Do Book of Mormon pronouns support its authenticity?
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- In Biblical Hebrew, possessive pronouns are usually attached to their respective nouns. When translated into English, those pronouns can thus sometimes be repeated (this is most noticeable in lists of nouns). In this episode, David shows where we see similar grammatical happenings throughout the Book of Mormon. These instances support the claim that the Book of Mormon is of an ancient Hebrew literary tradition.
FOOTNOTES (Sorry that links aren't clickable. That feature of CZcams will be unlocked soon. Copy/paste!)
- “Hebraisms in the Book of Mormon: A Preliminary Survey,” by John Tvedtnes (BYU Studies): tinyurl.com/3jzwbmh9
- “Possessive Pronouns” in “Preserved in Translation: Hebrew and Other Ancient Literary Forms in the Book of Mormon,” by Donal W. Parry (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/4x7xxvzj
- See also “The Hebrew Background of the Book of Mormon,” by John Tvedtnes in “Rediscovering the Book of Mormon,” edited by John L. Sorenson & Melvin J. Thorne (chapter 8). Partially available online here: tinyurl.com/m9knzkyv
- “Possessive Pronouns in Hebrew Grammar,” via TalkPal: tinyurl.com/nheyjnnr
Notes:
- I wasn’t able to find any great examples of this structure in English that were not connected to the Hebrew tradition. That said, I would imagine that it’s possible for it to show up sometimes. This is one of the reasons why I say at the end of the video that viewers get to make a choice concerning the value of this insight. Personally, I think that the repeated use of this structure in the Book of Mormon (on top of the many other examples of Hebrew influence) argues against coincidence or happenstance.
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Maybe someone could calculate how long it would've taken for Joseph Smith to fraudulenty pepper the Book of Mormon with linguistic archaisms suggesting Hebrew and then, when he finished that little task, to go through the BOM once more and alter certain uses of language to artificially make it look like each book had a different author (there's an interesting video on YT supporting different authorship of each book). I suspect that to do such things fraudulently would've taken up most of the days of Joseph Smith's life. I don't think he possessed that level of knowledge. Isaiah 29:12 says that "and the book is delivered to him that is not learned." I love your videos and find them a great help on my long journey of 7 years investigating the LDS Church. I'm not LDS just yet but it's getting closer.
He translated in 60 days
@@danielcamino3759 Thanks I didn't know that the translation was done in 60 days. In which case there was no time for any "tinkering" and so the BOM could only have been received as intended in that timescale.
Charles Dickens wrote A Christmas Carol in 42 days proving it's possible to write a piece of fiction like the Book of Mormon in a short time
@@richarner3856what a terrible comparison 😂
@@richarner3856better comparison would be Lord of the Rings in 60 days writing. 😅
I'm super glad you are still doing these videos. I recommend them all the time. They've also played a big part in strengthening and reinvigorating my faith.
Huh, I never really thought about that.
I remember writing a paper trying to figure out if the rules for the archaic second person pronouns are followed in the same way within each part of the BOM. The assumption being that if different parts of the BOM abide by different understandings of the rules for archaic pronouns then this probably would indicate multiple authors ✍️
You know. I wumbo. You wumbo. He/ She/ We...wumbo?
You literally made me LOL. Nice one.
The wumbo of him
You know, wumbology. It's first grade stuff.
Wumba? The study of wumbology!?
Only the smart ones got this. But only seasons 1-3. The rest are trash.
I am your 1000th subscriber!! Let's get it over 100k!!!! 😊
The same can apply to the title. It's Mormon's abridgment, (or technically, Mormon's book), but we call it "The Book of Mormon." So cool!
Linguistics!! Right up my alley :D
This soundtrack is beautiful, what's its name?
The evidence continues to add up, compounding to a level of believability that becomes difficult to deny.
Way to go Dave! Congratulations on the expansion! - Cousin Andy
What do you say to people that say you guys are witches for Christ ?
Because it is what it says it is
What does it say it is?
@redfightblue read it, sir
@@brucebooth4489 I've read it many times. I was hoping you would say it's a testament of Christ. I believe it is. What I don't believe is that it has anything to do with the New World or America. Quite the conundrum.
@redfightblue in your opinion, where does it take place?
@@brucebooth4489 The entire BOM is an Ethiopian manuscript that takes place around Ethiopia and was written by Ethiopian Jews from their perspective.
The Land South is Africa. The Land North is Israel. The Narrow Neck of Land is the Isthmus of Suez. The Northward flowing river is the Nile. Zarahemla is in the Sahara (Zahara) North of Ethiopia but South of Egypt.
I can go on if you'd like. I can show you how Lehi was commanded to migrate to Ethiopia in the Tree of Life Vision. Ethiopia is the garden of Eden according to Genesis 2:13. The river in the vision is the Nile.
