Why the Mercedes F1 Car is SO Fast On the Straights | Qatar GP | The F1 Breakdown
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 11. 2021
- Lewis Hamilton has now strolled to victory in the last two races in Brazil and Qatar, but why is Lewis and the Mercedes apparently so much faster than Verstappen and the rest of the field? Why did Mercedes shine brightest under the lights at Losail?
Red Bull had believed that Mercedes were somehow getting around the wing flex regulations. These are the rules that are supposed to stop the wings of the cars flexing at high speed, as the fast-moving air hits them.
The more the wings flex, the less frontal area they have in the air, the flatter they are and so the less drag they create - meaning higher speeds along the straights, but the same downforce in the corners - an engineer’s dream.
The FIA check the wing flex by adding weights to the wings, and measuring how much they move. However, as always in F1, there are ways around the test - to have the wing perform differently on the track than in scrutineering.
➤ Subscribe for more incredible motorsport: goo.gl/AbD2f9
➤Follow us on:
➤ Instagram- @official_driver61 - bit.ly/D61Insta
➤TikTok - @official_driver61 - bit.ly/D61TikTok
➤ iPad Drawing sponsored by Concepts, you can get an exclusive free trial here! - concepts.app/driver61
📺 F1 Driver’s Technique Explained
➤ Senna’s bizarre technique: bit.ly/3lORK59
➤ How Schumacher’s style won 7 championships: bit.ly/3527cVz
➤ Alonso’s strange steering: bit.ly/2Z7a93v
➤ How Verstappen will be F1 champion: bit.ly/3jK6L6n
➤ How Verstappen is so fast in the wet: bit.ly/32WMVhr
📺 F1 Engineering
➤ How F1 brakes work: bit.ly/3h0Whh0
➤ How an F1 clutch works: bit.ly/3i0oDJM
➤ What’s inside an F1 gearbox: bit.ly/2DzMqRW
➤ How F1 teams change four tyres in two seconds: bit.ly/2QVpkIl
🏎️ Track & Racing Driver!
➤ Get a free report on your track driving: bit.ly/2LmYNBA
➤ Get faster on track with our FREE 25-part tutorial series:bit.ly/2PypIMK
➤ Our real-world training programmes: bit.ly/2ktjtgV
🏁 Sim Racers!
➤ My sim wheel: bit.ly/354BBlY
➤ My sim pedals: bit.ly/3eJckQo
➤ Our sim racing course: bit.ly/34WuV7p
➤ Get a free report on your track driving: bit.ly/2LmYNBA
➤ Driver61 Sim Racing Channel: bit.ly/2BMdk4B
#F1 #QatarGP #TheF1Breakdown - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Do you think Red Bull can catch up the pace difference before the end of the season? It's going to be close!
*Don't forget to subscribe! We are so close to 700K!*
Honestly probably not but I think max can hold onto 2nd and get fastest laps and pull the W
@@SPDRMNKY443 If Lewis wins both races, he wins the championship, regardless of what Max does IIRC.
Don't think Red Bull can criticise Mercedes's rear wing, their DRS element has been flapping like a bird the last few qualifying sessions.
@@SPDRMNKY443 No way in '-H-E-L-L-' it all over for Max now! GoodNight Max the end L0L!
LH mentioned the wing or lack of a while ago, it's know dialled in good and proper, RB are scratching there heads thinking wtf.
The biggest suprise of Qatar was how far Max and Lewis got out in front. They both blew away everybody else. Like the commenter said at one point it was like the rest of the field was in Formula 2 cars compared to those two.
That's exactly why I'm excited about next years car changes
I am suprised too like at times I wonder what if lewis & verstappen and bottas & perez swithed cars before the race .will they still dominate ??
but you won't hear fanboys of a certain team talk about that, all you'll hear is unfounded allegations of cheating by another team whilst deflecting attention from their own.
@@3515B1 Hamilton and Max are special. And that's the reason why their teams develop their respective cars with them in mind. If Bottas came to Merc in 2017 and climbed ontop of Hamilton, we wouldn't have any conspiracy theories. That's what Hamilton did in 2007. He came into F1 and matched defending WDC 2X Alonso. That forced the team to give him a fair chance.
Max's teammates since Danny, have not lived up to the task.
So yes I do think that Max would still outpace Perez and Hamilton would still outpace Bottas. Bottas is quicker on a single lap than Sergio but Sergio has good race pace.
@@Champtiste1 your hopes will be shattered. Lower your expectations and you'll thank me. Hamilton and Max will still be punching crazy lap times and going wheel to wheel. Unfortunately I think George will spoil the RedBull show by staying with them. I think Perez will be left behind.
In aerospace, the design methodology you’re describing is called “aeroelastic tailoring” and has been in aircraft design for about 30-40 years. This is where a design team tailors the carbon ply direction & stiffness so as to achieve the proper deflection of the wing structure due to specific aerodynamic loads (lift, drag & torsion). For testing, replicating these specific aero loads with weights is probably very difficult - good luck FIA.
Exactly. We worked on helicopters with self feathering rotors. These rotors would get stiffer and relax the twist as the rpm (rotational velocity) increased. The advantages were several from having high lift at low speeds and low drag at high speeds. Also they produced less rotor noise (the whop whop you hear when a helicopter flies over head). The mathematics (pretty basic 5th order and 6th order polynomials) behind this is not new and the FIA would have to employ some aeronautical engineers and laboratories to test for this.
Beyond the clever use of the ply of carbon fibre you can also achieve this sort of dynamic change using elastomers.
I think Mercedes have found in high speed corners the car already produces enough down force so they need less rear wing.
The path of the air on the front of the wing is shorter compared to the back of the wing creating down force. In theory with aeroelastic tailoring if the car is at a certain speed it will bend the top of the lower part of the rear wing widening the gap between the lower and the upper(aka drs flap) part of the rear wing which creates higher air speeds behind the upper part of the rear wing lessening it's effectiveness or drag. So in theory it's not only effective on the straights but also in high speed corners plus it flattens the curve of the lower part of the wing when opening DRS which lowers drag.
