Using the good ol' rock chucker with forster dies. Seeing similar numbers. Curious to see what the numbers would be like with that beautiful press, but debating on setting up an AMP press for seating... always stuck with these single stage presses to be able to feel each operation, but the old hands are no comparison to a unit like the AMP.
Great instructional video Gavin ! Shoulder bump , seating depth & runout were well demonstrated and explained . After more than 50yrs of reloading experience I found that rotating the cartridge 2or3 times , as I seat the projectile , gives me better runout values with standard brass . Thanks for the great video ! Cheers man
That is usually due to sizing inconsistencies concerning shoulder setback. If you're full length sizing to set the headspace of .002" and using a comparator to check cases shows inconsistencies between cases, you no doubt need to anneal the brass so they all spring back the same when taken out of the die. At least that has been my experience. I'm not the "ultimate" reloader though so take it for what its worth. LOL
Pretty much any die once set and not disturbed will always size cases the same amount. As I said in a previous post differences in alloy hardness among cases cause differences in springback . This spring effect also can happen over time after sizing. Miniscule, yes, but youll get more consistent shoulder setback and neck tension if you cases every 2 or 3 firings. Viscosity of case lube is also a factor. @@raywhitehead730
@@raywhitehead730 would have thought so but not necessarily. As luck would have it just last week I was loading with some Wilson dies and about 2/3 of the way through suddenly the bullets started being seated about 10 thou longer. That's without me making any adjustment. Then after about five rounds of long seating, it went back to right where it started
My set up is no where near so fancy ... RCBS Rock Crusher and RCBS seating dies and a washer... I put a washer between the die and the shell holder to keep it from doing the tapper crimp and cam over on the washer to take all the slack out of the press... by my measurement it keeps the seating withing .001"
Bet your mostly really good. But there are nuts out there, like me, who are crazy about precision and accuracy. It never ends for people like me. I also own a rock crusher. That's how it began.. l
Back in the olden days of shooting bug holes beyond 200 reloading the .223 rem cartridge for the Remington 700 Varmint Laminated Fluted: I used the Lee Precision Collet type crimp dies with excellent precision until throat erosion within one thousand rounds became the villain. Turning the barrel back and hand reaming had cost approximately one hundred dollars then. The rifle shot but I noticed the same burning signature on the case neck. Determined, I selected new brass and precision dies and later ( 1000 Rds) was ready for a Schillen Match Grade Select 7 taper rifle barrell with a tight neck chamber. Life was better then. 😊
I only load hunting/battle bullets and I use the lee factory crimp dies still. I truely believe they make a big difference in run out plus also peace of mind of having a crimped round - I do shoot bug holes with my 243 Tikka and 6 ARC out to 200 yds with this ammo. ELDX 90s and ELDX 103s
100% That cat can shoot a rifle !! We keep seeing guys go out to check accuracy with multiple types of ammo !! Great idea, But NOT IN a 30 mph ever changing wind, from a wobbly table using a led sled, All by a guy who can’t hit crap on a great day ??? Gavin on the other hand has it going on with his custom rifle builds and Ray is a great shot !!
It is also important to ensure the bullet seating depth allows for feeding into the chamber throughout the entire magazine. With my bergara hmr, I loaded to fit in the magazine. I shot a mule deer and reloaded in case I needed a follow-up shot. The very end of the bullet tip of the second round was stuck under the feed ramp. Luckily, I didn't need the follow-up round. Long story short, feeding length can be less than magazine length.
Being new and on a minimal budget.. 1 - I seat a batch to +0.05" (5 thou too high) and in reality they will distribute between as close as +0.02" up to +0.06" 2 - Sort them closest say +0.02" to furthest say +0.06" 3 - Turn the die in a small amount to reseat all and the +0.02" bumps to the exact COL and all others come in 0.02" 4 - Repeat 2 & 3 until eventually all rounds are at the target COL. I'm new to this so there's probably better methods but it saves me from seating too deep and having to pull and reseat with a cheaper press and it allows me an exact seating depth +/- 0.005", less than 1 thou play over all.
Very informative, Gavin! Thank you. What awesome products you use. Pair that with your meticulous gunsmithing and it is no wonder why you get such fantastic results.
Using the ol' rock chucker with Forster dies. Seeing similar numbers- very consistent. Curious to see what the numbers would be like with that beautiful press, but debating on setting up an AMP press for seating... always stuck with these single stage presses to be able to feel each operation, but the old hands are no comparison to a unit like the AMP.