I can show you in detail why the 3 day journey from the Red Sea to the river is onto the Nile River. Carsten Niebuhr confirmed this from Aug 28th to 30th 1762 and placed it on his new maps.
I can show you exactly where Lehi camped when he had the vision. His "altar of stones" is still there in ruins.
I can show you exactly where the migration in Helaman 3 is and why it is critical that they deny the location is a "Desolation" in verse 6.
I can show you where the Jaredites started and where they finished.
I can give you a name for the "prophet of old" that was "cast out" of Jerusalem in 1 Nephi 1:20. The BOM speaks of him by name. Lehi is commanded to follow in his footsteps and make the same journey he made which is why Nephi mentions it.
I can show you a non-biblical source that mentions Lehi and the same geography that is detailed in Alma 22:32.
Let me know if this interests you.
How would JS have known to construct these sentences is such a way, in these details ????? ......UNLESS..... 🤔.....
.... Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God!
… how would ancient native Americans have known to construct sentences in such a way, in these details ????? ……UNLESS…… 😂…..
... He was the Incarnated Jesus?
@@eveadame1059 🕊️ GREAT POINT! Matthew 11:14 Jesus said of John the Baptist...And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
So it makes sense that JS could be an Incarnation of Jesus.
🤔 JS ... J-esus S-avior
Um no. There is only one Savior. JS was a Prophet of God and yet a man prone to human flaws and weaknesses just like you and I.
@@eveadame1059 You do realize that's not a Mormon belief, right?
The Hebraisms (Hebraicisms?) in the BoM are interesting, but I think a far simpler explanation could be that Joseph didn't know what they were, but was just imitating the style of the Bible. In other words, he might not have known that in Hebrew, one says "my x and my y and my z," but knew that that sounded more "Biblical" than "my x, y, and z."
.... But he was nothing but a young stupid, unlearned kid, right? (sarcasm)
I want to stress that "Sam-I-Am" is an authentic Hebraism, making Dr. Seuss and "Green Eggs and Ham" Old Testament Jewish.
Should we really say goodbye to Kevin yet? Looks like he needs help.
Kevin is beyond help.
Great channel and insights. Modern English is a very gender-neutral language. Other European languages are not! You can use Spanish possessive adjectives to demonstrate this (singular his = su/plural his = sus) but more so with French (masc./fem./plur.) or German (add neuter + cases!)
🏴 English: I am going camping with my mom, dad, brothers, uncle, aunt, and cousins.
🇫🇷 Français: Je vais faire du camping avec MON père, MA mère, MES frères, MON oncle, MA tante, et MES cousins.
Grammar in the original language obviously matters. Joseph translated by the power of God, not like a modern translator translates a French novel to make it sound really good in English for an English reader. There would be a lot of adaptation. Sometimes you read hymn lyrics that will say "adapted" from the original French or Dutch or whatever. The book of Mormon is not "adapted". Only the Book of Mormon Stories for children are, and to an extent, translations of the English Book of Mormon into modern languages. They were translated by people who, I hope, also prayed for the spirit of revelation and received it. Big responsibility when you think of it!
Y’all should do an episode on Lilith!! A couple people on my mission asked me about her and if she was really Adam’s first wife and I couldn’t find much about where that tale came from!
I think Lilith is a Kabbalah tradition… could be wrong though.
Though I did recently look up the Jerusalem Targum (for a completely unrelated reason) and discovered that in Genesis 14:18 of the copy I found, it clearly names Shem as Malchi Zadek (Melchizedek), which I’d heard was part of Jewish (and LDS) lore but I didn’t know it was ever included in scripture and not just midrash or similar! 😂
Nice. Very informative. Thank you. 🙏
I thought this was going to lead into "why use many words when few words do trick?" 😁
But doesn't the book of Mormon say it was written in reformed Egyptian language, not Hebrew?
@Joygk2uh
Reformed Egyptian was the written script that they wrote their language in, not the language itself. Similar to how English uses the Latin script for writing, but the language itself is not Latin. English can be written in any script and still be spoken English. Also the ancient Egyptian and ancient Hebrew spoken languages were related, both being from the Afro-Asiatic language family. Additionally, as part of borrowing the Egyptian script (likely demotic and hieratic), the Hebrew spoken language that Lehi's party used may have also contained some loanwords from Egyptian.
It was written in the language of the Egyptians and in the knowledge of the Jews.
Which morphed into Elizabethan Englishl@@adamhyrumLDS
@@richarner3856 Hello, yes, Joseph used his own knowledge to translate.
🤔 Simply put... The Bible is Translated from Aramiac Egyptian Hebrew and Greek. The Book Of Mormon is Translated from Reformed Egyptian
Thank you Brother. This is so insightful. ❤ more videos
Another great Hebrewism.
