Be careful with that mindset…..it has drove many down a bad path in self destruction. The biggest thing that I have learned is to never underestimate the ability of the majority to destroy your way of living.
Imma have to disagree with you, it has little to do with society as a whole. It's individual and very personal and that's why it can be so meaningful. Songwriting is something I have done profusely in my life. I only stopped because the police tortured me to stop me from doing it. Fuck the police. But art itself, creative expression, is something I have convinced myself really is the ultimate point of being human.
Art is extremely important to culture as it goes hand in hand. Think about it... the fact that there is the concept of skillful measurable value and certain pieces and even media can be regarded to an elevated state at all let alone the coveted state of cult follwing & masterpiece level, really implies that there's value and need and CULTURAL IMPACT & *memorability* / shift on your subconscious, and everything else to society as a whole. That's what it literally means as far as I'm concerned.
This perfectly describes the process i go through making music. When i write melodies i don't know exactly what it should sound like but i can tell when it's not the right combination of notes. I have to keep changing notes until i hit the right melody then it sounds like a piece of music to me. But sometimes I hear a fully structured song in my head at one time and then the problem solving takes the form of having to figure out how to play the song that i hear
I feel you when I think about my sound it is complete and whole but when i start to pull it out of my psyche parts of it fade and the outcome is completely different
just think of how the music industry is dominated by garbage and formulaic redundancy now days.(at least popular music). sure gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Yes! It's a weird process to tap into, it feels like practicing alchemy in a lab of frustration and satisfaction all at once. There's something beyond explanation that connects us on a biological level to harmonious sounds. I can never wrap my head around it entirely, but every time I hear a melody that gives me goosebumps I'm reminded that music influences me physiologically in just the same way a sudden and drastic shift in temperature does. I find these invisible forces absolutely baffling and beautiful.
Wonderfull, ❤ you have seen the light. Its all the human emotions mixed into one journey of discovery. And as each discovery reveals itself to you whether wanted, or, unwanted , you learn. It makes you feel so alive. And it really is an addiction, the more you look, the more you see, the more you create, the more you feel. And then it suddenly dawns on you that you are in love with it. But everyone has a different journey of discovery . Happy sailing my friend. May the wind be with you. ❤❤. 🙏🙏
This is one of the channels that gave me the courage to start my CZcams channel 9 months ago about self development. Now I have 1,721 subs and > 1k hours of watch time. I know it’s not comparable with others but I’m still proud I started because I’ve been learning so many lessons that I could haven’t learned without getting started in the 1st place.
For being an extremely creative artistic person I’ve often been called all the different names for unintelligent by so called friends and family as well as society for that matter. Simply, because my life’s passion has always been about my art instead of being a “practical”, money making individual/citizen.
Yes I've been surrounded by many people like this too, even our government has cut funding towards art thinking it's unnecessary. I don't think they realize its beauty and great contribution because of how its benefits can be more psychological than measurably physical... until it's all taken away from them.
Demons, beware of them... they do what they can to discourage the thing you've been gifted with. may God bless you and you find your talents and gifts fruitful.
Anyone who's an artist, or even just a lover but not creator of an art form, has to put up with that garbage. EVERYONE knows you're wasting your life if you don't flog yourself as hard as possible to consume, consume, consume! It's all about the JOB TITLE!! It's all about bragging about how desperately hard you work!! It's all about bending your kids' minds so they grow up to be desperately hard working! It's all about PECKING ORDER and who's house is bigger and who's SUV is newer and better! No. No it ain't :)
Based.... it's really all about who's in better shape and not mentally deficient. always been my favorite thing to point out to people claiming they work hard "but if you work so hard, then why are you an idiotic fat slob?" they always get triggered lmao@@devilsoffspring5519
Super old comment but “The most loving parents and relatives commit murder with smiles on their faces. They force us to destroy the person we really are: a subtle kind of murder.” -Jim Morrison
honestly if you look around youtube, there is a creative renaissance aided by technology going on. It is possible to watch people pursue their passions (ex playing video games on stream) and have others donate or contribute value, pretty incredible actually. Of course there is a lot of clickbait low quality content that only seeks views & money, but there is high quality content also
I like how you describe the role of and artist. I lately have been having a sort of existential crisis about being an artist, if there is some sort of purpose or trascendence to what I'm making . Then this thought came to my mind, that an artist's job is to make something out of nothing. And now after watching your video I feel reinvigorated.
Seems to me that artists play a better role as problem detectors, than as problem solvers. Just detecting it, articulating and examining it in some depth.
Yes. The trouble is, the Problem "Detectors" are slaving in the studio while the (see 5:18) multiple steep hierarchies fail to reward the Actual Genius. By "steep" hierarchies, I presume he's saying there is a clear and decisive need for each hierarchy to be 'open in fair competition to everyone'...because all competitors know what they are seeking. Power, generally. No wonder that competition for reward is so skewed...the artist simply wishes to draw upon creative/human capital while the other hierarchies are busy figuring out who's Boss and why nothing is on time or on budget. Hence the strength of block chain to "charge" and reward creative capacity first.
@Sal Trivedi idk, if the simple lasting solution is perfect, then why are you gonna change it? It's like changing Mozart's music, it's perfect the way it is, any other way would be a completely different experience.
Well it depends on which artists you have in mind. Some mirror reality, some destroy fake realities, some create partially true realities, and some fix reality.
I found his thoughts on Marxism at the end particularly enlightening. If all things are equal, you don't see qualitative differences. We're all capable of different things. Living in a world of forced equality would be a lie.
Alcaeus89 Marxism is dialectical materialism I think you mean socialism as Marx beliebed capitalism would collapse into. Of which socialism arguably treats art better than capitalism by removing the monetary commodity ascribed to art and rather focusing on the idea commodity. Aesthetics are a constant development that has occurred before capitalism and will continue onwards
This is all super true. I love the excitement of innovation. Seeing the absolute miracle of ordinary reality breaths life into art. When I start making “safe” art I get angry and bored, so I start experimenting again. I love his line, “artists leave and go somewhere cheap and interesting.” So very true.