6:00 Chambering a dummy round will usually find "jam". The jacket is softer than you think and the transition to the lands is more gradual than you think. The exceptions to this is if the neck is expanded enough for the bullet to freely fall in and out of the case. In this case, you are finding "touch"
Good video with some good tips for precision reloading. You mentioned the "donut" and told us what it is. Unless I missed it, you didn't really have a solution. I'm experiencing donut's with my Lapua 223 brass. I don't really want to replace it. My best load uses a square base bullet. My rifle does not have much freebore, so I have to push past the donut. I can do that but don't like doing it. Is there a solution that's reasonable and inexpensive. I would rather not get into neck trimming if I can avoid it. Perhaps others will be interested in this as well.
K&M makes a carbide pilot for their neck turning tool that will cut the donut out. Seating the bullet in the donut results in only the donut gripping the bullet. If you are shooting flat base bullets for precision, you should really consider turning the necks. A skim turn (just the high spots) takes about 30 seconds per piece and you only do it once. Cutting the donut out is a little quicker.
@@stevekiemele995 Thanks Steve. I took a look at the carbide cutting pilot. Looks like that's worth a try. Thinking about though it would have to be used as part of my pre-sizing routine. Otherwise it would affect neck tension.
@@dmalcolm24 you will need to size the case, then expand the neck with the K&M mandrel, then cut the donut out and/or turn the neck, finally resize the neck to the desired interference. Only needed once or when a donut develops. If you turn a little bit into the shoulder, it reduces development of donuts.
Gavin, this is helpful, but I wonder if you could do a video of what to do if (a) your seating is NOT consistent, i.e. how to diagnose causes and apply fixes; and (2) advise if this level of consistency is achievable without buying the top-of-the-line gear that you have. Could you achieve the same level of consistency using, e.g. a Wilson inline die and a K&M Arbor press? Lastly, I'm guessing consistency depends on identical cases, in term of OAL and shoulder bump?
If you are satisfied with the ammo quality you currently produce you likely won't see much if any improvements on target by buying the latest & supposedly greatest new tools . Much of my tooling is 40 plus years old and my rifles are of the hunting/ sporter weight barrels , they all shoot 1/2 -3/4 " groups @ 100yds . When starting out in reloading get the best gear you can afford , learn how to use it properly, set it up well & inspect your final product . You will be amazed by your ammo vs factory loads . Enjoy reloading it's a satisfying lifelong hobby !! Cheers
Yes. A lot of us are waiting for this. I am in the process of accurinzing my friend’s Mossberg Patriot. I am sure a lot of people are waiting for this. Hopefully you keep the original barrel and work on everything else. Thank you
I’ve found that I have to reset my die (I use an in-line seating die) if I change lots of bullets. I changed lots of Berger 6.5 Hybrid Target bullets without adjusting the die and the bullets consistently seated 0.006” deeper CBTO.
If you don’t neck turn some of your runout may be a difference in neck thickness. You can set your indicator to check the consistency of the necks before you fill your cases with powder and seat your bullets. Just something to look at
Are seating dies universal? Can I use a 308 win seating die for another 30 cal like 300 black out? Thanks for all the time yall have put into the videos for the community!
Kind of a weak video, essentially my take away was SAC gives good results. But you'll spend $2k to get there. A comparison of dies and seating depth repeatability would have been more valuable. Also, with high BC bullets (VLD/ELD/etc) I have found the ability to change seating stems to be pretty useful. This was something missed in the video. Hornady has good options for this.
Great video is it bad for consistency to have the Press ever so slightly cam over with the seating die. I have never tried sitting it up the way you did. In my mind the slight cam over would make a more consistent stopping point.
Gavin can you please tell me how to install a Hornady micrometer seating stem in a Hornady seating die? The instructions aren't really much help. I think I am making it harder than it should be. Your help would be greatly appreciated ! Thanx.
Seating a bullet, for total cartridge length, where reliable accuracy and repeatability of same length is the goal: would best be done with a non-adjustable seating chamber. But, maybe you do want to change the length.
Respectfully, all the cal carts are able to say is that one caliper will give the same figure under identical conditions. The precision is unaltered by the calibration process. Given that all measurements mentioned in the video, and almost all made during precision reloading, are relative, not absolute, the cert adds nothing to the correctness of measurements made. They’re not a bad thing, of course - just not required in the context of reloading. On the flip side, high-quality measurement instruments - ones that offer high precision and reliable accuracy are essential. That describes every Mitutoyo I’ve ever encountered. Good choice. I’ve had good luck with Starrett as well.
Calibration, traceability, Repeatability are all interconnected. Calibration provides the Reference Pont And traceability to a known standard. When you buy a measuring device how do you know to what standard it was made and sold to you? Your state makes no sense. I have had to repeatedly correct technicians who believed statements about accuracy that simply aren't true. retired now. National testing Laboratory.
