate destroyed you.
Huh
Some people are already working on a new fork of Yuzu called Suyu. I was watching them develop it live. It was awesome!
Tell em dev to stay low profile this time lol. None of those patreon paywall crap
@@reighaillness They aren't doing the Patreon thing as well as many other things.
That name is hilarious.
Actually... it occurred to me... If Nintendo now owns all of Yuzu's stuff, does that mean the previously open source code is now property of Nintendo?
In other words, if anyone builds on the legacy of Yuzu's code, can Nintendo just immediately squash it because Yuzu code itself belongs to Nintendo?
@@linkonprimeluckily even if it's owned by Nintendo, the code has an open source license, so Nintendo can't do anything about Yuzu source code being used in forks, because the license states that it can be used.
Basically, it's impossible to kill a project using the source code unless they manage to make emulators illegal which I don't see happening any time soon.
Yuzu and Citra will love on. They were both open source and now people are pissed off at Nintendo, especially hackers and hobbiest developers
Appreciate the solid summary Russ
So Switch - We got Ryujinx, we good.
3DS - What was left for Citra to do, that can't be picked up in a few years? Go get a backup of Citra, it's like a Hydra as people are saying, it's not going anywhere, so we're good there too.
Lets be chill and enjoy giving Nintendo the bird, this is Streisanding really badly for them, and I'm glad that Nintendo will lose out because they're "a holes"
Great video Russ,
I knew Yuzu was over when they had day 1 patches for new games, no way they can get away with that in court.
Day one isn't what sunk them. The pay walled, before day one is that final nail in their ⚰️
@@washuai true but it added to it because they would have dev logs showing they had access to game before it was out
Piracy has never been linked to loss of sales or profit. People who pirate were never going to buy the game anyway, but by pirating it and playing it those people are actually MORE likely they will purchase the game, to have an up to date and supported version. Piracy gets companies more sales than it loses.
They'll never admit it.
yeah whatever
As if I'd give a fuck about a company that makes billions upon billions every year while gatekeeping most of their legacy library. Fuck Nintendo.
How much Robux do you think Johnny Depp has?
@@darth_hylian100 dollars Australian
@@darth_hylian that's not exactly a secret is it? Several million for his kind of position is quite a salary.
@@Momo4060i 300 Robux
@@darth_hylian That's still a ridicoulus amount for the work he's putting in. What point exactly are you trying to make? You're not going to convince a pirate that those companies are playing a fair game, lmfao.
Bleem and Virtual Game Station were awesome PS1 emulators back in the day, and it hurt to lose those products that I paid for. It took many years, but now we have some incredible emulators that strive for accuracy, not just zero-day compatibility (as impressive as that is from the user's perspective, it's a nightmare for publishers). The Yuzu model was quite the anomaly in the emulation scene; we just just need to recall the past and practice patience.
Everybody who says "emulation is dead" is being overwrought and unnecessarily dramatic. Nintendo may stamp out Citra and Yuzu, but others will take their place, and multiple generations of emulation of MANY consoles inside and outside of Nintendo's control aren't going away either.
Its a bummer from the present stand point. For the future, its very likely a fork will pick up Yuzu's work and go from there. Same for Citra. Its just a matter of time until even more alternatives exist, so yeah, its fucked now, indiferent in the future.
Smart decisions Russ. Thanks for the fireside chat ✌🏻
thank you for the info and also for not yelling angrily at the camera like some other CZcamsrs.
Nintendo KNOWS they're making dead systems harder. They want to sell it back to you as a subscription. A game that is no longer in print on a system that is no longer sold should not be protected by law.
This is quite the video to see when i open youtube the day my odin 2 gets delivered...
u shouldnt care too much about it since you can still download yuzu or citra. Just look for forks of those projects (Many ppl forked the project already and some even try to further develop it).
They was making 30,000 a month from yuzu. Nintendo doesnt like that. Saying that Nintendo doesnt like anything.
I personally think Nintendo has the right to shut down emulation of their current hardware, which undoubtedly is promoting piracy of their games. But losing Citra in the crossfire is a huge bummer.
But seeing how Nintendo hasn’t taken action against emulators for previous systems, I do feel like if someone reintroduced a Citra-“inspired” emulator they would likely leave it alone. So long as no money is being made off of it
One of Dolphin founders last year said that for all the 💩 people give Nintendo they're usually pretty nice to their legacy console emulation communities. And they need to be poked really hard for them to do something about it.
I feel like if Yuzu was released in 2026 they would be more than safe
I have to tell you, I really appreciate you and what you do. I’m new to all of this and am also of the same mindset of being able to play all of the retro systems in one place is fantastic. As a switch owner, being able to play those games was just gravy. I guess we have to stay tuned.
Idea: use a graphic to show gaming performance for yuzu going forward for games and then use b roll to show other games while you talk about it.