Excellent. As an artist: wonderful formation also of what it means to be an artist. Helps me in being able to articulate my why of being and comfort for the difficulties.
Hi Elinore ...... I was commenting on this page, when I came across yours and all what you just said in your comment is great and amazing. Elinore I will like us to be friends, This is my Gmail raymondgogolf@gmail.com you can text me sorry for comment on Public stuff. please the gmail is only for Elinore kindly text me on this gmail if that is okay with you? I hope to hear from you soon.....God bless you.🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺
as a poor musician i wonder how society would react if artists, musicians and other creative types stopped making art? well they dont have to worry because we do it no matter the cost. Pay Us!
What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend.. Homeless. You got into music to get laid and now you've found out you have to mooch off woman like you did your mom. I know it sucks deal with it.
There's something beyond explanation that connects us on a biological level to harmonious sounds. I can never wrap my head around it entirely, but every time I hear a melody that gives me goosebumps I'm reminded that music influences me physiologically in just the same way a sudden and drastic shift in temperature does. I find these invisible forces absolutely baffling and beautiful.
True artistry seems to be a Jungian-type process of making the Unconscious conscious. Bringing the universal and eternal archetypes and ideas out into the light of day by any and all means necessary to wake the people up! To redeem their senses and lift their Souls. Art imbued with qualities of the Transcendent most certainly has a transformative power. It's mere presence alone is enough to elevate all that come within it's radiance.
I love how everyone else has it all figured out for us. Critics have us figured out, art academics and their endless theories and methodologies that are needlessly complex and esoteric. It is as simple as this- we create because we have to, and not to will drive us insane. We are not responsible for responding to culture or politics and we are not creating for your you to find personal meaning in our work. We create for us not all of you. Stop figuring us out we don’t need your help.
Artists are the map makers of there own souls, and no matter what belief you have, in one way or another, we all together are a unit, therefore artists are the map makers of EVERYTHING. Everyone is an observer of there own little, yet big, worlds. Artists are the people who show you there worlds as seen, thought, and felt in there souls.
We visual artists express what otherwise can not be understood/processed verbally. Visual art lets the viewer process what is experienced perceived within the viewer through an artist perspective at the level the viewer can accept.
Thank you for this. Your words resonate and I listen to them every time I get a wobble from fighting the greedy, vapid forces stealing from our resources, both inner and outer. I am grateful for you and share your truthful information. xo
This is a really good one. One aspect of JBP's lectures, that might hold some people back from liking him, is his stuff on IQ and the infallibility of it. But in this video, particularly in the end, he says that creative people can create new domains, or "hierarchies of competence," if the other domains get too full and people can't really participate. People who aren't high IQ or above aren't completely fallible. ...Then there's his stuff on the correlation between creativity and IQ, and it all seems less forgiving again. Life's suffering, man.
As always Jordan Peterson is correct. I wonder if he's ever read "The Psychology of the Artist" by Sheldon Cholst M.D.? Some of the things he states in the video echo what Cholst observed about the artist and their role within the bigger picture of society. Thanks for posting this video by the way. His intelligence is a beacon in an otherwise unnecessarily complicated world.
Have you read this book? I cannot find any reviews or explanations of it online. I cannot order it through my library. Would love toy hear your thoughts.
Art is the human disposition of sensible and intelligible matter for an aesthetic end. It raises people to a higher level of awareness than they would otherwise attain on their own. It is the business of revealing man in relation with his circumambient universe in the living moment. Art consists of reshaping life but it does not create life or cause life, rather it serves to illuminate the things that people feel.
Just listening to every bit of this, made me want to cry. I almost feel rejuvenated with inspiration to paint! I love you so much Jordan Peterson! God bless (and I dont identify as christian)
Please do start to paint again! As an artist myself, I’ve been on a creative hiatus for years now. It’s absolutely killing me physically and mentally. Stuck at horrible underpaid and underemployed jobs, while my soul basically dies. I wish you the best of success and universal blessings to begin again! It’s never too late!
@@downeybill I think the first artists ever, those who were drawing in caverns were actually doind what Mr Peterson is talking about. The were first adressing problems and threats and opportunities, feeling etc... that were not before. The should have play a major role in defining rules in man areas like spoken language i think
Well I can point out one connection that may not be clearly mentioned between the plight of the creative and the denial of heirarchy in neo-marxism: the creative can relate to the inadequacy of heirarchy in the way it fails to incorporate the unknown; and thereby the industriousness of the artist. And what's more, the unknown that could turn out to be that much more significant. That is to say, some feature of the known could the wrong approach entirely, and meanwhile people are receiving the credit for it. It's interesting how it's framed by Jordan as a challenge... It seems more like axiomatically impossible. Which means... There needs to be an alternative to heirarchy... In some form. Maybe a 2 system approach; a system with heirarchy and something else. Somehow the creative "process" itself needs to be captured and given credit in some sense. Idk.
2:54 to 3:12 I agree with 99% of this couple seconds moment and these words coming from someone of his archetype or style made me break the stereotype I had of him. He broke a imagined stereotype and made me feel better saying that. Even though I wish I could evaporate this simple human trait inside me which is the idea of stereotype.
Jordan Peterson is amazing how he can ad-lib on this topic so profoundly. One thing I would disagree with is I don't think art "moves us forward." That is the role of science (art is not about progress. Art is not teleological). Art is simply there to ELEVATE us. Spiritually.
His metaphor didn’t fail. The artist sets abstract sails and ventures into the vast seas of the unknown. They come back and the engineers expand the land the towards the direction of the art the people find most beautiful and intriguing
The music artist in Melbourne Australia have a constant battle of cycling councils and residents in new apartments around the city of noise complaints yet the music venues were there before the apartments were built which is nonsense when those residents knew what neighbourhood/, part of the city where they would be living
It's encouraging and refreshing to hear this..I've been fortunate enough to have made a living at it for 25 years. I certainly didn't get rich, but wealth is not in always the form of money.
Peterson once referenced an entrepreneur who has created something like 300 companies in a year. Does anyone know this man´s name? He was speaking on creativity or the difference between left or right oriented people and he mentioned how this individual is extremelly creative and productive. Any help would be appreciated.