The reason you find this part of reloading more satisfying is, it's no longer individual parts. It is now a COMPLETE bullet and you can now Shoot it. HA HA Iam the same way. Have a good one and be safe.
![[Don't Try This] Pushing the 308 Win to 300 Win Mag (Bat Machine, Alpha Munitions)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uXkmcpk7Brc/mqdefault.jpg)
in short, use a rock solid press, good dies and quality components
Using the good ol' rock chucker with forster dies. Seeing similar numbers. Curious to see what the numbers would be like with that beautiful press, but debating on setting up an AMP press for seating... always stuck with these single stage presses to be able to feel each operation, but the old hands are no comparison to a unit like the AMP.
Great instructional video Gavin ! Shoulder bump , seating depth & runout were well demonstrated and explained . After more than 50yrs of reloading experience I found that rotating the cartridge 2or3 times , as I seat the projectile , gives me better runout values with standard brass . Thanks for the great video ! Cheers man
One of your best videos yet. Very important topics and very helpful.
Really wish you would have gotten into what to do if your seating depth is inconsistent. What steps do you take to figure out what's wrong and fix it
That is usually due to sizing inconsistencies concerning shoulder setback. If you're full length sizing to set the headspace of .002" and using a comparator to check cases shows inconsistencies between cases, you no doubt need to anneal the brass so they all spring back the same when taken out of the die. At least that has been my experience. I'm not the "ultimate" reloader though so take it for what its worth. LOL
Wouldn't an L E Wilson " chamber " die always be consistent every time.? It is not adjustable.
Pretty much any die once set and not disturbed will always size cases the same amount. As I said in a previous post differences in alloy hardness among cases cause differences in springback . This spring effect also can happen over time after sizing. Miniscule, yes, but youll get more consistent shoulder setback and neck tension if you cases every 2 or 3 firings. Viscosity of case lube is also a factor. @@raywhitehead730
@@raywhitehead730 would have thought so but not necessarily. As luck would have it just last week I was loading with some Wilson dies and about 2/3 of the way through suddenly the bullets started being seated about 10 thou longer. That's without me making any adjustment. Then after about five rounds of long seating, it went back to right where it started
@@ccfdmdWas it due to a compressed powder charge?
My set up is no where near so fancy ... RCBS Rock Crusher and RCBS seating dies and a washer... I put a washer between the die and the shell holder to keep it from doing the tapper crimp and cam over on the washer to take all the slack out of the press... by my measurement it keeps the seating withing .001"
Bet your mostly really good. But there are nuts out there, like me, who are crazy about
precision and accuracy. It never ends for people like me. I also own a rock crusher. That's how it began.. l
Back in the olden days of shooting bug holes beyond 200 reloading the .223 rem cartridge for the Remington 700 Varmint Laminated Fluted: I used the Lee Precision Collet type crimp dies with excellent precision until throat erosion within one thousand rounds became the villain. Turning the barrel back and hand reaming had cost approximately one hundred dollars then. The rifle shot but I noticed the same burning signature on the case neck. Determined, I selected new brass and precision dies and later ( 1000 Rds) was ready for a Schillen Match Grade Select 7 taper rifle barrell with a tight neck chamber. Life was better then. 😊
I only load hunting/battle bullets and I use the lee factory crimp dies still. I truely believe they make a big difference in run out plus also peace of mind of having a crimped round - I do shoot bug holes with my 243 Tikka and 6 ARC out to 200 yds with this ammo. ELDX 90s and ELDX 103s
Liked seeing you with Ray from XRing, hoping to see some collaborations with him. He's a great wealth of knowledge.
100% That cat can shoot a rifle !! We keep seeing guys go out to check accuracy with multiple types of ammo !! Great idea, But NOT IN a 30 mph ever changing wind, from a wobbly table using a led sled, All by a guy who can’t hit crap on a great day ??? Gavin on the other hand has it going on with his custom rifle builds and Ray is a great shot !!
Since you have it everything for the video i'd like to see the concentricity of "The" die and the SAC Infinity APS Die.
It is also important to ensure the bullet seating depth allows for feeding into the chamber throughout the entire magazine. With my bergara hmr, I loaded to fit in the magazine. I shot a mule deer and reloaded in case I needed a follow-up shot. The very end of the bullet tip of the second round was stuck under the feed ramp. Luckily, I didn't need the follow-up round. Long story short, feeding length can be less than magazine length.
You need to tune your magazine by bending/adjusting the feed lips.
@@rustynut1967 it was the feed ramp of the action that I ran into
Love these two videos. Well done.
