Music and the Patterns of Mind and World
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- čas přidán 29. 09. 2015
- This is a TVO lecture about the Meaning of Music, delivered, I believe, in 2006, for the Royal Canadian Institute for the Advancement of Science.
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Based on this intro, 2006 took place in the 1980s.
Stiggandr1 this was only in 2006??
Its Canada
Dude it's crazy I forgot how old JP is and just thought, oh yeah must be a remeastered 80s video or something
🤣
hahah reminds me of Reading Rainbow
14 years ago, Jordan Peterson was spreading knowledge, love, and the pursuit of meaning just as he is today. Gotta love this guy's persistence and consistency.
Watch his younger videos
He just tears it up
"Music expresses meaning to you whether you understand it or not. That's one of the reasons it is an imperishable art." (I sometimes can't believe these are just free on the internet.)
This lecture was more like just tiny intro...
We want MORE about music, Dr. Peterson!!!
Thank you and God bless!
@Haruki-Kun Piano Me to😃I'm wondering what music really does to the 🧠. they should scan somebody's brain while they are improvising from the heart on an instrument vs just listening!!
Such a phenomenal lecture. I feel like when he talks he is creating art.
You were always brilliant, all you are doing now is polishing the diamond. Thank you so much.
The mental flexibility and strength is amazing to witness, and thankful we have minds like his.
I'm an artist, I just recently got out of college and I'm at my early 20s, which is the age when people usually start a job or a career. Lately, I have been so anxious about not having a "job" like anyone else, even though I am relatively successful in my art practice (selling and showing at galleries). I think my anxiety came from feeling that I am not as responsible as people who have jobs that have a clear purpose, but this lecture by Dr.Peterson thought me the reason why I should continue on this path strong. He articulated something that already I knew I was doing deep inside, but couldn't comprehend well. Now that I know, it gives me more confidence in pursuing what I am pursuing, and not to give it up naively. Thank you Dr.Peterson for sharing gold!
Dr. Peterson is truly a brilliant human being, and I’m grateful that I heard and read about him and his work. I truly appreciate what you do to humanity Dr. Peterson.
I really love Dr. Peterson's soft-spokenness here. It makes him a bit more likable and relatable, at least to me
Having produced 160 pieces of music. I just love this lecture.
Since its all music, technically you've produced 1 music with 160 pieces?
@@patbrumfield3624 thats how it feels
@@patbrumfield3624 where is your music?
@@marvingoldstein4594 what's your point? I said that cause i thought it was clever not to bash on the guy im sure hes doing well.
@@patbrumfield3624 don’t worry, I took it the wrong way first too, but then understood what you meant.
What an amazing lecture. I'd die to attend one of these lectures.
Mister Peterson really makes me reconsider my field of study! But most important of all, he manages to put into words thoughts I've had in disarray within me about our perception and our reality.
Truly amazing stuff.
this is better ... you get to watch the parts you missed in the lecture ... and remain ageless ... Dr. Peterson might be a messiah to some folks ... but he does age
this is one of his best lectures
this is such a treasure that I have to listen to this again AND keep notes. JBP rolling again on such thin ice like music, dance and subliminal meaning behind. Is there anybody in the world who can cover such topic like he does?
Try art historians and music historians. Some of them do comparable things, but they will discuss less about the structure of human psychology because they are not psychologists like Dr. Peterson. However, they can go into specifics about meaning and connect it, instead of to the human motivational system and the question of reality approached phenomenologically, to common strands of meaning manifested in very different media (ex: music, sculpture, drama). For example, I don't agree that we don't know what music means or that we can't discuss it in words. (And my master's is in classical piano.) Listen to great conductors talk about works they perform, and some of them can explain to an inspiring and illuminating extent what the music is about. Musicologists sometimes do it too - for example, with Shostakovich. And I found Dr. Peterson's comments on what music expresses to be very objective (which maybe sounds strange given how he construes reality, especially in this lecture) or at least very object-oriented/thing-oriented, whereas if you listen to someone who is less of a scientist, you can expect explanations of what the patterns represent, explanations either by analyzing the musical material itself or by reference to nonmusical representations of the same meaning.