I do remember him saying that the gentleman created the Founders school, you should be able to find something on that. Either that or I heard him wrong, and it’s a total dead end, sorry!
OK. So it's okay for artists to reflect the mainstream's narrative but not provide an alternative voice. HUH?? You have not read much classical literature, right? An artist's job is not to pamper people who can't cope with having their sheep-lives questioned, it's to challenge blind conformity. Every man or woman who wrote any of the classics of literature were challenging accepted social or political norms prevalent in the authors' time period.. If you want books in which the writer's provide comforting and conformist pablum you can find loads of them in most genres.
Yes! Good speech! Art is always the still unknown. In Modernism, Artists tried to capture the instant 0 [zero] and in Post-Modernism, the passage of eras.
This is one of the functions of artists. However, artists also afford others the change to contemplate beauty, and thereby the transcendent, and its relationship to goodness and truth.
Interesting - and I agree to a large extent. Yet by his definition, almost no one is an artist then, because virtually no artist has entered the unknown, or produced something wholly original. What is taken for art, even good art, usually remains at least partly familiar, affirming ideas and/or sentiments of the public. Even most great artists were not entirely original; many of them enriched the tradition of which they were a part, but it cannot be said of them that they offered pieces of the unknown. Beethoven, Picasso, and Whitman are artists who managed, after producing certain traditional works early on, to break almost entirely with tradition to introduce innovations. Mozart, by contrast, though no less of a genius (probably even a greater one), nonetheless represented the perfection and refinement of an already existing classical tradition. Granted, in a way, all good artists produce something that wasn't there before. Even in many familiar works the arrangement of the parts, the way the components play off of each other and/or are synthesized, make it plain that we have something before us that wasn't there before. Yet they remain familiar to some extent. It's extremely rare for an artist (even a fine one) to come up with something at once completely original AND immensely valuable.
I agree, some artists can create a new form of art from some previous forms, but not all. Let's say good artists can find many fascinating ways to express themself. But as explorers entering the unknown, they must be scientists
Well… land is land and ocean is ocean. Extending the shoreline isn’t going to produce something entirely alien and inaccessible - think of those strategy game maps where there are areas exposed and other areas darkened until explored on the map… I think that would be a better way to envision the idea.
Then understand us better. Develop tests that will recognize us. Don’t think of us as lazy slobs with no motivation or drive. (I’m referring to a test I recently took that completely misunderstood me) It didn’t take the creative person into consideration. It didn’t recognize the extremely right brained individuals. Our mind never stops. We constantly create. Yes often don’t finish. But it’s not because we are slobs. It’s because if we don’t, the creative inspiration is fleeting. It will leave us and move on.
When I was in art school we all loved PM because it challenged modernism & its minimalist/non figurative agenda. Especially as modernism attached itself to socialist drone ideals like "a house is a machine for living." Unfortunately PM attached itself to socialist ideology too & became about deconstructing meaning as we know it as a way to destroy bourgeois ideology.
This should be shown in schools at some point, So that creative people with relatively poor grades (like me) hear a word of the encouragement at least once in there live.
I could answer that for you, but then I would get numerous replies comprised of cut'n paste Bible verses posted by right wing conservatives and religious human bull-horns.
Heading for 80 y/o. I love to paint...i am a child in art but i love to try at it. It is worth while. Not a way to earn a living. An expression of joy in life.
Serious question although it may sound cringe, how do you go into the unknown? Cannabis, meditation, and psychedelics have helped me obtain heightened creative states. Any ideas?
You go into the unknown when a creative idea, a song title, a script, a painting, a book, a creative IDEA pecks at the window of your soul and WON'T LEAVE. It pesters, but in a subtle way. This is your muse. If the idea fades in short order and you stop thinking about it it is not meant to be pursued by the artist and was just a whim or random thought. If it won't stop pecking at your heart's window and it rather haunts you then go to your quiet place and get to work. Don't ignore your muse.
I think the unknown isn't some kind of a state. It just means that whatever the first thing in your mind comes up, you write it down, paint it down or whatever art you do. It means whatever you create doesn't need to make sense, you just do what you feel like. No right or wrong
The role of an artist does not excist. There is no definitive law whether by social existencence, or by social expectation. It is only disected and put into catergories by other human beings who are judging it. It has no rules, it has no boundaries, it is used as a vessell to express personnel creativity, , feelings, hope, wonder, hate, love, and more importantly freedom to enjoy. And that is the reason it has no role, it can't be defined. It is different in all of us. We are all a piece of art. It's like saying what's the role of a human being. We all have a different answer. It can't be rationolised and we wouldn't want it to be. Because it is unique. ❤
The worst part about being an artist. Is living on the edge. The edge of emotional vulnerability. The edge of drug use. Etc I can go on. It takes allot of courage what most people don't have to do what artists do. Some people like going slow or sitting still and prefer the slow lane. But then there are people like Freddie Mercury who couldn't sit still at all. Snorting rails and fucking men 24/7 and then starting his show riding on darth vader. The other negative would also be high energy and trouble sleeping. That can also be annoying.
And I think that the the artist gets that ability from an empowered imagination, which magick, is the thing that empowers it. Through the liberal and fine arts, can the artist articulate the unknown, but I think it's the magicians who are experimenting and writing about the unknown before artists.
Was this video made 6 years ago? I think this is why the majority of artists are spiritual people. If I put myself in his shoes, I feel so much empathy, compassion, and drive to share what I feel and I’m trying to translate it into something tangible to give to others. Art is language without barriers. This is why the artist erases and tries again, erases and tries again. It is not that they are more able to paint than any other person, rather, they are driven by their heart to tell others what they know. It’s the language of the soul and spirit. Together they pull the body to do what needs to be done in order to be understood.
Artists should not see themselves as special, or more "spiritual" than others. We aren't, and make asses of ourselves if we indulge in such nonsense. George Balanchine compared himself to a cook, offering up different dishes. This earthy approach led to the most admired choreography of the 20th century.