I do the same, just not the run out, don't have the tool, I rely on the 180 method in hope it's straightening out any inconsistency.
Being new and on a minimal budget..
1 - I seat a batch to +0.05" (5 thou too high) and in reality they will distribute between as close as +0.02" up to +0.06"
2 - Sort them closest say +0.02" to furthest say +0.06"
3 - Turn the die in a small amount to reseat all and the +0.02" bumps to the exact COL and all others come in 0.02"
4 - Repeat 2 & 3 until eventually all rounds are at the target COL.
I'm new to this so there's probably better methods but it saves me from seating too deep and having to pull and reseat with a cheaper press and it allows me an exact seating depth +/- 0.005", less than 1 thou play over all.
You need to add a 0 after the decimal point to all the numbers you gave. 0.05" is 50 thou, not 5 thou.
Já perdi as esperanças de ver novamente o Mossberg Patriot.
I’ll stick with USA reloading components as much as possible. Good info video as usual
Very informative, Gavin! Thank you. What awesome products you use. Pair that with your meticulous gunsmithing and it is no wonder why you get such fantastic results.
Using the ol' rock chucker with Forster dies. Seeing similar numbers- very consistent. Curious to see what the numbers would be like with that beautiful press, but debating on setting up an AMP press for seating... always stuck with these single stage presses to be able to feel each operation, but the old hands are no comparison to a unit like the AMP.
6:00 Chambering a dummy round will usually find "jam". The jacket is softer than you think and the transition to the lands is more gradual than you think. The exceptions to this is if the neck is expanded enough for the bullet to freely fall in and out of the case. In this case, you are finding "touch"
Thanks for all you do!
Good video with some good tips for precision reloading. You mentioned the "donut" and told us what it is. Unless I missed it, you didn't really have a solution. I'm experiencing donut's with my Lapua 223 brass. I don't really want to replace it. My best load uses a square base bullet. My rifle does not have much freebore, so I have to push past the donut. I can do that but don't like doing it. Is there a solution that's reasonable and inexpensive. I would rather not get into neck trimming if I can avoid it.
Perhaps others will be interested in this as well.
K&M makes a carbide pilot for their neck turning tool that will cut the donut out. Seating the bullet in the donut results in only the donut gripping the bullet. If you are shooting flat base bullets for precision, you should really consider turning the necks. A skim turn (just the high spots) takes about 30 seconds per piece and you only do it once. Cutting the donut out is a little quicker.
@@stevekiemele995
Thanks Steve. I took a look at the carbide cutting pilot. Looks like that's worth a try. Thinking about though it would have to be used as part of my pre-sizing routine. Otherwise it would affect neck tension.
@@dmalcolm24 you will need to size the case, then expand the neck with the K&M mandrel, then cut the donut out and/or turn the neck, finally resize the neck to the desired interference. Only needed once or when a donut develops. If you turn a little bit into the shoulder, it reduces development of donuts.
wow that's amazing!
Gavin, this is helpful, but I wonder if you could do a video of what to do if (a) your seating is NOT consistent, i.e. how to diagnose causes and apply fixes; and (2) advise if this level of consistency is achievable without buying the top-of-the-line gear that you have. Could you achieve the same level of consistency using, e.g. a Wilson inline die and a K&M Arbor press? Lastly, I'm guessing consistency depends on identical cases, in term of OAL and shoulder bump?
love SAC equipment. I made 3D funnel extension for SAC. works great
That was very informative ! Thanks
If you watch these videos from UR you will be buying new tools every week.everytime something new
Move to Canada.. between shipping, customs, laws, and regulations and currency conversion you can cross 80% of it off your list 😔
If you are satisfied with the ammo quality you currently produce you likely won't see much if any improvements on target by buying the latest & supposedly greatest new tools . Much of my tooling is 40 plus years old and my rifles are of the hunting/ sporter weight barrels , they all shoot 1/2 -3/4 " groups @ 100yds . When starting out in reloading get the best gear you can afford , learn how to use it properly, set it up well & inspect your final product . You will be amazed by your ammo vs factory loads . Enjoy reloading it's a satisfying lifelong hobby !! Cheers
I've had the best luck with concintricity and seating depth with 1 thou neck tension and the Wilson arbor press seating die.
Get back to the Mossberg .308 15:36
Yes. A lot of us are waiting for this. I am in the process of accurinzing my friend’s Mossberg Patriot. I am sure a lot of people are waiting for this. Hopefully you keep the original barrel and work on everything else. Thank you
I’ve found that I have to reset my die (I use an in-line seating die) if I change lots of bullets. I changed lots of Berger 6.5 Hybrid Target bullets without adjusting the die and the bullets consistently seated 0.006” deeper CBTO.