I didn't know he designed that picture. ..learn something new everyday
ＭＥＡＮＩＮＧＷＡＶＥ 波を意味する
@@Viriyascybin jp interviewed this man bucko
@@aidenrajkovic7099 Both things are true
I LOVE AKIRA THE DOOOOOOOON ❤️❤️❤️❤️
I'm writing 11 years after this lecture and it's cool to have scientists are on their way to cracking this framing problem with AIs. Neural Networks FTW.
"Cool" is one way to look at it. Children playing with dynamite is another way.
oh so cute, he's just a baby in this one.
JOrdan was born with a beard, it's a not-so-well-kept secret.
And he was delivered to the home in which he was raised by eagles.
Gay
R u gay
Now I finally get the story behind the painting! Awesomeeee
He even had a carpet made...idk if it was commercially available, bit he definitely sees that painting as a significant work of his
It also looks a bit like one of carl jungs book covers.
My students in education love this lecture
Thank you for sharing it with your students
I've been listening to a great deal of your lectures from TVO whilst making my current flamenco guitar. I have them running on my laptop on my work table while I putter along, occasionally glancing at the screen, going back a ways to re-listen etc etc. Starting with the Maps Of Meaning lecturers and now this one on music and patterns. Brilliant all the way through. Bravo!
@caprice.t Do you mean my guitar? Very well indeed! :-)
Thanks so much for posting this very interesting lecture!
Music is density. We can sync to music because it is of the same goal, octave. In other words ascension. By going through all the dimensions.
It started with a dream for me.
Very interesting how much slower and calm this lecture is compared to his more recent ones, a lot less emotion too.....JP is the best.
"Music can name the unnameable and communicate the unknowable."
Leonard Bernstein. (Possibly the greatest music teacher that ever drew breath)
Robert CROSS his lectures blew my mind 😀
One of my favorite stories from Stephan Gould, the biologist, about his visit to Olduvai Gorge, has him asking his host, Louis Leaky, where all the bones were. And Leaky pointed to the ground at his feet, and picked up something like a finger bone from the ground. Leaky had trained himself to see the bones. But he could not see the clam shells that virtually made up the rubble. Gould could see nothing else, because the shells were his specialty. (Probably got some detail wrong here, but that's the gist.)
One word: heuristics.
Seeing this is the key to the general AI problem. I will do my best.
Jordan Pre-terson
thank you so much Dr Peterson, many prayers your way.
In my twenties, decades ago now, I felt threatened by music and would have none of it in my environment.
This was not because I hated music, though it seemed that way, but because my inner reactions to the music (any kind) felt too emotional.
This is probably still true but I learned to somehow mitigate the strong reactions, by dancing and singing, chanting and writing music.
I have returned to finding music deeply emotional, now that I am not able to enact such 'mitigations', but do play a lot of soothing, 'background' music every day.
A book titled 'Sounding the Inner Landscape' seemed to explain this fully and all too technically, and in detail.
I am just sharing this in case it can inform this subject, though I realise this video was out in 2015.
As an artist I absolutely love this
Wow, this is amazing! What a gem.
I love the cadence of this bit:
"and _this_ ... is a stereogram. You've probably seen these before bla bla bla"
why did presenters stop talking like this, this rules
Music kicks ass. I haven't the foggiest idea why, but I've loved it since I was a very little kid. It seems to me that it's inescapably human, although I'm aware that not everyone digs it.
The biggest mystery of music to me is why anyone ever bothered with it, especially in the very beginning when nobody had developed any instruments yet, let alone had any theory as to how to go about writing any tunes to play on them :)
Great part of being human, though!
Aha! I've been wondering about that picture. I had a hunch it was created by Dr Peterson, so that's nice to find out. It's a very cool image. Very musical, actually.
I know, he explained that. He uses an image of that sculpture for his channel avatar and it's seen in a lot of publicity shots, that's what I was talking about.
My grandma used to tell me that taste and love for music was all based on one's experience in the womb, as in, the sound of your mother's heartbeat. Probably an old wives tale but it always stuck with me.