I don't know how flexible this part of the wing is allowed to be according to the regulations. It is an interesting design nonetheless and the 2021 flexiwing saga continues. If Mercedes wins Toto needs a cigar and the line ¨ I love it when a plan comes together! ¨.
So then the alternative would be to just get rid of the rule and allow wing flex at your leisure as long as the wing supports are fulfilling stiffness rule and the wing don't go awol.
Another consideration is that the whole aerodynamics changes when you are in a corner or driving straight so if you could generate the proper turbulence of the air when going straight and make the wing generate less drag and then let that turbulence go outside the wing in corners that could also be a way they have solved it, at least I would have looked into that area. It could be a very small tweak with great impact.
@@ehsnils bruh! I believe that's how a normal f1 fan should be.
Articulate, Informative with loads of technical insights...
Not just bashing the opposition about their legality..
I've seen so much toxic articulate comments when lewis won at Qatar..
Yes the car was bit superior then RB, but Instead of encouraging RB to close the gap, all haters were busy bashing Lewis's Car. Crystappen fruadstappen and many more...
They could just stick the cars in the wind tunnel for scrutineering
Let's just take a minute to recognise the geniuses behind the scenes that come up with these crazy designs. They are the ones ultimatley responsible for what we see the drivers achieve week in week out and should get more attention and credit!
" Thanks to all the guys back at the factory" Hamilton.
These are more like spaceships than racecars
F1 has pretty much always been an exercise in engineering first, and a contest to see who is the best driver second.
They're insane
Lewis and Max are really in a league of their own. Whoever wins this season its been the best season in years. Just remember next year its all change again! Great time to be an F1 fan.
But how and most important why FIA put Max in such possition? What about all the changes before the season just to slow down Mercedes? Thats why RB and Max dont deserve to win the titles this season. And thats why Lewis and Max are not in same league.
@@TheLordVOODOO so merc and Lewis don't deserve the 7 titles cause they won because of the time changes too. I agree 😂
@@TheLordVOODOO The pre season changes were made on Pirelli's request. Changes to the floor and other parts were proposed, no team complained, not even Mercedes. In fact, at the time the overall consensus among engineers and pundits was that the high rake cars (Red Bull and most teams) would likely suffer more than the low rake cars (Mercedes and Clone-Mercedes).
@@TheLordVOODOO its pretty clear who's ass you are kissing here. And it was about time that they made the field a bit closer. NOONE, I REPEAT NOONE wants to watch a race where the 2 cars of 1 brand just drive off, take a 30 second lead and then just cruise around the track. Those where the most boring years in F1 EVER. The fact that mercedes even said that in the first years of the new turbo era they detuned the engine so much because at full power they could lap the whole field atleast once every race says enough. It also shows how easy hamilton got his titles. With a car that much faster i bet even mazespin could win a race. And else mercedes could just increase the power of the engine of mazespin til the point he would win the race....
@@TheLordVOODOO
Lewis made more personal mistakes than Max, especially in the first half of the season.
Also, Max lost more points by bad luck from the outside than Lewis (do I need to point them out?) Max therefor to me already is the real champion of this season, no matter the end result.
And he deserves it. Also because he's the first non-mercedes driver since almost a decade who actually is able to break the too long Mercedes-dominance and having the ability to beat Lewis. He won his first GP in a RB in Barcelona as a rookie, and now he deserves his first WDC.
I love the fact that you don't pick sides, and are unbiased. Keep up the good work, and putting things in layman's terms!
Thanks, Robert, appreciated that.
@Robert Mclaren Scott is anything but unbiased. It's been well documented that redbull were in fact running flexy wings earlier this season, until a new TD (technical directive) changed the testing procedures. czcams.com/video/gt3NqQF_9yA/video.html
@@Bahamuttiamat 🤣🤦🏼♂️
Oh yes he does! He Just spent the first half of this video siding with Redbulls accusations which by the way haven't been proven which is just Redbulls whining again. And this guy is obviously biased on the side of Redbull
I love how you basically accuse Mercedes of cheating without absolutely any evidence of such and use Redbulls unsubstantiated accusations as proof to further perpetrate Redbulls agenda. Do you work for them?
It means they can run a higher downforce for medium corners while not sacrificing straight line speed.
reducing downforce at high speed reduces pressure on the tyres, reducing tyre wear aswell !!
Maybe but if its within regulations, its all good. Go Hamilton.
@@guiseppe36749 What? Sliding causes wear…DF stops the sliding
@@zeroch1ll150 If it's flexing, it is not within regulation, it just means they found a way to cheat in FIA test, just like red bull did at the start of the year, rules are clear, any aerodynamic surface must be rigid.
@@guiseppe36749 Higher downforce=less tyre wear.
Great Explanation but you forgot the tyres and temps. The Characteristics change drastically when they go a steps softer and the Red Bull loves the c3 and c4 tyre(espcailly this) and even more so the softer tyres in Abu Dhabi. Also Red Bull has a a very small temp window of 25-31 degrees air temp and equivilant track temp (maybe 32-45 might be bit higher), anything more than this and the Tyres start to wear out quicker compared to the Mercs (like austin) anything lower than this and it's understeer (Like turkey and Hungary). Qatar was a bit lower but also it was the Hardest tyre which Red Bull hates(Which is why Zandvoort is a All Max win). Jeddah is very similar to France and Mercs Engine advantge yes, but Red Bull can trim it's rear downforce off like it did in France as well due to there being no low medium(3rd gear) speed corners ike in brazil. They had to live with it in Brazil and a set-up error in Turkey. It's going to be Engine vs Tyres for the next two races. Exciting.
So Red Bull designed a "peaky" car and Merc designed an "All-Around" car? interesting view and i do not disagree with it. i have not seen someone break it down like this. definitely an exciting few weeks to come.