@@sanniepstein4835 I appreciate your opinion. I do not believe artists are more spiritual, I just noted that often they are spiritual. I think it takes an open mind to the things in which are not easily seen or understood to create art. I just can not come up with an artist on the top of my head that wasn’t spiritual. Even those who were atheist were so in spirit. They understood other spiritual views and had heavy hearted opinions in regards to their effects on society. It is not a requirement to be spiritual in order be an artist. I just think it spirituality breeds creativity. ❤️
Can anybody help me broaden my view of making art having impact on the world. I've been making music for couple of years, mainly producing music on a daw(music production software). I'm currently on a pause with music because I don't feel like my music has enough impact on the world, and if I ever make it to the level that a lot of people will hear my music, I don't feel like it changes a lot about the world. There's already so much music out there, and I feel like other than monetary value, my music wouldn't make the world a better place for people as much as I would like to. I can see that like self-help people, who give valuable advice to people, improving their lives has much more impact to people than someone hearing a piece of my music. Or even movies with a compelling story can be life changing in terms of mindset. I don't see that my music or lot of other peoples music making people's lives better in a significant way. I like to listen to music yeah, it makes me feel good, but there's so much music out there anyway, so why bother to try hard to get my music in the mix as well. Jordan said that art broadens the culture, but how much does musical art actually do. I mean yeah, I guess song writers can have songs with powerful words and melodies that could influence some people positively, but is it really that big of a culture broadening and does it really make that big of an impact in the world, if I'll continue to make music and become successful with it? (probably some of what I said doesn't make sense, english is my second language and also I haven't really fully figured out my view, so you're open to ask questions :) )
True artists have left Vancouver already. Come civilize downtown Chilliwack if Art is your true aim. Heck! You can even live in beautiful Yarrow :) But by all means, stay with the high rent if you're merely interested in the title of 'Artist'. Vancouver is full of such folks.
3:10 yes, it's fundamentally difficult to monetize creativity... but it's also being held back by our economic system. A big part of the problem is that the copyright system, which was ostensibly designed to reward creativity and foster innovation, has had precisely the opposite effect. It rewards ownership and stifles innovation because it eliminates competition and the sharing of ideas. Artists in today's economy are forced to sell the copyright to their work so that corporations can profit off of them. No royalty is paid, and no creative control, or even freedom, remains to the artist. It's predatory. Artists are like mothers who have to sell their children into slavery in order to buy food. That's the fundamental problem limiting artists from succeeding economically. And no one on either side of the political aisle is even willing to think about better alternatives. Imagine what life fould be like if we had an economic system that rewarded creativity and innovation instead of punishing it!
I don’t think of being an Artist as a role. Artists are creative. Well…the real ones are. When I think of artists having a role, or being given a role, I think of a communist classic book like…Natasha Shares a Tractor With the State. What a great read that was. Very educational!
Had to listen to this one, Jordan. You nailed it. That being said, would you like to take my 'worthless' collages and give them a hime. No charge. I don't want the money or fame. I just want them to have a good home before my demise. Hope you read this comment. I think you'll like my work, even though I haven't a clue what your taste in art is or if you even collect art
The Artist according to some are much like the Mophate or Sibyl in a way. A type of insanity. However in Socrates view this strain of insanity is of divine trajectory.
Its funny. One school of thought says we must change, another says we’re alright the way we are. As a young person i find the world a total maze of contradiction. Maybe, just to entertain an idea, maybe we’re okay in a way, but there are things we could change about ourselves whereas we have a side that will never ever change.
![Eminem - Houdini [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22tVWwmTie8/mqdefault.jpg)
As a lifelong artist, its great to hear of the trade respected as having a legitimate and valuable role in society
This gives me
Hope ❤
Be careful with that mindset…..it has drove many down a bad path in self destruction. The biggest thing that I have learned is to never underestimate the ability of the majority to destroy your way of living.
Imma have to disagree with you, it has little to do with society as a whole. It's individual and very personal and that's why it can be so meaningful.
Songwriting is something I have done profusely in my life. I only stopped because the police tortured me to stop me from doing it. Fuck the police. But art itself, creative expression, is something I have convinced myself really is the ultimate point of being human.
Art is extremely important to culture as it goes hand in hand. Think about it... the fact that there is the concept of skillful measurable value and certain pieces and even media can be regarded to an elevated state at all let alone the coveted state of cult follwing & masterpiece level, really implies that there's value and need and CULTURAL IMPACT & *memorability* / shift on your subconscious, and everything else to society as a whole. That's what it literally means as far as I'm concerned.
As a full time artist. This was super refreshing to hear.
This perfectly describes the process i go through making music. When i write melodies i don't know exactly what it should sound like but i can tell when it's not the right combination of notes. I have to keep changing notes until i hit the right melody then it sounds like a piece of music to me. But sometimes I hear a fully structured song in my head at one time and then the problem solving takes the form of having to figure out how to play the song that i hear
I feel you when I think about my sound it is complete and whole but when i start to pull it out of my psyche parts of it fade and the outcome is completely different
just think of how the music industry is dominated by garbage and formulaic redundancy now days.(at least popular music). sure gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
I understand that perfectly
Yes! It's a weird process to tap into, it feels like practicing alchemy in a lab of frustration and satisfaction all at once. There's something beyond explanation that connects us on a biological level to harmonious sounds. I can never wrap my head around it entirely, but every time I hear a melody that gives me goosebumps I'm reminded that music influences me physiologically in just the same way a sudden and drastic shift in temperature does. I find these invisible forces absolutely baffling and beautiful.
Do you like Keith Jarrett?
True art will move your very being to another plane. When something affects all of your senses at the same time...wow....that is true art.
Wonderfull, ❤ you have seen the light. Its all the human emotions mixed into one journey of discovery. And as each discovery reveals itself to you whether wanted, or, unwanted , you learn. It makes you feel so alive. And it really is an addiction, the more you look, the more you see, the more you create, the more you feel. And then it suddenly dawns on you that you are in love with it. But everyone has a different journey of discovery . Happy sailing my friend. May the wind be with you. ❤❤. 🙏🙏
This is one of the channels that gave me the courage to start my CZcams channel 9 months ago about self development. Now I have 1,721 subs and > 1k hours of watch time. I know it’s not comparable with others but I’m still proud I started because I’ve been learning so many lessons that I could haven’t learned without getting started in the 1st place.