The "it's a current console" argument is completely moot. I appreciate a lot of folks may be too young, but Sony and Nintendo lost various lawsuits in the 90s against emulators that were emulating what were at the time current systems. The most famous of which being Bleem which made headlines for running certain PS1 games on Sega hardware, but was a full fat PS1 emulator years prior on PC, at a time where the PS1 was very much a current system.
Emulators are not illegal and there are literally legal precedents affirming this. The issue is due to the wonderful legal system the US employs companies such as Nintendo can simply litigate the defendant into oblivion, even if legally they are in the clear. Nintendo simply wanted a quick payday and for those Yuzu devs this was the easy way out. Trying to justify such aggression from a multi-billion dollar company who will not respect the law is nothing more than fanboyism
It doesn't cut into Nintendo's profits if you were never going to buy a Switch in the first place
"How are my kids going to play these games in the future?" As a father, this question resonates so deeply... We'll just keep the preservation effort going Russ!! Thanks for the thoughts man. Love what you're doing.
How did you set up your crt tv over the shelves to show footage like that ??
We flew too close to the sun
CZcamsr responsibility is definitely not a stance most would take. Mad respect for talking about the impact CZcamsrs have on these communities.
It’s a difficult line to walk when spotlighting stuff because you want people to know how great it is, but the last thing you want is everyone to flock to your paradise and ruin a great thing.
This is something that has happened with retro game collecting and I think the transition translates to underground gaming as well. Nobody wants to take responsibility for highlighting something with the possibility that it could ruin a great thing.
I don’t think CZcamsrs ruined yuzu but I think that its popularity wake is something that should be considered especially when it can set the stage for the future of emulation. If a company has bad business practices that can hurt the community I think it should definitely be left in the shadows. That said, I don’t think most CZcamsrs highlight or are aware of these practices so it can’t fall on them for its demise.
Honestly I think we can thank Nintendo for highlighting the faults of bad emulation practices so that we can adjust its course and better protect its future.
I would love to see some Analogue Pocket stuff, emulation, new adapters and newest firmware update etc.
New fork of Yuzu's already announced
Wow that quick!
About 4 of them so far 😂
@@DarkAbyss9 sweet
This kills any interest I had in getting the switch 2. I’ll stick with my steam deck and give valve my money.
Very sensible and reasonable discussion man, well done! 🥰
What a bummer. I had hoped it would go to court and Nintendo would have lost. Now they've 'won', and it could be a potential harm for the future of emulation cases.
Dont worry yall. Pirates will find the way forward. We always do. You cant be anti piracy while using Emulators. Yall can act like you are. But without the pirates yall wouldnt have Sh%t. 🏴☠
Develop these emulators in Africa, piracy is basically legal here, if you were to take someone to court for piracy here the judge will laugh at you
Yuzu literally had patches for TOTK behind their patreon before the game released lol. The knowingly profited from piracy and Nintendo had them
Yeah they got caught up for being greedy.
Think this is a bit disingenuous, the paywall was on early access builds not so much on the patches.
I really appreciate all the work done for all emulators - past and present consoles. I think it’s awesome that we can play Switch games on Steam Deck and other platforms. That being said - I don’t think we should be emulating current gen systems. It just paints too much of a target on our backs to companies like Nintendo. If Yuzu hadn’t been profiting off of the project in any way - I don’t think Nintendo would have gone after them. The problem (at least with Switch emulation in my opinion) has never been that emulation takes place - it’s that piracy takes place. I have a modded switch and have backed up all my games and have some loaded on my Steam Deck, but I have never given my game files to anyone else, nor have I downloaded/recieved game files from anyone else. That’s all fine and well given the results of Sony v. Bleem and Sony v. Connectix. I don’t want to see anything change in regards to the legality of emulation BUT if Nintendo is so gung-ho about changing things - start a new case that addresses emulation in modern terms. So many people talk about how the Sony emulation cases were decided 20+ years ago and they are no longer relevant. I personally think they are - but times changes. Piracy is the main issue here - and that’s harder to tackle. When games leak ahead of time and people can play them via emulators - that CAN eat into potential sales. Not always - I know some people will pirate the game prior to official launch, play it, and still buy it when it comes out. Sure - Nintendo didn’t lose any money from that customer - however if that person shares gameplay online, or redistributes the game files with others - those others may not behave the same. Maybe they see gameplay that doesn’t look good (because of the emulation quality) and decide not to buy it even though it would play better on official hardware (they just wouldn’t know about that prior to launch). It’s because of these bad actors that the emulation scene has such a target painted on our backs. Until people stop promoting piracy - this issue will never go away. And by that I mean that I know it will never go away.
As a now former subscriber, I respectfully disagree with your optics on this issue but still hope you deservedly continue to do well on CZcams.