I think the new engine and Hamilton still winning it really decided it already. I bet Hamilton could take another new ICE and still come 1st in either of the remainin races lol.
@@rkan2 Yeah we will get a clear picture after 22 races in Jeddah
I'm wondering if it makes sense for Verstapin to take a new engine next race? Making the assumption that Max should have no problem working his way to 2nd. Then have the fresher engine for the final race.
@@rkan2 Brazil is a much easier track to overtake at than Abu Dhabi and probably Jeddah. Unlikely hed be able to get past a similar paced car like max’s red bull
The content is always on point
Fuck off timebucks, I see this account in so many comment sections and the videos are just kinda scammey and weird. Idk why Scott liked this, he must have seen the check mark and not looked in further.
I just wanna praise the genius minds that design and create this cars. 🔥🔥🔥
@Hilton Tadi John Owen is the designer of every mercedes car since returning in 2010.
It's incredible isn't it!
Engineers and designers are incredible.
Give them a set of rules they'll do their very best to almost break every single one, morally illegal isn't a thing for them.
@@Stryker_-qd4nq These are technical regulations, not a moral code. For example, "wings can't flex" is not a rule nor could it be. Everything flexes. The rule defines how much it can flex under what circumstances, and the designers obey that rule.
@@jaimemetcher388 oh I agree.
Good engineers ask for the rules
Great engineers ask how they test to check of they're breaking the rules
Merc have brought aero updates through the season and have optimised their set up to make better use of the changes to the rear of the floor and the effect of the diffuser. They're able to set up the suspension to drop more and stall the rear diffuser at high load (high speed), then rise again under lower loads (weight shifting to the front, braking and low speed corners). This has the added benefit of allowing them to reduce load on the front tyres so they don't suffer the same deg as RB and others. They're finally getting the most of the low rake foundation this season.
And this is the difference between Mercedes and Aston Martin.
They both got hit hard by the reg changes, but while Aston Martin drown, Mercedes go on to win the championship with their genius.
I don't get why this mechanism doesn't amount to moveable aero device ...that's what it is for, that's what it does, ..so what if they have to move the entire car to do it...seriously what the heck?!
@@scottnineteen because its just tuning of the settings on standard suspension components. They're simply able to adjust the heave spring/damper and associated components to allow a bit of droop under equal, high load at the rear. The other teams do this too but don't see the benefit as much as Merc because they're starting off higher due to their high rake design, so can't stall the diffuser. It's taken Merc a while to perfect and they were only able to do so after mid season aero updates. Aston should be able to do this too, in theory, but they won't have the resources required to perfect the aero required to support the suspension tuning.
@@seven4221 Aston won't have the resources required to make the aero work along with the suspension tuning. They've also stated they're highly focused on next year's car so will be using CFD and tunnel time there rather than significant updates for this season.
@@dodge3048 Thank you for that ...however , and forgive me but unless the rules specify that the movement (or otherwise) of the aero device is to be considered only as the wing's position in relation to the chassis. And so not in relation to the air flow ...or the ground or any external frame of reference. Then the wing must be said to be moved. If they're all doing it ..ok, although merc has more to lose in ruling them all away, or perhaps the complexities would make such a banning course a bit of a lottery.
Yes, the momentum has shifted. I honestly felt this way when Hamilton won both Portugal and Spain, back to back. But then RBR brought it back at Monza, where all of a sudden, Mercedes struggled. Not just on that race, but on other tracks as well.
I am confident RBR will have a response to Mercedes' pace. They have two weeks to figure it out, which is a good amount of time to come up with solutions to their issues with their wing and with their straightline speed.
Exactly, it’s not all doom and gloom, and I’m sure redbull have the tools to find the pace somewhere. It’s a street circuit, they will no doubt gather pace from some kind of setup change.
I wish I could agree with you.
But apparently Lewis had an old engine at Qatar.
They're gonna drop that brazil engine in there again and he's gonna cruise to victory. Media (british) and Lewis fans will scream everywhere how this was a legendary drive. Then he'll win the championship once again.
Sad , but if I'd have to bet my money, that'd be the scenario.
@@---kn2go I hope you are right . Want Lewis to win the championship.
Well, as it stands, Max would have to win at least one of the remaining races and get second in the other to win the WDC. Possible, but who knows after Merc‘s dominance last two races..
Redbull cannot compete with the “new” Mercedes now.
The unknown track aspect in final races just adds so much to this already incredible championship , like Qatar then Jeddah and Yas Marina(cause of new layout)
It ads danger for sure!
All with a lot of straights and Hamilton didn't even use the new Brazil engine in Qatar lol
@@Madmoody21 yeah , jeddah will be really hard to learn cause of no run-off area...
you push limits to far and end up in th wall
People are too focused on top speed alone. Top speed can be influenced by downforce settings and/or charging strategies. Thus a drag/power advantage can be transformed into a corner advantage and/or acceleration advantage as well rather than only top speed. Also a good way to prevent/delay people paying as much attention to that drag/power advantage.
Fr everyone acting the circuits are all made of straights. Hell sometimes the Williams or haas are fastest in the straights
Top speed helped in overtakes and Lewis over 2 stints overtook the entire field. That isn't driver as much as it is top speed on straights with DRS assist.
This. My god I’ve been trying to say this and no one understands at all. You said it best
@@gregharrison5479 yeah but in combination with higher downforce allows you to follow out of corners quicker behind cars making overtakes on straights easier
Okay so a few things:
- Drag is not the same thing as downforce. Drag does not give any advantage in a corner, downforce does.
- A flexing wing can reduce the straight line drag a car experiences during acceleration, thus improving performance under both acceleration and in the cars top speed, even without a power advantage.
- I don't think anyone is distracted by the wing. Every f1 fan heard the fresh engine narrative in Brazil, and there was no lack of discussion about Mercedes engine going into Qatar.