Cult Comedy most house music is around 120-125bpm, same as the typical heart rate of a foetus in the womb
much of what Peterson talks about makes me think about things in Josh Waitzkin's "The Art of Learning". Especially the chess portion in this talk. I'd love to see those 2 talk a few things out.
the wHOLE lecture is the psychedelic experience and the arguments that emerge from the one undertaking it.
So true
100%
Seems to me this is an early version of the Peterson we have today. This is cool.
About 5mins in Dr. P talks about the meaning behind his signature painting. Around 41mins he goes into more detail about the components of the painting.
I came here specifically for that!
I adore the David Brent look on Peterson
Marvelous!
When a problem is difficult, I listen to music to solve it. Somehow it softens and spread the problem so it's easier to solve it.
I've heard of people that do that, the music helps 'activate' their brains and makes them better problem-solvers.
In my own case, I always found that if the music was anything I thought was worth listening to, I'd get too pulled into it to give a hoot about whatever else I was doing :)
Thank you
I think Peterson is so smart that he figured out how to look younger as he got older!! Lol fundamentally speaking.
Music gives different emotions and organism to internal or external stimuli...God bless to you Professor Jordan Peterson
The I Ching on music: "The enthusiasm of the heart expresses itself involuntary burst of song..... From immemorial times the inspiring effect of the invisible sound that moves all hearts and draws them together has mystified mankind," and loosely, the idea seems to be that music facilitates the meeting of the heavenly and earthly worlds.
wise words
4:46 The legendary Peterson profile picture was born!
Jesus Christ he has such an abstract and beautiful mind..
When he describes the patterns that manifest as stuff is exactly what I have always felt about music having a geometry..
You see he totally got his socks rocked by LSD when he starts talking about direct experience implying something real and he could feel it even if was beyond him at the time..
Awesome. As simple as that. Pre iPhone days.
Woe to mankind when man finds a way to fully grasp and comprehend the human existence.
Don't worry, it won't.
mark boggs lmao fax
Stereograms are so cool!!!
That's cool that you created that logo(s) yourself.
Omg ive missed this one!!
I got baked and I am listening to this! Maaaaaaaaaaaaahnn! This is top trance(dental) stuff!!!!
This is a rare one
I have witnessed a young Jordan Peterson. Holy shit
"music is an imperishable art"
Who would ever thought that logo he painted would be his profile picture on his CZcams and symbolizes Jordan himself
Damn, this was straight on pin point
And The one image in 00:34:04, sorry for The multiples requests, i am waching it now. Sorry for The bad english too, not my mother lenguage, but i am working on it.thanks :)
Eric Dollard, who in my opinion is possibly the most brilliant living mind in regards to electricity, elaborates a bit on Bach in some of his CZcams footage. I don't have a link handy, but a quick search will get you there and I recommend it if what Peterson has to say about Bach interests you.
So ultimately, my individual goals are simply the result of a highly complex, biological, pattern-reading machine which strives to understand the greater substrate from which I arose, i.e. the material universe? If I understand your observations correctly, then my role (or meaning) is largely to decipher the meta-patterns (or meanings) of the world in which I exist. And if the patterns of the universe are infinite (as they seem to be) then my purpose could very well be infinite too, right? That's rather daunting, simply because organizing an infinite set of variables is literally impossible - from a finite perspective, at least. So perhaps our goal should be to expand our perceptions? Would you agree with that? Would this line of reasoning possibly explain why the acquisition of knowledge and wisdom and empathy are so intrinsically valuable? If life is simply that which organizes, and we are the highest form of known life, then perhaps our purpose is just that: the organization and perpetuation of patterns/meanings. That would explain just about every historical movement we've ever seen, and probably even the ones we haven't. Do you suppose there could be a form of life that does not organize around patterns? Does our organizational ability dictate our value? Or would you say that the patterns are just as, if not more, valuable than their organization? Or can the two even be separated? Am I just asking if one meaning is more important than another? It seems to me that in organizing patterns we create even more patterns, which is fantastic, haha. It's as if the infinite begets the infinite. It's beautifully awe-inspiring. God is good :)
Anyways, wow, thanks for pushing my mind off the precipice!