Thank you
I don't care about the style of writing. I care about the wars. Most of thr content of the Book of Mormon is about wars. 60 days would not be enough to make a story detailed about wars. Most especially if you include in the story about how God delivers His people when they are humble and repented of their sins through their faith in Jesus Christ.
The original is authentic.
So cool.
Great video. 🎉
Okay. So genuine question: is it a hard translation or not? It feels like one minute horses and steel and elephants are just rough translations so that we get the idea, or because there isn't an English word for what was written, but then the next minute it's like there's all these hidden literary devices that there's no way Joseph could have known. See what I'm saying? It literally can't be both....
And for real, correct me if I'm wrong, but like, isn't it written in the style of the king James Bible because that's the type of language that felt religious at the time? That's not how Joseph and others spoke, so if the whole point is to make the book sound like the King James Bible, why are we surprised that it written to sound like the King James Bible?
Maybe it is both? Same for translating any other language: sometimes steel means steel, and horses mean horses, but in cases like "baptism," the exact word may have not been in there, but as far as describing an ordinance where someone is submerged in water to represent rebirth, the word "baptism" is the best word for translation to the English language. The small linguistics that carry over just show that it's a true record that preserves the style of ancient writing.
I guess it sounds like the KJV is because that's what early American's bibles were used to at the time. If a record like the BoM was translated today, I could see it being based off the NKJV or the NIV to make it easier to understand.
Honestly, the whole translation process is a bit of mystery. All Joseph could say was that he translated it through the power of God.
I don't believe the Book of Mormon was strictly a hard translation. It was certainly translated in a way the common Bible reader could understand and associate with. That being said, to be able to pick up on that nuance of Hebrew language and make distinction on when to use it and not to use it is rather remarkable for someone that had little education. It is one thing to recognize biblical language is being spoken and another to be able to precisely replicate it appropriately. I have read the Bible several times and had no idea about the pronouns structure actually mattering to a Hebrew speaker. If I tried to write a simple biblical sounding verse like "Thus sayeth the Lord of Hosts which keepeth His promises to His beloved children." I'm certain it would never come close to passing an authenticity test whether it be historically, theologically, linguistically, and anthropologically. Now combine that with every verse in the Book of Mormon and how long it has stood speculation from every type of historian and linguist in the Book, and you have nothing short of a miracle that Joseph was able to pull it off.
@@aliceduren6542I don't know.. I guess for me the fact that there's horses and elephants and steel and all these things that literally could not have been in the Book of Mormon outweighs the fact that the Book of Mormon sounds like the King James version of the Bible. Maybe it is super impressive that it has these writing styles that seemingly shouldn't be there. But it's like this: it doesn't matter to me at all how well it's written, because there's so many things in there that factually *cannot* be in there. I mean if the Book of Mormon mentioned an airplane that nephi built to come to the Americas, none of us would believe that for a second. But the moment he builds a boat that would have been impossible for him to build at the time because the technology and the materials used simply did not exist we all turned a blind eye. I really don't see a difference.
Also, keep in mind that it wasn't written in Hebrew. It was apparently written in Reformed Egyptian, a language that does not exist.
@@BuggMann91 I would opine that I think you're putting too much stock in some of these alleged anachronisms. An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and over time, actual evidence has come to light that has debunked many of the alleged anachronisms (see link below). So I wouldn't go so far as to say that these things "factually cannot be there." For example, you mention horses. Recent research is revealing that horses very likely existed in the americas during Book of Mormon times (see the other link below). Happy to chat one on one if you want to reach out on Instagram or Facebook!
Horses:
czcams.com/video/FLdm0IpsCJQ/video.html
Anachronisms: czcams.com/video/kGSEBwZMpsA/video.htmlsi=7-HJhQFQKR2j4Sq8
@@BuggMann91 But horses, elephants, and steel were factually in the Americas anciently. This is well referenced and a fairly quick search on ye ole internet will render results from multiple universities, archaeologists, et cetera, proving this to be true.
So amazing!
Kevin does make great chili 😅
Sweet!
The background music is distracting
It's almost like Joseph read the Bible a lot and copied patterns he saw there
So we see the same language structures as we see in the KJV Bible, which Smith owned and studied, in the Book of Mormon?
Hmmm, I wonder where he'd get that from...what source for those language patterns was immediately available and present in his life, by his own admission?
This is actually evidence of making it up.
Adieu
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Repent and believe
Fear GOD and believe
The Hebraisms (Hebraicisms?) in the BoM are interesting, but I think a far simpler explanation could be that Joseph didn't know what they were, but was just imitating the style of the Bible. In other words, he might not have known that in Hebrew, one says "my x and my y and my z," but knew that that sounded more "Biblical" than "my x, y, and z."