For being an extremely creative artistic person I’ve often been called all the different names for unintelligent by so called friends and family as well as society for that matter. Simply, because my life’s passion has always been about my art instead of being a “practical”, money making individual/citizen.
Yes I've been surrounded by many people like this too, even our government has cut funding towards art thinking it's unnecessary. I don't think they realize its beauty and great contribution because of how its benefits can be more psychological than measurably physical... until it's all taken away from them.
Demons, beware of them... they do what they can to discourage the thing you've been gifted with. may God bless you and you find your talents and gifts fruitful.
Anyone who's an artist, or even just a lover but not creator of an art form, has to put up with that garbage.
EVERYONE knows you're wasting your life if you don't flog yourself as hard as possible to consume, consume, consume! It's all about the JOB TITLE!! It's all about bragging about how desperately hard you work!! It's all about bending your kids' minds so they grow up to be desperately hard working! It's all about PECKING ORDER and who's house is bigger and who's SUV is newer and better!
No.
No it ain't :)
Based.... it's really all about who's in better shape and not mentally deficient. always been my favorite thing to point out to people claiming they work hard "but if you work so hard, then why are you an idiotic fat slob?" they always get triggered lmao@@devilsoffspring5519
Super old comment but
“The most loving parents and relatives commit murder with smiles on their faces. They force us to destroy the person we really are: a subtle kind of murder.”
-Jim Morrison
Prof. Peterson's talking of the importance of articulation made me appreciate art and realise it's importance.
honestly if you look around youtube, there is a creative renaissance aided by technology going on. It is possible to watch people pursue their passions (ex playing video games on stream) and have others donate or contribute value, pretty incredible actually. Of course there is a lot of clickbait low quality content that only seeks views & money, but there is high quality content also
@@stevejeffrey11 It promotes laziness in my eyes. The need for other people's gratification (i.e views) sort of ruins the whole creative aspect.
@@ambientspaces1343 Yes. It demotivates true artists.
@@ambientspaces1343always work for youself and some will follow, others won't know you exist. That's the way life is
@@nigelmarshallkenyonabbott8684yes very trye
I like how you describe the role of and artist. I lately have been having a sort of existential crisis about being an artist, if there is some sort of purpose or trascendence to what I'm making . Then this thought came to my mind, that an artist's job is to make something out of nothing. And now after watching your video I feel reinvigorated.
I identify with your recent struggle. I had to go to the Master Creator who made me like this for greater understanding of my existence 😊
Amen @@juliet.nebblet-cox
There is definitely an inner smugness that feeds the creative process. I do collages, and they become part of my soul.
Seems to me that artists play a better role as problem detectors, than as problem solvers. Just detecting it, articulating and examining it in some depth.
Yes. The trouble is, the Problem "Detectors" are slaving in the studio while the (see 5:18) multiple steep hierarchies fail to reward the Actual Genius.
By "steep" hierarchies, I presume he's saying there is a clear and decisive need for each hierarchy to be 'open in fair competition to everyone'...because all competitors know what they are seeking. Power, generally.
No wonder that competition for reward is so skewed...the artist simply wishes to draw upon creative/human capital while the other hierarchies are busy figuring out who's Boss and why nothing is on time or on budget.
Hence the strength of block chain to "charge" and reward creative capacity first.
Yeah like "I don't have the answer, but this has to be acknowledged". Artists are almost like whistleblowers in a way.
that makes sense
@Sal Trivedi idk, if the simple lasting solution is perfect, then why are you gonna change it? It's like changing Mozart's music, it's perfect the way it is, any other way would be a completely different experience.
Well it depends on which artists you have in mind. Some mirror reality, some destroy fake realities, some create partially true realities, and some fix reality.
Art fills us with energy
Art inspires us to do things
Art brings us closer to other people
Sharing a pizza would equally artful then.
Sorry couldn't resist 😜
Art consoles those who are broken in or by life
@@danielhawkins3392 Pizza is definitely art bro.
It depends upon the art in question.
Not all art is good, or suited to a given audience.
Jordan is amazing, he has such unique talent to provide meaning from so many different perspectives.
I found his thoughts on Marxism at the end particularly enlightening. If all things are equal, you don't see qualitative differences. We're all capable of different things. Living in a world of forced equality would be a lie.
Alcaeus89 Marxism is dialectical materialism I think you mean socialism as Marx beliebed capitalism would collapse into. Of which socialism arguably treats art better than capitalism by removing the monetary commodity ascribed to art and rather focusing on the idea commodity. Aesthetics are a constant development that has occurred before capitalism and will continue onwards
This is all super true. I love the excitement of innovation. Seeing the absolute miracle of ordinary reality breaths life into art. When I start making “safe” art I get angry and bored, so I start experimenting again. I love his line, “artists leave and go somewhere cheap and interesting.” So very true.
Excellent. As an artist: wonderful formation also of what it means to be an artist. Helps me in being able to articulate my why of being and comfort for the difficulties.
Hi Elinore ...... I was commenting on this page, when I came across yours and all what you just said in your comment is great and amazing. Elinore I will like us to be friends, This is my Gmail raymondgogolf@gmail.com you can text me sorry for comment on Public stuff. please the gmail is only for Elinore kindly text me on this gmail if that is okay with you? I hope to hear from you soon.....God bless you.🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺
as a poor musician i wonder how society would react if artists, musicians and other creative types stopped making art? well they dont have to worry because we do it no matter the cost. Pay Us!
DRUMMERJAYable
Nah, don’t pay us. We want to Get. Paid.
What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend.. Homeless. You got into music to get laid and now you've found out you have to mooch off woman like you did your mom. I know it sucks deal with it.
Powerful and true. Thank you ❤
Voluntary exchange. No one should be forced to give you money.
@@sanniepstein4835 Is that what you read in my comment? Guess you didn't comprehend what I said.
Perfect analogy for an artist to truly be known by❤😊
There's something beyond explanation that connects us on a biological level to harmonious sounds. I can never wrap my head around it entirely, but every time I hear a melody that gives me goosebumps I'm reminded that music influences me physiologically in just the same way a sudden and drastic shift in temperature does. I find these invisible forces absolutely baffling and beautiful.