+Jordan B Peterson I agree :) thanks for the reply.
pain is the strongest trophism and the main sculptor of the last 500 million years..it is the ego that condemns pain
At the risk of sounding brash, what's your point? :P
Sorry Aaron ,,I just set up my account and had difficulty with it,,(I sent the wrong message to the wrong person)
Ah, no problemo :) sounds like an interesting conversation haha.
It seems technically impossible to create a machine that can perceive. --- so beautiful. Like an old movie of an old snow globe.
The Christian tradition says the universe began with the words, "Let there be light!" and the ancient Egyptians said the universe began with a cry from the Bennu bird. Maybe sound is fundamental to existence.
No maybes there my friend; vibration (sound unconfined by our hearing apparatus) not only creates all patterns in existence but also puts them in motion. At the core, the Big Bang was more like a Big Band... and it's still playing ;-) Check out cymatics and 432 Hz tuning. And if you want to deepen your understanding of math and music watch Sonic Geometry video here on YT.
The sound is so broken in this video... Maybe if the left channel was cut out it would be better?
I interpreted this as taking the left headphone out and keeping the right one in. Seems to work too as far as I can tell
It's a bit out of phase, and has a lot of ground noise. Would you like if I clean it? 😐
@@0000song0000 Thanks, but I've listened through it already.
My fav
There are two types of people on the planet: those that can play Bach and those that can't ;-)
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
musological add a third type, those that can play bach while beatboxing ;) . Only one
PianoDreams obviously alL go crusify binary. U pattern genius! I DONT PANIC!
surely you refer to the SJW's.....
lol true
30:00 exactly what I need to hear starts round here goes on for another 5mins.
1, 2, 3, 5, 8,13
LOL -- Fibonacci
Ironically the sound quality hurts my mind!!! Aghh but I wanna listen!
Within music lies the soul of man - The I Ching
an ability to predict future occurrences requires Critical Thinking skills
Brilliant talk Dr. Peterson. What would also be worth mentioning is that any single tone, a frequency generates patterns which can easily be seen using cymatics. In other words, we don't need the complexity of Bach to fundamentally alter our perception using sound; in fact it's possible that the simpler, the more effective sound can be in "harmonizing" our consciousness into the state of grace, peace or love. A prime resonant frequency of a cancer cell can shatter that cell leaving healthy cells untouched (just like a prime resonant frequency of a glass when amplified with a human voice can shatter that glass). But that of course would be secondary to a frequency that can keep a healthy cell healthy. A very worthy topic of research is the 432 Hz tuning of music and the effects of those frequencies on our physiology and psychology. Sonic Geometry videos explain wonderfully the mathematics of music and why our current concert pitch might not be the best choice.
have to go to class in the morning...except that now I don't
I can’t tell if this was filmed in 2003 or 1983.
What if I showed you an iPhone and said that nobody designed it, it just appeared. Would you believe me?
Yet humans are SO much more complex. Even after thousands of years of technological advancement, our creations do not even come close to the complexity of any single human faculty; all of which, supposedly were not designed but came into existence through a mindless primordial soup. Humans are truly a testament to *Intelligent Design*.
I would love to know your thoughts. Wonderful lecture.
If you could show me phones reproducing on their own with slight variations in the offspring i would believe you telling me that nobody designed it
It depends on what you mean by intelligent design. Is this an intelligent separate entity you’re asserting exists? An entity that has a separate, thinking mind who decided to create us? If not that, what precisely do you mean by design? By intelligent?
Life is complicated.
Is it weird that I can get high on certain genre of music alone? It gives the same euphoria that can be derived from taking pain medication or being given anesthesia. And this applies to instrumentals, English lyrics, or lyrics of an unknown language. Anyone else have this experience?
Dancing is just a vertical expression of a horizontal desire.
Reminds me of Roger the alien (American Dad). He's on a date and the woman asks him if he likes music. He sarcastically replies, "No. I'm the only person in the world who doesn't like music."