- The reason that the wing flex matters in relation to the top speed of the Merc is that under top speed, the wing flexes allowing the car to go faster on the straights, but when the air pressure isn't there to flex the wing, the car experiences more downforce, making cornering easier than if they just ran the decreased wing angle permanently in the setup. It's an unfair advantage and there's a reason the FIA test for it.
I'm in youtube since long time now. And I can hardly remember ever subscribing to any channel. I'm a guy that watch videos and that's it.
Now finding this channel was pure gold, don't ever stop with this excellent and unique quality content!
+1 sub
So, Mercedes got the FIA enforcing other teams (including Red Bull) to change their wings during the season (goes nicely with the cost cap), and finds a way around that new rule themselves. Some might call that smart, I do agree that it is smart from Mercedes, but it kind of kills the fun in this close championships for me tbh.
By the way, how much does a new combustion engine for an F1 car cost? or does that not fall under the cost cap?
Engine deals do not count towards the cap. They have their own cap of $15MM. Since the manufacturers makes their own engine, coupled w/fluctuations in material costs and availability, Mercedes, Honda, Ferrari and Alpine can probably redefine the cost of a power unit based on the customer and/or the current conditions.
The Mercedes wing doesn’t flex. Their suspension collapses at a set load and lowers the wing.
I watch the camera that looks out of the back of the car. The RBR wing still flexes, but the Mercedes wing doesn’t.
They do not change their wings!!!! Mercedes send protest to FIA to see is it wing legal or not! After FIA said that this flex rear wing is legal, they copied it...
Ne engine do not fail under the cost cap, and you have penalty if you change it...5 place if you change ICE, or if you change all PU you will be last at grid...
@@LilSebastian_ Mercedes have rear flex wing as all of the teams. Also they have suspension that collapses as any of teams but they mastered that collapse suspension and because of that they are so fast ond starits with max wing angles at almost all tracks. First collapse suspension was made buy Ferrari 2-3 years ago. Mercedes have it from this year because they lost most of their advantage when new rules about flor was made for this year only and because they have lovest rake on car they lost it most of the downforce. RB lost lot of less and because of that they are good this year, so good with their high rake concept of car...now Mercedes unleashed super engine power and they are far, far away of RB right now with this. Brasilian engine was specialy made for 110% of load for just 1500km...
@@jtwilliams721 Welcome to Swiss German attitude. Great for performance and efficiency. Lacking in humility and social grace a bit. There is a reason Germany has no equivalent to the British MBE and it has to do with social stigma from their past lack of grace.
Although I worked for Honda for 27 years and cheer for Max, the Merc rear wing is "legal" simply because it passes the test. Mercedes has found a way to circumvent the spirit of the rule (thou must not bendith the wing) without failing the test. Brilliant!
Actually, it is the timing that is clever. When Red bull had the Flexi wing, their wing passed the test too then Merc protested and FIA updated the TD to make sure it doesn't bend. This is pretty similar, only now Red Bull has run out of races to see the benefits of protesting.
Wasnt that also the case for Red Bull earlier this year, prompting an update in how the wings are tested, suddenly turning their rear wing illegal?
@@fabianvoets6090 It is but too many people just assumes that Red Bull cheats and forgets the fact that it's just loopholes in the rules. They only see the facts when Merc does the same.
@@fabianvoets6090 yes and rightfully but RB got almost 2 months to make a new wing so Mercedes should get the same time and then the season is over anyway
But the rear wings of red Bull continue to move up and down on the downshift.. So Well? Who is illegal?
It's faster because it goes "zoooooooooooooom" instead of just "zoooooom".
“Neeeeeeeeeooooow.”
@@CydonianKnights11 no no, that was back in the V10 days
@@nobody2437 You misunderstand the concept of zoooms in that case
@@nobody2437 you had to ruin the fun, huh? 👀
@@zippo5294 some people, man... some people
Why doesn’t anyone talk about RB having to change their rear wing when the new tests were initially brought on?
RB was dominant over Merc and now Merc is more dominant after RB had to change their wing.
I agree
RB has never been dominant all season, max maybe in a few races.
You’re forgetting the fact that RB/Max won three races in a row after FIAs new load test, including a Grand Slam in Austria. So it obviously didn’t slow RB down very much..
RB at the time said "if it passes the tests it's legal."
Looks like Mercedes took that on board, and are now beating RB at their own game.
Red bulls have changed rear wings 3 times recently, and in the last weekend’s practice there were clips clearly showing the rear wing flapping like birds wings, so they are having problems so they point fingers at others as a distraction
Hey, love you videos. If you could start doing race recaps and race previews (such as explaining the different battles going on from the top all the way down the field, between teams and individuals, who you thinks going to win and why etc) that would be awesome!
I appreciate the unbiased feedback which is refreshing to see for a change. This was my first time I watched any video on your channel but that was enough to get me to subscribe. I look forward to more.
Great video, as always. Keep up the good work!
The most exciting season in years... just in time for the new regulations to come in, after which Mercedes will again be 2 seconds ahead of everyone else :-P
Why do people like conspiracy theories... Like the reason why redbull is faster this season is literally because fia made aero rule changes and banned DAS to make it so. It's just to make the racing closer.
@@opeoluwakuku5056 So effectively what you are saying is that with Mercedes it is the car that is winning, not the driver. That kind of matches what every Max-fan says.
@@opeoluwakuku5056 the aero changes are true, FiA did change parts of the floor to slow down Mercedes.
@@sls12III The floor changes were because they were going to be using the same tyres they did last year, and those tyres weren't rated for the levels of downforce pirelli was expecting if the teams had continued to develop the cars at the time.
@@bazzleuk Yes, but it is clear for everyone to see that Lewis wins on the straight whereas Max wins in the corners, that is where you can spot the difference between car and driver.
You have a great way of explaining things in layman's terms and in an impartial manner! Love these videos!
