High-quality Voron kits and closed-loop steppers from LDO!
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- If you're at ERRF, swing by the LDO booth - they're doing giveaways on both days!
Thanks again to LDO for sponsoring this video - check them out at ldomotors.com and find their resellers for the Voron kits at
docs.ldomotors.com/voron/LDO_...
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I have been waiting so many years for the closed loop steppers to become the standard, just maybe they will in the next few years. It's the best way to go. Thank you, Thomas, for sharing with us.
Yeah and then we can deal with the massive wave of newbies that never learned how to tram their bed let alone tune closed loop steppers
Nice to see a reputed manufacturer like LDO picking up positron. I will be buying one as soon as it's available..
If you're at ERRF, swing by the LDO booth - they're doing giveaways on both days!
SO EXCITED for closed loop steppers! I have added closed loop to some before, but never used an off the shelf solution! Was great seeing them at the LDO Booth and finally meeting Jason! Great meeting you as well Tom! Keep it up!
I can't wait for closed looped steppers becoming a standard in 3D printers.
For the X,Y, or Z I think it’s cool, but not necessary. For the Extruder motor I think it’s huge.
I've used bigtree tech's closed loop steppers. The problem is they can create a crazy resonance because it's constantly oscillating between two states. You'd need to add some randomness into the oscillations to ensure there can't be a resonance.
The smarts of LDO’s solution is putting the feedback loop in the main board not on the stepper. That allows the main board to make smarter decisions.
Often, if you encounter a situation where a motor is missing steps, then a problem has already happened, and correcting the motor position won't make it right. The nozzle isn't supposed to be banging against anything, and if the extruder is missing steps, then you've either got a clog or some bent filament, and more torque won't help.
Yeah and then the subreddits will be full of people who can't tune their steppers OR tram the bed
Tom has been in close loop mode from day one. Most accurate DIY pro.
biqu also has an S42C closed loop stepper motor.
Got excited when you mentioned that LDO also supports the Positron
I know. I will pre-order right now.
They already have a preorder?! OMG
the upside-down compact positron 3d printer now finally having a kit!!
Thank you for this Tom. I was inspired by you to build a Voron. I've decided on the trident. I'll be looking for LDO kits next month.
Ooooh a kit for the Positron, that printer has been on my watchlist ever snce Kralyn3d dropped the video on it. MAN I can't wait :D
Excited to see the Recreator kit when it becomes available!! ♻️♻️♻️🤘♻️♻️♻️
Oh, cool to see Jason who has been really active in the Voron Discord
Hey! I really appreciate the actual captions rather than auto-generated ones but there were a few points where they became really out of sync (and with significantly different wording than what I could hear). At one point it skipped through 5 or 6 lines in like half a second. I know you're doing your best to get the captions spot on and the effort is appreciated, so please take this as it is meant :) Loving seeing these insights to these events.
Great overview of all that LDO does for the community. Great to see they sponsored your trip and that Jason is getting the coverage he deserves!
There is the CANbus interface missing. Controlling these motors by one or two CAN messages would remove a lot of wiring.
That would be pretty cool. I bet this will be more feasible once the chip shortage is resolved.
Can't wait for position!
Those "semi closed loop" steppers with the encoder and "brain" on the back of the stepper motor that are fed a pulse/direction signal and self correct on the fly seem like a better solution than a true closed loop stepper for 3d printers.
Why task the printers mainboard with all that extra processing?
All it needs to know is that the motor will do as its told
ldo is working on positron v3 kit??? shut up and take my money!
I was thinking the EXACT same XD
Interesting idea with the closed-loop stepper. In industry, we tend to use a servomotor (closed-loop alternative to open-loop steppers). A closed-loop stepper sounds like a stepper with a backup plan. Very curious.
The Trinamic Stallguard detection is a less reliable means of detecting layer shifts from collisions in part because the back EMF changes with motor temperature. It's possible to mitigate this by measuring the motor temperature and adjusting the sensitivity based on a look-up table, but this of course adds complexity.
Also, if you use sensorless homing, it's not as precise and there is often some deviation to which 256th of a step the sensorless homing will home so it might not jump back to the exact same position as prior to the disturbance that was detected.
@@MarinusMakesStuff right. Of course you could use StallGuard with normal (microswitch, etc.) homing.
I’m now heavily considering getting this LDO Voron kit and cancelling my Prusa XL order.
Do these close-loop motors actually need support from the printers mainboard? (2:55)
I would have expected them to do the closed loop magic internally and externally behaves like a conventiomal stepper motor, so beeing a drop-in replacement. Maybe with a way to signal the board if they got lost.
If the mainboard does the work, these motors would be nothing more then motors with integrated position encoders
Well, motors with integrated position encoders is exactly what they are. I see the benefit in this to have whatever drivers you want on the board, possibly high voltage ones. The Bigtreetech options (S42 and S57 series), also the MKS versions do what you say and handle all the trickery on just plain step/direction/enable lines. Then again there are those issues like not being able to report back that a problem was found, or limited to 24v to the motors, no interpolation like the TMCs and such, albeit at least in noise levels they're top notch, quieter than SpreadCycle mode, tho louder than StealthChop.
I had no idea this was going on. It's only 45 minutes from here.
D o the ldo close loop devices have outputs from the encoder available on pins ?
Very excited to hear about those two upcoming kits, as I've been wanting one for both machines more than pretty much any other recent community project. And, of course, LDO kits for a pretty stock Voron 0.1 and a heavily modded Voron 2.4 remain high on my list. Closed loop stepper motors sound really neat, too, but honestly not like an upgrade I'd make on a working printer.
1:36 Whaaaaat? I must investigate this.
These motors are nowhere to be found on their official website or on any of the resellers websites. Where can they be purchased?