True artistry seems to be a Jungian-type process of making the Unconscious conscious. Bringing the universal and eternal archetypes and ideas out into the light of day by any and all means necessary to wake the people up! To redeem their senses and lift their Souls. Art imbued with qualities of the Transcendent most certainly has a transformative power. It's mere presence alone is enough to elevate all that come within it's radiance.
Oh wow- that's such a beautiful way to conceptualize it.
I love how everyone else has it all figured out for us. Critics have us figured out, art academics and their endless theories and methodologies that are needlessly complex and esoteric. It is as simple as this- we create because we have to, and not to will drive us insane. We are not responsible for responding to culture or politics and we are not creating for your you to find personal meaning in our work. We create for us not all of you. Stop figuring us out we don’t need your help.
Rar, rar, rar! I loved your complaint. I agreed!
Edgy
Artists are the map makers of there own souls, and no matter what belief you have, in one way or another, we all together are a unit, therefore artists are the map makers of EVERYTHING. Everyone is an observer of there own little, yet big, worlds. Artists are the people who show you there worlds as seen, thought, and felt in there souls.
We visual artists express what otherwise can not be understood/processed verbally.
Visual art lets the viewer process what is experienced perceived within the viewer through an artist perspective at the level the viewer can accept.
Thank you for this. Your words resonate and I listen to them every time I get a wobble from fighting the greedy, vapid forces stealing from our resources, both inner and outer. I am grateful for you and share your truthful information. xo
This is a really good one. One aspect of JBP's lectures, that might hold some people back from liking him, is his stuff on IQ and the infallibility of it. But in this video, particularly in the end, he says that creative people can create new domains, or "hierarchies of competence," if the other domains get too full and people can't really participate. People who aren't high IQ or above aren't completely fallible. ...Then there's his stuff on the correlation between creativity and IQ, and it all seems less forgiving again. Life's suffering, man.
What a top bloke! 👍 Brilliant. Thank you.
Thank You!
As always Jordan Peterson is correct. I wonder if he's ever read "The Psychology of the Artist" by Sheldon Cholst M.D.? Some of the things he states in the video echo what Cholst observed about the artist and their role within the bigger picture of society. Thanks for posting this video by the way. His intelligence is a beacon in an otherwise unnecessarily complicated world.
Have you read this book? I cannot find any reviews or explanations of it online. I cannot order it through my library. Would love toy hear your thoughts.
so well eloquently put as usual by Peterson...
Ever noticed artists and creative people aren't taken seriously until the culture 'needs' us?
That's true of everyone in every field, except the powerful who force our attention with threats.
I never been so sure that I am an artist after hearing this. Thank you for this clip.
Art is the human disposition of sensible and intelligible matter for an aesthetic end. It raises people to a higher level of awareness than they would otherwise attain on their own. It is the business of revealing man in relation with his circumambient universe in the living moment. Art consists of reshaping life but it does not create life or cause life, rather it serves to illuminate the things that people feel.
Just listening to every bit of this, made me want to cry. I almost feel rejuvenated with inspiration to paint! I love you so much Jordan Peterson! God bless (and I dont identify as christian)
Please do start to paint again! As an artist myself, I’ve been on a creative hiatus for years now. It’s absolutely killing me physically and mentally. Stuck at horrible underpaid and underemployed jobs, while my soul basically dies. I wish you the best of success and universal blessings to begin again! It’s never too late!
Another excellent talk by J. Peterson!!
He elaborates on these ideas a bit more in one of his biblical lectures. Brilliant answer!
Michael Bamford whichone!!
Jesus Guzman his 10th lecture on Abraham
Anyone got the link to the documentary mentioned
Throughout most history artists have been considered craftsmen who do what the client commissions.
no, not since the renaissance. that's when the idea became widespread that an artist has a role in giving birth to new insights into reality.
@@downeybill I think the first artists ever, those who were drawing in caverns were actually doind what Mr Peterson is talking about. The were first adressing problems and threats and opportunities, feeling etc... that were not before. The should have play a major role in defining rules in man areas like spoken language i think
Does anyone have the exact name or link of the documentary on Picasso he's referring to? Thanks in advance. :)
Here you go;-)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mystery_of_Picasso
Well I can point out one connection that may not be clearly mentioned between the plight of the creative and the denial of heirarchy in neo-marxism: the creative can relate to the inadequacy of heirarchy in the way it fails to incorporate the unknown; and thereby the industriousness of the artist. And what's more, the unknown that could turn out to be that much more significant. That is to say, some feature of the known could the wrong approach entirely, and meanwhile people are receiving the credit for it. It's interesting how it's framed by Jordan as a challenge... It seems more like axiomatically impossible. Which means... There needs to be an alternative to heirarchy... In some form. Maybe a 2 system approach; a system with heirarchy and something else. Somehow the creative "process" itself needs to be captured and given credit in some sense. Idk.
2:54 to 3:12 I agree with 99% of this couple seconds moment and these words coming from someone of his archetype or style made me break the stereotype I had of him. He broke a imagined stereotype and made me feel better saying that. Even though I wish I could evaporate this simple human trait inside me which is the idea of stereotype.
Seeing happy on a Jordan Peterson video really threw me off. I love it!
Peterson is the type of a friend everyone needs. Love the guy.
Oh? Is he the type of "friend" trans people need? They are part of "everyone" as well. Has he made their lives easier or harder? Just askin'...
Jordan Peterson is amazing how he can ad-lib on this topic so profoundly. One thing I would disagree with is I don't think art "moves us forward." That is the role of science (art is not about progress. Art is not teleological). Art is simply there to ELEVATE us. Spiritually.
His metaphor didn’t fail. The artist sets abstract sails and ventures into the vast seas of the unknown. They come back and the engineers expand the land the towards the direction of the art the people find most beautiful and intriguing
The music artist in Melbourne Australia have a constant battle of cycling councils and residents in new apartments around the city of noise complaints yet the music venues were there before the apartments were built which is nonsense when those residents knew what neighbourhood/, part of the city where they would be living
I liked the documentation "Why beauty matters" by Sir Roger Srcuton. Highly recommended...