LOL “impartial” - this kid is a redbull/verstappen fan boy. Every video he makes is in defence of max. This channel is a verstappen cheer squad
How do you know that the RB is front-limited? I thought that we knew from years past that the RB had an unstable rear.
rb is front limited you can see during any race week merc front tyre perform at 70 % while RB rear tyre perform 80-70 %.
@@vivekchaudhari4813 What are those AWS bs stats dude XD
Horner has admitted there was no substantial gain in straight line speed in Qatar gp
cuz they didnt use the brazil engine
@@jokeboke2617 not doubting you buddy, but may I know where is this coming from? I have been seeing this a bit here and there, saying Merc swapped out the Brazil engine for the last 2 races, and they ran the Turkey engine in Qatar. But I haven't personally read any of it, so am just wondering where are these news coming from.
@@johnyan3062 In the video you are posting comments ;)
@@johnyan3062 Toto confirmed in his Qatar post race interview with Sky Sports F1 that they are bringing the “spicy” engine from Brazil back out for the last 2 races.
@@johnyan3062 i think i heard toto say it on sky f1 post race interviews with the 3 English bloke
The relative drop in speed advantage with the rest of the field could be because the rest of the teams have also improved, not necessarily because Red Bull’s performance has decreased. And naturally, Red Bull haven’t taken an engine upgrade since Sochi(?), so that will have an effect. I think Mercedes’s decision to upgrade the ICE and minimise penalty, as well as their timing for taking the upgrades, may prove to be the strategically better decision. Helmut Marko indicated that the relative performance gain from the new ICE for Red Bull is lower than that of Mercedes - but then he isn’t exactly an unbiased source :-)
It's unlikely that the entire rest of the field would improve significantly as a whole. Red Bull simply got slower.
There's an onboard video of Brazil showing the main plane of Mercedes' rear wing bending at speed near the end plates in Brazil. Which is exactly where the score marks were and where they failed the test in parc ferme. The wing obviously didn't fully return to shape.
great video. haven't been able to find anything on the updated rear wing from Mercedes until now:)
whoever may win, VER or HAM
i've thoroughly enjoyed the competition between the two this season
I’m so glad there is actually numerical statistics showing the speed advantage of the Merc and it’s not just me subconsciously wanting someone else to win a championship for a change.
I mean redbull where faster on the straights in Qatar
You e plain this so well and so succinctly Scott. Great job.
Thank you for being a race car teacher. All of your videos are awesome!
I love how f1 engineers keep finding ways to make their cars faster despite FIA "rules". Idc about the drivers, i care about FASTER CARS
it’s like that in all motorsports. the people building the cars are smarter than the people making the rules about how the cars should be built
@@fishrocker95 I agree 99 percent but 1 percent part is not so true. Other classes including f2,3 oval races are more balanced in terms of performance. And yes F1 has always been engineering competition than driver competition. Put Max in hass he can't even keep up with RBR, same goes with hamilton....
Edit:there were spelling mistakes 😂
AGREED, drivers rarely make any difference.
I do understand where the rules cone from, tho. Its to make it a good/fun game. The purpose of most games is to do your best/best others *despite* the rules. Thats why -most- people dont start stabbing their opponents in poker, marathon, or monopoly. Thats why athletes are not allowed to use performance enhancing drugs. I very personnaly find bending the rules, or trying so hard to cheat and hide behind wording, i find it to be not illegal maybe, but very very unethical. Trying to cheat your way out of the rules you expressely agreed upon by technicism in the wording feels terrible. On this case the rule is very clear "dont use bending wings" with the specific purpose if not altering the drag, and going "oh, we accidentaly over engineered a part to purposefully bend and reduce drag. But its not the part they check so its not illegal" feels as dirty as "its only illegal if you get caught"
@@THESLlCK that’s not true either
Last time i looked at the trap speeds from Brazil the merc wasn't particularly fast. Only RB was particularly slow
Main strait overtakes were disgusting by lewis so I find that somewhat hard to beleive.
but they are rapid on the corners, this indicates a high downforce setup but with this flap means they don't sacrifice anything on the straights
@@TeaRexOnTwoWheels disgusting?
Look again
@T B How am I a weirdo? Leave your toxicity to yourself.
Congrats with the 700k subs!
You & Palmer provide the best F1 technical content on YT. Thanks
It is short sighted to ONLY compare straightline speed. if the straightline speed is more or less the same as Redbull it would mean that Mercedes could use a lot more wing using these flexible wings without loosing on the straights, while having a huge benefit in the long/fast corners.
Now its investigated by everyone on the straights, but what if the benefit isn't on the straights, but having more grip in the longer corners, and not loosing speed on the straights while having this benefit?
I've read somewhere that Hamiltons new mercedes engine is produced and opzimized ( for 2.800 km lifespan - last 3 races) where standard engines have 7.000 km lifespan and Bottas didn't get it and this is the difference where you can see that Hamilton gained 0.4 seconde in qualiffying on Bottas. Before swap difference was marginal 0.1-0.3 seconds now it's 0.5-0.7 seconds.
I think it's totally unfair of Mercedes to take the new engine in brazil and not use it in Quatar. It shows that they didn't need it. So they just pay for the new engine and take the 5 place grid panalty which is way to little in contrast to the performance boost
True this is what they've done and its a very clever move
@@juser_28 it's really disinigenuous.
@@juser_28 nothing stopping Red Bull doing the same, so not unfair just clever. I think Red Bull may have made an error by not taking a new engine themselves.
They ran the old engine in Qatar
As a brand new F1 fan. I really appreciate what you do. I feel like I’ll be so educated by time this season starts thanks to your videos
Another very interesting and well made video 🙌🏻
The Mercedes improvement in performance appeared around Turkey, around the same time as everyone noticed the non-linear movement in the rear suspension. I think the stalling of the rear diffuser has been a huge help in straight line speed. You could see Mercedes struggle around the COTA at Austin because it was a bumpy track, so the suspension had to be stiffened. Mexico has always been a RB track. Brazil was the big turning point. I'm not sure that significant gains can come from the rear wing flex alone, while the DRS is closed but I don't have a degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics like Adrian Newey. Fatigue cracking/fretting would appear more on the opposite side of the lower wing as it is under more elastic loading, unless there is a vacuum effect pulling the lower wing upwards. So my conclusion is that the markings on the underside of the Mercedes rear wing are pixie dust and what we are witnessing is magic.