My father taught me to rotate the case when going up with the bullet when seating , I know a little hard to do with short cases.
The nail on the head, CONSISTENCY
Neck interference is crucial to consistency in seating depths.
100%, and as soon as you can hear the crunch of powder, even if its not a compressed load - you can take out the comparator and 😮💨
Nice SAC infomercial. Except for the bullet runout. What did you mean by .75 on each side? Isn’t it only going to be on one side?
Irrelevant, anyway. Both FClass John and Erik Cortina have already thoroughly disproven runout as a contributor to poor accuracy.
If you don’t neck turn some of your runout may be a difference in neck thickness. You can set your indicator to check the consistency of the necks before you fill your cases with powder and seat your bullets. Just something to look at
Is your dasher load stable, repeatable?? Does it change with different environmentals ie temp, humidity, altitude??????????????
I would love to see the Pacific tool and gauge ‘uni-throatier’ on your channel. Like 300wm throated to 300prc.
Thank you!
Still waiting on the Mossberg rebuild....... It's been over a month
Wilson seating die?? But it is slow.
Solid video but I’d never jump a bullet. Walt Berger advised me on that years ago. It’s a benchrest thing I guess.
No choice on a factory gun in many cases. I have a Tikka shooting very well and it's jumping a long way!
About 1,000,000 of us jump our bullets. .030-.070” and get some serious accuracy and no chasing the lands.
@@dougearl742 you won’t ever see a benchrest shooter jumping bullets.
Are seating dies universal? Can I use a 308 win seating die for another 30 cal like 300 black out? Thanks for all the time yall have put into the videos for the community!
Kind of a weak video, essentially my take away was SAC gives good results. But you'll spend $2k to get there. A comparison of dies and seating depth repeatability would have been more valuable.
Also, with high BC bullets (VLD/ELD/etc) I have found the ability to change seating stems to be pretty useful. This was something missed in the video. Hornady has good options for this.
Great video is it bad for consistency to have the Press ever so slightly cam over with the seating die. I have never tried sitting it up the way you did. In my mind the slight cam over would make a more consistent stopping point.
Gavin can you please tell me how to install a Hornady micrometer seating stem in a Hornady seating die? The instructions aren't really much help. I think I am making it harder than it should be. Your help would be greatly appreciated ! Thanx.
Seating a bullet, for total cartridge length, where reliable accuracy and repeatability of same length is the goal: would best be done with a non-adjustable seating chamber. But, maybe you do want to change the length.
Bullet key chain mr.
My Mitutoyo calipers are " certified " by the lab. Buying , off the shelf, isn't good enough.
Respectfully, all the cal carts are able to say is that one caliper will give the same figure under identical conditions. The precision is unaltered by the calibration process. Given that all measurements mentioned in the video, and almost all made during precision reloading, are relative, not absolute, the cert adds nothing to the correctness of measurements made. They’re not a bad thing, of course - just not required in the context of reloading.
On the flip side, high-quality measurement instruments - ones that offer high precision and reliable accuracy are essential. That describes every Mitutoyo I’ve ever encountered. Good choice. I’ve had good luck with Starrett as well.
Calibration, traceability, Repeatability are all interconnected. Calibration provides the Reference Pont And traceability to a known standard. When you buy a measuring device how do you know to what standard it was made and sold to you? Your state makes no sense. I have had to repeatedly correct technicians who believed statements about accuracy that simply aren't true. retired now. National testing Laboratory.
@@raywhitehead730 100% concur. Critical measurements made with uncalibrated equipment simply work against the objective of accuracy and precision.
Old benchrest guy here. Never jump a bullet if your throat is perfect as it should be.
do other dies work with the SAC press?
Still waiting on the accurizing the AR 15 video
Is there something you could suggest for some of us po-folk?
😊
The reason you find this part of reloading more satisfying is, it's no longer individual parts. It is now a COMPLETE bullet and you can now Shoot it. HA HA Iam the same way. Have a good one and be safe.
when first have a good barrel
**Consistent bullets** and a good seating die == consistent seating. It's not that hard.
👍👍😁
Someone knows RAD (reloading all day) methodologies... not so sacrilegious anymore huh?
“Tha”, is it not “ThE”.
Just say no to clickbait arrows!
Using Burgers to seat with the best overall sameness is cheating! :(
Im glad i dont watch his garbage anymore
Really wish you would not have used the term fung shway in one of the last real man hobby videos. Please promise you won't do that again.
Don't let the fung shway get in the way 😆
For a guy talking about "real man" stuff, you sure whine like a boy.
@@Ooogs-h1i😂