It's encouraging and refreshing to hear this..I've been fortunate enough to have made a living at it for 25 years. I certainly didn't get rich, but wealth is not in always the form of money.
Why the loud music at the end, over the top of JP??
Jordan is fantastic.
Like a movement in art the artist creates the heiarchy
Peterson once referenced an entrepreneur who has created something like 300 companies in a year. Does anyone know this man´s name? He was speaking on creativity or the difference between left or right oriented people and he mentioned how this individual is extremelly creative and productive. Any help would be appreciated.
why have 16 people liked this but no one said the answer?
17
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I do remember him saying that the gentleman created the Founders school, you should be able to find something on that. Either that or I heard him wrong, and it’s a total dead end, sorry!
What is the song please at the end of the video? Thank you!!!
I actually dont remember what its called. Do you like it?
ManOfAllCreation yes I do
I believe that artists who align with a political ideology are no longer artists but propagandists.
Yes!
OK. So it's okay for artists to reflect the mainstream's narrative but not provide an alternative voice. HUH?? You have not read much classical literature, right? An artist's job is not to pamper people who can't cope with having their sheep-lives questioned, it's to challenge blind conformity. Every man or woman who wrote any of the classics of literature were challenging accepted social or political norms prevalent in the authors' time period.. If you want books in which the writer's provide comforting and conformist pablum you can find loads of them in most genres.
Yes! Good speech! Art is always the still unknown.
In Modernism, Artists tried to capture the instant 0 [zero]
and in Post-Modernism, the passage of eras.
This is one of the functions of artists. However, artists also afford others the change to contemplate beauty, and thereby the transcendent, and its relationship to goodness and truth.
💘
❤
ideas have the potential power to change you, and the world
This made me feel much better about my super creative and ingenious feces-slinging murals
Thank you Dr. Peterson! I so much wish that you would read about my multidisciplinary "JLPER Theory" (Music/Astronomy/Archaeology).
Interesting - and I agree to a large extent. Yet by his definition, almost no one is an artist then, because virtually no artist has entered the unknown, or produced something wholly original. What is taken for art, even good art, usually remains at least partly familiar, affirming ideas and/or sentiments of the public. Even most great artists were not entirely original; many of them enriched the tradition of which they were a part, but it cannot be said of them that they offered pieces of the unknown. Beethoven, Picasso, and Whitman are artists who managed, after producing certain traditional works early on, to break almost entirely with tradition to introduce innovations. Mozart, by contrast, though no less of a genius (probably even a greater one), nonetheless represented the perfection and refinement of an already existing classical tradition. Granted, in a way, all good artists produce something that wasn't there before. Even in many familiar works the arrangement of the parts, the way the components play off of each other and/or are synthesized, make it plain that we have something before us that wasn't there before. Yet they remain familiar to some extent. It's extremely rare for an artist (even a fine one) to come up with something at once completely original AND immensely valuable.
I agree, some artists can create a new form of art from some previous forms, but not all. Let's say good artists can find many fascinating ways to express themself.
But as explorers entering the unknown, they must be scientists
@@gingertrang8686 They uncover, or bring light to, the mysteries hidden within the human consciousness.
@@gingertrang8686I would suggest authors who sound the first alarms the likes of George Orwell
Well… land is land and ocean is ocean. Extending the shoreline isn’t going to produce something entirely alien and inaccessible - think of those strategy game maps where there are areas exposed and other areas darkened until explored on the map…
I think that would be a better way to envision the idea.
😊❤
Then understand us better. Develop tests that will recognize us. Don’t think of us as lazy slobs with no motivation or drive. (I’m referring to a test I recently took that completely misunderstood me) It didn’t take the creative person into consideration. It didn’t recognize the extremely right brained individuals. Our mind never stops. We constantly create. Yes often don’t finish. But it’s not because we are slobs. It’s because if we don’t, the creative inspiration is fleeting. It will leave us and move on.
When I was in art school we all loved PM because it challenged modernism & its minimalist/non figurative agenda. Especially as modernism attached itself to socialist drone ideals like "a house is a machine for living." Unfortunately PM attached itself to socialist ideology too & became about deconstructing meaning as we know it as a way to destroy bourgeois ideology.
This should be shown in schools at some point, So that creative people with relatively poor grades (like me) hear a word of the encouragement at least once in there live.
who the hell could dislike his videos? poor souls....
I could answer that for you, but then I would get numerous replies comprised of cut'n paste Bible verses posted by right wing conservatives and religious human bull-horns.
@@FriendofDorothy Lol, thanks for the honesty
Heading for 80 y/o. I love to paint...i am a child in art but i love to try at it. It is worth while. Not a way to earn a living. An expression of joy in life.
AN ARTIST DOESENT NEED YOU TO TELL THEM WHAT they're ROLE IS
Its funny how artists are rarely famous until after we're dead and we never get the monetary value of our work as a buyer who resells it.
Serious question although it may sound cringe, how do you go into the unknown? Cannabis, meditation, and psychedelics have helped me obtain heightened creative states. Any ideas?
depression
You go into the unknown when a creative idea, a song title, a script, a painting, a book, a creative IDEA pecks at the window of your soul and WON'T LEAVE. It pesters, but in a subtle way. This is your muse. If the idea fades in short order and you stop thinking about it it is not meant to be pursued by the artist and was just a whim or random thought. If it won't stop pecking at your heart's window and it rather haunts you then go to your quiet place and get to work. Don't ignore your muse.
I think the unknown isn't some kind of a state. It just means that whatever the first thing in your mind comes up, you write it down, paint it down or whatever art you do. It means whatever you create doesn't need to make sense, you just do what you feel like. No right or wrong
The role of an artist does not excist. There is no definitive law whether by social existencence, or by social expectation. It is only disected and put into catergories by other human beings who are judging it. It has no rules, it has no boundaries, it is used as a vessell to express personnel creativity, , feelings, hope, wonder, hate, love, and more importantly freedom to enjoy. And that is the reason it has no role, it can't be defined. It is different in all of us. We are all a piece of art. It's like saying what's the role of a human being. We all have a different answer. It can't be rationolised and we wouldn't want it to be. Because it is unique. ❤
I think you just changed my life...