I agree with the fact that some of these people should be compensated for what they are doing and I've always wondered why they were never set up like a non-profit organization or non-profit company to begin with?
The way it was set up now, was just asking for trouble.
Get ready kids we're setting Sail!
You make some good and well thought out points. I have never done any Nintendo Switch emulation, simply because I didn't want to jailbreak my Switch to back up my games and risk being locked out of my Nintendo account, even though I have an earlier version of the Switch console that can be more readily jail broken. I bought my Steam Deck LCD, and subsequently Steam Deck OLED, to primarily play the games in my Steam library, as I especially like the Steam Deck's console experience. I have experimented with emulation on the Steam Deck, so I could play my GBA games that I really liked, but I can no longer play on my GBA console because it failed. I also play Zelda BOTW and Metroid Prime on my Steam Deck, but I bought the Nintendo WiiU games versions for the Deck, in addition to having already bought them as game cartridges for the Switch, so I paid Nintendo twice for the experience, as I prefer playing these two games on my Steam Deck compared with my Nintendo Switch. I do wish Nintendo would spend as much money / effort on improving their customer experience as they do on litigation. Nintendo's recent antics and sharp practices of effectively making you buy the same game many times over as you upgrade to their newer gaming consoles, discouraged me from buying an OLED Nintendo Switch, and leaves me questioning should I reward such behaviour and buy a Nintendo Switch 2, should one ever be released. Why don't Nintendo take a leaf out of Sony's book, and release some of their back catalogue of old console games for the PC. Most modern PC gaming consoles have touch screens and gyros etc. that would allow them to readily play PC versions of old DS and 3DS games, and then I wouldn't need to mess around with emulation. I recently re-imaged my Steam Deck LCD, and didn't bother with reinstalling EMUDeck etc, and instead focussed on my Steam Library and XBox Cloud gaming, so I could stream some of my XBox Game Pass games to my Steam Deck which works really well after adding the relevant Microsoft provided Edge shortcuts and artwork to my Steam Library.
Thanks!
Wow 10$😮
If Nintendo would keep their online shops open there would be less of an argument for emulation. Sony is guilty of this too with the PS3. (I'm unfamiliar with how Microsoft/Xbox does things.)
Gabe Newell said it best: Piracy is an issue of service, not price.
The people who side with Nintendo on this are essentially saying, "Will someone please think of the poor billion dollar mega corporation!".
Still not an excuse to justify piracy, no matter how big the company is.
@@tldr365 I think it is. Especially if the game can't be purchased anymore.
After thinking on this for a few days, I think there are generational differences at play here. Who didn’t have a “neighborhood” copy of software in the 80s and 90s? I remember in my high school Cisco Networking class, we had a copy of Windows XP that was passed around prior to release by a few days. Our teacher over heard us talking and kind of called us out, kind of hurt he wasn’t offered it early. Apple became what it is today because Napster and Limewire, etc all got shutdown while iTunes made it affordable and easy to pay what we now know is for the ability to access a license, not actually own it like physical. Who didn’t have mixtapes and recorded shows off their VCR? …I’m still curious why companies haven’t tried to ban DVRs…
I think we have a culture that toes the piracy line with different feelings based on different upbringings, both generationally, but also regarding what is and isn’t perceived piracy. Obviously there are legal definitions, but there are also plenty of laws that are no longer enforced, but still in the books. Piracy can obviously be enforced, but even Nintendo seems to pick its battles.
Ultimately- devs, stop pre-release compatibility, if not all current gen emulation. Stop pay walls - I’m fine with “$5 to remove ads” or “$5 coffee donation”, but the optics of “Pay $10 to get this additional access” seems a little too far. Publishers need to do better, too. We need options to preserve purchases and not be expected to pay multiple times to play things on current hardware - Steam has done it for years and years! Windows still has Windows Phone purchases I made. C’mon Nintendo!
Both yuzu and citra were open source. They have already been revived by different groups. We should be focusing more on Nintendo's insanity and less on emulators that will continue to exist.
R.I.P. Yuzu and Citra 😢
I feel like making my own version of Yuzu and calling it YouSue.
Hello Russ,
Highly appreciate your high quality videos over the years. Thank you!
I think you can still show your 3DS and N.Switch emulation results but not mentioning the emulator’s names. Tell your audiences to check your older videos to get to know what emulators were used, “because of many reasons”.
That makes your videos remain high quality by not missing 3DS and N.Switch results.
I hope you would keep it on. All the best!
Citra being taken down is insane. Nintendo doesn't even support the 3ds anymore..
Was waiting on your response 👌
Great video, Russ. I saw someone in the comments of MVG's video speculating that Nintendo chose this time to strike once they had a solid case because the Switch 2 is going to have a similar OS and API layers.
It feels like this is an extremely unique case because gaming is so much bigger now, and the Switch is so underpowered.