42:48 - 42:58 arghh i have a feeling this part was edited and we missed out on a bit of information :(
Eric Balboa a BIT (hint hint) of INFORMATION
So in order to understand whether music is real we must change our perspective or clarify our definition of real. Therefore , how do we perceive? Our perception is the interaction between patterns of behavior-visual patterns internalized through the retina and then mapped on to transforming patterns of our neurons. Perception therefore (Be it perhaps consciousness) is the dynamic interplay between those patterns. Therefore since music is a variety of different patterns it representative of the most real of what could possibly be in its rawest form.. As always , roughly speaking.
So if perception is the interplay of patterns (transforming patterns of the outside mapping to transforming patterns on the inside) , whats the best patterns to internalize to reap the most "success" out of the heirarchy of patterns? That seems to be the archetype of the hero. I was thinking that a story is most representative of reality but perhaps a story is just a surface level phenomena and a symphony is story in a form that is not able to be articulated. A deeper story perhaps , thats why movies are often accompanied with music during dramatic or emotional moments in order to give deeper context to what is really going on. This all has me thinking that life is art. If the heros journey is representative of multifaceted phenomenas in life and music is representative of reality Then along with visuals wouldn't movies at the theaters be MOST representative of life? Would that be true when you're watching a high quality movie in particular? Is that how our brain compresses the journey in attainment towards a goal like that of a movie? Therefore whats the ultimate goal to achieve? Since most movies are just the escape from disaster rather than an actual attainment of anything particular. Actually i think movies are both so that it has higher highs and lower lows.
I just wonder whats the correct level of analysis when choosing in which manner to perceive the world? Ive had a recent truamatic experience and its like ive forgotten how to SEE? I dont know , i hope to find out soon.
Does that mean we create our life from the art.
there is no fucking way you can convince me this guy hasnt done mushrooms.. great work to prove through literature and science THE Ineffable
He actually has, but I think it was a recent thing. There's a video of him admitting it. He did a massive dose.
@@modernexistence4206 link now :)
His voice hadn't fully morphed to Kermit mode yet in 2006
solaveritas2 listening to his voice in this makes me appreciate his Kermit voice!
Since this video he’s incorporated a lot more variation in his speech patterns.
wow
This is fascinating... I follow Dr. Joseph Farrell (gizadeathstar.com), and he speaks extensively about the importance of music in understanding the world and culture. He is particularly concerned about the difference between Bach's musical world and the capacity of the human mind to understand complexity and what we have NOW. He likens classical music to a 12 track system and today's music as 2 track. You can easily figure out how HE feels about the differences... and the effect upon our society.
Achievement Unlocked:
GOATEE KERMIT
Jordan, have you interviewed Dr. Gabor Mate?
OMG THE HAIR
Goatee Peterson is my favorite Peterson
Hey everyone! Who can I get in contact with to get approval to sample this is a song?
I'm pretty sure he allows anyone to sample his work like Akira the Don, but since it's a TVO broadcast, you may try to contact them. Good luck, and post the song when you're finished :)
What's sith the audio at the end... And the baby
aww..he's nervous like musicians get nervous
Human brain sees the relevant patter right away, the computer looks at every pattern to find the right one. Is the computer really smarter?
"context informs comprehension"
@akirathedon you might find some good stuff in this.
I think music is primarily a distraction and it is so because it is mysterious. It becomes more of a mystery as we learn how to listen. It is almost a narcotic.
It can definitely be used as a distraction. But that doesn’t mean it “is” one, necessarily. It’s a tool. Tools can be used improperly. Even your own brain and reasoning can be used to destroy itself.
But I’m not sure that a tool is even the proper way to categorize it. Because it can also be thought of as a pattern that represents reality in a way that we aren’t sure how to articulate. And representations of reality aren’t always tools exactly. Not unless everything that exists is classified as a tool. Which I suppose it could be, but only if we use the word loosely.
Ahh, the 90's... I feel so old :(
I remember the 1970s but do not feel or look old. :-)
bruh this is 2006
@@mrwtfwhy the 90s vibe end in 2005-2006
The real question is: How did JP learn all of this without commenting along the way?
8:32 context in existence