The worst part about being an artist. Is living on the edge. The edge of emotional vulnerability. The edge of drug use. Etc I can go on. It takes allot of courage what most people don't have to do what artists do. Some people like going slow or sitting still and prefer the slow lane. But then there are people like Freddie Mercury who couldn't sit still at all. Snorting rails and fucking men 24/7 and then starting his show riding on darth vader. The other negative would also be high energy and trouble sleeping. That can also be annoying.
And I think that the the artist gets that ability from an empowered imagination, which magick, is the thing that empowers it. Through the liberal and fine arts, can the artist articulate the unknown, but I think it's the magicians who are experimenting and writing about the unknown before artists.
Great Artists make Discoveries...
Artists evolve culture
We create...and then move on to create more.
Was this video made 6 years ago?
I think this is why the majority of artists are spiritual people. If I put myself in his shoes, I feel so much empathy, compassion, and drive to share what I feel and I’m trying to translate it into something tangible to give to others. Art is language without barriers. This is why the artist erases and tries again, erases and tries again. It is not that they are more able to paint than any other person, rather, they are driven by their heart to tell others what they know. It’s the language of the soul and spirit. Together they pull the body to do what needs to be done in order to be understood.
Artists should not see themselves as special, or more "spiritual" than others. We aren't, and make asses of ourselves if we indulge in such nonsense.
George Balanchine compared himself to a cook, offering up different dishes. This earthy approach led to the most admired choreography of the 20th century.
@@sanniepstein4835 I appreciate your opinion. I do not believe artists are more spiritual, I just noted that often they are spiritual. I think it takes an open mind to the things in which are not easily seen or understood to create art. I just can not come up with an artist on the top of my head that wasn’t spiritual. Even those who were atheist were so in spirit. They understood other spiritual views and had heavy hearted opinions in regards to their effects on society. It is not a requirement to be spiritual in order be an artist. I just think it spirituality breeds creativity. ❤️
This guy is so incredible smart...
incredibly*
he’s certainly smart, but I feel he’s much more so wise.
Can anybody help me broaden my view of making art having impact on the world. I've been making music for couple of years, mainly producing music on a daw(music production software). I'm currently on a pause with music because I don't feel like my music has enough impact on the world, and if I ever make it to the level that a lot of people will hear my music, I don't feel like it changes a lot about the world. There's already so much music out there, and I feel like other than monetary value, my music wouldn't make the world a better place for people as much as I would like to. I can see that like self-help people, who give valuable advice to people, improving their lives has much more impact to people than someone hearing a piece of my music. Or even movies with a compelling story can be life changing in terms of mindset. I don't see that my music or lot of other peoples music making people's lives better in a significant way. I like to listen to music yeah, it makes me feel good, but there's so much music out there anyway, so why bother to try hard to get my music in the mix as well. Jordan said that art broadens the culture, but how much does musical art actually do. I mean yeah, I guess song writers can have songs with powerful words and melodies that could influence some people positively, but is it really that big of a culture broadening and does it really make that big of an impact in the world, if I'll continue to make music and become successful with it? (probably some of what I said doesn't make sense, english is my second language and also I haven't really fully figured out my view, so you're open to ask questions :) )
But this is fantastic... Artists as those who first articulate and represent problems in society.
What is the role of artists in a sick culture?
4:00 Peterson describing himself
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
I know MY value is incalculable. But I'd love to go somewhere where I was at least appreciated 😢💔
“What is that melody”
Vancouver is running out of cheap neighborhoods for the artists to civilize.
True artists have left Vancouver already. Come civilize downtown Chilliwack if Art is your true aim. Heck! You can even live in beautiful Yarrow :) But by all means, stay with the high rent if you're merely interested in the title of 'Artist'. Vancouver is full of such folks.
that's a good thing, if there are no neighborhoods left to civilize, then all neighborhoods are civilized.
His Ego ... Huge
True at least he's confident in his words unlike most people today
No artists ? No creation!
LOL the random fairy tail outro
But if the playing field is not fair to begin with?
Writers especially, I think. Whether its fiction or lyrical.
We articulate the unknown.
Where do these ideas come from?
3:10 yes, it's fundamentally difficult to monetize creativity... but it's also being held back by our economic system. A big part of the problem is that the copyright system, which was ostensibly designed to reward creativity and foster innovation, has had precisely the opposite effect. It rewards ownership and stifles innovation because it eliminates competition and the sharing of ideas.
Artists in today's economy are forced to sell the copyright to their work so that corporations can profit off of them. No royalty is paid, and no creative control, or even freedom, remains to the artist. It's predatory. Artists are like mothers who have to sell their children into slavery in order to buy food.
That's the fundamental problem limiting artists from succeeding economically. And no one on either side of the political aisle is even willing to think about better alternatives.
Imagine what life fould be like if we had an economic system that rewarded creativity and innovation instead of punishing it!
I don’t think of being an Artist as a role.
Artists are creative. Well…the real ones are.
When I think of artists having a role, or being given a role, I think of a communist classic book like…Natasha Shares a Tractor With the State. What a great read that was. Very educational!
Artists are not trouble makers,
They are problem posers 😂
❤🎉😮😊
hmmm... its funny its really one of the simpler topics yet this one gives me pause to think
Had to listen to this one, Jordan. You nailed it. That being said, would you like to take my 'worthless' collages and give them a hime. No charge. I don't want the money or fame. I just want them to have a good home before my demise. Hope you read this comment. I think you'll like my work, even though I haven't a clue what your taste in art is or if you even collect art
The Artist according to some are much like the Mophate or Sibyl in a way. A type of insanity. However in Socrates view this strain of insanity is of divine trajectory.
Its funny. One school of thought says we must change, another says we’re alright the way we are. As a young person i find the world a total maze of contradiction. Maybe, just to entertain an idea, maybe we’re okay in a way, but there are things we could change about ourselves whereas we have a side that will never ever change.