Stalling the diffuser I'm sure is beneficial but the floor doesn't produce nearly the drag of the rear wing. Even just an incremental reduction in drag is a huge gain. That's why a bunch of teams were running the flexible wings that Mercedes had banned.
I think Red Bull might had lost speed also because Max is using an relatively old engine, while Mercedes are using a relatively new one. If I didn't recall wrongly, Max changed his engine in Sochi, which is already 5 races old in Qatar. Considering averagely teams change engines every 7 races, the wear, and power drop on Max's engine should be quite noticeable by now
which is why it surprised me that haven't given him a new engine already...... I hate long live F1 engines, should 1 engine per race weekend, but when Max's engine with 6 races on it, goes up against Lewis's engine with 1 (from Brazil), in the last race, it'll be game over
@@steveb6718 Red Bull engines don't degrade as fast as Mercs
Horner said that their engine drop off isn’t as severe as Mercedes and that the reason they haven’t put a new engine too is because the gain would be only marginal.
Horner said the reduction in power over the life of their engines is minimal.
@@steveb6718 ^
Thank you for making these videos.
Great channel! New subscriber here! Congrats on the 700k subs!
I think it's good to think about this as that all teams at all times are trying to cheat. They always try to find areas within the legal rules where they can expand the definition and try to get away with actually shady stuff until someone calls them out on it or they get caught. I don't like it when someone says ow this team is cheating or they are only so fast because their car is illegal. All the teams try to do the same thing just some of them do it better than others.
It's not cheating if it's legal lol
That's the beauty of F1. It's not cheating. It's just undefined. The grey areas is were championships are won or lost.
@@Anonymous-411 well horner and marko have different dictionaries than us
The problem is Mercedes protested red bulls flexible rear wing earlier in the year... then to do this at the end is hypocritical is it not?
That’s what’s racing is all about. If you’re not cheating you’re not trying. Ashame the FIA gets involved all the time
Definitely my favorite F1 channel, the content is always on point. Both informative and entertaining. Keep up the great work, lots of love from Germany
Another high quality analysis, thank you so much!
Thanks for the insights, clears a thing or two.
the championship is nervewrecking and can't afford to miss a race. It might come down to the last race.
Max is scarily calm, after the sudden pace of Merc, in all interviews and podium celebrations.. Think he still got it this year
That's what I think he has reflected throughout the season. For me that's already a champion mindset. Max was the same last year and was most of the time the runner up to Lewis. This year he has enjoyed a car that was for almost all races able to challenge for victory. This shows how car performance can make the difference which for Lewis was never the question for past 7 years .
I think Merc have developed towards dominating the last few races. Red Bull may have just misjudged the importance of it and hope to have it wrapped up by now.
@@rishinaik4326 Nope he won't win.
Ron He hasn't sorry.
I mean if we buy into what he says, it's like he doesn't care about winning be just more about keep pushing.
Very smart move from mercedes to give Ham a new engine for Just 3 races.
Smartest guys in the room.
Agreed. I bet Red Bull wishes that they’d have given Verstappen a new engine in Qatar, considering how Verstappen ran away with P2 and overtaking was easier than they thought it would be.
@@andrew4517 I suggest you dont bet because this was explained multiple times during last races... Honda PU doesnt have as much power degradation as Mercedes', Horner himself said that difference between new one and fully worn out is maximum of 1 tenth.. So taking a new one doesnt actually make sense for RBR
But Hamilton didn't even use the Brazil engine in Qatar lol... I bet he could take new ICE for both of the remaining races and still come 1st :D
@@rkan2 I wonder why tho.. If you have new engine for last four races, and even then you dont use It on the second, there seems to be something fishy😂
@@rekreator9481 they wanted to save the engine for the last 2 races.
good analysis, as always!
Great stuff, thanks for the content!
Setting up for a qualifying lap time can compromise straight line speed it’s ok if you can use a set up to run and hide in a race as lewis did this last race but it can compromise racing in the pack. redbull looked strong against the field this week as did lewis in Brazil set up and a new engine made lewis look invincible, but the reality is max is a setup tweek off finding an extra half a second and he’s also leading the points at the moment… may it go down to the last corner of the last race
The data is out, FIA used 2 weights of 35kg weights kept at 2 points on the wing and it passed so.........
@@FirstnameLastname-we6dh the Brazil wing passed the old test, the Qatar wing passed the new test, so even if they were flexing it doesn't matter because both the wings passed their respective tests.
@@himadribasu red bulls passed until they changed the test
I haven't seen any proof of it actually flexing? Direct me to where I can see it if you can please.
@@rhyswilliams4893 neither have I actually.
@@ralf4012 and every team was given 2 months to actually comply with the new test parameters, also you know why it was different? Because merc actually showed the FIA how to beat that test. Here RB haven't actually given any evidence but still asked the FIA to do a test based on their liking and the merc wing still passed the test.
Well, looks like you did it! 700K subscribers
Congratulations!
To answer your question in the title I think its now confirmed that they have managed to find a way to stall the rear diffuser by using load on to the rear suspension, i.e. the increased load compresses the rear suspension and thus stalls the rear diffuser and reduces drag. They can do that due to the low rake philosophy of the car. RB's high rake car would not provide for the same benefit and thus they focus their attention on the rear wing which is a bit of a red herring. Just to be clear that's not a new concept but Mercedes are managing it better than the other teams and its completely within the regs. It's simply sour grapes from RB as they realise the limitations of their package.
Great insight!!