Been there today, did not see them. Were they there only the first day?
Closed loop is the next logical step. It will just take time before RRF, Marlin and Klipper will fully support it I guess. And I'm expecting that there would be some necessary hardware changes as well for the cables and connectors?
It's possible that the control logic is already built into the motor, and that no software modification is needed. If not, I imagine the control logic could also be built into motor drivers instead.
Cool stuff Thomas, I didn’t know that ldo produced for prusa. I already was a big fan just from their voron kits but now I’m really a fan…. Hope to one day build one of their voron kits.
What firmware would currently already support closed loop motors?
Tom, did they say when they go on sale? Their website does not mention anything yet...
Cool! Now a hang printer v3 with closed loop stepper motors can match ease of homing feature on v4 with bldc motors!
Love these videos! Will you be doing a video at ProtoPasta's booth? I heard through the grapevine that they are actually using one of my models to show off their filaments! I'd love to see it!
Aww man, you were at ERRF? I would have loved to say hi or something! I wasn't looking so I probably walked right past you without noticing 😅
I've heard really good things about the LDO kit and that's the route I plan to take when I start building my voron next year
I'd like to see close loop servo motors become more common. This is a step in the right direction.
Or indeed, n steps in the right direction.
where to buy ? there is any cart on site of the link
it's a beautiful thing, thank God
please provide link with closed loop motors kit. thanks
Thomas - I'll try and say hi tomorrow. Sorry I missed you today
Doesn't bigtreetech already have a close loop stepper system?
I love your shirt ❤️
ive been using closed loop steppers and integrated servos on my printers for a couple years now and they are nice, tuning can be a pain since there is no documentation on it for the stepperonline brands ive been using only requiring 24v input and step/dir input from the board. the only way i could see these being better is if they can utilize klippers input shaping and such which isnt useful on closed loop servos/steppers only utilizing step/dir bc there is no communication between the board and the driver besides these two signals
Thomas could you please recommend the EU supplier of LDO kit Voron 2.4 r2?
Please Jason, we need closed loop stepper with canbus connectors, that would be pretty awesome
The Bigtreetech S42B V2.0 has that but I don't know how well and how far it's used. Their entire closed loop stepper lineup is extra simple to use but I would love to have the monitoring done by the controller board instead, and thus possibly attaining the biggest benefits of those steppers but with drivers like the high voltage TMC 5160.
@@Kalvinjj it doesn't have the encoder. You're confusing it with the mellow sht that does have an encoder but it's more expensive. I would love to see just the stepper with an encoder and a tmc integrated and all connected via canbus
@@deathcube2006 It does... It's literally the only way it can function to maintain a known rotational position. A TLE5012 magnetic rotational position encoder at the middle of the motherboard, on the bottom, reads a magnet's position glued to the shaft of the stepper.
It just doesn't report anything back to the printer's/CNC's motherboard as it just takes step/dir/en. signals but dunno what it does on canbus.
If you mean it doesn't have a linear position encoder to read the printer's head then yeah of course not, that's entirely different, but it does have a rotating encoder.
Very impressive products! I think LDO does need to work on their SEO a bit though, googling for LDO shows them somewhere at the end of page 1 for me, and "LDO 3D" results in the Voron kit documentation at result 3, but the homepage is nowhere to be found. I've got a few projects where I could use their products and I'm very happy with my Prusa stepper motors so I'll give them a try :)
I dont think closed loop is the best answer for lost steps but higher speeds and higher acc might be an excuse to upgrade
Man I am really sad I didn’t know about this errf it is only like an hour away from my house! Maybe next year
You can still visit tomorrow!
you have many drivers that eliminate the need for closed loop motors
It’s the LDO linear rails that have been an issue for me. I’ve had some delivered which bind. One which died at 3500hrs and one carriage which physically rocked on the rail. Im on my fourth trident now. Considering a branded linear rail like CPC in the future but they’re so expensive.
Forums are talking about 0.9 vs 1.8 Moon stepper motors are better than 0.9 or 1.8 Ldo motors.
LDO is kinda like the Anker of the hobby 3D printing community.
Where is the best place to look at the kits they sell? Ideally an EU retailer.
3D Jake has all the LDO Vorons, and I've only had great experiences with them.
I still find that E3D has better motors than what I have tried from LDO.
And closed loop steppers have (had) issues with salmon skin effect. Looking forward to see if LDO has resolved that??
@Thomas Sanladerer, this type of motors exist since a "long" time ago. Take a look at ClearPath made by Teknic (US proudly made and I'm not an american !!!). Not sure this comment stay long in this sponsored vid, but now you know if it wasn't the case.
At the moment, ClearPath motors only start at nema 23. Take a look at these motors that can do at lot of things .... (There's an impressive software to tune these motors)
I love my ldo kit everything is so nice and high quality glad I went with ldo. (Not paid this is my honest opinion)
So sad I bought a Ratrig kit rather than a voron. I was intimidated by the self sourcing and wish I had known about the voron kit from LDO
An LDO kit for Voron might have pushed me over the edge to do that instead of RatRig, but I'm 1,000% happy with my RatRig V-Core-3.1 which I just finished last month (which also comes with LDO motors). It is a beast of a printer. Zero regrets.
Honestly, I don't understand why people pretend that closed-loop stepper motors are so special. We already had such motors on our CNC machines 35 years ago. Or rather, there were no CNC machines at all where stepper motors were used WITHOUT corresponding encoders. That is nothing special. At least I could not see in the data sheets that this was anything different or new.
What is so particularly new here?
btt make cl for years
I use Ball screws and yhe JMC dc inverter AC servos. No need for stepper drivers. They’re ungodly fast and accurate. Surprised aonmany people still use these pile of crap off shelf kits. Build your own and build it better.
How do I order the bittle to fila.ent machine