I have a question thought, why are some drivers quicker at front-limited tracks( like hamilton i think) and others at rear-limited tracks ( like perez)?
Perhaps you could make a video about how the Mercedes rear suspension system could make the car “squat” on the straights, cutting airflow to the underfloor and stalling the diffuser which helps to cut downforce and drag. I find that quite an innovative solution, simple yet clever.
It feels reminiscent of the multi-element deforming front wings of the early 2010s Red Bulls
more engineery brains will probably have a better gauge of it, but...
In slightly more basic terms it *gives me the impression that* the wing element fixing-point placement is creating/allowing a cantilever effect at speed
*Potentially* if they blasted enough points of compressed air against the wing element at the right frequency the scrutineers might be able to see it wobble
Your vids are great mate. Objective as always. You should take over Michael Masi job!
Extremely grateful to witness what might be the best F1 season ever during this lifetime 🙏
The Red Bull cars tend to understeer? I thought they tend to be 'pointy' and oversteer, and that's why the RB16 had that unstable rear-end taht easily gives up and spin?
I think last season they definitely were. The higher rake means better diffuser performance at the cost of drag under the car. This usually means higher downforce on the rears, but previously red bull have had some problems with the rears regardless. This season they have the rears nailed, which is why Perez isn't losing the rears every corner like the previous red bull drivers.
i thought so aswell but verstappen conplaint aboit understering in brazil and turkey
high rake cars are naturally understeery. and that is why it can destabilise the rear if you push the balance towards front too much. max style suits the car beautifully. he tends to lose alot of speed on entry cuz of understeer but he gets massive exit speeds because back end kicks down and give him the grip. thats why redbulls can follow better. and also the reason they are better at low speed corners. mercs need to push alot of air to keep that backend planted cuz of low rake. thats why they are not as quick coming out of corners especially low speed ones. and the reason bottas is usually a sitting duck for max.
@@TheFarrukhzain Ok, so I'm guessing you're saying that because the car is understeering, the driver needs to 'overcorrect' it (i.e. turn in more) and that's why the rear can easily give up?
@@zanewong2005 yes. Thats what i have noticed. Alex albon and gasly both kept complaining about no confidence in rear. ricciardo and max are similar in how late the brake and how deep they go with braking. one reason i think dani has struggled in mclaren. he has to relearn his braking
Solid state morphing the bottom wing using electrical current. Even a few mm's bent towards the upper wing, could give a good advantage on straights.
I Love your Videos
Can you make a Video from your Favorit F1 Car of all time ? That would be super cool
I think in the regulations it's 2mm allowed flex so maybe merc is doing 1.8
Or the flex 0.5 on the middle and 3++ on the edges averaging the whole wing (how it is tested) to 2mm
you can have the have the same top speed but more downforce that's why the time difference with the flex wing
Excellent synopsis .Appreciated .
Even if Mercedes are having a wing that’s in the grey zone know that’s just fair considering RB having a wing that was also in a grey zone for almost half of the season
I would hardly call 5 races half a season, when there’s 22 races
@@TeamSukiyo ok 6 but still they had some time so Mercedes should also get Saône races left to change their wing like rb did
@@fk4410 so it's only fair that Perez takes out the mercs in one of these races then?
@@sakethedpuganti5697 no it’s not lol that’s something completely different
@@sakethedpuganti5697 btw Hamilton also lost 7 or 8 points in that race due to the incident so Verstappen who would have likley gotten 3rd with that pace that Mercedes had that weekend only lost 5 or 6 points in comparison to Hamilton as he got 2 instead of 15
By "spice things up a bit" Toto means running the new engine at full power. Max would have had the championship in the bag if it wasn't for the puncture, Silverstone and Hungary incidents. That's the only reason Hamilton even has a shot at the title this year.
Hmmm, how about the first few races with the illegal wing which gave Max a clear advantage? And that got no punishment whatsoever. Also, driving Lewis off the track without punishment? Unheard of and plenty of precedent.
Seems to me like Max has had more help than Lewis this season.
🤣🤣 if only whining could power a car. Redbull would be the fastest.
It's F1 and crash happens as well no doubt for Max that always have crash in past years cause of his aggressive driving style
@@michaelgoode9555 The Wing was not illegal at this point of time. It passed the old test but as they werent satisfied with the procedure, they introduced a new test procedure which the RB rear wing didnt pass. So RB was not able to run the wing anymore, but that does not mean that the wing was illegal when they used it. Otherwise there would have been panalized
@@jeffsteyn7174 Haha thumbs up for that!
Red Bull F1 fans seems to be the most biased or whatever fans in all sports.
Missed the oscilating Red Bull wing on Friday in your analysis. Forcing them to run a less optimal configuration on Saturday and Sunday.
Kees van de Grinten even commented that the fight is over if they can't get the issue solved before Jedda.
I think the secret behind the Mercedes rear flex wing comes from the fixations of the lower element to end plates.
Check the two big circles on the end plates. I think the fixations include flex and are not rigid so the lower element can rotate at high speed with the load
@Driver61 So if I'm understanding, Merc has a 4-7kph edge on the straights (which is 1-2% of the top speed). But what part of that is from just running a lower downforce aero package?
True
I mean to be fair, All of the teams are trying to find ways to sidestep and work around the regulations to gain advantages. Red Bull had their own flexiwing earlier this year for example. It's legal until you get caught
RB are not claiming Merc are running a lower downforce package. They are claiming their rear wing main plane is flexing, thus reducing drag at high speed. A flexing wing is independent of how much downforce the car is running. You think they can't tell from photographs what the wing angles are?
@@chengchu7501 they got caught and FIA banned it, but now it would be embarrassing if Mercedes actually had a flex wing too
I hope Scott weighs in on this. My hunch is the Merc is quite a bit less planted i.e. Lewis is outdriving Max in the corners, which is 2/3 of the track. But who knows! They're both stellar drivers making few errors. Put either one out front in clean air and you can kiss it goodbye.
Good video, being unbiased and fair, will like to see more of this
Nice investigation and explanation of the differences.
The straight line speed of the Mercedes is downright demoralizing as a RB fan lol
The maximum speed comparsion is pointless, because Mercedes could run higher downforce with the same max speed thanks to the flexing wing. So comparing maximum speed only doesn't make any sense and only seems like picking a Mercedes side and making them look advantage-less :/
You have neglected the suspension effect that causes diffuser stall, in brasil the slow section followed by the fast section meant the suspension could be dialled in to take a lot of downforce off. In Qatar there were too many high speed corners that needed the downforce so the amount of track they could use the effect was significantly less.
Great analysis! What was the study you mentioned about red bull and merc top speed analysis? I couldn't find that.
It's a simple thing to make wings flex when in the race...just use material that is stiff at "normal" temperatures (up to 35°C and noone will notice when testing) and flexible at higher temperatures (50°C+). The only thing left to do is heat up the material when you're racing...should not be a problem for a F1 team like Mercedes.
F1, give this man a job!
@@Driver61 i'm sry, forgot to leave a like on the video. mea culpa!
Well Merc had their second best engine in the car for Qatar so that's probably the speed advantage diff.
Yeah, definitely. Hamilton could probably take a new ICE for both remaining races and still come 1st in both, so great was the difference in Sao Paulo!
@@rkan2 That's the problem actually and FIA has to do something about it. Mercedes and Red Bull can and has the luxury to change engines every single race of the year and they will still win the drivers and constructors. Most likely Merc with the superior engine.
Ur on trending mate congrats 💪💪
love the progress bar for the ads - easy to skip!
great channel
One thing for sure who ever wins it deserves it. 👏
Driver wise for sure thumbs up for this comment.
love this channel....you got it man...
Listening to your point abiut the different behaviour of both cars in various corners this might bode well for RB in Abu Dhabi then.
Allthough i do feel that the track changes hugely benefit the merc.
I thought the gains were from their ability to collapse the rear suspension under high load and thus stall the diffuser?
Every race Horner comes up with a new story regarding Mercedes' pace... I wonder what will they protest after the race in Abu Dhabi
@@Shifftee my question is serious, not sarcastic. i wasn’t criticizing horner - that’s just how f1 (and competition) works. I’m also not implying that the suspension is illegal - if anything it’s genius. It may be the only thing that evens out the low vs. high rake systems this year. Multiple people have covered this -> czcams.com/video/iv92F6ElPS8/video.html
i think mercedes is somehow cheating with their rear suspension, allowing the rear ride height to decrease on high speed straights to stall the aero.
Yep, looks like some "reverse DAS" type of shit
On some of the channels I heard that the Mercedes are able to stall the diffuser, in order to do that they found a very clever leverage and geometry for the rear suspension, therefore after certain amount of load the back of the car actually drop, stalling the diffuser eliminating part of the drag.
What about it?
genius
Is the speed difference more sensitive with DRS activated? The opening of the DRS changes massively the air flow on the main plane, therefore this one can operates and bend differently.
Imagine an f1 car without all these regulations, the limit will only be how much the driver can push.
That's exactly what the RedBull X2010 and X2011 concepts were in the GranTurismo games. Very cool concept cars, too.
But didnt Alonzo's Alpine clock the highest trap speeds in Qatar? Meanwhile that Mercedes rear wing living rent free in Red-Bulls head :D
Great analysis .. looking forward to the next F1 race !
Crazy how the championship will be defined somewhat because of that incident in england. Really exciting to see
Not only was the diffuser stall genius, it looked incredibly cool when braking hard. Like a cobra raising to strike
Look how close Mercedes and redbull have been up to brasil. That stat on performance between the to is so close. Yet despite the small points difference max has dominated.
I hope this season isn't determined by a vastly superior Mercedes yet again. We won't them close enough that whoever wins its between the 2 best drivers of this generation and not the best car
This season may well have been determined by Mercedes drivers inflicting DNFs on Red Bull drivers.
Kharma....lol
@@player9117 how is that karma, I didn't see Redbull destroying other cars before Hungary and Silverstone
Also I think pirelly had a pivotal role in this Championship as well Baku was determined by the tires and ofc Hamilton missing the first corner :-p
@@vegetanotavailible4972 The aerodynamic changes in effect this year were also down to pirelli.
So who's going to win the title? The driver with the faster car. Simple.
@Interstellar Protectorate Nope - just pissed off with it.
@T B I get the that it's a Constructors' championship, but don't call it a drivers's championship.
@Interstellar Protectorate But it facilitates the fastest car on the grid.
@@delusion2987 Absolutely. There have been years when the difference between cars is minimal and that's great. And this year, it's flip-flopped from Mercedes to red Bull and back to Mercedes. But the run in looks like Mercedes has the speed, so I'd be betting on Hamilton to clinch the title.
I should just add: of course, there are bad drivers, good drivers and great drivers. It just seems a pity, at least to me, that it's more about the car than the drivers. This year, it's flip-flopped: first Mercedes, then Red Bull and back to Mercedes. So, for the last 2 races, it's Mercedes who have the speed advantage. Therefore, I think Hamilton will clinch the title, because he'll be driving the faster car at the business end of the season. Of course, incidents can happen and that could derail both Hamilton and/or Verstappen. But for that, Hamilton will win an 8th title because he has the faster car again.
What excites me is the prospect of the new "formula" from next year. I truly hope that the gap between the constructors is reduced so that we can truly have a drivers' championship.
Alright after watching 50 videos I subscribed… it’s hard to miss out on what coming. Thanks for a great channel!! #44 #stillwerise
RedBull have also no luck with the weather. In the last 2 races and qualifying it was always very cold. The RedBull needs a warm track, which is where Mercedes loses ground.
What a fantastic title race, best in years. Unless RB get some pace from somewhere Lewis will win I think (though I hope max does)
Yes. Only fast tracks left..